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UT Student-Built Spacecraft Separate and Communicate

BJ_Covert_Action writes "Some students from the Cockrell School of Engineering in Austin, Texas have built, developed, launched, and operated two historic satellites. The FASTRAC satellites make up the first small-scale satellite system which is composed of two separate spacecraft that can communicate to each other. On March 22, the single FASTRAC satellite successfully separated into two smaller spacecraft that are currently operating and communicating with each other. While separation and communication has occurred between paired satellites before, this is the first time it has been done with such a small platform (the FASTRAC spacecraft weigh approximately 60 lbs.). Furthermore, this is the first time a student-designed and built space system has been composed of two separate spacecraft that can interact with each other. One of the most impressive things about this mission is that it was done incredibly cheap, at $250,000, which is far below the costs associated with traditional spacecraft."

60 of 102 comments (clear)

  1. FastTrack? by MrEricSir · · Score: 1

    So does this mean they're downloading songs off KaZaA, Grokster, and iMesh?

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
  2. Re:Track it! by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

    wow...it's orbiting Uranus

    Your mom is orbiting my... wait, I can't tell if I'm doing this joke properly or not.

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  3. Re:Track it! by Jasoman · · Score: 1

    obvious troll is obvious.

  4. Re:Track it! by lennier1 · · Score: 1

    Just another extraterrestrial anal probe.

  5. Sure it's cheaper by santax · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now count the hours spend, add the costs of this being a project done by people are/have learned the ropes along the way of this project. Replace those factors with the hourly cost of a team of engineers and don't forget to call a insurance company for liability issues if your are offering this as a commercial service and all of a sudden we come to realize that education, labour and insurance cost more than the components your satellite + spaceship were made out of. This part wasn't exactly rocket science.

    1. Re:Sure it's cheaper by tanujt · · Score: 1

      I suppose the point was that you don't always need Gabazillion dollars to put stuff that belongs down here, up there.

    2. Re:Sure it's cheaper by santax · · Score: 1

      Well yes, but you don't need to spend 250.000 to come to that conclusion :D Despite me pointing this out, to be honest, I really dig this project. 2 thumbs up. Wish I had a chance to do something this cool. But, when you only count the costs of parts you are not getting the real cost. I didn't account the real profit either. Who cares about another shitty satellite in orbit. We have thousands of them and most of them are way more interesting than what these guys put up there. What is way more interesting here in terms of profit is that we have a couple of young people, call em kids, that have hands on knowledge on designing and building spacecraft. That is profit. In the future they will be building... well... multi million/billion spacecraft for some really cool company that's will make sure every last penning of profit will be attained ;) Sweet irony. But still, awesome project with good results.

    3. Re:Sure it's cheaper by Goldsmith · · Score: 1

      Yes, and now you know how the national scientific system works. This is exactly how we do things in all fields of physics now.

    4. Re:Sure it's cheaper by pushing-robot · · Score: 1

      Yeah, and it's worth noting that the *hardware* budget was $250,000. It was launched on a Minotaur IV, which costs a cool $50 million USD to purchase and launch. Their web site is far from clear, but it looks like these tiny satellites were allowed to piggyback on another launch. Which is a great deal for them, since they didn't really care what orbit their satellite got put in or how many years (or months, in this case) it would stay up.

      But if I was a commercial venture, with full-sized satellites, and I had to spend $10 million+++ to buy my own launches, I'd make damn sure my satellites are top quality.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    5. Re:Sure it's cheaper by pushing-robot · · Score: 1

      Sorry, don't mod me up... I'd been away for a while before I hit submit, and I didn't notice that someone else had posted the same thing later in the thread.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    6. Re:Sure it's cheaper by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 2

      Who cares about another shitty satellite in orbit.

      Anyone who builds satellites does. Something that a lot of folk seem to miss in the space industry is that risk is a determining factor in most spacecraft development costs. The managerial board in charge of any design will dog its engineers about how risky a particular program is. Every piece of technology that has not been tested on orbit adds a very significant amount of risk to any risk model. Essentially it adds one big, "Oh crap this has a high chance of failing," component to an otherwise proven design.

      Thus, in order for the spacecraft industry to progress, some entity needs to take on high-risk test missions. These missions are known as tech-demonstrators. Essentially, their sole purpose is to put something in the space environment that has never been done before just to show that it will perform on-orbit the same as it did in a lab on the ground. The problem is, there is almost no profit in the very small tech-demo missions. Thus, the large companies often have to gloss over new, but small leaps in technology in favor of 30 year old proven designs.

