Apple: You Must Be 17+ To Use Opera

An anonymous reader writes "From the techspot article: 'This week, the Opera web browser became the first non-native browser made available in Apple's Mac App Store. While Apple approved the browser, it still managed to hurt its competitor by putting this ridiculous label on it: "You must be at least 17 years old to download this app." Opera has reacted in good humor. "I'm very concerned," Jan Standal, VP of Desktop Products for Opera Software, said in a statement. "Seventeen is very young, and I am not sure if, at that age, people are ready to use such an application. It's very fast, you know, and it has a lot of features. I think the download requirement should be at least 18."'"

Comments

for the

[Anonymous Coward]

remote camera activation.

inevitable

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm 12 and what is this?

Re:inevitable

[f1vlad]

Must uninstall immediately, or else...

Re:inevitable

[daremonai]

None of your concern. Now go to bed!

Re:inevitable

[Anonymous Coward]

You're 12. Have you heard of Domingo, Carreras or Pavarotti? Didn't think so. Opera's not for you. Go back to America's Got Talent.

Re:inevitable

[countertrolling]

No dessert?

Re:inevitable

[Anonymous Coward]

If Opera is Pavarotti, then Safari is William Hung.

Re:inevitable

[bhagwad]

Uninstall is indeed a verb.

Re:inevitable

[Machtyn]

Oh, come on, give Safari some credit. IE6 is the William Hung of today. Safari is probably that "Pants on the floor" guy.

Re:inevitable

[TheABomb]

I nominate "outstall".

Re:inevitable

[davester666]

Yes, it's the stupid idea that you need to use the highest possible rating because the user might possibly surf for porn using the browser. Lots of apps have similarly stupid requirements.

Hell, Apple was requiring a dictionary app to have a 17+ rating because it had 'dirty' words in it (which they later lowered after more negative publicity).

Re:inevitable

[hduff]

I'm 12 and what is this?

Opera is an application for accessing adult things on the Internet like cogent arguments and reasoned thoughts. Not the usual Mac-versus-PC drivel that you Apple fanbois enjoy. Get off my lawn.

(Written on a Mac so I could be uber-snarky and cool.)

Re:inevitable

[Lemmy Caution]

whoosh.

Re:inevitable

[Darinbob]

When mommy and daddy love each other very much, sometimes they use other browers.

Re:inevitable

[Anonymous Coward]

You pedo!

Re:inevitable

[sabt-pestnu]

Until you've been exposed to it, a meme out of context is merely a non sequitur. It's a large world - internet - out there.

It should not be a sin, to not recognize a meme you've never encountered before. Thank you for your kind link.

Re:inevitable

[numbski]

I thought that was when they *didn't* love each other quite so much...?

Re:inevitable

[name_already_taken]

Oh, come on, give Safari some credit. IE6 is the William Hung of today. Safari is probably that "Pants on the floor" guy.

You're thinking of "Pants on the Ground".

The pants on the floor guy is something Apple feels you shouldn't look at unless you're over 17.

Re:inevitable

[Anonymous Coward]

Opera is an application for accessing adult things on the Internet like cogent arguments and reasoned thoughts. Not the usual Mac-versus-PC drivel that you Apple fanbois enjoy. Get off my lawn.

If you were to assign an age rating to the WWW at large for a parental control system supporting age restrictions, what age would you pick? This is no fanboy defense, this is a very simple, reasonable question.

A reasonable person would agree that 17 is quite liberal.

This is embarrassing for Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Behavior like this will backfire... always...

In the long run Apple will lose more because of this than they might have gained in the short run.

The big money needs to understand that fast, small profit will come at the cost of slow but huge loss.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, that just highlights how ridiculous this is. Opera is simply not big enough to be a threat to Safari's market share, warning label or not. However, they've now managed to make themselves look like assholes to thousands of people who would never have downloaded the app anyway.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[imthesponge]

Nobody in Apple's target market gives a shit about this. "Oh, I'd really like an iPhone, but they were mean and made Opera cry!"

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[Dishevel]

No they wont. Apple won't lose shit.
Their fanboys do not care. They want it white and cool looking.
They do not want a battery they can change. They do not want choice. They do not want flash, or anything else.
They want it to have an Apple on the case. They want an "i" something. As long as it meats those criteria Apple will still have the consumers that it dose currently have.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[Smivs]

Well I don't have Apple stock....can't speak for the other two people who have found the world's best browser by far.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet, since it is Apple doing this, and not the big evil Microsoft, the Slashdot Community will turn a blind eye and wave this flagrantly monopolistic garbage aside.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[SuricouRaven]

Scroll up. See all those comments condemning Apple?

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[anyGould]

Actually, that just highlights how ridiculous this is. Opera is simply not big enough to be a threat to Safari's market share, warning label or not. However, they've now managed to make themselves look like assholes to thousands of people who would never have downloaded the app anyway.

And I might just download it now, just to tweak Apple's nose.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[PitaBred]

Nope. But it will sure as shit limit the expansion of the target market. I'd consider an iPhone except for all the shit that Apple has pulled, as well as the deep tying of it to iTunes which is a flaming pile of shit.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[SaroDarksbane]

They want it white and cool looking.

Leave Vanilla Ice out of this!

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[stealth_finger]

Well I don't have Apple stock....can't speak for the other two people who have found the world's best browser by far.

You mean IE, right? /runs

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[SalaSSin]

No it won't limit the market.
Ok, maybe by MAX 10000 people... Wooooohhh, that's like a drop in the ocean, compared to overall iPhone sales.

Be realistic dude, the number of people that read these kind of articles (aka us and some other geeks/nerds/ IT guys with too much time on their hands / 2 or 3 girls) is very limited.

The target audience, aka the rest of the world, doesn't give a damn about Opera/Firefox/Android/Windows/Linux/bla bla.

They just want nice, shiny phone that is able to connect to "the facebook" and, and ...., well, and is nice & shiny...

This said, i hate their corporate policies as well!

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[amicusNYCL]

Nobody in Apple's target market gives a shit about this. "Oh, I'd really like an iPhone, but they were mean and made Opera cry!"

True, Apple isn't going to lose any device customers over this. They very well may continue to hurt themselves with regard to developer participation though. At this point I would never consider relying on Apple as the target platform for mobile software. I would target my software for Android, since I know it's not going to get banned for arbitrary reasons, and consider Apple's platforms as no more than a secondary market. If Apple decided to block my software I would still have a market to sell it in.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[vakuona]

You do realise that TFA is about the Mac App Store right? Not the iOS App Store!

You can still get Opera the old fashioned way.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[Luckyo]

Actually, mobile Opera is possibly the best browser on the market. It's much more lightweight then competition, at least as good, and has some very promising features that competition lacks. While it's possible that fanboy crowd wouldn't switch to a competing product, those who aren't fanboys likely will.

Hell, one of the reasons why "omg symbian browser sucks" argument is pointless from end user POV is because both opera and opera mini on that platform work wonderfully.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[randizzle3000]

As long as it meats those criteria Apple will still have the consumers that it dose currently have.

Aren't they mostly vegetarians? /ducks (tofu-based, of course)

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[praxis]

I have no idea if your number is accurate or not as you provide no data, but it does not seem you take into account that a geek who reads article such as these generally has the power to influence purchasing decisions for more than just him or herself.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[morgauxo]

Nahh...

They don't really want those things either. They just want someone to think for them and that someone is Apple. If Apple, or Steve Jobs (I'm not sure which it is the fanbois are so loyal to) were to decide that black is the new white, pear is the new apple and p is the new i they would dump all those unhip white apple oldster iX devices and wait in line that very day (all day) for their new shiny black pear pX devices.

Actually that would be a pretty good move on Apple's part. It would be much cheaper on the R&D than actually adding any features. It would get their fanbois to upgrade even faster too since those old white phones would stick out so prominently in the sea of black. No one want's everyone to know how uncool they are. Spouses would be embarrassed to be seen with one another. Singles would go to Starbucks and not get laid. Kids would go to school and get beat up because their parents sent yesterday's phone with them. Just look how well that strategy has worked for the clothing industry!

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[DinDaddy]

I had completely missed that. I'd mod you informative, if I had any points, since I can't mod myself with a duh.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[anonymov]

And it seems you didn't take into account that a geek doesn't have much influence outside the circle of geeks like himself. So even if we count occasional parent/sibling/high-school friend/a nice guy/girl from sales dept. number won't go all that high.

Anyways, cell phones, even smart- and smartish-phones, drifted from 'high-tech' to 'consumer electronics' now. If someone would go to his geeky friend for advice when buying one of those new cell phones 8 or 10 years ago, today he wouldn't, just like he wouldn't ask an advice when buying a fridge or an oven. He'd just go to the shop and ask for a phone with prettier buttons, icons and wallpapers, and iphone has lots of those.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[GameboyRMH]

I missed that as well.

Also now that you've pointed that out, this story is even more frightening...it looks like Apple wants to exert as much control over MacOS as iOS, and is showing everyone what's what right up front.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[camperslo]

It is probably a good thing that Apple bothers looking at something like remote camera activation as an issue to consider with minors. They're certainly not doing it for market share. It's not about greed. It should be possible to provide a store-friendly version of Opera that inhibits that functionality.
The browser can still be downloaded the old-fashioned way, so it's still just as accessible on the Mac as on competing platforms.

If people want to get excited over some Apple browser issue that actually matters, it makes more sense to work to give iOS users the same kind of control that Adblock and NoScript give in combination with Firefox.
Those wanting to trim mobile bandwidth usage certainly would be helped by such functionality, and it can't help but be a positive for security, speed, and battery run-time.

It's good to see that the Opera folks have a sense of humor. Between the toys people use these days, dumbed-down t.v. and living in an era where there's no fear of getting drafted, I think some of the articles about American males sometimes living a somewhat extended adolescent lifestyle may have some validity. If people want to protest, pick something that matters. Don't bury the important things with noise.

http://thebeautifulstruggler.com/2011/02/wsj-discussesthe-extended-adolescence-of-some-american-men.html

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[praxis]

I didn't claim to have the right numbers, only that influence was completely ignored. You now claim that influence is not significant, but I'd like to point out that you have no data as to what the magnitude is in order to make that assertion. Based on my small sample size of 15 geeks I've asked, influence seems to be about 2.5 other people on average. Now, of course the geeks are not making the decisions themselves, only influencing them, and I know not what coefficient to use to adjust for that. Nonetheless, a 10k and 25k is a large margin of error based on my data, and I do not know if my data is representative or not. I guess I would argue that even if each geek only influence one other person, that's still a huge margin of error. So, no idea where you get 10k from, but I have no reason to think those numbers are right as it could be anywhere from 5k to 500k for all I know.

