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DRM Drives Gamers To Piracy, Says Good Old Games

arcticstoat writes "Independent retro games retailer Good Old Games has spoken out about digital rights management, saying that it can actually drive gamers to piracy, rather than acting as a deterrent. In an interview, a spokesperson for Good Old Games said that the effectiveness of DRM as a piracy-deterrent was 'None, or close to none.' 'What I will say isn't popular in the gaming industry,' says Kukawski, 'but in my opinion DRM drives people to pirate games rather than prevent them from doing that. Would you rather spend $50 on a game that requires installing malware on your system, or to stay online all the time and crashes every time the connection goes down, or would you rather download a cracked version without all that hassle?'"

29 of 642 comments (clear)

  1. Yup by Kell+Bengal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I certainly agree. I accidentally bought a game with DRM and online activation that I couldn't return (brick and morter retailer while on holiday). I'm allergic to installing that crap on my system, so I figured out how to bypass it with a modified exe. Why go to all that effort? Because I should control my system, and nobody else. I won't go so far as to pirate it, but I can understand why some people would.

    --
    Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
    altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
    1. Re:Yup by Zemran · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I will not consider buying a game that I cannot get a nocd crack for. Why would I want to have to put a DVD in every time I play? As for having to play while online, there is no way I would pay for something that I cannot play when I want, and I do not always have an internet connection. It is all stupid, so yes, I know that I 'AM' driven to look at p2p games because I cannot get a playable version that I can buy.

      --
      I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
    2. Re:Yup by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Informative

      As a PC repairman I'd also like to point out that some of the nastier DRM can completely brick your system forcing a reinstall or in some cases even destroying hardware. How is that possible you ask?

      Simple: In the first cases many versions of Safedisc, Starforce, and secuROM will attempt to install X86 Ring 0 code into an X64 kernel which as anyone that knows anything about OSes knows that is a BIG fricking no no with a capital B for bad. Now not only does this malware install X86 ring 0 code into an X64 OS, causing all kinds of instability and system problems the uninstaller will NOT remove it and it can't be safely uninstalled from the OS, even in safe mode. So if you don't have a Windows Live CD like I do or have a dual boot setup you WILL be uninstalling and reinstalling. I hope you have your data or a separate partition or drive.

      Second I have found when you mix differing versions of Safedisc,SecuROM, and Starforce (since often it will force you to have multiple versions, since they don't recognize each others "security") there is a serious risk of throwing any burners on the machine into PIO mode which happens more often with XP, although I have seen it twice so far with Vista as well. Since modern burners aren't made to run that slow what happens is every burn comes out useless until the drive motors burn out bricking the drive. I can't count how many nice new DVD burners I've shitcanned because of this problem, it really bites XP customers in the ass.

      So my advice is this: If you are on an X64 version have disc images of the OS which is good advice anyway, along with using a site such as GameCopyWorld to hack the .exe BEFORE launching. What I've found is much of the ring 0 crap that breaks machines isn't installed until first launch, so by hacking the .exe one can bypass the crap before it can do any damage.

      Second if you can buy from GOG which has NO ring 0 crap, but if you have to play one that has nasty DRM buy the game but play the cracked game instead as this allows you to again bypass the bullshit and still play the game. For an example I bought Bioshock II recently for $10 (yeah I know its a shit game, but it was $10 and I missed doing the Plasmid/weapon two step) but after reading all the horror stories of nasty DRM and GFWL having to be installed (shudder, what a POS service! MSFT needs ro STFU and realize their shit will never be as good as Steam already!) I left the one I paid for in the box and got the cracked version which works perfectly without all the crap.

      TLDR? If you want a faster game running better on a more stable system then pirate the fucker. hell it doesn't matter what you do anyway as they'll use any numbers they pull out their ass to justify giving us shitty console ports anyway.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    3. Re:Yup by shentino · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You'd think that Ring 0 hacks would constitute unlawful modification of the OS itself.

      Where's Microsoft in this?

    4. Re:Yup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      I'm going to repost my previous comment to another story.

      I've downloaded some ~20 cracks for PC games. I've cracked about 6 games using my own (not-quite-expert) REing skill.

      I verify each crack I download. So far none have been fakes or malicious. They've fallen under two categories.

      • [Conditional] JMP manipulations only: hex editor spots these immediately (e.g. 0x75 -> 0x74). Always safe. Most cracks fall under this category. Standard examples: Mass Effect 2, Oblivion.
      • Unpacking. Typically this means the entire code section is replaced (and data/imports sometimes). Must dump@OEP to compare. SecuROM falls under here.

      I haven't bought a game yet which uses some of the more modern DRM techniques (e.g. remote server emu).

      Usually, if you stick by the dedicated release groups, you can be certain the cracks are safe. All crackers pour over their releases to see what they did -- their reputation would irreparably tank if discovered.