      A mission like this is far beyond just another "shitty satellite." While I didn't work on this mission, I can promise you that there are coding techniques, chips, and control devices on these spacecraft that have never been flown before. I can guarantee that because a mission of this nature, on this scale, has never been flown before. So its overall design is going to be incredibly unique. As a result of this project, however, commercial companies will now start looking into adopting micro-scale satellite networks as a viable solution to many problems that customers want to solve since the concept, and at least one design, has been shown to work. Hell, right now there is a Canadian company that is trying to put together a a network of 78 nanosats to solve a real world problem. I'd bet my bollocks to a barn dance that company (MSCI) is watching this mission intently, and they may very well be in communication with the UT students who are working on FASTRAC in an attempt to reduce their own R&D costs.

      That's a lot of real-world progress that comes from just another shitty satellite in space. Don't rain down on small, incremental progress. It pays off in leaps and bounds with patience.

    7. Re:Sure it's cheaper by Bill_the_Engineer · · Score: 1

      Except NASA isn't free...

      --
      These comments are my own and do not necessarily reflect the views or opinions of my employer or colleagues...
    8. Re:Sure it's cheaper by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      If I was replying I would have prefixed my comments with a congratulations. I congratulate the students who have, from what I understand, no industrial experience, they are on the way to amazing and wonderful careers. I wonder if the students prepared the announcement from UT, or if they were exuberant about the success. No doubt, in the labs and classes they must have tallied all the direct and hidden, tangible and intangible, costs and services. Bravo Students.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  6. Re:Incredibly cheap at 250,000 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You obviously have no clue what it takes to design, build, launch and operate a successful system in space. $250,000 is downright highway robbery when large-scale systems can easily move into 10-digit figures. So, yes. $250,000 is very cheap. YOU'RE IN F'ING SPACE FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

  7. Also a Ham relay by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Both craft are also radio relays. You can talk via them if overhead. http://fastrac.ae.utexas.edu/for_radio_operators/users/phpBB3/predictedorbit.php

    FASTRAC 1 2M UP LINK / 440 DOWN LINK
    FASTRAC 2 440 UP LINK / 2M DOWN LINK
    AX-25 1200 AND 9600 BAUD

  8. Re:Track it! by Audguy · · Score: 1

    IT'S A TRAP! damn goatse pic!

  9. Re:Incredibly cheap at 250,000 by ocdscouter · · Score: 1
    Put more gently, it's "cheap" in this context.

    [But be sure to avoid the ugly connotations of "from a Certain Point of View(TM)".]

  10. Space Trash by jklovanc · · Score: 1

    Lets put up 120 pound of material into orbit with no more use that to prove that they can communicate. Isn't there an issue with junk in orbit?

    1. Re:Space Trash by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      According to the article http://fastrac.ae.utexas.edu/our_satellites/operation.php it orbits at 650KM. That is higher than the Hubble which is at 595Km. Maybe you should check your figures before posting.

    2. Re:Space Trash by John+Meacham · · Score: 2

      Yes, and the hubble is also in low earth orbit and will decay. That is why they have to periodically boost it with a space shuttle if they want it to stay there.

      --
      http://notanumber.net/
    3. Re:Space Trash by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Thanks for missing the point. The useless satellites are in orbit with high value assets. As they decay they become projectiles that could harm other satellites. Just being up there they take up area that could be used by something useful. They are small but there is a minimum separation for objects in orbit. If they get knocked that become more dangerous as they can not correct themselves. (They have thrusters but they only produce micro newtons of power)

      Had they been in a very low orbit, say 300Kms, which is below valuable satellite orbits and would decay quickly I would see not issue. It goes up; they do the experiment; it comes down and burn up; no problem. Now It will be up there for years if not decades and is a danger to valuable satellites s it comes down. Why did they have to put it so high? This is a great example of doing something because we can and not because we should.

    4. Re:Space Trash by Stupendoussteve · · Score: 1

      After the experiment they are to be used for APRS, it's meant to be up there for a while.

  11. considering one epsiode of Law and Order is by decora · · Score: 2

    one million american dollars, yeah it is kind of cheap.

