Linux 2.6.38 Released

darthcamaro writes "The new Linux 2.6.38 kernel is now out, and it's got a long list of performance improvements that should make Linux a whole lot faster. The kernel includes support for Transparent Huge Pages, Transmit Packet Steering (XPS), automatic process grouping, and a new RCU (Read/Copy/Update)-based path name lookup. '"This patch series was both controversial and experimental when it went in, but we're very hopeful of seeing speedups," James Bottomley, distinguished engineer at Novell said. "Just to set expectations correctly, the dcache/path lookup improvements really only impact workloads with large metadata modifications, so the big iron workloads (like databases) will likely see no change. However, stuff that critically involves metadata, like running a mail server (the postmark benchmark) should improve quite a bit."'"

Comments

Kernel Newbies link

[Anonymous Coward]

Informative as usual: http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_38

Re:Kernel Newbies link

[Anonymous Coward]

"B.A.T.M.A.N. Mesh protocol"
Now things are getting good.

Re:Kernel Newbies link

[Anonymous Coward]

You are a nigger.

Re:Kernel Newbies link

[Anonymous Coward]

Trolls are the new niggers. Research has proven that yesterday's niggers are educable, and that they can lead productive lives. However, further research has found no evidence whatsoever that trolls are educable, or that any of them has ever led a productive life.

Re:Kernel Newbies link

[davester666]

Really?
"we're very hopeful of seeing speedups"
This sounds so reassuring to somebody with a rack full of linux machines.

Re:Kernel Newbies link

[kokoko1]

Better Approach To Mobile Adhoc Networking

Re:Kernel Newbies link

[Anonymous Coward]

That sounds suspiciously similar to what a nigger might say.

A now untrusted source of information

[Anonymous Coward]

From the article:

"New Linux kernel takes big steps forward to make the open source operating system faster than ever."

I didn't know the Linux kernel was an operating system. While I know exactly what the author means, it is sloppy none the less.

Re:A now untrusted source of information

[troon]

It isn't sloppy. The kernel is the heart of the operating system, and the quote you extracted is precisely correct.

Re:A now untrusted source of information

[neokushan]

I guess you could argue that Linux itself isn't an OS but rather Operating Systems are built using the Linux codebase.
I wouldn't, though.

Re:A now untrusted source of information

[blair1q]

he could argue that making the kernel faster makes the OS faster

which is what the quote said

Re:A now untrusted source of information

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's sloppy. The unclear reference is "the open source operating system". The author either writes "the Linux kernel" to mean "the kernel of the Linux operating system", in which case the reference is clear but wrong, or he means "the kernel called 'Linux'", which is correct but leaves the "the" in "the open source operating system" unclear.

This display of GNU/pedantry was brought to you by the conglomerate of posters known as AC.

Re:A now untrusted source of information

[anon37]

Incorrect. The term "operating system" refers to software written by Richard Stallman and GNU. The "Linux kernel" is not "the heart" of anything! It is merely a component in the Emacs software suite.

Re:A now untrusted source of information

[Daniel Phillips]

I guess you could argue that Linux itself isn't an OS but rather Operating Systems are built using the Linux codebase.
I wouldn't, though.

And you would be wrong. Crack any textbook on operating system design and you will learn immediately that by "operating system" knowledgeable people mean "the kernel".

Does this make a joke of Apple calling FreeBSD "iOS" and Google calling Linux "Android"? Why yes it does, but shush don't them them, they could be terribly wounded.

Re:A now untrusted source of information

[DrXym]

In an alternate reality Slashdot is only available via an email request and must read through Gnus.

Re:A now untrusted source of information

[Dog-Cow]

You're an asshole and you're stupid. A winning combination on slashdot, to be sure.

Apple doesn't call FreeBSD "iOS". They call iOS "iOS". Makes sense, huh? More specifically, the FreeBSD parts are a layer over a Mach microkernel, and parts of userland. Apple doesn't call it FreeBSD becausee it isn't. Just like OpenBSD isn't FreeBSD either, despite the fact that they may share some code.

Similarly, Android refers to the entire package, which happens to include a Linux kernel. It's no different than Debian or Red Hat in that regard.

Re:A now untrusted source of information

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd use that GNU's crap if it saved me from Slashdot 3.0.

Re:A now untrusted source of information

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks, I needed that. Tasteful humor seems a bit scarce around these parts lately. +5 all the way.

Re:A now untrusted source of information

[Knuckles]

When people refer to the "Windows OS", they are really talking about NTOSKRNL.EXE? I don't think so.

200-line patch

[Tubal-Cain]

Isn't this the version that 200-line patch was slated for?

Re:200-line patch

[WrongSizeGlass]

Isn't this the version that 200-line patch was slated for?

I'm pretty sure that's what "automatic process grouping" is.

Re:200-line patch

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the "automatic process grouping" that TFS mentions.

Re:200-line patch

[neokushan]

aka "the wonder patch".

As someone who knows bugger all about Linux, can anyone confirm if that patch will have any kind of impact on Android Devices or is it the kind of thing only a desktop user will see a difference with?

Re:200-line patch

[blair1q]

i think that's the wonder of it

because i wonder what it will do, too

albeit, i haven't followed kernel fixes for years

i imagine someone's found a way to fake priority by treating a group of processes as one process when allocating cpu, because it solves one problem someone was having while causing someone else a problem

the example was forking 20 compile processes. normally that's a big speedup because when one has to pend on some i/o, another can pick up and do some work on your overall compile. with this new scheduling instead of 20 new processes crowding the few existing processes into much less cpu, now the 20 processes only act like one new process

which makes me wonder why you'd fork 20 processes any more, since they'll have only one process' share of the resource. might as well run them sequentially; it'll take almost exactly as long

unless that example wasn't the benchmark we're looking for...

Re:200-line patch

[Junta]

I would say most dektop users won't even notice this. It may prevent fork-heavy things like Chrome from starving other things, but the best cases to demonstrate was 'make -j ', in a terminal, which isn't particularly indicative of most user load.

Re:200-line patch

[crazycheetah]

If Google decides to include this patch with their fork of the kernel, then yes. But the two kernels, while essentially the same, are two different branches of the same tree now, really*. Google may go ahead and put a lot of this into their kernel, but they might not. I wouldn't ever *expect* it to go into Android, personally, but I may just be quite happy if it does.

* I may be off about this, as I haven't kept up too well on the details, but last I ever heard, the Linux kernel as used by the desktop distributions and Android's Linux kernel are moving roughly in their own directions. Perhaps someone else could shed better light on that.

Re:200-line patch

[Wrath0fb0b]

As someone who knows bugger all about Linux, can anyone confirm if that patch will have any kind of impact on Android Devices or is it the kind of thing only a desktop user will see a difference with?

The Android kernel and the Linux kernel are pretty much irreparably forked, after the Linux people (perhaps rightly, I don't know) refused to accept the Android patches back into the trunk over the wakelock controversy. Unfortunately, the rift there never healed and there was never any real resolution.

In order for this to apply to Android, Google would have to port the changes over.

Re:200-line patch

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, you'd fork 20 processes for a mixed CPU/IO workload (like your compiling example) if you wanted whichever one(s) are not waiting on IO to continue getting the one process's worth of CPU share, instead of getting _nothing_ done until the IO completes.

OTOH, if your workload is entirely CPU-bound, forking it shouldn't gain anything, so you wouldn't. (And if it's completely IO bound, there's never been any reason to fork it 20 ways.)

Re:200-line patch

[butalearner]

Isn't this the version that 200-line patch was slated for?

I'm pretty sure that's what "automatic process grouping" is.

Yup. Some links:

• This LWN talks about the switch from TTY-based grouping to session ID-based grouping.
• Lennart Poettering's alternative solution using cgroups, which works perfectly fine as long as you don't care the changes are in user space (i.e. you have to manually set this up on each computer).
• Another alternative is using Con Kolivas' BFS, which reportedly shows similar improvements, not to mention actually pays attention to nice levels. Of course you actually have to build your own kernel, or get it from someone else, or use a distro that uses it by default like PCLinuxOS or Zenwalk.

Re:200-line patch

[Timothy Brownawell]

the example was forking 20 compile processes. normally that's a big speedup because when one has to pend on some i/o, another can pick up and do some work on your overall compile. with this new scheduling instead of 20 new processes crowding the few existing processes into much less cpu, now the 20 processes only act like one new process which makes me wonder why you'd fork 20 processes any more, since they'll have only one process' share of the resource. might as well run them sequentially; it'll take almost exactly as long

Say you have regular desktop programs that take some small amount of CPU, and you want to be able to compile things a quickly as possible without making your music skip or your window manager get laggy. Before this you would have to guess at the right number of compile processes to run; too few and it takes longer and doesn't use all your CPU, too many and your desktop gets laggy. Now, the scheduler treats all of the compiler processes as a group, and lets your music player and window manager steal CPU cycles from them more easily -- so you can run more processes and keep the CPU busy, without worrying about your music skipping.

Re:200-line patch

[blair1q]

Figured it might be like that.
Personally I look for ways to peg the CPU. 8 cores at 2.8 GHz running web browsers ain't doing it most days.
I wonder if there's a patch for that.

Re:200-line patch

[Tetsujin]

i think that's the wonder of it

because i wonder what it will do, too

albeit, i haven't followed kernel fixes for years

i imagine someone's found a way to fake priority by treating a group of processes as one process when allocating cpu, because it solves one problem someone was having while causing someone else a problem

the example was forking 20 compile processes. normally that's a big speedup because when one has to pend on some i/o, another can pick up and do some work on your overall compile. with this new scheduling instead of 20 new processes crowding the few existing processes into much less cpu, now the 20 processes only act like one new process

which makes me wonder why you'd fork 20 processes any more, since they'll have only one process' share of the resource

That's not quite right.

Basically, there are lots of conditions that could cause any process to give up its time slice. Your network application may be waiting for packets to process. Your video player may have decoded all the compressed video it needs for the moment, etc. The idea here is that certain programs, even if they're not doing a whole lot of work at any given time, still need frequent service so they can keep doing what they need to do.

If your machine were running 3 processes (in separate groups) and you ran another 20 in a single group, those 20 processes wouldn't wind up limited to 25% of the CPU time. In all likelihood, they'd continue using the lion's share of the machine's resources until the job is done.

What this scheme does do is help out those other three processes: instead of getting 1 time slice each out of every 23 to see if they have work to do, they'll get one out of every four (via group scheduling). If they have a bunch of work to do, this means they'll effectively have higher priority than the individual processes in that big job. But if they're largely idle, the big job will be able to consume the left-over CPU time.

So it's not a perfect system, and it's not any kind of CPU quota system or QoS system, it doesn't really restrict what processes on the system can do. It's a hint for the scheduler, to try and give priority to processes that need it.

Re:200-line patch

[neokushan]

I didn't know about this, that was quite a fascinating read. However, I did find the last line of the first article particularly amusing - "As for me, I think I'll look into getting a Nokia N900. It looks much more open, with the code mostly all upstream, and a much more active developer community.".
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Re:200-line patch

[Timothy Brownawell]

(And if it's completely IO bound, there's never been any reason to fork it 20 ways.)

That depends on why it's IO bound. If you're saturating available bandwidth then yes, but for example if you're trying to crawl a bunch of really slow webservers on the far side of the internet (high round-trip time) then you'd really want to have several outstanding requests at any given time. Even if you're IO bound against local disk parallelism can sometimes help a little, since it gives the IO scheduler more to work with.

Re:200-line patch

[PhrstBrn]

Say you have a machine with 16 cores total. Person A runs a compile that runs on 16 processes. Person B runs a program that runs on 1 processor.

The old model says that Person A gets 16 shares, and Person B gets 1 share of CPU time. The new model says person A and B both get 50% share of the CPU time.

In the old model, Person A will hog all of 15 cores, and end up using about half of the 16th core. Person B will only be able to use 50% of one core. In the new model, Person A will be able to use all of 15 cores, and Person B will end up being able to use all of the 16th core.

You can see in the old model, Person B is penalized for only running one process, and Person A is monopolizing the CPU. In the new model, Person B is able to use all of 1 CPU, while Person A is able to use the reset of the cores without interfering with Person B.

Your compiles may run slower, but it won't interfere with everything else on the system because you wanted to hog all the resources. Each processor group has equal shares to processor time, not each process.

Re:200-line patch

[mr_lizard13]

the example was forking 20 compile processes. normally that's a big speedup

It's a forking hell.

Re:200-line patch

[Anonymous Coward]

Figured it might be like that.
Personally I look for ways to peg the CPU. 8 cores at 2.8 GHz running web browsers ain't doing it most days.
I wonder if there's a patch for that.

That's what the System Idle process is for. So it looks like you'll have to move to Windows if you want to utiize your system to the maximum.

Re:200-line patch

[pantherace]

Blender, yafaray, and some others, especially look at the fluid simulation (and turn up the resolution!)

There: all the 2.8GHz CPU pegging you want.

Re:200-line patch

[lee1]

Does this mean that it's as fast as BeOS now?

Re:200-line patch

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. But I remember some linux users saying we shouldn't patch the linux kernel with this. Instead it should be done on the fly on boot and change the values then through a daemon, which is ridiculous now that this is done. But that's what they were advocating. Just because you're smart, it doesn't mean you come up with smart ideas all the time.

Re:200-line patch

[vga_init]

In my opinion, Android isn't the first Linux-based project to rely on a custom kernel. I've seen many such systems pop up in the industry, most of them dead and gone now. The reason is that once the fork has been created, it falls out of development and becomes obsolete after a time. The Linux kernel has been customized and forked by projects countless times. What's going to happen is that the fork is simply going to become outdated and once it's obsolete, the current Linux kernel will have to be forked yet again. Re-forking becomes inevitable part of the project's continued development.

Re:200-line patch

[Runaway1956]

I don't see it having much if any impact on an Android device. In fact, relatively few desktop users will actually see any improvement. I'm not smart enough to get technical - but everything I've read seems to say that unless you are a multitasker who works his desktop pretty hard, the improvements will mean little to you.

One of the little tests that was offered to prove the usefulness of the wonder patch, was to do some routine things on your desktop, loading the CPU up near capacity. Once all your stuff was running, then start compiling something. The responsiveness of your desktop apps was not impacted by the background work, even though your CPU(s) was working hard.

So, unless you use your Android for some pretty intensive multi-tasking, no, you won't see any real difference in real use.

Re:200-line patch

[gmhowell]

Figured it might be like that.
Personally I look for ways to peg the CPU. 8 cores at 2.8 GHz running web browsers ain't doing it most days.
I wonder if there's a patch for that.

Yeah, it's called FlashPlayer.exe

Re:200-line patch

[Anonymous Coward]

In order for this to apply to Android, Google would have to port the changes over

</troll>

Bull. Good job on getting a blatant troll modded up, though. Here's the real truth.

Every time I update my Droid from Eclair to Froyo and now to Gingerbread, the kernel version is updated. from 2.29 to 2.32 to 2.35 and so on. So, Google may be forking Linux but you will still get the latest and greatest stuff from upstream because Google just forks a newer kernel everytime Android is upgraded. And for that matter, you can make the argument that every distro "forks" the kernel as they all apply some patches.

Re:200-line patch

[RobbieThe1st]

Possibly your Android's not as useful as my N900, but I routinely -do- load it up with a half-dozen programs and another half-dozen web windows. It works fine, but if you try to do any task that does compression/decompression... it lags things down. So, no background apt updates if you want to work.
I'd certainly make use of some of this... but I probably won't be able to unless someone backports it to 2.6.28 due to the damn proprietary graphics drivers.

Re:200-line patch

[smellotron]

(And if it's completely IO bound, there's never been any reason to fork it 20 ways.)

I can think of a few reasons:

1. Code with blocking I/O is easier to write than asynchronous I/O. The system calls are easier. The inter-task scheduling is managed People Who Get Paid To Do That instead of the local application developer, which means it's less prone to weird corner cases like starvation or lost signals.
2. Some per-process limitation crops up, such as a 32-bit memory space ceiling or a ulimit. Splitting tasks into multiple processes allows the kernel to manage a larger amount of resources (virtual memory, open file descriptors, what-have-you) than can any single process.
3. Some inherent unreliability exists in the system, such as dynamic linkage to plugins like FlashPlayer.exe or mod_php.so. Splitting tasks into multiple processes allows one of them to die in a fire after shitting all over its own stack.

Re:200-line patch

[Anonymous Coward]

What happens is that Linux devs come around and merge the changes back in. ucLinux maintained a fork all the way from 2.0 to well into 2.5 before it was folded back in. Android won't be any different.

(and my captcha is "merged")

Re:200-line patch

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, if you're going to compile a large piece of software on your smartphone, then this patch will certainly help keep the user experience up... Otherwise.. No effect.

Re:200-line patch

[Anonymous Coward]

"..which makes me wonder why you'd fork 20 processes any more..."

don't feel bad. not everyone can understand basic concepts of computer programming

Re:200-line patch

[kvvbassboy]

I would say most dektop users won't even notice this. It may prevent fork-heavy things like Chrome from starving other things, but the best cases to demonstrate was 'make -j ', in a terminal, which isn't particularly indicative of most user load.

Umm.. a poster above spoke about this patch in terms of Person A and Person B, so I am assuming it's a patch which distributes computing resources in a more fair manner among users accessing the system simultaneously. So, no desktop user will ever notice this as only one user accesses the machine ever. If this is what it is, it is extremely similar to a project I did two semesters back. xD

Re:200-line patch

[bedouin]

Linux will never achieve that feat.

Re:200-line patch

[kobaz]

Another alternative is using Con Kolivas' BFS, which reportedly shows similar improvements, not to mention actually pays attention to nice levels.

How do the current built in schedulers handle nice levels?

Re:200-line patch

[Anonymous Coward]

"Re-forking becomes inevitable part of the project's continued development."

Yes. In other words, Google will have to apply the patch to their version, if they won't maintain it in the mainstream Linux kernel. Tough titties.

Re:200-line patch

[Carewolf]

If you know bugger all about Linux, you probably wouldn't even see any difference on a desktop. This patch mainly do wonders for developers doing big parallel builds, and some automatic improvements if you have a classic multi-user server, but all the same improvements were available before this patch too, they just weren't automatic.

Re:200-line patch

[Carewolf]

That said. I find it cute that people wants to improve the user-experience when compiling big jobs on their android phones. That picture in itself, is something I highly approve of.

Re:200-line patch

[V!NCENT]

I remember that KateOS had it's own pacthed to hell kernel that would at any time try to utilize the CPU for the full 100%. You open up a text editor and you'll see the CPU spike from 0 to 100 and back, as fast as zzzzzZZZZZZ-BOOM!-zzzzzZZZZ.

Re:200-line patch

[Eunuchswear]

All those things are still true.

Yes, it's a bummer that Nokia have screwed up, but the N900 is still the only game in town if you want to run Linux on a phone.

Re:200-line patch

[Eunuchswear]

I'd certainly make use of some of this... but I probably won't be able to unless someone backports it to 2.6.28 due to the damn proprietary graphics drivers.

They are in user space aren't they? AFAIK there is no closed code in the N900 kernel.

Re:200-line patch

[Timmmm]

> the switch from TTY-based grouping to session ID-based grouping.

All GUI apps have the same session ID, so I don't see how this will affect things at all. Behold:

thutt@panic:~$ ps -eo session,pid,cmd | grep
  1630 12732 /home/timmmm/Matlab2010b/bin/glnxa64/MATLAB -desktop
  1630 19095 lyx
  1630 30014 /home/timmmm/Projects/lastfm-linux/Lastfm/lastfm-1.5.4.26862+dfsg/bin/last.fm
  1630 30605 gnome-terminal
  1630 29914 /opt/google/chrome/chrome

So if I do some crazy computation in matlab, or a compilation in an IDE this won't help me one bit.

Re:200-line patch

[AvitarX]

Doesn't BeOS lack things that one expects from an OS though, like users?

Re:200-line patch

[GooberToo]

I'm honestly not sure about stock kernels and even that likely varies from manufacturer to manufacturer, but many (most - all) third party roms do use process groups to allow for priority assignment and are heavily tweaked in this regard. This is one of the reasons why many third party roms seem to be more responsive than factory roms.

While I can't say for sure, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if this finds its way into android as this type of technology can go a long way toward reducing interface latency. For example, system services and launcher could be in two groups while use applications and services could be in a third. That means the CPU need only divided three ways, and sub-divided from there, rather than shared sixty ways which definitely drives up interface latency.

Re:200-line patch

[GooberToo]

Umm.. a poster above spoke about this patch in terms of Person A and Person B, so I am assuming it's a patch which distributes computing resources in a more fair manner among users accessing the system simultaneously. So, no desktop user will ever notice this as only one user accesses the machine ever. If this is what it is, it is extremely similar to a project I did two semesters back. xD

It doesn't really have anything directly to do with people. Instead of person A and B, think of it as process group A and B. The A and B can be associated with two difference people or one person and two different processes.

So to be absolutely clear, most desktop users absolutely will see a difference. Using the traditional example, you can now do a massive compile while listening to music and browse the web without any noticeable effect on music playing and web browsing, all the while the background compile is happily chugging along.

If we break that example down it looks something like this. Let's assume a compile of four processes and playing music and web browsing each take one process. The old scheduling means that the music player gets one unit of work scheduled out of every six. The same goes for the web browser. On the other hand, the compile gets four work units out of every six. If you only have four CPUs, that means some mix of two processes are always waiting to run. If that's your music player or web browser, you might discern some delay or skipping.

On the other hand, with process groups associated with sessions, your web browser and music player, each, now see one out of every three units. That more of less means they each get a dedicated CPU some some left over for the compile. Likewise, that means the compile gets a dedicated CPU and whatever the music player and web browser didn't use. That translates into the web browser and music player being able to run 16.3% more frequently and because of cpu affinity distribution is far more likely to experience lower latencies and higher cache hits.

Re:200-line patch

[bedouin]

LOL. Yes, but I'm still sour about its demise. Haiku is my only hope for a BeOS revival.

Re:200-line patch

[blair1q]

Flash? Feh. Barely keeps one core at 50% with hyperthreading turned on.

Re:200-line patch

[blair1q]

That's an application-design problem, not an OS problem. Tell your browser to increase the number of sockets it is allowed to open. The inet stack will take care of queueing them for you. The browser may or may not put them in separate threads to be dealt with on separate cores.

Re:200-line patch

[blair1q]

That's why it's so fast.

Re:200-line patch

[blair1q]

Now that's an interesting wrinkle. How does this scheme really interact with multiple processors and hyperthreading? If I have a 4-core, 2-hyperthread system (8 total effective schedulable CPU resources), and I have 3 processes running in 3 sessions then start 16 processes in another single session, all at the same priority, how are those processes scattered across my 16 hyperthreads when all of them get semaphored to wake up?

I'm starting to think more that this fix, while not deleterious to any previous system dynamics (other than taking a few extra instructions in each scheduler call), isn't going to change how most people see their machines running. It's more like a solution to a small set of problems. Kind of like how MS Word apps will scroll faster when you're selecting text if you drag the cursor off the bottom of the window and waggle it back and forth. Not sure how that works, but it's got to be something about the mouse interrupts kicking something loose in MS's botched UI. I bet it polls for input to see if you want something other than more scrolling, but if you move the mouse it doesn't have to poll. Some stupid shit like that.

Re:200-line patch

[PhrstBrn]

Agreed. Most of the time it shouldn't make difference. It's more advantageous for the case when somebody or some process spins off 100s of processes, or a server service goes out of control and spins off 1000s of processes. Before it would eat up all the CPU cycles, preventing any of the other critical services from doing anything, and likely crashing the server. Now that out-of-control service has no more resource potential than some other service that's functioning correctly.

It's not like this patch creates new resources out of thin air, but it sure will help prevent too many process bringing your machine to a halt.

Re:200-line patch

[AvitarX]

I should clarify that i mean user accounts, not users of the OS.

Re:200-line patch

[Anonymous Coward]

That last line of the first article still holds true. FreeRunner and N900 are the most open mobile devices out there. Developer community is everyone developing for Linux.

Re:200-line patch

[RobbieThe1st]

I'm not sure, but there's got to be -some- reason the heavily-modified 3rd party kernels are all based on the same version, especially when they had to backport some extra features to make it work.
I -heard- that it was graphics drivers, but I'm not sure - It's definitely -something- though.

Re:200-line patch

[Eunuchswear]

There are no proprietary kernel drivers in the N900. This means that it is possible to upgrade the kernel, if someone will have enough motivation and time for porting some things that are missing from mainline kernel.

http://www.forums.internettablettalk.com/showpost.php?p=559964&postcount=2

Re:200-line patch

[Junta]

most desktop users absolutely will see a difference...you can now do a massive compile

I stand by my point. *Most* desktop users aren't doing that. Chrome is probably the most 'mainstream' application that would produce a potentially busy large process group depending on tab count, but on the other hand they are genreally only interacting with that application at the time.

This is not to take away how much this change just makes sense and how much it can do for certain cases, but the way people talk it up sets expectations way too high.

WOW ! SERIOUSLY ? Windows is at VERSION SEVEN !!

[Anonymous Coward]

Much, much more advanced than a version two linux could ever be !!

Linsux must be for Luzerz !!

Enough of this!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do they keep baking shit directly into the kernel instead of making it a modular system where I can remove/add what I don't want?

Re:Enough of this!

[sslayer]

You mean like LKM, which has existed for, erm, like forever?

Re:Enough of this!

[Jon Stone]

Is that you, Tanenbaum?

Re:Enough of this!

[LordLimecat]

Roll your own kernel, and you can remove drivers you dont want. You can also add whatever patches you want.

Re:WOW ! SERIOUSLY ? Windows is at VERSION SEVEN !

[blair1q]

see what i mean about the value of anonymity?

Re:WOW ! SERIOUSLY ? Windows is at VERSION SEVEN !

[Anonymous Coward]

First: this is only the kernel. Ubuntu is on 10.10 (11.04 isn't far off), so that's a better comparison, and by that Ubuntu is a hell of a ways ahead of Windows, and it hasn't even been around as long!

Second: The NT Kernel in Windows 7 is only 6.1, and that's completely different version numbers than Linux uses. You could say that this is more like version 50 of the Linux kernel (probably beyond that).

Third: I'd rather use a kernel that was so good it never needed to surpass 2.6 than one that had so many problems it had to elevate to version 6 or even 6.1.

Last: Obviously troll, but I'm bored...

YOUR point's taken, but his? Come on... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

I value anonymity myself, ala:

"You will dress only in attire specially sanctioned by M.I.B. special services. You'll conform to the identity we give you. Eat where we tell you. Live where we tell you. From now on, you'll have no identifying marks of any kind. You will not stand out in any way. Your entire image is crafted to leave no lasting memory with anyone you encounter. You are a rumor, recognizable only as deja vu, and dismissed just as quickly. You don't exist. You were never even born. Anonymity is your name, silence is your native tongue. You are no longer part of the system. You are above the system, over it, beyond it. We're "them." We're "they." We are the Men in Black." - Zed, to Agent J & Agent K from the film "MEN IN BLACK"

But, his post here?

http://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2038926&cid=35497848

Man - It's way, Way, WAY "overboard", & designed to "piss off" the Penguins/Pro-*NIX crew around here... which is, of course, fine... but, just too obvious!

(You've got to be more "subtle" I would say to he! How so? Ok, watch below... lol!)

Now, IF one was to really wish to get the Penguins' "feathers ruffled" a wee bit? Well, all one has to do, is cite statistics like these from a respected source for security vulnerabilities, like this one:

---

Windows 7 Known Vulnerabilities: (03/15/2011)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/27467/?task=advisories

Unpatched 10% (6 of 59 Secunia advisories)

Sure - 3 are remote... but, they only affect you IF you use those portions, or their "work arounds" (which I do both here).

---

vs.

---

Linux KERNEL 2.6x Known Vulnerabilities: (03/15/2011)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/2719/

Unpatched 7% (17 of 256 Secunia advisories)

(HOWEVER - THAT? That is ONLY THE KERNEL ALONE)

---

Thus, this count of known vulnerabilities only gets WORSE when the other portions of a complete Linux (again, such as Gnome/KDE/xfce & Windows managers + more)

APK

P.S.=> THAT's how you get "the boys" here going... with stats/facts... pisses them off, to NO end, lol... However!

The only NICE part is, he was instantly "down modded", & so THAT may "hide me" from the inevitable trolls "Adjustment Bureau" that lurks around here to troll anyone that says ANYTHING "negative" (even if true) about *NIX variants... lmao! apk

Re:YOUR point's taken, but his? Come on... apk

[blair1q]

You have to multiply the vulnerability by the number of bad-actors attempting to exploit it to determine how vulnerable it makes you.

So, more Windows computers browsing the web (by a factor of like a billion, man) means more black-hats will target Windows computers. Makes Linux computers comparatively safer from that sort of annoyance.

Not that I care. I use both and deal with what comes out of either. They both find ways to annoy several times a month, they just have different excuses ("oh i have to support billions of users!", "oh i have to be developed by random unpaid wannabes"). Makes one want to use smartphones for everything, but that has its foibles ("oh i have a tiny little screen and nobody designs webpages that tall and narrow").

Re:YOUR point's taken, but his? Come on... apk

[WorBlux]

Look at it a little closer.

In 2010 (last full year)

Windows 7 - 47 (87% patched)

Linux 2.6 - 47 (94% patched)

But look a little deeper and you find something more interesting

Remote vulnerabilities

Windows - 55%

Linux - 9%

Criticality

Windows - 6% not, 36% less, 17% moderately, 40% highly.

Linux - 47% not c, 49% Less, 4% Moderate

Impact for System Access

Windows - 47%

Linux - 1%

Not all bugs and vulnerabilities are made equal or are equally important. Every program no matter how good, will have bugs, and some bugs will be exploitable. Your comparison is also flawed as 2.6 is much older than windows 7. (By a factor of about 5) Your reasoning is further flawed as a list of of windows vulnerability doesn't include, word, above, acrobat, or IE exploits. which will also add a number of vulnerabilities to a home desktop windows system.

Re:YOUR point's taken, but his? Come on... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Now, THAT's a brilliant example of the art of trolling. I really regret not having a "+1 Troll" available.
Thus, in a mixed-feeling state of mind, I resolved to "troll the moding system" - thus "+1 Funny" for you, sir.

Misleading article

[Edmund Blackadder]

It is great news that the Linux kernel performance keeps improving, and nowadays you can get the fastest performing commonly used OS for free. But I have to point out that the way the slashdot summary was written is misleading. The slashdot summary has the following quote:

'"This patch series was both controversial and experimental when it went in, but we're very hopeful of seeing speedups," James Bottomley, distinguished engineer at Novell said. "Just to set expectations correctly, the dcache/path lookup improvements really only impact workloads with large metadata modifications, so the big iron workloads (like databases) will likely see no change. However, stuff that critically involves metadata, like running a mail server (the postmark benchmark) should improve quite a bit."'

If you read the actual article you will notice that this quote refers only to the RCU portion. Other aspects like transparent huge pages are not controversial and they will improve database performance.

Re:Misleading article

[Anonymous Coward]

The automatic process grouping is still controversial.

Re:Misleading article

[Megaweapon]

But I have to point out that the way the slashdot summary was written is misleading.

You must be new.

A kernel for today's world

[diegocg]

B.A.T.M.A.N. mesh protocol (which helps to provide network connectivity in the presence of natural disasters, military conflicts or Internet censorship)

Looking at what happened recently in Japan, Lybia or Egypt...it seems a feature that I would like to have in my system. Just in case...

Re:A kernel for today's world

[Anonymous Coward]

Just tell me where you live, I'll drive by to use with your mesh AP for some nasty little things.

Re:A kernel for today's world

[Anonymous Coward]

What, no R.O.B.I.N.?

Re:A kernel for today's world

[Compaqt]

Unfortunately, if you saw the picture of the rebel media center in Benghazi at BoingBoing, those guys are using Windows XP. How can we promote free and legal alternatives to free and illegal (cheap XP CDs)?

Re:A kernel for today's world

[snadrus]

They want "what the rest of the world uses" == "what's been advertised". Promote it with CDs, Google Trends for Linux vs Microsoft Windows (especially if excluding the US). Legal doesn't matter to a country in revolution, but freedom (knowing it's not a spy/sabotage platform) via peer-review does.

Re:A kernel for today's world

[Anonymous Coward]

Way ahead of you, Batman:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round-robin_networks

SPEED is why (microkernel vs. monolithic)

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject-line, & this:

"Why do they keep baking shit directly into the kernel instead of making it a modular system where I can remove/add what I don't want?" - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 15, @07:04PM (#35497896)

The other AC's reference to Tannenbaum (sp?) is ALL about what's in my subject-line... & monolithic architectures are typically FASTER than microkernels are (less overheads going between "rings" of privelege, &/or subsystems).

(Now, I am not sure if you are just being sarcastic, or you're actually sincere in your reply but... well, there ya are!)

APK

P.S.=> The best bet, today? Do what Windows NT-based OS' do: A "hybrid" of BOTH, from what I understand... &, it works!

DISCLAIMER:

Yes - Still, I like Linux though, even though I "rib" on the folks here who use it - I say that, because I consider it a "socio-cultural phenomenon" that proves folks from the entire world over CAN work together & do something pretty good!

(Hey, I used it myself for the 5th time since 1992 recently, in KUbuntu 10.10x... that was for 8-9 months or so, & yes, it was PRETTY GOOD. That is, until it "blew itself up" from its own package mgt. system in KUbuntu that f'd up my entire KDE shell! It was to the point that I booted into console/tty shell only, & even "startx" didn't work!)

That? That pissed me off!

I will just do as I always have, & that's wait again for improvements awhile before trying Linux again - as I have before, with YEARS between tries to see if things got better!

(Yes - they always do, but NEVER QUITE to the levels of Windows is all (volume mgt. & group/users mgt. tools, anyone? NO comparison!))... apk

Re:SPEED is why (microkernel vs. monolithic)

[Anonymous Coward]

All that formatting you put into your text is funny.

faster as in...

[xmorg]

You know every new version of windows claimed to be "faster" but that was provided you had double the amount of ram you had with the older version.
What do you mean by "faster"?

I agree on your point ("security-by-obscurity")

[Anonymous Coward]

It works, yes, I agree with you... & the Penguins DO get to enjoy that much, per your point next below quoted:

"You have to multiply the vulnerability by the number of bad-actors attempting to exploit it to determine how vulnerable it makes you." - by blair1q (305137) on Tuesday March 15, @07:38PM (#35498242)

Agreed, see above... "security-by-obscurity" sort of "works" because it's not presenting as large a single target to attack (large by USER base that is: Spelled sideways to "hacker/cracker" types, meaning more chumps/victims possible from 1 single codebase for attack, etc.).

"Hacker/Cracker" (blackhat/bad type)? They're JUST LIKE PICKPOCKETS, & pickpockets do NOT operate on "crowds of 1" typically... they go after CROWDS (malls, subways, bus & train stations, you-name-it).

I agree... but, with a "positive note" on that account, for Windows, too!

I believe (based on what happened w/ MacOS X for example) that the MORE Linux gets used? The more it WILL be attacked... what evidences this for me??

ANDROID!

(It's showing you ALL just how "vulnerable" Linux, really TRULY is... albeit the JAVA interface isn't helping, that is certain (swiss cheese)).

I.E./"Bottom-line": IF Linux ever sees the "Year of the Linux Desktop"? It's going to undergo the SAME level of attack that MacOS X has, & ANDROID too... & they will NOT be prepared, or rather, AS PREPARED as are Microsoft after decades of attacks on their wares!

APK

P.S.=>

"Not that I care. I use both and deal with what comes out of either" - by blair1q (305137) on Tuesday March 15, @07:38PM (#35498242)

Agreed again, as DID I (I was using KUbuntu 10.10x this round, but it blew itself up out of its own package mgt. tool, which "blew me away"... it literally WRECKED the KDE shell itself on an update... pissed me OFF huge actually! It was to the point startx didn't even work @ bootup to console mode!)

apk

Re:I agree on your point ("security-by-obscurity")

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard that linux was vulnerable to /etc/hosts files. Have you heard about that?

A whole lot faster?

[kwerle]

What does that mean? Is it like 20% faster? I dunno - I think 5% would be a lot faster. But .5% or less? what are we talking about, here?

Re:A whole lot faster?

[CaseCrash]

Every slashdot article about a new linux release says it's way faster. If reality matched the posts, linux would be running faster than light and self-aware

Re:A whole lot faster?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm looking for the huge pages support. It provides 20% for my app, but I can't use libhugetlbfs because it doesn't work with multiple arenas in malloc. I'm looking forward to testing out the huge page support to see if there are fragmentation issues on my system.

Re:A whole lot faster?

[Anonymous Coward]

phoronix.com

Re:A whole lot faster?

[Ant P.]

THP makes memory-heavy stuff anywhere up to 5% faster based on some quick testing I did with it on folding@home.

Re:A whole lot faster?

[kwerle]

THP makes memory-heavy stuff anywhere up to 5% faster based on some quick testing I did with it on folding@home.

5% is pretty impressive for a kernel update.

Don't forget the GNU

[Anonymous Coward]

Or has the interview earlier today with Richard Stallman taught us nothing?

Good detailed summary

[tick-tock-atona]

The H Open:
http://www.h-online.com/open/features/What-s-new-in-Linux-2-6-38-1205467.html

Minor Update

[Anonymous Coward]

2.6.36 to 2.6.38? Tell me when there's an actual update.

(Fair turnaround for the bitching about Apple's "minor" 10.x.y updates.)

Re:Minor Update

[BuddaLicious]

Fair Turnabout implies the situation is the same, but turned around. That is not the case here. Difference being that Linus is NOT out there behind a podium telling a crowd of people that "this is best brand New Version of Linux EVER, and it's totally different and better"
Without a figurehead idiot trumping up this update its just not the same thing. You can't really blame the Linux community for being interested in a update to their software can you? It's not like they are making grandiose claims or holding press large press conferences that this is "the next big thing" (like Apple and others routinely do for their basic updates).

Glad you enjoyed it, "we aim to please" etc./et al

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject-line above, & thank you!

APK

A Marketing Coup!

[rueger]

Transparent Huge Pages

It doesn't matter what that is*, it's got "Buy Me!" written all over it!

OSX might have the Dock, and Windows might be up to version 7, but my Ubuntu machine has Transparent Huge Pages!


*save your breath, I actually looked it up.

Re:A Marketing Coup!

[Mr Z]

I have 16GB RAM in my 64-bit machine at home. I actually look forward to THP, since any process that actually benefits from that much RAM would also benefit from THP if it isn't already using hugetlbfs. As far as I can tell, hugetlbfs almost never gets used, so that means just about any process that I'd run that needs that much RAM would benefit from THP.

The other day I edited a page-sized full color scan in The Gimp at 600 DPI without swapping. That was actually pretty cool. That's an app that'd benefit from THP.

Re:A Marketing Coup!

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows is _not_ at version 7. Windows 6.1 is called Windows 7 to illustrate that it's 2 better than XP. Otherwise it'd only be 0.9 better and nobody wants to buy something that's just 0.9 better.

Re:A Marketing Coup!

[Compaqt]

Would you mind sharing the specs on your rig? I might be needing to buy a new system this year.

Re:A Marketing Coup!

[Fallingcow]

The Dock is the opposite of a selling point.

Wait, I take that back--it does look awesome on a demo machine, so I guess it helps sales after all.

Re:A Marketing Coup!

[Mr Z]

It wasn't anything too special. I built a pretty basic Phenom II x4 box. Here's a cut/paste from my Newegg receipt, minus prices.

• 1 x CASE NZXT| PHAN-001WT RT
• 1 x PSU ROSEWILL|RBR1000-M 1000W RT
• 4 x MEM 4G|CORSAIR XMS CMX4GX3M1A1600C7
• 1 x HD 1.5T|WD 7K 64M WD1501FASS % - OEM
• 1 x CPU AMD|PH II X4 965 3.4G AM3 RT
• 1 x MB GIGABYTE|GA-880GA-UD3H R

Now, I didn't buy a fancy video card. That total rig, though, cost me less than $1K and that was a few months ago.

As always, XKCD seems apropos

[mhotchin]

http://xkcd.com/619/

Re:As always, XKCD seems apropos

[jabjoe]

Go on then, I'll bite.
That's not Linux's problem, it's Adobe's and the graphics card manufacturers. Loads of reimplimenting of closed stuff needs to happen for it to be Linux's fault. (That's Linux as a platform, not as just a kernel) With Gallium/DRM/KMS/Wayland/etc and HTML5 hopefully it will be Linux's problem and will all go away nicely. Having said all that, works ok for me now with the closed Flash player and the closed NVidia drivers. It's just unpalatable (and you are left in the slow lane of X developments, oh and booting is ugly and you can't switch virtual tty safely or fast).

Re:As always, XKCD seems apropos

[bloodninja]

It _is_ Linux's problem. It might not be Linux's fault, but it is Linux's problem.

Re:As always, XKCD seems apropos

[Threni]

To be fair, with 2,048 CPUs, Flash will probably be running vaguely acceptably.

libre version

[Anonymous Coward]

libre version is here: http://www.fsfla.org/svnwiki/selibre/linux-libre/download/releases/2.6.38-libre/

http://www.fsfla.org/svnwiki/selibre/linux-libre/#downloads

.38 in Natty?

[Anonymous Coward]

Now i'm curious if Ubuntu 11.04 aka Natty Narwhal will ship Linux 2.6.38

Re:.38 in Natty?

[xie]

Now i'm curious if Ubuntu 11.04 aka Natty Narwhal will ship Linux 2.6.38

According to Natty alpha site it will ... http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/natty/alpha3

Re:.38 in Natty?

[drinkypoo]

More to the point it already has and it works OK, I will be moving to natty soon. I finally gave up on vmware and installed XP to a disk on my PC (last time I tried I got black screens reliably, installed from the same CD that I got black screens from before, no BIOS updates since... OMGIGABYTEWTFBBQ.) I can only imagine that a recent nVidia driver for Linux did something to my GT240 that fixed the problem. Microcode update? Anyway vmware player not working on natty was the last reason I had to stick with Maverick, so I anticipate making the upgrade very soon. I need to install much more software first.

I've booted natty (on 2.6.38) from an OCZ Rally2 16GB and it seemed fairly peppy. All major functionality seems to work except that I inexplicably have two network managers and I can't seem to remove them. Have done zero homework or even snooping of gconf since I have been messing with my new XP install (which bluescreened with STOP c000021a 0xc0000135 after the first round of updates, probably due to AMD chipset drivers, didn't load them again of course on the reinstall. upgrade-in-place failed of course. Too late to install Watson on that go 'round. Now I have a backup of a working install :p

It's been a couple days since I updated natty so I've chroot'ed in from maverick (I kinda whacked my maverick install on the bleeding edge of PPAs, compizfail) and I'm updating it again. Perhaps I'll give it a reboot in a moment.

A windows utility bundled with the system claimed I was getting CPU idle power down to about 10 watts from 30. Outstanding. I wonder what it's like in Linux.

P.S. All hail debootstrap. All hail debian!

Linux 38

[Anonymous Coward]

If they are never going to go past 2.6 shouldn't we just start saying Linux 38 is out. Then you could get everyone else to ditch Windows 7 because Linux 38 is like more than 5 times better.

Re:Linux 38

[NotBorg]

That be version 38 of the 2.6 kernel. If you want a flat single number version, it would be higher than 38, right? Eat kernel shorts Google Chrome!!!!

"ReVeRsE PsYcHoLoGy" @ work (lol)

[Anonymous Coward]

"?that about heard you Have files. /etc/hosts to vulnerable was linux that heard I " - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 15, @09:38PM (#35499152)

Yea... "ok", lol!

APK

Re:"ReVeRsE PsYcHoLoGy" @ work (lol)

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, you are freaking nutcase. But, God you're hilarious with that host file crap.

Question: How does it feel to be dissected? LOL!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Look at it a little closer." - by WorBlux (1751716) on Tuesday March 15, @09:51PM (#35499228)

Oh, lets! All the "spin-CON-troll" in the world from the "Pro-*NIX consortium" of troll "Adjustment Bureau" wannabes have tried, might as well pull you apart too! Here we go:

---

" In 2010 (last full year) Windows 7 - 47 (87% patched) Linux 2.6 - 47 (94% patched)" - by WorBlux (1751716) on Tuesday March 15, @09:51PM (#35499228)

LOL, yea, ok: Yea... lol, that "looks good for you", NOT!

An 8 or more year old LINUX KERNEL ONLY (let's NOT also account for ALL THE OTHER PARTS THAT MAKE UP LINUX TOO THAT COMPOUND THAT SEC. VULN LIST MORE, lol), has had to fix MORE BUGS than a 1 yr. old COMPLETE OS?

In keeping with the MIB theme here I established in my replies to a normal poster, not trolls like you?

"LINUX = OLD & BUSTED" vs. the "new hotness", Windows 7!

LMAO!

---

"But look a little deeper and you find something more interesting" - by WorBlux (1751716) on Tuesday March 15, @09:51PM (#35499228)

You sure? Especially AFTER the above?? I mean, I just rode you like a bronco... you just MUST be tired! LOL!

---

Man, this NEXT below? You MUST be a "skimmer troll", because I covered THAT in my posts to VALID POSTERS (no, not trolls like you) already!

"Remote vulnerabilities Windows - 55%
Linux - 9% Criticality Windows - 6% not, 36% less, 17% moderately, 40% highly. Linux - 47% not c, 49% Less, 4% Moderate Impact for System Access Windows - 47%
Linux - 1%" - by WorBlux (1751716) on Tuesday March 15, @09:51PM (#35499228)

If I don't use the subsystems on Windows involved (which I don't)? How the HELL are they going to affect me adversely?? Answer = THEY WON'T!

Linux, on the other hand?? LOL, take a look @ ANDROID (it's a LINUX after all).

---

"Not all bugs and vulnerabilities are made equal or are equally important." - by WorBlux (1751716) on Tuesday March 15, @09:51PM (#35499228)

First, did I say they were? No. What gave you that idea?? Your delusions of grandeur that made you *THINK* you could take me on?? Bad move... lol, see above!

---

"Every program no matter how good, will have bugs, and some bugs will be exploitable." - by WorBlux (1751716) on Tuesday March 15, @09:51PM (#35499228)

Gosh... "I didn't KNOW that!" (sarcasm, lol). Now, picture "BUBBLES" from "Trailer Park Boys" saying that, lol, ok?

---

"Your comparison is also flawed as 2.6 is much older than windows 7." - by WorBlux (1751716) on Tuesday March 15, @09:51PM (#35499228)

LOL, not really... see above (old & busted Linux vs. "the new hotness" Windows 7)

---

"(By a factor of about 5) Your reasoning is further flawed as a list of of windows vulnerability doesn't include, word, above, acrobat, or IE exploits." - by WorBlux (1751716) on Tuesday March 15, @09:51PM (#35499228)

Well hell, let me toss on holes in the numerous apps Linux has floating on it too, only MORE of them, chock full of holes then, eh?

(That's really poor, piss poor strawman logic! So, please... cut the invalid reasoning already - it's making YOU look bad in front of ALL your "geek admiring public", lol, already!)

---

"which will also add a number of vulnerabilities to a home desktop windows system." - by WorBlux (1751716) on Tuesday March 15, @09:51PM (#35499228)

Again, please... I can say the same of Linux, and have even MORE "bugs pop outta the woodwork for it" ( & MORE than Windows 7 has, that's for sure, lol!)

APK

P.S.=> Ah, man... as is my USUAL style? I just GOTTA say it: This? This was just "too, Too, TOO EASY - just '2EZ'" (which ticks me off, because "the infamous they" say that /. has the "most proficient geeks"? B.S., lol!)... apk

Can't wait

[Bengie]

I can't wait until I can switch over from Windows. All I'm waiting for is Direct 3D 11 support and fast stable graphics drivers. When I don't need to dual boot to play my games the way they were meant to be played, then I'm running on over.

Re:Can't wait

[snadrus]

D3D11 has a Gallium state tracker now. Getting Wine using it's another story. Of-course the Gallium drivers are being reverse-engineered for NV & ATI since they won't share spec, code, or blobs, but this kernel & the next both have serious improvements in those areas. I recently got an Intel Sandy-Bridge laptop (i5) since it's got the best open-source video card built-in at the moment. It plays StarCraft 2 nicely in Linux. It doesn't compare to $1000 Windows rigs but was half that price total and plays everything I've found.

Re:WOW ! SERIOUSLY ? Windows is at VERSION SEVEN !

[Anonymous Coward]

FUFUFUFUFUFUFUFU

Windows NT started at 3.1

And the kurrent kernel says 6.1

so that's only like version 3

which by the way is how long it ALWAYS takes MicroShaft to get a decent version out

Troll: is YOUR fav. color "transparent"?

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean, please... give me a break with this b.s.:

"Dude, you are freaking nutcase." - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 16, @12:17AM (#35500176)

Wait a second: For once, *I* am going to play "sidewalk psychiatrist" here, not you (for all the times you dweebs have to resort to off topic b.s. & calling ME "nuts" etc./et al)

I did already (per my "ReVeRsE PsYcHoLoGy" reply to your gibberish)... you?

You're just "biting off my style"... no creativity, originality, or let's face it: STYLE, on your end!

(Fact is, I gotta say it? You WISH you were me, lol!)

----

"But, God you're hilarious with that host file crap." - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 16, @12:17AM (#35500176)

Not really, because after all? YOU BROUGHT HOSTS UP, not I! ... & speaking of which?

I just added another 365 new entries to my HOSTS file... for a grand total of 942,014 known bogus hosts-domains I am for sure, 100%, protected against while you wrote that... are you that protected by ANYTHING you use?

APK

P.S.=> Man... seriously: I have seen /. rated as "the 'top-tech' site" online... & this is the "best you've got" in off-topic adhominem attacks & such? Please... talk about "too, Too, TOO EASY - just '2EZ'"... especially vs. such transparent fools! apk

No Fusion for you

[furbearntrout]

Fucked up free Radeon drivers. Back to Fglrx for now. Crap.

This release adds support for the AMD Fusion GPU+CPUs

Only if you want your box to reboot if you try a serious game. Maybe next time.

"Linux is AHEAD" (I agree, in KNOWN BUGS, lol!)

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea, it's "ahead alright", lol, in KNOWN BUGS, and it's OLDER too (i.e.-> Should be LESS bug prone because of "experience" & "all those eyes" from the "OPEN SORES" world (of which MAYBE 1% is really truly active in it, instead of b.s.'ing on /. here, lol & the other 1/2 are from Oracle &/or IBM))...

Plus? That's ONLY A KERNEL as you said... &, to that? Here we go:

"First: this is only the kernel. Ubuntu is on 10.10 (11.04 isn't far off), so that's a better comparison, and by that Ubuntu is a hell of a ways ahead of Windows, and it hasn't even been around as long!" - by Anonymous Coward FROM THE /. TROLL "Pro-*NIX ADJUSTMENT BUREAU", lol on Tuesday March 15, @07:26PM (#35498130)

Yes, as you stated... that's ONLY A KERNEL only too, lol, toss on bugs from KDE/Gnome/xfce etc. & also Windows managers + all the OTHER parts that make up a FULL linux distro... (because THAT would be what you'd REALLY have to "equate" to Windows 7)?

The # goes up... way, Way, WAY up. You *THINK* about that...

BUT, LOL... "Linux is 'ahead'" alright, lol... ahead in MORE BUGS (kernel only no less, minus the parts for a FULL distro, vs. Windows 7 in its ENTIRETY):

In fact - Let's use statistics like these from a respected source for security vulnerabilities, like this one, to back me:

---

Windows 7 Known Vulnerabilities: (03/15/2011)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/27467/?task=advisories

Unpatched 10% (6 of 59 Secunia advisories)

Sure - 3 are remote... but, they only affect you IF you use those portions, or their "work arounds", to avoid them (which I do both here - I don't use F'd up subsytems, I don't need them is why).

---

vs.

---

Linux KERNEL 2.6x Known Vulnerabilities: (03/15/2011)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/2719/

Unpatched 7% (17 of 256 Secunia advisories)

(HOWEVER, again- THAT? That is ONLY THE KERNEL ALONE, not a FULL distro in its entirety (which IS, what Windows 7 basically IS, in the MS world) - so "toss on" the other parts of a Linux distro, lol, watch that number "pull a SUPERMAN" (ala "up, Up, & AWAY", lol!))

---

Still, let's "do the math" & last time I CHECKED? LOL, 6 was LESS THAN 17!!!

(Or has "trollism" blunted your math skillz? LOL!)

---

"Second: The NT Kernel in Windows 7 is only 6.1, and that's completely different version numbers than Linux uses. You could say that this is more like version 50 of the Linux kernel (probably beyond that)" - by Anonymous Coward FROM THE /. TROLL "Pro-*NIX ADJUSTMENT BUREAU", lol on Tuesday March 15, @07:26PM (#35498130)

They're BOTH the same relative age... &, around the year 1992-1994 (NT 3.5x & Slackware Linux (one I used then) 1.0) for becoming TRULY available to the masses... yes, there are earlier versions, but those are the ones folks got ahold of, en-masse, first ( yes, I was "there" for both & on both).

(And, face it: Linux 2.6x IS way older & therefore OUGHT to have less bugs, due to "all those 'Open SORES' (LOL) eyes poring over it (those that don't 'troll' others here like "some people" do, (you) w/ your "faulty 'spin-CON-troll", lol, 'forums - pseudologic'))

And yet? Linux 2.6, despite its "old & busted" age vs. "the new hotness", in Windows 7?? Yes, it has MORE SECURITY BUGS... funny that, eh?? I thought "Linux was SO secure"... see ANDROID on that note (lol, it's a LINUX after all!).

---

Third: I'd rather use a kernel that was so good it never needed to surpass 2.6 than one that had so many problems it had to elevate to version 6 or even 6.1." - by Anonymous

Seems Linux has MORE known bugs, lol! apk

[Anonymous Coward]

"which by the way is how long it ALWAYS takes MicroShaft to get a decent version out" - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 15, @11:57PM (#35500084)

You SURE about that? I mean, which has MORE KNOWN BUGS in it, Linux latest/greatest, or Windows7?

So.... lol, Let's look, & do some math, shall we? Sure... here 'tis:

---

Windows 7 Known Vulnerabilities: (03/15/2011)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/27467/?task=advisories

Unpatched 10% (6 of 59 Secunia advisories)

Sure - 3 are remote... but, they only affect you IF you use those portions, or their "work arounds", to avoid them (which I do both here - I don't use F'd up subsytems, I don't need them is why).

---

vs.

---

Linux KERNEL 2.6x Known Vulnerabilities: (03/15/2011)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/2719/

Unpatched 7% (17 of 256 Secunia advisories)

(HOWEVER, again- THAT? That is ONLY THE KERNEL ALONE, not a FULL distro in its entirety (which IS, what Windows 7 basically IS, in the MS world) - so "toss on" the other parts of a Linux distro, lol, watch that number "pull a SUPERMAN" (ala "up, Up, & AWAY", lol!))

---

Still, let's "do the math" & last time I CHECKED? LOL, 6 was LESS THAN 17!!!

(Or has "trollism" blunted your "L33t /. troll math skillz"? LOL!)

APK

P.S.=> "Read 'em & WEEP", & "Argue w/ the #'s" & good luck... reality & truth? Must HURT, lol... apk

Re:Seems Linux has MORE known bugs, lol! apk

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL! You CRA(CK me UP), dude...lol... akp

PS: lol

Like "LT" did, ripping off MINIX?

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject as it's "end of subject" here.

State of SSD support?

[jones_supa]

I'm still curious about SSD support. Yes, TRIM command is supported but is it actually connected to the filesystems? Partition alignment is also a bit of a mystery, but according to some rumors, recent Ubuntu installers get it right.

Re:State of SSD support?

[Anonymous Coward]

Partitions alignment is done by utilities like fdisk and parted. Latest versions have been fixed to choose the best possible alignment , so all distributions including recent versions of these utilities, should be fine normally.

Re:State of SSD support?

[Skapare]

Proper partition alignment has been a long term issue that was ignored for at least a decade. Now that it is happening, the common alignment (1M, 2048 legacy sectors) might now need to change (2M, 4096 legacy sectors). In a few years, people might even get over the loss of another 2M of dirt cheap disk space (don't forget that we're all going to GPT which has another partition table at the end of the drive).

Re:State of SSD support?

[Skapare]

Are you assuming that when one does an upgrade, it automatically re-aligns the partition starting points?

Re:State of SSD support?

[sbalneav]

TRIM support works on recent kernels, and EXT4 filesystems, for me. You just have to make sure you mount with -o discard

Waiting for Phoronix benchmark

[Anonymous Coward]

We'll just have to wait for Phoronix to benchmark the new kernel with their usual mp3-encoding and SSL-crypto benchmarks.

Ps. 2.6.38 since first rc's has been the only way to use Radeon 4800 with Ubuntu Maverick without random-and-permanent-until-next-reboot-display-corruption. I strongly suggest using Natty's 2.6.38 to the others too.

Re:Question: How does it feel to be dissected? LOL

[Ginger Unicorn]

You forgot to add:

EARTH HAS 4 CORNER

SIMULTANEOUS 4-DAY

TIME CUBE

IN ONLY 24 HOUR ROTATION.

4 CORNER DAYS, CUBES 4 QUAD EARTH- No 1 Day God.

Ketracel White

[ThatsNotPudding]

"Forking is Life."

Getting rid of Dmraid

[Zarhan]

I've been running using dmraid in RAID 5 configuration - I need to use Intel's fakeraid to facilitate dual-booting to Windows. Does this commit

http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux-2.6.git;a=commitdiff;h=9d09e663d5502c46f2d9481c04c1087e1c2da698

mean that I no longer need to hunt patches for dmraid5 but can just use vanilla kernel from now on?

Switched back to Windows 7

[Anonymous Coward]

Got tired of hardware compatability problems and trying to keep my system running. Switched to Windows 7 last weekend. Guess what!!! Everything works the way it should.

Re:Switched back to Windows 7

[Turiko]

I've had the opposite happen quite often with older pc's - drivers for windows xp that should work are buggy, no drivers for 7. Put on ubuntu, it works :).

Re:Switched back to Windows 7

[Anonymous Coward]

That's interesting, usually it's other way around, except for high-end graphics cards (read: ATI). What hardware you got?

You can't even get "impersonating me" right!

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject-line above, & this tragedy of yours quoted next below:

"LOL! You CRA(CK me UP), dude...lol... akp PS: lol" - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 16, @04:50AM (#35501218)

Ahem: "I rest my case"...

APK

An offtopic reply "best you've got"? Apparently!

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject-line above, & "I rest my case" (you made it for me with that line of utter off topic b.s. after all).

APK

Using documented facts isn't trolling... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

See my subject-line above, & this:

"Now, THAT's a brilliant example of the art of trolling." - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 15, @11:00PM (#35499710)

Telling the truth via citing documented, concrete, & completely verifiable facts from a reputable website for security data isn't trolling... it's just telling it how it is/the truth!

(Which seems to set the trolls on fire around here, lol!)

---

"I really regret not having a "+1 Troll" available." - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 15, @11:00PM (#35499710)

Don't credit ME with it, I only cited verifiable correct information, showing Linux has MORE BUGS UNPATCHED on the security-front, than does Windows 7 (both are "latest/greatest" from both camps), ala:

---

Windows 7 Known Vulnerabilities: (03/15/2011)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/27467/?task=advisories

Unpatched 10% (6of 59 Secunia advisories)

Sure - 3 are remote... but, they only affect you IF you use those faulty portions

(E.G. - I don't do FAXING from a PC, & that's NOT INSTALLED BY DEFAULT as a subsystem on Windows 7 anyhow, & I don't use ITunes or other Apple apps (these are known sources of a problem in another vuln here), etc., or IF you use MS' "work arounds" (such as the MHTML bug has)).

---

vs.

---

Linux KERNEL 2.6x Known Vulnerabilities: (03/15/2011)

http://secunia.com/advisories/product/2719/

Unpatched 7% (17 of 256 Secunia advisories)

(HOWEVER - THAT? That is ONLY THE KERNEL ALONE - toss on the REST of what makes up a Linux distro, such as the KDE/Gnome/xfce shells, Window managers, browsers built in etc.? That # goes up even MORE & would be a more "fair" comparison, complete OS vs. complete OS distro!)

---

NOW, LAST TIME I CHECKED? 6 is less than 17! & in this case? LESS TRULY IS, MORE!

---

"Thus, in a mixed-feeling state of mind, I resolved to "troll the moding system" - thus "+1 Funny" for you, sir." - by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 15, @11:00PM (#35499710)

I don't see how TRUTH is funny, but, suit yourself... & what I find FUNNY, is that for YEARS to DECADES, I kept hearing "Linux is more secure than Windows" (same w/ MacOS X too) & yet?

Neither one in their "latest/greatest" incarnations appears to have less known security vulnerabilities than Windows 7!

APK

P.S.=> Facts, ARE FACTS, & "argue w/ the #'s" Penguins... apk

Punchcard support!

[CSMoran]

http://kernelnewbies.org/Linux_2_6_38 says:
> Core:
> - Add hole punching support to fallocate() (commit)

Good to see the efforts towards backward compatibility, I often wondered why punchcard support was lacking in previous releases.

Re:Question: How does it feel to be dissected? LOL

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't forget the poor babys. Apparently Slashdot now has its own personal time cube guy.

Off topic replies NEED NOT APPLY

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject-line, & this:

"Don't forget the poor babys. Apparently Slashdot now has its own personal time cube guy." - by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday March 16, @11:16AM (#35504202)

Sure, sure... One that cites documented, concrete, & VERIFIABLE facts that blew you TROLLS, away... and showed you ALL how "secure" these *NIX variants really are, vs. Windows 7.

APK

P.S.=> I mean, hey - after all: IF the "best you've got" is off topic replies & "pseudo-subtle" ad hominem attacks (attempting to attack MYSELF, rather than my points & data)? I'll let the FACTS (from SECUNIA) speak for themselves... so, as per usual, in my inimitable style? Well, I just GOTTA say it:

This was just "too, Too, TOO EASY - just '2EZ'" vs. the trolls of /. ... apk

Re:Off topic replies NEED NOT APPLY

[Ginger Unicorn]

You're delicious.

Re:WOW ! SERIOUSLY ? Windows is at VERSION SEVEN !

[Anonymous Coward]

Please *don't feed* the trolls, folks! Let's make Slashdot like it used to be!

Re:WOW ! SERIOUSLY ? Windows is at VERSION SEVEN !

[Anonymous Coward]

CAPTCHA: original, the opposite of copy-and-paste
Please *don't feed* the trolls, folks! Let's make Slashdot like it used to be!

Ok, a joke

[Anonymous Coward]

"You're delicious." - by Ginger Unicorn (952287) on Thursday March 17, @07:05AM (#35514356)

EAT ME!

APK

P.S.=> LOL! apk