      For each new crack released for a semi-popular game there are at least a dozen unaffiliated crackers looking over their work, especially if it's an attempt at a previously uncracked DRM scheme. Malware would be noticed immediately.

      Once you know even the basics of REing it's utterly trivial to verify most cracks. Most of them can be analyzed in under 10 seconds with a hex editor that can compare binaries. The more complicated DRM is still easy to vet, because you only need to dump the packed exe/dll (doing whatever steps that might entail) to compare it... you don't need to personally repair the IAT or anything like that.

      Maybe you won't believe it but prestige matters to game cracking groups. Malware is very rare. It's nothing like you see with the shareware scene.

    5. Re:Yup by causality · · Score: 4, Funny

      You'd think that Ring 0 hacks would constitute unlawful modification of the OS itself.

      Where's Microsoft in this?

      At the bank.

      --
      It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
    6. Re:Yup by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      These days the point of DRM seems to be more to stop video game rentals and prevent you selling the game second hand rather than stopping piracy.

      --
      No sig today...
    7. Re:Yup by mwvdlee · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A few years ago I had a collegue who would buy the big-name games, keep them in their plastic wrap and download and install the pirated version instead simply because the pirated version didn't require him to jump through hoops. These days with more obnoxious authentication and online accounts the hoops have gotten smaller and are arranged in a snake like pattern in the mud. I'm guessing this is what a lot of people do with their legally purchased games nowadays; the pirated versions are simply better.

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      Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  2. I started pirating because of DRM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Then I kept doing it because I'm cheap. Guess they got to me in my formative years.

  3. Not just games, either... by drunkennewfiemidget · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The whole Blu-ray bullshit, too.

    I have a blu-ray player, but I run Linux. Playing Blu-ray in linux is difficult and error prone.

    So I download the movies instead. I would happily buy them legally if I could pop them in and just play them in linux.

    And the fact that the bluray rips are available with little to no effort on all the pirate sites would suggest to me that the copy protection isn't working anyway.

    1. Re:Not just games, either... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes mod down yet another complaint about how Linux is shit - maybe no one will notice.

      No one who uses and advocates Linux thinks that a flaw in Linux created this situation. That's because they are acquainted with the facts. The fanboys who vent their nerd rage at anyone who slams Linux by modding them down would not interpret the comment as a slam against Linux. If anything it's a slam against the big media companies. Shit man, the guy said he uses Linux. Compatibility with Linux is important enough to affect his purchasing decisions. Think about that a moment.

      I'll explain the part you don't seem to know about. It's not exactly Linux's fault that the owners of Blu-ray use strong encryption to lock it to set-top players and closed-source platforms like Windows. Maybe you have a legit complaint about Linux but this isn't one of them. The only reason you can play it at all in Linux is because a weak implementation of this encryption caused the keys to be released.

      If you really don't like this the people to complain to are the companies that license Blu-ray. Not the Linux developers. If you don't care that much then what are you complaining about?

      Now, consider this. Maybe the reason he was at first modded down is because he accepts and maybe even advocates piracy. That's a polarizing topic. I don't agree with them but there are people who think it is always wrong no matter what the excuse and that it's illegal for good reason. To them his tacit acceptance of piracy really might be offensive tho honestly I wish they'd grow a pair and argue their case instead of abusing the mod system. It's an alternate explanation that more plausibly fits the facts and it didn't occur to you because you were stuck on your little anti-anti-anti-linux rant.

      Seriously man, if you ever wonder why great, meaningful, edifying, constructive discussion can be so hard to find it's because people like you are destroying it. I know you don't set out to do that but brother, that doesn't mean you aren't.

    2. Re:Not just games, either... by PPalmgren · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You wanna hear some real crap? I bought a bluray player, and the firmware update removed the ability to play DVDs (firmware update being required to play newer movies). It even says that the player will require physical maintenance to restore it on Samsung's troubleshooting. Guess what? They want to charge me $160 to fix it, and three tech support avenues later they are still dodging my contention of the charges.

      Hooray for taxing DRM, in a literal sense. Well, those bastards at Samsung will certainly be getting negative press from me on any mention of Bluray online as a result.

    3. Re:Not just games, either... by 0111+1110 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I actually remember when Slashdot was about nerdy things. You know, things like actually doing cool stuff with computers, networks, etc.,and then talking about them here, and not about pissing and moaning about how "The Man" was preventing us from being entertained by things that that others had created to which we felt we were entitled to, simply because we couldn't entertain ourselves, nor create anything nerdy.

      Actually I think piracy is pretty nerdy. I have in fact cracked one piece of commercial software all by myself and I didn't feel bad at all. In fact it felt great. I was proud of myself. I can't think of anything more nerdy than cracking DRM. And it's great fun involving computers. Unpacking, decompiling, reading assembly language, all those lovely opcodes... All the raw beauty of information technology spread right out before you. Every computer science major should be required to crack a major piece of commercial software before graduating.

