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Encrypt Your Smartphone — Or Else

pin0chet writes "Modern smartphones contain ever-increasing volumes of our private personal data — from text messages to images to emails — yet many smartphone security features can easily be circumvented by thieves or police officers equipped with off-the-shelf forensics equipment. Worse, thanks to a recent California Supreme Court ruling, police officers may be able to search your smartphone for hours without a warrant if you're arrested for any reason. Ars Technica has an article exploring the legal issues surrounding cell phone searches and explaining how you can safeguard your smartphone from the prying eyes of law enforcement officers."

304 comments

  1. Or Else What by sexconker · · Score: 1

    Or Else What?

    1. Re:Or Else What by AHuxley · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The police/feds can do more than just read your IMEI number now. The sneak has been removed from "sneak and peek".
      The peek is now more a search too. Add in "they are free to try to crack the password by guessing it or by entering every possible combination (a brute-force attack)" - how strong is your average MS (patch on the way some time)/Apple(optional ?)/Google(3rd party/soon?) OS NSA allowed crypto effort?
      If its strong, what about a useful plain text like backup database back on your desktop/laptop?
      Bookmarks and that autocomplete cache that never gets wiped?
      Will a country have an encrypted container detection software kit? Could you be held on not providing a pw when requested?
      The smart thing to do is have a very dumb phone and just give up a list of numbers. Back to pen register vs your online life in plain text.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    2. Re:Or Else What by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      seriously, this is the near definition of 'chilling effect'.

      don't want to reveal your whole life to some badged thug? guess you cannot HAVE a portable computer with you.

      lets tell this to the smartphone companies and carriers. lets pit the economic interests of those behemoths to the thugs in blue. maybe if the carriers and vendors realize that smartphone sales are plummeting they'll get the laws changed.

      wait - what am I saying?! you folks are like crack addicts with your cellphones and the lawmakers KNOW IT. you'll never give them up, sadly.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    3. Re:Or Else What by __aatirs3925 · · Score: 1

      Or Else What?

      Exactly. (guess i'm the only one who got the joke) I hacked my razr v3 back in the day with a magnet. touch the phone at a certain spot and bypass the password entirely.

    4. Re:Or Else What by Enry · · Score: 1

      Given my phone will wipe itself after 10 failed attempts (thank you, ActiveSync), a brute-force attack on my phone will fail in a rather spectacular fashion rather quickly.

      I wonder if I could sue for damages if they were to cause my phone to wipe itself.

  2. C'mere boy... by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 3, Funny

    You ever seen Deliverance?

  3. Simple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't carry a smartphone... that nokia 6310i still works miracles for me...

    1. Re:Simple... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      as a person who does not currently have a smartphone, I think I just decided not to EVER get one - until this kind of privacy invasion is nullified at the state (maybe even fed) level.

      until then, I can EASILY do without carrying another computer with me. I spend enough time in front of an actual pc (work and home) that its somewhat of a relief NOT to have to carry yet another 'bother me' device while I'm out.

      even if you have done 'nothing wrong' the fact that some thug in a badge can ruffle thru your correspondence for NO good reason - just ends the conversation on getting a smart phone.

      thanks - you just saved me close to $100/mo for a 2yr minimum.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:Simple... by Dr+Max · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It doesn’t only affect smartphones they will be able to search all your messages to make sure you weren’t planning something illegal check you don't talk to any known criminals. Also by taking your phone off you it stops you from contacting legal help, which could shut down their operation very quickly.

      --
      Rocket Surgeon.
    3. Re:Simple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      > as a person who does not currently have a smartphone, I think I just decided not to EVER get one - until this kind of privacy invasion is nullified at the state (maybe even fed) level.

      As a person who does not currently have a smartphone, I think I just decided not to EVER get one - until this kind of privacy invasion can be nullified [[BY ME having the ultimate control over my own device, rather than Apple or whichever telecom]].

      That's the *only* way to trust it. Laws cannot accomplish that. If nothing else, the law cannot protect you from the government that made the law.

      FTFY.

    4. Re:Simple... by c0lo · · Score: 1

      Enjoy it while it lasts.
      You reckon it will take long for the single choice you have for a mobile to be a smart-phone?

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    5. Re:Simple... by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 2

      We've moved out of the US to a third world country. Either you have influence or you don't. The US is a big mess now with too many dangerous criminals. The government variety doing their [illegal] supposed job are the most common hazard.

    6. Re:Simple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Don't be such a downer. Instead, develop software that makes your phone look completely unlocked (and mostly vanilla and innocent data on it) if you don't swipe the screen unlock thing the correct way.

      Not only could it hide/wipe personal data when the pigs are trying to rummage through your phone, it could also record them talking to each other about it - with a false data transfer icon showing low or no bandwidth use (lying) as it uploads their chatter to a server they could never hope to reach, even if they knew about it. Not only while they screw with your phone, but the whole time they have it near them. Trying to unlock it wrong would trigger the recording, but only the battery dying (or extended silence) would stop it. You would have to turn this decoy mode off once you got your phone back.

      Imagine how useful this insider knowledge could be to you! This thing cuts both ways. Pigs might have physical might/intimidation, but they tend to not have a lot of brains. A smart enough person could easily trick some pigs into revealing a lot about themselves, while the pigs learn nothing (and suspect nothing) of the phone owner.

      P.S. I don't hate police (one of my best friends is one). I do hate (and unfortunately, know some) pigs.

    7. Re:Simple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The FCC has already mandated that ALL cellphones put in service now (even old ones per Verizon) must have e911 capability, so there's imposed tracking ability already. Plus, per prominent organized crime busts recently, it seems most phones can be turned on remotely to eavesdrop on whatever is being said around them (only under court order of course...).

      So yank the battery except whenever you are planning on calling or being called - paranoid enough?

    8. Re:Simple... by Cheech+Wizard · · Score: 1

      Yup - And the simplest thing to do is to never carry a 'dirty' phone. I keep very little on my smart phone other than some 'apps' I use now and again so they can look through it any time they want to. I always assume my phone will be lost or stolen when I leave the house. I've never had a phone stolen, nor have I ever lost one, but I know people who have lost their phones and a couple ended up very sorry that they kept all the info they did on it. I also have a 'clean' laptop for travel. Same principle. I can VPN to my home server when I'm away and do what I want that way.

    9. Re:Simple... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      no cell phone is trackable if the BATTERY IS REMOVED.

      simple things sometimes work wonders.

      and yes, when I used to carry a phone, I would remove the battery when I didn't need the phone on. lots of reasons, really.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    10. Re:Simple... by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      I like my privacy but really....what the hell do you carry on your phone that having the police look at it would bother you? If you're a criminal then you shouldn't be carrying around a computer loaded with evidence that can put you away. It never fails to amaze me how simple minded so many criminals are. If you've got secrets then secure them. Having them on a mobile phone is beyond stupid.

    11. Re:Simple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dunno where you get your phones.

      I have iPhone with AT&T, $9.99/mo for the line add and then required $30 data package.

      $39.99/mo is a lot better than whoever is charging you $100 !! God!!

    12. Re:Simple... by penguinchris · · Score: 0

      Good idea! Hold on a second while I remove my iPhone's battery... oh, wait :)

      (disclaimer: I use a Nexus One and have never owned an iPhone)

    13. Re:Simple... by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      I've been looking but can't find any reputable source that says a phone can be located when it's switched off. Lots of paranoid ravings on various message boards though.
      Considering that I'll keep my iPhone thanks.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    14. Re:Simple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're really paranoid, yank the SIM out and disable Wifi.

    15. Re:Simple... by h4rm0ny · · Score: 1

      Well that's great for you if you have nothing to hide. But for everyone else, advice like this is useful.

      --

      Aide-toi, le Ciel t'aidera - Jeanne D'Arc.
    16. Re:Simple... by qpqp · · Score: 1

      Ever heard of airplane-mode? :)

    17. Re:Simple... by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Or you could just secure your smartphone, of course, which is exactly what TFA is all about. Had you read TFA, you'd also have known that 60% of criminal offenses can be committed without even being aware of it, so you might be a criminal and not know it.

      In any case, just like any other computer, a smartphone is bound to contain thousands of emails, browsing history, cookies, and other data that you'd expect to be protected by privacy laws. Make sure you protect it as good as you'd protect any other computer. Better even, because it's much more easily stolen, lost or confiscated.

      TFA mentions that the issue of warrantless searches of smartphones hasn't been definitively settled yet, so with some luck, supreme judges might be smart enough to realize that law enforcement officers should need a warrant for it. But even then, it could also be criminals that are rummaging through your personal details.

    18. Re:Simple... by mcvos · · Score: 1

      Everybody has something to hide. Even if they're not aware of it.

    19. Re:Simple... by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      The article was painting a scary image about unjust searches, average Joes getting in PMITA prison for something on their cellphone that was found in conjunction with a petty little arrest, so basically poor alsmost-innocent citizens crushed under the heels of totally corrupt, jackbooted officers.

      What I missed is even a single plausible example situation that fulfills the three basic requirements the entire article and scare is built upon:

      The first two I can understand:
      - "being arrested fpr a petty crime with the smartphone searched in the process" (Side question: which "petty" infractions lead to actual arrests?)
      - "getting a heavy sentence for something they found on the smartphone" (Side question: what "crimes" can proven beyond the reasonable doubt of judge and jury from smartphone data only - emails, photos, browser logs, GPS, apps?)

      Until here, I would still call it "good work in reducing crime, thank you officer for keeping us safe".

      But I have a hard time wrapping my head around the third requirement, but which is needed for this act to become actual oppression:
      - "not having done anything wrong, at least so you know, because there's so many criminal laws that no average Joe knows them"

      What conceivable situation would fulfill all three, ie. being oppression rather than good police work?

    20. Re:Simple... by dimeglio · · Score: 1

      Some of us a more cognitively challenged than others. It was said the amount of human knowledge doubles almost each day. Without a smartphone, you go to sleep and wake-up half as smart as when you went to bed.

      --
      Views expressed do not necessarily reflect those of the author.
    21. Re:Simple... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Enjoy it while it lasts. You reckon it will take long for the single choice you have for a mobile to be a smart-phone?

      You can always turn off or not use most "smart" features. If you don't set up email/twitter/facebook on your smartphone, the police won't be able to immediately access your email/twitter/facebook records.

      Similarly, if you don't have an always-on GPS tracking app running, they won't be able to immediately trace where you have been recently; you can delete your call/SMS logs as you go along so there's no history on your phone there.

      Now, none of this will happen with most people, for the very simple reason that it is extremely convenient to have all these "smart" features.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    22. Re:Simple... by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      If you're really paranoid, yank the SIM out and disable Wifi.

      Also, leave the phone at home at all times.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    23. Re:Simple... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Everybody has something to hide. Even if they're not aware of it.

      Well if you're not aware of it, you can hardly secure it can you?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    24. Re:Simple... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      60% of criminal offenses can be committed without even being aware of it

      I'd say that was an issue with the stupidity of the criminal law system rather than anything to do with smartphones, civil rights or real criminals.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    25. Re:Simple... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Some of us a more cognitively challenged than others. It was said the amount of human knowledge doubles almost each day. Without a smartphone, you go to sleep and wake-up half as smart as when you went to bed.

      I hope this was an attempt at humour, as you are otherwise deranged if you believe that you can double your store of knowledge each day either with or without a smartphone.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    26. Re:Simple... by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Wrap your phone in aluminum foil, and line your pocket copper wire to form a faraday cage kind of concept.

      The way I see it, if I was worried about being tracked for any reason I would not have my cell phone. While most saying this are just spouting crap from their mouth, I've done it before. Disposable cell phones are available nowadays also, which for those that are on the "fringe" and fear being known... that's an option.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    27. Re:Simple... by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      you mean... like a land line?

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    28. Re:Simple... by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Read "Three Felonies a Day"; the third is definitely the case. Federal prosecutors "throw everything at 'em and see what sticks"; they're not interested in justice, they're only interested in getting prosecutions so they can run for office.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    29. Re:Simple... by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      law enforcement officers should need a warrant for it. But even then, it could also be criminals that are rummaging through your personal details.

      "But then, I repeat myself." (Thanks Mark Twain!)

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    30. Re:Simple... by mcvos · · Score: 1

      That doesn't make it any less of an issue.

    31. Re:Simple... by mcvos · · Score: 1

      You could just secure everything, and hope you didn't miss anything important. It's better than securing nothing.

    32. Re:Simple... by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      It is only a matter of time before the government requires ID to buy a prepaid cell phone. In the long term, DARPA is trying to develop "smartdust" tracking capability that would be attached to the outside of your shielding.

    33. Re:Simple... by Cytotoxic · · Score: 1

      What conceivable situation would fulfill all three, ie. being oppression rather than good police work?

      Here's an easy example, since we are talking about smartphones. The police are now arresting people for taking video on public streets with their cellphone. No, really.

      The referenced articles will lead you to a trove of cases where there is no other reason for police action other than oppression. Why might you want to record something happening on a public street if you are not a criminal?

      Well, the cops might jump you, beat the crap out of you, charge you with felony assault on a police officer and then destroy the police surveillance videos that document the crime. In this case a cell phone video of what really happened surfaced and the charges were dropped. Lest you think this is a "one off", there are plenty of other cases where police video equipment mysteriously malfunctions just at the critical moment. You can find examples via the referenced articles.

      Still wondering why you might want to keep your cellphone private if "you have done nothing wrong"? Follow those links and you'll find plenty of cases where people were arrested (and later released) and evidence on their cellphone was destroyed by the police. Catching bad guys by searching cell phones is probably quite possible. Does that mean that you should give up your right to privacy and have the police rifling through your electronic papers every time you interact with them? Does the 4th amendment really mean nothing?

    34. Re:Simple... by SCHecklerX · · Score: 1

      Failing proper crypto on the device, Remote wipe is your friend. But that won't stop any forensics tools either, unfortunately, since they don't do a secure wipe. Luckily most local police don't have those tools or the skills to use them. Yet.

    35. Re:Simple... by DavidTC · · Score: 1

      If I was worried about being tracked my cell phone would be sitting at home, where I would claim I was the entire time.

      --
      If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
    36. Re:Simple... by lgw · · Score: 1

      In today's climate, if you're a male and have a picture of a child on your phone (regardless of whether it's your own child), you're asking for trouble. Plus, as TFA points out, most laws passed recently don't require criminal intent, and given there are thousands of them, how can you possibly know what laws you have broken today?

      This climate is what makes this such a concern. If a cop decides he doesn't like you, and has access to enough information about you, there's probably something legally acceptable to charge you with. That's pretty much the definition of a police state.

      You seem to be thinking that you're safe because you haven't done anything wrong - but that offers no protection if the government or police are malicious. The fundamental reason we need our constitutional protections is to protect us from people in power abusing that power.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    37. Re:Simple... by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      I have a hard time wrapping my head around these accusations. I didn't say it is impossible or untrue, but accusations of the police in general and in the majority acting like fascist thugs is an incredibly strong one which should carry with them either a metric ton of proof or a rather large grain of salt.