    There is a great book about the Soviet side of the early space days. One of their test V7 rockets blew up, the chief designer and his friend were almost crying about the massive amount of money they had just wasted, enough to support whole villages several times over.

    When Sputnik launched, it captured the human imagination so powerfully that even the communist apparatchiks of Kruschev's regime had to pay respect to Korolev, and even the children of the imperialists were out in their backyards tuning their radios to the transmissions of the godless communist enemy. The man Korolev, though they would not know the man's name for another couple dozens years, as he was kept a secret so the CIA would not assassinate him, and his team, inspired the whole world.

    And now, this feat costs $250,000... less than the price of a fighter jet, or a hollywood movie, or a TV show episode, and it can be done by civilians. It is truly remarkable, and a great story for slashdot.

    IMHO

    1. Re:considering one epsiode of Law and Order is by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      I didn't RTFA but I'm sure $250KUS got them a satellite. They usually hitch a ride on somebody else's launch.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:considering one epsiode of Law and Order is by webmistressrachel · · Score: 1

      "kept a secret so the CIA would not assassinate him"

      The CIA must have been completely hopeless at the time if they couldn't simply plant operatives, get (physically) close to the space program launch site which was in present-day Kazakstan, suss out who was giving orders (Sergev), and snipe him.

      Additionally, I don't think that's the reason at all. The intention was probably more idealogical than security related, implying to the world that communism itself, collective effort and group planning, made this possible rather than the ideas and ambitions of one (quite priveleged) man.

      An advert for communism, if you will.

      --
      This tagline was transcoded to result in at least one smirk. If you experience failure to smirk, please consult your Gen
    3. Re:considering one epsiode of Law and Order is by Alex+Belits · · Score: 2

      Sputnik itself was just a simple sealed, battery-powered radio beacon. The hard part was to launch it in orbit.

      This thing is much more complex than Sputnik, but it had to be launched on someone else's rocket, so it does not reproduce the part that is actually impressive. The success in building something that can be launched into an orbit and do something useful there (even if it is just relaying radio signals) is valuable, however this is not anywhere close to the amount of engineering that goes into a satellite launch -- in Sputnik time or now.

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    4. Re:considering one epsiode of Law and Order is by Alex+Belits · · Score: 2

      Actually, some of security measures were designed to prevent just that (or stealing the documentation that was shared with ICBM development, or obtaining the maps of the launch site -- remember, it was the first satellite, so no one had satellite photos yet).

      --
      Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
    5. Re:considering one epsiode of Law and Order is by decora · · Score: 1

      all i know is what i read in the books

  12. Re:weird looking star by little dipper? by h4rr4r · · Score: 1

    Have captchas been broken so much that even script kiddies are in on the act or are the Parent and GP just off their medicine?

  13. It is the launch costs that kills you by prakslash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The satellites were launched by a Minotaur IV rocket from Alaska.
    These rockets are derived from converted old Minuteman/Peacekeeper ICBMs.
    Despite that, the launch costs of such a rocket can still be $40-50 million
    So, unless you can score a free ride for your doohickey, it ain't so cheap.

    1. Re:It is the launch costs that kills you by Lazareth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly this. While I agree that what the students did was both an achievement and a valuable educational process, much of the cost of sending stuff into orbit is, not surprisingly, sending stuff into orbit. They got to do that for free*.

      *Hidden costs 101: get somebody else to pay for it and say you did everything amazingly cheap.

    2. Re:It is the launch costs that kills you by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      Hey, if NASA is going to chuck a few hundred pounds into orbit anyways, and the launcher can lift a few hundred lbs. + 200 lbs., then why not bolt on some extra science and/or tech-demo missions? Otherwise you're just wasting hardware.

    3. Re:It is the launch costs that kills you by Lazareth · · Score: 1

      I agree and think it a wise gesture. I know not the margins with which such a launcher can carry "extra baggage", but by all means allow students to benefit from it and learn something in the process. It nurtures further interest which, in my mind, is the best source of learning :)

    4. Re:It is the launch costs that kills you by LordLucless · · Score: 1

      Of course. You can't just say afterwards that you can do it much cheaper than those overpaid NASA slobs (whose launch vehicle you just happened to ride up on).

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    5. Re:It is the launch costs that kills you by tyldis · · Score: 1

      'Cheap' is a matter of definition, but putting a payload into orbit has, in many cases, become cheaper than employing someone to do the equivalent job on earth. One such example is Cryosat2 which is measuring ice thickness, which was deemed cheaper than having scientists traveling around the globe and constantly measuring it 'manually'.

