Slashdot Mirror


Pioneer Anomaly Solved By 1970s Computer Graphics

Frans Faase updated us on a Pioneer Mystery we've been following for many years: something is tugging Pioneer 10 & 11. A few years ago a theory surfaced but now "A new computer model of the way heat is emitted by various parts of the Pioneer spacecraft, and reflected off others, finally solves one of the biggest mysteries in astrophysics. Previous calculations have only estimated the effect of reflections. A computer modeling technique called Phong shading was used to work out exactly how the the emitted heat is reflected (PDF) and in which direction it ends up traveling. Taking into account the reflections on the antenna seem to make the anomaly disappear."

169 comments

  1. tao of physics?? by ShitSoup · · Score: 0

    So it seems, the mystery ain't a mystery after all... No more hookum about some "unknown" force. Glad to know.

    1. Re:tao of physics?? by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      While a mundane explanation has always seemed most likely, why is is "good to know" that an exciting new discovery isn't going to happen?

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    2. Re:tao of physics?? by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      No, clearly this is part of the great conspiracy known as NASA! They're hiding something, I tell you! It's the aliens, the same ones that helped them fake the moon landing! So yeah, this "finding" has to be part of the great cover-up. It couldn't be simply the laws of physics.

      (this is the commenter's physician: a sedative has been administered, and he's been returned to his padded cell)

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    3. Re:tao of physics?? by The+Grim+Reefer2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So it seems, the mystery ain't a mystery after all...

      That tends to happen when you solve them.

    4. Re:tao of physics?? by PPH · · Score: 2

      Its that feeling you got in 8th grade algebra when you did all the work and your answer matched the one in the back of the book.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    5. Re:tao of physics?? by Zephyn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because focus can now be placed elsewhere instead of continuing to investigate a red herring.

      While it is sometimes disappointing that unknown effects don't always turn out to be from unknown causes, having the exciting new discoveries come from the basis of fact rather than imagination is the main difference between actual science versus everything else that claims to be science.

    6. Re:tao of physics?? by VGPowerlord · · Score: 1

      So it seems, the mystery ain't a mystery after all...

      That tends to happen when you solve them.

      and like usual, the butler did it!

      --
      GLaDOS for President 2016! "Well here we are again. It's always such a pleasure." -- GLaDOS, 2011
    7. Re:tao of physics?? by ackthpt · · Score: 1

      So it seems, the mystery ain't a mystery after all...

      That tends to happen when you solve them.

      and like usual, the butler did it!

      Ah, ha. But, who is the Butler?

      When I first saw the splash paragraph I was expecting a Commodore PET was figuring into this somehow.

      --

      A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    8. Re:tao of physics?? by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sadly, unless it's one of the big unsolved problems or it takes a PhD to even understand the problem it's probably been solved before. We had a math book that so barely mentioned perfect numbers, I spent a lot of time reaching a result that I felt was "new". Eventually it turns out I had recreated a proof that Euler did in the 18th century. At least it wasn't the Greek, every time you feel bright then you learn someone already figured this out 2000 years ago.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    9. Re:tao of physics?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Butlers do solve everything, don't they? I guess I should look into getting one.

    10. Re:tao of physics?? by Kell+Bengal · · Score: 1

      Clearly the true test was to see which students were smart enough to simply copy the answer from the the back of the book in the first place. It's a strategy that serves me well to this day. Now, if only I could find where I put the answer booklet for members of congress...

      --
      Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
      altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
    11. Re:tao of physics?? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      Now, if only I could find where I put the answer booklet for members of congress...

      It's in your wallet.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    12. Re:tao of physics?? by gad_zuki! · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure how this become the "biggest mystery in astrophysics." Maybe to the ADD addled tech crowd and other casual people who were using it as code for "hey, maybe aliens." It was like a "god of the gaps" argument. Well, "alien of the gaps."

      Occam's razor, use it.

    13. Re:tao of physics?? by sconeu · · Score: 1

      To futher clarify ColdWetDog's answer.

      The answer booklet is gray/green hand has a picture of a dead president, or a Founding Father on it.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    14. Re:tao of physics?? by rednip · · Score: 1

      Ah, ha. But, who is the Butler?

      The radar dish

      --
      The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
    15. Re:tao of physics?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for shedding light where there was no darkness.

    16. Re:tao of physics?? by Machtyn · · Score: 1

      Until you found out that the answers in the back of the book were also wrong. Darn interns.

    17. Re:tao of physics?? by peragrin · · Score: 1

      So Radar was the butler too. That actually makes sense. Now to get hawkeye and pierce to openthe still.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    18. Re:tao of physics?? by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      It's always in the last place you looked.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    19. Re:tao of physics?? by jmd_akbar · · Score: 1

      Jeeves???

      --
      Nothing here... So... SHOOO!!!
    20. Re:tao of physics?? by Gilmoure · · Score: 2

      Real men know how to butle themselves.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    21. Re:tao of physics?? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well and every crackpot trying to overturn all of modern physics/cosmology without understanding it first. The number of times I've heard the Pioneer Anomaly brought up as evidence that modern physics was fundamentally broken and the Scientific Clergy refused to admit it is... very large. I think I've even heard EU morons claiming that their plasma cosmology explained the Pioneer Anomaly.

      Of course nobody who latched on to the anomaly will be satisfied by this explanation. So it goes...

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    22. Re:tao of physics?? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2

      Notice how in that sentence he was talking about the Greeks.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    23. Re:tao of physics?? by robthebloke · · Score: 1

      For you maybe. For me however, the connection between the Queen and Congress wasn't immediately obvious....

    24. Re:tao of physics?? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Don't be so limiting. Politicians also take credit cards, bullion, golf trips, Interns, chickens.... I guess I'll just stop here.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    25. Re:tao of physics?? by Kelbear · · Score: 1

      Also, it's just plain cool when applied math explains away the mysteries of the world. To my perspective as a layperson, it's incredible how many layers of ingenuity piled up to enable someone to explore and explain some odd phenomenon bouncing off a craft hurtling through space.

    26. Re:tao of physics?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When I was 10, while drying the dishes, I realized that the water wasn't actually going away; was just changing position/form. From this, I realized that energy was the same way (thinking about sunshine and how the photons get absorbed/radiated as heat, etc). And then, a few years later, found out someone else had already figured out this thermo dynamics stuff. Decided then and there I'd stop wasting time with this brain thing and devote my life to viewing porn.

    27. Re:tao of physics?? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      Chickens...[*shudder*] I wish you'd stopped one element earlier.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    28. Re:tao of physics?? by Mikkeles · · Score: 1

      It's just global warming (for a tiny globe) :)

      --
      Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    29. Re:tao of physics?? by element-o.p. · · Score: 1

      Well, yeah...

      Once you find it, why would you keep looking? Ergo, the place you found it is *always* going to be the last place you looked.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    30. Re:tao of physics?? by element-o.p. · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but he also said "...it wasn't the Greeks..." So in this case, someone didn't figure it out 2000 years ago; someone figured it out ~300 years ago.

      --
      MCSE? No, sir...I don't do Windows. Yes, I am an idealist. What's your point?
    31. Re:tao of physics?? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, he said "at least it wasn't the Greeks", because of how often he finds out that something he thought was novel was discovered by them. Which would be 2000 years ago. Merely 300 years ago is better. Thus "at least it wasn't the Greeks".

      Got it now?

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    32. Re:tao of physics?? by tibit · · Score: 1

      Hey, you did the work from scratch and that's what counts.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    33. Re:tao of physics?? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Of course nobody who latched on to the anomaly will be satisfied by this explanation. So it goes...

      Not so. Since I heard about it, I've allowed the possibility that Newtonian/relativistic physics may have some inaccuracies at very large scales, or that something about space was unknown.

      Now this calculation offers a much simpler explanation, so I'll count it as far more likely to be true. I'd previously assumed those writing the papers would have accounted for it.

      But until we have a Grand Unified Theory, or at least a provable theory of gravity that works at quantum scales, I'm not going to place any 300-year bets that our current understanding of physics is Correct(tm). Useful tools, definitely, but any higher level of Belief is religious in nature.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    34. Re:tao of physics?? by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Pretty hard to fit any of those, except for credit cards, into your wallet.

      How *do* you fit an intern in there, anyways?

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    35. Re:tao of physics?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'll go blind doing that! Then all the Phong shading in the world won't help you.

    36. Re:tao of physics?? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Pretty hard to fit any of those, except for credit cards, into your wallet. How *do* you fit an intern in there, anyways?

      You tell them to get in there and make it their problem to find a way.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    37. Re:tao of physics?? by Kjella · · Score: 2

      People like that will latch onto anything, it's like the people that take a tiny gap in some evolutionary chain and blow it up as a huge missing link, evolution is bunk and creationism is truth. They'll just pick something else and it'll go on, just like they've retconned that the earth is round and orbits the sun, not flat and the center of the universe. It doesn't matter how far science comes, someone will always manage to shoehorn in their religion.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    38. Re:tao of physics?? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Not so. Since I heard about it, I've allowed the possibility that Newtonian/relativistic physics may have some inaccuracies at very large scales,

      "Allowed" is what most physicists have done, though the most likely scenario was always considered to be that there was a mundane explanation. "Latched on to" is what crackpots have done, and will continue to do. Because they're trying to overturn all of physics, and "some inaccuracies" still means the existing theory is pretty good and predicts a great many things correctly. But they want to somehow undo all of that with one unexplained thing that the theory doesn't predict.

      I'm not going to place any 300-year bets that our current understanding of physics is Correct(tm).

      You and every scientist in existence, since they know it isn't Correct(tm) already. Why did you think that was even relevant to bring up? Do you think there is, or for some reason that I was creating, a false dichotomy between idiots trying to overturn physics without understanding it, and current theory being indubitably correct?

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    39. Re:tao of physics?? by jafiwam · · Score: 1

      Occam's Razor is useful for making determinations about what is true among several possible explanations.

      It is not, however, useful for helping you come up with the explanations in the first place. As was needed here.

    40. Re:tao of physics?? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Do you think there is, or for some reason that I was creating, a false dichotomy between idiots trying to overturn physics without understanding it, and current theory being indubitably correct?

      I suspect "latched on to" is the point of confusion. I had put the Pioneer Anomaly into the "this needs explaining" category - and something I wasn't willing to let go of for the sake of mathematical purity. From your response, I think your usage meant, "this proves all of physics is wrong." So, it seems we're in agreement, just a difference in usage of an idiom.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    41. Re:tao of physics?? by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Oh it goes farther than that my friend, it goes back to the OSS covering up the fact that there are Nazis on the moon!

      In all seriousness while I'm glad they solved that niggler you can understand why some would have latched onto a "the math don't work" hypothesis, and that is because....well at the incredible sizes of great and small we are talking about in space the math doesn't work which is why we have no grand unified theory yet.

      So while I'm glad we don't have a red herring steering us away I bet on our way to the grand unified theory we will have more than one "holy shit!" moment where we find out the way we think things work is full of shit. We are like Archimedes trying to figure out the universe with a hole and a stick. The one thing I'm sure of is there is a hell of a lot we just don't know yet.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    42. Re:tao of physics?? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      From your response, I think your usage meant, "this proves all of physics is wrong."

      My response, and the very first sentence of my first post. :P

      But I'm glad we understand each other now.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    43. Re:tao of physics?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oooh the Space Nutter goon division is up early today, modding down the realists!

    44. Re:tao of physics?? by xouumalperxe · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's not very exciting, no big theory of physics disproven, no shiny new theory neede to explain this phenomenon. Yet, if you consider the options listed:

      1. 1. Black Matter
      2. 2. Gravity doesn't quite work like we think it does
      3. 3. Heat Loss

      1 and 2 are actually pretty far fetched, and when the effect was detected, number 3 was estimated to be not quite enough. Yet someone though "Those estimates aren't quite good enough", and tried a really simple model that I'd wager a great deal many people here have some experience with, put it to use in a novel way, and it worked.

      This was an a triumph of the standing on the shoulders of giants maxim, and I love it.

    45. Re:tao of physics?? by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      Most certainly not. Jeeves was a gentleman's gentleman, a valet, not a butler.

    46. Re:tao of physics?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      someone else had already figured out... I'd stop wasting time with this brain thing devote my life to viewing porn.

      I'm sure you realize by now that the only sex organ is the brain...

    47. Re:tao of physics?? by Thing+1 · · Score: 1

      Hi, I like your sig, new friend.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    48. Re:tao of physics?? by bar-agent · · Score: 1

      The number of times I've heard the Pioneer Anomaly brought up as evidence that modern physics was fundamentally broken and the Scientific Clergy refused to admit it is... very large.

      Well, I admit I am disappointed. If they've explained it, they've explained it. But it woulda been cool if physics had had to changeâ¦

      --
      i'd hit it so hard, if you pulled me out you'd be the king of britain [bash.org]
    49. Re:tao of physics?? by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

      (this is the commenter's physician: a sedative has been administered, and he's been returned to his padded cell)

      Can I please use that as a signature?

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    50. Re:tao of physics?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it wasn't the Greeks..." So in this case, someone didn't figure it out 2000 years ago

      It may come as a surprise, but there are still Greeks today

    51. Re:tao of physics?? by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      Sure, knock yourself out. Legally, consider it public domain.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  2. To be fair... by cobrausn · · Score: 4, Informative

    The technique for Phong Shading was introduced in 1973 as an improvement to Gouraud Shading, but was too computationally intensive to be used for graphics back then. This is no longer the case.

    --
    How does it feel to be a liar with pants constantly on fire?
    1. Re:To be fair... by BitterKraut · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It is also interesting to note that Phong shading is based on an empirical formula. That means it has not been derived from any known (i.e. accepted) "laws of nature". It is used in Computer Graphics because it can be calculated efficiently and approximates what we see or measure closely enough. Strictly speaking, it is not possible to scientifically explain any phenomenon by showing that Phong shading explains it. But as it seems, the whole scenario is so complex that showing its compatibility with the Phong model must already be regarded as a remarkable achievement.

    2. Re:To be fair... by mooingyak · · Score: 1

      And in 1973 a disappointed Sisqo sang "Let me see that Phong..."

      --
      William of Ockham had no beard. The most likely explanation is that it was chewed off by squirrels every morning.
    3. Re:To be fair... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're dealing with point light sources, it's possibly the case that Phong approximates the actual behaviour fairly well. However, I do wonder about the accuracy of the calculations. We're talking about quite a long distance between the light source and the surface!

    4. Re:To be fair... by Dr.+Gamera · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's not the radiation pressure from the sun that they're calculating, it's thermal effects from the on-board plutonium on the back of the antenna. So the source of the slowing is a very short distance away.

    5. Re:To be fair... by Dr.+Gamera · · Score: 2

      The whole "1970s computer graphics technique" thing is sort of silly anyway. If anything, it's surprising that the technique was invented so recently. "Area under curve in Second Life calculated by 1600s mathematics technique..."

    6. Re:To be fair... by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      And in 1973 a disappointed Sisqo sang "Let me see that Phong..."

      Oh Cisco ..

      Oh Pancho ...

      The Cisco Kid

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    7. Re:To be fair... by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      Wasn't that Bob the Guardian?

    8. Re:To be fair... by dachshund · · Score: 2

      The technique for Phong Shading was introduced in 1973 as an improvement to Gouraud Shading, but was too computationally intensive to be used for graphics back then. This is no longer the case.

      And the saddest thing is that Phong died shortly after completing his dissertation. So he never knew the impact his techniques had on the field.

    9. Re:To be fair... by j00r0m4nc3r · · Score: 1

      the whole scenario is so complex that showing its compatibility with the Phong model must already be regarded as a remarkable achievement.

      I think what is remarkable is that the monolith is able to make its effect on the probes look identical to phong shading.

    10. Re:To be fair... by six · · Score: 2

      The technique for Phong Shading was introduced in 1973 as an improvement to Gouraud Shading, but was too computationally intensive to be used for graphics back then. This is no longer the case.

      It was too computationally intensive for *realtime* rendering in 1973, but clearly not out of reach for the kind of modeling software NASA people were using ...

      Also, it should be noted that realtime phong shading was already common in demos/intros running on 33 MHz 386 CPUs back in the 90s

    11. Re:To be fair... by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

      In many domains it was no longer the case at least 20 years ago.

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    12. Re:To be fair... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't really see the problem here. All laws of physics are pretty much found by a method I like to call "Ooh, we can measure things. I wonder if we can find math that doesn't deviate too much from our measurements."
      So far we don't even know if math can accurately describe the universe so it doesn't seem like a big deal to patch whatever we have together until it works.

    13. Re:To be fair... by WeatherGod · · Score: 1

      Wasn't that Bob the Guardian?

      Thanks! I was waiting for a "Reboot" reference.

    14. Re:To be fair... by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 1

      Just got the boxed set so it was on my mind.

