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Even Microsoft Wants IE6 Dead

Posted by Unknown on from the is-this-really-happening dept.

Tarmas writes "Microsoft has launched a website intended to persuade people to upgrade their browsers from Internet Explorer 6. In Microsoft's words: 'This website is dedicated to watching Internet Explorer 6 usage drop to less than 1% worldwide, so more websites can choose to drop support for Internet Explorer 6, saving hours of work for web developers.' About time?" Of course they want you to upgrade to a newer Internet Explorer.

40 of 285 comments (clear)

  1. If only other devs used ie6-upgrade-warning.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've used ie6-upgrade-warning for some of my projects.

    It's quite obnoxious, and usually gets the job done.

    1. Re:If only other devs used ie6-upgrade-warning.. by Pieroxy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Another initiative of the sort: http://ieai.pieroxy.net/. The only difference is that it doesn't necessarily just target the version 6.

      Disclaimer: as my nick probably shows, it's mine.

      --
      Write boring code, not shiny code!
    2. Re:If only other devs used ie6-upgrade-warning.. by Z00L00K · · Score: 2

      There are a few problems around the upgrade:

      1. Microsoft wants to ask a lot of obnoxious and hard to understand questions during installation and initialization of newer versions.
      2. People are afraid that upgrades will break something.
      3. A lot of web sites - especially company internal web sites are still designed for IE6.
      4. A lot of companies are afraid of upgrading from IE6 due to concerns of various kinds and "if it ain't broken, don't fix it".
      5. If you do a fresh install of XP SP3 you will have to postpone the installation of IE8 until some patches are installed or you end up with a broken browser - which will be fixed if you uninstall and reinstall, but it may have scared a few.

      Don't forget that many major companies still runs XP as primary OS because it works, and it does the job. Some have a procedure of progressively upgrade so new computers are deployed with Win7 and old are kept at XP. And some went into the Windows Vista track full ahead - and got a bunch of problems on the way.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    3. Re:If only other devs used ie6-upgrade-warning.. by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Informative

      The problem is you seem to think the users are going "yay lets use crappy IE6!" when of course that isn't the case, it is the fact that all their Intranet will break since it was coded in crappy IE6 ActiveX and good luck getting the suits to pay to upgrade THAT mess!

      But there is a good reason why IE6 usage jumps from 9AM to 5PM Mon through Fri, and that is because millions of dollars worth of corporate Intranet apps are written around IE6. Was it stupid? Of course. Do most places have the budget to replace it? Not in this economy they don't.

      But if you want o run off the business users that's cool with me, free market and all that. But don't pretend there are millions of consumers running crappy old IE6 just for the fun of it.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    4. Re:If only other devs used ie6-upgrade-warning.. by corychristison · · Score: 2

      IE6 is broken, no matter how you want to swing it.

      There's no problem with running Firefox or an alternative browser alongside IE6 installed.

      People can use IE6 for the Intranet and another browser for everything else.

      Thats a case of the local administrators to install it, Intranet works, people can browse the real internet with a browser that actually works.

      Easy as that.

      If the admins aren't willing to install an updated browser, they are neglecting a huge security hole and don't deserve their jobs.

    5. Re:If only other devs used ie6-upgrade-warning.. by sortius_nod · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You hit the nail on the head, and there's nothing that can be done with the disaster that is corporate intranets.

      Having had to support these intranets, you have to install at least 2 browsers to have the machine able to access both the intranet sites for work, and internet sites for work. There's always a big "DO NOT UPGRADE IE" policy in every company I've worked for, the good thing about that though is that there's usually an "INSTALL FIREFOX IF A WEBSITE DOESN"T WORK" policy.

      I suppose the knife cuts both ways there. IE6/ActiveX was the worst thing that companies bought into, and it's hurting them still, years later. The biggest problem there is that the IT managers are quite happy to accept their kickbacks from MS to have MS still deployed throughout their company. One would think they'd learn after the first time.

    6. Re:If only other devs used ie6-upgrade-warning.. by Penguinisto · · Score: 2

      There's no problem with running Firefox or an alternative browser alongside IE6 installed..

      Technically, no problem. Business-wise (read: clueless PHB policy-wise), sadly the answer is still often that there is still a problem.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    7. Re:If only other devs used ie6-upgrade-warning.. by Shikaku · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wow, that's annoying.

      So are driveby infections because people still use IE6.

      And the botnets/spam it creates. Pick your poison.

    8. Re:If only other devs used ie6-upgrade-warning.. by jonwil · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem is is that the alternative browsers like Firefox, Chrome, Opera and Safari is that none of those browsers contain the kind of admin features you get with IE.

      What IT guys (not necessarily the actual guys down in the trenches doing the work but the PHBs in their cushy office making the decisions) would want:
      1.The ability to push a browser installer (both the initial install and any upgrade installs) to the client and have them run automatically without the need to manually upgrade any clients. You cant get proper MSIs from any of the alternative browser vendors, only from 3rd parties.

      2.The ability to ensure the browser wont update
      (either automatically or initiated by users selecting "update") and can only be updated when IT pushes patches.

      3.The ability to ensure only plugins and addons pushed by IT can be installed, upgraded, managed and uninstalled.

      and 4.The ability to manage (via group policy or something similar) the features of the browser so the IT people can set settings like proxy servers and can disable features and the end-user cant mess with the settings and changes the admin guys have set.

    9. Re:If only other devs used ie6-upgrade-warning.. by compro01 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Chrome does all that just fine. Google is serious about wanting their browser on the business desktop.

      http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/business/chromebrowser.html

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    10. Re:If only other devs used ie6-upgrade-warning.. by BitZtream · · Score: 2

      ActiveX will work in all versions of Internet Explorer, its not 'an IE6 thing' any more than plugins only work in Firefox 1. Its nothing more than a plugin system, you should get a clue about it instead of repeating the idiotic 'ActiveX is evil' meme, it just makes you look stupid.

      The problem was early implementations of IE allowing anything ActiveX to install itself ... it would be no different than having Firefox just install any plugin on a page rather than requiring the user to approve it. Now days IE's ActiveX support is pretty much as secure as Firefox's extension system.

      People are stuck using IE6 not because of ActiveX, again, they'll work in any version of IE after 6 as well. Its stupid IE6 specific Javascript and HTML that creates the problem, and mostly really stupid things like checking for IE6 specifically rather than IE6 or later.

      But hey, don't let reality get in the way of your ignorance. All you do is show how little you know about why IE6 is actually used, your just repeating what you read somewhere else on the Internet.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    11. Re:If only other devs used ie6-upgrade-warning.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Many of the IE6 users are aware of the problem but unable to upgrade because of corporate IT policy. Telling these poor folks that they should upgrade is like pouring salt in a wound.

      Maybe you could make a webapp that does a reverse dns lookup, and for coporate adresses it will display something like:

      "It seems you're stuck using IE6. Working at [company X] must suck. Maybe it's time to look for a new job?"

      And a link to monster dot com or similar.

    12. Re:If only other devs used ie6-upgrade-warning.. by Pieroxy · · Score: 2

      AC has spoken. Hugh!

      --
      Write boring code, not shiny code!
  2. I'll switch by camperdave · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'll switch as soon as the update.microsoft.com website will let me. It keeps throwing 0x8DDD0004 errors.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    1. Re:I'll switch by TrancePhreak · · Score: 4, Informative

      http://forums.techarena.in/windows-update/451062.htm

      Five seconds on Google.

      --

      -]Phreak Out[-
    2. Re:I'll switch by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      The only machine I have running IE6 is my Windows 2000 machine. Even when Windows 2000 was still supported I kept getting pleas to upgrade.

      So I clicked "Upgrade" only to be met with "Your operating system is not supported". You'd think Microsoft would've been able to figure that out when it offered me a chance to upgrade...

      Now that Windows 2000 has fallen out of support, there's no upgrade for it. Though, I don't use IE6 on it at all... (Firefox 3.5)

    3. Re:I'll switch by schnikies79 · · Score: 2

      If it's firewalled, has an updated antivirus and a secure browser, does it really matter? I have an older laptop with w2k on it, not a problem at all.

      --
      Gone!
    4. Re:I'll switch by The+MAZZTer · · Score: 2

      Download the IE8 installer manually and run it. If it doesn't work at least you may be able to get a more sensical error message out of it.

  3. We can do better by markdavis · · Score: 2

    >"Of course they want you to upgrade to a newer Internet Explorer."

    And I want you to upgrade to a cross-platform web browser, like Firefox, Opera, or Chrome. Then maybe we can have all sites work on all browsers and on most all operating systems. But we can't always get what we want, can we?

    1. Re:We can do better by MoonBuggy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Cross platform doesn't matter as long as the different pieces of platform-specific software all obey the same standard. It doesn't matter whether your TCP/IP stack was coded in malbolge by Russian monks and only runs on RISC OS, if it supports the standard it won't cause any problems for anybody.

      The problem, of course, is that HTML & CSS are very complicated and, some might say, poorly-defined standards whereas TCP/IP, ASCII, and so forth are straightforward and well known. Really, though, your theory that one needs a cross-platform browser to ensure correct rendering implies that none of them are implementing the standards properly, and that's something I disagree with - there may be minor quirks, but on the whole you can expect a well coded site to display more or less accurately, although not pixel-perfect, in all modern browsers. IE6, however, made a complete hash of valid markup ten years ago, and does so to an even greater extent now.

    2. Re:We can do better by markdavis · · Score: 2

      >"Cross platform doesn't matter as long as the different pieces of platform-specific software all obey the same standard"

      Agreed! So what part of Active-X is standards based?

      There are still TONS of sites still require the use of IE. I have to deal with three on a regular basis and it is especially true with hosted, supposedly "web based" business services. IE6 is not the root problem there. The modern root problem is Active-X (and to a much lesser degree, Silverlight). It turns what COULD be a standards-based browser setup into a completely proprietary, MS-Windows, IE-ONLY environment.

      If most people chose a cross-platform browser, it would ensure that sites can't pull non-standard stuff and end up dictating which browser AND operating system is used.

  4. I'm a web developer and I don't like this by WiglyWorm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm not sure why I should potentially lower my conversion rate by hassling people to upgrade their browser. That seems like Microsoft's job, not mine.

    Maybe they could use the same features that redirect you to msn.com or bing to redirect you to a browser selection page, no? In the mean time, I will just keep including stylesheets for IE6 that do some graceful degredation. It won't look great, but it won't be illegible.

    Besides, it seems like most IE6 users in this age are enterprise clients who can't upgrade until their vendors start supporting new browsers, or until the interprise itself gets rid of legacy programs.

    1. Re:I'm a web developer and I don't like this by Pieroxy · · Score: 4, Informative

      I am working for a big e-commerce website (think several hundred million euros of yearly revenue) and we are actually putting up a banner for IE6 users. We still test it for now but don't spend time on design. Most websites in France are moving in this direction.

      Now, when I won't have to worry about it at all, I'll celebrate a second time !

      --
      Write boring code, not shiny code!
  5. Saving hours of work by ve3oat · · Score: 2

    so more websites can choose to drop support for Internet Explorer 6, saving hours of work for web developers

    Gee, if M-S would only discover and use W3C standards, no one would have to use special browser hacks to make their websites work in any variety of different browsers.

    1. Re:Saving hours of work by BitZtream · · Score: 2

      Right, because when IE6 came out ... everyone else followed the standards but not MS ... wait ... no ... not really ... FF 1 wasn't exactly worth while and that was as close as you could get.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
  6. They'd better do this by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    they risk losing market share to Firefox otherwise. There is no Microsoft, there is only XUL ;).

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  7. Re:Beware of what you wish for. by neokushan · · Score: 3, Informative

    IE9 is beta (Release Candidate is still more "beta" than "final"), so you wished to use beta software by installing it in the first place. You could have just used IE8 and had no problems, then upgraded to IE9 when IE9 is ready.

    --
    +1 IDisagreeSoHeMustBeATrollOrAnAstroturferOrAShill
  8. This website looks great! by snowraver1 · · Score: 3, Funny

    It sure does render good using IE6!

    --
    Copyright 2010. All rights reserved. This comment may not be copied in any way including, but not limited to caching.
  9. Anti-marketing? by molo · · Score: 2

    "Friends don’t let friends use Internet Explorer 6." © 2011 Microsoft

    Wow. IMO, they should have left off the "6".

    -molo

    --
    Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
  10. MS KB914224 by DigiShaman · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://support.microsoft.com/kb/914224. In short, stop two services. Windows Update and Background Intelligent Transfer. Next, delete the entire folder called "SoftwareDistribution" located under the root of C:\Windows. Restart both services and try again.

    BTW, that folder you deleted will regenerate after starting these services. Don't worry about it.

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
  11. International version? by fearlezz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So, about 50% of the IE6 users worldwide are chinese... Actually, the top 10 countries with the highest IE6 usage are non-english... and they didn't think of approaching IE6-users in their own language? *sigh*

    --
    .sig: No such file or directory
    1. Re:International version? by hduff · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So, about 50% of the IE6 users worldwide are chinese... Actually, the top 10 countries with the highest IE6 usage are non-english... and they didn't think of approaching IE6-users in their own language? *sigh*

      What they really need is a free upgrade path from the pirated versions of Windows.

      --
      "I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
  12. Re:Sorry MS its your own damn fault by Pieroxy · · Score: 2

    How it is MS's fault? Can't they install Firefox or something? IE6 is not a curse. People browsing with IE6 are !

    --
    Write boring code, not shiny code!
  13. As of IE9 by tepples · · Score: 2

    Gee, if M-S would only discover and use W3C standards

    As of IE9, Microsoft is doing a far better job of this than it ever used to. But then IE9 could just be Microsoft's trojan horse to get users off Windows XP and onto Windows 7.

  14. Re:Sorry MS its your own damn fault by voss · · Score: 2

    Firefox 3.6 runs just fine in windows 2000

  15. Microsoft Mock Funeral for IE6 by WebManWalking · · Score: 2

    Microsoft's Giorgio Sardo begins his "HTML 5 and Internet Explorer 9" video with a mock funeral for IE 6 at http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2010/07/17/seven-must-see-videos-and-presentations-for-web-app-developers/

  16. Re:Kickbacks? by guruevi · · Score: 2

    100 Windows PC's won't cut it. Once you get near the 4 digits or if you're a high profile developer you could be talking. And yes, the people that sell the OS to a company (internal or external) DO get kickbacks. I worked for one of those Microsoft Gold Certified Partners, it's disgusting when you read the contracts. I nearly got fired once for recommending Linux to one of our biggest clients even though it would fit their needs better.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  17. Holy fuck Scandinavia by AndyAndyAndyAndy · · Score: 2

    They lead the world in even in this?

    --
    It's always confirmation bias!
  18. How to get IE6 below 1% by scrib · · Score: 2

    1. Microsoft stops patching IE6.
    2. Find remote code execution exploit.
    3. Deploy Trojan Updater to remove IE6 and install new browser.

    A browser that automatically updates itself without asking would be a good choice for any stragglers at this point.

    --
    Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
  19. Google Chrome Frame by tepples · · Score: 2

    I'm not sure why I should potentially lower my conversion rate by hassling people to upgrade their browser.

    Because you may already be lowering your conversion rate by making the site look broken in IE6 due to necessary scripts and CSS not working correctly.

    Besides, it seems like most IE6 users in this age are enterprise clients who can't upgrade until their vendors start supporting new browsers

    Enterprises that want both IE6 for the intranet and a modern browser for public sites can deploy Google Chrome Frame. This way, sites that request Chrome in the user agent get Chrome, and intranet sites get IE6.