      I love this trend as it is providing my daily bread :)

    6. Re:It is the launch costs that kills you by jtseng · · Score: 1

      I imagine there were also no costs used to pay salaries since they're students and not professional engineers. (No I don't count the professors' salaries.)

      --

      Sanity.html - Error 404 not found

  14. Communication log by ikarys · · Score: 3, Funny

    FASTRAC 1: Hey sibling FASTRAC, anything happening over there?
    FASTRAC A: Nope - it's space fool.
    FASTRAC 1: Well, at least we have each other.
    FASTRAC A: I hate you.

  15. Re:weird looking star by little dipper? by webmistressrachel · · Score: 1

    I don't have a clue, I noticed this phenomenon recently, and nobody can explain it.

    Can bots really post to slashdot? Maybe a user creates an account, then gives each bot a un and pw. The bot parses the form /. offers then submits the random values, remembering to select the check-box closest to the AC box.

    No, I didn't write the damn thing, I hated it when I first saw it but I got to thinking whether it was person or not. I saw your comment and realised that broken CAPTCHAs were less likely than the solution above. It only seems to appear a few times at most on each article, so it's possible some very bored pest could do it alone, or a bot which waits for the next article or number of comments could do it.

    In fact, I suspect two accounts and two bots are involved, because one always replies to the other (at least recently)

    --
    This tagline was transcoded to result in at least one smirk. If you experience failure to smirk, please consult your Gen
  16. Re:weird looking star by little dipper? by jackbird · · Score: 1

    Perhaps this is a coded/steganographic communication intended to be lost in the noise?

  17. Re:weird looking star by little dipper? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Mental illness much more likely cause. Like the GP said off their meds.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  18. Re:weird looking star by little dipper? by jackbird · · Score: 1

    It's the reply that's making me think there's something more. Also, I haven't seen many schitzophrenic screeds that short.

  19. Not impressive at all. by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

    "One of the most impressive things about this mission is that it was done incredibly cheap, at $250,000, which is far below the costs associated with traditional spacecraft."

    That's like being impressed that a moped is cheaper than Bugatti Veyron. No effing duh the moped is cheaper.

    1. Re:Not impressive at all. by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but imagine an industry where just about everyone buys Bugatti Veryons regardless of whether they need them or not. Then imagine that some guy comes along and buys a moped instead, because all he needs to do is putt to work every morning, not race every hot-rodder on the road.

      The impressive thing isn't just the cost itself, but it's the demonstration that the moped can fulfill your needs at a significantly lower cost. This is an especially impressive thing when 99% of the current car buyers don't think a moped can get them to work at all. ;)

    2. Re:Not impressive at all. by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but imagine an industry where just about everyone buys Bugatti Veryons regardless of whether they need them or not.

      Since that is an imaginary situation that bears no relation to the real world, I decline to do so.

    3. Re:Not impressive at all. by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      ....that bears no relation to the real world

      Kinda like how your simile between the car industry and the space industry bears no relation to the real world, as they utilize completely different design cycles, program cost models, and product requirements?

      Contrary to popular Slashdot belief, car analogies don't actually produce any meaningful data for a proper analysis of a given situation. ;)

    4. Re:Not impressive at all. by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Kinda like how your simile between the car industry and the space industry bears no relation to the real world, as they utilize completely different design cycles, program cost models, and product requirements?

      Since I was only providing a simple example of differing levels of cost and performance, all of that is irrelevant.
       

      Contrary to popular Slashdot belief, car analogies don't actually produce any meaningful data for a proper analysis of a given situation.

      Yet you understood what I meant immediately. My analogy worked because it displayed a useful comparison between different levels of cost and capability. Your analogy failed, and was rejected, because it didn't provide a useful comparison.

    5. Re:Not impressive at all. by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Especially if everyone building the moped does it for free, the gas is free, and someone tows it behind the Bugatti for free.

      While this is AWESOME, and kudos the the 150 people who put it together, the cost is stupid to compare to other satellites.
      .

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  20. A question for anyone familiar with this stuff by alienzed · · Score: 1

    Whenever I hear the NASA budget or the cost of commercial projects like this, I always ask myself if the people working on it are being paid way too much. I mean, real technical human labor seems to have skyrocketed in price, no pun intended.

