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The Fall of Wintel and the Rise of Armdroid

hype7 writes "The Harvard Business Review is running a very interesting article on how this year's CES marked the end of the Wintel platform's dominance. Their argument is that tablets are going to disrupt the PC, and these tablets are predominantly going to be running on Google's Android powered by ARM processors — 'Armdroid.' Quoting: 'Both Microsoft and Intel have suffered from the same problem that most successful companies face when dealing with disruption. They cannot find a way to profitably invest in low-end offerings. Think about it from Microsoft's point of view: now that Windows 7 has been developed, to sell another copy, they don't have to do a single thing. Because of this, it becomes very hard for any executive to advocate the complete development of a low cost OS that will run on tablets: not only would it cost Microsoft a lot to develop, but it would result in cannibalization of its core product sales. Intel has the exact same issue. Why focus on Atom, or an even lower-end chip, when there is so much more margin to be made by focusing on its multi-core desktop processors?'"

42 of 431 comments (clear)

  1. A Few Logical Problems by eldavojohn · · Score: 4, Insightful
    About Microsoft's first foray into the tablet market the article says:

    Their tablet should have been about disrupting the PC market with something light, cheap and simple. Instead, Microsoft tried to make it do everything.

    Okay, so we establish that tablets have a subset of functionality as PCs. I agree with this, I don't do software development, word processing or gaming on a tablet. But then the article notes that tablets herald the end of PCs. So are we expecting the software makers to bridge that gap that prevents me from playing World of Warcraft, writing a book in Word or LibreOffice, coding in Radrails, etc? I just don't see that happening. I think there's a fundamental hardware issue with capacitive touch. I am not certain it will ever get to the point where I feel comfortable doing serious work or serious gaming using a glassy surface as my input device. Maybe I'm getting old but I just have never been impressed with even the latest cellphone displays and their response.

    I would speculate that most tablet users are first PC users at home and at the office. The tablet is a subset of the desktop computer and it's hard to reach all levels of functionality with only a tablet. So I would almost argue that tablets will bite into the PC market only in markets with people who just need a computer to surf the internet, play casual games and maybe e-mail. In my opinion, it's highly likely that Wintel and Armdroid will continue to coexist for many years with different functional targets.

    this year's CES marked the end of the Wintel platform's dominance

    There's potential but if you counted all the Wintel machines in use right now and all the Armdroid devices in use right now, I would bet Wintel would retain dominance in numbers. It's fun to get exited when it makes sense to you that this should happen but the reality is that Wintel still sits comfortably above a throne of untouchable marketshare.

    --
    My work here is dung.
    1. Re:A Few Logical Problems by Zouden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed. Here's my prediction: in 5 year's time, most people will still be using desktops/laptops running Windows on an Intel chip. The rise of tablets really isn't going to disrupt things as much as columnists like to claim. But "Status Quo to Remain Unchanged!" is not a very compelling headline.

      --
      "A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
    2. Re:A Few Logical Problems by mwvdlee · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Whether it'll be a traditional desktop or laptop running Windows on Intel, I am not certain. But we WILL be using a full-sized keyboard and mouse to control it.

      --
      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
    3. Re:A Few Logical Problems by oodaloop · · Score: 2

      There's at least one model of tablet coming out that has a dock to connect with a keyboard. So for home use, I could type on the physical keyboard of my choice, perhaps navigate with the optical mouse of my choice (and maybe connect a large monitor? awesome!), and do nearly everything I do on my home PC. There's very little I can do on my Ubuntu laptop (my current primary home PC) that I couldn't apparently do on a Honeycomb tablet. Give me an app to burn CDs and DVDs (is there one? I don't know), an app for P2P downloading, multi-tabbed full-html browsing with flash, and multi-tasking and I think I could switch to just having a tablet. Then when I go out, I would take my tablet with me.

      I think that mobile computing in general has a very bright future, though it may not cut into Wintel as much as Google would hope. More people will just have more than one device, is all.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    4. Re:A Few Logical Problems by Captain+Hook · · Score: 2

      I see it a bit differently, I see PC's becoming smaller, maybe losing the keyboard, mouse and display and acting more like small home servers (maybe something like Sheevaplus), left on permantently to act as download managers and act as file servers, perhaps used for home automation.

      Media PCs/Games Consoles interact with the home servers to provide living room entertainment, and the user interface too all of this will be something Tablet like, prehaps with bluetooth keyboard and mouse for more serious data entry but still using the tablet as the display/input computer.

      Obviously, the PC could disappear completely with the Media PC/Games Console taking over the server role and being left on permantently for downloading stuff.

      Having said that, I don't see all that happening in the next 5 years.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    5. Re:A Few Logical Problems by falsified · · Score: 2

      Tablets, in the style of the iPad or the recent Android models, just aren't useful for 8-10 hours of real work. I would say that almost anyone who has to work on a computer for their job needs to have more than one window open, too. It's hard to pull that off and maintain any level of productivity on a 7" or 10" screen.

      I'm thinking of getting one to bring to meetings and such as a replacement for my bulky laptop, since I can type notes faster than I can write them (plus being able to record what's going on is great), but that would only be to make my "real work", back in my office, at a desktop computer, easier. I don't see how manufacturers can get around that while still keeping a tablet look and feel.

      For home use? Sure, it's a great alternative for many people, mainly the e-mail, Facebook and Skype-only types.

      --
      HI, MY NAME IS ISAAC.
    6. Re:A Few Logical Problems by falsified · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No! This is completely untrue!

      Copy a few cells in your favorite spreadsheet program, then paste those cells into your favorite word processor, in a tablet. Format it with headers in a different font and color. Then, do that at a desktop computer with keyboard and mouse. Which was easier?

      I know that tablet technology is rapidly changing, but once you have a big enough screen to capably handle windowing, you've basically got a laptop without a keyboard, not a tablet. And who wants that for business use?

      --
      HI, MY NAME IS ISAAC.
    7. Re:A Few Logical Problems by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      If you had a speedy tablet capable of driving an external display simultaneously to the internal one then you could carry it around between desks and cars, not to mention using it when you're not near any infrastructure.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:A Few Logical Problems by rcs1000 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      ARM chips are improving enormously, and there's no doubt that the ARM9 instruction set is significantly more elegant than Intel.

      However, I'd be a little cautious about assuming that Intel/x86 will be threatened any time soon.

      I run Debian on a TI OMAP @ 800Mhz. It started as an experiment to see if I could transition my desktop to ARM. It ended as a VPN router sitting on my network (performing the extremely useful service of fooling certain US VOD sites as to my geographic location...).

      ARM chips are highly optimized for one particular feature set: extremely low-power mobile computing.
      Intel chips are highly optimized for another: Windows/Linux on the desktop.

      Almost all x86 has extremely sophisticated branch prediction to minimize calls to (slow) DRAM. ARM9 has pretty simple branch prediction. You will have far, far more cache misses on an ARM9 chip than on x86. So, to maintain performance for a given clock speed, you'll need to add on-die cache. Which starts getting pretty expensive. And the branch prediction on Intel is specifically geared around the way Windows (and to a lesser extent Linix) works. Unless Windows is completely re-written, or ARM ceases to be a low-cost chip, it's hard to see how ARM can offer equivilent performance at the same clock-speed as x86. For this reason (as well as the fact that ARM Windows will lack any kind of compatibility layer), I am pretty pessimistic about Windows on ARM - or indeed, ARM penetrating the desktop market.

      And I am equally pessimistic about Intel succesfully getting into phones and tablets. When running at low loads, ARM chips are extraordinarily efficient. Intel has made a big fuss about its HUGI ("Hurry Up and Get Idle") efforts. But, of course, this is incredibly misleading. Most of the time an ARM core is doing something... just not very much. Will consumers accept a phone or tablet with 50% less battery life (or worse) for an Intel Inside logo? I think not.

        Of course, ARM has another advantage (which is also, tangentially, a disadvantage). ARM does not make its own processors - it licenses its core designs to nVidia/Samsung/TI/Qualcomm/etc. This means that we can see an incredibly diversity of ARM-based products. Qualcomm can offer ARM cores with integrated 3G baseband. nVidia can add a couple of graphics processors, and call it Tegra 2. This means that ARM cores can be used in more applications, and more flexibly.

      But it also means that ARM cores will be at least one line-width generation behind Intel. Intel has a very efficient design and *internally* build structure, with the best process technology in the industry. Which means 32nm Intel chips battle 42nm ARM ones. It was this process disadvantage that did for AMD, and it means that ARM will struggle against Intel in desktop. It is tough to compete on cost when someone else has a 50% higher transistor density for the same cost.

      Wrapping up: ARM is fantastically well positioned for the fast growing tablet and smartphone markets; and Intel has a surprisingly defensible position in desktop/server chips.

      --
      --- My dad's political betting
    9. Re:A Few Logical Problems by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      Which makes it easy for me to switch people to linux.

