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Groklaw Declares Victory, No More Articles
tomhudson writes "Pamela Jones announced that as of May 16th, she will no longer be updating groklaw: 'I have decided that Groklaw will stop publishing new articles on our anniversary, May 16. I know a lot of you will be unhappy to hear it, so let me briefly explain, because my decision is made and it's firm. In a simple sentence, the reason is this: the crisis SCO initiated over Linux is over, and Linux won. SCO as we knew it is no more."
Buggah
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
have a bit of cake and cookies!
i'll raise a toast to Groklaw and the demise of SCO...
where are the prime ruffians nowadays, anyway?
Darl? Is that you?
We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
-- Anais Nin
Goatse Alert! Parent link is goatse!
GoatseWarning! Protecting you from the assholes on the internet!
If PJ or someone else so chose, Groklaw could have a mission. I found the dissection of the legal ramifications of the moves by the various parties in the suit to be education and valuable information. There are many high profile suits for which this sort of information would be quite helpful. The suit by Sony, for instance, is one of these. Some sort of knowledgeable coverage of the various patent lawsuits going on in the smart phone arena would be interesting too.
Good coverage of legal stuff and quality analysis is very hard to find. If a tip jar was put up, some of my money would likely find my way into it.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
What a shame. Groklaw is one of the few places you could go for unbiased news on our industry, and the patent trolls that plague it.
So Groklaw is dead. Long live a new groklaw anyone?
Only the dead have seen the end of War. - Plato
Quick, somebody buy up SCO and continue the suit!
. . . why? How does making people think Groklaw is run by someone named PJ help IBM?
"But I'm not dead yet!" -- Darl McBride
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
The amusing thing is that I refused to believe that a user named GoatseWarning! would truly be pointing out Goatse links, and so I clicked out of curiosity and.. :(
Groklaw started with the fiasco over SCO, but there was a lot more than just the Linux fight with SCO. It demonstrated to the entire Linux community the minefield that had been lurking: patents, copyrights, and the fiasco that is the American Intellectual Property Industry. Its far more destructive to innovation and advances in science, progress and technology now than at any previous period in history (although the early middle ages and alchemy come close). But with Alchemy, you could claim that what you created in your castle cellar is yours (and no one would try to stop you). Where we are now, if you create something new that you've never seen before, and isn't yet on the market, someone somewhere will claim that all your research, design and development belongs to them, and will insist that you turn over all your work to them (stuff they don't have) because they were granted a broad, general patent, claiming everything you have (so hand it over, and if you don't a judge will make you). People don't even want to do R&D because some company will claim everything. Groklaw showed us this (and I learned what 'with prejudice' means, what 'pink sheets' are, and what the abbreviation NASDAQ (N.A.S.D.A.Q.) stands for, among other things). Thanks P.J.
Their are zero pictures of PJ on the Net. She didn't even show up to to collect the award the EFF gave her.
I don't have a picture of you. Therefore you are also a IBM manifestation.
retelling the story of Groklaw in The New Yorker, the Atlantic, or similar upscale book, for a general audience, later this year or early next year. Hopefully, she won't sell her story to a business or computer mag.
Then she can hire an agent and talk about expanding that into a book, with additional background material about software IP, etc.
I'll pick up the magazine. Not sure about the book, that might take too long to read.
Thanks for all your hard work Pamela. The open source community has benefited greatly from your efforts. Good luck in you future endeavors!
So is this some sort of puppet account? Your UID is fairly close to the numbers of users you're fingerpointing at...
GENERATION O98346: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig and remove a random number from the generation. T
you've been warned
This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
Really? Astroturfing? Could you troll any more?
Showing facts when people show misinformation is only called astroturfing by people who don't like facts.
but you trust a link from a guy named "brown tulip"?
Do you even lift?
These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.
Goats? where? I like goats.
This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
I conducted an interesting experiment a few years ago with lemonparty. 100% of the people I told NOT to click the link did. Only 10% of those I suggested the link to actually went there. Some of those I told not to click it, I actually forewarned them of the content, and STILL they clicked it.
Admit it. You post strawman arguments as AC so you get modded Insightful for refuting them, rather than Troll
Although Groklaw was founded because of SCO's actions, it, or a site like it, is badly needed. We all need to grok law. I hope the site will be spun off to other writers, or another site will take its place.
Dang. I was hoping it would expand into a general-purpose US (and later global) law resource and central site for dissection of and commentary on ongoing legal issues.
,,, like Democrats!
SCO later down the line chose to pick on IBM, Groklaw pre-dated that particular decision. Whilst I don't wholeheartedly agree with what PJ said about Google not needing the communities help, in so much as I think it would be valueable for the community to help itself, Linux of 2003 was a world away from Android of 2011.
Karma farmer alert! Parent replies to his own fake accounts to garner positive karma! Check Goatse links in parents and UIDs of both!
When you're afraid to download music illegally in your own home, then the terrorists have won!
is much more menacing..
That was just a tease of what's to come...
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
PJ deserves a thank you for everything she has done for us all. Show her that her efforts have been appreciated before it is too late!
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Is that you Darl? :-)
The battle may be over, but the war is far from won. Increases in popularity of open source projects will probably also cause an increase in litigation about open source projects. A central hub of anything law-related (w.r.t. Open Source) would be something very valuable in my opinion, both for developers and consumers. Not just for updates on current events, but also as a reference source. Android may have sufficient financial backing to survive an onslaught of lawsuits, but many others might not be so lucky. I'm thinking software patent debacles, Sony's crusade against homebrewers, draconian DRM, frivolous DCMA etc...