    15. Re:To be fair... by jackbird · · Score: 1

      Especially since Jim Blinn was making pretty pictures at JPL from probe data...

    16. Re:To be fair... by wvmarle · · Score: 1

      Personally one of the most remarkable achievements of mankind is not just that we send out a probe so far into space, but that we can still measure its exact position to such a precision that heat produced on the craft has to be accounted for in its flight path. And also that we can predict its flight path with such a precision considering the number of variables that has to be taken into account.

    17. Re:To be fair... by jhalme · · Score: 1

      Also, it should be noted that realtime phong shading was already common in demos/intros running on 33 MHz 386 CPUs back in the 90s

      You know, you really shouldn't believe Jmagic if he says an object has 7800 phong shaded polys...

      As far as I know, all the software rendering demos and intros in the 90s claiming phong shading faked it either by envmapping with a prerendered texture of a specular highlight or doing gouraud with a non-linear palette. Both looked reasonably convincing, albeit with somewhat rough and/or distorted highlights.

  3. Too bad. by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

    Oh, well. It was fun while it lasted.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  4. But... Phong is wrong by pyalot · · Score: 3, Interesting

    everybody knows that. A much better aproximation to real life surfaces are the Oren–Nayar or Cook-Torrance models of the family of BRDFs.

    1. Re:But... Phong is wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, i totally agree with you.

    2. Re:But... Phong is wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is wrong too, so what's the difference? And, please, define 'much'...

      If you're going to be pedantic, do it right.

    3. Re:But... Phong is wrong by cobrausn · · Score: 1

      Phong is only 'wrong' in graphics if it produces something other than what you expect as the result. Ah, computer graphics. It should be added to that old saying, 'Close only counts with horseshoes, hang grenades, and now, computer graphics.'

      --
      How does it feel to be a liar with pants constantly on fire?
    4. Re:But... Phong is wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No need to use models. Just measure the BRDFs (bidirectional reflectance distribution function) of the materials that Pioneer is made of and then use photon mapping to calculate an even better approximation of the energy transfer. Or, you know, don't overdo it and use the Phong approximation because it's good enough when you don't know the exact surface condition after decades in space.

    5. Re:But... Phong is wrong by pyalot · · Score: 1

      Clearly this problem needs more effort to solve conclusively. For this purpose I'd propose constructing a probe that's as close to perfectly spherical as you can get, with a surface that's carefully adjusted to be perfectly diffuse according to the phong model, and which includes self-measuring capabilities (something like retractable cameras) to measure their own reflective properties after prolonged exposure to the solar medium.

    6. Re:But... Phong is wrong by pyalot · · Score: 1

      If you look at this wikipedia article for Oren-Nayar, you can see that there's quite a difference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oren%E2%80%93Nayar_reflectance_model

    7. Re:But... Phong is wrong by pyalot · · Score: 2

      So Phong is "right" for the probe, because it incidentally matches what they're seeing better? Alright, I propose a better solution, how about we invent some imaginary matter with exotic properties permeating the space, but that can't be seen, which incidentally has exactly the right properties to fit the measured data?

      Saying Phong is right after fitting the calculated data to the measured data just suspect.

    8. Re:But... Phong is wrong by cobrausn · · Score: 1

      I should point out that I was only referring to the 'computer graphics' part of Phong Shading, not the application mentioned in the article. I also find the result suspect - the Phong method is 'right' here only because it fits the data, which is interesting, but proves nothing until they can explain why.

      --
      How does it feel to be a liar with pants constantly on fire?
    9. Re:But... Phong is wrong by fatphil · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And the earth isn't round either. It's just a closer approximation to reality than
      saying the earth is flat. Or saying that Pioneer is a spherical cow. Scientists aren't looking for something that is right rather than wrong, they are looking for something that bounds the error term in a significantly tighter way. Phong apparently does this. Presumably any ad-hoc model that approximated reality closer than what was done before would have also decreased the error bounds.

      And Oren-Nayar? Have you mistaken Pioneer for a slab of concrete?

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
    10. Re:But... Phong is wrong by lazy+genes · · Score: 0

      the toon shader works better on political surfaces.

    11. Re:But... Phong is wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Alright, I propose a better solution, how about we invent some imaginary matter with exotic properties permeating the space, but that can't be seen, which incidentally has exactly the right properties to fit the measured data?

      Oh, oh! I know! Let's call it "Dark Matter"!

    12. Re:But... Phong is wrong by tnk1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      They did explain why. Thermal effects. The only thing that Phong shading did was to remove an obstacle to that hypothesis that was merely due to built-in inaccuracies in how they accounted for those effects initially.

      In other words, the shading increased the accuracy of the calculations and it was found that when it was applied the most likely solution became even more likely.

      While it is true that the Phong solution is still likely "wrong" due to being not perfectly accurate, it's still a lot less wrong than thermal effects uncorrected, and much, much less wrong than assuming aliens or an entirely new discovery in gravitation.

    13. Re:But... Phong is wrong by CnlPepper · · Score: 1

      If it is perfectly diffuse you don't need the Phong model, it'd be Lambertian. :)

    14. Re:But... Phong is wrong by russotto · · Score: 1

      Alright, I propose a better solution, how about we invent some imaginary matter with exotic properties permeating the space, but that can't be seen, which incidentally has exactly the right properties to fit the measured data?

      You have a Ph.D in Astrophysics, don't you?

    15. Re:But... Phong is wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These are all approximations, like you already said. Approximations are not "right", but does give an answer that is sometimes "good enough". For some applications, "good enough" is all you need.

      Another example is Newton's "Laws" as long as the object is not close to the velocity of light...

    16. Re:But... Phong is wrong by pclminion · · Score: 1

      Whatever the real model is, Phong is an approximation of it. We know it's a decent approximation, because when we use Phong to model the effects of illumination, the results look realistic. Nobody said it's a perfect model. It is apparently quite a bit better than the approximations used previously.

      Even when we do have an exact model of something, we A) still don't know if it's correct, just that it matches observations made so far, and B) when we use a computer to analyze a situation based on that model, we necessarily make approximations anyway.

    17. Re:But... Phong is wrong by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

      Everybody? That's a huge and unfounded assumption which is quite likely very wrong both for the general population and for the /. sub-population.

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
    18. Re:But... Phong is wrong by Chris+Burke · · Score: 2

      So Phong is "right" for the probe, because it incidentally matches what they're seeing better?

      You should not treat this question as though it is a rhetorical. You should treat it as though it is an actual question to which you do not know the answer. And then go find out the answer, if it bothers you so much.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    19. Re:But... Phong is wrong by Josef+Meixner · · Score: 3, Interesting

      While it is true that the Phong solution is still likely "wrong" due to being not perfectly accurate, it's still a lot less wrong than thermal effects uncorrected

      The main problem with Phong is, that it can create energy depending on the parameters. Meaning the emitted light can be stronger than the incident light and so in that calculation create thrust out of nowhere.

      Additionally the Pioneer probes are made out of metal, Phong is derived from a model of plastic. The properties of those two materials are quite different, one being a conductor the other an insulator, so the Fresnel equation gives quite different values for the reflective properties, additionally metals are often anisotropic in their reflection capabilities. This has influence on the direction and form of the lobe for the first order effects. I also don't understand, why they didn't use one of the established BRDFs which are at least physically correct.

      I looked through the paper and I see no prove, that the parameters they assume for diffuse and specular reflection don't violate the laws of physics.

    20. Re:But... Phong is wrong by gambit3 · · Score: 1

      What does it matter if he does?

      He can't be heard if he DOESN'T have a Ph.D in Astrophysics?

      Conversely, if he DOES have one, does that make his proposal magically valid?

    21. Re:But... Phong is wrong by tophermeyer · · Score: 1

      Not to be too pedantic, but I would like to introduce you to the tautological world of academia.

    22. Re:But... Phong is wrong by Entropy2016 · · Score: 1

      When you say "Phong shading is wrong", isn't that just with respect to visible light? Are you sure "Phong is wrong" for thermal radiation?

    23. Re:But... Phong is wrong by aiwarrior · · Score: 2

      I actually saw a conference with the authors of the paper this week and they had into account the fact that it was metal and even modeled it from the clone in the Smithsonian. And yes they treated it like an antenna so the radiative energy balance is taken care of. The Phong idea came from a student which i think is great, and the public acknowledgment from the professor was very nice. They even had a live webcast of the whole conference.I will ask if they will publish the recordings for download. http://www.aerospace.ubi.pt/workshop2011/preliminary_program.html.
      Lots more interesting stuff was discussed like ion beam space debris collectors, satellites and orbit planning which was way over my head

    24. Re:But... Phong is wrong by famebait · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      --
      sudo ergo sum
    25. Re:But... Phong is wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the contrary, any violations MUST be proven, not the other way around. Thus it MUST be assumed that there is no violation unless proven otherwise.

    26. Re:But... Phong is wrong by SpinningCone · · Score: 1

      bah we already have dark matter. this is an obvious case of Dark Inertia.

      its actual a form of anti inertia which can cause thrust. it consists of 99% of all inertial forces but is unobservable locally because we're special and live in the 1% of the universe that doesn't suck.

      we hope to discover evidence of this by renting the LHC for a year to super-collide flubber particles while covering our ears and making disparaging remarks about opposing theories (dark inertia doesn't like opposing theories so we have to scare them off).

  5. Phong shading? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Instead why don't they solve the radiosity equation at a 1 mm^2 resolution? That should be feasible with today's computing power, and indisputably give the correct answer.

    1. Re:Phong shading? by Splab · · Score: 1

      Because the "room" they are shading is rather large, think universe size.

      Also, since the Phong shading did the trick why bother?

    2. Re:Phong shading? by TerranFury · · Score: 1

      The article posted by Intron here seems to indicate that they did spend some time solving something like Laplace's equation. I haven't read the paper, so I don't know whether radiative transfer between different components of the spacecraft was considered, or just conduction.

    3. Re:Phong shading? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      The universe could well be modelled by a small black box around Pioneer with temperature 2.7 Kelvin. It "absorbs" any radiation going into it and sends 2.7 Kelvin thermal radiation. Indeed, probably they neglected the 2.7K radiation anyway, so all that remains is a black box. That's about the easiest part to model.

      However I guess Pioneer has not completely diffuse reflection (it probably has some shiny metal parts), and that would be a problem for radiosity.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    4. Re:Phong shading? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your post got me thinking... is it possible to design an object that will continuously gain momentum in space in some given direction, purely because of the interaction between the CMB and the object's asymmetric shape and material?

    5. Re:Phong shading? by Nadaka · · Score: 1

      That is an easy one to answer. And the answer is no.

    6. Re:Phong shading? by camperdave · · Score: 3, Informative

      They don't have to worry about the radiation of the universe. Pioneer has a radioactive battery which serves not only to power the on board electronics, but to keep them from freezing. The heat from the Warm Electronics Box is soaking through the craft and being emitted as infrared photons. These photons are bouncing off the back of the radio dish antenna and are slowing down the craft.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    7. Re:Phong shading? by mikael · · Score: 1

      There is the Solar Sail

      On earth, you can play around with Crookes radiometer

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    8. Re:Phong shading? by Entropy2016 · · Score: 1

      A solar sail wouldn't accomplish what he was proposing. The CMB is (as far as a solar sail would be concerned) pretty much the same in all directions. In a universe with no stars and only the CMB, a solar sail would go nowhere.

      Also, a Crookes radiometer isn't a good example, as it requires a partial-vaccume to work. They don't work in the hard-vaccume of space.

    9. Re:Phong shading? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks. So imagine the object is a thin sheet with a reflective side pointing left and an opaque side pointing right. Let x be the net momentum of the CMB hitting one side of the sheet. It seems like

      - the reflective side will reflect CMB radiation coming from the left, imparting 2*x units of momentum to the right, and
      - the opaque side will absorb CMB radiation coming from the right, imparting x units momentum to the left, then heat up, and reemit the energy in a random direction (both sides equally likely since the object is thin), so no additional net momentum.

      The total is x units of momentum to the right. Pushing the reasoning, the object's speed would keep climbing until the blue-shifted CMB in front has twice the energy as the red-shifted CMB in the rear, which is a pretty damn fast final speed.

      Where's the error?

    10. Re:Phong shading? by famebait · · Score: 1

      The error is in your treatment of the reflecting side.
      It does indeed conserve the momentum of an incoming photon, but in doing so triples the energy with no satisfactory explenation.

      --
      sudo ergo sum
    11. Re:Phong shading? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Triples the energy? Why?

      Suppose the object's speed is v0. It gets hit by a CMB photon from the left, and now the object's speed is v1. Lets analyse conservation of energy of the collision. Choose a reference frame moving at constant (v0+v1)/2 speed. The kinetic energy of the object went from 0.5*m*((v0-v1)/2)^2 to 0.5*m*((v1-v0)/2)^2 so it didn't change. The photon bounced with the exact same (but now negative) momentum so its energy didn't change. Since energy is conserved in one frame, it is conserved in all frames. In other frames, like the CMB frame, the momentum of the photon won't be split exactly as x = -x + 2x, but as x = (-x+epsilon) + (2x-epsilon) where epsilon is small.

  6. Excuse my ignorance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But how exactly is heat contributing to this? Unlike most Slashdotters, I'm no self-professed rocket scientist. My understanding of space propulsion is that you throw some mass in the opposite direction of the one you want to travel in

    1. Re:Excuse my ignorance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mass or energy, since they're both the same thing. Infrared radiation is energy after all.

    2. Re:Excuse my ignorance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > But how exactly is heat contributing to this?

      The heat in question is nuclear power.

      This heats reflection off of the superstructure of the craft is the source.

    3. Re:Excuse my ignorance by utoddl · · Score: 1

      Right, well, heat is energy, which as Einstein showed, is mass. So, figure out the net "heat emitted" vector and you've got your opposite reaction thingy right there.

    4. Re:Excuse my ignorance by show+me+altoids · · Score: 1

      Radiated heat exerts a force also. It is related to radiation pressure, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_pressure, but kind of in reverse in a Newton's Third Law kind of way.

      --
      I feel sorry for people that don't drink, because when they get up in the morning, that's as good as they're gonna feel
    5. Re:Excuse my ignorance by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2

      The important part is not the mass, but the momentum. Total momentum is conserved, therefore to accelerate (i.e. to increase your momentum) you'll have to emit something carrying the momentum difference (because in space, there's nothing else you could transfer your momentum to). One way is just to throw some matter out, which then of course has backwards momentum, thus giving you forward momentum (remember, the sum must be zero). But radiation also has momentum, therefore you can also emit radiation backwards. Indeed, if only looking at the energy needed, the best propulsion method would be to send a strong laser beam out of your ship, because light has the least energy for a given momentum (according to Einstein, E^2 = (mc^2)^2 + (pc)^2, and for light, m=0).

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    6. Re:Excuse my ignorance by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1

      Then again, it took almost 30 years for the change in momentum to be measurable, so don't expect any guest appearances on Top Gear.

      --
      No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
    7. Re:Excuse my ignorance by rubycodez · · Score: 2

      eh? The WORST thing is light, because light has so very little momentum for so much energy. Using light in collimated beam, it takes 300MW per newton (0.2 lbs) of thrust. or if you reflect the light off of ship from external source, 150 MW per newton. For photonic rocket thrust equals power divided by C, it's a bitch.

    8. Re:Excuse my ignorance by lxs · · Score: 1

      Photons may not have mass, but they do carry momentum, and that's what counts.

    9. Re:Excuse my ignorance by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Photons have the worst case energy/momentum ratio. The advantage of photon drives is not energy efficiency (because they're completely the opposite), it's that you don't need reaction mass.

      So if you only need minute amounts of thrust, and have some long-lasting but light-weight source of energy (like an RTG), you can thrust basically forever.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    10. Re:Excuse my ignorance by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      That "thrust basically forever" is good if source is external, then we're talking about solar sails or laser boosting reflectors. But for onboard source it's terrible thing, running a reactor onboard one would be better off using ion thruster, a little fuel with high momentum per particle. The only time photonic propulsion would give massive thrust is with matter-antimatter annihilation, if one could figure out how to reflect gamma rays from one end of the reaction chamber

    11. Re:Excuse my ignorance by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      An ion engine needs a source of energy and reaction mass. It's a very efficient use of reaction mass, but nevertheless. So for the same energy source, you can thrust longer with a photon drive.

      Massive thrust is not the point of a photonic drive because they suck at it. Ion drives aren't great at thrust either, but they do have more. So it depends on the particular application which one would be better, though I think for most things we're doing in the near term ion drives are better.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    12. Re:Excuse my ignorance by radtea · · Score: 3, Informative

      The WORST thing is light, because light has so very little momentum for so much energy.

      Unless of course the light is free. The solar constant is about 1 kW/m**2, so solar sails get 1 N per 150,000 m**2, or a circle of about 250 m diameter.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    13. Re:Excuse my ignorance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? "The" solar constant? Maybe at the distance Earth is, dumbass! Think it'll go down a bit as we move away from the Sun? Idiot.

    14. Re:Excuse my ignorance by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      That's great, even to Mars it only goes to somewhat less than half that power, but by Jupiter it's less than 1/25th....can you see the problem?

    15. Re:Excuse my ignorance by radtea · · Score: 1

      Mars is actually 1/4 the force per unit area (inverse square law and all that) but a bit of simple simulation shows that solar sails are probably practical out to Jupiter, where there is still sufficient sunlight to manage orbital insertion without much difficulty.

      So yeah, I see the problem, and unlike you I've actually done to modelling to understand the limitations quantitatively, rather than just waving my hands about it.

      Although you're still better than the clown who responded above, who doesn't know what the solar constant is.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    16. Re:Excuse my ignorance by radtea · · Score: 1

      Really: THE solar constant. That's what it's called.

      A bit of modelling shows that solar sails are likely to be practical out to the orbit of Jupiter, as anyone who has actually studied the problem knows.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  7. Here's the article ... by Intron · · Score: 4, Informative

    ... from Slava Turyshev which describes what they did to model the craft and show that heat could be the culprit.

    http://www.planetary.org/programs/projects/pioneer_anomaly/update_20080519.html

    --
    Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
  8. Cover Up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I take this to mean they've finally received contact from Nibiru.

  9. Re:Stupid scientists by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 3, Funny

    Fucking Phong Shading. How does it work?

    --
    <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
  10. Janus! by grub · · Score: 1

    Janus is pulling them!
    (just finished Pulling Ice. I'm sorry.)

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:Janus! by Sterling+Christensen · · Score: 1

      You mean Pushing Ice, right?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushing_Ice

    2. Re:Janus! by grub · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Holy crap, I finished it only on Monday and already screwed up the name. At least I got the moon name correct... ;)

      --
      Trolling is a art,
  11. And Planet X woulda got away with it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if it weren't for you meddling kids!

  12. sounds like radiosity too by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 1

    Radiosity being a 90s computer graphics term for calculation how radiation (heat and light) hit surfaces and are absorbed or re-emitted by them. It came from earlier studies on this not relating to computer graphics.

    You can render your radiosity results using phong shading or other shading techniques.

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
    1. Re:sounds like radiosity too by robthebloke · · Score: 1

      You can render your radiosity results using phong shading or other shading techniques.

      You could, but that would be a very stupid thing to do. Why go to the bother of computing an accurate colour for a point on a surface, to then modulate it with an in-accurate plastic surface approximation? That makes absolutely no sense.

  13. Um, Ray Tracing? by emarkp · · Score: 1

    Imagine how well you'd model this using monte-carlo techniques / ray tracing.

    1. Re:Um, Ray Tracing? by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      yea it should take no time at all to ray-trace every source of radiation for a couple billion miles

    2. Re:Um, Ray Tracing? by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      I can't tell if you think you're being sarcastic or not. If you are, don't be that's still pretty easy. Especially since the sun is probably 99.9% of the energy.

      I could probably setup just such a simulation in pretty short order given a nice CSV source list.

    3. Re:Um, Ray Tracing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so there are no other sources of radiation or heat other than the sun during the entire path of the craft?

  14. Re:Stupid scientists by robthebloke · · Score: 1

    Poorly when compared to Cook-Torrence, Blinn or Oren-Nayar.

  15. How close did they get? Error bars? by Moof123 · · Score: 2

    I RTFA, but didn't find the results of their calculation. The old method yielded 67% of the effect, but they didn't say what the new method resulted in (other than get the "right" answer). Also I'd want to know error bars. Does the new answer +/- error bars overlap with the detected phenomena within the error bars of it's value?

  16. You young-uns ain't all that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you're this old, let's just see how your probe looks in a phong!

  17. Can someone explain this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I remember Phong as a rough approximation for some simplistic lighting models and surfaces.

    For this anomaly, wouldn't someone be able to do a nice monte carlo simulation and get results as accurate as they want to establish a picture of the steady state conditions? They should be able to model the entire space craft including original heat source(s), other structures acting as thermal masses, reflectors, absorbers, and radiators, and apply known material properties for how each photon should behave statistically.

    Or is it necessary to solve computationally using only 1970s vintage equipment?

    1. Re:Can someone explain this? by mdielmann · · Score: 1

      They should be able to model the entire space craft including original heat source(s), other structures acting as thermal masses, reflectors, absorbers, and radiators, and apply known material properties for how each photon should behave statistically.

      ...and include all the damage, dust, pitting, and corrosion incurred over more than a decade in space, and how that will affect absorbtion/reflection. Do you happen to have any accurate models for that? Of course, an alternative is to use a model that gets us into the 'good enough' category...oh, wait!

      --
      Sure I'm paranoid, but am I paranoid enough?
    2. Re:Can someone explain this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and include all the damage, dust, pitting, and corrosion incurred over more than a decade in space, and how that will affect absorbtion/reflection. Do you happen to have any accurate models for that? Of course, an alternative is to use a model that gets us into the 'good enough' category...oh, wait!

      Don't be obtuse. Your objections are just as much a problem for Phong as they are for any other model.

      As for Phong, there's no reason I can see to use it here. The goal was to more accurately model the effects of infrared radiation pressure from the onboard RTG, since back-of-the-envelope calculations had shown that this might account for something like 60% of the mysterious acceleration. But Phong shading is a realtime graphics approximation. It wasn't ever intended to accurately model physics, just to be close enough for pretty pictures. We have better computational methods if you want accuracy. It is very odd that the paper in TFA didn't use any of them.

      (Also, corrosion? In space? Really? Pedanticism fail.)

  18. Phong? by Grindalf · · Score: 0

    Phong? Whew, that was what we used to use on Macintosh Infini D version 1.0 in the early 90s because the IIc was so slow. You would have thought they would have Ray Trace with Radiosity by now :o) ...

    --
    The purpose of existence is to make money.
  19. Re:How close did they get? Error bars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then you have to read it better, IMHO.

  20. Re:How close did they get? Error bars? by Alsee · · Score: 1

    Does the new answer +/- error bars overlap with the detected phenomena within the error bars of it's value?

    If you read the paper itself, there's a graph on page 10 showing exactly that. The error bars on the measured size of the effect overlap almost completely with the error bars on this new calculation.

    Direct thermal radiation off the front of the craft explains most of the effect. The "Pioneer anomaly" vanishes completely once you factor in radiation reflected off the antenna dish. It still warrants some more investigation and more papers pinning it down better, but in my opinion this issue can now be pretty solidly categorized as resolved.

    -

    --
    - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
  21. Flyby Anomaly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And now, let's solve the "Flyby Anomaly".

  22. Re:How close did they get? Error bars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FTA: "These results account for between 44% and 96% of the reported value". Note: that quote is cherry-picked; if you want all the details, RTFA.

  23. Re:Hairyfeet: Tell us about STATIC vs. DYNAMIC, lo by tophermeyer · · Score: 1

    Your malicious disregard for basic communication makes me want to side with Hairyfeet on principle alone.

    Also, you should know that I am a little embarrassed that I took the time to 6 posts in the thread you linked. The fact that you seem to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every post you've ever made here leads me to believe you take the goal of winning at internet way to seriously.

  24. 7 digit alternate registered acct of HAIRYFEET's? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: Especially since it's from one of HAIRYFEET's many trolling accounts (& IF you don't think that goes on here? Please... see the words of someone VERY respected on THAT account):

    It just takes one Ubuntu sympathizer or PR flack to minus-moderate any comment. Unfortunately, once PR agencies and so on started paying people to moderate online communities, and to have hundreds of accounts each, things changed. - by Bruce Perens (3872) on Friday July 30 2010, @04:55PM (#33089192) Homepage Journal

    So, do you *THINK* you're really "fooling anyone" Hairyfeet?

    (LMAO - "NOT!")

    APK

    P.S.=> TO this, I will tell you EXACTLY how I do it (born that way, near photographic/eidetic memory):

    "The fact that you seem to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every post you've ever made here leads me to believe you take the goal of winning at internet way to seriously." - by tophermeyer (1573841) on Thursday March 31, @04:11PM (#35682048)

    Comes in handy when trolls like Hairyfeet screwup & troll me, which he did 1st to me this week, attempting to libel me... & that same memory brought up what VINDICATED me as well, easily... thank the good lord, I say! apk

  25. Re:7 digit alternate registered acct of HAIRYFEET' by tophermeyer · · Score: 1

    Comes in handy when trolls like Hairyfeet screwup & troll me,

    But probably not too helpful in talking to people.

    APK, who are you? I apologize for my ignorance, but I'm not certain who you are and why people would seek to defame you. You should know that your anonymous postings and disjointed writing style make you seem less "persecuted intellectual" and more "schizophrenic homeless dude under a bridge".

  26. Re:7 digit alternate registered acct of HAIRYFEET' by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

    He is a known troll and malware writer who follows around and trollbombs anyone who points out that even simple math shows his "invention" doesn't work.

    There is a reason why everyone abandoned HOSTS files in the late 90s, and that is because they slow your PC down while giving NO protection from malware. it is simple math really, you have a large (estimates at 1.5 million+) dynamically shifting target, where sites become infected, cleaned, reinfected, thousands by the day, sometimes thousands by the hour, yet this loon is convinced that a static HOSTS file will magically protect you from malware.

    Sadly this person is also a paranoid schizophrenic with a serious persecution complex who will follow you around, sometimes for months on end, so he can "trollbomb" any posts you place while calling anyone who doesn't join his AC sockpuppet army a "shill post" or a sockpuppet, while quoting from people that frankly wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire like Bruce Perens, and then quotes them in completely unrelated matters to boot.

    So don't be surprised if Crazy Petey follows you around for a few days friend, you dared to say something that goes against his "I'm a leet hacker that everyone fears!" delusion, just as I have been followed off and on for months, with everyone that points out what a batshit loonie Petey is being accused of being part of some vast super HB Gary sockpuppet army controlled by me and the Illuminati. I used to think the guy was just a Twitter style troll, now sadly I think he seriously needs some help. It is a shame nobody can track this guy down and do an intervention, as just from his writing style you can tell he is coming off the rails.

    --
    ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  27. Suppressed Science? by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1
    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  28. Shading in Pong? by Dabido · · Score: 1

    I don't remember Pong having any shading, just a black screen with white rectangles!!!!

    --
    Sure enough, the cow costume was hanging up next to the superhero outfit and sailors uniform. (S,Spud)
  29. there goes warp drive by vmaldia · · Score: 1

    Aw crap! I was hoping the anomaly might point to a new physical effect that could be used to make warp drive or something

  30. Source of Inertia by i621148 · · Score: 1

    Wow, man somebody is on the ball at Wikipedia. Inertia is one of my favorite topics and somebody has already corrected this entry which used to say:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertia
    Source of Inertia
    There is no single accepted theory that explains the source of Inertia. Various efforts by notable physicists such as Ernst Mach (see Mach's principle), Albert Einstein, D Sciama, and Bernard Haisch have all run into significant criticisms from more recent theorists. A review is given by Vesselin Petkov (2009)[12].
    For a recent treatment of the issue see C. Johan Masreliez (2006)[13]. Masreliez has published more on inertia related issues that may also have a say in solving the Pioneer anomaly.