      Being naive and missing even a single line of proof, I chose the grain of salt, decided, they're conspiring against me. Occam's Razor, if you will.

      Without even constructed examples or singular anecdotes, it's hard to believe. Maybe I'm just too White to get arrested for "driving while Black" or my car looks too bland but spotless, I don't know.

      If I was wrongfully sentenced to anything larger than a fine, I contest it in court until the very end. If they planted false evidence, it's time to join the militia, though. The same goes for investigating an innocent photo of my very own kid.

      But until then, every cop is my friend. If they catch me speeding or with a blown brake light, I have no one to blame but me.

      So, what crime(s) does the average Joe unknowingly commit on a regular basis?

    38. Re:Simple... by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      The line should read
      "[...] decided, they're NOT conspiring against me [...]"

    39. Re:Simple... by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      I will always encrypt everything to the highest extent possible.

      Because of privacy against all unlawful searches, by police, burglars, housemates and ex-girlfriends alike.

      I didn't meant to advocating *not* hiding everything just because there is nothing *illegal* to hide.

      I just wanted to know what *could* happen - there's no risk-benefit-decision without outlining an actual risk.

      Thank you for providing these examples. And yes, arresting and even beating people for recording the police is crazy thuggish and probably reminds many people to look for their Guy Fawkes mask and gunpowder. But as everyone has a cellphones with video now, some even with HD, not even the entire National Guard can enforce that law. People will just do it veeery discreetly, which should be enough to get out unharmed and upload it where it can cause the most outrage.

      After all, it worked pretty good in the Islamic Theocratic Republic of Iran. It didn't succeed all the way, for crying out loud, but still...

    40. Re:Simple... by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      If everyone who was wrongly convicted instantly joined the appropriate militia, the size and strength of that militia would soon match the level of corruption among the respective prosecutors. Just like it should be.

    41. Re:Simple... by Dr+Max · · Score: 1

      Or you could use a watch phone (it might pass by under the radar). Good idea having a clean travel laptop.

      --
      Rocket Surgeon.
    42. Re:Simple... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think you realize what you can do with a smartphone. As you said, it is a highly portable *computer*. Android is simply a distribution of Linux, mine is running the 2.6.35 kernel. As such, you can use the standard Linux crypto tools, including FDE (full-disk encryption). Modify the init scripts to prompt for the password on boot, and you're set. Obviously you'll need one of the phones with a physical keyboard, but they are a lot more useful when using ssh or playing nethack anyway.

      So no need to worry about the evil feds stealing your information, you can keep it locked up such that there is no easy way to get to it. Unless they bring out the rubber hoses, in which case you'll probably cough up the password pretty damn fast.

  4. How? by sirsnork · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I read this yesterday and it basically says "No apps can actually encrypt your entire phone, so buy a Blackberry". They point to some apps that will selectivly encrypt parts of your data but none seem to do all of it. I found myself wondering about the headline if for %99 of the phone sout there it's actually impossible.

    --

    Normal people worry me!
    1. Re:How? by Lehk228 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      blackberry still has a huge install base, far huger still if you only consider phones with anything worth stealing on them. blackberries access things like corporate and government secrets, iphones access things like angry birds and youtube.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    2. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Americentric too. Not mention of Nokia or if it's possible to encrypt another phone... As far as I know the Nokia Eseries phones have complete phone and SD card encryption along with such goodies as remote wipe and erase on tamper.

    3. Re:How? by Gaygirlie · · Score: 3, Informative

      I found myself wondering about the headline if for %99 of the phone sout there it's actually impossible.

      I guess in most cases it is indeed impossible to encrypt everything; apps simply don't have low enough access to the filesystem and there is no way to use an encrypted filesystem. Parts of your data would always remain unencrypted and be recoverable.

      Android is very malleable but I doubt even that would support such without some heavy modifications. My Nokia N900 on the other hand could sport encrypted filesystems and home directory, thus encrypting everything but it's such a unique little thing that that's of no help here.

    4. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      And the N900 has TrueCrypt -- I know of at least`3 guys running whole-filesystem encryption.

    5. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      N900's can presumably do the same encryption as debian, and have truecrypt as an installable package.

      As for Blackberries... don't they store most of your data on Blackberry's servers? That doesn't sound very secure.

    6. Re:How? by teridon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Blackberries can be securely encrypted, but it caused me a unforeseen problem.

      I use my blackberry to filter incoming emails and alert me based on the message contents (or subject, sender, time of day, etc.) You can't do that with the default email program -- you have to get a third-party app.

      Unfortunately, if you encrypt the phone, the third-party app can't read the incoming emails anymore. It seems to be a platform limitation. (If someone can prove me wrong, please do so!) I *want* to encrypt my blackberry, but it would then become basically useless to me.

      I have a password on it, of course, but that's not nearly as good as using device encryption.

      --
      I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing. -- Thomas Jefferson
    7. Re:How? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Yes Canada loves the US/NSA, Nokia/German interests love the BND who love the NSA.
      You might be safe from the local feds, but message has to be routed somewhere.
      Your message is safe but the number links you... then your phone is fair game.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    8. Re:How? by natehoy · · Score: 3, Informative

      No. BES (Enterprise) users have their data stored on the corporate Blackberry Enterprise Server, which is company equipment, and data is generally backed up by that server. BIS users have their stuff stored on the phone and you have to back it up to Blackberry Desktop if you wish to do that.

      Plus, merely getting their paws on your phone wouldn't be enough even if Blackberry did have it. They'd have to contact RIM, which is a Canadian company.

      My Blackberry is set with an 8-character moderately complex password, but the key is to have a try limit. If you enter a bad password ten times, my Blackberry will nuke itself clean of all data. Only music and pictures are unencrypted, the rest is a very hard nut to crack. Probably not impossible, but very tough.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    9. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you have root on your android phone you should be able to encrypt everything. Under the android environment is just an embedded Linux install without a gui. Of course the only practical way to enter a password on boot is if you have a physical keyboard (unless you could get a minimal graphical touch screen environment prior to loading the rest of the OS off the encrypted volume).

    10. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably not impossible, but very tough.

      The only way I could figure to brute force a BlackBerry is to install a backup and brute force until it wipes, then repeat. You'd need a lot of phones.

      I believe that the phones themselves, even of BIS users, are AES encrypted. The password assigned to backup files is a joke for security. Don't even bother.

    11. Re:How? by MyFirstNameIsPaul · · Score: 1

      What is the app? I'll install it on mine and let ya' know.

      --

      I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.

    12. Re:How? by fermion · · Score: 1

      I can't really see the need for encryption of a data on my phone. I encrypt the hardisk of my computer I carry around because I am not willing to lose that data at a whim. There is nothing on my phone that is not redundant. There are any number of way to wipe the phone, and I suspect that anyone who plays with the phone will wipe the data. That is fine with me. If I do it accidentally, it is a simple restore.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    13. Re:How? by rockNme2349 · · Score: 1

      My Blackberry is set with an 8-character moderately complex password, but the key is to have a try limit. If you enter a bad password ten times, my Blackberry will nuke itself clean of all data.

      This is definitely a good idea, as long as the data isn't too sensitive. You need to remember that a sufficiently equipped adversary won't be brute forcing your encryption on the Blackberry, but on their own system after they've extracted the encrypted data. Probably one of the best security measures you can have is a physical chip which contains the key, with a physical self destruct after too many attempts. I remember reading an article about a flash drive like this. This of course assumes that you can make this chip very hardened from an attacker extracting the key.

      But I mean if it's only someone casual you're worrying about, and not the NSA you're probably fine.

      --
      Sewage Treatment Facilities - "Our duty is clear."
    14. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since data is stored on a separate partition on Android, it's a lot easier than typical Linux setups. So you wouldn't necessarily have to load a second environment ahead of time (especially not during the bootloader stage).

    15. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's why you use BBM and PIN messaging, not email. Encrypted and point-to-point.

    16. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No. BES (Enterprise) users have their data stored on the corporate Blackberry Enterprise Server, which is company equipment,

      Wrong. With a BES, the data is also stored on the blackberry, and the two of them are kept in sync.

      A BES also lets you force mandatory security policies on the blackberries.

      Plus, merely getting their paws on your phone wouldn't be enough even if Blackberry did have it. They'd have to contact RIM, which is a Canadian company.

      Wrong again. With a BES, RIM does NOT have the keys needed to decrypt. Contacting RIM isn't going to help you. You need to contact the owner of the BES.

    17. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So how do they extract the encrypted data? And how do they run the BlackBerry OS on something other than a BlackBerry device?

    18. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not surprising. When encryption is enabled and the device is password locked, nothing (including the native email app) can access the message contents until the password has been entered.

    19. Re:How? by Stooshie · · Score: 1

      Is "huger" a word?

      --
      America, Home of the Brave. ... .and the Squaw.
    20. Re:How? by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      Virtual machines. Virtual images.

      How do you think apps and OSes for smartphones get developed? Reflashing ROMs with every new nightly build, hoping you didn't brick the phone *this* time? That way, even RIM themselves would run out of spares fast...

    21. Re:How? by teridon · · Score: 1

      I've tried two separate apps -- "WebMessenger Message Alerts" and "AlertMatrix Pro". Tech support for both companies told me the same thing -- if you encrypt the phone, their apps cannot read the emails.

      --
      I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing. -- Thomas Jefferson
    22. Re:How? by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      Nonsense. It's a perfectly cromulent word.

    23. Re:How? by pinkushun · · Score: 1

      No, they store contacts and messages on the phone's local storage. They can also lookup contacts via the server if needed, but it's also cached locally.

    24. Re:How? by pinkushun · · Score: 1

      Blackberry does support encryption of the device memory, contact list and media card.

      Its really annoying though, I spent a week figuring out why my caller ID'ing didn't show my contact names, when they phoned.

      Turns out contact list protection, won't show incoming caller names.

      Their solution? Disable content protection. How... lame.

      Content protection is designed to encrypt BlackBerry smartphone data. When content protection is enabled, the BlackBerry smartphone encrypts the data that is stored on the smartphone. This allows you to secure sensitive information (such as your contact information). When the contact list is content protected, features such as caller ID that use data from the contact list and Bluetooth® Address Book transfer are unable to access the encrypted data.

    25. Re:How? by pinkushun · · Score: 1

      I filter all my emails using the built-in email filter. This even applies to a Blackberry running off an internet service account.

    26. Re:How? by teridon · · Score: 1

      If those provide very basic filter options work for you, great!

      I need more features in my filters (multiple criteria, different alert sytles based on message content, etc.).

      --
      I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing. -- Thomas Jefferson
    27. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So your phone will wipe itself after 10 failed attempts? Better hold on to it when going to the bathroom!

      At least with my dumb phone coworkers can't ruin it when I'm using the restroom. Besides the fact my phone can fail unlock as many times as required, it has nothing on it when you do crack it.

    28. Re:How? by idontgno · · Score: 2

      It certainly embiggens the discussion.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    29. Re:How? by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      Actually the first part is correct. Re-flashing the phone every new FW image.
      Thing is, the phone doesn't look like a regular cell phone. The board is (at least mine was) 12x18 inches (half a panel). Has a SIM socket, a keypad, an LCD, and gobs of test points. Finally, the boards have on-board headers for external programmers like this: http://www.dediprog.com/product.php?UID=30, which work most of the time (and the ROMs are socketed for the few times you actually kill them).
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    30. Re:How? by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      gah,
      first part is *incorrect*.
      VMs are for developing software. The hardware above is for developing the firmware and lower level OS stuff.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    31. Re:How? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So how do they extract the data from the phone? And just out of curiosity, how come every developer I've volunteered my time and phone for doesn't test their software that way? RIM also has the key for BBM - they have lots of stuff that nobody else has.

    32. Re:How? by memnock · · Score: 1

      "angry birds"

      that's awesome!

    33. Re:How? by quickgold192 · · Score: 1

      I know you've been answered a million times already, but here's the crux of the problem: The only time an encrypted file system is secure is when the system is shut down and the memory has been purged. Since phones remain on all the time, there's no way to encrypt an entire file system without keeping the key in memory (to decrypt the program data.) Since the police will have physical access to your device, they can just read your key right off your RAM. The important point is that password protecting your phone at most will lock out unauthorized users at the OS level. Physical access can sidestep this.

    34. Re:How? by natehoy · · Score: 1

      Huh?

      Wrong. With a BES, the data is also stored on the blackberry, and the two of them are kept in sync.

      You're right of course, but you're refuting something I never said. The question was, "As for Blackberries... don't they store most of your data on Blackberry's servers? That doesn't sound very secure.", which I interpret to mean "servers owned and operated by Research in Motion."

      The data is not, in fact, stored on RIM-owned servers. As I already stated, it's stored on BES (company-owned, as in the company that owns the cell phones) equipment, not RIM's.

      Yes, the BES and the Blackberry both have copies of the data, obviously. But RIM does not.

      Wrong again. With a BES, RIM does NOT have the keys needed to decrypt. Contacting RIM isn't going to help you. You need to contact the owner of the BES

      What? You're arguing another point I never even made. My first assertion was that RIM does NOT have a copy of the data, and this was a continuation that even if they did law enforcement or ne'er-do-wells would have a hard time getting it from them.

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
    35. Re:How? by natehoy · · Score: 1

      So your phone will wipe itself after 10 failed attempts? Better hold on to it when going to the bathroom!

      Why?

      We've had several people forget their passwords. We contact the Helpdesk, give them our employee ID, and we get an email with a new activation password. All company data is backed up on the server, and is pushed back to the phone once I re-activate it. The whole thing takes about an hour.

      I think you're thinking recovering a wiped phone is a big deal. It's easier than losing the password to my whole-drive encryption tool on my laptop...

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
  5. Encrypted texting on Android by intellitech · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I use TextSecure by Whisper Systems for text messaging. It's currently in beta, but secure sessions are easy to set up, and the whole application, in general, is working out quite well for me. Better than the stock messaging application in CyanogenMod, at least.

    --
    vos nescitis quicquam, nec cogitatis quia expedit nobis ut unus moriatur homo pro populo et non tota gens pereat.
    1. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's taking things a step further - encrypting texts in transit as well as at rest. This has the downside that everyone you text is forced to use the same software, and it's not necessary to do this to preserve your 4th amendment rights (the US authorities can never intercept US citizens' communications, or any communications within the US, without a warrant; but there are cases where they can search data at rest without one, either on arrest or at the border).

      Like email encryption, I don't expect text encryption to catch on, but full-disk encryption of data at rest is clearly going to be important.

    2. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by s0litaire · · Score: 3, Funny

      Come on!
      HTC's stock SMS program is VERY secure,

      it wipes those SMS's totally!

      even when you don't want it too...

      http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=5669

      --
      Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
    3. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This has the downside that everyone you text is forced to use the same software

      This has the upside of ensuring that everyone you text is aware of the importance of privacy.

      it's not necessary to do this to preserve your 4th amendment rights

      Apparently it is.

      the US authorities can never intercept US citizens' communications, or any communications within the US, without a warrant

      That's cute.