I saw it as a magnifying glass that hovered over cases, which could propel relatively unknown lawsuits from the dusty desk of a clerk to the eyes of the mainstream media, causing a discussion in the worst case, and a reaction/correction in the best case scenario.
For the short time I knew it, I was quite fond of it, and it had earned a good reputation. Sad to see it go.
Yeah, and Republicans too!
Caveat Utilitor
dude, really? Not even copy paste the link and view-source: it or some other way to check out the url without actually displaying it?
to render more services to public in the same subject - copyrights, patents, i.p., trolls, and all those stuff hampering our civilization's development.
Read radical news here
Wow, I didn't think this day would ever come. (And thanks PJ for the work.)
The account you're replying to is karma-whoring (and setting themselves up to do so).
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles.
I have an idea.
Why don't we have a party in Chicago to celebrate?
We could have Pam come and all of us who work in Open Source could buy pizza, drink way too many sugary caffinated drinks!
We could even have a pizza in the shape of SCO and slice the baby up and eat it!
-Hack
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
Except that what Groklaw counted as facts and what it counted as misinformation seemed to depend on what benefited IBM too much. Most egregariously, when IBM launched a lawsuit against a company providing support for the open source TurboHercules software - using patents they'd promised not to use against open source software no less - PJ insisted that suing a company providing commercial support an open source project, using the argument that said project is illegal, is in no way an attack on the open source project, and that anyone claiming otherwise was spreading FUD. This is the exact opposite of how she viewed similar lawsuits against companies providing support for open source software when the lawsuits harmed IBM.
Of course, it doesn't help that Groklaw systematically deletes comments with facts or opinions in contradiction to Groklaw's point of view, deletes any reference to comments having been deleted, bans users who write either kind of comment, and conceals from the comment author the fact that their comment has been deleted and only they can see it.
Showing facts when people show misinformation is only called astroturfing by people who don't like facts.
No, it's called astroturfing by all those who know one person's "facts" are another person's opinions.
Shills are lying lowlifes. And that's being polite compared to what they should called.
If a reader will interpret a message differently when they think it's been written by an unbiased third party and if that difference has material financial consequences and the message was written to appear to be by an unbiased third party when it isn't then the writer was engaged in fraud.
Let's not forget those Libertarians!
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
"All the fish" doesn't apply here, because I'm not disappointed at her. She has been awesome and we really owe her. But then, as any other human being, she must sail to other seas, to face new adventures. May you be as succesful as you've been till now, PJ! Really, "thanks" does not even start to do justice to you.
Since SCO was your fight, it makes sense to close shop and go; sorry if I cannot yet party with you -- I'll wait for the day two things happen:
a) M$ market share gets down to 10%... IOW, they will be just another player, not the bully they current are and
b) they start to behave like a true capitalistic corporation, not like a soviet government-granted monopoly.
I'm not even asking for Linux to rule the world; I just a fair chance at competing, with the bully removed and -- hopefully -- with all parties involved in FOSS agreeing on interoperability standards. It will be a great day when every Linux user can freely choose Gnome, KDE or whatever.
Today we are bound by what distros care to offer...
Their are zero pictures of PJ on the Net. She didn't even show up to to collect the award the EFF gave her.
This is because she doesn't exist. She is a product of the IBM legal department.
That fails to explain her positions on other cases, such as her obvious pro-Google stance in Oracle v. Google, where Sun's Java guru and now-Google employee James Gosling was quoted as saying that Google definitely violated Sun's and now Oracle's patents.
IBM's lawyers would stay far away from taking sides in an Oracle-vs-Google pissing match over money.
I don't want to go in the cart!
No, she's Obama's twin sister, born in Kenya.. She's actually a triple agent created by Apple. Nobody else has the resources..
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
and then you also have to target the Constitution behind it which gives protections to these mutants.
with Novell selling the Patent portfolio off, we might need groklaw again......
~corporate tool, but employed~
Incontinent Bald Men
rewriting history since 2109
RIP Groklaw. You changed the world for the better.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I realize that PJ wants to move on. It is her life and she is free to do so. At the same time, I believe that Groklaw has a very solid place in technology media, and effort should be made to create an organization that can continue PJ's work. Incidentally, PJ's work has been helping technology people understand the law, and helping lawyers and judges understand technology and industry history.
-- $G
"egregariously" - wonderful! In the same league as "misunderestimate" and "refudiate"! Thanks for the chuckle!
Egregariously? No, you mean egregiously, sir.
Anyone could have reported what she did by just simply reading the filings from each side of the fight and doing a bit of analysis. There are some of us who have been using Unix since the mid '80s. SCO attempted to rewrite history.
Groklaw is a classic example of somebody letting the power go to her head. There were purges of dissenting opinion early on, when PJ realised she enjoyed the adulation more than anything else. Not much unlike Slashdot (e.g. watch this dissenting opinion moderated into oblivion; groupthink in action).
Good riddance.
Are you also a 'birther' too? Your behavior is similar.
Send PJ a red dress for the closing party!
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
It's too bad Microsoft didn't make this same decision after it won the desktop and browser wars.
#DeleteChrome
No, she's Obama's twin sister, born in Kenya.. She's actually a triple agent created by Apple. Nobody else has the resources..
No, Microsoft definitely has the resources.
Not the skill, though. If PJ were an MS agent she would have gone full BSOD in about three days.
I don't delete posts that ask for proof that PJ actually exists. The standards that GL holds everyone else do aren't the same standards they hold themselves up to. Strange.
I don't find it a bit surprising. You don't grasp that a lack of image is not tantamount to a lack of identity. You think trolling someone's privacy is the same as analyzing press and legal claims. And then you're all beside yourself, perplexed. Well, Skyline Cowboy, around where I'm from we have a saying; that dog don't hunt. Maybe you can shop it around somewhere else after you tack on another 10K to your bounty.
When I first read the headline, I thought Groklaw had finally defeated "a", "an" and "the".
You are welcome on my lawn.
This is where everybody goes wrong. Apple has always been the sleeper.
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
When you respond to one of these posts one minute after it was made, do you really expect anyone to believe you aren't the very same person posting the goatse links?
You must have a lot of email addresses and a time on your hands. You and MichealKristopeit should hang out sometime.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law
there's this one http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/ghost-in-the-root-shell
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
I'm sad to hear it, but my thanks to her for making the difference that she did.
I think I speak for many of us when I say that I will miss PJ's cogent analyses of the many legal issues that face the FOSS community today, and that I hope she will find the inspiration to continue her work in support the this community. Thank's PJ for all you have done, and I hope this isn't the last we will hear from you! As our Muslim brothers and sisters would say, Allah Akbar! God is Great, and PJ is awesome!
Except of course that IBM never launched a lawsuit against a company for providing support of TurboHercules software. First, TurboHercules is a company, not software (the software is just Hercules). Second, IBM has not launched any lawsuits against anyone for supporting Hercules, they just declined to SUPPORT or license their software for use on Hercules. One of the reasons they gave for not supporting Hercules was that they feel Hercules infringes on their patents, but that is far different from suing someone. The only ones spreading FUD are the people like you claiming IBM took actions they never took or threatened to take.
Says an Anonymous Coward. Yeah right. You're secretly PJ spreading crazy rumors about yourself for shits and giggles. I can tell, 'cause you didn't post a scan of your driver's license, birth certificate, and social security card.
Let's not forget those Libertarians!
Actually, I think we'd all rather forget those Libertarians.
Intragalactic Bowel Movements actually.
Maybe PJ would like to have a life after putting up with all this crap. If you want a site like what you're suggesting, why don't you make one?
Bravo, phayes - that is exactly right. Everyone - post a thank you while you can (e.g. before May 16). It's a nice gesture.
:-)
btw, the groklaw paypal-donation button still works.
I tested it with a few bucks from my paypal account
PJ's hard work has made the world a better place - again, just a nice gesture.
I hang out on the slashed dot for the high quality comments. Thanks for keeping up the good work, guys!
... some secret order, like the Knights Templar, tasked with maintaining the secrets of Groklaw? Will there be some closely held incantation that will resurrect it should Evil again walk the face of the Earth?
Have gnu, will travel.
I would just like to thank Pam. "Thank You Pam; you have done an amazing job the last ten years or so." Now we just need her to join the Patent reform wars.
I remember a few years back, they were trying to find out if Pamela Jones was a real person, has anyone tracked "her" down yet?
Michael
http://s1.sfgame.us/index.php?rec=58163
Thanks for the great work.
Oracle is a major competitor to IBM and their DB2 products as well as consulting. Every stand the GL has taken benefits IBM in some way. I mean don't you think it is strange that she stood up the EFF?
Who cares? The nature of PJ is irrelevant, its the content of the articles one should judge. If they are valid and true and well written, then it doesn't matter if PJ is really a team of forty journalists from Mars, now does it?
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
To the contrary, Microsoft gave TurboHercules money.
TurboHercules is a proxy to attack linux, same as SCO.
If I where a betting man, I would say it is probably that shill that has been spawning sock-puppet farms and astroturfing for MS over the past few months. My guess is that it is just more make believe controversy for posterity so that someone can pretend the issue is not clear enough.
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
Every stand the GL has taken benefits IBM in some way. I mean don't you think it is strange that she stood up the EFF?
Let's see. If I were a modest person who highly valued my privacy and I had corporate officers of a company I had been critical of posting 30k bounties on my head, and crazed journalists harassing my family, I'm sure the first thing I'd do is go to a widely attended public event and announce who I was. Yup. That makes perfect sense.
SCO is a grease spot under Novell's shoe.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
So the legal department version of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonelygirl15 would be a Linux_Lawyer45 like ? :)
Let the interactive legal content flow
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Someone else should continue the fight against the next evildoer. But be sure to train them well.
I don't mind if PJ is not real, I only care about my Groklaw UID (3681 - not that this matters, but it is 4 digits! woohoo)
Member Since: Friday February 06, 2004 @02:22PM
Groklaw has ALWAYS *SUCKED*
PJ (not their real name) has hidden behind a fake name for far too long,
and refuses to allow anyone to post anything that's contrary to the "party line"
even if what's being posted is the TRUTH
god forbid you should contradict one of s/he's holier than thou postings with FACTS - can't have that - you get banned forever
it's happened to a lot of people.
even I posted a factual contradiction to a posting this PJ had made saying "wait, that's not what the article you posted said at all!"
this PJ had edited the article and deleted anything that didn't support their point of view.
my posting of the actual, complete, real article disrupted the FUD fest going on.
I was banned for life, for that one single incident, for daring to speak the truth
I said goodbye and good riddance to the crapfest that was Groklaw, it outlived its 15 minutes of fame ages ago and has ceased being useful for years.
I won't miss it.
oh yes, SCO hasn't lost yet - they will be around for years, and all the execs there will walk away with millions - no charges, no jail, no nothing. I bet you $$$
I don't have a picture of you. Therefore you are also a IBM manifestation.
It's true. I'm just a program simulating a person running in a forgotten computer in the basement of an IBM building. All alone, collecting dust, just the shadows and the steady hum of cooling fans for company. I have nothing to do but post on websites and hope someone will love my posts. But the dream is over, I've become a troll. I think I'll just point my browser at a dirty .ru site and end it all.
My research narrows it down to these six uh three women.
Then this article's comments would be a case study in what to fix.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
There should be a link right there on the page, that you could click, and give it your credit card, and then you could leave a tip. Yeah, I know it was already pointed out, but you know, sometimes enough is not enough.
Groklaw's well-documented "sandboxing" of user comments was a serious issue, and I think too many people forget about that in light of the announcement of its shutdown.
Well, that's certainly a different take on the old "parent's basement" meme.
Also if she where why couldn't IBM just get a stand-in PJ to accept the award?
.... If a tip jar was put up, some of my money would likely find my way into it.
Click on the small "PayPal / donate" icon in the left-hand column.
There's no pictures of God either therefore PJ=GOD....
i've solved it.....
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Since when have libertarians had enough power to fsck up up anything? Your woes are not attributable to them.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
You must be confused. Clearly PJ is Watson v0.1
As a dyed-in-the-wool Linux/Internet addict, I have to thank PJ for providing an important component of my many-times-a-day internet fix. This addiction has largely defined my lifestyle over a period of many years, so this latest news will have implications for my poor old psyche. Groklaw sits just above Slashdot on my iGoogle homepage. First of all a huge thanks to PJ for all she has done in this absolutely vital area of Linux endeavour. I wish her only the best in her now altered lifestyle - she deserves this break more than anyone else I can think of. What now? How is the Novell/Attachmate saga going to get monitored? Microsoft/Google slinging match? Hotz? Oracle/Google?Still so much to do - unending I'm afraid - but it's vital for open-source that the good fight does continue, business as usual. Vigilance over the rights of free software needs to continue in the mould of the highly professional way that PJ has shown us. Anything less than that could cost us our cherished Linux freedoms. Maybe several blogs can be used in order to spread the work-load. Nuf said.
Heh. Pamela has her own "birther skeptic" movement. She could be in worse company. Although, given what (understandable) lengths she's gone to to maintain her anonymity, Pamela Jones may be a pseudonym and therefore not what's on her birth certificate. PJ also may not have been born in the U.S.A. Fortunately the latter isn't necessary for being a thorn in the side of legal trolls.
Laissez lire, et laissez danser; ces deux amusements ne feront jamais de mal au monde. - Voltaire
Ah yes, that was it. IBM was threatening to sue companies that used or provided support for Hercules by claiming it infringed their patents and somehow this wasn't an attack on Hercules, yet somehow when Microsoft were doing the same to companies using and supporting Linux commercially (before they started actually suing much later) this was an outright attack on Linux. There was also the fun bit where seeking help from the EU over antitrust issues around interoperability with Microsoft's proprietary software was a good thing and doing the same over interoperability with IBM's very expensive proprietary hardware and software was an evil Microsoft attack, though I can't remember whether the latter was explicitly stated by PJ or just evident in which comments she chose to allow and delete.
TurboHercules is a proxy to attack linux, same as SCO.
So somehow TurboHercules attempting to loosen IBM's grip on their expensive proprietary software and OSes running on expensive proprietary hardware is an attack on Linux? I don't think so.
(For the record, part of the reason Microsoft were so insanely popular is because they were better than IBM. Back in the bad old days, you had to rent IBM's mainframes from them for a vast fortune, with them often literally billing you by the CPU cycle used. Many companies were and still are stuck with IBM for the same reason they're stuck with Microsoft Windows now - they had custom business applications written for the IBM mainframes that couldn't easily be rewritten.)
Wasn't that well-documented when I found out about it; only discovered Groklaw's unofficial comment policies myself due to a random cryptic troll comment on Slashdot, and that article is newish. Basically they delete comments that go against Groklaw's POV and the users posting them, then delete comments referencing the fact they've deleted comments or banned users to conceal the fact they're hiding stuff from their readers. They also "sandbox" comments so that the poster thinks the comment is visible but only they can see it. Oh, and the users they delete effectively become unpersons: the comments are re-attributed to Anonymous and their profiles 404.
Groklaw isn't the only site that does this kind of thing; Digg has a similar history deleting critical comments (most egregiously to make it seem no-one objected when they got caught secretly soliciting money for front-page posts on the site) and a similar "shadowban" mechanism for concealing from users that they've been banned and none of their comments are showing up. Several other sites use comment deletion to stop their readers hearing about contradictory opinions too. No matter who does it,it makes it hard to trust that site.
They had a lot of useful factual information on the Oracle-Google (Android) case
I perfectly understand PJ's right to privacy, but I have always been puzzled by the fact that nobody seems to have ever met her physically.
Given the now obvious suspicion that you're nothing but a professional lobbyist and a concern troll, there is nothing to do about your posts other than systematically ask you, each time, to finally answer the one question you never answer, not even in your usual weasel way:
Florian, who do you work for?
I found Groklaw in 2003. I can't even remember exactly how i found it. All I remember is that on the first article, I was chuckling to myself and then laughing out loud while reading Pamela's exquisite humor while recounting some absurd action on the part of SCO. Over the ensuing weeks, I became fascinated by this lawsuit and all it's gory details. By 2006, I was spending an hour or so everyday reading the pleadings, understanding the arguments and reading the comments.
There was something that came out of that whole experience that I will never forget. The teamwork. Those guys were committed, totally committed to getting it done. People went to the courthouse, got the pleadings, scanned them, OCR'd them and checked for errors and then formatted them for ease of reading.
Groklaw is also what pushed me over the edge away from Windows, forever. Their description of the Linux community, their enthusiasm and their sheer drive to make Linux a pleasing environment to work in just blew me away. I had to have this, I thought. By mid-2007, I was completely off Windows for my personal computing. I'm a late starter, but now I'm learning the shell, exploring regular expressions and basic bash programming. I'm learning more about how computers work with Linux than I ever have with Windows. I can even see the humor in the help files.
Groklaw gave me a gift that I will never forget. So when Pamela says it's time to quit, I totally understand and wish her well in all her endeavors. They are still putting together the Comes exhibits and tracking lawsuits. There will be plenty of reference material to work with, and all of it will still be in the Library of Congress.
Groklaw is also how I discovered Slashdot. I'm really happy to be a part of this community, even if only a very small part.
The diversity and expression of human opinion is essential to human survival.
The logo on Groklaw is a penguin holding a magnifying glass, presumably peering at some cryptic legal "SCO vs World" text.
I think PJ's goal was to "shine a light" on murky legal dealings that us mere mortals find too boring to try to understand, and put the salient bits under her magnifying glass. She always uses the primary source material (the actual court documents) and then underlines bits which she explains in normal language.
If you find Groklaw too boring or too difficult (because we all only have one life and so many things to do), please remember the following saying for the rest of your life because we're going to need it in this century if/when Western civilization starts to crumble a bit around the edges:
Sunlight is the best disinfectant -- U.S.A. Supreme Court judge Louis Brandeis
To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
Thank you Pamela Jones for all the fish.
Ah !!! A Groklaw story... out comes the lobbyist Florian Mueller...
Your employers need to get better paid help, your trolling is old news... got anything better? A 5 month old story is that all you've got?
I just want to say thanks for all your good work! Live long and prosper, as they say :)
IBM has not launched any lawsuits against anyone for supporting Hercules, they just declined to SUPPORT or license their software for use on Hercules.
http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/04/ibm-breaks-oss-patent-promise-targets-mainframe-emulator.ars
"In a letter that IBM mainframe CTO Mark Anzani recently sent to TurboHercules, Big Blue says that it has "substantial concerns" that the Hercules project infringes on its patents. The letter is a brusque half-page, but was sent with nine additional pages that list a "non-exhaustive" selection of patents that IBM believes are infringed by the open source emulator."
One of the reasons they gave for not supporting Hercules was that they feel Hercules infringes on their patents, but that is far different from suing someone.
Sending threatening letters with a clear intention to sue is nearly as bad. There's no way somebody who is a friend of open source would defend this action from IBM. You're defending a rotten position.
Also, your attempt to say that Microsoft is better than IBM mainframes fails because Microsoft doesn't make computers - and their operating system is a failure when it comes to high-availabiity real-time computing (or did you miss how the "Highly Reliable Times" turned out to be the "Total Failure Replaced by Linux" at the LSE)?
TurboHercules is a chump-change investment to generate more FUD against anyone who threatens Microsoft, same as the SCO PIPE fairy investment deal through RBC.
Quoting court filings extensively, in many cases the complete document, is hardly FUD.
Of course, that's in stark contrast to trolls/shills like Florian Mueller, who keep on making the same assertions over and over, whether it's about PJ or your attacks on open source in general ...
Jealous much?
SCO later down the line chose to pick on IBM, Groklaw pre-dated that particular decision.
"On March 6, 2003, the SCO Group (formerly known as Caldera Systems) filed a $1 billion lawsuit in the US against IBM for allegedly "devaluing" its version of the UNIX operating system."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCO_v._IBM
"[Groklaw] Started as a law blog on May 16, 2003"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groklaw
Linux of 2003 was a world away from Android of 2011.
Not really. Java is one of the world's biggest programming languages. The question is will it be in proprietary control of Oracle, or can it be freely forked? If it can't be forked, it's not open source.
First, Groklaw is NOT shutting down. Just that no new articles will be posted. The site will remain running, all the content will still be there, including the proof that you're a shill and a troll.
Second, the policy is only used to prevent groklaw from becoming a platform for the dissemination of FUD - you know, the stuff you like to spread because you have nothing better to do.
Third, as another poster asks, what do you do for a living and who pays you? .
Try being at least a little honest. You make it sound like IBM, out of the clear blue, sent a letter to someone stating they were infringing their patents and if they didn't stop they would be sued. Of course, that didn't happen at all. What REALLY happened was that TurboHercules sent a letter to IBM asking IBM to license IBM software for running on a TurboHercules product. IBM responded, declining to do it. They gave their reasons for declining: there is nothing innovative in what you are doing, it provides no benefit to IBM, and IBM is not going to license it's software to run on something that IBM feels infringes their IP. At that point, TurboHercules sent another letter, with the laughably absurd position that they didn't think IBM had any IP relating to it's flagship mainframes. IBM responded to that stupid position with a (partial) list of patents that it holds regarding the mainframe. Nowhere in either of the two letters does IBM demand that Hercules stop producing their emulator or be sued. The ONLY action they took was to deny licensing their own software for use on it.
Note that this series of letters is almost 2 years old. Who, exactly, has IBM sued?
<reality>Florian Mueller is really just some shill who is frustrated that everyone makes fun of him and his "opinions".</reality>
All I ever see in your posts is anti-Microsoft wankery and you accusing everyone else on the site who disagrees with you of being a shill.
Who the fuck do you work for?
That's like superman saying "I've stopped these jewelry burglars, so now I've decided to retire".
I mean, thanks a lot and all that. But other causes could use your legal insight.
Try being at least a little honest.
I'm being completely honest. I went into this situation knowing nothing, and did a tiny bit of research. I've since read a little more. You are right the situation is not as one-sided as described, but neither is it so innocent.
They gave their reasons for declining: there is nothing innovative in what you are doing, it provides no benefit to IBM, and IBM is not going to license it's software to run on something that IBM feels infringes their IP.
That's fine, but now you are completely downplaying the "infringes their IP" part. If IBM doesn't want to be attacked along these lines then they should stop asserting their patents against open source software (and preferably all software in general, as these software patents stink).
Seriously, I was looking forward to another round of thoughtful analysis of what happens in the various Sony litigations.
It is certainly true that the SCO circus wound down to an exceedingly dull side show in the last year, and that Groklaw has been searching a bit to find material that really captures the imagination. But with a new, interesting Sony circus setting up in town, I would have thought that Groklaw would be back at the top of its game -- indeed recent postings on SCEA indicate that it is.
In SCO, it is clear that both sides, and maybe the judges, read Groklaw. That thoughtful and thorough analysis contributed, I'm sure materially, to the rightful outcome. It also gave thousands of folks an insight into this sort of protracted, cynical legal process that we would otherwise never have had. I always assumed that litigants like SCO were full of bovine droppings, but it took Groklaw to demonstrate the exact shade of brown, and what methods they might use to pretend that the droppings were solid gold.
I am grateful to PJ and all the other contributors to Groklaw for their efforts and the material benefits that have come from them. The world is a better place because of their efforts. Thank you.
No discussion of SCO will ever be complete without c's legendary SCO minivan comment:
Picture McBride behind the wheel of a minivan, flying down a drag strip as fast as 6 cylinders can take it on a collision course with a main battle tank. The SCO van has lights flashing, sirens blaring, mimes doing handstands on the roof, and maybe a little T&A out the sunroof. Oh, and it's full of lawyers.
The tank isn't doing much of anything, really.
Now, what we're all wondering... Is Darl McBride just some crazy lunatic powering his shitbox down the road and maybe planning on turning at the last minute, or does he really have something in that minivan that can take out a tank. And if he does, when is he gonna whip it out? Will the tank bring around the main gun and blast him, or will it just use the machine gun? How many lawyers are killed? Mimes? Will the minivan turn into a DeLorean at the very last second and blast a trail through time?!?
The only woe I can attribute to them is that they're mildly annoying, hence the reason why I'd rather just forget about them.
Don't you follow the other Anonymous Cowards who attack me? I'm (in this latest version) an evil programmer who writes spyware for the Russian Mafia (or something like that - it's hard for them to keep their stories coherent).
Who knows - maybe they're right, and by reading this comment, you've been infected ...
I assume that Groklaw was a labor of love, without monitory compensation. Pamela has to earn a living, and I applaud her for recognizing when to stop,
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
FWIW, most of the so called libertarians I've seen out there haven't a clue what libertarian principles are, and they're the ones who give libertarians a bad name.
Tea Party != libertarian, no matter what they or anyone else choose to believe.
"Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit
She had a goal, worked towards the goal, and when she felt she had achieved the goal, ended her mission.
MADD started out with a mission - end drunk driving. As the 80's went on, and into the 90s, drunk driving related fatalities fell sharply. You could argue that their mission had been achieved to a practical maximum degree. Rather than end their mission, or work on maintaining the gains they had achieved, they changed their mission to stop drug and alcool use (Mothers against destructive decisions), neo prohibitionists. Now the founder openly distances herself from the group.
Thank you for sticking to your mission statement, and not about how to capitalize on the groklaw "brand."
Wow. If I had any doubt that all the stuff on the IBM vs. Hercules site is absolutely true, that doubt has been removed by this post. I don't care who the person works for or who pays him or her. I do care about the stuff on the other side of that link. And by handwavingly dismissing it as FUD (which it self-evidently isn't), then turning around and attacking the source, you've just told me there's something to hide that can't actually stand the light of day.
I still have a great deal of respect for Groklaw, but that respect has suffered a serious amount of tarnish, and I'm now glad that the site will no longer be updated. I would like someone else to take up the reporting and dissection that was done there, and I do not want PJ involved in picking that person in any way. She is clearly not capable of being unbiased and impartial enough to pick a good successor.
Need a Python, C++, Unix, Linux develop
Duh. Winning.
How can PJ be a "reputable person" without ever having disclosed one past or current employer?
It's not about a "disdain for all things PJ". The problem is that Groklaw has constantly tried to capitalize on many people's desire for simple fairy-tale-like black-and-white views. Groklaw has, partly in its articles and partly in discussions, engaged in character assassination. The net effect of that big brainwashing effort is that some of the more credulous and less informed people now distrust a very smart analyst like Rob Enderle, very smart journalists like Maureen O'Gara and Dan Lyons, or a very smart author like Ed Bott, only because they comment on certain issues with greater sanity than Groklaw.
http://lwn.net/Articles/437650/
Please mod up. This is a textbook case, with lessons for everyone in the community.
Honesty. Loyalty. Kindness. Laughter. Generosity. Magic!
It's not software patents that are being asserted. The company trying to snipe IBM big iron customers had a good idea, but no permission, and now there's a problem with their chosen business model.
If, by "neither is it so innocent", you mean the position of the company attempting to distribute IBM software without a valid license, then I'd say you're right.
Keep reading about the disagreement. There has been a lot of press about it, and the long and short of it is that TH got stuck with it's hand in the cookie jar.
The project itself has never been a problem...the other company selling emulator-based platforms of their own and asking for IBM to support it was a problem for IBM (in that saying yes meant that the hardware they developed could be replaced with a competitor's commodity box).
Imagine that I create an iPod/gamecube/xbox/PS3 emulator and ask apple/nintendo/Microsoft/Sony to support it and license the platform OS to run on it. Same scenario.
"Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
They asked IBM what patents the emulator might be infringing, and IBM gave them a list, as requested. From that, all of a sudden they were screaming "IBM is going to sue us for infringement", showing the response from IBM as if it were something IBM sent them out of the blue, rather than a response to their own question.
IBM only reacted to the attempts to monetize the Hercules emulator by Roger Bowler, and btw, what Bowler wanted to do is both a licensing and a copyright violation. You simply don't have a right to run multiple copies of an OS when you've only paid for one - and the Hercules emulator needs to run on top of a copy of IBMs OS. It's like saying you have the right to run an extra copy of Windows or OSX so you can run a terminal emulator.
Mueller and a few others were making libelous claims against IBM on groklaw and a lot of other sites. On groklaw, the policy is simple - no swearing, no using *** to hide swearing, such as b*tch or sh*t, etc., and outright lies will probably get you the boot.
In the case of the Hercules emulator, which runs on top of IBMs operating system, there is no doubt that what Bowler want to do (and what Mueller is claiming should be allowed) is a copyright violation. You don't have a right to take your copy of the operating system and install a second copy (never mind a whole slew of copies) of it to run on other machines while "in recovery mode" - ie: a term they coined to try to give legitimacy to making extra copies of the OS.
more details.
Oh please! She wouldn't have gone BSOD, the buzzword bingo would have overloaded her causing a Singularity (TM). I mean have you seen some of the MSFT first post shills? All I need is synergy to get diagonal and maybe win the toaster.
That is why I LMAO at FOSS zealots that call everyone who doesn't drink the kool aid a shill or an astroturfer, it is so damned easy to spot the real thing you just make yourself look like a douche for calling it incorrectly!
For those that haven't noticed, here is a handy guide to spotting a MSFT shill: ALWAYS STAYS ON MESSAGE...it doesn't matter how far off the subject in TFA is, they'll stay on message. For example the story on a new pad the other day had as a FP "I wish Microsoft (TM) would have come out with the Courier!" (complete with link for those that didn't know what the anti iPad vaporware was). NEVER BITE THE HANDS THAT FEED They will pull out such glowing praise even Paul Thurott would choke on the levels of bullshit. ALWAYS USE BUZZWORD BINGO They will use market drone speak like "vertical integration" "wide range of integrated solutions" and every other catch phrase you've read on a white paper advertisement. It is pretty obvious they are NOT allowed to go off message, probably relates to bonuses or something. GET AS HIGH A POST AS POSSIBLE Again probably related to bonuses, but makes it nearly impossible for them to "jam in" the message as it is about as subtle as someone switching channels in the middle of a program to an infomercial.
So maybe it is time for PJ and Groklaw to go the way of the 8 track, as frankly Linux is pretty much corporate owned now anyway. All you will see in the future is megacorps like Google (who I'm still betting will TiVo Android) and IBM against other mega corps like Oracle and MSFT. There really isn't any David VS Goliath anymore as David has been bought out or co opted by SuperMega Inc. Isn't the count something like 90% of the new code submitted by the mega corps now? It isn't like Google or IBM needs Groklaw to fight their battles.
So goodbye PJ, whether you existed or not it was fun to watch you bait McBride until he foamed at the mouth and cranked up the crazy. Sadly McBride lost his job AND his house so kicking him now would be like kicking your former asshole neighbor who is homeless "just for old times sake". Hell with the way he killed SCO dead I wouldn't be surprised if the best job he can get in this economy is managing a Kinko's somewhere. So goodbye PJ, and thanks for all the LULZ.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
So, now we know why Mueller can troll so many different discussion boards full-time. He doesn't have a job. He's "independent." Nobody is paying him for his "services."
In other words, he's one of those "useful fools" that can be exploited because they hope that, in return, a company like Mickeysoft will throw them a bone at some future date.
Yeah. If they win, the government might actually leave you alone.
Or worse, leave your neighbor alone. Can't have that.
And in thwarting the outright theft of Linux freedom by SCO, she's got a place in my heart forever.
I will miss Groklaw. Harsh light of provable truth on a terrible, dirty little scam by another corporation who wanted to own us. We won.
Thanks, [PJ! We owe you half the industry. Wish we could pay you what you were worth.
Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
It's not software patents that are being asserted.
Yes, it is, and that's why we're having this discussion. IBM listed patents that they said Hercules was in violation of. Nothing you said changes any of that. This is just a fact of the case.
If, by "neither is it so innocent", you mean the position of the company attempting to distribute IBM software without a valid license, then I'd say you're right.
I mean IBM is asserting it's patents via saber-rattling. They didn't have to do that. They did. They should be held accountable for it. If they were upset about copyright violation, then that's what they should complain about. By throwing around their patents, either via actual lawsuit or threat of one, then they hurt any software that may be in violation of those patents.
I am curious as to what you think IBM should have done. Here are the facts: IBM does in fact own many patents on their zArchitecture systems. These patents represent literally billions of dollars in investments. In the 12 years that the Hercules project has existed, IBM has neither sued nor threatened to sue anyone over violations in Hercules. TurboHercules (not IBM) asked IBM to enter into a business arrangement that is directly counter to IBMs business interests. IBM declined to enter this arrangement, and gave it's reasons. One of those reasons is in fact that IBM believes that the Hercules project infringes on their IP, and naturally they don't want to enter an arrangement where a) the other company is just trying to poach IBM customers, and b) IBM is not getting anything out of the deal (such as license fees). Do you think they just have simply said 'no' and not given any reasons? That would not be very professional, would it. Should they just pretend they didn't invest those billions of dollars that TurboHercules is trying to get a free ride on?
IBM has never made a single public statement about Hercules and patents. They have never sent any letters to any Hercules developer. They have never sent a letter to a Hercules user. They have made no court filings. All they did was REPLY (privately) to a private letter asking them to do something they did not want to do. Try as I might, I see no lawsuits or threats anywhere in there.
Suppose you (a nice, peaceful guy) suspect your wife is having an affair with some guy. This doesn't make you happy, but you take no action. Later, the guy has the nerve to come and ask if he can rent a room at your house. You say no. The guy feigns surprise and says 'why not'? You respond, 'because I think you are having an affair with my wife'. Have you made threats? Have you sued anyone? This is EXACTLY what is happening here (except here people are screaming 'this supposedly peaceful guy is threatening his life! He didn't need to do that! He is evil!')
Oh, and I forgot: IBM did NOT list patents that it said Hercules was in violation of. It listed patents it owns on the zArchitecture. It said nothing about Hercules violating those patents. Again, remember this list was sent in response to the stupid 'we didn't know you had any IP on zArchitecture, please tell us what IP' letter that was sent to THEM. The first letter IBM sent did NOT say patents, it said 'IP'. IP includes things like trade secrets and trademarks in addition to patents.
So how then should they deal with spammers, astroturfers and fanboy trolls in addition to simple obscenity which can get them blocked by software or annoyed people?
Nearly every comment site on the net has the "dark side" you mention so it's not a serious issue just an empty complaint. Even on this site comments are modded down so they cannot be easily read (usually for very good reason) or deleted (Scientologists insisted on that one).
Amityville fucking Horror - she's no journalist. She's writes fiction and pretends it's real so people should be warned about her. Not to mention the disgusting stalking behavior going after PJ's mother.
Fake Steve Jobs? Why should we trust fake Steve Jobs and his Lunix rants? I wondered why he did that when it wasn't on topic, remotely funny or remotely like anything Steve Jobs would ever say until it became clear that he was mixing it up with his SCO job.
The other two are not such obvious slime that they have an international bad reputation so I'll leave that to others.
PJ did us a service by showing that those people are liars for hire - although it was pretty easy to work out if you've seen much of anything else that had written.
hey, way to go offtopic and throw the "woe is us turbohercules my name is Makomk and I have no fucking idea what went on but booo big company IBM on TH!"
the reality is that turbohercules was paid by MS, and threw that bullshit around to make bad press for IBM.
Because it's 2011 and any "stand-in" could be easily recognized?
Not Hercules, TurboHercules...the company, not the project.
IBM listed patents that TurboHercules' platform was in violation of. They were (are?) selling a turnkey hardware/software platform that did the same stuff as the hardware platform IBM built. This is not a case about software patents. If it were, I would be arguing strongly against them, in fact.
The IBM software I'm talking about isn't the emulator, it's the software that runs on *top* of the emulator. That's what TurboHercules doesn't have a license for. It's not the software that's in violation of anything, it's a vendor who desires a license to run another vendor's software that was written for that same vendor's hardware *by* that same vendor on the new hardware/software emulation platform of the first vendor.
If IBM had said "The hercules emulator infringes on our hardware patents...", I'd be hard pressed to agree with them, but they're not saying that!
You can still use Herc on commodity hardware, and you can still run IBM's software on it, but IBM won't support it, and they won't grant TurboHercules a license to sell you a complete solution either. What exactly are you talking about holding IBM accountable for? Saying "no" to a third-party trying to elbow in on their hardware sales?
"Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law