If you want to subjectively say "I don't think this is very relevant for X, Y, or Z reason" that's fine, but if you're going to be hard numbers on the thing, don't just make them up.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, if Apple just recolored their existing products, it would also give Android device makers a chance to finally catch up.

Re:This is embarrassing for Apple

[AHuxley]

For now you can "still get Opera the old fashioned way."
Soon Apple will be http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/03/editorial-its-apples-post-pc-world-were-all-just-living/
"Apple doesn't just want to own the market -- it wants to own the idea of the market." ie a big tamperproof vending machine?

17th post?

[Anonymous Coward]

Darn, I knew I should've waited until I was a few minutes older before posting this comment.

No big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

The app allows you to access mature content. Apple does this across the board. - j

Re:No big deal

[fredmosby]

Except of coarse with Safari.

Re:No big deal

[Issarlk]

Safari probably benefits from Job's reality distortion field. Porn isn't really porn when you watch it through Safari.

Re:No big deal

[Whalou]

Safari porn sounds dirtier than Opera porn.

Re:No big deal

[SuricouRaven]

It's subjective. In a debate on the matter, I once posted an image featuring not just a naked woman, but provocative posing and implied bestiality with a swan. Draw that today, it'd be called porn. But this painting was drawn by no less than Leonado da Vinci, and obviously someone so famous would never draw porn. Therefore it can't be porn.

Re:No big deal

[rwa2]

Speaking of which, where is all the dirty dirty Android pr0n Steve Jobs promised me? The best I can find on the Android Market is some Kama Sutra DB with stick figures.

Re:No big deal

[timster]

Back in the real world, all the dozens of Safari-based Web browsers in the App Store have always had the same designation. This is not a new policy and has nothing to do with Opera being a competitor; it's part of the parental control system. It's not as if the designation makes a difference to anyone who doesn't have parental controls enabled.

How do the Android parental controls handle issues like this?

Re:No big deal

[LordStormes]

If only I had mod points, I'd mod this way up. A guy in my high school made the same type of comment when they banned a bunch of books. He said, I found a book in the school library that has rape, murder, incest, genocide, graphic sex, etc. etc. in it. The school demanded he produce the book so they could ban it from the library, and he handed them a copy of the King James Bible.

Re:No big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

No they didn't. They saw the punch line coming a mile away and said "Shut the hell up, kid."

Re:No big deal

[fredmosby]

Safari based browsers have the same restriction. But what's the point of restricting downloaded browsers to 17+ when anyone can look at porn using Safari? How does that protect 'the children'?

Re:No big deal

[Anonymous Coward]

How do the Android parental controls handle issues like this?

By telling all the stupid Apple Fanboys to shut up and go back to their walled garden.

So - shut up and go back to your walled garden. The rest of us adults realize that $800 phones and tablets are not toys for children to use unsupervised.

Re:No big deal

[jbolden]

What graphic sex is in the bible? The worst it has is some highly metaphorical erotic poetry. Graphic?

Re:No big deal

[AliasMarlowe]

In a debate on the matter, I once posted an image featuring not just a naked woman, but provocative posing and implied bestiality with a swan. Draw that today, it'd be called porn. But this painting was drawn by no less than Leonado da Vinci, and obviously someone so famous would never draw porn.

Leda and the Swan could be considered mildly risque by senile nuns, I suppose. Leonardo could also be explicit in his medical drawings of human coitus. You'd need to be living in a herd of retards and zealots to get that sort of stuff classed as porn, of course.

Re:No big deal

[Stone Rhino]

http://bible.cc/ezekiel/23-20.htm
Ezekiel 23-20:
"There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses."

Re:No big deal

[jbolden]

Read it in context, this is a metaphor using sex in place of idolatry. The topic isn't even sex. This is like saying "parliament is a bunch of whores" you aren't talking about sex you are talking about bribery.

Really

[Rizimar]

"Seventeen is very young, and I am not sure if, at that age, people are ready to use such an application. It's very fast, you know, and it has a lot of features."

And right around the time when those kids turn of-age, the other browsers will finally be implementing all of those features

Re:Really

[Anonymous Coward]

By then Opera will have even more features.

Maybe they think I'll do someting naughty

[Anonymous Coward]

Like download Pr0n of the Phantom Lady.

Illegal in many places

[Anonymous Coward]

Last night couple of teenagers approached me near a liquor store and asked me if they could use my Opera.

Re:Illegal in many places

[countertrolling]

You better stay more than 200 yards away from any school or playground

Re:Illegal in many places

[theaveng]

(whispers)

Her kid, you want Opera? It comes installed for free on half of VirginMobile's phones. Go check it out and tell all your friends.

Re:Illegal in many places

[deniable]

It's also on every Wii and they're definitely not for children.

Re:Illegal in many places

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope you gave them cigarettes instead.

FUD?

[puppyfox]

Seems FUD, I downloaded other Safari-based browsers and they give a warning since you can get to adult content via the browser. I'm over 17, but I just had to say "OK" in the message box to proceed, Seems pretty reasonable...

Re:FUD?

[Dalzhim]

Why then don't I need to be 17 to get myself an iPod and use Safari which presents the same exact risks?

Re:FUD?

[puppyfox]

Yes they have double standards, they are only protecting you from "other" apps, My point is the verification seems already in place, why is this news just for Opera?

Re:FUD?

[AmonTheMetalhead]

Yes, but by making you lie about your age you are damning your eternal soul, now it's lying about your age, tomorrow? Downloading music. The day after tomorrow? Robbing liqueur stores , and god only knows what comes later....

Re:FUD?

[Macthorpe]

Selling crack, and running over schoolkids with your car?

Re:FUD?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes they have double standards, they are only protecting you from "other" apps, My point is the verification seems already in place, why is this news just for Opera?

It both amuses and saddens me how the concept of "protecting you from other apps" is treated as nothing more than an accepted handwavey justification for the problem.

Re:FUD?

[natehoy]

Because Apple's implementation of Safari respects Apple's Parental Controls, so if your parents bought you one they could (if they wanted to) lock you own of porn by using well-documented settings on the device.

Opera and many other browsers do not respect those controls, therefore Apple cannot prevent you from seeing porn, and they have to let Mom and Dad know that so they don't run afoul of the Child Online Protection Act (COPA) and get in trouble.

It's all about how us adults like to fool ourselves that we can somehow protect you from things that occur in nature. So stop looking at porn and go watch a violent kiddie cartoon like a good little boy.

Re:FUD?

[Kryptonian Jor-El]

THINK OF THE CHILDREN

Re:FUD?

[Anubis IV]

When was the last time you saw a kid walking in with a stack of bills, slap them down on the counter, and ask for an iOS device? It's not exactly a huge issue, since most purchases of iOS devices use credit cards, which means that they're in late high school or college when they make the purchase...or else that they have their parent's card and, presumably, permission for and awareness of the purchase.

Re:FUD?

[Asic Eng]

"Robbing liqueur stores , and god only knows what comes later...." Either prison or a political career.

Re:FUD?

[Conspiracy_Of_Doves]

now it's lying about your age, tomorrow? Downloading music. The day after tomorrow? Robbing liqueur stores

According to the powers that be, downloading music is far, far worse than robbing a liqueur store.

Re:FUD?

[nurb432]

if you read the EULA's when you activate your device i do believe there are some age restrictions in there too.

Re:FUD?

[Belial6]

Does Apple make the 17+ warning when setting up the device? I have set up one Mac, and one iPod in the last two years, and don't recall being warned that the OS had a 17+ rating. Certainly, if the claim that the warning on Opera is to protect the children, and warn parents during setup, and the rational for not giving the warning on Safari is that it is preinstalled, then the warning should be issued at setup of the OS.

Any claim that the Parental Controls have any impact on the ability of the software to deliver porn is bizarre at best.

Re:FUD?

[betterunixthanunix]

I thought COPA had been struck down?

Re:FUD?

[natehoy]

No, parents are allowed to set up parental controls for iPucks they give to their kids, though. Opera bypasses those controls, so the entire app has (by Apple policy, and probably COPA law since Apple is taking on the liability of parental controls) to be marked as "not safe for yon chilluns"

Re:FUD?

[Trufagus]

Agreed - the age restriction is not the issue in all of this.

The issue is that Apple can decide that they will allow the Opera browser, because Opera doesn't bug them to much and has agreed to play by their rules. Now, if Google tried to submit Chrome, or if someone created a browser that did something Apple didn't like, that would be rejected without explanation.

In other words, Apple reserves the right to play any games they want in who they accept and reject.

Re:FUD?

[Belial6]

Parents are allowed to not give their kids the ability to install software. Thus honoring a more fundamental and more effective Parental Control of the device. Safari does NOT honor parental controls. Even with the Parental controls set, Safari will still serve up porn that is not only going to be offensive to most parents, but is actually illegal in most parts of the world, and all of the US.

Either way, when the iOS device is first turned on, it has access to all of the same sites Opera. Claiming that one browser needs a warning and the other doesn't when they both come with access to the exact same content by default is disingenuous. If the iOS device required the user to choose the parental controls setting at the time it is first used, then they have given warning. If they don't, they are no different than Opera on a standard install.

Re:FUD?

[Dalzhim]

You presume that the parents are those buying the product. But I believe any 15 years old with the bucks to spare can go into a shop and get out with an iOS enabled device and expose himself with safari without his parents having a chance to monitor anything at all.

So because the iOS device itself isn't considered 17+ the parental controls available in the OS aren't an excuse for Safari avoiding this "warning".

Re:FUD?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nothing prevents you from downloading Chrome on your Mac. In fact, I suggest you try doing it right now, guess what? It will work!

Doesn't choice suck?

Re:FUD?

[AmonTheMetalhead]

Bingo! You win!

Re:FUD?

[vlueboy]

if you read the EULA's when you activate your device i do believe there are some age restrictions in there too.

EULA's are on smartphones too these days? Ouch. That's sad. All my dumb phones up through May 2010 didn't.

I can't remember seeing an activation EULA on a work blackberry either, though the setup was pretty long and I might just have forgotten. EULAs never mention the built-in cameras snitches your GPS and serial numbers via EXIF headers, but companies still don't get sued. The more reason to hold a tight grip on the last generation of trusted hardware (to us users). Displays don't need a EULA, but wait till HDCP is everywhere :)

Re:FUD?

[Anonymous Coward]

How much do you want to bet this gets rejected too though? It is Apple. You are buying into Apple's marketing hype. I don't use Apple products for a reason. They suck. If you actually had to use an Apple product without the marketing fluff or knowing anybody who used and Apple product you'd see what utter shit the company comes out with. Stripping features doesn't necessarily make a product better. Apple does allot of this. Sadly Microsoft, Chrome, and even Mozilla Firefox have followed suite. Although I think for different reasons possibly. Microsoft has also made some very unnecessary and horrendous interface changes in recent years (Microsoft Office 2007, 2010 is slightly better though both are much much worse than 2003 or any competing or older product).

Re:FUD?

[Anonymous Coward]

And what does this have to do exactly with the iPhone, other than the tangential fact that the same company makes both devices?

The application markets for the two classes of device differ radically. Unlike the case with apps for a Mac PC, apps for the iPhone are vetted by Apple.

The latter happens to be what we grownups were talking about.

Re:FUD?

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't on an iPod or iPhone. He most a person can do is turn the entire toward off.

Sent from my iPhone
While surfing Pr0n

Re:FUD?

[Kalriath]

Except that the article is not.

It's specifically about the Mac App Store.

Re:FUD?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet I can download the facebook app (no 17 age restriction) and read all of the bad language that my friends post on FB

Opera is so cool

[Bovius]

After reading this, I just want to go shake Jan Standal's hand. It's not often you see a a suit invert a rival's rhetoric against them so pointedly and humorously. Usually it's all serious business, especially, you know, with the internet.

Re:Opera is so cool

[arth1]

He's Norwegian. Norwegian leaders frequently aren't suits, but work the floor, is on first name with everyone regardless of rank, and pretty much get a whole lot more respect than the typical American boss.

(Yes, there are exceptions both ways)

Re:Opera is so cool

[hitmark]

Depends heavily on the size of the company. Opera however is fairly small.

Re:Opera is so cool

[Anonymous Coward]

Google the Swedish Chef edition of Opera. BORK! BORK BORK BORK! Those guys are nothing if not humorous.

Re:Opera is so cool

[Enigma23]

Depends heavily on the size of the company. Opera however is fairly small.

Does 757 employees (end of Q4, 2009), count as "fairly small"? Well, I suppose it does next Apple's 49,500 employees worldwide...

Re:Opera is so cool

[Anonymous Coward]

Bawww, someone disparaged my 30 layers of bureaucracy, he must be a terrorist!

Re:Opera is so cool

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends heavily on the size of the company. Opera however is fairly small.

Is 757 employees fairly small, in regards to having a leader on the floor?

Re:Opera is so cool

[Antisyzygy]

I have no way to verify your claim, but if its true is Sweden any different? I have family that came from there a few generations back and Ive heard that the Nordic countries are much more progressive than here.

Re:Opera is so cool

[arth1]

I'm American. What was your point, again?

Re:Opera is so cool

[Anonymous Coward]

This reminds me of the "Bork" edition of Opera when MSN was targeting Opera back in 2003 (http://www.opera.com/press/releases/2003/02/14/).
Good to see Opera still has a sense of humor!

Re:Opera is so cool

[sznupi]

Sir, are you or have you ever been a member of the communist party?

Re:Opera is so cool

[Anonymous Coward]

I know - it makes it hard to hide from the CEO when he runs into you in the corridor and asks when your feature is going to ready...

Re:Opera is so cool

[sznupi]

Well... (from the angle of the only word in the world which is absolutely politically correct; also, don't miss writings of Securityemo here; and note how I'm mostly just having a laugh from across the Baltic... though I do look a bit like a stereotypical Viking, if with undone hair and too long from last shaving)

Re:Opera is so cool

[arth1]

I know you're joking, but it's really sad that in 2011, two generations after McCarthy, certain government agencies STILL ask that question.
The "freedoms" of speech and thought sure come with a lot of exceptions.

Re:Opera is so cool

[RedShoeRider]

It's not the first time that Opera has approached a rival's rhetoric with class and humor:
http://www.opera.com/press/releases/2003/02/14/

For the lazy: MSN targeted Opera users by feeding them a broken page based on the browser id. Opera returned the favor by having a special version of the browser.....which turned the MSN page language into the language of the Sweedish Chef.

Bork! Bork! Bork!

Re:Opera is so cool

[Anonymous Coward]

hell yeah, there are exceptions. my boss used to be "one of us", but he was too good. ya know? so, they had to promote him. i am very lucky to have him as a boss.

Re:Opera is so cool

[vlueboy]

The bitter part is that those 49,500 employees at Apple don't *manufacture* the iPods and iPads. Foxconn announced a huge move of 200k jobs away from the Hong Kong area, and you can well guess how many people will chase after the new physical location --big overnight loss there.

I wonder if we might count 3rd parties of these huge product lines as fulltime employees of Apple? Not to the PHB's but the point is still non-trivial.

Then Safari should have the same warning!

[name_already_taken]

The app allows you to access mature content. Apple does this across the board. - j

Then Safari should show a warning at some point too.

I usually like Apple stuff, but this move on Apple's part is just pathetic.

Re:Then Safari should have the same warning!

[mcvos]

The app allows you to access mature content. Apple does this across the board. - j

Then Safari should show a warning at some point too.

But Safari is installed by default, and a vital part of your iThingy. It's different. Really.

Re:Then Safari should have the same warning!

[natehoy]

Safari respects Apple's Parental Control system. Opera does not. Therefore, Safari does not require a warning since parents can lock it down if they choose, Opera cannot be locked down using any Apple controls so Apple has to warn parents that it falls outside of the "safe zone" and can be used to access porn no matter what Parental Controls are set for the iDevice.

Re:Then Safari should have the same warning!

[neko the frog]

There's an option in the parental controls to disable/password-protect Safari/Youtube etc altogether. With Opera/Atomic/iCab/etc you get a single dialog that you snicker at while tapping "ok," after which there's no restrictions. So in that sense, Apple locks their own apps down tighter than Opera.

This is a pretty silly story.

Re:Then Safari should have the same warning!

[znu]

The OS has built-in parental controls that apply to Safari. And to the Mac App Store. Had Opera not been given a 17+ rating, a parent could have set restrictions on Safari, set the Mac App Store not to allow installation of apps allowing access to adult content... and little Johnny could have still installed Opera and gotten himself unrestricted web access.

The idea that this is some plot by Apple to undermine Opera is absurd. Apple gives the same 17+ rating to any app that allows access to sufficiently unrestricted Internet content, including things like Wikipedia apps, which last time I checked Apple wasn't competing with.

Re:Then Safari should have the same warning!

[PitaBred]

Safari can really restrict access to all porn over the Internet? As opposed to every single other filtering mechanism that has ever existed? And on a phone nonetheless?

Re:Then Safari should have the same warning!

[fermion]

I think many people are missing the point of this completely. I can imagine some parents buy the iPad with the understanding that they can control content. The tradeoff is that a kid can use the iPad, like the mac, because certain things about use are controlled. Safari as the iPad browser has built in controls(as seen in the restrictions on the iPad control panel). Opera does not. Therefore Opera is in some sense a tool to circumvent the control of Safari, and therefore gets a 17+ rating.

The 17+ rating has nothing little to do with age of the user. I imagine that if a parent bought an iPad for their graduating high school senior, the parent could enable restrictions and Opera would be inaccesible. OTOH, a parent might choose not enable those restrictions for a student younger child, or allow the child to install Opera in spite of the 17+ rating. It is the owner of the iPad to choose what '17+' means.

Of course it is in the nature of child to rebel against those restrictions, and claim they don't need them to be responsible. Just like it is in the nature of some /. commenters to talk about things they know little about. Certainly we are not talking about Apple preventing the owner of the iPad from installing Opera. Most iPad owners simply ignore the 17+ warning. The only complaint I have the subject is that Apple does not provide a means of turning off the warning for people who really don't care.

Re:Then Safari should have the same warning!

[natehoy]

I'm not saying the Parental Controls work. We all know they don't really work. The problem is that Safari is subject to them, and Opera bypasses them, therefore Apple cannot even claim a good-faith effort to protect the chilluns from seeing sausage and meatballs or melons and bush on Opera.

It's a legal disclaimer.

Re:Then Safari should have the same warning!

[amicusNYCL]

It's not actually different, Apple just wants you to think it's different.

Re:Then Safari should have the same warning!

[GillyGuthrie]

Restricting internet access is a trivial task to anybody that can use a computer and a search engine - many free solutions are available. Apple is just trying to pander to the crowd of lazy parents who buy into the notion that Apple is a nice company with morals that will protect their kids from porn. IMO, kids love porn, and will find it regardless of the computer they're using. *yawn*

Re:Then Safari should have the same warning!

[Dog-Cow]

Why are you mentioning phones?

Re:Then Safari should have the same warning!

[name_already_taken]

How did this get modded troll?

If you're a moderator today, and you modded this comment as troll, I suggest you undo your mistake by posting in this discussion, thereby undoing your moderation.

Re:Then Safari should have the same warning!

[Americano]

Because it's easier to simply jump right into apple-bashing, rather than read the summary or the article, where it references the "Mac App Store," rather than the iOS App Store.

Really, bashing Apple is what he was going to do anyway, so there's no point reading the summary. I expect that even if the headline was "Apple cures cancer, promises free treatment for everybody," the response would be something like: "Oh please, I bet they think they INVENTED MEDICINE now, and they're just trying to lock people into their walled medical garden!"

Re:Then Safari should have the same warning!

[517714]

Not a plot? Trying to inject rationality into a discussion about Apple or Microsoft on /. is like a Botox shot on a herd of elephants, chances are it won't be noticed or appreciated.

Children who wish to bypass their parents' control will find this a must-have application.

Re:Then Safari should have the same warning!

[TheTurtlesMoves]

Well i don't know what a iThingy is, but i am pretty sure you need to be at least 17 to look at one.

I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[unity100]

if i say, at this point, that Apple has become a rather villainous, control whore.

its there ANY possible conclusion that anyone can draw from the endless tally of such 'incidents' from apple in the last two years ? word incident is in quotes - because after this many incidents one could logically conclude that these are not 'incidents' but company policy.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Anonymous Coward]

That their app store is a large, bumbling bureaucracy?

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[MareLooke]

Apple always has been, it's just that nowadays they suddenly have the market leverage to actually act upon it.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[DJRumpy]

Yes, because clicking 'OK' is beyond belief. They don't prevent you from downloading it, but they do warn you that it can access adult content. As a parent who might want to control what my children can access, I would appreciate that option (and yes it is optional).

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[antientropic]

if i say, at this point, that Apple has become a rather villainous, control whore.

Nonsense.

They always were control whores.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[getNewNickName]

Opera ignores the parental controls in OS X. I would say that warrants some type of warning. I arrived at this conclusion immediately after seeing the 17+ label.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Anonymous Coward]

because after this many incidents one could logically conclude that these are not 'incidents' but company policy.

Perhaps you should have realized that when they launched the app store that it was company policy.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[elrous0]

Hush, don't tell the hipsters. They still think that using Apple is a symbol of individuality, creativity, and rebellion. Just look at how many douchebags you can find on YouTube looking into their MacBook cameras ranting about the evils of capitalism.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[AmonTheMetalhead]

Yes, because clicking 'OK' is beyond belief.

Lying is a sin! They're leading you into Satan's lap!

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Anonymous Coward]

When's the last time you've used Opera? It's the most stable program on my computer.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[swordgeek]

...again.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[hitmark]

now thats a sweet paradox...

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[NatasRevol]

And this is the whole point.

1. There are parental controls in iOS. Including for Safari. Thus no need for a warning.
2. Opera ignores these parental controls.
3. Apple gives a warning because of #2.

There is no one-sided-ness. No overt control for a competitor. Just trying to be more consistent - parental control or warning. And ironically, after being tarred and feathered for being one sided, when they're more consistent, there's even more whinging.

In the bigger picture, most kids are given sex-ed at around 10...America thinks they have to wait 7 more years for better pictures.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[ArundelCastle]

This is where I start to object to the overuse of "whore". You can't be a "control whore", because then you would be selling your authority to whomever would pay.
Also, please show more respect to whores by not comparing them to Apple's business practices.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Swarley]

Says the guy who hasn't used Opera in over 3 years.

Seriously. I don't even get where all this Opera hate comes from. It's always had more features than the other browsers. Since Opera 9 it's been extremely stable and since 10.5 it's been one of the fastest performing browsers in most benchmarks.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Saint Gerbil]

Apple crackdown on sexy apps last year.
and yet Playboy and Sports Illustrated Swimwear were allowed to carry on?

Don't tell me they aren't paying for it 30% of app's sales is paying for it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/23/technology/23apps.html

Sounds like whoring your authority to me...

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Alan Shutko]

It is corporate policy, and rather public corporate policy. Any app that lets you get to the wide open internet, and does not have some sort of parental controls built in, needs to be 17+, because the wide-open internet has all sorts of stuff in it. Safari does support parental controls, so it doesn't need the label.

This isn't something new just for Opera. ForumRunner has the same rating, because it lets you access all sorts of forums.

From http://developer.apple.com/news/ios/pdf/parental_controls.pdf

If your application is a web browser or provides unfettered access to the Internet or other 3rd- party information sources not under your control, your app must be rated 17+ unless you include a filtering mechanism to ensure users can only access content that matches your app’s rating.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[tgrigsby]

You can't be a "control whore", because then you would be selling your authority to whomever would pay.

You are absolutely correct. By that argument, we could reasonably call Apple the "Control Pimp". It has a whole bunch of apps in its stable (App Store) and it charges you money to use one of them. It can restrict use of an app and even kill an app off if it's not bringing in enough money.

Cuz Apple gots to get PAID.

[insert picture of Steve Jobs macking with a grill, 10 pounds of gold chains and rings, and a cane.]

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

If you're looking for an honest answer, I will say that for me it comes from the fact that Opera used to try to charge for their browser. It sounds stupid (given that most of us on /. make money by writing software) but it left a sour taste in my mouth. Sony could come out with the most open, powerful, and inexpensive console next year and I would still be hard-pressed to buy it. It's not quite the same but it's the closest I could come to figuring out the hatred (other than stirring up the Opera fans).

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[sjames]

This is where I start to object to the overuse of "whore". You can't be a "control whore", because then you would be selling your authority to whomever would pay.

Also known as "Congress"

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[amicusNYCL]

It makes sense for Apple to do this. Opera crashes fairly often and younger kids may not know how to handle it. It requires a certain amount of experience to handle these situations and recognize that some applications are just poorly written.

WTF? Apple is now the "crash police"? Whoaaaaa there kid, we've had a report from someone that their brother's girlfriend's cousin heard about this application crashing. If that happens you will be completely and utterly alone, unable to do anything unless you double-click to start the program again. You better consent to downloading this.

Of course, a professional company like Opera, who essentially makes a single product and has made it cross-platform for a decade, has many more crash problems than the latest game company run by a kid who just recently became able to buy tobacco.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[amicusNYCL]

It sounds stupid (given that most of us on /. make money by writing software) but it left a sour taste in my mouth.

And are you really that myopic that you are unable to realize that the software has changed a lot since you've last tried it (assuming the last time you tried it was when it had ads), and that maybe you should give it another shot to see how it goes?

I mean, yeah, if Sony came out with the wonder-hardware that did exactly what I wanted, I would be leery. But if they got up and explicitly said that this has no malware, DRM, etc, and other people say the same, I may at least give it a try. I wouldn't want to give Sony any of my money, but I may at least try it. With Opera you don't even have to pay them.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Anonymous Coward]

But how many people will figure this out? How about a warning label that actually tells you the issue? Here, misplaced whining occurs because of ambiguity: if you don't use OS X and/or don't use the parental controls, you don't know why there would be such a warning.

Besides, just because one is 17,18, or whatever age doesn't mean that parents (presumably the owners of the home) can't set whatever rules they want. "Live in my house, and you can't look at porn on the web."

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Belial6]

No, it just means that the warning should happen on activation of the device. The parental controls also don't interfere with the download of porn. It is most certainly one sided.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude. You know this is a Slashdot comment thread, right? I just remind you of this point because I see you trying to talk sense...

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[toriver]

Opera + Flash on Mac = teh slowness. Runs better in both Safari and Chrome.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[NatasRevol]

Sorry. Couldn't help myself.

Had to lash back at all the stupidity going on.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[NatasRevol]

Try coming up with a coherent argument. And preferably against what I actually said.

Now go away, or I shall taunt you a second time.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[geekoid]

Nonsense.

In the glorious golden days of yor, not only would apple not care, they would send you schematics and helpful advice.
Yes, the controlled the line, but not the device ones it was in consumers hands.

Between this, and Steve Jobs blatant lies when he announced the iPad2, I don't think he is as active in the company as he like to pretend to be. I mean, it was bad. Like someone else wrote the speech he would want to be true, and he just went out a said it without thinking or fact checking.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[geekoid]

really? does apple tell anyone about those setting? is there a window that pops up and tells people they need to be over 17 to continue if the don't have the parental controls? Does it say you need to be 17 or older to change the parental controls?

It's nonsense, and it's an excuse to scare people way from a competing browser.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[geekoid]

sorry, for the second reply, but I must respond to your sig.

"Webkit: You can thank Konqueror browser’s KHTML software for being open when using the browser on your phone."

Apple took the code and 4 years latter, named the project webkit.

I wonder how open it would be if it didn't have to be open as part of the license?

I am not implying the 'stole it' or didn't have the right, or that they where wrong in anyway. Only they aren't the people to thank for it. I mean, they like to talk like they invented it, but they also like to claim the iPad has 90% market share(60%, really), and then it's the first dual core tablet.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[NatasRevol]

Apple took open source code, made it (a lot) better, and re-relased it. They've never claimed anything else.
That's exactly what open source is supposed to be about.
Show me one phone using KHTML code, pre-installed.

As for your iPad numbers, Apple sold 15 million of them last year. If they only had 60% of the market, can you tell me, in detail, who sold the other 10 million? If not, this rant is worse than the "Apple used opensource appopriately" whine.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is the parent marked as flamebait? It's true that it only requires you to click Ok to download the app anyway. Since a parent may not know what Opera is, this is reasonable.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Anonymous Coward]

if i say, at this point, that Apple has become a rather villainous, control whore.

So if it turns out there is a perfectly rational and reasoned explanation for this will you follow-up with a retraction? I'm guessing you won't, but maybe you'll surprise us.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[jo_ham]

Apple (and many others) have put *a lot* into Webkit to make it what it is today - they have never claimed they invented it, but they chose KHTML specifically because it was an excellent open source project to start with, but to say it's simply "renamed" KHTML now is just utterly disingenuous. Apple are one of the primary reasons it is now a viable third option alongside Trident and Gecko for rendering HTML.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Anonymous Coward]

Um, that's 90% for the year of 2010. And Apple said first dual core tablet "shipped in quantity."

Both are absolutely true. They're misleading if you try to misinterpret them, and Apple probably anticipated that, but if you try to interpolate extra meaning beyond the actual words you kind of deserve what you get.

Call it the idiot tax.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Darinbob]

True, but they weren't villainous.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Darinbob]

Don't be a lemming! Use the same machine I do instead!

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[jbolden]

its there ANY possible conclusion that anyone can draw from the endless tally of such 'incidents' from apple in the last two years ? word incident is in quotes - because after this many incidents one could logically conclude that these are not 'incidents' but company policy.

That iOS is a locked down OS with only Apple approved software. Of course that is policy.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[BitZtream]

Why? You overlooked the obvious reason they did it as you always do in your haste to hate Apple.

Does Opera honor the Parental Control settings of iOS?

No.

Does Safari?

Yes.

Does apply want to be sued under Child Online Protection Act by some retarded parent who doesn't pay attention to what their children does until its too late?

No.

Do slashdotters assume its because Apple is evil control whores? Yes.

Does Apple do the same thing for every other browser using the UIWebView (WebKit based) that doesn't respect parental controls?

Yes.

Nothing to see here, move along. If Opera wants to get rid of the notice they can honor the parental controls, its not even a little bit hard.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[elrous0]

I reject conformity by dressing like all the other non-conformists.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Mordok-DestroyerOfWo]

Personally, no. If the software is what it is and nothing more then I obviously would use it. I was just trying to figure out why there is this hatred of Opera out there and that was the best I could do.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

No, it just means that the warning should happen on activation of the device.

So according to you, Apple should warn people not to use Opera the first time they turn on their computer?

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[Belial6]

What are you talking about?!?!?! Clearly you are trying to not understand. If a web browser requires a warning, then the warning should happen for EVERY browser the first time you have access to it. For Opera, that is at download. For Safari, that is when you first boot the device.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

sorry, for the second reply, but I must respond to your sig.

"Webkit: You can thank Konqueror browser’s KHTML software for being open when using the browser on your phone."

Apple took the code and 4 years latter, named the project webkit.

I wonder how open it would be if it didn't have to be open as part of the license?

I am not implying the 'stole it' or didn't have the right, or that they where wrong in anyway. Only they aren't the people to thank for it.

Ahh, so why does Konqueror offer Webkit as an alternative to KHTML, and no other browser uses KHTML? Because its all the same? Because KHTML was so much better than the fork that Apple simply renamed that everybody chose the cheap imitation instead? Are you even trying to make sense? Or is your hatred of Apple so deep that you actually believe you do make sense? Proving once more that the RDF works strongest on the hatebois, whose reality becomes so distorted it collapses unto itself and becomes detached from actual reality.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[marsu_k]

Yes, it's certainly better to be able to click "OK" instead of doing proper parenting - such a chore, it is!

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[marsu_k]

I'm not certainly implying that Apple (et al, since) hasn't made contributions to KHTML, making it a very competitive rendering engine - I'm just very irritated by the legions of fanbois who cite WebKit as a prime example of Apple's contribution to open source, while being completely oblivious to KHTML. That, and CUPS also.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[marsu_k]

Is America in a totally fucked up state where non-responsible parents can sue companies for not taking care of their responsibilities?

Yes.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[marsu_k]

And as an addenum, this is not about iOS, but about OSX and its app store. Although I can understand the confusion, the line seems to be blurring.

Re:I wonder what will Apple fanbois will say

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

Is America a fucked up state where you have the power to tell people how to raise their children?

No.

Parental Controls

[inpher]

It is because Safari has hooks into Parental Controls and Opera has not, therefore Opera gets the 17 years old limit.

Re:Parental Controls

[Anonymous Coward]

Parental controls creates a proxy that ALL network traffic goes through. WHen running firefox, it goes through this proxy too. How does Opera get around this?

Re:Parental Controls

[natehoy]

I'd assume so. Opera Mini (which appears to be the version Opera is selling) has a major selling point in that all page requests go through Opera's own proxies. Opera's proxies do a lot of the heavy lifting (Javascript, etc) and present the web page as a compressed image-and-text to the phone, meaning you use a LOT less of your monthly allotment of data and a LOT less processing power on your phone to render the web pages.

The downside is that, simply put, your phone is only connecting to Opera's proxies (the other downside is that Opera gets to see everything you send and receive, and I don't think SSL encryption works to protect your data from Opera's proxies, and you thought Google paranoia was bad!).

From Apple's point of view, they can't implement parental controls in Opera, because you never connect to any porn sites when surfing porn. You connect to Opera's proxy.

So Apple has to acknowledge (since they've set up an environment that they claim is "child-safe") that they cannot stop porn on Opera, and therefore Opera operates outside the "safe zone".

Don't worry, your kids can still download all the cartoon violence they want. So your values are safe!

Re:Parental Controls

[mac84]

So evil Apple is not so evil after all? I cannot believe that

Re:Parental Controls

[inpher]

Exactly. Though you appear to be talking about parental Controls in iOS (Opera Mini), the same principle applies to Mac App Store and Mac OS X.

Re:Parental Controls

[mcvos]

How does the parental control check the content coming from Opera's proxy server? The entire reason why Opera Mini is so fast, is that all traffic passes through Opera's servers that clean, compress and otherwise preprocess it.

Re:Parental Controls

[Anonymous Coward]

So your values are safe!

oh thank God! Now I can rest easy. Well it's time to warm up the minivan (it's a brisk 51 F outside!) then go pick up Jonnie from soccer practice and Tiffany from ballet. We're going to go see Saw VIII after picking up a quick dinner at McDonalds. Do you happen to know if there is any nudity in Saw VIII? I don't want to harm my precious kids' minds. Now where did I put that Spongebob DVD for the van's dvd player.... Ah! here it is, under the bill for the second mortgage

Re:Parental Controls

[Anonymous Coward]

Opera is used on the nintendo Wii and DSi, and they are the consoles most aimed at children.
If the problem was opera's parental controls, surely they would not use it for those consoles.
Those consoles have very easy to set up parental controls, so this new app should not be that hard.

Re:Parental Controls

[Anonymous Coward]

As a Parent. My Gratitude goes to Apple.
Perhaps, the Opera developers should point out why they are not compatible with this scheme.
Does Apple not Provide an API to their Parental Controls ?

Also, makes me think twice about having Opera installed on the Wii.

Re:Parental Controls

[MartinSchou]

The downside is that, simply put, your phone is only connecting to Opera's proxies (the other downside is that Opera gets to see everything you send and receive, and I don't think SSL encryption works to protect your data from Opera's proxies, and you thought Google paranoia was bad!).

In fact it's SO bad, that Opera themselves are blatantly shouting this fact on their website!

If you need full end-to-end encryption, you should use a full web browser such as Opera Mobile.

The bastards! They aren't even shy about admitting it!

But don't worry - I'm sure your tinfoil hat can protect you from the Norwegian secret police.

Re:Parental Controls

[shutdown -p now]

Opera Mini (which appears to be the version Opera is selling)

Opera Mini is what they're selling for mobile devices. TFA is about Mac App Store, and full desktop version of Opera.

Re:Parental Controls

[Darinbob]

Wait... Emacs doesn't have hooks into Parental Controls either. So does this make Emacs an adult app?

Re:Parental Controls

[inpher]

Of course it is an adult app, kids get to use vi.

Re:Parental Controls

[inpher]

Apple provides some API calls, for example apps can tag phrases and ask Parental Controls to suppress according to system settings.

Re:Parental Controls

[Anonymous Coward]

Well duh. Everyone knows kids aren't allowed on a safari.

iOS Web Browsers

[Anonymous Coward]

They all say that. Not just opera. All web browser on iOS are labeled that.

The opera guys are class acts

[Anonymous Coward]

Those Opera guys really are class acts. When their competition tries to screw them over, the respond by pointing out how foolish that act was.

Remember when Microsoft was special casing their site to perform poorly with Opera? And Opera responded by translating that page into Swedish Chef?

Good guys.

Firefox Home As Well

[Jesterace]

They also state the same thing for Firefox Home as well on iOS. Though I think the age on that is 18+ I can't remember exactly what it said the last time I updated it.

Re:Firefox Home As Well

[dgatwood]

File a bug report if you disagree with the rating.

Apple on damage control

[Saint Gerbil]

Given the bad press that Apple received from their anti-competitive behaviour over browsers.
You would have thought that they would have taken more care and attention than this, or maybe they did.

Seriously disappointing

[ModernGeek]

Opera on iOS is a serious disappointment, to the point where it's hard to take them seriously as a software development company.

Re:Seriously disappointing

[Anonymous Coward]

Everything on iOS is a serious disappointment - it's falling behind Android so quickly that it's getting ridiculous.

I say this as an iphone user since the beginning - just switched over and completely blown away.

Forget the fact that you're not trapped by a controlling and unpleasant company, just look at the features on Android devices, and the overall experience.

Re:Seriously disappointing

[ColdWetDog]

Opera on iOS is a serious disappointment, to the point where it's hard to take them seriously as a software development company.

We're talking about sex in this thread (well, lack of it anyway). Not software. Please try to stay on topic.

I had to remove it...

[Anonymous Coward]

I work for a fortune 500 company and develop websites for them. A few years back I installed Opera to check it out and see if our stuff would display well. At that time they had some advertising at the top if you didn't pay. I was just testing the waters so I downloaded. The first ad that came up was for a swimsuit calendar. I deleted the app and never installed it again...

non-story

[ItsIllak]

All apps that have unfettered access to the Internet have the 17+ nag screen. Browsers, RSS readers... This isn't a story, this is Apple bashing.

Re:non-story

[ebcdic]

Apple deserve bashing for this. And it is a story; it shows the absurdity of their policies.

Re:non-story

[alexhs]

And it is a story; it shows the absurdity of their policies.

I thought that it was showing the absurdity of the american society.

Apple deserve bashing for this.

Are Apple also somehow deserving bashing for Janet Jackson ?

Re:non-story

[RavenChild]

The video player can be used for porn, Safari can be used for porn. If that is their policy, then shouldn't you get a 17+ warning the second you start your iProduct?

Re:non-story

[Anonymous Coward]

Really? Safari has unfettered access so why is it that when I do an update of Safari I don't get a warning but then I update Firefox Home (and now Opera) I get the "You must be 17+ to update this app" warning? I think that is the point of the article. So no, it's not Apple bashing when Apple treats their product one way and the exact same type product another way. In the immortal words of the "witch" in the Holy Grail, "It's a fair cop".

Re:non-story

[natehoy]

Apple has created an environment they can claim is kid-safe. They have a Safari browser that you can enable parental controls on, and (in theory) keep your kids away from looking at melons and sausages and keep them looking at cartoon violence like God intended.

Opera is not "hooked in" to that control. Opera Mini runs proxy servers direct back to Opera and all content is routed through there (to save you on bandwidth and phone battery when rendering complex sites). Apple cannot be made aware of what sites your kids might be accessing, and cannot keep them away from porn and other sites you might find undesirable for them to see.

Therefore, since Opera is not subject to the Apple Parental Control system and can be used to view porn even if Parental Controls are turned on, it has to be marked as such or Apple gets kicked out of the COPA Cabana (*).

(*) The most boring spot north of Havana.

Re:non-story

[LoganDzwon]

because safari obeys parental controls the parents might have set-up on the device before giving it to their children. You know... that whole being a parent thing...

Re:non-story

[wkurzius]

Wish I had mod points.

If the finger should be pointed anywhere, it's at the over litigious society that we live in. I'm sure on some level Apple is cringing that they actually have to do this to cover their asses.

Re:non-story

[Anubis IV]

How is it absurd? As others have said, Safari taps into the Parental Controls, allowing parents to lock out unfettered access to the Internet, but third-party apps can't do that. That said, parents, I believe, can restrict the purchase of apps that are 17+, which would prevent a means of circumventing the Safari lockout by their children. If you bought your own iOS device and used it for yourself, Apple wouldn't ever check to see that you're 17+ before selling you the app. The only time this would ever come into play is if you're on a device that your parents have locked down, and it's just Apple being consistent in their implementation. After all, it'd be even more laughable if parents could lock down Safari, but kids could download Opera and access the Internet anyway, despite the parent's clear intentions.

Re:non-story

[Riceballsan]

Agreed, it's just CYA, Nerds and anti-competitive complainers are nowhere near as loud as "think of the children" alarmists. Those alarmists are usually the ones who think, OK my mac has parental controls, I just turn those on and I don't have to teach my kids anything. Then of course the kids install their own web browser that completely bypasses the parental controls, and you get hundreds of ticked off parents screaming "you said that my kids would be safe". Do I agree with the moronic parents, no. Do I agree with apple only from a business/PR standpoint.

Re:non-story

[Riceballsan]

Safari dosn't have unfettered access, at least it dosn't if parental controls on the OS are turned on.

Re:non-story

[ItsIllak]

Without this software on your iDevice, you can't get adult material on the iPhone if parental locks are on. With it on, you can. What's to see here?

Re:non-story

[Asic Eng]

"Cringing" ... That's pushing it a bit, isn't it? Wasn't it Apple's initiative to offer a parental control system in the first place?

Re:non-story

[beelsebob]

More importantly –all applications that have unfettered access to the internet, but ignore the parental control mechanism built into the OS.

Re:non-story

[thefixer(tm)]

No, it shows the absurdity of your reasoning skills. Web browsers without built in parental controls allow access to adult content, so if you are a parent who has locked down your child's ipod, they should NOT be able to download another web browser and stumble into all the free porn that's readily available.

It is amazing to me how much /. commentary is based on half baked wishful thinking. "I have an opinion, xxx is bad. It is bad because I believe it is bad, someone probably told me something that hurt my feelings once. I will use whatever random tidbit, half baked nonsense or rumor I find to reinforce my own ignorance and hopefully dupe some other people with my whining drivel."

There should really be some sort of relative mod scheme here. Like a questionnaire where all the people who just forward on the email about how congress is shutting down the internet, or that aids is being spread by computer virus, and the people who read it and check snopes before telling the world that it's true.

Critical thinking should be taught in second grade (and 3rd, 4th, 5th...12th Actually, there should be a test for it, to qualify for an internet driver's license. Where people who fail aren't allowed to express their opinions.)

Re:non-story

[wkurzius]

True, but it's a system that has led to a lot of bad PR ever since the App Store came around.

I'm sure they think parental controls are a good thing. Parents can leave the room for 5 minutes and not worry about their kid ending up on meatspin or whatever. However, it leads to all these other seemingly stupid warnings and restrictions, and if Apple decided to not use them, they would be the primary target of every angry and irresponsible parent out there.

Re:non-story

[Duradin]

"This isn't a story, this is Apple bashing."

In other words: THIS. IS. SLASHDOT!

Re:non-story

[Cinder6]

I can see the reasoning, but it's still kinda silly. Maybe Pages should have a 17+ rating; after all, users can write some pretty adult stuff in it and then read it back to themselves!

Re:non-story

[MartinSchou]

Opera is not "hooked in" to that control. Opera Mini runs proxy servers direct back to Opera and all content is routed through there (to save you on bandwidth and phone battery when rendering complex sites).

Who said anything about Opera Mini? Opera Mini is a different product than Opera.

Opera Mini doesn't run on OS X, and this is about Opera on the AppStore for OS X, not Opera Mini on iTunes Store for iOS.

Re:non-story

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't Apple bashing, it's just pointing out a few simple facts: Apple is the only company that engages in sleazy underhanded tactics to undermine their competitors, and only turtle-necked beret-wearing fops use Macs. Please don't take that as a troll.

Re:non-story

[shutdown -p now]

All apps that have unfettered access to the Internet have the 17+ nag screen.

Sounds very bash-worthy to me.

Re:non-story

[Anonymous Coward]

It's funny because most of /. would rather believe that Steve Jobs is personally spending hours pondering over every submitted app trying to figure out unique ways to screw them over than logic.

When Safari came out, Opera demanded that Apple discontinue webkit and adopt the Opera browser engine instead. This is nothing more than another Opera publicity stunt.

Re:non-story

[Darinbob]

Damn you! Get that song out of my head!

Re:Non-story

[johncandale]

Safari doesn't. and thats the point

Re:non-story

[Anonymous Coward]

"this is Apple bashing."

And so it should be. Preventing kids from using the internet because "they might see something bad" is pretty much universally accepted as a no-go. The fact that capable, dedicated proxies are used to filter traffic, rather than blanket bans on browsers, RSS readers, and every other tool that uses the net is also quite universally accepted. Apple are being asses, probably because they're not opening the right hooks to allow proxies to work or something stupid like that.

Re:non-story

[Maritz]

I agree. I don't really care for Apple stuff or the image/hype around it, and so reading TFA made me think they were being complete gimps. But lo, someone explains how Opera goes around the parental controls, and it makes sense. To keep on at the Apple-bashing upon seeing this smacks of ideology.

And I say this as someone who really finds Apple and their image smug and rather dislikeable.

Re:non-story

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

Are you going into an argument where Apple is evil either because they did something "evil" first or because they just stole the idea from somebody else?

Re:non-story

[Anonymous Coward]

do macs come bundled w/ safari? if so, do you need to be 17+ to buy one?

So as soon as you forbid it

[PolygamousRanchKid]

The more 17- kids will want it. Doing something forbidden is always more fun! But the kids will get bored of it soon, and say, "What was the big deal about this app?"

Re:So as soon as you forbid it

[Nadaka]

And then they figure that since Opera was ok, the other apps were overhyped as well. Before you know it, they have cracked their iPhone and are at an alternative app store, having unprotected downloads and sharing files filled with viruses.

Opera, the gateway app.

Same for all browsers...

[toupsz]

iCabMobile has had this same warning ever since I bought it and it's just an alternate interface to WebKit.

Good decision.

[Anonymous Coward]

Those "swimsuit calendars" can lead to a sinful lifestyle, including masturbation.

Re:And Safari is different how?

[Trolan]

Because it pays attention to the Parental policies.

Was hoping for a good alternative...

[Vidar Leathershod]

I just tried it. The warning doesn't bother me. Just a cover-your-butt type of thing since you can get to naughty sites with it. I was disappointed, though, to see it was far less cool that regular Opera. Also, visually unappealing. Went to Slashdot, front page items were off the edge, had to move back and forth because it doesn't seem to allow pinch/zoom? Hopefully they will polish it up a bit.

Re:Was hoping for a good alternative...

[Ksevio]

Were you using Opera Mini on the iPhone? The article is talking about Opera Desktop on a mac computer where /. looks normal.

Re:Was hoping for a good alternative...

[Tarmas]

I bet he was. I'm using Opera on my Mac right now and it renders /. with no problems.

A step in the right direction

[Anonymous Coward]

This should be a requirement for all browser downloads period. Keep them damn kids off my internet!

Whome do

[Anonymous Coward]

>it's hard to take them seriously as a software development company.

The developers of Opera or of iOS? Whom do you blame for your disappointment?

FATHER FRAKKING SONS OF WITCHES

[theaveng]

I've been patient with Apple up to this point, despite their heavy-handedness.

But this is the last straw. This is not merely an error, but an ANTI-COMPETITIVE AND therefore ILLEGAL practice designed to harm the Opera company. Maybe the US DOJ should leave MPEG alone and sue Apple Store instead.

Re:FATHER FRAKKING SONS OF WITCHES

[natehoy]

Safari respects Apple's Parental Control system. Opera does not.

If Opera respected Apple's "Parental Control" settings, Apple would not have to issue this warning. This isn't anti-competitive, this is a clear violation of their own well-documented policies of providing working parental controls if they don't do this.

Sorry, I'm not an Apple fanboi by any stretch, I hate the idea of the walled garden, etc etc. But for once this is something Apple needs to do. Not because I agree with the concept of Parental Controls, but because Apple has decided to offer them and they therefore have an obligation to make sure they work as well as they possibly can.

Which is to say, pretty much not at all. But when software is introduced that falls outside the parental controls Apple can enforce, Apple needs to post a warning about it to keep parents in their false sense of security that their kids aren't looking at bush and balls.

Re:FATHER FRAKKING SONS OF WITCHES

[theaveng]

>>>If Opera respected Apple's "Parental Control" settings

they'd be a sellout.

Never bow to the man. Besides I don't see other browsers like Firefox or Safari being penalized with this "adults only" disclaimer.

Re:FATHER FRAKKING SONS OF WITCHES

[Anonymous Coward]

OR - mayby Opera could hook into the parental controls so that my kids can't download a new browser and circumvent the policies I've put in place.

Re:FATHER FRAKKING SONS OF WITCHES

[Anonymous Coward]

This is Apple - iOS sucks and doesn't support policies and "security" in general.

Duh.

Hang on.

[Kc_spot]

Isn't Google trying to take over the world? Apple is mucking it all up!

makes sense

[Anonymous Coward]

As Apple presents a managed computing experience for their users, ala training wheels on a bike, it makes sense that they would protect their ignorati from themselves. Consistent with their policy on porn. The real fear is if their people figure out they can get a lot of the stuff they pay apple for can be got for free on the net. Opera... thin edge of the wadge

It's good marketing

Nah

[Anonymous Coward]

They can do both.

In Apple's Defense....

[Anonymous Coward]

Wasn't Steve Jobs on record in the past saying that "if you want p*rn, buy Android" (or something to that extent)
Maybe Apple have just evolved this idea and are labelling all non-Apple products as p*rn-gateways? Or otherwise registering them as explicit content to let the publisher's know: "your portal for illicit material is being tolerated with this tag- if you further press us on removing the tag we will do so, but your App will also be gone with it"

Do Apple make sure their resellers sell Macs & iPhones & iPads, and other products, only to people over 17?
No, i highly doubt it-

On the Wii

[hort_wort]

The browser for the Wii is Opera-based.... I wonder if the "videogames are evil' people will jump on this?

Business opportunity

[HikingStick]

I'll set up a kiosk at the mall and offer to hit the "dowload" button or link. As someone over 17, I can download it without violating the agreement, and if every kid pays me a dollar, I'd have slushies for life!

Re:Business opportunity

[natehoy]

I think offering to sell a child something they can't legally get on their own is the kind of activity that will get your address listed on the "naughty people who mess with kiddies" lists for life. Fair warning that they don't differentiate between "buying alcohol for a 20 year old" and "sexually violating an infant" on that list, and neither will the angry armed vigilante living three doors down...

Re:Business opportunity

[HikingStick]

First of all, I love your sig... I'm not offering to sell anything to a teen. How a browser could be considered "inappropriate for children" I do not know. I do know that the prohibition is against 17-year-olds downloading a specific browser. That's the only scenario to which I was playing.

Really?

[tool462]

Opera only for 17+? Great, now that it's taboo a bunch of kids are going to get a fetish for fat ladies singing.

Everyone missed the follow-up statement,

[Anonymous Coward]

"The company then offered a workaround for those under 17: just visit opera.com and download it yourself. "We do not ask for your age or your credit card number," an Opera spokesperson pointed out."

Apple imposes an age limit and requires a credit card?! Seriously, can anyone who actually uses Apple verify this. If true, it is beyond retarded.

This week?

[Rev. DeFiLEZ]

I just checked my iTune receipts, I got opera on May 08th 2010.

"Opera Mini Web browser v5.0.1, Seller:
Opera Software ASA (17+)"

I am in Canada so perhaps it was blocked by At&t?

Re:This week?

[Rev. DeFiLEZ]

haha Mac store not app store my bad

Re:This week?

[Nimloth]

This is about the Mac App Store, not the iPhone App Store. This is Opera, not Opera Mini.

Re:This week?

[cbhacking]

Where exactly did the headline, summary, or article say anything whatsoever about Opera Mini?

This is the Mac App Store, not the iOS store. Opera makes a desktop browser too.

Reading comprehension is good...

Steve, please....

[Anonymous Coward]

Steve, please don't over-exert yourself and take care of your liver. Whose dick would the fanbois suck if you don't maintain your health?

This is not a problem.

[Prefader]

For many people (parents?), the parental controls implemented by the app store are part of the reason they chose to buy an Apple product for their child to use instead of a competitor's. If an app such as a web browser doesn't utilize those, it makes sense that it ought to have some sort of restriction in place. There may be plenty of things Apple does to their customers that warrant the vitriol that gets spewed at them. This, however, is not one of them.

Same with Skyfire

[Anonymous Coward]

The same warnings apply to Skyfire, which I picked up for Flash support. (It works pretty well by the way, but YMMV.)

Opera is not the first

[Anonymous Coward]

iCabMobile has been out for well over a year. iPad and iPhone versions.

But who chooses the rating?

[stephend]

I think it's important to note that it's actually the developer that assigns the age rating to an app and not Apple. Of course, Apple can refuse to approve an app if it decides that the rating is inappropriate but the original article does not state that.

everyone loves to pick on Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

You guys are clueless idiots, this has been their policy since forever - any app with web contect that cannot be limited by parental control gets that rating. Do you want your 12 year old daughter to look at cocks? It's really easy to do in Opera or an web browser for that matter.

Huh? Doesn't apple's parental control work like t

[Kartu]

Huh? Doesn't apple's parental control work like transparent proxy that intercepts all traffic?

villainous, control whore?

[nurb432]

As far as this age requirement, that is BS. They are just covering their legal ass. Noting more nothing less.

They don't want to get sued by some parent due to something their child did/viewed.

Keep your comments tempered

[hellfire]

I understand the Apple hate mongers want to come out and destroy Apple as a control freak, and the Apple fanboys want to rush out screaming defending Apple that this isn't there fault and Opera is still easy to download.

Well your both right, to a certain extent, and the truth is somewhere in the middle.

It is true that 99% of iOS apps probably don't even have parental controls turned on, so such a warning is little more than an afront to many people's delicate sensibilities about censor ship, but it's not going to kill the app. Hell I didn't even know about it until I saw this on slashdot, and I'd like to try it now that I heard about it, so all you "Apple is evil and must die" people need to chill, because Opera knows this isn't a bad thing... and so does Apple. More on that later.

It's also true that parental controls are simply a bad replacement for good parents, and an even worse replacement for society simply accepting content for what it is and stop placing values on "dirty" or "inappropriate" content, because the more we do this, the more we call attention to it rather than turn people away from it. Censorship in any level is stupid. Our current society in the US has come to a compromise on censorship by basically "warning" people that this content may be inappropriate for minors. Most people ignore such warnings, because they know they are stupid and don't solve anything. Apple really only does this because they are a major hardware provider, major content provider, and there are stupid organizations out there that would sue them for not "saving the children." Apple is simply doing basic CYA that any major corporation would do by including parental controls to make it look like they care. They really don't, and most american's don't, but if you simply follow the money, ratings and warnings are simply a way to protect their bottom line from lawsuits, not some conspiracy to control the app universe (coincidentally, there's plenty of other evidence to support that assertion, this just isn't one example).

Apple also knows that slapping this rating on the app will encourage some attention, some good, some bad. However, it won't kill them at all because they know this, and bad attention is not always really bad attention. Opera knows that this will be good for their downloads, and Apple gets another app in the app store that people will be able to chose, increasing their count total and pro apple articles will be like "hey look! You have alternatives to safari! Those apple haters are stupid!" Apple doesn't care one way or another what the rating is.

This is just one example of YASWADMYC (Yet Another Sensationalistic Web Article Designed to Make You Click).

Firefox Home

[shoptroll]

Firefox home has the same age rating notice as well. I guess that's Apple's get out of jail free card if you decide to start watching pr0n outside of Safari?

This is a good thing

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have a kid a Mac is great because it has built in and easy to use parental controls. Linux and Windows don't have this.
I'll do what I can to keep my 11 year old from surfing porn and other stuff I don't want them to do.
If you hate this so much don't buy a mac and don't get the software from the app store. That's pretty easy to do so stop your whining about a useful feature.
As noted before this is Mac bashing by people that are too young and dumb to understand the usefulness of such things.

I am 17 right now

[yuhong]

Happens that I am 17 years old right now.

The problem isn't the Age 17 stunt. It's Opera.

[tyrione]

Opera 11.10 alpha [build 2020] is a long ways behind WebKit browsers for HTML 5 standardization. It's a work-in-progress that is at least 12-16 months behind the WebKit code-base. It's probably 9-12 months behind Gecko 2. Wake me when they actually get the HTML 5 Parser completed. The one bright spot is that Opera seems to be trying to get complete support of HTML 5 Forms before the rest of the browsers. But until their HTML 5 Parser is fully functional it's a bit of a catch 22.

I'm with Opera on this

[Abstrackt]

I completely agree that Opera should have an 18+ label since it can be used to acquire pornography.

Re:I'm with Opera on this

[t0p]

As should all browsers, right? After all, the web is a seething mess of pr0n and should be legislated out of existence...

And what about all the libraries, book stores and newspaper stands? They're full of filth too. Maybe the best bet is to remove childrens's eyes and ears, then they can't be "corrupted". FFS...

Re:I'm with Opera on this

[Abstrackt]

Yikes, I didn't expect anyone to take such a sarcastic comment so seriously. I'll make a point of labeling them in the future.

EU

[Twillerror]

So is the EU going to require Apple to put all browsers in this store 17+ age or not?

Re:EU

[jo_ham]

They all already are. This is a total non story. Any app that can access the web and that doesn't follow the Parental Controls in the OS has a "17+" warning that you have to click through (it doesn't stop you) to download it.

This is to keep Apple on the safe side of lawsuits from overly sensitive parents who might otherwise think their kids were "safe" online because the Parental Controls were switched on.

This "story" is just a quick way to stir up some flames and crucially, to get angry neckbeard Apple haters to click on the link and generate some ad revenue and page hits.

All browsers = MA in AppleLand

[RMingin]

All of the "custom" browsers for iOS have been marked 17+, since before I got my iPad, at least. The "logic" in App Store management is that you can use the browser to visit pr0n sites, so it's pr0n-enabled. Dumb, but not new.

Re:Huh? Doesn't apple's parental control work like

[natehoy]

Yes, but Opera Mini sends all traffic to Opera's proxies. There's no way for Apple Parental Control to know what the Opera browser is seeing, it's just a connection to borkborkbork.opera.com or whatever. So if Apple blocked the opera.com domain, Opera wouldn't work at all.

Not really a big deal...

[Roogna]

Honestly folks. According to their store rules, any app that hits the open unfiltered internet gets slapped with a 17+. This even includes Wikipedia browsers and such. This is just like the ESRB putting a "Online experience may change" sticker. As others have pointed out, Safari isn't hit by this because Safari can be disabled in the parental controls section on both MacOS X accounts and iOS devices.

Now beyond that, lets be honest. If a parent knows what Opera is and wants it installed, then they'll install it. And if the kid has access to install things themselves then they'll click OK and go on with their lives. The age rating is there for certain individuals who want that information and control over their devices, everyone else can quite happily ignore it and move on. It's not law. They don't check your ID before each launch. It's not some giant conspiracy.

Re:Not really a big deal...

[Anonymous Coward]

Er, as a Wikipedia admin, I'd heartily suggest that it be a 17+ site... you've apparently never looked through the full range of images that are available.

We've got more porn than some porn sites.

Re:Not really a big deal...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you totally missed the point.

Re:Not really a big deal...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not some giant conspiracy.

No of course not.

Now if only they would implement something for certain individuals who want information and ownership rights over their devices which they have paid for.

I can dream. Let me be.

Apparently . . . .

[bogidu]

the "hook em when they're young" guy no longer works at Apple? Remember these guys were the originators of the "put an Apple in every school" plan.

MPAA & RIAA are pi$$ed...

[Anonymous Coward]

...no one's bittorrenting their movies any more - they are too busy torrenting Opera!!!

Not always

[Sycraft-fu]

But for most of their life.

Basically I'd say there were two Apples: The Woz Apple and the Jobs Apple.

Initially Apple was the Woz Apple. He made all the products, Jobs was his marketing guy. Apple was very much about just making cool hardware then. In fact rather than being a premium company, they were an economy company. You got an Apple because it cost less than an IBM, and you could mess with it more. If you've ever seen Woz interviewed, you know where it came from.

However in the early 80s, around when the original Mac launched, the company started to shift to become the Jobs Apple. Woz was away because of his aircraft accident, and when he returned he came back as just a designer, and left not too long after.

At that point Apple started to be all about control. Their products were the sort of thing you used their way. They dictated your experience to you. It was an extremely locked down "doesn't play well with others" platform. However it was really small, so nobody really noticed. Few people got Macs, those that did tended to be rather rabid fanboys so nobody noticed how Apple was actually far worse than most when it came to locking down their platform.

When Jobs was forced out, Apple looked at opening up more but of course we all know how poorly that went. When he came back, the company swung back to being in control stronger than ever. However now, because of their massive consumer electronics division, people are noticing what they do. Apple is becoming more common so more people are noticing how locked down they are.

What's more, they are getting in to more areas, so they have more to control. When they were just a computer and OS company, there wasn't so much, but now they are in to application distribution, consumer electronics, and so on. Means their lock-in can stretch much farther.

But ya, they've had this mentality ever since the mid to early 80s. People just didn't notice so much or gave them a pass because they were "so small" or "not Microsoft."

Re:Not always

[Dogtanian]

Basically I'd say there were two Apples: The Woz Apple and the Jobs Apple [..] But ya, they've had this mentality ever since the mid to early 80s. People just didn't notice so much or gave them a pass because they were "so small" or "not Microsoft."

It's ironic that a company founded on the invention- the Apple II- of a guy- Woz- who was fundamentally a hacker, is now essentially the complete antithesis of that culture.

Regardless of whether or not one can argue that such an approach is justified- appliance-like simplicity and (later) security used as justification by some- doesn't change the fact that Apple's current modus operandi is the polar opposite of the hacker ethic.

And yeah, you're probably right that this closed nature manifested itself with the original Mac, which was both very non-expandable and closed (in a very literal sense here). IIRC the 128KB limit and lack of memory expansion was at the explicit behest of Jobs, and the engineers had to include the facility to upgrade the memory at all surreptitiously so he didn't know about it. (It's been said that the early days of Apple were already over by the time the Apple III came out in 1980).

Re:Not always

[CheerfulMacFanboy]

Basically I'd say there were two Apples: The Woz Apple and the Jobs Apple [..] But ya, they've had this mentality ever since the mid to early 80s. People just didn't notice so much or gave them a pass because they were "so small" or "not Microsoft."

It's ironic that a company founded on the invention- the Apple II- of a guy- Woz- who was fundamentally a hacker, is now essentially the complete antithesis of that culture.

The same Apple II that took the personal computer out of the kit stage operated by switches used to enter binary digits into the computer to program them? The Apple that had a keyboard build in, where you didn't have to find an old teletype and fell like a true hacker about it? One that could simply be hooked up to a TV and show text as well as color graphics? That could be bought at stores and not just by mail order?.

You, sir, a a poser, and real hackers are laughing their ass off at you. And you can't come over the fact that Apple is still much more the old Apple than any other company can hope to be.

Re:Not always

[Dogtanian]

The same Apple II that took the personal computer out of the kit stage operated by switches used to enter binary digits into the computer to program them? [etc]

Yep- the statement was about Woz, who was basically part of the early hacker culture. Aspects of the Apple II's design are very hackerish, such as the way he got it to generate colour, or the clever way that the Disk II floppy disk system was designed to reduce its cost.

It's true that- along with the Commodore PET and the TRS-80- the Apple II was one of the first microcomputers to move beyond the Altair 8800 style hobbyist design into something more consumer-friendly. This doesn't change the fact that it was designed by a guy widely considered to be a "hacker" nor that many aspects of its design are hackerish.

You, sir, a a poser, and real hackers are laughing their ass off at you.

You've made the mistake of jumping to the conclusion that I ever claimed to be a hacker myself. I didn't, and never have.

You'll note that I even explicitly pointed out that some may consider Apple's position justified- merely asserting that whether or not it was justified, Apple's current position was undeniably in opposition to the hacker culture.

And that said, it's risible to think that anyone who considers themselves a "cheerful Mac Fanboy" is remotely in touch with what "real hackers" think or do anyway.

And you can't come over the fact that Apple is still much more the old Apple than any other company can hope to be.

In the sense that even the "old" Apple was more closed and control-freakish than people's rose-tinted glasses give it credit for, and that such tendencies have merely become more evident in recent years? Certainly!

first non-native browser?

[Clsid]

I don't know if that is entirely correct. I have been using the Mercury web browser in my iPhone for some time. I think it's based in Webkit but nonetheless it is a much better web browser than Safari is, with support for tabs, private navigation, full screen controls and stuff like that. Besides in my iPhone, which is the 3G, Safari stays on the background and that causes some problems when the application becomes unresponsive, since I pretty much have to restart the device to get it up and running. This "behavior" was added and backported after the new iPhones came out with their multitasking operating system, since it used to work just fine before.

Re: first non-native browser?

[HTH NE1]

Top Secret - Private Web Browser Post Date: April 21, 2009 Camouflage Post Date: July 3, 2009 Anonymous Web Browser with Blackout Post Date: January 19, 2010 Anonymous Web Browser with Blackout and Capture + Post Date: February 22, 2010 Squeaky Free - The Clean Web Browser Post Date: March 22, 2010 Dweb Post Date: April 29, 2010 Opera Mini Web browser Post Date: May 11, 2010 Sphere web browser Post Date: May 23, 2010 Sphere - web browser (Lite) Post Date: May 27, 2010 AdBlock web browser Post Date: October 12, 2010 Private Browser With Fullscreen & Multi-Tabs Lite Post Date: October 13, 2010 BigToe Web Browser Post Date: November 22, 2010 sbCalc Secret Browser Post Date: November 24, 2010 Private Browse Post Date: December 4, 2010 Secret Browser Post Date: December 7, 2010 Perfect Stealth Post Date: December 7, 2010 Cloud Browse Post Date: December 17, 2010 PERFECT Browser - EXTRAORDINARY FAST FullScreen Browser w/ REAL-Tabs Post Date: December 21, 2010 Stash Free: Private Photos, Videos, Documents, and Web Browsing Post Date: January 5, 2011 Stash Pro: Private Photos, Videos, Documents, and Web Browsing Post Date: January 5, 2011 Mercury Web Browser Pro - The most advanced browser for iPad and iPhone Post Date: January 10, 2011 Thrill Browser Post Date: January 11, 2011 Mercury Web Browser Lite - The most advanced browser for iPad and iPhone Post Date: February 3, 2011 Atomic Web Browser - Browse FullScreen w/ Download Manage & Dropbox Post Date: February 12, 2011 I'm Just Browsing Post Date: February 16, 2011 Peek-A-Browse - The Ultimate Spy Camera Web Browser Post Date: February 17, 2011 Atomic Web Browser Lite Post Date: February 18, 2011 Privacy Screen Web Browser Post Date: February 28, 2011 BrowserCam - Take pictures and Surf the web at ... Post Date: February 28, 2011 Puffin Post Date: March 2, 2011 Skyfire Web Browser Post Date: March 2, 2011

All are 17+ rated. Some more explicitly so than others. Yes, those are their full titles. The dates appear to be when they were last updated, not first released (I'm pretty sure Skyfire has been around for more than two days). And that's just some of the ones you can find searching on an iPod Touch 4 and thus excludes the iPad-only browsers. I didn't know there were so many browsers that were devoted to taking surreptitious photos and video. And yet they tend to have the simplest of warnings for content.

Re: first non-native browser?

[krizoitz]

This story is about the Mac App Store. Seriously, read the story before posting.

Parental restrictions?

[bussdriver]

Does Safari on the iPhone have the parental controls that the desktop version does? In which case, allowing a browser without those controls would be a backdoor for clever kids around their parent's wishes... Could this be a matter of keeping the parents able to excise their rights over their children (who have less rights.)

Not new

[Anonymous Coward]

This browser has been on the app store for almost a year.

A real solution ...

[Tjp($)pjT]

Is for Apple to allow access to the parental controls setting values. That would allow some of my Apps to tailor their content to the appropriate audience as well. This is one particular case where Apple fell down. This is a generically useful setting (Like Airplane mode. WiFi, etc.) but one that is duplicated across many Apps potentially (unlike AIrplane mode, ...) so it _should_ be able to be checked by any App. This would let games substitute less and less gory animations, etc. Maybe have fluffy bunny run off scared by the bubble gun, instead of commando Jim blasted to gory pieces by the inside out exploder grenade ...

Re:A real solution ...

[natehoy]

As a parent myself, I have to respectfully suggest that a real solution is to be a parent.

When your kids get old enough to be exposed to the big scary Internet, they'll encounter stuff no matter what you do. Bring them up with a healthy respect for the difference between fantasy and reality, a little dose of "not everyone who claims to be your friend, is your friend", and the mean old world won't be so scary and mysterious to them when you suddenly turn off the parental controls and set them loose when they're 18.

Payback

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be 17+ to buy an Apple product.

If I may quote the new guy, "Who's the biatch now?".

Opera Does not kill applications

[Tisha_AH]

Opera does not kill applications, Apple kills applications

My take on "Guns don't kill people, people kill people"

You Require Strict Punishment - Phone Madam Jobs

[Dogtanian]

Apple has become a rather villainous, control whore

I was about to say that there are people out there who'd probably enjoy and pay damn good money for a "villainous control whore".

Then I suddenly twigged why Apple has been so successful. (^_^)

Same thing happens on my iPad

[ToSeek]

whenever I upgrade my non-Apple Web browser on there. As others have noted, it allows unfettered web access, which could lead to inappropriate websites. No big deal.

Re:And Safari is different how?

[santiagodraco]

How can you mark a post as "redundant" when it's the second post on the topic and the first post had nothing to do with it?

If you have mod points try paying more attention to timestamps.

They have to, youth is fleeting and emacs is slow

[Brannon]

Burn. :q!

Torrents

[Anonymous Coward]

Do those sceaming about fanboys and evil Apple realize how devastating it is to be dragged to court because your minor child downloaded music using P2P? Opera has a Bittorent client built in. I think the greater sin is that Apple doesn't state WHY it an app has a parental warning.

App Store won't install Opera, either

[PuritySyrup]

I realize that this is just a single data point, but I'm far more concerned that the App Store wouldn't instal Opera. I asked that it install, confirmed that I was over 17, and watched as the App Store drew the Opera icon in my Dock with a loading thermometer across it. Then the Opera icon disappeared from the Dock, and I was miffed that Apple decided I didn't want the icon all that much. But it turned out that I didn't get to keep the icon because the App Store didn't install Opera. So I went to the purchases page, and saw that Opera was listed, but that the Install button was active. (Which I see for other applications; those I have downloaded but since deleted.) I clicked the Install button, and tried to install Opera a second time. After a few moments, the App Store happily changed the Install button into an Installed icon. Except that it's still not installed. Spotlight has no idea what the heck I'm talking about. So I downloaded it from Opera's own website, and when I copied Opera.app to my Applications folder, it did so. It did not warn me about overwriting an existing application, which is hardly surprising, since the App Store clearly didn't actually do anything even after I asked it twice to install it.

21+ Shows around Boston

[Anonymous Coward]

Operas are usually 21+ shows around Boston, just like those at the New England Conservatory, Club Passim, Berklee Performance Center. Most of these Operas have too much Sax and Violins. Sometimes the Irish pubs will sneak an opera in undercover, but their clientele follow their own rules anyway (and pay the musicians better too!)
Opera is a what? ...Oh. Nevermind.