      Like email encryption, I don't expect text encryption to catch on, but full-disk encryption of data at rest is clearly going to be important.

      They are complimentary approaches. Those who really need it will use both.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    4. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      I also use text secure on the droid. So far, I have been able to get most people that I know who use droids to install it...but even without them running it, it still stores your texts locally in an encrypted db. At least that makes casual snooping harder (of course, remember, they can also get your texts without a warrent.. the phone companies sell them to law enforcement!)

      It can also be set to timeout your passphrase, combined with the phone lockout (in case you can't power it off), should be enough to keep them out of your texts.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    5. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by bemymonkey · · Score: 1

      What about Android in general?

      Seems trivial to get around lock screens by just plugging in a USB cable and using ADB Pull to get at, well, pretty much all the files on the device. :(

    6. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by Anubis350 · · Score: 1

      This has the upside of ensuring that everyone you text is aware of the importance of privacy.

      I'm rather certain that like, despite the stereotype, most of /. the person I text the most is my SO. My girlfriend is a scientist, but not a tech/gadget person. I'd be willing to bet that most of the /. crowd's SOs are not necessarily gadget people either.

      I'm quite certain my girlfriend's response to sending her incromprehensible jibberish and explaining that it was encrypted would not be "let me ditch my simple phone and get a smart phone (and mandatory data plan) so I can use an encrypted text app to know what you're sending me"

      It would most likely be "stop acting like a jackass and send me normal texts or you get to sleep on the couch for the next week"

      --
      "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
    7. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ..and you would be a wuss for bending over backwards for such puerile behavior on her part.

    8. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I definitely don't want people reading my "whats up" omw" and "ok me 2" texts.

    9. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      I used to work for a company named Celltrust that was entirely based on the idea of encrypted text in transit as well as at rest.
      The idea is, no matter the law you fall on the side of caution. Especially since the law only works post-activity as punishment and doesn't avoid any activities.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    10. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      One day you'll learn that it's possible to send encrypted and non-encrypted texts from the same phone pretty easily.
      Just the same as it's possible to send an encrypted email, along with send an unencrypted email, from the same email client.

      Also, if your girlfriend tells you where to sleep then the relationship is a little shakey. That mindset went away in the 70's at the latest... well, for people who weren't subservient.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    11. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      I don't want people reading my texts that say "omg jst pt da enc key, itz 9196a2c630a12993d7e16e3647a51b04"

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    12. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by kellyb9 · · Score: 1

      This has the upside of ensuring that everyone you text is aware of the importance of privacy.

      Unless all they get is garbled text.

    13. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by Hatta · · Score: 1

      What exactly does you and your SO have to do with the security needs of activists, lawyers, businessmen, and other people with important things to do? Because you don't need it, no one does?

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    14. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by Anubis350 · · Score: 1

      The OP was talking about encrypting *all* his texts, and you were talking about informing anyone he texts of the need for security thusly. He wasn't specifically referring to just activists, lawyers, businessmen, etc, nor were you unless my reading comprehension has ceased to function....

      --
      "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
    15. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by Anubis350 · · Score: 1

      One day is not the same as now.

      And the couch part was a joke, the point being she wouldn't go out and buy all the necessary equipment and data plan to handle encrypted texts from me on an adjunct's salary just because I was being a pain in the ass

      --
      "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
    16. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by Anubis350 · · Score: 1

      One day you'll learn that it's possible to send encrypted and non-encrypted texts from the same phone pretty easily.

      Ah, I misread that.

      True, you can send encrypted and unencrypted texts from the same phone. However I was mostly taking issue with, from the GP: This has the upside of ensuring that everyone you text is aware of the importance of privacy." which implies that you would be sending encrypted texts to people who don't have the same software you do, or don't have it yet, annoying them. Think of it like nagware.

      Honestly, any text important enough to be encrypted needs more security than a user-level piece of software on a modern phone, since such software isn't usually allowed to have low enough level hooks to prevent key logging, clipboard caching, and other security precautions.... If you want to be secure send it as email, encrypted, from a machine you have root on and control of the OS install, to a machine they have root on and control of the OS install.

      --
      "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
    17. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by gnapster · · Score: 1

      There is clearly a need for an encryption scheme where the cyphertext is always human-readable.

      "I luv u, too man!" -> "The Government is out to get us!"
      "lol meet us at the bar, then" -> "visit http://bit.ly/madhakz for the app to read this msg"
      "dude where are you were thru the 1st pitcher" -> "encryption=freedom"
      "omg barry just stepd on a rusty nail outside O'Brawly's" [picture of toe attatched] -> [no text, message & toe pic steganographically concealed in image of bald eagle weeping under the foot of a cop who is rifling through the eagle's belongings]
      "hay man opeth gig was wicked tell u bout it l8tr" -> "Burma Shave"

    18. Re:Encrypted texting on Android by gnapster · · Score: 1

      The app I use encrypts that one with AES and the others with rot13.

  6. How about... by Haedrian · · Score: 1, Funny

    Not storing any incriminating data on your phone to begin with?

    This is like telling a person to buy a portable safe to carry illegal drugs on him.

    1. Re:How about... by WillDraven · · Score: 2

      Sounds about right to me. Using technology to subvert immoral laws (and immoral law-enforcement).

      --
      This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
    2. Re:How about... by commodore64_love · · Score: 2

      That's what I do. My phone is just a phone and I don't have anything stored on it, mainly because of fear that I might lose the phone & sensitive information. And now: Because of fear of search by police or Homeland Gestapo or the Airport SA.

      I was already stopped once because Homeland Insecurity wanted to search my car w/o a warrant. Made me stand in the hot Texas sun over an hour before finally letting me go. The last thing I need is for these Stazi to peruse my phone, and charge me with something stupid, like transporting nudie pics over state borders, or having illegal MP3s, or whatever.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    3. Re:How about... by Romancer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      How about you have data required to do your job on a device supplied by your employer that also happened to have you sign a NDA?

      How would this play out with a cellphone or a laptop now that you have two distinct laws you have to abide by.

      Should the govt be able to request your password for information stored on your (or a company) device that you have signed contracts to keep secret?

      --


      ) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
      ) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
    4. Re:How about... by Haedrian · · Score: 1

      If your employer gave you that sort of data, then s/he should be able to take steps to ensure that this data can be properly kept safe.

      Encrypting that particular data is a no-brainer.

      Where I worked with, there were people who were allowed company laptops. To turn on the laptop they needed to be docked in a particular item and swiped with the company card.

      If your company hands you top secret data, then they need to make sure that its protected.

    5. Re:How about... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      its not just YOU - if you have any contact info or emails, they can now connect THOSE people with you and maybe your friends don't want to get a knock on the door if the cop are on some fishing exped.

      its like when I get spam from some moran who has me in their address book and runs a windows trojan that spams everyone in their contacts list. I had nothing to do with it but now because I'm 'associated' with a clueless moran, I now am added to some spam list.

      so, its not just you. your contacts are also now on a 'watch list'. the ever growing watch list...

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    6. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think top secret data is given to most companies and the last place you would see it is a portable device. You could have companies most secret data and the cops would still have a right to look at that if it was significant.

    7. Re:How about... by Cwix · · Score: 1

      Everyone is on a damn watchlist. Just most of the id10ts think its the greatest thing in the world cause of OMG the Terrorists are out to get us !!!11!1!

      --
      You are entitled to your own opinions, not your own facts.
    8. Re:How about... by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 1

      Not storing any incriminating data on your phone to begin with?

      This is like telling a person to buy a portable safe to carry illegal drugs on him.

      You understand that means not storing any data, right?

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    9. Re:How about... by Lazareth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What you're basically saying is that we don't need no stinking privacy, if you've done nothing wrong you got nothing to hide.

      As the laws are now, the citizen has to take steps to prevent unjustified invasion of privacy by the state, which is completely backwards.

    10. Re:How about... by Romancer · · Score: 1

      And since we are not all perfect, don't work for the brightest company bosses, and even the US government is still trying to work out a good process of handling sensitive material that needs to be transported by the user masses...

      What happens when a business or government employee (ours or theirs) travels through one of these nations or states that have enacted a search process that allows them to take and make copies of data stored therein? Even if they're not in the limited class of people traveling with diplomatic immunity they should be given some measure of protection to the data they carry with them without having to do the almost impossible task of completely encrypting all data and making impenetrable any possible methods of gaining access by unauthorized peoples.

      Even if they had a perfect system, they need to get to the data while traveling so they would have to have a method of accessing the data.
      If traveling through the airports (and now we're one step away if arrested), then they can request the password to encrypted files. So the basic question stands...

      If you have signed an NDA and have the unfortunate set of circumstances put upon you, do you have any option that would not land up with you breaking at a minimum a contract, and at worst the law?

      --


      ) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
      ) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
    11. Re:How about... by klui · · Score: 2

      As per the article, difficult to do when there are tens of thousands of laws that are on the books. What if your phone's accelerometers show you were traveling greater than the speed limit? The data is captured and you didn't even know.

    12. Re:How about... by Romancer · · Score: 1

      I'm not talking about plans for room temp superconducting intel chipsets, but things that the company has said are proprietary and they would not like to have public or in the hands of their competitors. This could be something as simple as a demographic response report of a new product design. Something that's not earth shattering and needs every protection but that you could have the responsibility to protect. Then do you tell the employer that it's now a matter of police record? It's all about balance here, everything isn't so important as to need a dual key, voiceprint and retna unlocking self destruct verification system but it may be under a contract to keep trade or process secrets, secret. Get it?

      I don't think top secret data is given to most companies and the last place you would see it is a portable device. You could have companies most secret data and the cops would still have a right to look at that if it was significant.

      The problem is that even though they have the right under a certain law, maybe that law isn't just. Or necessary, or narrow enough to actually do more good than harm to our rights. This isn't even taking to issue that I don't want my personal data out there even if it wouldn't ruin my life, I may just not care to have it viewed by others, and keeping it under a basic encryption set and taking care not to lose it should be enouogh protection for not "top secret" but personal information. At least in the land of the free.

      --


      ) Human Kind Vs Human Creation
      ) It'd be interesting to see how many humans would survive to serve us.
    13. Re:How about... by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 1

      Not storing any incriminating data on your phone to begin with?

      Are you sure that you have never broken any laws? Are you sure that your phone does not store any incriminating data?

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    14. Re:How about... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Sure the police can search the phone, but they're going to do that whether it's encrypted or not. I'm not going to be happy if police can read my email, but it won't actually hurt me in any way. The real pain is when they go and confiscate the computer or phone and you don't have access to it. Encryption won't help you there.

    15. Re:How about... by msauve · · Score: 1

      "Are you sure that you have never broken any laws?"

      Everyone is guilty of something. It's only a matter of how much they want to get you, that they go to the trouble of figuring out what it is.

      Vote Libertarian.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    16. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The company I work for does civil engineering work. While it doesn't sound exciting, something as simple as "a new burger king is going to be built" is considered information that needs to be kept safe. Our clients would be outraged if a real-estate deal or business deal went sour. Alot of mundane companies have alot of mundane secrets, that happen to be critical to their business.

    17. Re:How about... by perpetual+pessimist · · Score: 1

      What you're basically saying is that we don't need no stinking privacy, if you've done nothing wrong you got nothing to hide.

      It's not that we don't need privacy. It's that if you encrypt your phone, the cops will beat the password out of you anyway. And if you complain of being beaten, they'll beat you more, and no one will stop them.

      Of course, not every cop is corrupt like this. Plenty of cops would never dream of beating a person in custody. They have other prisoners do the beating, instead.

      The lesson is not "if you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide", it's "don't put the stuff you need to hide on your damn phone".

    18. Re:How about... by rolfwind · · Score: 1

      Not storing any incriminating data on your phone to begin with?

      This is like telling a person to buy a portable safe to carry illegal drugs on him.

      Who modded this snarky, dumbass comment up?!

      I take it you have never seen the video, "DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE!" by Professor James Duane and Officer George Bruch:
      http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8167533318153586646#

      If it's too long for you, the gist is that we have SO MANY DAMNED LAWS that even the authorities can't count them. We're no longer in the land of common sense things, simply of arbitrary rules. Plus, thanks to treaties, even owning a lobster may sometimes be illegal.

      So it's up to the Police/Prosecutor discretion, or if you are a smart person, you leave the discretion in your hands. So the best advice IS NOT TO GIVE the authorities any ammo against you. This is a police state, the table is tilted, guilty until proven innocent so many times it's not funny, so don't throw any balls on the table to begin with. Encryption is perfect for this.

      As an example, you get a text from a buddy: "You coming to smoke up 2night?" Now, he may be joking, but do you want to explain that to a cop? Heck no, it's your business, not his, to begin with.

    19. Re:How about... by bored_engineer · · Score: 1

      And your friend who mentioned in an e-mail that he's staying home to smoke pot tonight? While you, as I choose, may not smoke pot, I would happily make the effort to protect him.

    20. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your argument is flawed.

      You imply that illegal information is the only thing that law enforcement will find useful on you. Guess what? If they get your phone, you're now profiled against everyone in it for 'simply being', and if anyone of the contacts that they carry gets 'busted', means you are now under suspicion by proxy. Doing something is irrelevant in the age of information and profiling, which is exactly what this entire discussion is about. Can you guarantee, 100% that the police will destroy all 'information' they profile on you, once they figure out you've done nothing 'wrong'? No, you can't. And that's a major part of the problem.

      Simply put, I shouldn't have to feel like a criminal just because I live my life.

    21. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's that if you encrypt your phone, the cops will beat the password out of you anyway. And if you complain of being beaten, they'll beat you more, and no one will stop them.

      But you're probably rather safe if you're white and not living in a trailer.

      I don't watch the news much but yesterday I saw news footage of a scrawny black woman who was misidentified and then arrested, and immediately tazed while lying face-first on the ground. It gets ridiculous sometimes.

    22. Re:How about... by gandhi_2 · · Score: 0

      If one would give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest man, I would find something in them to have him hanged.
      - Richelieu

    23. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure the police can search the phone, but they're going to do that whether it's encrypted or not.

      Not mine. I have a blackberry, and the contents are encrypted with AES-128.

      Good luck with decrypting & searching that.

    24. Re:How about... by tftp · · Score: 1

      If you have signed an NDA and have the unfortunate set of circumstances put upon you, do you have any option that would not land up with you breaking at a minimum a contract, and at worst the law?

      An NDA can't ask you to break the law. So if you are arrested it's because you took the NDA too far. NDA typically tells you to take "reasonable measures" to protect the information; it doesn't mean that you must defend it with your life or your freedom.

    25. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're looking at the problem from the wrong end. It's not about you but them.