    --
    Never say never. Ah!! I did it again!
    1. Re:A question for anyone familiar with this stuff by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 1

      I would be very surprised if cost-overruns for big projects are due to overpaid labor. The reality of it is that for missions like those designed by NASA, Ball, Lockheed, and Boeing etc. there are a lot of unknowns. Problems arise in designs that weren't accounted for at the start. That can be anything from a technician not being able to reach a particular screw hole with a screw driver to an improper thermal compound being used that fails a vacuum test and, thus, requires a tear down of an entire subassembly. Some of the missions being designed by the large firms are doing things that nobody has ever done before, at all. Sure, we may have chucked a few Voyager probes out of the solar system, but how many orbiters are there around Saturn other than Cassini? None. So when the engineering team started building Cassini, they were flying into problems that nobody had ever encountered before. The same goes for many other complex missions.

      Now, of course, not all problems are technical. For large complicated systems to be developed in a short timeframe, large armies of engineers and technicians need to be present to get the hard work done in parallel with one another. These large armies need to be managed. On top of that, there needs to be a control mechanism in place that allows everyone to have access to the latest and greatest information from everyone else. So you start developing overhead by staffing a managerial team. Then you start accruing costs because you have to build a configuration management system where important design documents and interface documents are checked in and out before they are changed. Then engineers have to spend time filling out all the appropriate paperwork to make sure their check-ins and check-outs are all tracked appropriately. Of course, you also have to meet certain safety regulations, so you probably hire a quality assurance manager and engineer in there somewhere. And since these projects are complex, they are expensive, so you keep a few highly paid accountants on hand to track every penny just in case you get audited. And so on and so on.

      Being able to balance a project between efficient, quick development and being safe, quality, well-managed project is a fine art. Unfortunately, it is a fine art that many of the very large organizations have "mastered" so highly that it has become one of their biggest problems. I've worked on engineering projects before where it literally took me a few weeks worth of work just to get approval to use one type of epoxy rather than another type of epoxy that was already on the approved materials list. That's how bad some of the bureaucratic overhead can get on highly complex projects.

    2. Re:A question for anyone familiar with this stuff by Panaflex · · Score: 1

      Well NASA has done similar things before - for instance the Mars Phoenix reused several components from previous missions (including the failed Mars Polar Lander).

      In general I agree with what you're saying - though likely many mission scientist would raise concerns over too much generic hardware. There's issues with weight, mass distribution, power management and of course congress.

      --
      I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
  21. Re:Track it! by kdemetter · · Score: 1

    I never thought i'd say this the first time i saw it , but after some time , you do get used to goatse.
    It's only mildly disgusting to me now.

  22. oh i thought they got the rocket for 250k too by decora · · Score: 1

    my bad

  23. oh oops by decora · · Score: 1

    i thought they had a rocket for $250k. lols.

    1. Re:oh oops by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      i thought they had a rocket for $250k. lols.

      Now that really would have been a story.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  24. ...and the labor rates by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    I didn't RTFA (this is slashdot, after all), but for $250,000, I'm guessing that the engineering, assembly, overhead, and all other costs other than raw parts were not included. It's like watching HGTV renovate a kitchen for $4,000, and then asking if a local GC can renovate yours for the same amount.

    It's cool that they got to do it, but when the "cost" you claim is two orders of magnitude smaller than what it actually costs, and the reason is that you didn't actually account for the total costs of the mission, it rings a bit hollow.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  25. Amusing by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    It's amusing that THEIR satellite separated successfully, but we lost a climate change survey satellite because of some bad self-stealing stem bolts or something. Seriously?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  26. Hammertime? by tpconcannon · · Score: 1

    But did they Stop, Collaborate, & Listen as well?

    --
    I found the "Any" key.
  27. Re:Track it! by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    I never thought i'd say this the first time i saw it , but after some time , you do get used to goatse. It's only mildly disgusting to me now.

    You're on a slippery slope...as it were.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  28. Re:UT... by rourin_bushi · · Score: 1

    Huh, so the Aggies had it right after all. We refer to them as t.u.

  29. Oh dear lord by geekoid · · Score: 1

    150 people over 7 years who you didn't need to be pay, and they didn't pay for the launch, AND it's not a long term mission.

    It was cheaper you say? I'm shocked I tell you, simply shocked.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect