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World of StarCraft Mod Gets C&D From Blizzard

eldavojohn writes "If you've been following the team who created World of StarCraft (an amazing mod of StarCraft II to be more like World of Warcraft), their YouTube video of what they've done so far has already resulted in a cease and desist from Activision/Blizzard. Evidently when you are given tools to make custom mods to games you should be careful about making something too good. The author of the mod is hopeful that it's just a trademark problem with the name of his mod, but few reasons for the C&D were given." In other StarCraft news, reader glwtta recommends an article about how a Berkeley team won the world's first StarCraft AI competition with code that can beat even pro-level human players.

25 of 227 comments (clear)

  1. I miss Blizzard. by seebs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I remember back when Blizzard was an awesome company with great customer service. Well, that, and when the gamers buying their games were the "customers" they were so great to.

    That Activision merger seems to have totally killed the company we used to know. Not that this is totally surprising, mind you, but it's sad. I would guess that this was a matter of the Blizzard company officials not being paranoid enough to check the fine print in their merger deal. Either that, or they were ready to cash out.

    --
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    1. Re:I miss Blizzard. by Pojut · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm sure the Activision merger had a lot to do with it, but I think the rampant success of World of Warcraft has inflated their ego. The way they released Starcraft II content leading up to its release was done with a tone of "Feast your eyes on yon game! We, Blizzard, have made it, and therefore it is good!"

    2. Re:I miss Blizzard. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Actually, if you read the EULAs surrounding Stacraft 2 map editor, you'll notice that ANYTHING you make becomes property of Blizzard. This jackassery was not unexpected.

    3. Re:I miss Blizzard. by seebs · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't think so. I was a WoW player for about 5 years, and they were great about dealing with the community and addressing concerns until a couple of months after the merger. After that, they started doing stupid things about privacy and security on a pretty epic scale; see, for instance, the "Real ID" fiasco.

      And before everyone jumps in with "they backed down!"...

      1. They said in an interview shortly later that they weren't doing that "for the time being". In English, "won't X for the time being" means "will X, but not yet".
      2. In fact, the new forums did display your real name on the screen when you logged in. Just your name, not anyone else's (yet), but... Plain text over the open internet? That's real smart.
      3. They still (last I heard) haven't added any capacity for aliases or handles to the "Real ID" thing.
      4. They still use your login name as your key for inviting people, making it much easier to crack accounts than it used to be.
      5. All of this directly contradicts statements Blizzard had made about privacy or security prior to the merger.

      Net result, I went ahead and wrote to privacy@ and told them to delete all my personal information, because I no longer feel I have justified confidence that they will not, at some unspecified future date, decide to show real names to anyone and everyone. Went from 3 active subscriptions to no chance of ever buying from them again. Very, very, slick relationship management, there.

      I used to know at least a dozen people who played WoW. Now, no one I know who has any kind of security or law background, or even a basic IT background, plays.

      --
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    4. Re:I miss Blizzard. by quanticle · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I remember back when Blizzard was an awesome company with great customer service. Well, that, and when the gamers buying their games were the "customers" they were so great to.

      What timeline were you living in? Blizzard has been known to be quite hostile to modders and independent developers for some time now. Just look at the original map editor for Starcraft. Look at what they did to bnetd. Heck, I'm surprised to no end that the makers of bwapi have been allowed to continue with the project, given that the project relies on hacking the Starcraft client via DLL injection.

      --
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  2. When you see something like this... by ducomputergeek · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...a smart company with plenty of resources like Blizzard/Activation should be saying: "Hey, you guys want a job?"

    --
    "The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
    1. Re:When you see something like this... by Pojut · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Who do you think they are...Valve? :p

    2. Re:When you see something like this... by locallyunscene · · Score: 4, Funny

      In unrelated news Valve has put out an offer to an unnamed independent team to help work on an upcoming also unnamed SciFi Action MMORPG...

  3. Re:They better... by AndrewGOO9 · · Score: 3, Funny

    They'll get to it, eventually I'm sure. Blizzard: Your children will love the sequels you grew up waiting for.

  4. Re:They better... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Funny

    We don't have to care: We made World of Warcraft.

    Hugs and Kisses, Blizzard.

  5. As for the Starcraft AI... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The AI article was quite interesting, on all the various techniques that they had to use to avoid hardcoding exploitable behaviors and use heuristics to obtain desireable emergent behaviors. Fascinating stuff.

    Disappointingly, though, the punch line boiled down to "We discovered a tactic that is functionally unbeatable if you have superhuman micro and aren't handicapped by starcraft's(sorry fans) frankly shitty interface". Much of the most interesting AI work was them allowing their team to survive long enough to build the unbeatable mutalisk swarm, along with a little bit to build a threat heat map and a target value map to guide the swarm as it picked the enemy apart.

    Essentially, mutalisks' virtues were "balanced" by the fact that their range sucks and they tend to clump, which makes them easy meat for AoE AA attacks. It turns out, if your micro is inhumanly fast, you can break and reform the mutalisk clump fast enough to avoid most AoE attacks while still achieving concentrated fire on high value targets.

    1. Re:As for the Starcraft AI... by chemicaldave · · Score: 5, Informative

      Having programmed an AI for that same competition, I can assure you that nobody should be surprised an AI can beat a human.

      You can find a list of the rules to the competition here. One thing to notice is that there are some glitches that are permitted. Having an AI that can control and make decisions for each individual unit almost at the same time (not really at the same time, the AI still has to go through steps and issue commands sequentially, but it's so fast it might as well be same time) means the AI has a HUUUGE leg up on even the best Starcraft pros whose actions per minute only range in the few hundreds.

      All you need to beat a human is to program in strategies that just need the speed of an AI to execute

      And if you want to watch some good micro-managment, on that website you can view the final matches between AIs in each tournament here.

    2. Re:As for the Starcraft AI... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      True; but things like Valkyries and whatever the Zerg AoE aircraft is were introduced in Brood War as a counter. Apparently, with the APS provided by an AI interacting through an API, you can even outrun those.

      Since the competition was AI vs. AI, and the Berkeley guys cleaned up, they obviously deserve kudos; but it is arguably a weakness of Starcraft's design that such a lot of it revolves around high-speed micro. The AIs just make that more blatant.

  6. Re:ummm by magnusrex1280 · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's Starcraft II that they modified - to play like World of Warcraft.

  7. Re:ummm by Pojut · · Score: 3, Informative

    Nope. They took the tools included with every copy of Starcraft II and used it to make a World of Warcraft-style.

    A better analogy would be: they were given a bunch of Legos, then were smacked for putting them together to make the Lego logo.

  8. Re:ummm by Patch86 · · Score: 4, Informative

    No. Read TFS, if not TFA.

    It was a mod for Starcraft 2. They were making a mod of Starcraft 2 with serious RPG elements (all of which is perfectly reasonable, given the tools that are available) and named their mod "World of Starfcraft" (for obvious reasons).

    If the cease and desist is just because their mod name was too close to that of an official Blizzard product, I'm sure this will be a non-story and the mod will continue with a more original name. If the C&D was just because Blizzard don't want RPG elements to be used in a mod for their strategy game, that is some serious arse-hattery,

  9. Geez, is everyone a baby? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Following the link, no copy of the C&D letter. So we have no idea WTF is going, just the incoherent ramblings of a developer who is whining about not allowed to have anything good. Apparently he e-mailed the tech support department for clarification....

    It could be as simple as the legal department scouring the web for the name "Starcraft" - not even knowing there is a tool out there to build mods.

    Bottom line, we know nothing at this point. No need to pucker up.

    1. Re:Geez, is everyone a baby? by commodore64_love · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I agree with Anonymous Coward.

      (and the earth cracks open beneath my feet). Personally I'd ignore the Cease-and-Desist since I'm not doing anything wrong. The Company provided the modding program, thereby giving me permission to do whatever I please with it. They cannot later retract that permission as it would violate consumer laws (I paid; they disabled the product; I was ripped-off).

      --
      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - historian Evelyn Beatrice Hall
    2. Re:Geez, is everyone a baby? by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, but you are wrong. If Disney sold a coloring book, you couldn't take that, color Mickey, and then make 10,000 prints of that and sell them as "World of Mickey" without some trademark issues, even if no copyright issues exist. And without seeing the license for the modding program, you aren't qualified to assert that you did get "permission to do whatever you please." So, have you actually read the license, or are you making up things you think best support your point without regard to the truth?

    3. Re:Geez, is everyone a baby? by snowraver1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He's not selling anything. Also, Blizzard itself would facilitate any transfer to other players, as designed, through battle.net. It would be like if Disney sold you a coloring book and said that anyone with a coloring book can copy their coloring (using a Disney approved photocopier) to give to their friends. But then this guy comes along with a Mickey coloring that is better than the real Mickey, so Disney is all in a huffy, and they are all like "I'm taking my photocopier and going home".

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  10. Code beating human ain't a surprise... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem in the RTS genre is that there's *way* too much emphasis put on micro-management. When I write *way*, I really mean **wwaayy** or something like that (jokes welcome).

    The fact that so much emphasis is put on micro-management instead of strategy leaves the door to a great many hacks/cheats and also make it easy to write AI beating even top-notch players.

    Bring us RTS where the 'S' means something. A lot of people would love it.

    Btw, I was highly ranked on Case's ladder at Warcraft II but not in the top 10. Yet my rank was due to me outsmarting my opponents using real strategies. In Warcraft III it became much harder if not impossible (besides a few cheap builds that get rendered useless by the next anti-imba-patch anyway and that anyway aren't "strategies").

    So yup, please, bring back the 'S' in RTS...

  11. Your memory betrays you by orthancstone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is the same company that stomped on people over Starcraft LAN tools long before Activision got in the picture.

  12. Wrong link. by chemicaldave · · Score: 4, Informative

    That was the wrong link to the result. For a better summary go here.

  13. Here we go again... by kamelkev · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So apparently they already had his demo yanked off of youtube, and the above linked youtube video is just a repost - so they are taking it fairly seriously.

    I am always amazed on how little forsight is put into legal decisions like this one.

    Why don't they just hire the guy, and let him run with it. He clearly has the skillset they are looking for - he made the entire app, demo and produced a bulk of materials by himself. Sounds like he deserves at least an interview with them...

  14. Re:ummm by muffen · · Score: 3, Informative

    From TFA: Update: Activision Blizzard has sent a cease and desist notice to YouTube in order to remove the videos showing off the mod. According to various sources, Blizzard's intention is not to stop the project itself, but to protect their properties names, whether they plan to work on a "World of Starcraft" game in the future is anyone's best guess.