      Imagine me, a foam mouthed psychopath who enjoys harming people, ending up in police force due to some statistical anomaly. Imagine yourself being a responsible citizen trying to point out the transgressions I've committed. Can you imagine the countless ways I would find having your emails "helpful" in "assisting" you with your task?

      If there's a difference between police and criminals, it's not because they've been born as good people but because there's still something in the system that doesn't let them to behave like the latter group.

    26. Re:How about... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      More that if you have something to hide, do a better job of hidinhg it.

      It's pretty stupid to rely on the people who you're hiding information from to help you to hide it no matter what they should do.

    27. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not storing any incriminating data on your phone to begin with?

      All your data is incriminating, even if it's not evidence of any criminal activity.

    28. Re:How about... by Lazareth · · Score: 1

      You're missing the point. This is not about crime, this is about privacy.

    29. Re:How about... by mcvos · · Score: 1

      How about you have data required to do your job on a device supplied by your employer that also happened to have you sign a NDA?

      How would this play out with a cellphone or a laptop now that you have two distinct laws you have to abide by.

      Should the govt be able to request your password for information stored on your (or a company) device that you have signed contracts to keep secret?

      I think a warrant would overrule any NDA. And I think it's reasonable to expect that NDA'd information is always stored in encrypted form on vulnerable devices such as smartphones and laptops.

    30. Re:How about... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      I didn't mention crime.

      Your privacy is your responsibility. Whether it should be or not, the fact is it's up to you to preserve it.

    31. Re:How about... by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

      Standing one hour in Texas sun on the open road can be life-threatening. If needed, feign dehydration and sunstroke some time before you actually dehydrate and collapse, so you'll stay in control of what happens instead of passing out. Sue in any case.

      Nice material for events like these:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDJrQBwJpqk
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaCe6nQUX5c

    32. Re:How about... by Lazareth · · Score: 1

      No, it is not. Privacy is a right. Look it up.

    33. Re:How about... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Lets see - the Police are able to search your phone. There's absolutely no guarentee that the government is going to respect that right. You have some data you want to keep away from the governmnet for whatever reason.

      Your options are:
      Rely on the "right" that you allegedly have but the government doesn't respect.
      Prevent the government from getting hold of it in the first place.

      I'm going to do the second of these. You can try the first, and complain self righteously when your rights are violated, but I'll be the one who hasn't had his rights violated.

      Who has the most to lose from this right being violated? Who has the most to gain? Who do you trust most to preserve this right? In practice, whose responsibility is it to preserve this right?

    34. Re:How about... by Lazareth · · Score: 1

      Uh, what are we disagreeing about again?

      I originally replied to a guy who thought that if you wanted privacy you were a no-good scumbag criminal (my emphasis). The opinion I expressed was that we had a right to privacy and that it was backwards that we had to protect ourselves against unjustified invasion of privacy. I never said that because we had this right we shouldn't actively protect ourselves against such invasion when it is evident that the police doesn't care two shits about our rights.

      I'm not against encrypting your data, I'm FOR it. I'm merely expressing that I find the need for it distressing.

    35. Re:How about... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Ah right. I should probably pay more attention to the start of a conversation:)

    36. Re:How about... by realityimpaired · · Score: 1

      What happens when a business or government employee (ours or theirs) travels through one of these nations or states that have enacted a search process that allows them to take and make copies of data stored therein?

      Most any corporation that actually travels to countries like that is smart enough to set up a VPN. It's relatively trivial to do so, actually.

      Provide your user with a blank laptop. No information stored on it at all, except the OS and the VPN software. Don't give the user admin rights, and if you're really paranoid, there's no reason the hard drive has to be writeable at all. Use the VPN software to remote access your system back at home, and block copying files from that remote system to your laptop. Make the authentication rely on a random seed generator, like an RSA key, so even if they have an image of the hard drive they can't do anything with it. The laptop essentially becomes a dumb terminal that can be used from anywhere with an Internet connection. Because you're not actually *doing* anything with the laptop, this can be done with the cheapest laptop on the market, even a netbook. It's easy and cheap for them to implement, and my corporate overlords have set me up with such a system for working from home.

    37. Re:How about... by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Accelerometers measure acceleration, not velocity. (The GPS and/or cell towers could report your velocity, though.)

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    38. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Accelerating at 1 mile per hour per second for 80 seconds means you were doing at least 80mph at the end, assuming you weren't driving backwards down the freeway at the beginning of the measurement.

    39. Re:How about... by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      ... and too oblivious to her rights to realize she could be making a mint through a court case, as well.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    40. Re:How about... by apoc.famine · · Score: 1

      If the acceleration is logged with a timestamp, it's not going to be too hard to estimate velocity in a number of circumstances. Negative acceleration for a few seconds, no acceleration for 30 seconds, positive acceleration...looks like you just stopped at a stoplight. If you put your foot down, it's pretty easy to calculate your final velocity. And as you say, there might well be corroborating evidence from the GPS/tower.

      --
      Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
    41. Re:How about... by lgw · · Score: 1

      Are we talking about the US here? Privacy should be a protected right, but the word "privacy" does not appear in the constitution nor it's amendments. Where should I go to look it up? Some emanation or penumbra? An explicit right to privacy seems like an ideal candidate for a constitutional amendment.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    42. Re:How about... by Lazareth · · Score: 1

      privacy of the person and possessions as against unreasonable searches (4th Amendment).

    43. Re:How about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, so the word privacy doesn't appear in the constitution therefore there is no constitutional or legal privacy right... shmuck.

  7. How much? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How much is this off-the-shelf equipment?

    1. Re:How much? by Wingit · · Score: 1

      In the wrong hands, very little except time. It is called social engineering. I am not concerned with law enforcement looking at my phone. Still, in the wrong hands, it is much like losing my wallet. There is no smartphone equivalent to canceling my credit or debit card.

      --
      We win together or suffer without.
    2. Re:How much? by natehoy · · Score: 1

      Well, if you were really concerned about it, I suppose you could get a Blackberry and encrypt it (which means your data is pretty decently protected), then if you were REALLY concerned spend the extra to implement a BES and run your Blackberry as if it were a corporate one (which supports nice little features like "remote wipe", "remote brick", etc). It's costly for an individual, but...

      --
      "This post contains words, known to the State of California to cause thought. Wash brain thoroughly after reading."
  8. CA Supremes are full of shit by commodore64_love · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What part of this Supreme Law do they not understand? "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers[data], and effects[cellphones], against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things [phones] to be seized." It was adopted as a response to the abuse of the British Writ of Assistance, which is a type of general search warrant, during the 1760s and 70s and their use forbidden in 1776 when the Colonies declared themselves independent States.

    Cellphones should not be searchable until a police officer stands before a judge and obtains a warrant, and swears an oath that he, the officer, is telling the truth (and punishable with Perjury if not).

    --
    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    1. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 2

      The part they don't understand is that, even though you've been arrested with the phone on you, it's still an "unreasonable... seizure" of your effects. Their view is that it's not unreasonable once you're already under arrest.

      Traditionally, how have the contents of wallets, etc. been considered? Because a phone is in much the same situation...

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    2. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by commodore64_love · · Score: 2

      But that's too easy. Remember they arrested Professor Gates even though he had done nothing wrong (telling cops he's sick of being mistreated because of his skin color, is Protected speech). So since Gates was arrested, does that mean the cops get to search the Professors' phone, find nudie pics, illegal MP3s, or whatever, and charge him? In California "yes" but it shouldn't be that way.

      A cop should not be able to arrest a person whenever they feel like it ("resisting") and then do a hunt through a person's papers, cellphone, and effects to hang them with something. And if they do, since it's done without warrant, any contraband should be thrown-out as illegally-obtained, warrantless evidence.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    3. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by QuantumG · · Score: 2

      any contraband should be thrown-out as illegally-obtained

      If it is illegally obtained then it will be.

      Your scenario: false arrest -> search -> find something for legitimate arrest.

      This is a classic "fruit of the poison tree" and will be thrown out in any court.

      The point is: if you're arrested for a crime and they find evidence of that crime on your person, should it be admissible? And the answer is an obvious, resounding, yes. It doesn't matter if that evidence is blood on your watch band or threatening text messages on your cellphone.

      --
      How we know is more important than what we know.
    4. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What part of this Supreme Law do they not understand? "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers[data], and effects[cellphones], against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things [phones] to be seized." It was adopted as a response to the abuse of the British Writ of Assistance, which is a type of general search warrant, during the 1760s and 70s and their use forbidden in 1776 when the Colonies declared themselves independent States.

      Cellphones should not be searchable until a police officer stands before a judge and obtains a warrant, and swears an oath that he, the officer, is telling the truth (and punishable with Perjury if not).

      Dicktaters don't care about no stinkin' laws.
      Anonymous coward until I think of a password, etc.

    5. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by suomynonAyletamitlU · · Score: 2

      Cellphones should not be searchable until a police officer obtains a warrant

      Caution: IANAL zone

      How about we generalize it to future-proof the idea. Your home and your car are both physically distinct spaces, and (in my understanding) officers are only allowed to search them without warrant because they're already there--if I understand correctly, being arrested while in your car doesn't give them right to search your house without a warrant, being arrested in your home doesn't give them right to search a car you own which isn't on the premises.

      Your cell, your computers at home, any webservers you may own, etc, are all digitally distinct spaces; determining that a phone was (probably) used as part of a crime shouldn't allow access to any other device you own until a warrant is issued. Further, determining that your car or house was used to commit a crime doesn't allow access to digital spaces that happen to be in that car until a warrant is issued. That doesn't necessarily mean that the phone can't be impounded with the car, but it should mean that it can't be searched.

      The only thing about all this BS that makes me feel better is that the people making these decisions today really are out of touch; in 20-30 years, the people making the laws will be people from a generation familiar with modern technology (even if they aren't necessarily geeks) and you presumably won't have to use baby words with them nearly as much. That it is necessarily going to be a generation or two behind is really upsetting, but unless someone makes some really, really stupid mistakes and forcibly keeps them there, a lot of this will change eventually.

    6. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A smartphone isn't really in the same situation because of the sheer volume of data it can contain. Most people's wallets don't have any personal information apart from credit card numbers, a few business cards, and maybe a photo of a loved one. A phone, on the other hand, is quite likely to contain the equivalent of an entire filing cabinet, three bookshelves, and a stack of photo albums as high as your head. And that's assuming it's not currently connected to the cloud (and how would an average police officer know?)

      Frankly you could equally well argue that it's like them claiming they can search your house without a warrant because you had the key in your pocket. The violation of privacy is simply disproportionately large, and the justification for it is very unclear.

      And I'm not saying this as a typical Slashdot tinfoil "durr hurr the evil government is oppressing me with public CCTV and fluoride in the water" libertarian. I'm more worried about criminals than law enforcement. But there are still limits, and this is several steps too far.

    7. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      True, none of this applies to them just searching your phone on the street or when stopped in traffic. The rules are about what happens after being arrested.

      When you're arrested and tossed in the slammer, your personal effects that you had on your at the time are collected and put in a box. The police and investigators can look in the box to see what's there. That means opening up the wallet to see that piece of paper with a phone number on it. This however does not mean that they can search your home without a warrant though. Typically if you're in the slammer they're going to get the warrant anyway though. The point is that the police should still be required to go through the channels and get the warrant first, even if some people think it's too inconvenient.

      The part that was debatable awhile back was whether contents of smart phones fell under this rule too. Ie, is the cell phone just a stupid phone with a list of numbers which is reasonable to search, or is it a portable computer in your pocket which is not reasonable to search without a warrant.

    8. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      This also applies if you're arrested for one crime (drunk driving) but evidence is found of another crime after searching (dead body in the back seat). Of course if there's no blood dripping from the trunk, no foul smell, and no reasonable suspicion that anything is wrong they can't look in the trunk without a warrant.

    9. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by myoparo · · Score: 0
      Actually, to put things in perspective for the non-technology people (the people making these decisions), we should express the amount of data contained in modern smartphones with an already well-known unit: the Library of Congress.

      Would they really think searching smartphones is the same as searching wallets if they knew they can contain more data than all the printed texts of the Library of Congress, thousands of times over?

    10. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by phantomcircuit · · Score: 1

      Traditionally, how have the contents of wallets, etc. been considered? Because a phone is in much the same situation...

      That's a pretty obviously false statement. The contents of a wallet can be searched because they could be dangerous to the officer. How much data has ever physically harmed a police officer making an arrest?

    11. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by dbcad7 · · Score: 1

      I don't think it's so much getting arrested for a crime and then searching for related evidence, that people find unreasonable search.. If it's relevant to what you arrested for, then it makes sense.. But,,, If for example. you ran a red light, and you had an unpaid parking ticket that became a warrant and were arrested.. would searching your phone be acceptable ?

      --
      waiting for ad.doubleclick.net
    12. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Your scenario: false arrest -> search -> find something for legitimate arrest.

      This is a classic "fruit of the poison tree" and will be thrown out in any court.

      Your scenario of false arrest is unrealistic. They can always find some "legitimate" reason to arrest you. There was a study that suggested that every American commits an average of 3 felonies per day. Have you paid all your parking tickets? Then there is the old standby "resisting arrest".

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    13. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wallets, briefcases, and laptops have all been considered fair game if you have them on your person when arrested. Of course, they're only supposed to be searching them for evidence to support the charges they're arresting you on, but AIUI any evidence of any crime they do happen to find while searching is admissible in a court of law.

    14. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by krazytekn0 · · Score: 2

      Ie, is the cell phone just a stupid phone with a list of numbers which is reasonable to search, or is it a portable computer in your pocket which is not reasonable to search without a warrant.

      Just note, there are about 10 different "search theories" which have been decided by the courts and the constitution, which Law Enforcement officers use as a gauge as to whether it is reasonable to conduct a certain search or not in a given situation. It's not about whether the phone is a phone or a computer, it is about whether it is covered in the "incident to arrest" search theory or not. It should also be noted that police officers, if not constrained by time, will usually get a warrant even when one is not needed. If you look at the text of the fourth amendment, it requires probable cause, not a warrant, a warrant is only a confirmation by a judge that there is probable cause.

      --
      Not all life is cyber. Extra Income
    15. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A legitimate arrest is still not grounds for an unrelated search, though. In your parking tickets example, they'd have zero justification to look through your wallet, phone, laptop, papers, or that sort of thing.

      There was a study that suggested that every American commits an average of 3 felonies per day.

      Wait, what? I think you must have added an extra word in there somehere. "Felony" is not a word used lightly. (For example, quoth wiki: "In the United States, where the felony/misdemeanor distinction is still widely applied, the federal government defines a felony as a crime punishable by death or imprisonment in excess of one year.")

      I don't think we could even hit an *average* of three mere misdemeanors committed per American per day.

    16. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by hacker · · Score: 1

      Then there is the old standby "resisting arrest".

      Uhm...you can't be arrested for resisting arrest. If that's the case, what were you arrested for in the first place, for which you were "resisting"?

    17. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by dranga · · Score: 1

      The only thing about all this BS that makes me feel better is that the people making these decisions today really are out of touch; in 20-30 years, the people making the laws will be people from a generation familiar with modern technology (even if they aren't necessarily geeks) and you presumably won't have to use baby words with them nearly as much. That it is necessarily going to be a generation or two behind is really upsetting, but unless someone makes some really, really stupid mistakes and forcibly keeps them there, a lot of this will change eventually.

      In 20-30 years, the lawmakers will be in touch with the technology they grew up with, what we have today. And their children be complaining that the law makers are out of touch with the current technology of the time, and probably saying that in 20-30 years, they will be making the rules...

      --
      Oh no, not again.
    18. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      That's a pretty obviously false statement. The contents of a wallet can be searched because they could be dangerous to the officer. How much data has ever physically harmed a police officer making an arrest?

      A text/email saying "Arrested, send guys with AKs kthxbye" ?

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    19. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by hellop2 · · Score: 1

      "they can contain more data than all the printed texts of the Library of Congress, thousands of times over?"

      Your smartphone contains 148,000 terabytes of data?

      That thing must be huge! That's what she said!

      --
      How many more years will slashdot have an off-by-one error on your Score in your profile?
    20. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by myoparo · · Score: 0

      Of course it does. It's an iPhone and there's an app for that. And it is huge. But in all seriousness, that is large. I wonder how small of a compressed file you can get all those books in if using plain text (not scans!).

    21. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by Rob+Kaper · · Score: 1

      I don't think we could even hit an *average* of three mere misdemeanors committed per American per day.

      Indeed, we'll never reach just three of them on average, the number is probably way higher. Speeding, littering, jaywalking, blasphemy... oh yes, way higher.

    22. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by easyTree · · Score: 2

      The officer has a reasonable suspicion that you're likely to resist arrest if he attempts to arrest you so arrests you to prevent you from committing the crime?

    23. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by commodore64_love · · Score: 1

      >>>If you look at the text of the fourth amendment, it requires probable cause, not a warrant,

      False. "no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation" It's a three-step process and you can NOT skip any of the steps:

      1 Visit court and swear an oath/affirmation you, the cop, believe Person A has Contraband B.
      2 Court gives (or denies) warrant based upon your probable cause (you saw Person A carrying B).
      3 You use warrant to search person or place.

      You can not skip steps 1 and 2 and jump directly into 3. That defeats the whole purpose of requiring a third party (judge) and requiring a warrant, to ensure cops don't abuse their power. READ the text of the law and that is quite clear.

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    24. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      the people making these decisions today really are out of touch

      I think a great way to put them in touch is to (first buy them a cell phone if they don't have one), text them some contraband, and then get them arrested.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    25. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      If that's the case, what were you arrested for in the first place, for which you were "resisting"?

      Cops are busy people, you expect them to waste their time on fake paperwork so you can have a fake charge to go with your resisting arrest?

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    26. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by kellyb9 · · Score: 1

      I think the law is assuming that you've already committed a crime. In other words, if you are caught driving under the influence, they will search your car - they have a good reason to search your car, obtaining evidence, etc. The parrallel is a similar albeit gray area with cell phones [phones] (sorry couldn't help it).

    27. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a minor I was arrested for resisting arrest with no other charge.

    28. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhm.... WRONG!

      You can be arrested for nothing more than resisting arrest.

      http://www.pixiq.com/article/south-florida-politician-arrested-for-resisting-arrest-without-violence
      Her ONLY charge was resisting arrest without violence.

      http://www.wftv.com/news/10234766/detail.html
      In more than 25-percent of the 4000-plus cases Eyewitness News tracked, resisting was the only charge. That begs the question: if there's no arrest for something else how could they be resisting arrest?

    29. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      'fruit of the poisoned tree' has been used time and time again to convict. Its not an impervious defense.

      --
      Good-bye
    30. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by DryGrian · · Score: 1

      Yeah, you can. Makes no sense, but it's true. The evidence for my claim is anecdotal, granted, but people are arrested for resisting arrest (and nothing else) regularly.

      --
      For optimal comment enjoyment, take red pill now.
    31. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by scurvyj · · Score: 0

      What part of this Supreme Law do they not understand? "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers[data], and effects[cellphones], against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things [phones] to be seized." It was adopted as a response to the abuse of the British Writ of Assistance, which is a type of general search warrant, during the 1760s and 70s and their use forbidden in 1776 when the Colonies declared themselves independent States.

      Cellphones should not be searchable until a police officer stands before a judge and obtains a warrant, and swears an oath that he, the officer, is telling the truth (and punishable with Perjury if not).

      Here in my "sick joke of a country" as an SF author called Oz, we are extremely jealous of the fact you guys have a Bill Of Rights.

    32. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by krazytekn0 · · Score: 1

      Seriously? Do people really think that quote means that a warrant is necessary for any and all searches and seizures? You have a basic deficiency in understanding the english language. That would mean every time a cop saw someone committing a crime he would have to go to court and get an arrest warrant before telling the person to stop and put their hands up, as that is a seizure of the person. Then after arresting the person, the cop would need another warrant to search the person for fruits/instrumentalities of their crime directly after arresting them “a search" Or say a cop walks up to a house and sees someone stabbing someone else inside, if a warrant is required for every search then the cop would have to go to a judge and swear an oath, obtain a warrant prior to entering the house. " a search"

      --
      Not all life is cyber. Extra Income
    33. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by krazytekn0 · · Score: 1

      Also... the thing that ensures cops don't abuse power is not the judge, it's the exclusionary rule; look it up.

      --
      Not all life is cyber. Extra Income
    34. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by sjames · · Score: 1

      It's closer to arrest on razor thin excuse -> search -> find something entirely different

      The problem is that the courts increasingly look the other way if that arrest has even the slightest whiff of probable cause. Suddenly they gain the power to look through 100% of your papers just because you happened to have them on you using an excuse that was granted for reasons of safety. The only reason the courts ever allowed the police to examine your possessions in the first place was safety concerns should you have a hidden weapon.

      To anyone who claims that the slippery slope is a mere fallacy, here it is playing out in real time in a truly important issue. In just a few short steps the courts have made the leap from absolutely requiring a warrant to search you at all to warrant-less searches of all of your personal papers if they happen to be on your smartphone.

    35. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by sjames · · Score: 1

      Looks like you get an F in civics today. Probable cause is one of several pre-requisites required to get a warrant which is necessary search someone's person, house, papers, or effects. In addition there must be an Oath or affirmation and it must particularly describe what and who is to be searched or seized.

      In a short time the courts have gone from absolute prohibition to allowing "just a little searching" to see if you have weapons to suddenly letting the police paw around in your cellphone which might well contain all of your papers.

      The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    36. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by bhiestand · · Score: 1

      "they can contain more data than all the printed texts of the Library of Congress, thousands of times over?"

      Your smartphone contains 148,000 terabytes of data?

        That thing must be huge! That's what she said!

      Can you tell me where you got 148,000 terabytes from your own link? Or any other real estimate of how big the LOC actually is?

      Maybe I'm just tired, but I can't seem to find it in that post.

      --
      SWM seeks new sig for a brief fling
    37. Re:CA Supremes are full of shit by hellop2 · · Score: 1

      Sure! I cheated a little. Since the article I linked was specifically about the difficulty/ambiguity of converting all of the LoC's works into number of bytes, I just took the size of their currently digitized items, 74TB:

      "For instance, we can as of this moment say that the approximate amount of our collections that are digitized and freely and publicly available on the Internet is about 74 terabytes."

      Then since the parent myoparo said a smartphone contains the LoC, "thousands of times over", I figured the lowest possible value for "thousands" would be 2000.

      So, 74TB * 2000 = 148,0000TB.

      --
      How many more years will slashdot have an off-by-one error on your Score in your profile?
  9. You Have a computer in your pocket by Wingit · · Score: 1

    The computer in your pocket deserves the same respect as any other. A simple password to access it will block the the same person that you invite into your house and use your bathroom with permission while you expect them to to not look in your medicine cabinet. Even worse, you can loose that phone. If you do not safeguard the location of your phone, consider having a second phone on occasion and use call forwarding, Do not save anything you do not wish to share on your person. Security in layers must be applied to smartphone usage behavior and if you don't know a little about that, consider asking a technical person that does. If a person has access to your smartphone and you have unprotected access to your email, it will take seconds for them to browse your email accounts that are not even associated with your phone. I am not paranoid, but you must consider that loss of your phone may grant access to any email or accounts that that you access regularly with your phone.

    This is not news, but the limits related to abusing this ability have not been fully tested in the courts and I don't want to be the test case.

    --
    We win together or suffer without.
  10. Slightly Inaccurate Summary by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 3, Informative

    TFS:

    Worse, thanks to a recent California Supreme Court ruling, police officers may be able to search your smartphone for hours without a warrant if you're arrested for any reason.

    First, not all Americans live in California. Other States can (and have) interpreted their 4A equivalents to provide more or less protection than the Federal one.

    More to the point, it's probably not true that they can search your cellphone if you are arrested for any reason. Rather, the US Supreme Court explained recently in Gant[1], the idea is that the police can search for things "reasonably believed to contain evidence of the offense of arrest". So searching the cell phone of the CA drug dealer might come out differently than searching the cell phone of (say) a parole violator or a drunk driver.

    To be fair, Gant was an automobile search and the court might distinguish a cellphone from a car in some important sense. Nevertheless, the blanket statement in the summary is not likely to hold up if the police do not have some nexus between the arresting crime and the cellphone.

    And of course, Gant might be wrong as a matter of policy, although Orin Kerr has a very good writeup[2] of the extensive history of search incident to arrest in Anglo-Saxon law that's worth reading for some historical context.

    [1] http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-542.ZO.html
    [2] http://volokh.com/2010/12/14/the-origins-of-the-search-incident-to-arrest-exception/

    1. Re:Slightly Inaccurate Summary by pin0chet · · Score: 1

      Fair point; my short summary doesn't specify that warrantless searches of cell phones seized incident to arrest are presumptively lawful (barring exigent circumstances) only if the cell phone is "immediately associated with the arrestee" (i.e. in the arrestee's pocket). The article explains this crucial distinction in detail, noting that if you're arrested, your phone enjoys substantially greater protection from warrantless search if it's in your luggage, glove compartment, or trunk, rather than on your person.

      The article further notes that California's Supreme Court is one of several courts that have ruled that cell phones seized incident to arrest may be searched without a warrant. However, Ohio's Supreme Court reached a different conclusion in a 2009 case, so the matter ultimately be resolved by the U.S. Supreme Court.

    2. Re:Slightly Inaccurate Summary by relikx · · Score: 1

      The problem is, which you basically allude to, that defining reasonable suspicion is always on unstable ground.

      The drunk driver could have texted an admission something along the lines of "im wasted" to a friend or posted pics of himself drinking from the bar on Facebook an hour prior. Yeah criminals can be stupid but where do you draw the line?

      For all the reasons people like smart phones there is rightly or wrongly a way to interpret virtually any infraction as able to benefit from searching.

  11. If they ask for a password by tiberiumx · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It would probably be trivial to write a lockscreen program with a pair of passwords: One that you use personally to unlock it and another that silently wipes text messages / e-mail / saved data for selected applications (e.g. saved login for facebook, IM) for cases where you are compelled to provide a password.

    But I would expect that as warrantless cell phone searches gain popularity software will be available to just about anybody to bypass any security at the application level.

    1. Re:If they ask for a password by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You really wouldn't want to do that on Android, unless you desire to wipe all data affiliated with that Google account. It syncs both ways.

      A simpler script would unsync the account and clear the cache(s). Best thing is you don't really lose anything (except SMS/call history).

    2. Re:If they ask for a password by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then, even though there's no incriminating evidence in the first place, and they didn't really have a good reason for arresting you, they have a rock-solid case for evidence tampering, obstruction of justice, or whatever they call it in your jurisdiction. A good lawyer can probably still get you off by showing the arrest was improper (no/insufficient cause), and thus all evidence resulting (including evidence of your subsequent phone-nuking) is off-limits, but 9 out of 10 public defenders will lose that case.

      It's a really bad idea unless you actually do anticipate having genuine incriminating evidence on your phone.

    3. Re:If they ask for a password by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It wouldn't necessarily be that damning. For one thing, cloud-based phone services (e.g. Google) only sync over a short period, erasing old (expired) data. Erasing the entire cache wouldn't seem very unusual, especially if it's only set to sync 1-3 days. Secondly, unlike on a PC, wiping the phone data is damn-near instantaneous, so there is very little feedback which would suggest it happened at all.

    4. Re:If they ask for a password by penguinchris · · Score: 2

      There's a very nice android app that runs as a service and automatically backs up your SMS and call history to a gmail account (they show up marked as read in a separate folder, so it doesn't clutter your inbox or anything), and can then restore them to the phone later. It's called SMS Backup+ and I highly recommend it, especially if you like to play around with different ROMs and so on, because you really will never lose anything.

    5. Re:If they ask for a password by pcr_teacher · · Score: 1

      Wiping your cell phone to hide evidence is probably grounds for charging you with Obstruction of Justice

    6. Re:If they ask for a password by sorak · · Score: 1

      Good news. Your faux password program may be completely unnecessary.

      (From TFA)

      While the search incident to arrest exception gives police free rein to search and seize mobile phones found on arrestees’ persons, police generally cannot lawfully compel suspects to disclose or enter their mobile phone passwords. That's because the Fifth Amendment's protection against self-incrimination bars the government from compelling an individual to divulge any information or engage in any action considered to be "testimonial"—that is, predicated on potentially incriminating knowledge contained solely within the suspect's mind.

      They can still try to guess your password, (I assume), but they can't require you to divulge it.

      But, this does raise another question. Some people have mentioned that your plan may be "tampering with evidence". If you have a screen-unlock program that clears the data after X unsuccessful attempts, then can you claim that this is a privacy measure* and get out of a tampering with evidence rap?

      * (see the comment about the guy with the corporate phone who is worried about someone stealing business secrets, for an example of a perfectly legal justification of why this exists)

    7. Re:If they ask for a password by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trouble is that, in most cases, lying to the LEOs is, itself, a crime.

      Better to just keep your mouth shut (we do have the 5th), unless your phone has some really incriminating stuff on it.

  12. The cops by countertrolling · · Score: 1

    Aren't they supposed to be the good guys?

    --
    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    1. Re:The cops by Vyse+of+Arcadia · · Score: 1

      Cops will be the good guys when they are replaced by robots. Until then, they are just as lazy, corruptible, malicious, greedy, biased, and negligent as the rest of humanity.

      Giving cops as much power as they currently have is moronic.

    2. Re:The cops by countertrolling · · Score: 1

      Cops will be the good guys when they are replaced by robots.

      Oh, I agree!

      --
      For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    3. Re:The cops by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 1

      Gort! Klaatu barada iPhone!

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    4. Re:The cops by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      Cops will be the good guys when they are replaced by robots. Until then, they are just as lazy, corruptible, malicious, greedy, biased, and negligent as the rest of humanity.

      Let's face it, it won't end well.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
  13. Disturbing trend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's unsettling how fast police rights are expanding. The courts seem to take little regard of what the intent is of the Constitution. You should have a reasonable expectation of privacy for your cell phone and laptop but the courts seem to feel your private data is fair game. How is a cop searching for nude photos of your wife protecting the public? If a cop was caught searching for personal photos they should be fired and loose all benefits but I'd bet money they wouldn't face any form of punishment. If we loose privacy rights what rights do we loose next?

  14. What about data "in the cloud"? Or acessed via VPN by whoever57 · · Score: 1

    Let's say, that my smartphone provides acess to my emails that are not stored locally, but on a server somewhere, or files that II acess using a key that is stored on my smartphone. Would the CA Supremes think that an arrest would allow the police to then rifle through my (remotely stored) files and emails?

    What if the files and email are stored on my home PC and acessed over a VPN?

    What if I can access a camera in my house?

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  15. Why be worried about this? by pookemon · · Score: 1

    or police officers equipped with off-the-shelf forensics equipment

    So? If you're not doing anything wrong, then why worry about this?

    --
    dnuof eruc rof aixelsid
    1. Re:Why be worried about this? by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, for starters, we have the right to privacy; apparently, though, that right is not respected anymore, so we really need to be taking matters into our own hands and reminding the government that we do not want them spying on us.

      Second, and probably the more practical reason, how do you know whether or not you are doing something illegal? There are a lot of laws on the books, and people can be arrested for all sorts of things that do not seem illegal but which actually are. I very strongly doubt that you can accurately claim to follow every law; you may even have committed felony offenses without realizing it. All it would take is a police department under pressure to engage in a crack down, or a cop who just does not like you, and you could find yourself arrested and in court (but they would never do that, right?).

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:Why be worried about this? by nhat11 · · Score: 0

      Eh sorry you're not that important that they will have the time to spy on you. Why would they spend hundreds of man and money hours spying on you? You can try to remind the gov not to spy on us but please try to do it in a more effective way.

    3. Re:Why be worried about this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dont want the pictures of myself in 6 inch boots tied up and being fucked in the ass by a prositute to be seen?

      Idiot, there's always things you want to hide, even if they are perfectly legal. No one has the right to search a fucking thing until they get a warrant.

    4. Re:Why be worried about this? by John+Meacham · · Score: 1

      For instance, have you ever played online poker, even somewhere that it was legal?

      If you happen to be driving through Oregon then "Possession of gambling records" showing 5 bets totalling over $500 is a Class C felony. Better be sure to purge those confirmation emails!

      Do you live in a state with lax laws about ordering prescription drugs overseas? better not happen to have the money transfer go through while you are in another state.

      Have you ever used a random open wifi network? You phone probably remembered the MAC and that can be considered criminal.

      Ever help a friend move for cash? is it mentioned in a text? did you report it to the IRS?
       

      --
      http://notanumber.net/
    5. Re:Why be worried about this? by myoparo · · Score: 0
      Who was talking about spying? What if you get pulled over by a cop who's just having a really bad day and just so happens to not like you or your attitude? If he pulled you over for something, even for speeding, I'm sure he can come up with a legitimate reason to arrest you if he really wants. Now that they'll be able to search your phone and view your text messages just because you were carrying, they can just read everything and probably find something minor to get you with.

      Hopefully you keep all your texts with your friends are "business-like" and politically correct, because that's how people talk to their friends all the time, right?

    6. Re:Why be worried about this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Our laws require good reason and proper proceedure following in order to butt into our lives.

    7. Re:Why be worried about this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fucked in the ass

      even if they are perfectly legal

      But sodomy... might not be legal.

    8. Re:Why be worried about this? by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      Good reason? Of course, whatever fascist fantasy our elected officials, and their cronies dream up is "good reason". I can think of a few examples of "no good reason" that have happened to people that I know. Talking about them will just piss me off though, so lets check out some more well known cases. Was it "good reason" that got Allen Turing sentenced to treatment for his homosexuality? Was it good reason that Tommy Chong was jailed, because his son was pressured into sending some glass pipes to the wrong state? How about when "Max Hardcore" was sentenced to jail under obscenities laws in another state, because of material that he published... on the internet?

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    9. Re:Why be worried about this? by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      Why would they spend hundreds of man and money hours spying on you?

      Yeah, why WOULD they, when it's becoming cheaper and easier?

      When it costs them nothing to spy on you, why not?

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    10. Re:Why be worried about this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or police officers equipped with off-the-shelf forensics equipment

      So? If you're not doing anything wrong, then why worry about this?

      Well last month you responded to a Craig's list ad for a washer/dryer. You called each other a few times, playing phone tag, and then finally met up and you bought them from him for really cheap. You paid cash. Then you turned around and sold it to someone else for a profit, also in cash.

      You wake up the next morning at about 3am to the sound of your front and back doors being kicked in, along with the sound of tear gas canisters crashing through your windows. Your dog gets some broken ribs when it tries to defend your small children, who are screaming in terror because they've just been pulled out of bed by strange men with guns and their eyes and lungs are burning. Your wife gets tased because she's freaking out on the SWAT team about the kids, falls down and splits her scalp open requiring 17 stitches in the ER, and you lose several teeth and part of the vision in one eye when someone smashes your face with the butt of their assault rifle as you attempt to come to the aid of your wife and children.

      Turns out the guy you bought the washer/dryer from is an Al Quaeda operative who has been using a washer/dryer repair business as a front for his secret Meth/Coke/Heroin/Child Porn/Bomb Making business. The cops searched his cell phone records, found out that he moves the product around by hiding it inside used washers/dryers and have executed warrants against everybody who he's done business with.

      Now, sure you might eventually be proven innocent. But that doesn't pay the vet bills, or the kids' therapy, or the wife's hospital bill, or the repairs on your house, or get you your job back after you get fired for being gone without notice. And guess what- the police are not liable as long as their paperwork is in order.

    11. Re:Why be worried about this? by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      As well as exchanging money for sexual pleasures.
      That's why marriage is illegal... wait.. what?

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    12. Re:Why be worried about this? by Travelsonic · · Score: 1

      Eh sorry you're not that important that they will have the time to spy on you.

      IRRELEVANT - come on, stop shifting the goal posts.

      --
      If you believe in privacy, and believe you have "nothing to hide" at the same time, you're a goddammed idiot
    13. Re:Why be worried about this? by gregzeng · · Score: 1

      Wikileaks, the fellow Australian hunted by the USA government in Britain ... probably does not have a smartphone ? The land of free speech (USA) is a fake. Any agency can criminalize any person in the world, any time, any place. Smartphone, like all other gadgets, are used by agencies everywhere, for any purpose they like. Morality, ethics, laws, procedures, personalities, etc are meaningless compared to what is really happening.

      --
      Australian Capital Territory
  16. Or the prying eyes of.... by nhat11 · · Score: 0

    A random person that wants to steal your information. Is the submitter of this article that paranoid of law enforcement?

    1. Re:Or the prying eyes of.... by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      You're not paranoid if they really are out to get you, and the cops are always out to get you - they have a case to close, and if you're a reasonably probable innocent bystander, they can make a case just from you being there, and close their books, problem solved. You think the Duke LaCrosse Team are the only ones to ever have been railroaded? Ha! Happens every day.

    2. Re:Or the prying eyes of.... by markana · · Score: 1

      Data theft from phones is a very real possibility - just look at that recent Ars article. This is what I wrote my LokPix Android photo encryption app for - keeping pictures private in case my phone is stolen. I have scanned images of documents (ID, medical cards, etc.) that I need access to away from home, but I don't want freely accessible. So they get the full AES treatment, and no unencrypted bytes hit the SD card - thus no forensic recovery from there.

      That should stop an info thief, but a police agency can always try to force you to divulge your keys (if they realize that there are secured images). Encryption systems aren't automatically all about hiding unlawful activity - there's a very strong case for legitimate use as well.
       

    3. Re:Or the prying eyes of.... by nhat11 · · Score: 0

      Yeah I didn't say it was an issue. Just the way he described in his article seems like law enforcement are the only group that does that.

  17. If you've done nothing wrong by martinX · · Score: 1

    If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to fe-... hang on, I just have to answer the knock at the door...................

    --
    When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    1. Re:If you've done nothing wrong by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      All you have to do is never speed, never have a tail light out, never smoke pot, never drive after having more than one drink with dinner, always wear your seat belt, never look like another guy who did something bad, always have a record of where you where and who you were with, never let your driver's license expire, never have sex with an underage girl, even if she lies about her age, has fake id, and you met her in a bar, which checks everyones ID.

      depending on the current political climate, you may also want to avoid being gay, drinking from the incorrectly labeled fountain, sitting at the wrong end of the bus, refusing to hire war criminals, conspiring, racketeering, possessing an animal (dead or alive) that was harvested or exported illegally from its country of origin, even if the particular animal would otherwise be legal here (that's a federal crime).

      Sounds easy enough. right?

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
  18. just dont buy a smartphone by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    just get a cheap dumb phone, no camera, no apps, no browser, nothing, just makes phone calls

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:just dont buy a smartphone by myoparo · · Score: 0

      just get a cheap dumb phone, no camera, no apps, no browser, nothing, just makes phone calls

      Dumb phones still have text messages that can be read and probably even less security than smartphones. Do you really want someone reading all your texts, even if you don't think you've done anything wrong? Also, no passcode lock on most dumb phones-- the only thing they are likely to have is a keyboard lock to prevent butt-dialing.

      If an officer of the law really really doesn't like you, I'm sure they can find something to charge you with. That's not good, even if it's something very minor.

  19. Re:What about data "in the cloud"? Or acessed via by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if you have a limited data plan and their use causes that limit to be exceeded?

  20. Ran any red lights lately? by Powercntrl · · Score: 1

    Cops will be the good guys when they are replaced by robots. Until then, they are just as lazy, corruptible, malicious, greedy, biased, and negligent as the rest of humanity.

    Humans can at least exercise reasonable judgment over the enforcement of laws. How often have you been pulled over by a cop, only to be given a warning or a reduced ticket? About a year ago, I entered an intersection 0.6 seconds too late and ended up with an automated ticket that can't be disputed in court, nor could I face my accuser (since it is a machine). A human being would either not notice the roughly half-second difference, or would agree that it was safer to proceed through rather than slam on the brakes.

    I'm sure a hypothetical future scenario of a hover drone detecting marijuana smoke, scanning your RFID national ID card and telling you to remain where you are for your apprehension by the authorities is not that far off. About the only good that could possibly come from that, though, is making people realize how bad absolute enforcement of every law on the books actually can be.

    --

    ---
    DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
    1. Re:Ran any red lights lately? by darkpixel2k · · Score: 1

      Humans can at least exercise reasonable judgment over the enforcement of laws. How often have you been pulled over by a cop, only to be given a warning or a reduced ticket

      Yeah--that's either because they didn't actually get evidence of you speeding and are hoping you'll pay the small fine, or they have that pathetic psychological issue where they want to assert their authority (pull you over and cite you) and then have you grateful (because they are so gracious and can reduce the fine for you because they're such nice guys).

      Speeding tickets are bullshit. Who did you hurt?

      Really.

      If you saw a man with a baseball bat beating the crap out of a woman and you drew your gun, demanded the guy stop, and finally had to shoot him to prevent the woman from being killed, you'd be a hero--regardless of you being a cop or not.

      If on the other hand, someone drove by you too fast, you chased them down, flashed emergency lights (really? Where's the 'emergency'? Who is dying?), demanded identification, and finally handed them a piece of paper demanding money all while resting your hand on your holster--you'd go to jail for being a nutjob. ...unless you're a cop.

      Why is one situation right and the other one wrong?

      It's simple. Tickets are bullshit, designed to make money.

      Best education I've ever had.

      --
      There's no place like ::1 (I've completed my transition to IPv6)
    2. Re:Ran any red lights lately? by Vyse+of+Arcadia · · Score: 1

      I'm sure a hypothetical future scenario of a hover drone detecting marijuana smoke, scanning your RFID national ID card and telling you to remain where you are for your apprehension by the authorities is not that far off. About the only good that could possibly come from that, though, is making people realize how bad absolute enforcement of every law on the books actually can be.

      You're extrapolating too far. I think it would prompt a much needed reform of our system of law. Also, I'd still trust a hover drone more than a guy who could beat the crap out of me because I looked at him funny with basically no consequences.

    3. Re:Ran any red lights lately? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A human being would either not notice the roughly half-second difference

      'Round these parts, that half-second difference would have the mortuary scraping your teeth from the underside of the semi you decapitated yourself on, since not only do the cross lights turn green immediately, they're timed so that the traffic hits the light as it turns green and everyone knows it so they're already doing 50.

    4. Re:Ran any red lights lately? by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      About a year ago, I entered an intersection 0.6 seconds too late and ended up with an automated ticket that can't be disputed in court, nor could I face my accuser (since it is a machine).

      Funny, I've evoked my right to bypass at least 3 of said photo tickets by not paying them simply because they weren't issued to me as a person by a court-appointed individual. (ie police officer, etc)

      At least in Arizona, that's how the law works. YMMV.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    5. Re:Ran any red lights lately? by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      Around here, they keep you on your toes by intentionally mistiming the damned lights.
      I have to vary my speed constantly, as I've found if I do the speed limit (45 mph), I'll hit every red light, like clockwork.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
  21. Since they will probably shoot you anyway . . . by NicknamesAreStupid · · Score: 1

    . . . just use the smartphone as a shield and let them kill two birds with one bullet.

  22. The grim present to become the dark future by MrLint · · Score: 1

    The really frightening (and continuing) trend is for LEOs to seemingly look for ways to skip doing the work before hand, and swoop in and defend questionable search and seizures on people they claim to know are 'guilty'.

    While somewhat off topic, it seems to go back to the Bush era warrantless wiretapping and the FISA court. The DoJ would wiretap anyone they wanted without a warrant beforehand, under the cover of clear and present danger (or some such) and then apply later for the warrant. Now think about this a moment, a situation was deemed *so* immanently dangerous they didn't have time to do the paperwork... and then even *afterwards* the DoJ claimed they didn't have the manpower to file it afterwards. Thats right.. the govt didn't have enough people to push paper.

    But back to the point.. if you think someone in custody has evidence on the phone.. seize the phone and file the paperwork. Ya know what happens if it turns out you didn't need it? You're covered anyway.

    1. Re:The grim present to become the dark future by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't go "back" to one administrations era. ALL administrations have let questionable law enforcement tactics slide through. It have been happening since the early 70's on a more covert scale.

      The protests of the 60's might have scared politicians that the will of the people might actually require them to do their jobs and represent the people. Things like laws that infringe on a persons right keeps the powers that be, the powers that be!

  23. Linux Ubuntu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hi everyone, I hope I'm in the right place. This guy in class told me I have to use Linux Ubuntu, that it's better than Windows and that it is just like a Mac. I tried to install Ubuntu but the program won't start. I double click on it and nothing happens. I've installed other operating systems in the past, like Word and Excel, so I have some computer experience, but I don't know what to do. thanks, Jenny

    1. Re:Linux Ubuntu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry Jenny, I've helped many a new user or "newsie" as we technologically indelible Floridans like to refer to it as.

      First step is to remove the brassiere. Not your shirt, just the brasserie. The dangerous metal supports conflict with the linux shield generator's frequencies. Thats a classic "newsie" mistake.

      Next get a nice drink of melonaide flavored beverage and spike it with your choice of vodka. Linux is Scandinavian in origin and is designed to only obey its own. to be double sure, gram some fussy moose head slippers and put those on too.

      Next, put the Install cd under running tap water to remove the pesticides and dry with a lint free cloth. I'd recommend getting only organic optical media, but there aren't many computer farmers markets in many areas of the contry so I understand if you have to make do with the ones you can get at your local store. Keep a hold on that lint free cloth, you'll need it later to wipe your hard drive.

      Now we are really ready to begin. Insert the cd and start the computer at a temperature of 345. The secret to Linux is that it was designed by right handed people who understand the true evil of the leftish liberals. Never click the left button, if given a choice between the two.

      Ubuntu is a fairly easy varietal of Linux which should accent hearty pastas and shell fish. The installer should direct you through the maize of contradictions to the centaur. Defeat him with the brass sword and Linux will be installed as viceroy of your computer.

      I hope that helps, if an extended state of confusion persists for 4 or more hours it may be a sign of a serious medical issue, please consult your witch doctor or shaman

    2. Re:Linux Ubuntu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ummm..., yeah. Are there any normal people here who can help me, please?

    3. Re:Linux Ubuntu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, are you really serious? My apologies. I thought you were an intelligent guy intentionally posting a naive question for the purposes of generating serious responses for his enjoyment. You really did come to the wrong site.

      At the risk that I was actually correct and you are a "troll" ....

      Word and excel are not operating systems. They are applications.

      You have to download the Ubuntu ISO file and burn it to a cd or dvd with a cd/dvd burner. Then you just stick the cd in and boot off the cd. Its pretty easy from that point on, but make sure you have any of your important data backed up. Choosing the easiest method of Installing Ubuntu will cause your entire computer to be erased: music, pictures, word documents, exel documents, powerpoint. Plus any other applications that you have installed will be gone as well.

      If you don't understand something, there are a series of tutorials on the web. Search for them on google. using a search term like " ubuntu installation tutorials"

      One such link, led me to

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhnLk3gviWY&feature=channel

      But at this point, I still think this is all a meta joke by a guy. So if you did successfully troll me, bravo. But the tricks on you, I just got to first base. I think. I never did understand baseball or women.

      If you are seriously looking for help on Ubuntu. I apologize again for the above juvinile humor. Thats the only way I can post this and still feel good about myself. Its okay to fall for a practical joke as long as you laugh at yourself as you fall.

    4. Re:Linux Ubuntu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, thanks I guess. Sorry, but I don't know what any of that means. I put in the CD he gave me and nothing happens when I try to run the program. This guy told me to install it myself and he gave me this site and a Mac link and said someone would help me. I figured I was doing something wrong by posting in a phone article, but I thought someone in here would be good with computers and help me. thanks.

    5. Re:Linux Ubuntu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, I hate to say it, but you're better off not doing it, if you can't follow any of the tutorials available. Furthermore, I'm not sure you understand what the consequences of installing Ubuntu are. If you already have a working computer, just stick with it.

      If you really want ubuntu, you'll have to find someone local to help explain to you what it is and help install it.

      I hope I'm not being too condescending, that can really be a problem on this and other sites, but you have to put some effort into doing this. If you don't understand a term, type it into google or wikipedia and search.

    6. Re:Linux Ubuntu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you've been pretty nice. I want to just go back to using Windows but it won't work. That guy from class put the Ubuntu disc in the hard drive and did something to it. It has a bunch of white words on a black screen when you start the computer. He said that that got it ready for me to install it and that I would learn by running it myself. I have assignments I can't do now. : ( Ok, thank you.

  24. The answer to this privacy invasion is data wipe by rsborg · · Score: 1

    My iPhone is set with a non-PIN password, which will wipe the phone after 10 bad entries.

    The solution, if you have recent backups, is to nuke the phone (entering 10 bad attempts) immediately upon being pulled over in your car... it would be nice if you could say, enter a "self-destruct" password and just do it with one go, but 10 is easily doable (10 blank entries, for example).

    It's sad we have to resort to these tactics, but it is wise if you have any even marginally questionable content or are worried about LEO corruption, to clean your phone as needed.

    --
    Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  25. Does not matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TSA will conficate your electronic devices next summer.

    If you refuse, you will be charged with committing an act of terror, and take a ride to a 3x3x3 ft cell at Gitmo.

    -308

  26. Data on the phone vs. data presented on the phone by swb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Let's assume for argument's sake that I'm stopped by the police and I'm arrested. My phone is unlocked and they start to search it.

    Are they entitled to data only ON the phone, or are they allowed to use an application on the phone which allows access to data stored elsewhere on the phone?

    In theory, an email client setup for IMAP doesn't store data on the phone -- messages are retrieved from the server. This glosses over caching, butassume the device could be setup to NOT cache messages locally (or background erase them after N seconds/minutes), the data isn't "on the phone" it's only being *presented* on the phone.

    My vague understanding of searches when arrested is that proximate searches are OK, but with an always-connected network device, what's proximate, especially if (like almost all IMAP clients, even ones with very limited caching) there's no perceptible difference between data that's local and data that's on some server somewhere else?

    Is the limit some dump of flash (and RAM, if they could do that)?

    And why stop at smartphone application data? What if I have an RDP or a SSH/telnet app on my phone that gives them access to dozens of machines (which, in turn, may ALSO offer dozens of machines)? Are those remote systems, because they can be accessed as if local, also eligible for a search?

    I guess what's scary is that it's not hard to see a slippery slope where anything the phone allows them into they have access to.

  27. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

    then they get you on 'destroying evidence'.

    citizen: ANYTHING you do can be construed as a violation of SOME US law. there are over 10k laws in the US! we are all breaking the law 5 times a day, at least, technically.

    (this was done on purpose. when you are always able to be arrested, it keeps the population 'in check'. ie, afraid to speak up.)

    --

    --
    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  28. Computer tresspass laws applicable? by StoopidMonkey · · Score: 1

    Ok, say an arrest has been made. The phone/device is confiscated and the officers are able to log in. Stored passwords also let them log into your facebook account, your email account and let's say your work computers via VPN/SSH. Once into the work computer, further searching of company records ensues. Let's even say that the officer sees some cool system and starts 'pushing buttons'. Does this qualify as computer trespass? My employer has authorized me to access these systems remotely, but not the officer. What if the officer took it upon themselves to download what he thought was evidence? Would that be theft of intellectual property? If said systems were damaged as a result and this were critical infrastructure, would the police department then be liable or the individual officer for taking it upon himself to 'search for evidence'?

  29. ssh and rdp to vitual linux system by unlocked · · Score: 0

    Thats why you just use the smart phone for a ssh terminal or rdp to a virtual machine that is encrypted.

  30. VME by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A guy in a online forum was trying to tell me that he had fully encrypted a andriod phone with VME Encryption with it's insane bit keys. I called BS on him at the time saying it would render the phone to the speed of pouring molasses on the north pole, but he claimed to have done it with out even bricking a phone. Sooooo we'll have that to look forward to soon?

  31. how would they know? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would be rather tough for them to notice, let alone prove, that there was any more data there than what they found.

    1. Re:how would they know? by gknoy · · Score: 1

      I imagine it would be very odd to see a smartphone with a completely stock srt of data on it: no calls made or received, no texts sent, etc. That would make me VERY suspecious if I were looking at someone's phone.

  32. Re:Data on the phone vs. data presented on the pho by pin0chet · · Score: 3, Interesting

    To my knowledge, no court has addressed that particular issue to date. Professor Adam Gershowitz argues in his 2008 UCLA Law Review article http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1084503 that courts addressing warrantless cell phone searches might consider distinguishing between data that is stored locally on a cell phone and data that is accessible via a cell phone. The rationale for such a distinction is rooted in the notion of the "immediate grabbing space" which police are allowed to search incident to arrest.

  33. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    then they get you on 'destroying evidence'.

    How can it be destroying evidence when you're not even suspected of a crime for which that is evidence?

    Furthermore, the device would have to have a wipe record, as this wipe method doesn't (AFAIK) require network access and doesn't leave a trail (BICBW).

    Look, I'm as paranoid as the next geek, but I think the legal crowd needs to convince me there is precedent of the "destroying evidence" charge in this case.

  34. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 2

    Have you actually tried this? I just did. I intentionally biffed the passcode 6 times and it locked the phone for 1 minute. After the minute was up I intentionally biffed it again. It then locked the phone for 5 minutes. I did not bother to complete the experiment.

    You can't get rid of your data that quickly. It makes sense. Otherwise some joker at work could get hold of your phone and cause you instant grief for the rest of the day.

    --
    http://www.rootstrikers.org/
  35. Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Parent said:

    If you look at the text of the fourth amendment, it requires probable cause, not a warrant, a warrant is only a confirmation by a judge that there is probable cause.

    FTF Constitution:

    Amendment IV

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    The "probable cause" part is qualifying when a warrant can be issued. So the amendment not only doesn't leave a warrant as optional, as you say; it rather assumes warrants to be a central part of the process.

    And what happens if there is no probable cause, and so a warrant can't be issued? Well, let's check the fucking constitution:

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated,

    1. Re:Seriously? by krazytekn0 · · Score: 1

      again, read your quote, no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, it does not say that no searches shall be made without warrants. A search with a warrant is presumed to be reasonable. A search without a warrant (minus other mitigating factors i.e. the search theories I was talking about) is presumed unreasonable, that presumption, however, can be overcome by proving that there was probable cause at the time the search was conducted. It's a right against "unreasonable" searches and seizures, not against warrantless searches and seizures. Just to reiterate, there's no language that requires a warrant for all searches and seizures, it just says that warrants won't be issued without probable cause. The requirement is that all searches and seizures be reasonable.

      --
      Not all life is cyber. Extra Income
    2. Re:Seriously? by krazytekn0 · · Score: 1
      And a third thing

      FTF Constitution:

      Really?! Don't refer to my Constitution like that you jackass

      --
      Not all life is cyber. Extra Income
  36. Why Would I Want One Of These Things Again? by rally2xs · · Score: 1

    In addition to all the other downsides, like having to switch to a particular carrier, and the regular drawbacks of cellphones that you supposedly can't use 'em anywhere in public 'cuz it might annoy someone, or in the car 'cuz the state believes we can't walk and chew gum at the same time nor drive while talking on a cell phone, we now have to worry about the state tromping around it looking for something - anything - to try to hang us with it. Maybe I have a single phone # in my address book for somone who turns out to be a criminal, so I end up sharing the same cell with the guy 'cuz the cops can make a case out of anything. Hey, Mel Gibson is now going to be charged with hitting his girlfriend, whether she's maybe lying or not, mostly 'cuz a lotta politically correct righteous individuals who never had a wrong though don't like him because of his views and beliefs. Odds are, he didn't do a D thing. But I bet he ends up in the clink. Shoulda gone back to Australia while he had the chance.

    I have the simplest, cheapest phone you can imagine - doesn't text, doesn't GPS, doesn't do anything but 1 single thing, and that's make and receive phone calls. I think I'll keep it.

    1. Re:Why Would I Want One Of These Things Again? by dotwhynot · · Score: 1

      I have the simplest, cheapest phone you can imagine - doesn't text, doesn't GPS, doesn't do anything but 1 single thing, and that's make and receive phone calls. I think I'll keep it.

      Good for you. For me, going back to non-smartphone would be the same as going back to desktop PC without Internet connection. Yes, it can still do what it was originally was meant to do (and no worry about being tracked). But I do enjoy what this new functionality makes possible. Like reading Slashdot on the subway :)

    2. Re:Why Would I Want One Of These Things Again? by rally2xs · · Score: 1

      No subway here - I'm single, so if I'm traveling, it means I'm driving. Making a phone call, or taking one, is about all I want to do with a phone if I'm driving. And I know I could never text and drive without runnning the car up a phone pole or worse. Maybe someday they'll make a smart phone that will text via some electrical contacts on the machine, where I can plug my ham radio morse key paddles into it, and send the letters that way. Receive the message via morse or voice translation. But reading from the screen, or texting on keys while driving, I'm not _that_ good...

  37. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by phoenix321 · · Score: 2

    Here's the argument from the article again, we all break the laws several times a day without knowing, but the police know and will put us all in prison or worse for crimes we didn't commit or for things that shouldn't be "crimes" in any non-fascist society.

    This accusation of unjust incrimination for everyone and everything is the crucial difference between the Police and the Gestapo, yet no one bothered to name a single situation, example or proof, where this could happen.

    If there are 10.000 laws in the US which everyone is breaking 5 times a day without knowing, it shouldn't be that hard to name a few so us average Joes can learn to avoid breaking that law in the first place and/or organize a petition to get rid of them.

  38. Rooted android by brunes69 · · Score: 1

    If you have a rooted Android and your own kernel you can make the base filesystems anything you want, included AES encrypted loopback. It takes some doing, but anyone who knows how to do it in linux can do it in android, it is just a bit of a hassle to do so.

  39. Resisting arrest by kennykb · · Score: 1

    You were arrested for public photography. Oops, public photography isn't against the law. Sorry, our bad. But you resisted by putting your face into our fist, so now you're guilty of resisting arrest.

  40. Shouldn't searches be illegal without a warrant? by master_p · · Score: 1

    Shouldn't searches be illegal without a warrant? I thought that we are innocent until proven guilty. Is there a specific law that allows searches without a warrant?

  41. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    citizen: ANYTHING you do can be construed as a violation of SOME US law. there are over 10k laws in the US! we are all breaking the law 5 times a day, at least, technically.

    (this was done on purpose. when you are always able to be arrested, it keeps the population 'in check'. ie, afraid to speak up.)

    So why doesn't the US government use this fact to mop up all suspected terrorists/undesirables/commies and chuck them all in jail, then re-arrest them as soon as they come out, rinse and repeat?

    Possibly because it's utter bollocks?

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  42. This is why I'm going to full-disk encryption by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    I'm putting full-disk encryption on all my machines (or all my portable machines at the very least), to keep my files private in case of physical seizure by law enforcement. All my machine backups except one are already encrypted.

    There have been some attempts to hack full-disk encryption onto my current PDA (N900, the OS requires heavy modifications to pull it off and it sort of breaks USB Mass Storage mode) but my next PDA MUST support it out of the box.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:This is why I'm going to full-disk encryption by kalirion · · Score: 1

      Obligatory xkcd

      (if you think it won't apply to cops, you're being naive)

    2. Re:This is why I'm going to full-disk encryption by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      I know, but using encryption at least keeps open the option of not giving up all my information.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  43. meego by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    one reason why i'm (still!) waiting for decent meego phones is exactly this... i want a dmcrypted phone, kthxbai :)

  44. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by Thing+1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Laws are written vaguely, with the express purpose of "keeping us in line"; if we fear that we're breaking the law constantly then we will behave better, I guess, or more cynically, "Find me six lines from the most honest of men and I will find something in there to have him hanged."

    --
    I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  45. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by Shawn+is+an+Asshole · · Score: 1

    If there are 10.000 laws in the US

    There are well over 10,000 laws in the US. Last year alone over 31,000 laws were passed across the country. In 2009 over 40,000 new laws were passed.

    which everyone is breaking 5 times a day without knowing, it shouldn't be that hard to name a few so us average Joes can learn to avoid breaking that law

    Well, there are some books on it (both of these are on my to-read list):

    Three Felonies a Day: How the Feds Target The Innocent

    Go Directly to Jail: The Criminalization of Almost Everything

    in the first place and/or organize a petition to get rid of them.

    You think they really care about petitions? It is very difficult to repeal laws and scale back power.

    --
    "It ain't a war against drugs.it's a war against personal freedom" --Bill Hicks
  46. The link in the article by sarbonn · · Score: 2

    The link in the article, "how you can safeguard your smartphone" actually has zero information about how to safeguard your smartphone. It's all about explaining why you should, not how.

    --
    Sarbonn's blog: http://www.sarbonn.com/blog
  47. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by zoloto · · Score: 1

    there's a setting to erase the data after 10 unsuccessful attempts. just keep it away from the kids :P

  48. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't forget that Apple put that functionality there, so if someone wanted to go far out there, they could say Apple is an accessory for destruction of evidence. Almost doubtful this would ever happen.

    In reality, for most people, it isn't the cop on the street or the guy handing over tickets on the interstate to be worried about. The people to worry about are the crackheads who manage to find a way to boost phones, hand them to a fence who has some forensic equipment, the fence pulls out any relevant data, and if it is juicy enough, then tell a local gang when and where to do a burglary or home invasion, or pretend to be the individual and text friends on the address list they could meet them in a seedy area.

    As for the iPhone: One thing that makes setting a 5+ password easy is the fact that if you enter all numbers for the PIN, when it comes time to unlock it, you get the PINpad, not the full keyboard, making it a lot faster to enter it.

  49. Re:Shouldn't searches be illegal without a warrant by davek · · Score: 1

    Shouldn't searches be illegal without a warrant? I thought that we are innocent until proven guilty. Is there a specific law that allows searches without a warrant?

    It goes like this:

    • You are arrested for loitering. The police have the right to search your person to make sure you have no weapons and are safe to put in the police car and turn their backs on you.
    • During the search, they find a mobile device, which could contain weapons or otherwise cause trouble with the arrest, so they take that.
    • A recent ruling in California has now stated that they police can rifle through all the data in your mobile device without warrant, because it constitutes items in "plain sight" (at least I think that's how the ruling went). Similar to if you invite the police into your apartment and they see a bloody knife, they can use that evidence against you in court even though they never got a search warrant.

    This hasn't been tested by the supreme court, and I'm almost certain if there is an unlock password on the phone you are under no obligation to give it up unless ordered to do so by a judge (even then it's a bit iffy).

    But I'm not a lawyer. I just watch Law & Order and read slashdot.

    --
    6th Street Radio @ddombrowsky
  50. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

    Here's one example. If I go down my usual highway faster than 55, I'm speeding. If I'm slower than 60, I'm obstructing traffic.

    --
    Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
  51. Reliance on tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some time ago, in my country, even criminals didn't care about what they talk on anonymous prepaid phones because police wasn't equipped with anything. These days they get caught using those unless they're very careful.

    Before, the police used to work without listening to phones. Now they are are lazier, relying on tech instead on other means.
    With internet (and apps such as RedPhone!) today available on any phone, the pendulum will again shift to unability to listen to conversations that "matter".

    Phone networks were always designed with ease of eavesdropping in mind. Starting with GSM and IMSI-catchers, phones didn't properly authenticate the cell tower.
    Also, encryption could never be properly done apart from tower-phone communication. This is in part a consequence of how gsm voice compression works (i.e. chips that compress/decompress it are in both tower and the cell, so passing encrypted data to them doesn't work). But not that the compression couldn't be done on both ends by phones.

    And even today, neither providers nor manufacturers dare to provide the encryption ability through data transfers, at least not officially (as said, check out RedPhone; it offers same thing as commercial crypto phones).

    The reason are governments - even when 3G was designed, authorities made sure that such thing can never become part of the system. But at least they killed off the IMSI-catcher hole, as it could as well be used by criminals and hobbysts.

  52. Encryption for Windows Mobile and Windows CE by gr8dude · · Score: 2

    There is a program called SecuBox, http://aikosolutions.com/ it creates virtual encrypted disk on Windows-powered handhelds. You can keep your sensitive data there, in encrypted form.

    Your phonebook, SMS and other data are still kept in the phone using regular methods though. On the bright side - at least you get to control where your files are kept.

  53. Android Privacy/Security by astro128 · · Score: 1

    Okay so my Samsung Epic (Android 2.1) doesn't support full disk encryption... what is the next best thing that I can do? Any app suggestions? And please don't tell me to get a Blackberry or don't use a smartphone.

  54. Phones have same issues as laptops by Sloppy · · Score: 1

    A phone is roughly about as likely as a laptop, to be stolen or lost. Just ask the Apple employees who bring their prototypes to bars. With portable things, shit happens to a greater degree than with desktops and their tangle of cables that have 'em effectively anchored to your desk (at least losing that requires malice).

    So if you have sensitive stuff on it, then you already knew your phone was a risk. You dealt with this question before you even had a "smart" phone.

    The cops and lack of warrants stuff is interesting, but doesn't change the scenario. Even if SCOTUS reverses the warrantless search decision, not everyone who steals or finds your phone is subject to constitutional limits on government. And even if you think that government is the only threat (there are no common criminals or nosy people, the world is full of 100% good people from 1950s TV shows) then imagine someone finds your phone. Obvously they're going to hand it over to the cops for 30 days so that you can go get it back. So now the cops have a reasonable expectation to go poking through the phone anyway just to try to figure out who to give it back to, so there ya go. Ignore all the legal issues here; none of them end up mattering, from a security standpoint.

    I found it strange they left out the N900 when talking about how to deal with the problem, since that phone is probably the most capable thing on the market, being able to use the tried and true solutions that people have been coming up with over the last few decades. People shouldn't talk about this tech only in terms of the toylike stuff that throws away all our experience, while ignoring the state of the art. If your phone can't encrypt, don't worry, your next one will.

    My main worry about phones is that the usage scenario demands (?) convenience but having a user enter a reasonably high-entropy key is usually going to be inconvenient. I don't mind entering a passphrase when I turn on a laptop, but I'm used to being able to dial a phone without going through bullshit. Maybe we'll end up with some kind of partitioning, where lots of capability is available to "guests" but people sometimes login to do a little bit more (mount certain encrypted volumes), so people have to decide when to cross the inconvenience barrier or not.

    The "virtual combination lock" picture looks silly; if there's enough entropy in that, then it's either going to be hard to reliably reproduce, or the users are going to be going through a very amusing performance. Long term, the key will probably have to be biometric. Or maybe a physical key (but I don't think so). These won't protect you from law enforcement or violent criminals, but that's not an interesting threat model anyway -- once someone has you then your throat is the topic rather than your phone.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  55. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 1

    That is with that setting enabled.

    --
    http://www.rootstrikers.org/
  56. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by spire3661 · · Score: 1

    A couple of people have mentioned co-workers messing with phones. If someone at work touches my phone they are going to get a nasty talk from HR. Are we in high school here?

    --
    Good-bye
  57. Re:Data on the phone vs. data presented on the pho by neonfrog · · Score: 1

    If your email is proximate to you via this phone, regardless of network mechanism, then it is proximate to them. If you can "grab it immediately," so can they. Anything you have immediate access to could have been used to commit the crime you were arrested for. If there is a bomb procedure you were referring to in your email on your phone, regardless of network delivery mechanism, then it is proximate to them precisely because it is also proximate to you. Seems simple, really (when things seem simple, I'm usually missing something). I don't necessarily like it, but it is logical. I can easily hear a Supreme Court Justice asking their "obvious" questions on this topic: "Was the smart phone with them when they were arrested? Was there any reason to suspect the phone might have been used to facilitate the crime they were arrested for? Does it really matter, on a network protocol level or other digital machination method, how the phone may have been used to facilitate the crime they were arrested for?"

    --

    I'm thinking about it, therefore I might be.

  58. Re:Data on the phone vs. data presented on the pho by ironjaw33 · · Score: 1

    The rationale for such a distinction is rooted in the notion of the "immediate grabbing space" which police are allowed to search incident to arrest.

    The long arm of the law, indeed.

  59. Re:Data on the phone vs. data presented on the pho by swb · · Score: 1

    It's frightening, because it's very easy and -- at least on the face of it -- desirable to be able to access anything from my iPhone -- Evernote, dropbox, email accounts, SSH, RDP sessions, much of it is *right there*.

    I totally agree that prosecutors and the cops will sell the idea that proximate access makes for proximate data.

    I guess if I was defending this, I'd ask the judge if during a proximate search my keys were found, does this give them probable cause to search every place those keys open, even though the places in question are not physically proximate?

    I suspect we will lose more freedom on this issue, but I think they might require prima facie proof that the data was being accessed during the arrest, or make prima facie evidence that the data was not being accessed during the arrest and affirmative defense against the search.

    We may also see more apps supporting secondary passwords or requiring passwords to access data every time the user wants it and not caching it locally or purging the cache very quickly.

  60. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by lgw · · Score: 1

    Oooh, a nasty talk. That'll fix em. Why, if they keep messing with you they might get a sternly worded note!

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  61. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So why doesn't the US government use this fact to mop up all suspected terrorists/undesirables/commies and chuck them all in jail, then re-arrest them as soon as they come out, rinse and repeat?

    Possibly because it's utter bollocks?

    They eventually filled the jails, build lots more and over filled them too and the trend hasn't stopped, even though we have the largest percentage of people in jail. So what's utter bollocks?

  62. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

    Aren't there any signs?

    Speaking about Germany, we have nothing BUT signs, usually several dozen per kilometer, several hundreds, if in inner city areas.

    Sure there isn't any sign anywhere?

    Can you get the next policeperson handing you a ticket to also write down the correct legally prescribed and 100% ticket-safe speed and sign it for you?

    Have you tried driving 58? Getting tickets for both, driving too slow and too fast at the same second will surely yield extreme comic value but is also front page material. (Look at you GPS on a level road to do exactly 58 and then use cruise control to keep it)

  63. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

    [citation needed]

    Sorry, but the article and so many other posters had similar broad accusations, but only one wrote actual links to actual events - in that case LEOs from Maryland prosecuting people for using their cellphone cameras in public to record public actions of officers on public duty.

    All other posts were just repeating the message "be wary, be afraid, the cops are out to get you". Being physically unable to commit "driving while Black", may have spared me this sobering experience.

    So, what *laws* are written vaguely and how can the express purpose of keeping the rabble in line be proven? Posts written vaguely with the express purpose of "keeping us guessing" won't help.

  64. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

    I really do care about petitions. And ballots, and jury. And that what follows.

    But arguments from books still on the to-read list will not convince me it is time to panic.

  65. secure sms by cool_arrow · · Score: 1

    While I haven't used the product I think the idea behind this "turbosim" app. is good for securing sms messages : http://www.bladox.com/doc/sec_ed_ug_en-2.pdf It is based on Sim ToolKit (STK) which runs on all modern GSM phones. Basically, your SIM can have apps. on it but only big biz gets to put them there (banks etc). This thing gets sandwiched between the legit SIM and the phone. The security editions' encryption uses Shneier's Twofish algorithm (128 bit). I didn't see the product on their product list but the guy who sells them says to include a note and he'd load the security apps on the sim before shipping. Never got around to it though.

  66. So this is democracy, right? by quickgold192 · · Score: 1

    I like how when the police get the power to search our phones our first reaction is "encrypt our phones!" not "tell our police force they're not allowed!" After all, they work for us, right?

  67. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

    Citation: the book "Three Felonies a Day".

    --
    I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  68. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the cops ever decide they need to read my e-mail, texts, etc. they'll read a boat load of grocery lists, hunny-do messages, and the occasional "Dad! I need picked up @...."

  69. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

    I've got maybe 10 comments relating to that single book, no excerpts, no examples.
    Is it that hard to write one clarifying sentence?

    Has everyone put this book on the to-read-list like some other poster, spelling doom and gloom from a book he's not even started to read yet?

    Don't people write what everyday thing is illegal because it's also illegal to tell people what the laws are or is it because it would be a tacit admission of guilt because it is something that many people do but still know full well it is illegal as heck?

    I'm starting to suspect there's only one law that's bothering everyone or else they'd bombarded me with a flurry of cases where their liberties are truly trampled upon.

    Even the professionally-made educational YouTube videos on how to handle everyday police encounters best through knowing your rights were all touching this topic. ("Flex Your Rights" and others)

    Really, I guess when most people cite the "10.000 laws that no one knows but everyone crosses 5 times a day" without telling any of them, they mean only ONE law that EVERYONE knows and only THEY cross 5 times a day, but can't tell anyone. The Controlled Substance Act of 1970. "Possession, use, trade of Marijuana is illegal"

    Prove me I am wrong.

  70. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

    Read the damn book. You asked for a citation, you got one.

    --
    I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  71. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by phoenix321 · · Score: 1

    "Doom impending for the uninformed. Read the book to know and be prepared."

    Now where have I heard that argument before?

    Apparently all the guys who voted for 3 stars on Amazon thought the same and were missing the same.

    "The book is supposed to be about: "the average professional in this country wakes up in the morning, goes to work, comes home, eats dinner, and then goes to sleep, unaware that he or she has likely committed several federal crimes that day.[...]

    The book gave some anecdotal stories, but did not do a good job in supporting the statement about "the AVERAGE professional," and as we all know, the plural of anecdotes is not data. [...] I would rather have seen some evidence that everyday activities are crimes.

    I guess no one here has read or remembered more of that book except a few anecdotes and a general uneasy feeling.

    Or it really is just about the weed in the trunk.

  72. Re:The answer to this privacy invasion is data wip by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

    Again: you asked for a citation, and I gave one. WTF.

    --
    I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
  73. just learn from britain's law ... by ista · · Score: 1

    See here for some recent case where a 19 year old was sent to jail for 16 weeks for not disclosing his password to the police.

    So, the US has just to copy some lines from the UKs "Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000" and police will be fine.
    First, you'll be temporary withheld for whatever reason, then you'll be arrested for not disclosing your password.