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Merck's Drug Propecia Linked To Sexual Dysfunction

zaxios writes "Merck — the pharmaceutical giant previously featured on Slashdot for drawing up a 'hit list' of doctors that criticized its drug Vioxx, and creating a fake medical journal to endorse its products — is embroiled in a new scandal. USA Today is reporting on two new studies that show Propecia, Merck's $250 million prescription medication for baldness, can make men irreversibly impotent. Lawsuits have been filed in the United States and Canada from men claiming to have permanently lost their sexual function after taking the drug. All this is reminiscent of Merck's difficulties with Vioxx, a once $2.5-billion-a-year drug, which was withdrawn from the market in 2004 after a study showed it doubled the risk of heart attack and stroke in users."

235 comments

  1. Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...Propecia is an anti-androgen! Duh.

    1. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by Khyber · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is the correct answer.

      Anyone that doesn't understand this shit should be suing their doctor for not telling them, not the drug company.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    2. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by codeAlDente · · Score: 1

      Nobody should be suing anybody, especially older, crisis-stricken men who don't want to be raising no childrens anyhow. Props to zaxios for calling out the Merck fraudsters.

      --
      He once inserted random mutations into his code, just so he could have the experience of debugging.
    3. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by Dexter+Herbivore · · Score: 1

      ...which was withdrawn from the market in 2004 after a study showed it doubled the risk of heart attack and stroke in users.

      So surely the current drug is a win/win, when you're impotent you get a MUCH lower incidence of users that stroke.

    4. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      Nobody should be suing anybody, especially older, crisis-stricken men who don't want to be raising no childrens anyhow.

      Truly, there are waaaaay more old men with wood than pervs who want them. Though I suppose it's a boon to the sex workers.

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    5. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      >>Anyone that doesn't understand this shit should be suing their doctor for not telling them, not the drug company.

      Yeah, I looked at propecia once (a friend was on it, but it certainly didn't seem to affect his sex drive), saw the mechanism of action and that was basically that. No way I was going to fuck with my body's hormone balance in order to keep (it doesn't even regrow) hair. It comes as absolutely no surprise to me that it can affect one's sex drive.

      Rogaine, by comparison, was used as a drug to lower blood pressure, which is also something I could probably use, so I went with that instead.

    6. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      You can still want wood even if you don't want kids.

      --
      No sig today...
    7. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by VoidCrow · · Score: 1

      Truly, there are waaaaay more old men with wood than pervs who want them. Though I suppose it's a bone to the sex workers.

      FTFY

    8. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      The old, bald men want new hair to attract young women to have sex with, not to raise kids.

    9. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by zaxios · · Score: 1

      ...Propecia is an anti-androgen! Duh.

      This is the correct answer. Anyone that doesn't understand this

    10. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by zaxios · · Score: 4, Informative

      ...Propecia is an anti-androgen! Duh.

      This is the correct answer. Anyone that doesn't understand this shit should be suing their doctor for not telling them, not the drug company.

      Antiandrogens are only supposed to have that effect temporarily, while you're taking them. The significance of these new studies is that they show Propecia is causing permanent impotence - it persists even after you stop the drug. That is not a known behaviour of antiandrogens, and was not disclosed to patients considering Propecia.

    11. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So tell us why it's irreversible? It's an anti 5AR drug. It blocks an ENZYME, jackass.

    12. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by realityimpaired · · Score: 4, Informative

      Some anti-androgen drugs are not permanent in their disruption of the androgen system... Cyproterone, for example, is normally used to treat prostate cancer (and also used for hirsutism and baldness in females, and for MtF transsexuals (though AFAIK, it's not approved for that use in the US)), and works by binding with testosterone receptors, blocking testosterone uptake, which in turn causes the body to freak out and stop producing the lutenizing hormone, which in turn stops the signal to produce testosterone. Once you stop taking Cyproterone, however, the body starts producing the testosterone again, and normal sexual function should return for males.

      Such a drug *could* be used to temporarily stay baldness, but again, as soon as you stopped taking the drug, the mechanism that's causing the baldness would start again.

      Though there's another major reason that males shouldn't be taking anti-androgen drugs... you don't have enough estrogen in your systems to stay off osteoperosis without the testosterone in your systems. Females do have the estrogens, and transsexuals are taking the estrogens, but males should *not* be taking an anti-androgen for a prolonged period of time because the lack of testosterone will cause your bone density to fall... IMO, that's a far more serious life problem than losing your hair, but I guess some folks are vain. :(

      obligatory disclaimer: I'm not a doctor, but I do know several people who are taking the drug in question, both to treat hirsutism and for transsexualism.

    13. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by mysidia · · Score: 2

      Just because they're older/don't want to be raising children, doesn't mean they are not sexually active (eg recreational sex)

      The drug's linked to erectile dysfunction and loss of libido. If the user specifically accepts that is a side effect after being properly informed, then fine.

      Otherwise, yes, they should be contemplating some action against the person who recommended the drug and wrote them the prescription without warning.

      Although in all fairness.... they cannot claim innocence. They should have read the drug's information sheet as generally provided by the pharmacist. Just because you think you know what the drug is, and you talked with your doctor about it, does not relieve you of reading the information sheet about the drug, including its side effects, and usage instructions (such as what drugs _not_ to take at the same time).

    14. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Truly, there are waaaaay more old men with wood than pervs who want them. Though I suppose it's a boon to the sex workers.

      Ahh..... think Merck's going to get a class action suit against them from sex workers over lost revenues?

    15. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      It's been known for decades that continual ingestion of anti-androgens (for a period of over 6 months) can cause permanent loss of potency. This lawsuit is bogus.

    16. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by zaxios · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's been known for decades that continual ingestion of anti-androgens (for a period of over 6 months) can cause permanent loss of potency.

      Simply wrong. They provide a loss of potency while on the medication - which, in the case of prostate cancer, is usually years. And yes, the loss of potency worsens after several months. But it does not persist after treatment. Here is a quote from Merck's page for Propecia: "A small number of men had sexual side effects, with each occurring in less than 2% of men. These include less desire for sex, difficulty in achieving an erection, and a decrease in the amount of semen. These side effects went away in men who stopped taking PROPECIA because of them." That information has turned out to be wrong. Are you seriously telling me they shouldn't be liable for giving prospective patients wrong information about side effects? If so, why not?

    17. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by tomhudson · · Score: 1
      Please read again the page you linked to. Nowhere does it say that there cannot be permanent side effects - only that 2% of males experienced the side effects, and that they went away when they stopped taking the drug, in a limited-time trial.

      That is NOT the same as long-term use.

    18. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by PNutts · · Score: 1

      They should have read the drug's information sheet as generally provided by the pharmacist.

      Your use of the word "generally" means that it isn't always given out. What should those patients do?

      8% is much different than less than 2% and for something like this it would be enough to turn me away. Much different than the typical "headache, nausea, dizziness, blurred vision".

      Nowhere did the warning say the condition might be permanent.

    19. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Nowhere does it say that there cannot be permanent side effects...

      Really? That's your argument? I bet it also doesn't say that it'll give you snakes for hair, but I'm pretty sure you'd sue if you became a Medusa.

      Informed consent requires information, not just the opportunity to read between the lines.

    20. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by zaxios · · Score: 1

      Until these two studies were published, there was not a single piece of literature suggesting that finasteride could cause sexual dysfunction persisting after cessation of the medication. The Irwig paper expressly says as much in one of the early paragraphs. Cite me something that says otherwise and we'll talk.

    21. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiandrogen

      How about you study what the hell an antiandrogen is, and what it does?

      NOTHING is ever guaranteed. Just because some doctor or marketing moron says this or that doesn't make it fully correct.

      When you fuck with hormones, expect consequences, potentially permanent ones.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    22. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet marijuana is still illegal. Keep using the legal (taxed) drugs, you (impotent) troglodytes.
      I'll be smokin that purple nurple.

      Anticipating "this is medicine, not recreational drug use" reply- Yeah, that receding hairline was a matter of life or death, right?

    23. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great job on the link that describes what antiandrogens do while you take them. Outstanding job. Is your IQ like 62 that you can't keep up with these two concepts: (1) medications can have an effect while you take them, and (2) whether they continue having that effect after you stop taking them is a different issue. Jesus fucking Christ.

    24. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by ae1294 · · Score: 1

      Mr Anderson, what good is a full head of hair if you're now completely impotent...

    25. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      I guess you failed to read further in the link, specifically the sources which comprise the link, which have very detailed information about long-term effects even after short-term medication.

      Remember: Wikipedia is just a snippet of a bunch of sources. You need to read the sources to fully understand, which is something you apparently are incapable of doing.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    26. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      keep (it doesn't even regrow) hair.

      Some men certainly regrow hair after taking Propecia for a while. I know this because it worked for me.

      But then there are other commonly prescribed drugs that give me side effects that most other people don't get. Any time you take something you're taking a calculated risk. You could get lucky, or unlucky.

    27. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by mysidia · · Score: 0

      Your use of the word "generally" means that it isn't always given out. What should those patients do?

      I use the word 'generally' only because it is possible the pharmacist could fail to perform their duties properly. If the patient does not receive the pertinent information, then FDA regulations are being violated. The FDA publishes the information as well, and the patient could visit the proper government website on their own; or google search the medicine, and find things like the Slashdot article.

      Specifically CFR21:

      (a)Highlights of prescribing information . The following information must appear in all prescription drug labeling: [...]
      (10)Warnings and precautions . A concise summary of the most clinically significant information required under paragraph (c)(6) of this section, with any appropriate subheadings, including information that would affect decisions about whether to prescribe a drug, recommendations for patient monitoring that are critical to safe use of the drug, and measures that can be taken to prevent or mitigate harm. [...]
      (11)Adverse reactions . (i) A list of the most frequently occurring adverse reactions, as described in paragraph (c)(7) of this section, along with the criteria used to determine inclusion (e.g., incidence rate). Adverse reactions important for other reasons (e.g., because they are serious or frequently lead to discontinuation or dosage adjustment) must not be repeated under this heading in Highlights if they are included elsewhere in Highlights (e.g., Warnings and Precautions, Contraindications).

    28. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      Normally, men who are past the usual age of wanting children still enjoy sex. When you are in your forties, fifties, sixties you and your partner would be upset if someone took that ability away. Maybe you're in your teens or twenties and you think "old" people don't need sex, but in a decade or two or three you will have a very different opinion on that matter.

      ---- almost fifty and still getting it on with the wife!

    29. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by Phoghat · · Score: 1

      Finasteride (marketed by Merck under the trademark names Proscar and Propecia, also available under several generic names) is a synthetic antiandrogen that inhibits type II 5-alpha reductase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). Finasteride was initially approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in 1992 under the brand name Proscar, as treatment for benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH). In 1997, the FDA approved finasteride to treat male pattern baldness (MPB) under the brand name Propecia

      As anecdotal evidence ONLY the drugs have been out for almost 14 years, and as a pharmacist I've never heard any complaints about it's side effects. Believe me, that would make men complain the loudest.

      Remember, medicine is the best medicine, fuck laughter!

      --
      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    30. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by KingBenny · · Score: 0

      you meant to say "the doctor AND the drug company", right? :)

      --
      Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
    31. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, an easy way of avoiding having kids without a pesky doctor notifying your spouse when you go in to get snipped? Nice!

    32. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is the possibility though that it's just normal ED due to aging? Say you started taking it in your 30's when you were still sexually healthy then stop in your 50's when there is higher chance of ED and other sexual dysfunctions... Can you really blame the drug? It could all be a coincidence.

    33. Re:Uh, of course it causes impotence, dumbasses... by codeAlDente · · Score: 1

      FYI, I had that discussion with the wife, and so far the verdict is that 2 kids is enough. Never thought oldness would preclude my sexiness. My fraudsters comment was directed at such claims, which you don't refute, as "drawing up a 'hit list' of doctors that criticized its drug Vioxx, and creating a fake medical journal to endorse its products" The goal of creating boner pills is not the issue.

      --
      He once inserted random mutations into his code, just so he could have the experience of debugging.
  2. So let me get this straight... by FSWKU · · Score: 2

    You take a pill to cure baldness, ostensibly because you find your lack of hair hampers your ability to get laid. But after taking the pills you end up with a full head of hair and maybe even a woman because of it, and you're unable to perform?

    Seems like you're damned if you do, damned if you dont...

    --
    "So after all this, you make my case for me. To end this stalemate, you must die..."
    1. Re:So let me get this straight... by fivevoltforest · · Score: 1

      If the drug also made you grow facial hair, I would say that moustache rides would still be an option.

    2. Re:So let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But you're damned less if you don't. Chicks dig the Patrick Stewart look. It's true, I heard it on the internet.

    3. Re:So let me get this straight... by jamesh · · Score: 1

      Seems like you're damned if you do, damned if you dont...

      Unless your girl knows a thing or two about what causes baldness... like Christine Lavin does...

    4. Re:So let me get this straight... by nido · · Score: 0

      Seems like you're damned if you do, damned if you dont...

      There are always options, the difference is in who profits.

      From the fine slashdot summary:

      Propecia ... can make men irreversibly impotent.

      From the fine article:

      In a small percentage of cases, symptoms persisted even after the medication was stopped.

      For those men, "it's a life sentence," said lead researcher Abdulmaged M. Traish, a professor of biochemistry and urology at Boston University School of Medicine.

      "No sex. No desire. Potential depression," Traish added.

      Translation: taking the drug takes the man's ability to have an erection away. Just stopping the drug isn't enough to restore normal function. There's no way for the pharmaceutical industry to earn $2.5 billion dollars a year on unpatentable nutritional therapy, acupuncture needles, botanicals, etc, so it is better for "Wall Street" to lose a few lawsuits and let men think that they're irreparably damaged than to put a chink in their own armor. (Reference for "Wall Street's" takeover of medical education, which mostly limits doctors' training to drugs & surgery: 100 years of medical robbery).

      I have a friend who uses acupuncture points to help men get their woodies back. She is developing several lines of informational products that show how to hold specific points to restore and enhance male sexual function. Her marketing advisor said to get this domain name: Energy Viagra For Long Lasting Sex, that by the time the "blue pill" trademark holder comes after her she'll be famous and won't need to use that domain anymore.

      "Energy Viagra" is for impotence... I think her premature ejaculation package is almost done...

      Put an email address into the box and she'll be sure to let you know how to order her DVDs. :)

      --
      Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
      www.teslabox.com
    5. Re:So let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was the most elaborate viagra spam comment I've ever seen. I think we just reached the singularity.

    6. Re:So let me get this straight... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      You take a pill to cure baldness, ostensibly because you find your lack of hair hampers your ability to get laid. But after taking the pills you end up with a full head of hair and maybe even a woman because of it, and you're unable to perform? Seems like you're damned if you do, damned if you dont...

      I've got this funny shaped blue pill for you, sir. When you get a headache from that, why here's some aspirin. Got a tummy ache from the aspirin? Here's some Tagamet

      And on and on and on.... It's pharmaceuticals all the way down.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  3. Nah by MrEricSir · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Self-confidence, social ability, and how you dress are more important than your hair.

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    1. Re:Nah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Hey c'mon, everybody knows Picard got more than Riker, and just look at the hair HE had :D

    2. Re:Nah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I always think of this whenever the subject of hair loss/baldness comes up:

      The accolades [Stewart] has received include "Sexiest Man on Television" (TV Guide, 1992), which he considered an unusual distinction considering his age and his baldness. In an interview with Michael Parkinson, he expressed gratitude for Gene Roddenberry's riposte to a reporter who said, "Surely they would have cured baldness by the 24th century," to which Roddenberry replied, "In the 24th century, they wouldn't care."

      As for me, I'm approaching 50, don't have quite as much hair as I used to, and I'm now living with the most womderful (and goddamned gorgeous) woman it's ever been my pleasure to be with.

      ExecSummary: Whenever one of those Hair Club For Men adverts comes on telly, I just laugh all the way to the bedroom. :)

    3. Re:Nah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hair is way more important than clothes. Especially with younger girls.

    4. Re:Nah by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Hell, is there not a claim that baldness is a signal of genetic strength? At least if one was living back among the trees, living long enough to start balding would indicate some level of disease resistance.

      But then modern advertising have turned all the typical sexual signals topsy turvy...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    5. Re:Nah by TheLink · · Score: 1

      The shape of your skull does matter more if you are bald though.

      Some men look fine bald (good even) whereas others would be better off with hair hiding the shape of their skull.

      --
    6. Re:Nah by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      Self-confidence, social ability, and how you dress are more important than your hair.

      The Myth is dead. Long live the Myth.

    7. Re:Nah by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      Self-confidence, social ability, and how you dress are more important than your hair.

      For many people, losing their hair hurts their self-confidence, which hurts their social ability.
      It shouldn't matter, but it doesn't.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    8. Re:Nah by MrEricSir · · Score: 1

      Actually, since Propecia works by disrupting some kind of testosterone-related hormone -- which is presumably why it causes impotence in the long run -- baldness might very well be an indicator of virility.

      --
      There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    9. Re:Nah by Aeternitas827 · · Score: 1

      Pure speculation. We know Riker got Troi, but Picard...well, all we know was he was an old, unmarried, childless Frenchie. You may presume that he got more alien tang, but such is never brought to light.

      --
      I don't post AC. I like my -1, Flamebaits. Trump/Sheen 2012 on the Batshit Insane ticket!
    10. Re:Nah by SpzToid · · Score: 1

      comment left to un-do an unintentional mod.

      --
      You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
    11. Re:Nah by sjames · · Score: 1

      Mostly because of a gadzillion commercials telling them they are complete losers who can never get laid again if they don't have hair. Some claim they should take a pill, others say they should have a wig glued on (but don't say it that plainly), a few suggest surgically moving their hair around and one or two even claim they should spraypaint their scalps hair colored. The only common thread is "you're a total loser, but if you give us eleventy jillion bucks you can resemble an actual human being again".

    12. Re:Nah by ThePromenader · · Score: 1

      baldness might very well be an indicator of virility

      It is, and this has been proven since the 1970's! Men with less tetesterone usually keep a full head of hair - but they are often more "womanly". A great book on the subject is Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps. Sounds sexist, but it's very fact-based - women and men don't think alike, and this book explains even teh gay. It all comes down to how much of the 'correct' hormone your particular chomosome pair receives...

      --

      No, no sig. Really.

      ThePromenader
    13. Re:Nah by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Pure speculation. We know Riker got Troi, but Picard...well, all we know was he was an old, unmarried, childless Frenchie. You may presume that he got more alien tang, but such is never brought to light.

      Au contraire, mon frère!

      Picard got Vash FTW.

      (There was also Nella Daren, but I always thought she was fairly ordinary.)

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    14. Re:Nah by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Yep, that was the word i was unable to recall. thanks.

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    15. Re:Nah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Girls don't like boys, girls like cars and money..."

    16. Re:Nah by Aeternitas827 · · Score: 1

      Even so, Riker had a regular source; Picard had two flings. Personally, I'd take the former--a regular source that might get frequent headaches--than the irregular that might have some strange super-AIDS that the Federation hadn't zapped yet.

      --
      I don't post AC. I like my -1, Flamebaits. Trump/Sheen 2012 on the Batshit Insane ticket!
    17. Re:Nah by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      I always remember Patrick Stewart for throwing that red shawl around his shoulders and asking, "Can I do this, or do I look like some sort of gay superhero?" in the film Jeffrey, as well as his roles as Picard and Captain Ahab. That man can seriously act.

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    18. Re:Nah by pieterh · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's not so much about genetic strength as about power. Here is the explanation in evolutionary psychology terms.

      Male pattern baldness is an evolved feature that relies on hormonal pathways to trigger. Evolved, meaning it gives an advantage in terms of more success with women, more kids, kids who live longer, and do better.

      Why would going prematurely bald give a man success? The reason is, IMO, about power. Men instinctively trust older men (who know more, have survived, are worth listening to). Premature baldness makes a man look older than he really is. That's a sneaky way to grab power. It demands intelligence, because unless you're smarter than your peers you can't fool them into following you. So there's an inherent association between baldness and smartness.

      I once studied the 100 most powerful people in the UK (Economist report). 4 were women, 96 were men. Of the 96, a significant number were bald, but there was no correlation between baldness and age. I.e., as many younger men with power were as bald as older men.

      Now, as to why men worry about losing their hair? I'd guess, insecurity. Going bald is a gambit, a risk. Obviously you lose attractiveness to women who are looking for a long term partner. You're unlikely to find a woman who wants to settle and raise a family. But if you can pull it off, and get men to follow you, you get power, and a lot of women find that irresistible.

      So the anti-baldness industry caters to insecure men, just as the beauty industry caters to insecure women. Another reason for being proudly bald, it shows not only that you're a born leader of men, smarter than average, and the latest in a long line of winners, but also that you're confident.

    19. Re:Nah by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Definitly.

      And he even manages that when you watch Captain Ahab, you DONT think of the other captain.

      Or compare the two "crewmember ages fast in alternate reality" episodes.

      "The inner light" was fantasic acting. I completly forgot about the enterprise while watching this almost unrelated 45mins . And then take the VOY episode where 7of9 transforms into an old woman. Or rather transforms into y young woman with a grey wig and painted on wrinkels. That was one of the worst moments of acting on TV ever seen! (And I really enjoyed Knight Rider back when I was a kid)

      --
      bickerdyke
    20. Re:Nah by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      And what about the other, obviously wig-wearing captain with the ripped shirts?

      --
      bickerdyke
    21. Re:Nah by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Is there not a connection between stress and early balding as well?

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    22. Re:Nah by 517714 · · Score: 1

      A toupée is not a wig, that is like comparing a tribble to a chinchilla.

      --
      The US government have made it clear that we have no inalienable rights; any we do not defend vigorously will be taken.
    23. Re:Nah by am+2k · · Score: 1

      And then take the VOY episode where 7of9 transforms into an old woman. Or rather transforms into y young woman with a grey wig and painted on wrinkels. That was one of the worst moments of acting on TV ever seen!

      Well, I don't think Jeri Ryan was brought onto the show for her great acting skills...

    24. Re:Nah by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      Great acting has never been the standard on ST (a science fiction tradition), though there's been at least one notable exception on each series. I thought Jerri Ryan, while obviously not an actor of the stature of Patrick Stewart, was overall a pretty good choice to play 7 of 9. The writers didn't do her many favors though (especially on that aging-rapidly episode). Great actors rarely achieve their full promise while young. In that sense, women tend to be at a serious disadvantage in Hollywood.

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    25. Re:Nah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When my hair started to thin when I was about 24 it really didn't bother me that much. I just remembered something that Bob Goldthwait used to say about people with a receding hairline but still wearing it long in back looking like Ben Franklin so I clipped it short and I was fine for years.

      Last summer I met up with a bunch of people that I'd hung out with in my late teens (which occurred in the late `80's). They were looking at a bunch of old pictures and kept picking me out of these group photos of 70 or 80 people by tracking down my light blond hair. They talked about how I had such great hair and that they had all been jealous.

      Suddenly, it bothered me to have my current hair line. I'd never really realized how much other people had identified me so much by that one superficial characteristic.

    26. Re:Nah by hitmark · · Score: 1

      Not sure if we need the religious push for hormone treatments of the gay...

      --
      comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
    27. Re:Nah by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Well.. they're both stupid critters that start growling as soon as they see me.

      --
      bickerdyke
    28. Re:Nah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Self-confidence, social ability, and how you dress are more important than your hair.

      Catch-22, smart-ass! If you begin losing hair when you're 20, your self-confidence will take a DEEP dive, perhaps never to be restored. You can count on that.

    29. Re:Nah by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Please tell me you don't do medical research....

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    30. Re:Nah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TOTALLY agree. I have periodically throughout adulthood shaved my head bald with a razor and have never had hair longer than a 1/4" because my awesome and very hot wife loves it short. Unfortunately for me, it always grows back and needs a cut within a few days...I hate the fact that we are running out of money in this country and the government has to spend money fighting for people who's parts don't work because they had so little self-respect that they had to kill their hormone system with a drug to get more hair...

    31. Re:Nah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But hormones are science! I think we should sacrifice the Pope to a golden goat instead.

    32. Re:Nah by shadowrat · · Score: 1

      I'm in my 40's and have a full head of wavy locks. The chicks really dig my hair, but I chose to shave it off. The chicks dig my bald head to.

      maybe I'm just lucky, but I really think it's the in-between states that don't work. Everyone I know who embraces baldness is a hit with the ladies.

    33. Re:Nah by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      Actually back in the Golden Age the bald were put to death. This freed up resources and gave the adolescent children of baldies a better chance of survival.

    34. Re:Nah by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      I'm with you. I'm a cheesemaker (as in "blessed are the..."), and I originally started shaving my head as a way of making the wearing of hairnets redundant. Being a baldie is so much more comfortable, I wouldn't live any other way.

      All the ladies I know seem to be cool with this, fortunately including my wife. It's much more attractive (not to mention dignified) to accept and embrace the vagaries of your body's growth than to take ridiculous steps (such as combovers) to mask them.

    35. Re:Nah by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      Since you mentioned, it turn out that Pharma has pills for all those potential "ailments" as well.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    36. Re:Nah by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      Also Beverly Crusher, in an alternative timeline, and he was married in that alternative life he had when he was hit by a beam from a probe.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    37. Re:Nah by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      As they say: "It's not a bald spot, it's a solar panel for a sex machine."

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    38. Re:Nah by shinkanzen · · Score: 1

      but swallowing a pill is so much easier than improving the mentioned stuff. there is a lot of money to be made in convenience (exploiting a. peoples lack of self-esteem b. their lack of motivation to do something to improve their lives)

    39. Re:Nah by Muad'Dave · · Score: 1

      Don't forget that Picard and Anij had a slow-motion fling in ST:Insurrection.

      --
      Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
  4. Ironic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    At last! I can correctly use that word.

  5. This drug really screws up female fertility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    20 years ago, I knew a lady who worked at Merck, about the time Propecia was "discovered". In reality, it was developed as a drug for another purpose (something to do with the prostate) and the hair growth was a side effect. She, and no other females, were allowed in the production area, as exposure caused irreversible infertility in females, and it was really bad for pregnant women.

    1. Re:This drug really screws up female fertility by UBfusion · · Score: 1

      IIRC many drugs were discovered this way - through a side effect they had while targeting a different problem.

      The irony of it is that one wants to stop baldness to get more chicks, while the end result is putting themselves out of the genetic pool. Evolution is an evil bitch.

    2. Re:This drug really screws up female fertility by Seumas · · Score: 1

      Kind of like the Gardisil vaccine which was announced for young girls - supposedly around the age of twelve - to prevent HPV and possible cancer, later in life. Dumbass parents were against it, however (not because it was rational to look into any testing that was actually done or anything, but because they thought that protecting their children for the rest of their lives by giving them a shot at twelve would cause them to immediately start fucking on the way out of the doctor's office).

      In fact, Merck lobbied heavily to get the government to make the vaccine a requirement for any girl 11-12 years of age attending public school.

      Anyway, it didn't take off. Partially due to the above and partially due to various other criticisms by the medical profession (such required vaccines typically being to prevent things casually spread, such as mumps; not sexually transmitted).

      Anyway, that having not become the huge cash cow the drug industry was hoping for, it magically turned into a cancer-prevention drug for girls and boys the following year. If that doesn't take off, I'm sure they'll find that it's also a great on-going treatment for low blood pressure or erectile dysfunction or a fantastic food additive or something. Gotta keep finding a way to make money off of it, of course.

    3. Re:This drug really screws up female fertility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyway, it didn't take off. Partially due to the above and partially due to various other criticisms by the medical profession (such required vaccines typically being to prevent things casually spread, such as mumps; not sexually transmitted).

      Anyone who thinks STDs aren't spread "casually" is fooling themselves.

    4. Re:This drug really screws up female fertility by dbIII · · Score: 1
      It's not their drug they just claim credit for it and charge more than anyone else in the world for it. Australian taxpayers like myself paid for both the development of the drug AND getting US approval. Merck pays a very small royalty and puts a huge markup on it.

      it magically turned into a cancer-prevention drug for girls and boys the following year

      The thing is the virus doesn't just get into the cervix. It's been linked to quite a few throat and bowel cancers in men but people are wary about talking about that in case we get the whole wrath of God on gays thing coming up again. It can still get there in hetero men of course.

    5. Re:This drug really screws up female fertility by snowgirl · · Score: 3, Informative

      20 years ago, I knew a lady who worked at Merck, about the time Propecia was "discovered". In reality, it was developed as a drug for another purpose (something to do with the prostate) and the hair growth was a side effect. She, and no other females, were allowed in the production area, as exposure caused irreversible infertility in females, and it was really bad for pregnant women.

      Your story is absolutely bogus. Propecia cannot cause infertility in women, as it causes a breakdown in the development of Dihydrogen-testosterone from Testosterone by blocking the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme. (It is a 5a-reductase inhibitor.) Women do not need testosterone or testosterone-analogs for fertility, thus Propecia has no mechanism whereby it could cause infertility in women. (In men? Yeah, it by definition will cause testosterone-analog "deficiency", which can include sexual dysfunction.)

      Rather, the real reason why pregnancy is so bad is that if you are being exposed to a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor is that if a child developing in the womb has an XY genotype, then they will develop with 5-alpha-reductase deficiency and if the concentrations are high enough, they will develop female primary sexual characteristics despite having testicles and Wolfian ducts.

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    6. Re:This drug really screws up female fertility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      20 years ago, I knew a lady who worked at Merck, about the time Propecia was "discovered". In reality, it was developed as a drug for another purpose (something to do with the prostate) and the hair growth was a side effect. She, and no other females, were allowed in the production area, as exposure caused irreversible infertility in females, and it was really bad for pregnant women.

      False. Propecia causes side effects in pregnant women who are carrying a male fetus.

    7. Re:This drug really screws up female fertility by gabrieltss · · Score: 1

      Except that Gardisil is KILLING girls that take it. In fact Australia BANNED the drug after it killed more than 30 girls in a short period of time. Kind of like Bayer getting caught shipping AIDS infected Factor VIII to Africa. These drug companies are part of a EUGENICS operation. They working with some top elites want to KILL YOU and your families! They want to get the world population down to 500 million or less. Heck go read the Georgia Guide Stones to see that.

      --
      The Truth is a Virus!!!
    8. Re:This drug really screws up female fertility by JamesP · · Score: 1

      No, it's not that.

      It causes damages to the process of male fetus formation. Because it blocks DHT (derived from testosterone) and that works in the formation of male characteristics.

      If it's a girl in the womb, no problem. But of course you never know, and by the time you know it's too late.

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    9. Re:This drug really screws up female fertility by gordguide · · Score: 1

      Except that Gardisil is KILLING girls that take it. In fact Australia BANNED the drug after it killed more than 30 girls in a short period of time. Kind of like Bayer getting caught shipping AIDS infected Factor VIII to Africa. These drug companies are part of a EUGENICS operation. They working with some top elites want to KILL YOU and your families! They want to get the world population down to 500 million or less. Heck go read the Georgia Guide Stones to see that.

      Australia did not ban Gardisil, it is still available for voluntary vaccination, and the Australian health authorities have no known deaths linked to Gardisil in Australia.

      http://www.tga.gov.au/alerts/medicines/gardasil.htm

      The rest of your post ... well, Gardicil would have to be just a bit more toxic than even you suggest to have a hope. Either the conspirators are laughably inept, or there's no conspiracy. The /. reader is free to decide.

      Reports of deal associated with Gardicil have two things in common; one, no link to the vaccine could be found in forensic investigation, and two, the causal relationship is simply one of sequence; this girl dies of unknown causes, no link to Gardicil can be found, but she had been vaccinated at some point earlier in her life. The link to hot dogs causing the death is equally strong, equally unproven, equally unhelpful, and equally attractive to paranoid killer hot-dog conspiracists.

    10. Re:This drug really screws up female fertility by darrenm · · Score: 1

      I think Propecia was originally going to be used to treat prostate enlargement - by reducing the level of androgens in men's systems. And they did notice the hair growth was a side effect of that treatment. Which made it better than the other hair "growth" treatments out there since, for the most part, they slow or stop the hair loss, but do fairly poorly at replacing hair where it has stopped growing.

      I think this article has two important points - IF Merck knew that Propecia could cause *permanent* impotence and IF covered it up, then this is a big deal. A lot of people would guess if you were messing with male hormones that something like this could happen.

      But I never expected that impotence would be permanent if you went off of the drug for say a month or two.

    11. Re:This drug really screws up female fertility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or in English:

      It had nothing to do with the woman, but if she was pregnant it stood a good chance of pushing out a Hermaphrodite.

      And the Christians really, really hate it when God gives them a Man-Woman since it totally fucks up all their ideas about marriage and gender roles.

  6. balls takes a falls by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A drug with anti-androgenic properties causes sexual dysfunction in men -- what a surprise!

  7. Lesser of 2 hairy heads by get_your_guns · · Score: 1

    I would gladly swap the hair on one head to the other head, too bad no pill for that.

  8. hmmm. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    the moral is, don't mess with your health if you can avoid it. we just don't know enough yet.....

    1. Re:hmmm. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      we just don't know enough yet.....

      Oh, they know. It's just not profitable to let us know.

  9. Not surprised by BlueParrot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm transsexual and take testosterone blockers in order to help feminise my body, and changes in sex drive were quite noticeable. Propecia's active substance, finasteride, is essentially a testosterone blocker ( thou admittedly a weaker one than what I am taking ) so I'm not at all surprised it can have such side effects.

    1. Re:Not surprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      LOL trannys are worse than gays.

      LOL anonymous trolls are worse than trannys and queers.

    2. Re:Not surprised by Gaygirlie · · Score: 2

      LOL trannys are worse than gays.

      All you have to contribute is ignorance?

      I read quite a comprehensive study last year about the topic of transsexuality, I don't remember if it was here or some other site, but there were several brain surgeons who studied the brains of transsexual people. All of them noted that there were several differences in the brain that didn't match the physical gender they were supposed to belong to, and in fact did resemble more the brains of the opposite gender. The conclusion in the study was that transsexuality is indeed atleast partly a physical phenomenon and thus there is nothing that can be done about it and it isn't somehow the transsexual person's own fault.

      It was quite an interesting read and somewhat eye-opening. And you definitely need some of the latter.

    3. Re:Not surprised by Jarik_Tentsu · · Score: 1

      I'm kinda amazed at this. I thought Slashdot wouldn't have so many trolls and intolerant people.

      Then again, it's probably all the same guy spamming shit out in an attempt to make himself feel important. Anonymously of course.

    4. Re:Not surprised by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

      you freakshows should just learn to accept who and what you are

      So then why can't you?

    5. Re:Not surprised by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2

      you freakshows should just learn to accept who and what you are,

      Yeah, and all of you people born with other birth defects should just accept it and stop grossing us out by trying to live a normal life in public.

      instead of helping to normalize a hatred of everything hetero-male in society.

      Wah, wah, wah. Poor little man can't handle a little loss of unwarranted male privilege. Grow some balls you pussy. Whiners like you do 100x more to "normalize hatred of everything hetero-male" than anyone else, male, female or trans.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    6. Re:Not surprised by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 1

      While I agree with your sig wholeheartedly, enforcing it by arguing with anonymous sexist troll asshats on /. might not be the best use of your resources. It's a losing battle. The idiot density on this site is scary sometimes.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    7. Re:Not surprised by Synn · · Score: 2

      It's not a "testosterone blocker", it blocks some of the conversion of testosterone to DHT.

      You end up with more testosterone, but less DHT. I'm sure that can have effects, but it's going to vary wildly from person to person.

    8. Re:Not surprised by UnexplodedNT · · Score: 0

      Actually, I'd imagine propecia likely *increases* testosterone. It inhibits type II 5-alpha reductase, which converts testosterone in to the more androgenic dihydro-testosterone. Less testosterone being converted = more testosterone floating around.

    9. Re:Not surprised by amper · · Score: 2

      Yes, but it's DHT that's primarily responsible for the androgenic effects in your body. Blocking the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme which causes testosterone to be converted to dihydrotestosterone *does* leave more free testosterone in the body, but it get shunted to another metabolic pathway due to lack of 5-alpha-reductase, and is metabolized into estradiol, which is the primary estrogen in post-pubescent and pre-menopausal females.

      Small wonder that long term usage of finasteride might cause permanent sterility and/or erectile dysfunction. Less androgens and more estrogens in the body eventually leads to exactly that.

      Anyone who knows anything about transsexual transition-related hormone replacement therapy known this, but unfortunately, as very few studies have actually been undertaken regarding the administration of the drugs generally used for trans HRT specifically for that purpose, the information is pretty much only looked at by those of us who need to know it.

      Basically, nobody's "allowed" to talk about this, because none of these drugs have ever been approved by the FDA for transition-related therapy. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the angle the defendants use to counter the lawsuit, and if that helps open up the channels for better research into trans healthcare needs.

    10. Re:Not surprised by amper · · Score: 1

      Testosterone is far less potent than its DHT metabolite. Inhibition of 5-alpha reductase causes testosterone to be metabolized through other pathways into estradiol.

  10. Jeeze by seifried · · Score: 2

    With all the side effects these newer drugs seem to have (rushed warning at the end of the commercials, full page ads with a full page warning on the opposite side) and their cost and dubious effectiveness I really have to wonder how sane people are.

    1. Re:Jeeze by UBfusion · · Score: 1

      It's even worse: when my dad's health was deteriorating due to multiple heart/circulation/obesity problems, he had to take about 20 pills per day. Most of them were used to prevent the side effects of the main active ingredients. Sometimes you will see in the same pill both the active ingredient targeting the problem together with its side-effect inhibitor. It's a whack-a-mole situation.

      However, risking your health to get some more hair on your scalp is totally insane. People may be stupid, but pharma companies are criminals to exploit their stupidity.

    2. Re:Jeeze by xnpu · · Score: 1

      More scary warnings sell better. Cigarette companies figure that out a while ago, so has big pharma.

  11. Surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I remember the tv ads for this "drug." It was one of the first pharm commercials to give a long, long list of side effects and dire warnings.

    Bald works for some guys, definitely not for others. Luck of the draw; not everybody is Patrick Stewart or even Jason Alexander. It's weird, but some head shapes / baldness patterns seem to speak to us at some primitive level, and even though they can seem *very* similar, some say "do not mate" and others say "yes mate." Of course there are similar observations one can make on a broad spectrum of individual features. (Why does "a big butt" work on "Jennifer Lopez", but on your mom it's a "fat ass"?)

    1. Re:Surprised? by sjames · · Score: 1

      If your baldness pattern is unappealing, shave the rest off.

  12. News for Nerds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How is impotence relevant to the Slashdot demographic?

    1. Re:News for Nerds? by Aeternitas827 · · Score: 1

      Impotence, not getting laid...it's the same thing to the human race.

      --
      I don't post AC. I like my -1, Flamebaits. Trump/Sheen 2012 on the Batshit Insane ticket!
    2. Re:News for Nerds? by martin-boundary · · Score: 2

      How is impotence relevant to the Slashdot demographic?

      Keyboarding, man!

      Impotent WoW players have twice the keyboarding speed as regular WoW players. That's just unfair!

  13. Thought they knew that years ago by billstewart · · Score: 1

    If it wasn't Propecia, maybe it was a different anti-baldness pill, but I remember a coworker commenting about it back in the late 90s. I don't remember whether he decided to take the pill or not, though.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    1. Re:Thought they knew that years ago by TheLink · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There's a similar problem with women's birth control pills:
      http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/35663.php

      Messing with hormones could also alter the sort of people you find attractive:
      http://www.livescience.com/2781-pill-women-pick-bad-mates.html

      --
    2. Re:Thought they knew that years ago by cyn1c77 · · Score: 1

      If it wasn't Propecia, maybe it was a different anti-baldness pill, but I remember a coworker commenting about it back in the ?late 90s?. I don't remember whether he decided to take the pill or not, though.

      Your coworker was probably commenting on the possibility of temporary impotence while taking the medication. That can be a common side effect with medication and especially when a person is on multiple medications at once.

      Permanent impotence after you stop taking the medication is a big difference.

      It's somewhat ironic that you can get that result from a lifestyle drug designed only to fill out your hair and highlights why medication should not be taken unless absolutely necessary. (And it sucks for the men taking it for enlarged prostate.)

    3. Re:Thought they knew that years ago by clang_jangle · · Score: 1

      They need Viagrogaine -- gives you plenty of hair and what you need down there! What're you waiting for, loser?

      --
      Caveat Utilitor
    4. Re:Thought they knew that years ago by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 5, Funny

      Unfortunately it only grows pubic hair. Would have been a hit in the 70s, but these days...

      --
      This space available.
    5. Re:Thought they knew that years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You neglect to take into account the possibility that some men care about losing their hair than about being impotent. I probably do, for example.

    6. Re:Thought they knew that years ago by bickerdyke · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of "Don't mess with the Zohan"... somehow.....

      --
      bickerdyke
    7. Re:Thought they knew that years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It also makes your hair stand up.

    8. Re:Thought they knew that years ago by tomhudson · · Score: 1

      It also makes your hair stand up.

      Don King, is that you?

    9. Re:Thought they knew that years ago by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      You neglect to take into account the possibility that some men care [more] about losing their hair than about being impotent.

      ...While other men (such as myself) have been shaving their heads for years for a variety of reasons, and might welcome a pharmaceutical alternative. I (and my wife) would care more about my being able to maintain a suitable woodie than maintaining a redundant growth of keratin over my cranium.

    10. Re:Thought they knew that years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Here are some more men who oughta be strapped to a gurney and castrated with fishing knives. White guys who shave their heads completely bald. They're so ashamed they lost eleven hairs, they try to turn it to some kind of a masculine statement. I say hey, you goofy-lookin' baldy-headed fuck! Looks good on black guys, on you it's ugly, repulsive and disgusting. You wanna be bald? Do what I did - wait awhile. In the meantime there's no excuse for runnin' around lookin' like a freshly circumcised dick. "

      George Carlin.

  14. Thought they knew that years ago by billstewart · · Score: 1

    If it wasn't Propecia, maybe it was a different anti-baldness pill, but I remember a coworker commenting about it back in the ?late 90s?. I don't remember whether he decided to take the pill or not, though.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  15. Not useful. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can make a study to show anything you want, and it works both ways - pharmaceutical companies do it and so do independent researchers, intentionally or unintentionally. Would have to know details on the study, how well it was randomized, blinded, size of study, all kinds of shit.

    Not that it's surprising - something that fucks with your hormones dampens sex drive, news at 11. I don't know why I as a juror would give some idiot taking hormone affecting drugs to keep his hair money because his dick went limp.

  16. Call the CEO immediately! by countertrolling · · Score: 3, Funny

    Put him in charge of the FDA

    --
    For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
    1. Re:Call the CEO immediately! by Seumas · · Score: 1

      Why not? That's how the whole Sacchrine/Nutrasweet thing finally reached shelves.

      Anyway, the Merck CEO also is on the board of Exxon, a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and was the lead attorney for Merck
        a few years ago during all the lawsuits over its Vioxx drug (which was associated with increased heart attack and stroke risks).

  17. Not interested in anything to cure baldness by jamesh · · Score: 1

    I had shoulder length hair as a teenager, then around my mid 20's I noticed it had thinned out a bit on top, and the long hair thing was starting to look a bit sad, so I cut it all off and now sport a #1 clipper cut. I know a bit about the sorts of hormone interaction that causes baldness and it seems kind of obvious that unless you can find something that specifically affects the hair folicle's(sp?) sensitivity to those hormones, the only other way is to tinker with the hormones themselves, and i'm not having any of that.

    My other reason for cutting it all off was that I have exceptionally oily skin and it's much easier to get all the sebaceous cysts cut out with short hair, and I get a bunch of cool scars :)

    1. Re:Not interested in anything to cure baldness by Jafafa+Hots · · Score: 5, Funny

      My other reason for cutting it all off was that I have exceptionally oily skin and it's much easier to get all the sebaceous cysts cut out with short hair, and I get a bunch of cool scars :)

      FINALLY! I thought a thread related to sexual function was bound to have some sexy anecdotes, but it took until this to find one.

      --
      This space available.
  18. I've actually been looking for a drug like this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I need something that will remove my libido. I'm tired of suffering and my wife is fucking useless.

  19. Sales go up! by billsayswow · · Score: 1

    A full head of hair and no fear of unwanted impregnations? This is the perfect pill for a mid-life crisis! Now if only "owning a muscle car" could be a common side effect.

  20. So THAT'S where my sperm went! by atari2600a · · Score: 1

    I don't exactly find this surprising; A crappy pill that likely targets Didydrotestosterone causing damage to organs producing testosterone? You'd think they would have thought to take sperm samples or check the blood for the stuff or something...

  21. This does not surprise by enormouspenis · · Score: 1

    me a bit. When I was in medical school on the wards the vioxx drug rep would bring us food and put on the most outrageous bullshit presentations. The data was all skewed, the studies were flawed and we knew the damn drug was a killer. We ate their food and took their "studies" apart. Heck, my pharm D professor told us in basic science classes never to prescribe it.

    --
    "I didn't spend six years in Evil Medical School to be called 'Mr.Evil,' thank you very much!"
  22. Prozac affects some people too by State+your+name · · Score: 1

    I have a friend who was prescribed Prozac five years ago and was told by the psychiatrist that he may experience temporary loss of libido. My friend took the medication for a couple of months and decided that the feeling of apathy that the drug produces was worse than his depression and stopped the course. After a few weeks my friends libido had not returned to normal and my friend put this down to the depression. This condition persisted and my friend started reading on the internet that other people had experienced similar problems. My friend went through an agonising period deciding whether to go to the press with this information, providing his full name. The hurdle faced by anyone in this position is that people tend not to take users of anti-depressants seriously. It is easy to put someone who has taken mind altering drugs down as a nutter. The psychiatrist denied any knowledge of similar cases and it looks as if this affects a small percentage of users. My friend has improved slightly. This may be due to ageing, but I would urge anyone who does not really need to take selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors to stay away.

    --
    who are you when you're not yourself?
  23. There may be potential... by dalmor · · Score: 1

    Seriously, I am not trolling. Nor do I want to get in any side arguments(the government will force people to take this yadda yadda...).

    But if they could get this working as a voluntary drug for the real problem sex offenders who can't control themselves(i.e. like repeated child molesters), I think it could have benefits. Having an option for those that do want to stop but can't would be a good thing.

    1. Re:There may be potential... by Stormwatch · · Score: 1
  24. Good faith by Johnny+Mnemonic · · Score: 2

    I think it's pretty unreasonable to expect that a pharma be able to test for all possible side affects of a given medication. Some of them don't seem to have side affects related to their main effect, so the scope of the test to look for all possible effects would have to be so broad it'd result in subject fatigue.

    However, I present that in the hypothetical context of pharma operating in good faith. That is, I wouldn't want to hold up a potentially life saving drug just cause I had to test for every possible side effect, including very subjective ones.

    In the current state, pharma isn't acting in good faith. They aggressively push drugs onto patients and doctors that don't really need them, their drugs may not work as claimed, and they don't seem to be acting out of medical principle so much as a "throw it against the wall" method of benefit discovery.

    So therefore, I don't believe they should have the benefit of operating in good faith, and should be held accountable for everything that they do. If they want to have the license to operate in a free market, they should have to accept the liability of their aggressive risk taking too. If they weren't so aggressive in taking risk, I'd cut them more slack for the rare screwup. But I don't think they deserve that latitude any more.

    --

    --
    $tar -xvf .sig.tar
    1. Re:Good faith by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they want to have the license to operate in a free market, they ...

      ... just buy it. The pharma industry is a mire of corruption and fraud.

      At the prices they are demanding for their products, I damn well expect them not to have these serious, permanent side-effects.

    2. Re:Good faith by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.palgrave-journals.com/biosoc/journal/v6/n1/pdf/biosoc201040a.pdf

      paywalled, but even the abstract is interesting and worth reading if you can access the full article.

      It is widely claimed that research to discover and develop new pharmaceuticals entails high costs and high risks. High research and development (R&D) costs influence many decisions and policy discussions about how to reduce global health disparities, how much companies can afford to discount prices for lower- and middle-income countries, and how to design innovative incentives to advance research on diseases of the poor. High estimated costs also affect strategies for getting new medicines to the world's poor, such as the advanced market commitment, which built high estimates into its inflated size and prices. This article takes apart the most detailed and authoritative study of R&D costs in order to show how high estimates have been constructed by industry-supported economists, and to show how much lower actual costs may be. Besides serving as an object lesson in the construction of ‘facts’, this analysis provides reason to believe that R&D costs need not be such an insuperable obstacle to the development of better medicines. The deeper problem is that current incentives reward companies to develop mainly new medicines of little advantage and compete for market share at high prices, rather than to develop clinically superior medicines with public funding so that prices could be much lower and risks to companies lower as well.>

    3. Re:Good faith by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      I don't like the advertising of major drugs but it does serve a purpose in helping educate those with issues even if it snags all the hypochondriacs as well. But side effects exist for every drug. Even with the major medical studies required to get a drug approved it's not until you release a drug into the full population of people that some side effects will be discovered. That's a fact and it's the reason the FDA requires several dozen post approval studies of the general population.

      But I do have a serious issue with people not understanding that every single drug you take will have side effects. It's a fact that every drug has side effects. Every single drug is nothing more than a poison that has a certain effect that's desired and several dozen that aren't. There isn't some magical pill out there that will make all your problems go away without side effects. It's a failure of our education system that people actually believe this is possible. It's a failure of our medical system that this isn't explained to those that don't understand.

      Drug makers should be exempt from any lawsuit targeting a drug that's being used per the FDA approval requirements. On the flip side, any drug maker that promotes (even in private to doctors) a drug for off label use they should be liable to lawsuits from every affected party. We have to stop all this bullshit. If the FDA approved it, and the warning labels are per FDA guidelines the patient is the responsible party, not the drug maker and not the doctors. As an individual you are responsible for every chemical you put in your body. The only way you can claim liability to a secondary party is if the drug is being administered without your consent.

  25. *sigh* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, it's kind of nothing like that.

    DHT is pretty much *the* cause of baldness. Finasteride bitchslaps DHT like Stallman bitchslaps closed source software.

    Give you a guess as to what the T in DHT stands for. Yes, that's right, testosterone.

    Finasteride does have a dual purpose - dealing with baldness, and dealing with prostate issues. Both of which are, in fact, exacerbated by DHT. Because it's dealing with sexual hormones and their biproducts, yes - there is indeed a risk of sexual side effects. Personally, I find that this being a shock to anyone to be pointedly absurd. Admittedly, I'm rather biased, having grown up in a medically inclined family. Call me crazy, but I tend to, yanno, look up what the hell pills I take actually do and what they can potentially affect.

    Regardless of whether or not the symptoms list on the drug (which did include sexual side effects) was clear enough or not - well, sorry, there is at least no such nonsense as some 'big evil pharma switcheroo' going on.

    1. Re:*sigh* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right - milking as much as you can out of a drug in whatever way you can weasel it into addressing as many "problems" as possible is absolutely nothing at all like milking as much as you can out of a drug in whatever way you can weasel it into addressing as many "problems" as possible.

    2. Re:*sigh* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DHT is just one of the contributing factors. There are many causes of baldness and DHT plays important role in some of them - but it's not the only cause. For androgenic alopecia there are other factors such as environmental pollution, metabolic syndrome, tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-alpha, thyroid problems, weak heart, extensive destructive stress, C-reactive protein, low SHBG, demodex folliculorum infection, out of order immunity response (thymus), exposure to radiation, lack of aerobic exercise, low amount of blood serum L-carnitine, disrupted NOX pathways (arginine, miNOXidil), low levels of superoxide dismutase and glutathione antioxidants, seborrheic dermatitis, or perhaps even genetically hardcoded amount of follicle cycles.

      You want to have free testosterone for both improving your (spatial) brain function and having your hair OK - once FT gets converted to DHT by 5-alpha reductase enzyme (5-AR) you don't see any benefits from having testosterone, not even in sexual function. DHT is a contributing factor to both hair loss and prostate cancer. Having low FT and high DHT is the prevailing condition in old men, hence it is often called "old men" profile.

      As for treatments, Propecia targets 5-AR - by impairing your body's ability to produce 5-AR - FT gets converted to DHT slower. However, hair follicles are able to convert FT to DHT too. Then there is an immunity system attack on these follicles causing common scalp redness and nobody understands why.

      Minoxidil (Rogaine) targets disrupted NOx pathways in scalp, alcohol inside however damages scalp. Curcumin and L-Carnitine lower TNF-alpha and C-reactive protein. Thymus extracts could possibly benefit lower immunity response. Low-Level Laser Therapy can help heal microscopic wounds, increase superoxide dismutase release and perhaps also getting rid of demodex folliculorum infection. Vitamin E and selenium help getting seborrheic dermatitis in check (with the help of ketacenazole - Nizoral, sulphur shampoos, apple cider vinegar, onion juice or apple procyanidins). Refined sugar (e.g. sugar without fibre as in fruits and vegetables) exaggerates metabolic syndrome present often in balding men. Sexual abstinence helps to lower chemical stress levels.

      So, overall, there are many components and relations between them are to a large extent unknown. Some of the aforementioned methods would work for somebody, but would cause nothing to someone else. All of them have sideeffects and one should decide if their danger is worth having a head full of hair.

  26. Same here by Myria · · Score: 2

    I'm transsexual and take testosterone blockers in order to help feminise my body, and changes in sex drive were quite noticeable. Propecia's active substance, finasteride, is essentially a testosterone blocker ( thou admittedly a weaker one than what I am taking ) so I'm not at all surprised it can have such side effects.

    Same, though I'm on both finasteride and spironolactone. This is very much a desirable side effect for us. =)

    I just hope that this doesn't result in a massive recall and them stopping making it. Finasteride in higher doses is used as part of a prostate cancer treatment regimen for analogous reasons to this "side effect", so hopefully the drug won't go away completely.

    --
    "Screw Sun, cross-platform will never work. Let's move on and steal the Java language." - Visual J++ Product Manager
    1. Re:Same here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Finasteride in higher doses is used as part of a prostate cancer treatment regimen for analogous reasons to this "side effect", so hopefully the drug won't go away completely.

      It's actually much cheaper than Propecia too. I got a doc to write me a prescription for finastride and I used a pill cutter to take a quarter pill a day. It was 10x cheaper per mg than Propecia.

      More relevant to this discusion - when the prescription ran out (took two years since 180 pills lasted for 720 days) I decided not to renew and for the first two weeks I had a raging hard-on like I was a teenager again and then my hair started to fall back out. If I could get the hard-on effect by qutting after just a week or two on the drug, I'd probably go for it. As for the hair? I just wear a hat now.

    2. Re:Same here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have to say "no offense", you obviously already know what you're about to say is offensive, so why bother going ahead and saying it.

    3. Re:Same here by Jarik_Tentsu · · Score: 1

      Because it's the internet obviously. And we're the 4chan generation. Nothing is sacred and people have got to stop being sensitive if it's obviously meant in good fun and humor. I imagine he was just making it clear that his purpose was one of pure humor.

    4. Re:Same here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, he was making fun of the men on slashdot, not the transexuals. I know two in real life and neither of them would be offended by that joke.

    5. Re:Same here by dbIII · · Score: 1

      If they don’t come, we’ll make them ourselves!

      Hey! That was the plot of Jurassic Park!

    6. Re:Same here by dbIII · · Score: 1

      You know two men on slashdot in real life?

    7. Re:Same here by snowgirl · · Score: 1

      It's actually much cheaper than Propecia too. I got a doc to write me a prescription for finastride and I used a pill cutter to take a quarter pill a day. It was 10x cheaper per mg than Propecia.

      The obvious statement here is, "generics are cheaper than brand name pills"... Propecia is Finastride...

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
    8. Re:Same here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right. And neither of them would be offended by that joke.

  27. Yay! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems to me this drug is the perfect punishment for rapists.

  28. Acupuncture for impotence? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a friend who uses acupuncture points to help men get their woodies back. ...

    Sure. I'll just wait for the peer-reviewed study, thanks. Maybe you should contact the plaintiffs, though. I bet they'd try anything.

  29. woah-oah-oh. by WizardMarnok · · Score: 0

    You've lost that lovin' feeling, Whoa that lovin' feeling, You've lost that lovin' feeling, Now it's gone...gone...gone...wooah-oah-ooh

  30. oh yeah, completely forgot about the spammers by nido · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the comment. My friend is trying to figure out how to market her information. Like the other guy said, perhaps we should look up the plaintiffs in these lawsuits and send some letters.

    --
    Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly.
    www.teslabox.com
  31. Frankly this lawsuit shit.. by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Really needs to DIAF. I mean sure, if the drug company lies? Bust their asses, shut them down. but too many drugs, drugs that can save lives and make folks lives better, are being taken off the market not by lies but by douches that don't follow directions and that is total bullshit! If my doc explains the pros and cons of a drug and I agree to take it it should be between my doc and myself not some ambulance chasing scumbag!

    I had this one personally bite me in the ass in the 80s. There was a drug called Tegison which was like a miracle cure for the form of psoriatic arthritis that left me crippled after a traumatic bike wreck triggered the recessive gene and caused my immune system to go haywire. No side effects, it was like heaven.

    So what happened? Simple before they would even give you the drug you had to watch 30 minutes worth of films and sign a ton of agreements agreeing not to have children because it would cause flipper babies, so a couple of stupid whores watched the films, signed the papers and promptly got knocked up and then sued the company right out of existence by popping out a couple of mutants.

    It didn't matter what they saw or signed, all it took was some scumbag lawyer showing pics of horribly fucked up kids (even though it was the bitch's fault and she should have been thrown in jail for doing that to a kid) and he got them an assload of money. Next thing you know OTHER women are showing up wanting a check (which means I have no doubt they purposely got preg on the drug to cash in) and the company simply quit making it rather than risk more suits. My pharmacist was nice enough to buy every single box he could possibly find when he heard, even going so far as to contact drug suppliers in South America, but eventually it dried up and it was nearly 6 years before they found anything else that would work.

    That is 6 YEARS of pain I wouldn't have had to go through if those bitches and their leech wouldn't have been able to pull that shit (may they die of cancer) so it is time for some REAL reforms! I propose that there be an ironclad "no suing, do not pass go, GTFO" contract that any doctor be allowed to use with a drug, so bullshit lawsuits like the one that hurt me end for good. There were people willing to take the risk for what Vioxx did for them too, now they get to suffer thanks to a leech.

    Whether a drug is worth the risk for the benefits should be up to the PATIENT, not some damned ambulance chaser!

    --
    ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    1. Re:Frankly this lawsuit shit.. by zaxios · · Score: 5, Informative

      Whether a drug is worth the risk for the benefits should be up to the PATIENT, not some damned ambulance chaser!

      Right, and in this case the patients weren't warned of the risk of irreversible impotence, only reversible impotence that was supposed to go away after they stopped taking the drug. They weren't in any position to weigh up the real risks and benefits, and have every right to sue the pharmaceutical company for that.

    2. Re:Frankly this lawsuit shit.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      When it costs a company nothing to push a liability waiver under your nose before rendering services, pretty soon everyone wants a blank check before they'll sell you groceries. If everyone wants a blank check, the blank check loses it's meaning.

      Meanwhile, it costs politicians and marketers nothing to sell you on a feeling of safety.

      The two combine to form a society of people emotionally incapable of making & keeping contracts. They sign the liability waivers and they probably mean it the first 100 times, but after that, they start to get used to there being no consequences or risks and don't take them seriously. Then, when something bad happens, they sue because they feel like the risk or danger wasn't emphasized strongly enough. They feel deceived.

    3. Re:Frankly this lawsuit shit.. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Whether a drug is worth the risk for the benefits should be up to the PATIENT, not some damned ambulance chaser!

      +1

      100% agreed.

    4. Re:Frankly this lawsuit shit.. by mysidia · · Score: 0

      Right, and in this case the patients weren't warned of the risk of irreversible impotence, only reversible impotence that was supposed to go away after they stopped taking the drug. They weren't in any position to weigh up the real risks and benefits, and have every right to sue the pharmaceutical company for that.

      No, they don't have every right to sue the pharma company. Unless they can prove also that the pharmaceutical company knew about the problem and intentionally hid the information.

      If you read the description label and it lists impotence as a side effect, temporary or otherwise, you don't take that drug, unless you are happy to be permanently impotent.

      You don't take a drug, unless you read all the side effects and are willing to accept the risk you may temporarily or permanently have one or more of those side effects; even if the effect in the study was believed to be temporary.

      All drugs have both known risks and unknown risks. Risks that could not be fully discovered by the studies involved in FDA approval.

      You're still better off than going out in nature and ingesting random plant parts, or going to a medicine man and getting some random concoction as a cure, that will invariably contain something such as Peryote

    5. Re:Frankly this lawsuit shit.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's kill all lawyers!

    6. Re:Frankly this lawsuit shit.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I take finasteride (Propecia in american) and it was advertised to me as a loss of libido, the desire, not impotence; the ability. I noticed it hugely at first but recently it's returning while I'm taking the same amount. 5-HTP increasing serotonin might be the culprit. Regardless, the libido-loss is marketed as temporary. Why on earth would one presume that if something is labelled as temporary that they should be prepared for permanence?! I'd be upset if codeine phosphate induced permanent drowsiness in me or zolpidem put me in a permanent coma. You maniac haha.

    7. Re:Frankly this lawsuit shit.. by zaxios · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, they don't have every right to sue the pharma company. Unless they can prove also that the pharmaceutical company knew about the problem and intentionally hid the information.

      Well, not quite. It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, but at least in my country I believe the standard is a negligent, not intentional, failure to disclose the risk.* So, it's only necessary to show that the pharmaceutical company should have known, not that they did. I would be surprised if that is not the case here. Merck has reportedly been tipped off numerous times by patients and doctors over the past 10 years and has not acted. Moreover, the drug has shipped in Europe with a persistent sexual side effects warning since 2008 due to pressure from regulators there. How ignorant could Merck be then? Not to mention Merck's history: they essentially covered up the side effects of Vioxx only a few years ago.

      I should add that I fully agree that a drug company that quite innocently puts a drug on the market having taken all prudent measures to ensure all relevant risks are disclosed should not be held responsible for issues that weren't foreseeable at the time. But this situation is unlikely to be one of those times.

      If you read the description label and it lists impotence as a side effect, temporary or otherwise, you don't take that drug, unless you are happy to be permanently impotent.

      Sorry, but how on earth does that make any sense? Temporary impotence which goes away as soon as you stop taking the drug is not even remotely similar to losing sexual function for the rest of your life. I am inclined to think the men involved in this debacle agree.

      *There is also a statutory cause of action under consumer protection legislation that sets an even lower standard for the plaintiff, but I can't recall the elements off the top of my head.

    8. Re:Frankly this lawsuit shit.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      if you read the label is says it doesn't always go away. they were warned

    9. Re:Frankly this lawsuit shit.. by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Why would you assume that the drug caused irreversible impotence? It's a drug; it gets excreted. It's far more likely that they took the drug from age 40 to age 55, then stopped, and all of a sudden noticed that their erections wouldn't come back.

    10. Re:Frankly this lawsuit shit.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Propecia is cosmetic drug for baldness. It does not treat or cure any real disease. Like boxers & plastic surgery patients, these men took a medically unnecessary risk. They should not be allowed to sue.

    11. Re:Frankly this lawsuit shit.. by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Merck has reportedly been tipped off numerous times by patients and doctors over the past 10 years and has not acted. Moreover, the drug has shipped in Europe with a persistent sexual side effects warning since 2008 due to pressure from regulators there.

      Well a "tip" is not a study and persistent != permanent. Patients can report things all the time.... just because they became impotent does not mean Merck's drug likely caused or is suspected of causing the impotence. Hair loss is expected to be strongly correlated with impotence as it is, because hair loss tends to come with age, and impotence tends to come with age.

      Merck could probably ignore those 'tips' with no negligence on their part.

      And I sure hope the researchers who conducted this study controlled for age, otherwise.... it's possible Merck might ultimately be able to scientifically show the Boston Researchers were wrong.

      Hint: Just because one study says something, doesn't mean that thing is true. Correlating Merck's drug to permanent erectile dysfunction in one study in no way proves that Merck's drug was the cause.

    12. Re:Frankly this lawsuit shit.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I here you loud and clear... It's the trial lawyers / leeches that destroy our society. They produce nothing and at the expense of hard working bright people they have created a self serving legal system that they can benifit from other peoples success and they do it in the name of "helping the little guy" the minute you remove the lottory ticket rewards they will disappear and craw back into their holes. We need to remove the self serving politicians that prevent reform.

  32. Impotence? Try any antidepressent. by jimmydevice · · Score: 1

    Most antidepressants will do that. It took me 4 hrs to empty my sack after taking that crap over a 3 month period.
    I had no sexual desire. This was medical, prostate health.,
    I stopped and finally got back my functionality, personality and reality. Don't take that shit! prosac, effexor and all the other SSRI crap will turn you into a pink cloud zombie.

    1. Re:Impotence? Try any antidepressent. by MimeticLie · · Score: 1

      Wellbutrin (generic: Bupropion) is a good alternative if you get those side effects. Between it and TMS my depression is under control for the first time in years, without the side effects of some of the other things I've tried.

    2. Re:Impotence? Try any antidepressent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anti-depressants don't make men irreversibly impotent.

      Anti-depressants help some people with depression.

    3. Re:Impotence? Try any antidepressent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but if the antidepressant is any good, it won't bother you...

  33. Read more carefully: 'irreversible' impotence by zaxios · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Propecia is an antiandrogen, and has always been known to cause sexual dysfunction while the user was on the drug. What's significant about these new studies is that they show that sexual dysfunction can persist AFTER you stop taking Propecia. That contradicts what Merck has always said - their product guidance warns of sexual side effects but expressly states that they always stop after ceasing the drug - and the advice that doctors give to patients considering taking Propecia. That's why there's a lawsuit - no one was ever warned that these sexual side effects might be permanent.

    In fact, it remains a mystery how the drug could have this effect: its half life is only a few days, and it really should be ceasing any effect within that time. At least one doctor (Dr Alan Jacobs, a neuroendocrinologist in NYC) is speculating that Propecia is inducing permanent changes to the expression of genes governing the androgen system. IANAD so I express no view on that.

    If you want to learn more about this issue, go to propeciahelp.com. There are people there who have been suffering from post-Propecia symptoms - not just sexual dysfunction, but other symptoms associated with low testosterone like cognitive impairment, fatigue, etc - for upwards of 10 years after stopping Propecia. If that's not worth a big payout from a pharma company that expressly told that that all side effects would cease after taking the medication, I'm not sure what is.

    1. Re:Read more carefully: 'irreversible' impotence by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      In fact, it remains a mystery how the drug could have this effect: its half life is only a few days, and it really should be ceasing any effect within that time. At least one doctor (Dr Alan Jacobs, a neuroendocrinologist in NYC) is speculating that Propecia is inducing permanent changes to the expression of genes governing the androgen system. IANAD so I express no view on that.

      Maybe sex is like other sorts of exercise. If you stop, it can be difficult to start again. Or your partner loses interest and its difficult to get her started again.

    2. Re:Read more carefully: 'irreversible' impotence by JamesP · · Score: 0

      I'm losing mod points here to say something

      What utterly amazes me is how people find and overblow the side-effects of any drug.

      Next it's going to be aspirin, or ibuprofen. Funny how nobody goes at Acetaminophen, where you can kill yourself using it.

      Back to Propecia, it's NOT an antiandrogen!! It actually increases your testosterone, because it blocks it converting to DHT (a hormone that's basic useless for you ,except for making your hair fall and enhance prostate cancer, after you left the womb)

      The real question is, did these people had zero fertility problems before using Propecia?!

      Besides, some people would very much like have their fertility gone using medicinal means.

      Note: I'm a Propecia user. Side effects: ZILCH, NOPE, NONE, NADA Intended effects: great

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    3. Re:Read more carefully: 'irreversible' impotence by maxume · · Score: 1

      I've seen people argue that acetaminophen should be taken off the market.

      Usually the people doing so haven't considered that it has advantages in certain situations (children, people prone to bleeding).

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    4. Re:Read more carefully: 'irreversible' impotence by Synn · · Score: 1

      Finistride has been in use for over 20 years and there still hasn't been any proof that it really causes these issues long term. The science is still really against it.

      Frankly impotence, low sexual desire, fatigue, can all have psychological causes. I think it'd be interesting to give people a placebo, tell them it may cause sexual dysfunction, then point them to a website www.sugarpillscausedmyED.com and see what the carnage was.

    5. Re:Read more carefully: 'irreversible' impotence by amper · · Score: 2

      Actually, DHT is far more potent an androgen than testosterone, and is the primary androgen responsible for masculinization. If you block the metabolism of testosterone into dihydrotestosterone, you have dramatically decreased the levels of androgens in your body, plus the testosterone gets metabolized through other enzymes into estradiol, the primary estrogen responsible for feminization.

    6. Re:Read more carefully: 'irreversible' impotence by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      Maybe sex is like other sorts of exercise. If you stop, it can be difficult to start again. Or your partner loses interest and its difficult to get her started again.

      Can't get her started ? I'll bring by my jumper cable and do it for you ! (*ba dum tsch*)

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    7. Re:Read more carefully: 'irreversible' impotence by JamesP · · Score: 1

      Yes, you're right, I read more about it after I posted, even though the main effects of DHT are in the baby formation inside the womb

      But it still has androgenic effects.

      Even though I wouldn't call blocking DHT "a dramatic decrease", according to Wikipedia 5% testosterone gets converted into DHT (and IIRC finasteride doesn't block it all, even though I couldn't find the percentage). And you'll still have testosterone (even after aromatizing)

      --
      how long until /. fixes commenting on Chrome?
    8. Re:Read more carefully: 'irreversible' impotence by gay358 · · Score: 1

      As far as I know, at least one of the studies didn't really prove that Propecia causes permanent sexual dysfunction as it was not rigorous enough. There should really be double blind trials instead of questionnaires which can contain all kinds of biases.

      It is well known fact that many men who have never used Propecia will get permanent sexual dysfunctions. If you haven't get good control croup if may be impossible to be certain whether the cause of permanent sexual dysfunctions is Propecia or something else.

      And it is worth to remember that most men don't experience even temporary sexual dysfunction while using Propecia. And even if Propecia causes to small number of men permanent sexual dysfunctions, it may be acceptable risk for many men. For example, Viagra can cause strokes, damage eyes, common painkillers used for headache kill large number of people each year etc.

  34. Only 3-4% of the subjects affected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It should be noted that only 3-4% of the subjects (compared to the placebo) are affected at all. This is known and communicated since a long time. Although, admittedly the side effects after canceling the drug may be worse. Which, as far as I know, has not been much communicated in the past. As someone taking the drug for years now, I never felt any side effects while regularly taking it. Reducing the dose, however, may significantly confuse your body chemistry. In a way, it is an "interesting", purely physical, but not psychological, form of addiction.

    Apart from that, these effects like loss of libido and depression are far more linked to the lifestyle, especially what I like to call the three columns of stability: a) regular sport, b) an orderly daily rhythm concerning sleep cycle, activity and eating as well as c) successfully performed projects be it job or hobby. The question with these studies is always how much do they account for changes concerning these columns in the probands lives?

  35. Informed Consent by ShakaUVM · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Really needs to DIAF. I mean sure, if the drug company lies? Bust their asses, shut them down. but too many drugs, drugs that can save lives and make folks lives better, are being taken off the market not by lies but by douches that don't follow directions and that is total bullshit! If my doc explains the pros and cons of a drug and I agree to take it it should be between my doc and myself not some ambulance chasing scumbag!

    Your story is an excellent case for the policy of informed consent. As long as everyone knows what the risks are, people should be free to take the drugs.

    Who cares if Vioxx increased your chance of a heart attack by a small amount? ("Doubling" the risk is much scarier than saying it raises your risk by 1% or whatever.) If the patient UNDERSTANDS the risk, and no better drugs exist, he should be able to take his Vioxx or whatever. It's called a black-label warning, and the FDA does it all the time. But nothing helps if the drug gets pulled off the market.

    I know about this, because my landlord at the time (an old Korean war vet) suffered excruciating pain from arthritis in his spine. He started on Vioxx and became a functional individual again. When they pulled it from the market, it was like literally chopping his legs off. Not one other painkiller really worked for him, except morphine. So he was put on morphine, and spent 17 hours a day sleeping. I asked him if he'd trade a 1% chance of a heart attack in exchange for getting his life back, and his response was something along the lines of "Yes, in a second. I spend all day sleeping now - I'd like to have my life back, even if it means a slight risk."

    Naderites love to claim that their lawsuits keep the evil big corporations in line, not thinking about the harm they cause to the little guys.

    Of course, after the whole Vioxx debacle played out, they found that all COX-blockers increase the risk of heart problems (due to shared receptors, IIRC, on the heart). But other companies just slapped a black-label warning on their Celebrex or whatever, and kept selling it.

    1. Re:Informed Consent by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem wasn't so much that Vioxx slightly increased one's risk of heart attacks - it was that Merck hid data, went on an insane advertising campaign calling it a 'super aspirin' and tried to sell it to everyone and their dog. We have much more dangerous medications that we use all of the time but are (supposedly) treated with more respect. We did throw the baby out with the bath on this one. But remember it wasn't the FDA that banned Vioxx - Merck pulled it from the market.

      In that mythical pony-and-unicorn world of Steve Jobs and our dreams, the FDA would have forced Merck to sell rights to the drug to someone else who could act in a more responsible fashion.

      And yes, Celebrex is just about as bad for cardiac risk and doesn't work as well. Newsflash: Drugs are dangerous.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Informed Consent by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>But remember it wasn't the FDA that banned Vioxx - Merck pulled it from the market.

      Right, that's what I said. And I'm hardly defending Merck here. They behaved irresponsibly, but pulling Vioxx from the market when they could have black-labelled their drug (as everyone else did) was also irresponsible.

      My wife was in pharmacy school while all that was going down. It was an interesting issue to study.

    3. Re:Informed Consent by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      A new patent law would help here, any drug that is pulled from the market(by FDA order or by the maker in response to legal action) due to malfeasance of the maker should lose patent protection instantly and permanently so generics companies can make the drug to meet the needs of the properly informed patients who do consent to the risks

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    4. Re:Informed Consent by fast+turtle · · Score: 2

      The only thing wrong with your idea is the FDA pulling a drug. When that happens there's damn good reason and that should be respected but in the case of a Company pulling a drug due to Legal Actions and such, then yea, kill their patents on that drug and allow the generics to begin making it even if it requires a Black Label warning.

      --
      Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
    5. Re:Informed Consent by TangoMargarine · · Score: 1

      found that all COX-blockers increase the risk of heart problems

      Not to put too fine a point on it, but I'd say that guy got COX-blocked pretty hard.

      --
      Unity? Screw that: XFCE. Slashdot Beta? Screw that: SoylentNews. Australis? Screw that: Pale Moon. UX developers DIAF
    6. Re:Informed Consent by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      Wanna know the best part of the Vioxx scandal? There were rumors that one of the generic makers was going to start producing Vioxx again when the patent expired. The very next day Merck started a bunch of FUD saying they would start selling Vioxx again, even went on all the major news programs talking about it. Did they? Nope. Did they keep the rumors up till the generic maker dropped their plans? Yep.

    7. Re:Informed Consent by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      >>Not to put too fine a point on it, but I'd say that guy got COX-blocked pretty hard.

      I'm rather proud of myself that I got all the UCSF pharmacy students I know to start calling them that.

      Everyone needs to do their part for academia.

    8. Re:Informed Consent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He did say "due to malfeasance" you know.

    9. Re:Informed Consent by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      if the FDA makes the drug outright illegal still void the patent so someone else can possibly rework the formula to make it safer

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  36. Easy cure for baldness by dbIII · · Score: 1

    Grow a beard and pull your head in!

  37. oblig. by sammy+baby · · Score: 1

    Okay, why is this story "news for nerds?"

    (rolls eyes upward to see own hairline)

    Oh. Nevermind.

    (sobs)

  38. Apparently in the US by mysidia · · Score: 2

    Every drug has to be a miracle cure, with no ill effects or risks (discovered or undiscovered)

    Or someone's going to get sued.

    Seems to me the deck's stacked against the drug companies... now...

    Is it worth it to continue work on cancer curing drugs, when you're just going to get sued over them -- because they're less than 100% effective, or because they make people look fat or reduce sexual performance and people hate looking fat and hate lower sexual performance?

    If the treatment of the drug is important to you, you will take it, in exchange for the risks (both known and unknown risks). If it's not you won't.

    In a sane country, the drug companies would be safe from being sued unless there was actual misconduct on their part that you could prove, such as falsifying results of their study, or telling a known lie to the FDA in approval process, or in their advertising -- for example, representing a product as FDA approved if it was not actually approved.

    1. Re:Apparently in the US by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      more like the drug companies lie about side effects, conceal reports of problems, and use full court press marketing to get doctors to prescribe shit patients don't really need and to get patients to ask their doctors for shit they don't need.

      should go back to banning advertisements for prescription drugs, and ban pharma reps from rewarding doctors who prescribe more, or offering other finiancial or non-financial incentives

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  39. There is an upside to all of this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who needs friends when you have a receding hairline?

  40. Looks like a meta-study by Rich0 · · Score: 1

    This wasn't a new clinical trial as far as I can tell, but it was mining past trials for data and applying them to new hypothesis. A recent xkcd showed some of the problems with this kind of argument. If the data didn't support permanent loss of sexual function, perhaps it would support heart attacks, cancer, blindness, or perhaps cures for any of the above.

    If you think this is a possible side-effect, then hypothesize that, conduct a large trial, and see what the results are.

    Sure, mining past data can generate ideas for new trials, but it is not a substitute for them. It is far too susceptible to finding patterns that aren't really there - especially with the amount of noise in a typical clinical trial dataset.

  41. Attn Baldilocks!!! by DMFNR · · Score: 0

    Although god has graced me with luscious golden locks, I do have a few friends in my age range (mid-20s) experiencing premature baldness and this is the number one tip they give to anyone who is experiencing the same. SHAVE YOUR HEAD, YOU'LL LOOK COOL. I don't get why people put so much value on their hair that they cling on to every last little bit, despite the fact that once your hairline recedes to the back of your head it looks absolutely terrible. I guarantee that any woman would rather have a man with a rockin' shaved head, that a man with a skullet. What is with this obsession with hair in our culture? People should be allowed to age with dignity. In some more advanced cultures they value their elders wisdom and experience. In America we cling to every last bit of youth and spend billions each year on snake oil penis pills and fraud baldness remedies because pop culture tells us being old is something to be ashamed of.

  42. Grow up. This is expected in the Pharm industry. by Theovon · · Score: 1

    Whenever it comes to light that some new drug has caused harm to a lot of people, the response is that they are evil and should have known better. Blah. Blah. I'm not saying I disagree, but it's important to put things into perspective.

    Pharmaceutical companies are businesses dedicated to making a profit. That is all. It just happens to be that the products they are pedaling are chemicals that affect the body. While it may be that some individuals working there care about the potential negative effects of a drug, there is a disconnect between those people who understand the drug and those who market it. Those selling it assume that the scientists understand all the effects and have done adequate testing. But this is impossible, because you can't get large enough sample sizes, and the scientists are sometimes forced to falsify their results, or have it falsified for them before publication. Drug trials are not conducted as a means to ensure safety of the drug -- that obscures the motivation. Drug companies are strictly liable for the effects of their drugs (except for vaccines, where there's a centralized fund), so drug trials are conducted purely as a means to ensure profitability by lowering the probability of being sued, so that the damages paid out are less than the profit margin. It's purely a statistics game.

    This kind of numbers game happens in other industries. For instance, there was the Fort Pinto. It was found during initial testing that in a collision above 25mph, the gas tank would rupture, increasing the chances of a fire. Ford business gurus decided that the cost of the lawsuits would be less than the cost of fixing the problem. The rest is history. And Ford to this day continues to make similar compromises, resulting in unnecessary death and injury.

    But as a result of these business tactics, auto makers and pharm companies are more profitable than they would be if they were more careful. And this is what makes shareholders happy.

  43. Be Bald or Be Balled by k2backhoe · · Score: 1

    Your choice

  44. also only 3-4% of the US population died in WWII by decora · · Score: 1

    therefore, whats all this whining about private ryan and band of brothers etc?

    it was only a tiny proportion of people who actually got killed. Hitler - not actually a big deal.

    i call this the 'inverse godwin'.

  45. Re:Grow up. This is expected in the Pharm industry by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

    ford never actually did that, the memo was intentionally misrepresented.

    in fact the pinto wasn't really any more dangerous than other cars of similar size,

    --
    Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  46. I am glad I never took the pills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was prescribed Propecia as a part of the treatment. I refused to take medication after reading side effects.
    Did the right thing !!!!!!

  47. Well Duh! I've known that for 4years now... by Tasha26 · · Score: 1

    Finasteride or its more common trade names Propecia and Proscar, are commonly used by transsexuals as anti-androgen, to block the effects or reduce levels of testosterone in the male body. It does reduce male pattern baldness and/or alleviates problems of inflated prostate but you're ejaculate will start looking like that liquid which forms on top of yogurt. It will also cause growth of some but not prominent breast tissue. To get better results, trans need to take oestrogen pills e.g. Estrofem. :)

  48. So in essence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can have hair on the big head, or a dead little head. Luckily I have Italian ancestry and a full head of hair at my advanced age so I guess I'll never have to use propecia.

  49. Farben by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's impossible to exaggerate the greed of drug companies. It was studying their history that opened my eyes to the incredible number of lies the public is regularly told about everything. A good place for naive people to start is: The Crime And Punishment of I.G. Farben, by Joseph Borkin.

    For 35 years the author had studied and followed the exploits of the chemical industries and their involvement in the Nazi movement and their relationships with American businesses. The book changed my life and I became acutely aware of my appalling ignorance.

    You probably don't understand why Farben is so important. Look around your residence. You are surrounded by the products of Farben. There is hardly a single item in our lives that isn't connected in some way to that company. Farben = 3rd Reich = Standard Oil = chemicals = anything that has to do with chemicals, including oil, dyes, drugs, fuels, fertilizers, explosives, etc. And that group of industries has more political power than any other, except for possibly the biggest banks, though they are often connected.

    Farben's history is the history of war, money, and power at its most ruthless and avaricious, and it is that history that reveals how much the general public is regularly sheared like sheep - literally herded and slaughtered like poor dumb cattle. Not to know that history and grasp the implications of that power is political illiteracy.

  50. Misleading article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This article is very misleading. The results reported are for people taking 5mg finasteride, which is dose taken to treat an enlarged prostate. 5mg finasteride tablets are sold by Merck as Proscar. The dose used to treat male pattern baldness, however, is 1mg. 1mg finasteride tablets are sold by Merck as Propecia. The available evidence from randomized controlled trials suggests that sexual side effects from 1mg finasteride (Propecia) are rare, if they exist at all. See this article for a more accurate review of the study.

  51. I used to take it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I used to take propecia, for a few months.

    I was advised of the potential side effects on libido I thought "nah that'll never happen to me". Let me tell you. It did. Not only that, it had some negative effects on the plumbing down there, you know, when you want it to work and it doesn't. I was 35 when this happened.

    I figured the cost/benefit risk ratio was too much for me. Sure I want to stop the male pattern baldness, but not at that price.

    If I would have know that the potential effects could be PERMANENT, I would not even have tried the drug, and frankly am extremely disappointed in the way this matter was managed; Merck deserves what's coming their way.

  52. Breasts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    1. Re:Breasts by gay358 · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, finasteride seems to reduce the risk of prostate cancer which is much more common problem than breast cancer in men.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finasteride#Prostate_cancer

  53. Re:also only 3-4% of the US population died in WWI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Holy ignorance. The United States, with a population of 131 million, lost about 420,000 people in World War II. That's about 0.3%.

  54. It all comes down to "Picard or Kirk"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ladies (and interested Gentlemen...) would you care to weigh in on the matter?

  55. What about Proscar? by cvtan · · Score: 1

    Why is there so much attention paid to Propecia when people with benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) are taking Proscar with 5x the dose of finasteride? Maybe there are many more people on Propecia than Proscar. I am one of those lucky ones. The side-effects are not good and I'm off to the doc again... On the other hand, this is a brilliant drug since you have to take it for 6 months to tell if it works and by then it is too late. How do you prove the drug caused anything bad if the effects don't go away when you stop taking it? I don't care about a lawsuit; I just want to be back to "normal".

    --
    Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
  56. Re:"Pwufessuh HaiwyPheet's GREATEST HITS" (NOT!) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously dude get medical help. Your crazed quest is like taking poison and hoping he dies.

  57. Trusting Doctors and drug companies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I really don't understand why people trust doctors, and especially why they trust drug companies. Both are commercial concerns.
    Once upon a time, many years before most of you were born, doctors wanted people to get well and be well.
    Now, with the insurance companies involved, and doctor expenses being far too high (thanks to the scumbag lawyers previously mentioned), doctors and hospitals, and doctors associations, and especially the drug companies and corporations that can afford to make a profit off treatments like the so-called cancer treatments, are a commercial concern. If you don''t have insurance, you can't go to a doctor. If you have insurance, they only allow you to go to a company in which they are heavily invested, sometimes to the point of majority ownership.
    So, sure, trust your doctor. He can prescribe anything, but it will only be funded if the insurance company is invested in the manufacturer, or if it is a generic. Otherwise, you pay for it, at costs that the average person simply cannot afford, especially as most of the drugs now prescribed under the umbrella of "wellness care" or "prevention" are drugs that you will take for the rest of your life, or possibly forfeit insurance coverage.
    When you go to the doctor, he makes no money if you are well. He is invested in the idea that you have something wrong with you. He makes no money from healthy people. However, if he can find some excuse to put you on a prescription, he is likely making a kickback, however small, from the drug company, and he will continue, as long as he finds some reason to keep you "under care" to receive a kickback in the form of continued acceptance by the insurance company.
    Please et this: even though if you require medicine the insurance company has to pay for, even hospitalization, it will only be fully paid for by the insurance company if you go to one of their "accepted providers," meaning that they are fully invested in that company or doctor association. If a "primary care provider" recommends someone "outside the network," he risks losing his insurance company sponsor. Doctors who accept multiple insurance companies (most of them) are careful to ensure that the specialists recommended are the ones accepted by the individual patients' insurance. Otherwise they risk losing that sponsorship.

    None of this is evil. It is "just business." It is not personal. Please remember where you heard those lines, back in the seventies, if you are old enough.

  58. No medicine should be prescribed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    unless it is necessary for your health. No surgery should be performed unless it is necessary for your heath.

    Healthy people should not be operated on and they should not take medicine.

    We should end cosmetic surgery, unless they are treating someone that is deformed, and end cosmetic drugs.

    1. Re:No medicine should be prescribed by cvtan · · Score: 1

      There is a health reason to take finasteride: BPH

      --
      Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
  59. As we say in dermatology: this is a crock of shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The mentioned study was conducted poorly and its statistics are flawed. The age of the participants was not disclosed, nor their medical status and therefore their usual risk factor for impotence was not taken into account.

    The FDA slip for Propecia clearly indicates that if side affects persist after discontinuation the patient should urgently see a physician (slip doesn't indicate it should preferably be an endocrinologist). The likelihood of a simple antiandrogenic agent somehow altering the libido and sexual function of a _healthy, young_ male is too small to warrant any broohaha. What are the depression rates? "Likely" to cause depression can be said about a bad movie. Is the depression comorbid to a previous condition? How many spontaneous manic episodes have been recorded? If none, then depression was underlying all along.

    What is the reaction of the participants to Sildenafil or Taladil? Endocrinological male dysfunction can be reversed in 10 percent of cases by applying high doses of Taladafil, followup studies demonstrate, with the major side affect being a runny nose at times.

    The interviewee in addition seems exceptionally involved in this matter, but too unprofessional.

  60. imbiciles by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    pharmceutical companies have always broken the laws, every single one of them, over many decades. They have been giving huge promotional incentives away to doctors to make them ignore ethics for just as long. Dangle any cure in front of a bald guy and he will sell everything just to get a few strands back.

    I do not think you noticed slashdot is now bugged by commercial enterprise campers - u uslss tards

  61. Hush. Don't bring facts into this. by Benfea · · Score: 1

    He's busy defending the corporate aristocracy. Shame on you for thinking they should be held accountable for their actions. What are you? Some kind of communist? [/rightwinger]