      I get friends and relatives that ask about a new PC. I suggest I back up their PC and install Ubuntu for them to try it before they drop a few hundred on a new windows PC.

      over 70% end up happy with the Linux PC and stick with it for at least another 24 months. Most people do not need windows at home on their pc.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    10. Re:A Few Logical Problems by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2

      Okay, so we establish that tablets have a subset of functionality as PCs. I agree with this, I don't do software development, word processing or gaming on a tablet. But then the article notes that tablets herald the end of PCs. So are we expecting the software makers to bridge that gap that prevents me from playing World of Warcraft, writing a book in Word or LibreOffice, coding in Radrails, etc? I just don't see that happening. I think there's a fundamental hardware issue with capacitive touch. I am not certain it will ever get to the point where I feel comfortable doing serious work or serious gaming using a glassy surface as my input device. Maybe I'm getting old but I just have never been impressed with even the latest cellphone displays and their response.

      I don't expect tablets to be the end of PCs, but I think tablets will replace the PC as the primary computing device for your average user. Especially if average user does not need to do serious work. Where Apple differed than MS in tablets is in the approach. For MS, the tablet was just another PC with a touch screen. And for 10 years, that's how they designed and marketed it. Apple came from a different approach; the tablet was a device. To Apple, the tablet was an extension of the PC with focused more on content consumption than content creation. For your average user who still thinks the desktop is the filesystem, they need do much more content consumption than creation.

      The gap that you also speak of isn't just software. It's a fundamental UI problem. The smaller you make a device, the harder it becomes to comfortably interact with it. Unless we all start developing smaller fingers, we are starting to hit the limit of what UI can accomplish. Apple's answer was to embrace the touch screen. Since their device was more focused on consumption, they felt that with multi-touch gestures, they sidestepped the problem but did not solve it. In fact no one really has. But that does mean you can't really play WoW as-is on iPad, a game which requires you to have a keyboard and mouse.

      If we look at science fiction, we all remember Star Trek and how seamlessly the characters used their PADDs to write reports, read, work, and transfer data. What the show never showed was exactly how characters did so with such a tiny screen. Mainly because no one has really thought of a good system of input. It's still left to the imagination.

      I would speculate that most tablet users are first PC users at home and at the office. The tablet is a subset of the desktop computer and it's hard to reach all levels of functionality with only a tablet. So I would almost argue that tablets will bite into the PC market only in markets with people who just need a computer to surf the internet, play casual games and maybe e-mail. In my opinion, it's highly likely that Wintel and Armdroid will continue to coexist for many years with different functional targets.

      The markets that you speak of constitute the majority of computer users not the minority. They don't code. They don't write novels or do serious work. They just play with computers. We here on slashdot are the minority. At home, I know many who own iPads use it in addition to their computer. Sure they use their computer, but the iPad is much more convenient at some things. It's the same with any other device; it has a purpose. I wear different shoes depending if I'm going to work or if I'm running 5 miles.

      The other thing is that the iPad is being used because it's not a typical computer and some are using it in very creative ways. While consumers have embraced the iPad as a replacement or addition to their computing needs, businesses are starting to use it for the tablet functionality that ironically Bill Gates envisioned.

      I was running in a race recently and happened to be talking to the timing chip person on how they used iPads. For those of you that don't run, in many races these day, they track your time based

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    11. Re:A Few Logical Problems by Carewolf · · Score: 3, Funny

      If you had a speedy tablet capable of driving an external display simultaneously to the internal one then you could carry it around between desks and cars, not to mention using it when you're not near any infrastructure.

      And if I had a magic flying pony I could use that to commute to work, while picking up teenage girls.

    12. Re:A Few Logical Problems by Lotunggim+Ginsawat · · Score: 2

      Working with text documents and spreadsheets are now niche activities? Wow, what world did you live in?

    13. Re:A Few Logical Problems by somersault · · Score: 2

      So once you remove gaming and design, you are left with a "niche"? Hate to break it to you, but gaming and 2D design (not many professional 3D CAD apps run on Mac) are both niches. What you are left with is a whole world of Windows only business software. I'd like to see it all go cross platform too, but we're not there yet.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    14. Re:A Few Logical Problems by Missing.Matter · · Score: 2

      That's actually very easy to do with Windows 7 and a pen interface. Drag select with the pen, flick top right for copy, tap to switch to word, flick down right to paste, and then choose from any of the preset styles (or use your own).

    15. Re:A Few Logical Problems by Svartalf · · Score: 2

      Don't bet on the defensible position for Intel.

      You're comparing things to a Cortex-A8, based on your lead-up there. That's roughly like comparing an i5 to an Atom, really. Not the same beast. And the observed behavior doesn't match up with what the A9 or the A15 is going to perform like.

      Think of it as being roughly like a PIII at clock, about like the Atoms have been. As such, you're talking about a PIII-800MHz machine in performance with your claimed configuration. Unlike the Intel solutions (even Atom...) you're talking vast worlds of difference in power consumption. Your OMAP3 device will run for 10-ish hours on a 13.5 watt-hour battery doing firewall or server like tasks (Web serving from the flash for example...). The Atom or the PIII we're comparing it to won't last more than about 20 or so minutes on that battery- and perform similarly at clock.

      That's just the in-order superscalar CPU that is the A8.

      The A9's an out-of-order superscalar CPU and the A15's even more aggressive. Servers are going "green" and there's at least 2 OEMs that're looking at the low-to-mid end with the A9 or A15 in an SOC. These devices are more like an i3/i5 on their low-end of performance; with the same power profile that I pointed out with the A8.

      Intel's got a bit of a problem at this point...and they know it. So does AMD. They've got only the high-end of performance (as in bang for buck, that is... IBM's got the high-end in POWER right now...) to claim right now. Not a bad thing, but where things are going, they're going to have to re-think what they want to do at least somewhat or be facing a tougher problem with ARM in the market in about 5 years.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    16. Re:A Few Logical Problems by Gilmoure · · Score: 2

      I'm not allowed to watch 2 Birds 1 Segway at work.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    17. Re:A Few Logical Problems by somersault · · Score: 2

      I didn't think we were talking specifically about the home. I agree that most home users can get by without Windows. I do it myself. In fact I use Linux for a lot of my work too - though I am one of the programmers that the original comment you replied to mentioned. And in fact if nobody else used computers, most of us programmers would be out of a job too.

      I have to confess I didn't read the quote you were replying to otherwise your niche comment would have made more sense, but despite the fact that most people technically don't need a computer for their job, it certainly makes things more efficient and robust (if done correctly). The business world has been entirely changed by things like email, shared network storage and the web. Yes, a lot of things can of course still be done entirely without computers, but it would often be very inefficient and expensive in terms of manpower, storage space, paper, phone operators, etc and basically a lot of things that we take for granted would no longer be possible because employers wouldn't even be able to afford them. It would completely change the business landscape. We'd perhaps have more jobs, but a lot of them would be very dull. Computers allow for all kinds of interesting new jobs though.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    18. Re:A Few Logical Problems by Goaway · · Score: 2

      PCs used to be a niche product. They used to be for people who would do things like "copy a few cells in their favourite spreadsheet program". Most people never did that, or understood what meant.

      Then, computers started doing things that were useful to regular people. That's when they really took off, and soon everyone had one. Now, all those people are starting to move on to mobile devices and tablets that can do everything they care about.

      And that means the PC is going back to what it once was: A niche product for people who care about spreadsheets.

  2. The Year of the Linux Palmtop? by Compaqt · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe the much-awaited Linux surge isn't going to be in desktops but on mobile devices. Increasingly, people have become resigned to the fact that their portable computing devices aren't going to (and don't have to) look like the PC at work.

    Android and Meego (when it finally ships) are harbingers of the trend.

    --
    I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
    1. Re:The Year of the Linux Palmtop? by Organic_Info · · Score: 4, Informative

      I really hope so, but I'm loosing faith that the popular Linux distributions will actually break out from their server (and to a small extent desktops) stronghold.

      It's the OEM device manufacturers, if you look at the netbook/laptots debabcle, outside the rather significant Wintel strangulation, each OEM decided to roll their own or partner with some no name distribution for their initial Linux offerings which IMHO resulted in a rather poor consumer experience.

      This gave Wintel their opportunity to get in a take control. You can see it happening again with Android, the frequently talked about fracturing of the platform will be matched by the plethroa of App Stores which are going to spring up.

      Reviews of the Toshiba AC-100 all say the same thing great hardware (with some odd keyboard decisions) badly let down by the Android implementation and slef rolled App Store.

      Unless an ARM OEM device and Android (or a popular big Linux distribtion) presents a decent consumer experience this will just be another "Year of the Linux..." meme in the making.

      --
      "Things that you own end up owning you" - Tyler Durden (via Diogenes of Sinope).
    2. Re:The Year of the Linux Palmtop? by burnin1965 · · Score: 2

      The linux surge into markets beyond the server started maybe 5 or more years ago.

      For a great deal of desktop use linux is already fully capable of replacing Windows or OS/X but it wont happen. (For anyone whose knickers get bunched due to this statement and feel they need to vent their personal anecdotal rants about their linux desktop experience, don't waste your time, I'm not saying you have to use linux, Windows or OS/X on the desktop, use whatever you prefer, I prefer linux.)

      While the cost of Microsoft's and Apple's operating systems are outrageously high with gross margins likely over 90% consumers don't care because the rough and tumble competition between hardware manufacturers has provided enough of a reduction in hardware costs to hide the crazy price of the operating system that is wrapped up in the full retail price of a turn key system that most consumers buy. That being the case it is very easy to scare the masses away from alternatives even if they do have the potential to reduce the cost of a turn key system even further.

      The linux surge started in servers, moved to infrastructure hardware like routers and switches, quietly moved into everyone's living room in televisions, DVD players, satellite receivers, etc. and is now making an end run round the desktop in complimentary computing devices.

      It appears to me that the desktop will be the last market to be swallowed by the hyper competitive nature of open source and hybrid open/closed source offerings and linux. It will happen after the desktop has been completely surrounded by functional hardware and software using open source and linux. Then perhaps 80% of the FUD that scares people away from even considering a linux based desktop can be tossed aside with a similar WinTel proponent's tactic, "everything else is running open source and linux so it makes sense to run it on the desktop as well".

  3. If you don't canabalize your own business by pcause · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The first rule of technology is that "If you don't canabalize your own business, someone else will do it for you". This is the classic tech product/company dilemna and we have lots of examples of dominant #1's who ignored this rule and are gone. Digital? Wang? Visicorp? Borland?

    1. Re:If you don't canabalize your own business by vlm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The first rule of technology is that "If you don't canabalize your own business, someone else will do it for you". This is the classic tech product/company dilemna and we have lots of examples of dominant #1's who ignored this rule and are gone. Digital? Wang? Visicorp? Borland?

      How about IBM's mainframe dominance in the very early microcomputer era?

      The pity of it, was looking at something like DECs PDP-8 offerings, DECs multi kilodollar software kicked butt over microsoft ROM basic in a typical home PC. Microcomputers beat DEC on hardware, DEC utterly smashed microcomputers in software depth and quality, but DEC wanted like $3000 for a fortran compiler.

      I think one factor of the "wintel" vs "armdroid" not discussed is the typical cost of software is, once again, imploding. The fact that the hardware and underlying OS is nice, but, much like DEC PDP-8 vs the apple II, most people will switch because the software is cheaper (not because its better) Despite not personally finding angry birds to be very entertaining, I do understand that its a bit cheaper than civ 5. Doesn't matter how much they're different, because they both do the same thing, that being wasting time, so the cheaper one will win.

      Which is too bad, because I like the fancy stuff.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    2. Re:If you don't canabalize your own business by uffe_nordholm · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There is a book about this problem: "The innovators dilemma". (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Innovators-Dilemma-Technologies-Cause-Great/dp/0875845851/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295358384&sr=8-1).

      Shortening the entire book into one sentence, it says that when something new (tablets) comes along, the leaders in the old business (PCs) often have problems adapting to the new market.

    3. Re:If you don't canabalize your own business by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      I am sure that desktop Fortran would have (probably did) found itself useful just like the desktop spreadsheet did and for the same reasons.

      People wanted to take control of computing and get stuff done.

      A Fortran interpreter is not "rocket science" and it doesn't need a super computer or even a mini computer. Computation won't happen nearly as quickly but that might not be a problem if you can't get time on the time sharing system to begin with.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  4. Arguably, they both might have an out... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    It would require comparatively radical changes(and possibly a cut to precious, precious margins); but it seems to me that both companies have a potential major asset that they could rely on in this "Post-PC" environment:

    For intel's part, their chip designs at the low-power end are mediocre and not as profitable as their Xeons and soak-the-gamers parts. However, their fabs are among the best. Were they to announce that some lucky ARM SoC maker could(for a large pile of quite public cold cash and some quiet restrictions designed to keep their product in tablets and away from Intel's bread and butter) be the only one in the industry to be fabbing their otherwise pedestrian wares on one of the smallest, lowest-power processes in the industry... Doing this would, of course, pretty much scotch their attempts to compete in the area with Atom parts, since their plan has been to die-shrink those until they can compete, so offering the competition matching die-shrinks means that that will take forever; but offering the competition die-shrinks will mean a profit per tablet/phone/whatever now, not in "just a few quarters from now, when cargo pants come back into style".

    For Microsoft's part, it remains to be seen how well "Windows Phone 7" will end up doing; but, if nothing else, they have .NET/Silverlight/XNA, which is theoretically cross platform/cross architecture, and(while Apple would never touch that with somebody else's 10 foot pole), a few modifications would produce something that could be licenced to makers of Android gear that would allow it to run(nearly unmodified) .NET/Silverlight/XNA applications, produced in quantity by MS's generally well regarded developer tools. Not their preferred solution, of course, since selling OSes is more lucrative than selling runtimes(Hey Adobe, how's that "flash lite" licensing revenue working out for you?); but nothing in the relevant licenses would forbid the production of "Android for Enterprise", which takes a more or less stock build of Android; but has support for CLR software and a few interface layers to the android UI/notifications/address book. They've made money selling application software to Mac users for years, so this wouldn't be the world's most shocking departure, if Windows on tablet/phone doesn't really pan out...

  5. Re:Tablets are not the answer by Organic_Info · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I had high hopes for the Toshiba AC-100 but the reviews all say the same thing great hardware (with some odd keyboard decisions) badly let down by the Android implementation and self rolled App Store.

    I don't understand why the OEMs seem so averse to taking a nice ARM netbook and partnering with one of the large and popular Linux distributions rather than rolling their own poor to unterley crap install or partner with some no name distribution, both of which fail to deliver a decent consumer experience or community.

    ARM have been promising "ARM based laptops/netbooks will be out soon" for the last three years, so far their licensees and the OEMs have failed to deliver.

    I'd say the market is there, I wonder now though if they'll just continue to chase Apple believing locked down tablets to be the market to chase rather than getting back to those of us who are waiting for a decent ARM netbook/laptop.

    --
    "Things that you own end up owning you" - Tyler Durden (via Diogenes of Sinope).
  6. Re:Bubble by eltonito · · Score: 2

    A bubble is likely, but tablets are also a complementary market to the PC. Tablets might have an impact on PC/laptop sales, but they aren't going to spell the death of the platform anymore than Netbooks did.

    And like the mighty tablet, Netbooks were predicted to deliver the death blow for PC's by pretty much every tech blog/zine. They ended up having a slight negative impact on PC sales, and then were banished to the land of the unhip the moment usable, inexpensive tablets hit the market. Netbooks failed to deliver on the hype because they were complementary technology, not replacement technology. Tablets are much the same.

  7. Re:just wow, the ignorance is overwhelming by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    Windows CE is a piece of shit and it is not even a contender except in the form of Windows Phone which by Microsoft's own statements will be superseded on future devices by Windows 8. So in fact you are talking from the wrong orifice. I've owned multiple WinCE devices; right now I have an iPaq H2215, a Digital Tech Dt366, and two Magellan GPSes (one of which I have hacked to run other stuff.) They are fucking garbage at all levels but especially the software. Actually, my Dt366 now runs Debian... and I have run Familiar on my H2215 (I hope to get Android working on it eventually, but I'm not trying very hard. OpenEmbedded steadfastly refuses to build a bootable system for me, every time I try someone has broken some different package. No testing is apparently built into the process of new package submission for OpenEmbedded or, by extension, Angstrom. It's a miracle when you get a build.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  8. No kidding by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Something that the tech journalists who get infatuated with tablets seem to fail to consider is that they are lousy devices for content creation. They are good for passive experiences. If you want to surf the web or maybe watch a video (though a TV is better for that) they work great. However the more interactivity that is called for, the less useful they are. When you get to content creation, and by this I mean even simple things like writing an e-mail, they are not very good. They CAN do it, but not near as well as a regular PC.

    A tablet can't match a keyboard, mouse, and monitor for entering information. This is because the keyboard is an efficient means of entry, and has tactile feedback, and you can be looking at what you are doing without your hands occluding part of your view.

    So a tablet is fine as a toy, and for some special productivity purposes, but it lousy for most general work related things. That alone means that computers aren't going anywhere. Even if homes became 100% tablet, offices wouldn't because you need to get shit done there. Managers are not at all going to be interested in moving over to tablets and then have everything slow to a crawl as people's typing speed (among other things) goes through the floor.

    I don't see computers doing anywhere any time soon, particularly not in favour of tablets. We've got a few people at work that have iPads and they amount to nothing but toys. They all crow about how wonderful they are, but all they do with them were things they already did with their laptops, and none of them have gotten rid of their laptops and kept just the tablet. That's all well and good, but it is quite clear tablets are not something that is allowing them to dump traditional computers.

    1. Re:No kidding by Whyzzi · · Score: 2

      A tablet can't match a keyboard, mouse, and monitor for entering information. This is because the keyboard is an efficient means of entry, and has tactile feedback, and you can be looking at what you are doing without your hands occluding part of your view.

      What happens if you give a tablet a mouse and a keyboard then with USB-on-the-go like they did with the Nokia N8 (scroll down, look for the picture with the keyboard and mouse attached to the phone).

      --
      "BSD is about people pissing each other.." (Moid Vallat)
    2. Re:No kidding by aztracker1 · · Score: 2

      I have to agree, though as a thin-client, I think the Arm+Chrome may be a possible solution as more and more internal office applications become web based.. though Outlook Web is in serious need of some updating. I think that there is some potential in that space... I don't think that the Tablet form factor will rule out for all computing usage for a long time to come. We still don't have voice recognition that's accurate enough for general use, and gestural input has a long way to go as well. I did know a lot of Palm Pilot users who were really good with graffiti, but nowhere near as fast as a proficient typist. A lot of computer usage is data entry, and until something topples the keyboard and mouse there it isn't going anywhere.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
  9. Re:Get back to me when it works. by ArcherB · · Score: 2

    The gadgets are fun to putz around with, don't get me wrong, but the fact that I still can't save an attachment from a gmail to my Android device without loading on some third party software means that there is a long way to go.

    I can save gmail attachments to my Evo, no problem without any third party software. Now, if I want to open those attachments or even find them, then, yes, I will need third party apps. A file browser for example.

    --
    There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
  10. Market "shift" or market "growth"? by erroneus · · Score: 2

    There is no end to the speculation of what certain things mean to the future of "the industry." Yes, tablets of varying sizes are extremely popular. They have been popular for a VERY long time starting with the Palm Pilot and some might argue even before that. But unquestionably, Palm (hand held computing) has proven to be a virtually addictive form of computing.

    I don't recall, but I wonder if after the introduction and immense popularity of the Palm Pilot series of devices led people to speculate "the end of the PC as we know it?" Clearly that was not the case regardless of any speculation that may have occurred. But now we are looking at really souped up handheld devices that do a great deal more than their forerunners. A lot more of the desktop/laptop functionality is being copied into handheld devices now. But so far I see the following factors as cause not to believe that handheld computing will replace desktop computing:

    1. Keyboards
    2. Displays
    3. General comfort

    These factors all have one thing in common -- how the user interfaces with the device to make use of it. A full-sized keyboard is a must for any serious amount of data entry. It would take me four times as long or more to enter this comment from my android phone. Display sizes and positions also contribute to the comfort the user experiences. A good sized display at an appropriate elevation makes all sorts of computer use more comfortable. With handhelds, you can comfort your arms by holding the device low resulting in a "prayer" like position. (I have heard it called a "blackberry prayer" often enough) If the handheld were closer to eye level, then the arms would get tired pretty fast not to mention that the display would likely be held rather far from the user's face making it even more difficult to see the tiny displays. And if it were an iPad display, now you are dealing with an entirely different set of limitations and issues though iPad's display size is pretty optimal in my opinion though it means you can't put it into a small pocket.

    The general comfort item was included to fill in the remaining gaps. But the fact is, the way handheld devices are used, they can't really be used for hours on end in comfort. Nothing really replaces the mouse. Nothing seems to overcome the need for a separate numeric keypad. (Though interestingly, since I started on things like C64 and TRS80 CoCo, it took some doing to get used to the 10-key at all... and I still don't use it so much personally -- I just say that people in general make a great deal of use of the 10-key portion of a keyboard even if I don't) To have your hand lower, your arms rested and your head vertical at once is a human ergonomic requirement that cannot be overcome without extreme technological improvements such as display "glasses" or projectors.

    While there is unquestionably a revival in the popularity of handheld computing and data devices, I don't see it "replacing" the desktop PC just yet and it has little to do with their power and capacity and everything to do with how it is used. (These are details that gadget engineers tend to forget while they are taking advantage of ever more powerful things in ever more tiny packages.)

  11. The Innovator's Dilemma by Orne · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Someone at Intel needs to read Christensen's "The Innovator's Dilemma".

    CompanyA is the leader in the high-end market. They see upstart CompanyB, who has a new (disruptive) technology that is targeting a new sub-market with lower profit margins. CompanyA says "Why do I want to compete with B at lower margins in an untested market, my customers don't want that product, and I am already in competition in my existing market. They can have those customers".

    So CompanyB takes the new market with the new technology with ProductB and CompanyA keeps making ProductA. But over time, process improvements in B begin to outpace A; Intel's CISC are too much for hand-helds, but an ARM may someday become powerful enough (multicore perhaps) to become a desktop processor. Technology A is already at the height of it's S-curve, while B climbs and intersects the capabilities of A. At that point, products A & B are equal in the eyes of the customer, but B is cheaper and soon nibbles at A's customers. CompanyA is non-existent in the new market which is now growing at unforseen rates. CompanyA is now in a position where it *must* switch to technology B, but it is years behind, and making B's canibalizes CompanyA's existing customers. History has shown that the CompanyAs soon hopelessly fall behind and thus die off.

    1. Re:The Innovator's Dilemma by David+Jao · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Intel's CISC are too much for hand-helds, but an ARM may someday become powerful enough (multicore perhaps) to become a desktop processor. Technology A is already at the height of it's S-curve, while B climbs and intersects the capabilities of A. At that point, products A & B are equal in the eyes of the customer, but B is cheaper and soon nibbles at A's customers. CompanyA is non-existent in the new market which is now growing at unforseen rates. CompanyA is now in a position where it *must* switch to technology B, but it is years behind, and making B's canibalizes CompanyA's existing customers. History has shown that the CompanyAs soon hopelessly fall behind and thus die off.

      You and everybody else here (including the author of the article and every single slashdot commenter) are missing a big point. The Wintel platform has an extraordinary track record of maintaining binary compatibility. This is a huge feature that many of Intel's business customers need. Without it, ARM is not even in the discussion.

      ARM can't offer binary compatibility even in principle. ARM doesn't make chips. They license their design to others who make chips. The licensees in many cases are allowed to modify the design, and their business model depends on allowing the licencess to do so. So far, I am only talking about ARM-to-ARM compatibility, which is already practically nonexistent compared with x86-to-x86 compatibility. On top of that, there is the huge existing installed base of x86 applications, which ARM is (obviously) not compatible with.

      You can, literally, buy a brand new Intel machine today and run DOS 5.0 and Windows 3.1 on it, unmodified, without emulation. That's 20+ years of unbroken binary compatibility. No one, not even ARM, can break into Intel's core base, because they cannot offer this level of compatibility, or even anything close. I also want to emphasize just how underappreciated this feature is. No other consumer technology ever made can claim anywhere near 20 years of full end-user software compatibility. (And really, if you're counting, it's closer to 30 years, since DOS 3.3 and the like will work as well -- but few customers need that.)

      At worst, the Wintel platform might go the way of IBM mainframes -- no longer at the center of the tech world, but still profitable for many decades thereafter.

  12. Re:This BS again by jedidiah · · Score: 2

    ...yet another ignorant car analogy.

    Ford "displaced" Mercedes Benz. Ferrari is something entirely else here. They are a speciality brand that came along later to exploit a speciality niche in a mature market.

    It's Benz that represents the "older and better" tech here.

    Contemplate that for a bit and pay attention to the other cars on the road next time you're driving. ...cause Benz never went anywhere.

    Mindless hyperbole not required.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  13. Only one thing in that article stuck in my head by spiderbiten · · Score: 2

    "Microsoft's next-generation operating system has abandoned Intel exclusively for the first time." I had to go and read the article, which seemed like normal "tech news" crap. Then I read this line and it rubbed me the wrong way so badly. While technically it might be true, about Windows 8, it sounds like it's implying the NT OS has only ever been on Intel chips. That would be so very wrong, Comptia A+ learning guide's version of Windows history style of wrong.

  14. The world moves on by JerryQ · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I wrote my first program in 1970

    I have used ICL, Burroughs, IBM, Univac, TI, DEC operating systems, VMS, nix, CP/M, MS DOS, win x, Apple OS etc etc

    I have a wintel desktop which I use for devlopment activities, I carry an iPad, I have donated my laptops to nephews and nieces.

    If I did not work in the IT 'space' I would happily use just my iPad.

    If something better than that comes along I'll move on.

    The world moves on, wintel was mainstream, it is becoming niche, I for one, have spent my career in technology because I love the excitement of new things and concepts coming along.

    In my experience it is the wintel crowd who seem unable to look forward, and behave as though wintel has some sort of divine right to its previous dominance.

    The most important development I have seen in my lifetime has been the internet, connectivity to it, html and the browser. For MOST people, that is how they do most of their computing, oh yes, and lightweight, non bloat, function specific 'apps'. Sadly, I will have to continue to use wintel on a daily basis as I have a server farm, rather than farmville. ;-)

    J

  15. Microsoft Anecdote by mpapet · · Score: 2

    Imagine being the guy they hire to manage an ARM port at Microsoft. Could there be a worse job at Microsoft?

    Imagine how the ARM guy has to go around and convince various development, marketing and management fiefdoms built on x86 since day 2 to make an ideological shift to include or even imagine an ARM port.

    -The costs will be blown sky-high if only to keep things just as they are right now.
    -The resource constraints will be retold as enormous
    -The market research will cast the ARM market as "bad" for all kinds of crazy reasons.

    This ARM guy will probably quit if he has a brain in his head, or get fired for non-performance.

    Meanwhile tiny non-x86 devices will eat away at Microsoft's business until they can't pretend any more and the 'business' collapses.

    --
    http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
  16. Depends on the content - and on tools by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    Something that the tech journalists who get infatuated with tablets seem to fail to consider is that they are lousy devices for content creation.

    Only for a limited definition of content. For drawing they are far superior to laptops.

    Even for writing they can be better, because they are so compact. I prefer taking short notes on a tablet.

    For longer writing, you can attach (wirelessly or wired) a keyboard. How many times do you have to write something really long? For most people that is not a common case.

    People like you are putting on rather large blinders pretending that tablets are not for content creation. The best tool for creation is one you have with you...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley