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Tech-Unfriendly Cafes Say No Kindles Allowed
theodp writes "At the risk of pulling-a-Groupon, I have a dream that one day my children will not be judged by their e-readers, but by the content of their character. The NY Times' Virginia Heffernan complains that many indie New York City cafes now heavily restrict, or ban outright, the use of Kindles, Nooks and iPads. Evidently, she says, too many coffee shops have had their ambience wrecked when itinerant word processors with laptops turn the tables into office space. Full-dress computers are one thing, says Heffernan, but banning devices the size of books is going too far, and it's anathema to the character and history of cafes. By contrast, Starbucks offers free, one-click, unlimited wireless service to their patrons, making it in Heffernan's eyes 'a flawed franchise that is squarely in the public good.'"
Those cafes are quite free to ban eReaders, iPads and the like. Whether it will actually be enforced is another question entirely. Even if the management comes down hard, there is nothing stopping their customers going elsewhere.
I know this is difficult, but if you don't like it, don't patronize the place there.
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"First things first -- but not necessarily in that order"
-- The Doctor, "Doctor
That's not the point.
I don't believe in time. It's a grand conspiracy designed to sell watches.
To summarise the article: indie cafes bad, but on the First of Some Month Starbucks will give you free internet for as long as you want. Not "a major chain of coffee houses" but STARBUCKS.
How much was this person being paid to plug a company's offerings?
...am far more likely to go somewhere which bans all this junk. It's like passive smoking, except being surrounded by pretentious jack-offs with unnecessary toys is painful to my mental health.
There's a reason why the chairs in a lot of restaurants are uncomfortable.
They want you to eat and leave. Thank you for your business, please come again.
As long as they ban books, magazines and other reading materials that's a good policy - I hate going to my local coffee shop for a quick drink and snack only to find that half of the tables are taken over by 3 person study groups who pushed 4 tiny tables together to make room for their books and papers, or rows of people on their laptops (some working, some just idling browsing the 'net, and that guy in the corner browsing porn).
But to ban a Kindle or Nook just because it's electronic seems like a stretch -- browsing is not a joy on either of those platforms, so it's not like someone is going to be spending hours answering his work email. Though he may spend hours reading an eBook, just like he would do with a paper book if he didn't have a Kindle.
Now, I'm not saying I doubt that there are cafes banning such devices. But cafes -- especially indie establishments -- have a long history of having their individual, quirky policies. Is this one or two cafes that have banned said devices, and only said devices? Have the cafes in question banned all extended table-takeover "loitering" (for whatever that means in such a place)? I just find it rather difficult to get worked up over a post with so little information behind it. (Ok, a small amount of info on cafe history... but without the present situation clarified, what good is that?)
where I could use my soldering iron and dremel. Also, the walls would be lined with component and fastener bins.
Imagine, people just maybe reading paper books, having good conversations with friends, being on dates, or just soaking up the smell of roasted coffee and the light perfume of the pleasant woman in the sweater next to you. No clickety-clack, no heads down and eyes glued to a screen, no thumbs frenetically moving over a tiny unearthly rectange, more people over 60 feeling at ease and not alienated, etc.
Nothing wrong with full-on hardcore technology style cafes, either. It's just a choice.
I can understand people wanting to avoid the sound of spiders scratching behind earbuds, or bright flashing colours in the corner of one's eye but why ban silent, monochromatic book replacements? This sort of café sounds to me like a gathering place of pompous poseurs (possibly goateed) sat there with tattered - by their previous owners - copies of Milne spouting neo-luddite claptrap.
Here endeth the rant. If these places want to alienate paying customers then that's their right; it's just a shame there probably won't be another article on their inevitable going out of business. Of course, collecting all this sort just makes it that much easier to avoid them, so I'm at best ambivalent about the whole thing.
P.S. I figure if the only source is a paywalled opinion piece then it shouldn't count as news...
If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
If they don't want these people hanging out, why go to the trouble of luring them in?
If it's made clear before I parted with money for a drink that something non-obvious is prohibited, then I've no problem at all - I can simply take my patronage elsewhere.
If it's only after I've bought a drink and sat down to read that I'm told, then I'm likely to be less impressed, but, at the end of the day, it's not really something I'm going to worry too much about - at worst, if I really do need to read something, I can walk out.
Since I tend to get a bottle of water, and maybe something to eat, I probably haven't lost much either, since I'll take them with me, but I could understand why someone who's not using a takeaway cup might be loathe to leave their (often expensive) coffee behind, but, I do try not to get riled over a few pounds if I can avoid it. Life is too short.
I wish Starbucks would do this to some extent. I had to quit frequenting a local Starbucks, when a group of 4 friends and I would always meet on a couple of times of week to drink coffee and eat pastries, and the last 5 times we were unable to find any seating. All the tables had been taken over by assholes who thought it was their right to setup their home offices there. To make matters worse I never saw 1 Starbucks cup or plate on any of the tables, so those assholes were nothing more than freeloaders showing no respect to the business or anyone else around them.
I told the manager that I know there is nothing she can do about it, but it has become quite clear that her store has been hijacked by low-life freeloaders who probably will have their UPS packages addressed to that place at some point.
I have never been back there.
I'd wager it's not the device... or the table space that a laptop takes up... It's way more physical than that...
It's about CHAIRS and WIFI.
No one wants to go sit in a coffee shop and when you get there, there are no seats because people have 'set up shop' and are there for the long haul. They want you to enjoy your coffee, and LEAVE. Same goes for WIFI. What once was a sales feature to get you INTO the store: Free WiFi, is now something that KEEPS you in the store, but doesn't make any more money for the shops. How many people drink cup after cup of coffee the entire 2-3 hours they're sitting there? nope. they got one $2 cup of coffee, and then tie up the seats and the wifi for hours. And their WiFi is probably over taxed because of it...
Books don't consume WiFi, and most people don't read a book for hours.
-- You can't idiot-proof anything, because they're always coming out with better idiots.
An editorial complains about some coffee shops in New York which have taken to restricting the use of devices which the management feels might bother patrons. The editorial suggests that it would be better to return to 16th century conventions wherein coffee houses became forums for loudly expressing disaffection and dissent.
In other news, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak has resigned and handed over power to the military, ousted by a historic 18-day wave of pro-democracy demonstrations by hundreds of thousands of Egyptians who demanded his removal.
Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
I've done the whole Sit In Costa Writing My Book On My MacBook thing, not out of pretense, but just because I write well in that environment.
And then one sunday, I walked into the same costa, and every- EVERY single table had at least 3 laptops on it, with school kids on MyFace and trailing charger leads to wall sockets.
I turned around and walked out, not wanted to be part of that horrific sight.
I think it's okay to have one or two laptops in a coffee shop, but it really can get excessive, and then it makes the shop a place to avoid.
Personally though, so long as they're not making noises, I don't see the harm in portable devices (iPad, Kindle, etc...) -they're not nearly so invasive as laptops are.
Would it have been too much trouble for the author of the Times piece to actually name a place that is prohibiting Kindles? She managed to get in her Charbucks plug without naming any of the villains.
This story sounds so tabloid I'm a little embarrassed that it is appearing on /. I'd read the story, except I can't. So I have to assume she cited no actual examples and basically could just as easily be making the entire thing up. You read these stories ALL THE TIME, it is like the cancer story every other week or the "shock action by authority figure" story you see every day.
I bet you'd struggle to find more than half a dozen such places in all of New York STATE. Which, frankly, makes for an entirely non-event. I'm sure you can find just as many private clubs that don't let a certain gender or sexual orientation in at all...
It used to be that people would hang out in diners and Perkins to read the paper, drink coffee, etc... Then kids started coming in with their fancy laptops and their wifi. What they hell do they think they're doing with their new fangled computer thingys!! So the coffee shops saw a niche, took advantage of it and dinners lost a lot of patrons... Now those kids have gotten older, and they themselves don't want kids coming in and annoying them... what are they doing bringing in those new fangeled tablets? Where's the keyboard?!? It's just not right! Get those kids outa here! These sorts of coffee shops will be on the way out the door as soon as the new "Hang out and show off my techno gadget" shop opens.
Coffee shops used to be about going to meet people, sitting down with a good cup of coffee or tea. Now, if my local Starbucks is any example, its a computer room. You can't get a table in my local Starbucks a few hours after they open because they are all hogged by laptop wielding customers. It really ruins the idea behind what these places used to (granted Starbucks ain't all that great for many people). Instead of hearing people talking, that background sound which shows life of the establishment, all you here is the click clack of keyboards.
Its not what these places were supposed to be about and those that forget it are quickly forgotten. Let someone else have the boring tech crowd - it is silly how they just congregate to not talk.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I sort of understand the ambience argument regarding laptops. I live in Montreal and we have a lot of these want-to-be New York style cafes. Some of them are nice and I would understand a ban on such things. However, the kindle/e-book thing is simply an economic manoeuvre as many have said above.
I'm going to be living in Vienna for a year and I was reading up on their coffeehouse culture. I was surprised to find out that, while the drinks are way over priced, it is expected that you only buy one and stay as long as you want. The waiter even comes around periodically and fills/refills a glass of water for you. Even if the place is full, you are never made to feel like you have to leave. The mentality behind this is that you are a guest, and therefore, deserve to be treated as such. It could be true that this is also only a economic manoeuvre (if people are respected they will come back, word of mouth, etc.). However, it seems to just be an old tradition that hasn't changed.
There was a time you went into a cafe and talked to the person next to you... today there is starsucks and immitations, where you pay 3 times the price, have your coffee in a stupid plastic can instead of a real cup. There is no service.. no you have to stand in the line to get your coffee.. and well everyone who is in there has his earphones on his head and talks on facebook with the guy who is 300 miles away from you.. instead with the guy who is just around. I'm with the artilce. I'm from Vienna, we enjoy centuries of coffee culture.. and I'm against those people with there electronic devices... cutting them selfs of with those plugs in there ears... beleaving being at starsucks is cool....
Iris Cafe (Facebook): First, the good news! Fall has brought everyone back to the neighborhood and the cafe is bustling with customers old and new! Sadly, this means we are no longer able to offer wifi/computer use at tables. We understand that means some of you will have to go elsewhere, but we hope you'll come by for a coffee or a meal when possible!
My favorite haunt turns off their WiFi feed when the place is packed. This seems like a reasonable compromise. They post this policy for all to see.
Of course any cafe has the right to put up whatever gizmo restrictions they want, and to hope they still get enough business. What surprises me is that this establishment chose to ban books. People have been reading books in such places for generations.
Oh. Just e-books.
Yes. Well, clearly, that makes sense.
Their business, their rules. And hardly anything new. Victoria's Secret loves it if I bring in my wife...not so much if I bring my video camera...
Who would go to Starbucks for the coffee? That wouldn't make any sense.
It's all about having an easy to find meeting place, the free wifi, and getting a sugary sweet cream based drink in a to-go cup. Was Starbucks ever about the coffee?
The only people i know that own e-readers are the kids that go to those indie coffee shops (and a few nerds). That is like banning scarves. Or pants that are to tight. Your pants must be this loose to enter...
Our forebears, men like John Quincy Adams, worked tirelessly until slavery was extinguished. - Michelle Bachmann
Maybe people reading history textbooks should get a pass and be allowed to read. There seems to be some need. I get the attempt at humor and any and all politicians are fair game. But perhaps Bachmann did something few expected and actually made an accurate historical reference.
FYI. I am pro historical literacy not pro Bachmann.
"Adams was elected a U.S. Representative from Massachusetts after leaving office, the only president ever to do so, serving for the last 17 years of his life with far greater success than he had achieved in the presidency. Animated by his growing revulsion against slavery, Adams became a leading opponent of the Slave Power and argued that if a civil war ever broke out the president could abolish slavery by using his war powers, a correct prediction of Abraham Lincoln's use of the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863. Adams predicted the dissolution of the Union on the slavery issue, though he mistakenly predicted that if the South became independent there would be a series of bloody slave insurrections.["
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Quincy_Adams
I can see how an Ipod could irritate other patrons or how people blabbering into cell phones can annoy those around you, using public transport on buses in London for example can really be annoying when people have their ipos on full blast for everyone in the bus to hear (I've actually seen people playing music off the cell phones without any headphones and everybody was rather irritated righly so)
However what harm does a kindle do to other patrons ? Its no different from a physical book. If the coffee shop owners dont like
kindles they may as well ban traditional books too, I dont see any difference. Often thats WHY i go to a coffee shop - To rea
I love this idea! If I was a millionaire, I'd be looking for a good storefront in a nice area right now, have my lawyer doing the paperwork, sign shop making the signs... what a great idea! :)
Sadly, I don't think there are enough tinkerers around anymore to make such a store profitable. We are relatively few and far between, much too scattered to make such a place viable... people would have to travel too far to get there.
What I envision would be more like a combo of Panera Bread, Starbucks and Radio Shack like it USED TO BE in the 1970's (but with today's tech!) and instead of regular tables and chairs, feature workbenches with a small pull-out extension for the coffee & food. :) (We don't want the coffee spilling onto the workbench!) You'd have a food counter, and a parts counter. Basic stuff, like resistors, would be free. Other parts like 2N3904's, small caps, PICs, etc. would be only pennies above the bulk cost of DigiKey or Mouser.
Now, to add to the appeal of the place, a rapid-fabrication PC board shop in the back, with reasonable prices. Upload your CAD specs, and then pay with a credit card... your PC board will be ready by the time you order that 2'nd cup of Joe. :)
Willie...
I have gone out for coffee several times with co-workers and friends and have wanted to grab a cup of coffee and socialize. You go into the coffee shop and you notice immediately laptops everywhere and people with piles of paperwork taking up entire tables with cords running to electrical outlets. In addition to the mess and the space they are taking up these people have LOUD rude phone conversations so that everyone in the entire store can hear them. These people are completely oblivious that they have turned a place where people come to unwind and relax into a stressful office type situation. I have had to leave many coffee shops empty handed or go find somewhere else to sit with my friends on countless occasions.
These people are not making the establishment money and are just taking up space and driving away customers. Throw their asses out on the street. When wifi connected laptops were first on the market free wifi made sense because they were cool and there was a fun factor to it. Now that every corporate jerk in the world has a wifi card on their laptop and decides to setup an office in a coffee shop its really time to cut these services to protect other patrons. It has gone from a cute curiosity to an addiction for many people who are simply obsessed with being connected all the time. Force these idiots to pull the plug.
Personally I would do MORE business with a coffee shop that banned kindles, laptops and ipads. If I saw a sign like that I would open my wallet in support of them taking a stand for sanity.
You might notice that Starbucks, which is a wildly successful corporation, offers free WiFi and welcomes people to sit and play on the computer. Why is that? Well because the drinks and snacks are tempting to people. If they buy a drink and have nothing to do, they'll leave when their drink is done. Fine, and that result works for Starbucks, but it would be better if the bought MORE drinks. If they stay, there's a good chance they will do so.
Will they all do it? No, but then that is true of anyone who comes in. Some people will sit and talk, or read, or whatever and only purchase a single item. They are in the minority though. People like snacks and treats and when there's a ready supply, they'll usually partake.
It also isn't a problem really. The only time people using WiFi (or doing other things) and not leaving is a problem is if the dining area is completely full and there are customers that want drinks/food but only if they can enjoy it in the store. Otherwise, it is no problem. People in the store don't stop to-go orders (which are major business) and they also don't cause a problem when the place is less than capacity.
I guarantee you Starbucks can do the math and they've determined free WiFi makes them more money.
I know more than a few people who like to work in coffee shops when they get the opportunity. WiFi is a requirement since it is computer work. They don't go and refuse to buy anything, if they were just after WiFi they'd stay home. They buy coffee, soda, snacks, and so on. The whole reason they go to the coffee shop (other than just a change of scenery) is that they can get drinks and snacks.
What are you blabbing on about? They didn't ban "reading at rush hour", they banned Kindles.
Oh please, having a digital device like an ebook reader or ipad is no different than brining a newspaper, magazine or paperback book which has been done far longer than I have even been alive. It is by all means the owners right to ban whatever they want as long as they are willing to accept the consequences of their actions and not whine about it. I have a feeling this has far less to do with "ambience" than it does with not wanting to pay bandwidth bills and not wanting seats occupied for longer periods of time. Im just curious if pushing your business to "order and get out" will actually increase sales...I would bet not.
Your entire argument assumes that the largest coffee chain in the US can't do simple math. *$ offers free, unlimited wifi for a reason. What do you think that reason is?
Good question. But then, what's the reason they can blanket an entire city with dozens of shops, whereas a typical indie shop probably struggles with the overhead on one shop?
Maybe its massive economies of scale?
Maybe it is having a marketing budget that allows them to convince people to pay increasingly more for a lesser product?
Maybe selling their branded product in every major grocery chain brings n revenue that indies can't get?
Maybe it is the numerous deals they can cut with restaurants, hotels, airports etc.
If you really think that there is some simple math that shows that someone nursing $5 worth of coffee for several hours is a money maker, why not just tell us about it?
I'm more inclined to believe that wi-fi is a loss leader that is manageable as part a broader business strategy that does not apply to a local shop.
Kindle ban? Does the general public even know what the sign is talking about when they see "No Kindles"? I feel like a weirdo reading mine in line, never saw anyone else with one except on TV.
"Full-dress computers are one thing"
iPad, Kindle and Nook are all computers. Even my wristwatch is a computer. I don't know what "full-dress" computers are but I am pretty sure the author doesn't know the meaning of the word "computer".
How about a kindle sleeve disguising it as a (non e) book?:)
Here's a thought:
What if the coffee shop had on the receipt a one-time code that a user could use to surf with. So long as there were at least X free seats, let folks site around and surf. If a crowd shows up, push the Expired button for anything older than 15 minutes. Additionally, just prior to popular rush times, expire those codes. For all expired codes, replace their next click with a "Thank you for visiting, please come again! We need to make room for more customers." The codes that would be supplied during the rush times could be limited to 15 minutes.
Naturally this won't work with electronic book readers that store the book locally and don't need live Internet, and for those customers you could just politely ask them to leave after a reasonable amount of time. It's really no different than places with a no-cell phone policy. The sign only does so much, sometimes you have to ask the customer to hang up their phone or please leave.
Guess what, this might even bring in more sales, as someone would be required to make a purchase every 15 minutes during busy times to get more Internet access - or they might just leave and open up room for more customers - but either way it would be customers who had paid in the past 15 minutes who you'd give Internet access to.
is the Luce Center, where, in addition to free wifi, they have a special table set up for laptops. From Wednesday - Sunday they have FREE coffee and tea from 12 - 4 PM. Slightly off topic, but good to know if you are in DC.
When it's an unorganized community of innovative and prescient people either compelled by their own ideas or motivated out of necessity from predicament, not some calculated aloof me-toos who are presumptuously deriving contrivances from something they actually recognize (which may be their only truly valuable contribution) as brilliance. Sometimes people who can briefly awe you with hollow hyperbole can actually draw your attention to the truly worthwhile. Don't confuse that with marketing however, which strives to provoke desire combined with (manufactured or otherwise) mania into extreme stupidity.
Twinstiq, game news
> By contrast, Starbucks offers free, one-click, unlimited wireless service to their patrons
Not in Hong Kong, they offer just 20 minutes free, and then you have to pay or change your MAC address.
And in mainland China, Starbucks requires you to use your mobile phone to receive a SMS with a temporary password, effectively being accomplice of the surveillance apparatus (which associates your mobile phone with your IM identities and your online activities).
Maybe someone should open a "public office space" that has nice chairs and desks and serves lattes.
"Many indie New York City cafes now heavily restrict, or ban outright, the use of Kindles, Nooks and iPads."
That sentence should have been followed by the names of some cafes, and an interview with an owner. But no. So it's just blithering.
The Times is slipping.
peace. . .
Ka-click!
Ka-click!
Why is the Kindle's button so loud? Isn't it for "readers?"
These fools have somehow stumbled their way into ~$11 billion in annual revenue by letting people hang out and use computers. But, any day now, one of those Indies that knows more about running coffeehouses is going to blow them away. Caribou Coffee, with 451 stores, offers much better coffee than that unpopular junk sold in Starbucks' 11,000 locations.
It's really hard to know why anyone would think of emulating a business model as clearly as unsuccessful as Starbucks:
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Starbucks_(SBUX)
So take your Kindle and shove it where the sun don't shine, partner. We don't need your kind around here.
It makes no mention of which coffee shops are making such bans, and offers no other citations on the "issue". It's mostly a wiki-dump of the history of coffee shops going back to the 16th century. This is about the only article I could find noting this "trend" - from August 2010, a lifetime ago tech-wise. The main issue being that some shops banned "computers", either outright or during certain hours, with no differentiation between laptops, tablets, or e-readers (or smartphones for that matter).
It's a non-issue, a bump in the road. These shops, what few there are, will eventually adjust their policies. Nothing to see here, move along.
.
Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
Do like any other business that serves food & drink -- hound the loitering ones for "would you like another [xyz]?" every ten minutes. After a couple failed passes, politely inform them that paying customers would like to use the space. On the next pass, if they are still lingering, give them the choice: buy something now, or leave immediately. Not everyone taking up space for hours is a loss. Some are actually buying just as much as the short-termers. Just filter them out so you eject the bad customers without alienating the good ones.
Sadly, I don't think there are enough tinkerers around anymore to make such a store profitable. We are relatively few and far between, much too scattered to make such a place viable... people would have to travel too far to get there.
Integrated circuits were the death of the electronics tinkerer, and smart projects using Arduinos and other low-powered processors haven't brought them back in anywhere the same numbers, likely because of the perceived learning cliff of becoming a 'computer programmer'.
Maybe I'm not as good at the maths as you are, but I have a hunch any business that has 11,000 locations might be a tiny bit more popular than one that has 451 places.
If my math is off. please let me know.
Café ends with an acute accent on the terminal 'e' (traced from top right to down left like a slash "/" ), not with a grave accent like the one you typed (going from top left to down right; like an anti-slash "\" ). If you want to be pedantic about foreign words received spelling, please do it right.
I've YET to come across a coffee shop that embraces having WIFI at their establishment. It's like they just add it like decoration, and then whine and complain when there's a side-effect on how customers interact with the business. Here's some ideas:
That's just off the top of my head. Come on "indie" coffee shop owners, this is easy. Have your establishment embrace WIFI and the customers who want to use it! Please!
These are not "coffee" shops, they're "indie" coffee shops. Like "indie" everything they're not about the product they sell they're about the product they don't sell. If they tell people they can't do things there, their preferred customer base will want to come more.
That's not to say that starbucks coffee isn't crap, but most coffee in the US is crap, and I've been to more than a few of those sorts of places. They're selling ambiance and exclusivity with a side of coffee.
If the dickwad complains about you trying to sit down, tell him that if he answers his cell phone you'll punch him in the face.
Do it quietly so that if he complains, you can look bewildered and ask the police to take the crazy man into custody.
I recommend against actually hitting him in the face, unless he then takes a swing at you, and which time if you are properly trained, you can break his elbow and then steal his cell phone, throwing it in the garbage as you leave the premises.
Dickwads get no respect, only a beating if they continue to be obnoxious.
Shops exist for one purpose... to sell stuff and make money. Managers consider supplying guests with tables, bathrooms etc a cost of doing business. The goal for most managers is to get people in and out quickly. I could see how managers would consider sitting and reading a direct conflict with their goals. They certainly have the right to do this if enforced in a fair and consistent manner.
There is definitely a learning curve (cliff) to these newfangled toys. I learned machine language on the 6502 and the Z80 family of processors, and haven't messed with it since. Heck, I even did hand-assembly of some simple routines with pencil and graph paper in the early/mid 1980's!
I recently acquired two different PIC dev kits, and have barely done more than break the shrink wrap and start reading the manuals that come with them. It's a different world, for sure!
There is a Hackerspace here in CT, but it's a good 30 miles away. Sigh. Still, I am considering that I should plan to make a trip up there sometime, specifically when they are doing a presentation on programming/developing for PICs, so that I can learn something from someone who has been there/done that. I'm sure that there are vids on Youtube I could watch, but I would much rather have someone there that I can ask questions, AND have my hands on the gear.
Wow... I just noticed that this text editor is about as slow as Commodore 64 BASIC! Yeesh! :P
Willie...
Go work at a fucking desk. Honestly. Actually, first go fuck yourself, then go work at a fucking desk.
I despise the Apple-wielding coffee-infused hordes of pricks on corners around Seattle.
Wtf is an "indie" coffee shop?
I doubt it has something to do with Indiana Jones, which is what I thought initially.
Why can't coffee shops just be coffee shops like they used to be? A place to get some coffee and meet your friends or just chill - period.
For crying out loud.
We have a great one in my town. We call it the public library. Come in for as long as you want. Free wifi, comfy chairs, and good coffee.
Greetings and Salutations.
I have a nearby Panera's where I will go, with my laptop, and, hang out at a table. The fact of the matter is that I will end up buying more of their pastries, etc, than I would have if I had just walked in and had a lunch or a snack, because I am there for a longer period. Granted, Knoxville is much smaller than cities like LA/Frisco/NY, so, perhaps it is a worse problem there. However, I have observed that folks who use their computers are, generally, fairly polite about it. For example, I have seen several examples where folks that have been working at a table have packed up their computer and paperwork and such and headed out when the lunchtime crowd starts to show up.
As for the Wireless access, Panera's deals with that problem by limiting access to the Net to half an hour per computer between the hours of 11:00 and 14:00.
so, as long as folks are polite, I do not see this as a problem.
YAB - http://blog.beemandave.com/
Here in the Philippines, Starbucks either doesn't have WiFi or charges significantly for WiFi on top of the cost of the coffee. Mind you, the Starbucks here are run under a monopolistic license held by Rustan's. Personally, I go over the road to Seattle's Best Coffee, also owned by Starbucks that does offer free WiFi, or at least one hour's WiFi included in the cost of your coffee.
In summary, the comment in the article regarding Starbucks only necessarily refers to the US, though it may be true in other regions.
Despite emailing Starbucks Philippines, they have not deigned to explain why they choose to lose my coffee purchases rather than offer me WiFi, though the Starbucks here seem always busy regardless, so maybe they have no need to offer the incentive of free WiFi.
I can believe the Philippines demands a different business model than the States.
no time, no sig
People have a problem with the word "NO".. if a business such as a cafe bistro/restaurant has a no IPOD/IPAD/Kindle, etc.. policy, then fine by me. I won't go..
But I respect their policy.. I don't agree, so, I will go elsewhere.
It's the power of choice. It's an important one and ironically, we forget that.
While I'm not going, they don't get my money.
Now, if they have more than enough patrons to follow their rules and go anyways, good for them.
If not, well, they will lose business and market share to other "high-tech" friendlier cafes and life goes on.
Oh, please. You can't equate skin color (something you can't control) to choosing to take an electronic device with you.
No one is forcing you to bring in electronic devices. You can leave it in the car or in your bag or at home. No one is forcing you to patronize their establishment either.
Slow Down Cowboy! It's been 1 hour, 47 minutes since you last successfully posted a comment
I think you'd have a tough time with health code regulations in most cities as mfg pc boards is likely considered toxic stuff.
It would obviously have to be a separate facility, with just a common hallway to connect them. It could be done with a non-chemical process, such as a CNC machine, which mills away the copper. (Thus making recycling thereof much easier, since it would be virtually pure copper shavings.)
Boards would be washed in a non-toxic solution and placed into a "ziploc" bag for the customer to open. Perhaps they would have to agree to some kind of "disclaimer" in order to have a board made on-site? Let the lawyers figure that out! ;)
Why do they always have to spoil things, anyway?
Willie...
Guess what, this might even bring in more sales, as someone would be required to make a purchase every 15 minutes during busy times to get more Internet access - or they might just leave and open up room for more customers - but either way it would be customers who had paid in the past 15 minutes who you'd give Internet access to.
I would predict that a large portion of 'new' sales becuase of this would be a single item of the cheapest thing avaliable to buy. Still, better than nothing I guess.
So? New York City is one of the hardest places in the world to keep a business open. Just don't go there if you care about the bans. Trust me, either they'll lift the ban or their customers will keep coming and they'll keep it up. Find another cafe. Simple. There's probably another one a block down. If you can't find a cafe in New York that caters to your personality then you're lazy and not trying.
"By contrast, Starbucks offers free, one-click, unlimited wireless service to their patrons, making it in Heffernan's eyes 'a flawed franchise that is squarely in the public good."
Yeah. Pity about the coffee though.