Slashdot Mirror
Anniston, Alabama To Censor Employees' Facebook Pages
ISurfTooMuch writes "If you're a city employee in Anniston, AL, you'd better watch what you say on Facebook. Under a proposal being considered by the City Council, employees would be banned from posting anything 'negative' or 'embarrassing' about the city. Note that they aren't talking about official city pages here, but employees' personal pages. Anyone care to educate these clowns on the existence of the First Amendment?"
They're not passing a law, they're making rule of employment. You want a job with us, you don't badmouth us. That's perfectly reasonable, whether a private or public employer. If an employee doesn't like it, they can quit. It's that simple.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
The First Amendment doesn't protect you from this.
If you want to be employed by the city don't talk bad about your employment. You don't have to work for the city.
It's not unusual for employers to have a "don't disparage the company" policy in the employee manual.
I'm not saying it's right or fair but it's not new.
This reminds me of this story, where a teacher who appeared on the Howard Stern show for a contest (ugliest guy and hottest wife) was fired for it. It seems that the state has no problem firing people they don't like.
This is far from a settled issue; there's a lot of complicated case law wending its way through the courts.
Facebook is both stupid and distracting on so many fronts. I sincerely hope that more companies and agencies take this approach. And if the account is PRIVATE...instant suspension.
Mark Zuckerberg...you are filth promoting filth.
A lot of companies seem to be doing this sort of thing. Though facebook entries are almost always about someone's life outside of work they are public posts so it is in a vague area where it isn't actually part of the person's private life and thus tends to get censored this way.
You are free to say anything you want, and free to feel the consequences.
Folks on the private side can get fired for not following a companies PR policies on even non-defamatory public comments (usually translated to mean that anything you say publicly about a company while employed there must be approved first). Public entities are a little different, and are covered by different laws, but the general rule stands that bad mouthing the hand that feeds you is not smart.
Whistle blowing for real grievances, safety issues, and illegal acts are a different story, and it is unlikely that laws such as this preempt whistle blowing laws.
People can just focus their rage on the *expletive* *expletive* *expletive* good for *expletive* *expletive* city council.
*expletive* those guys.
It's generally understood that you don't badmouth your employer, even if you work for the government.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
At-will employment:
"[A] doctrine of American law that defines an employment relationship in which either party can break the relationship with no liability, provided there was no express contract for a definite term governing the employment relationship and that the employer does not belong to a collective bargaining group (i.e., has not recognized a union). Under this legal doctrine:
“any hiring is presumed to be "at will"; that is, the employer is free to discharge individuals "for good cause, or bad cause, or no cause at all," and the employee is equally free to quit, strike, or otherwise cease work."
-kgj
it's Alabama people.... the First Amendment there is second to the right to close-mindedness. Rule of employment my ass, as a public job position the only rules of employment should be drug free, citizen and free criminal record. That state is as a whole against BIG GOVERNMENT.... I guess only when it doesn't suit their need
Their town's name can be pronounced "Anus-Town". Of course they're going to be thin-skinned.
I think its about time city officials officially get paid to browse facebook during business hours.
Now if they could just find some reason to keep their farmville farms in top shape while monitoring other city workers crops.
if you worked for XYZ and kept screaming profanities about XYZ all day every day, you wouldn't expect to work there long
posting stuff online is like screaming that stuff out in public
post bad things about your employer online, don't expect to work there long
what's the problem? you obviously have a poor attitude towards your employer so clearly they're better off hiring someone less the attitude.
It's never a good thing to see my home state on Slashdot, let alone my home town.
I have to say, I don't like this policy. One is not generally supposed to badmouth one's employer, but badmouthing one's government is patriotic and should be encouraged. That's how things get fixed.
1) Don't put tons of personal information that can completely identify you.
2) Don't put your face on your page.
Anyone care to educate these clowns on the existence of the First Amendment?
First Amendment allows you can say whatever you like, with few exceptions. It does not, however, protect you from being responsible for the consequences of what you said. If you are badmouthing your employer on a publicly visible page with your name attached, you are committing career suicide, regardless of your employer. They can either get rid of you, or make it miserable for you to maintain your employment. If you must vent, do it offline, or privatize your page and be sure you don't have co-workers as "friends". That's being responsible, and shielding yourself from these consequences so many forget about.
and this place sucks a seriously huge bag of dicks. Wait, they only monitor facebook right?
-- http://www.criticalassets.com
When I come home at the end of the day, I have every right to say what I want about whomever I want. If that means I say something that could be potentially damaging to your reputation..... well, you shouldn't have been doing such a B.S. job to begin with. Your money is NOT hush money.
.. they'll never actually fire someone for badmouthing the city - they'll just terminate your employment.
I'll never understand why people thought giving companies the ability to fire for "no" reason was a good thing - all it does is let them fire you for *any* reason (legal or not)
Somebody explain to me again how Facebook guarantees the name you sign up for a Facebook account with is your real name and is traceable to your employer. Because you know, anybody stupid enough to use their real name when criticizing their employer probably should be fired for having bad judgement!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
But these are city employees, not people working for private companies.
This isn't really a first amendment issue. You have the right to free speech. They (potentially) have a right to fire you. Fortunately for the employees in this case, unlike Texas where I live, Alabama is a right to work state which would prevent the city in this case from firing an employee for personal comments unless they exposed internal state affairs http://www.nrtw.org/c/alrtwlaw.htm. IANAL.
Physician: heal thyself.
No, I don't mean the Smirnoff joke meme.
So you're telling me that basically if the USSR or China or North Korea had made their censorship be just rules of employment, that would override any freedom of speech concerns? I mean, you couldn't even be employed other than by the state, or as member of some "association" (e.g., a kolkhoz) which was also run by the state and presumably also within its rights to set its membership rules.
It seems to me like forbidding someone from badmouthing the government or its representatives or decision is exactly what freedom of speech was supposed to prevent. Or at least how most of the world understands it.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
I say, how dare you sir! Defaming the fine town of Anniston by implying it was in Alabama.
If the City is afraid of someone airing dirty laundry good. They should be; they are accountable for their actions. If they are afraid of the one or two nut jobs out there making a bad name for everyone else, say so and let it work itself out. Something like, "The comments of employees are in no way a reflection of of the City of Blah." Rights are not something easily "un-eroded"
I think if you were hounded by the paparazzi as much as Jennifer Aniston, you might have a different take on the issue.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
Jennifer. But somehow it didn't match up with Alabama. Besides why is she reading my FB anyway? /tinfoil
I agree. If the contract covers that area allowing them to terminate your job because of such incident then I guess it's perfectly valid for them to do so.
No one is prohibiting you from breaking the terms of that contract but you'll face the agreed measures afterwards.
disclaimer: didn't RTFA.
"Science can amuse and fascinate us all, but it is engineering that changes the world. " - Asimov.
I've never been there, but I'm sure Anniston, Alabama is a dump.
There. Now, since I'm not an Anniston, Alabama employee, all sides should be happy.
sic transit gloria mundi
They are extremely lenient in Chinese standards. We could use them here, really.
Here in Oregon, a teacher attempted to bring her concealed handgun to work - where work was a public school. She was told she wasn't allowed to, even with a concealed handgun license, because of a school district RULE against it.
It had already been established law that Oregon's Concealed Handgun License allows holders to carry in schools, as schools are public buildings.
She lost her case. By signing the employment contract, she gave up that right. If she quit her job, she would re-gain the legal authority to carry concealed in the school. But as long as her employment contract forbids it, it is enforceable.
Similar situation. This isn't "the government censoring a private individual", this is "an employer enforcing behavior on an employee - where the employer just happens to be a governmental entity."
It was slightly farcical. We argued that it was nothing defamatory and fair commentary. The next day, the entire department posted 'Company X's Media Policy is a joke' as their status.
Of course, if they tried to monitor Slashdot comments, the entire IT department where I work is going to be looking for a job on Monday.
Oh, and another thought. I think it is amazing that we have gone so far down the PC (political correctness) trail that somewhere along the way we forgot how to listen, argue (as in illustrating a point), and resolve issues. Anymore it is a competition of who has the biggest equipment, who is paying the bills, who your friends are, or what organization you belong to. Management (the City in this case) should listen, the employee(s) should be encouraged to argue their grievance, more listening and then a mutually beneficial solution should follow. Not always of course, but at least that should be the goal regardless of sex, creed, affiliation, and all those other things we are not supposed to judge one another by; even though everyone does.
Send all your embarrassing and negative info about the city government to Wikileaks or Openleaks.
make imaginary.friends COUNT=100 VISIBLE=false
If you think government employees can't get fired for talking smack about there employer go ask someone in the armed forces what happens to them if they call their boss an ass hat. No free speech issue here it's pretty much a standard clause in any employment contract.
The real question may be legally is Facebook public or private. There's a lot of grey area there.
And rather than deal with the fallout of admitting and fixing whatever the cause of the negative comment was, the City Council would rather make sure no one with direct knowledge can talk about it.
Probably something to do with someone paying someone else they're also exchanging bodily fluids with, is my guess.
All conjecture that I can engage in because I'm not talking about where I work...God help us if the companies keep merging until they're all one company and no one can talk shit about their employer anywhere.
The Invisible Hand of the Free Market is what punches workers in the nuts.
"... employees would be banned from posting anything 'negative' or 'embarrassing' about the city."
Indeed. It is clear from this incident that only City Council members are permitted to exercise their right to embarrass the city.
...we were jealous of his wife.
Want a job? Give Bozeman your Facebook, Google passwords
Read more: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10268282-38.html#ixzz1CwfHmlTm
The Constitution??? That's just too liberal!
(If you are unfortunate enough to live in Alabama, the above would be funny)
The Internet has given stupid people the resources of intelligent people.
There must be lots of exciting stories to tell that if they so scared that anyone will publish anything. Send it to me, I'll publish. I'm not their employee, never been there, dont know where it is, and never heard of them, but now I want to know all about their dirty business!
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
If the Fed. had passed a law like this when the Democrats had power, we probably wouldn't have lost it, because all the Republicans seeking re-election would have had to have been honest and cordial. That would have been awesome.
If you work for Sprint, you better watch what you say online. Several people I know have already been fired for comments on the Facebook page.
It's a good thing "abc3340.com" doesn't count as "a social networking site", or else the City Council would have violated the "Don't Embarrass Us On Online Social Networking" rule already.
MSIE: The world's most standards-complaint web browser.
If I was charitable, I'd suggest that the city fathers of Anniston, AL are merely uninformed of the rights of individuals employed by Federal, state, or local government. The right of redress with regard to elected government overrides PITA public employees bellyaching.
If I were uncharitable, I'd suggest the city fathers of Anniston, AL are radical "tenthers" who think that the Constitution only (and significantly) restricts the power of the Federal Government, rather than the states or locales. If true, I hazard the opinion that they're mistaking the US Constitution (and subsequent case law) with the Articles of Confederation (superseded by said Constitution as of March 4, 1789).
Luke, help me take this mask off
That's nothing I heard of a teacher who wad terminated for having a picture of her drinking wine on FB! courts ruled that it was setting a bad enable and tha mt although it was legal teacher are to be held to a "higher standard".
Right now someone should sue for attempting to violate their rights.
with a big time law firm.
What ass hats.
Everyday i am more ashamed to be American.
Except of course unless the contract is invalid for some reason, say violating the US CONSTITUTION.
How does it violate the US constitution? (If that's what you're implying)
Have you ever seen how restrictive Disney contracts are? Or, for that matter, any contract that involves a celebrity and a brand.
Are the contracts unconstitutional if they can't do a certain amount of things or face the fines/whatever?
"Science can amuse and fascinate us all, but it is engineering that changes the world. " - Asimov.
Employers are free to impose any conditions they want upon your employment. They can require that you allow your bags to be searched on entry. They can forbid you making personal phone calls. They can ban personal Internet usage. They can even forbid you possessing firearms on their property, and forbid you disclosing any details about your employment relationship with them.
You are there to work for them, not to enjoy your personal life on their dime.
The biggest problem, of course, is interpretation.
Just exactly who decides if what is said is "Bad Mouthing?"
The extreme examples are real easy.....
"This place sucks and every one is corrupt" = fired.
OK Free Speech not withstanding.
We all know that there are supervisors who would interpret
"Like Today Totally sucked at work"
as "This place sucks!" and start disciplinary procedures.
It only gets more vague from there.
I hate the "Slippery Slope" fallacy. I do see valuable employee
fired because the supervisor wants to fine SOMETHING that
they can use to exercise their power.
Willy
Always Remember: If Cass Elliott gave Karen Carpenter half of her sandwich, both would be alive today.
No hour on a horse is ever wasted. Winston Churchill
Let the mayor of Anniston know what you think of his town's stupidiy: citycouncil@annistonal.gov (from http://www.ci.anniston.al.us/mayor/ )
I live just outside of Anniston. The local paper. the Anniston Star, runs stories on the city council several times a week. It's awesome entertainment, Believe me when I say that the Anniston city council is a complete joke. One of the council members stated that the reason they want to trample on the first amendment rights of their employees (and understand that this is just not about posting on Facebook at work) is that comments made on Facebook could embarrass the city. Which is completely ridiculous considering the City council has been the #1 source of embarrassment for the city for a couple of years now. The last couple of months they have been conducting an "inquiry" at tremendous expense, apparently on the general subject of "bad stuff" that's going on at the city, But it's really about the ego of one council member who was not happy at the results of an investigation conducted by the police department and who was also attempting to punish a police officer who criticised the council member on Facebook, as well as take revenge on a judge who ruled against him.
The mayor and the various council members fight and argue like school children continuously. One of the council members files multiple law suits based on idiotic grounds. In their "inquiry" they have issued subpoena after subpoena, many of which are quashed because they're so damn ridiculous. This latest issues regarding Facebook is just one in a long list of laughable shenanigans perpetrated by the council. Honestly, a reality show based on these people would be awesome and would be the one reality show I would watch. You wouldn't even have to edit anything, just broadcast the council meetings live on Comedy Central. The truth is far more hilarious and amusing than any group of video editors could conjure,
FAQs are evil.
Being able to say how you feel about your employer and government is a privilege, not a right. What's wrong with you people. They pay you money and allow you to live, you should be grateful; not want to talk bad about them, and if you do you should be punished for abusing your privileges. /trollolololololololol
The first amendment allows you freedom of speech. It does not allow for you to act without consequence. If you bad mouth any employer and they find out you should expect to lose your job. Freedom of speech is not freedom to be an idiot.
Use an alias online instead of your real name, don't post or allow posting of pics with you in them, don't access it from your work computer, and deny everything if they manage to figure it out anyway. In a world full of people and companies that don't give a rat's ass about your privacy, you have to be pro-active about it.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
If I paid taxes in that town, I would be sort of pissed off that the town officials were spending time on something like this, so I wouldn't call it perfectly reasonable.
Completely pissed, actually, I think is is illegal indeed. A municipality is not a corporation. Taxpayers are not the clients of the city, they are the owners of the city. City Hall and the Mayor are not the owners or bosses of the city, they are the employees.
Public servants have not only a right but a *duty* to tell other citizens what is happening in city hall, anything at all, especially in case anything is wrong. Unless there is some justifiable reason for security or secrecy, everything should be public information and discussed very openly.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
Easy solution is to establish the demarcation line and hold fast. Don't friend coworkers and the boss on Facebook just network them on Linkedin. Then how will my employer know if I bash them or not? If they get into what I say to a private group then that is overstepping the relationship.
For every benefit you receive a tax is levied. - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Heflin, Heflin, Heflin.
If the City Council embarrasses itself with bad decisions, comments or actions.... Vote them out, spread the word by what ever means possible to let every voting taxpayer know whats going on. Everyone knows employees have the best inside information, blow the whistle on these idiots, tell everyone and if they cross the legal line, Lock them up. Vote the City Council out, Impeach them or Arrest if they violate the law.
Right on! Our rights are given to us by our "Creator" and are "natural rights". The government is supposed to protect those rights. The U.S. Constitution is the guarantor of those rights. Freedom of speech will prevail as long as patriots stand up to these fascists!