      As far as blurays, the hackers at Slysoft have got our backs. They are clever and very skilled and have saved the bluray format for me. Instead of just sticking the disc in a standalone player (which I don't even own) I rip the disc to my drive and start the geeky command line process of demuxing it into its components, messing with the audio in Soundforge and remuxing the result with mkvmerge. Another command line utility. That isn't geeky? Not as geeky as actually writing utilites for the process like the ubergeek madshi did, but more geeky than just placing the disc in a standalone player and watching it on your TV, which is what hollywood wants you to do.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
  4. I'm an example by dbIII · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Dungeon Keeper II - loved the game and bought the game. The problem is it won't actually succeed in doing the stupid copy protection CD check anymore or run properly on XP without two cracks to get it to run - so that's what I do. I'd even considered buying it again at one point but gave up after a fruitless attempt to track it down.

  5. Trust issues by WoollyMittens · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If DRM is a result of the publisher's distrust in me, then my boycot is a result of my distrust in them.

  6. Not news, just an advert by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am a big fan of GOG.com, but I am not so blind to fail to notice that this whole article is just an advert for them. It is hardly "interesting to see them coming from an online game retail business" when that retail business is dedicated to non-DRM games!

    I agree that intrusive DRM will drive some people to piracy, or at least stops people (like me) from buying the products (FU! EA). But I am not convinced that the number of customers lost would be more than the number gained by preventing casual piracy. DRM will never stop the dedicated pirates, it is more aimed at people who do not identify themselves as pirates but who just loan their discs to their mates.

    1. Re:Not news, just an advert by proxy318 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      it is more aimed at people who do not identify themselves as pirates but who just loan their discs to their mates.

      And what's wrong with that? My friends and I lend each other books, movies, etc. all the time. If I buy a game, why can't I lend it to a friend when I'm done playing it?

      --
      Saying your "phone ran out of batteries" is like saying your "car ran out of gas tanks".
  7. Bioware just dropped the ball this weekend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    DRM for the DLC of Dragon Age Origins has been preventing users from playing the game since Friday. The verification servers are having an issue preventing authorization. Still no fix in sight.

    Meanwhile all of the pirates are playing without issues.

  8. Pretty much correct by PhrostyMcByte · · Score: 3, Informative

    I have a friend who couldn't play some game -- I believe it was Assassin's Creed 2 -- because his internet is so unstable that he's lucky to have an uninterrupted connection for more than 15min. Unfortunately the game's DRM required a constant internet connection, and he got pretty fed up and decided to return the game. After a while he got around to trying a cracked version and was able to enjoy the full game without any interruptions. I think he just went straight to downloading for the next game they came out with, because he didn't feel like doing any research to find out if it had the same draconian DRM.

    Then again, GoG's point of view is kind of skewed. The great majority of their games are cheap, making them easy impulse buys. Since they're mostly older I bet the majority of people buying them are nostalgic adults who're willing to pay for something they remember as being really great. I kind of doubt the lack of DRM factors much into the decision for most buyers.

  9. I want to agree, I really do by Benfea · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As a legitimate consumer, I hate DRM with a burning passion because I'm the one getting punished for the actions of pirates, while pirates get to enjoy a DRM-free experience. I want to believe this is true, but unfortunately, I cannot let myself engage in argument from consequence logical fallacies nor indulge in confirmation bias. I look at the evidence, and the evidence (to my knowledge) says that DRM-free games get pirated at about the same rate as DRM games.

    Someone please prove me wrong.

  10. Re:DRM benefits one party, and it's not the buyer by Nemyst · · Score: 5, Insightful

    DRM only benefits one party, and that's the DRM software provider.

  11. too late... by dhaines · · Score: 5, Interesting

    DRM didn't drive me to pirate games, it drove me to give up gaming entirely.

    Even on a console, the hassles were just too much.

    Game publishers think they're in the game business. They're in the fun business. If they figure out how to sell hassle-free fun on any of my several mainstream computing platforms, I will give them money. But the longer they fail, the less likely they are to ever interest me again.

  12. Re:DRM by billcopc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'll give you partial credit, it's true that the absurd number of AV false positives leads to desensitization, but that blame rests squarely on the AV developers for purposefully flagging anything that looks like a crack or keygen (seems to revolve around API calls for the odd-shaped windows and chiptune playback). That said, viruses are a rarity on "official" pirate channels, since it only takes one infected victim to warn all the others and get the uploader banned (or plonked). Of course, for those getting stuff second-hand from public sites like TPB or old-school p2p such as Limewire, that social enforcement does not apply.

    The alternative is to rely on mainstream web sites such as the GameCopyWorld and MegaGames, which have been publishing No-CD cracks for over a decade, and while they have accidentally posted infected files in the past (rarely), they are quick to remove them once identified.

    Also keep in mind that today's viruses are usually benign - annoying, but non-destructive - they install some fraudware to run on startup, which either hijacks passwords/financial info, or tries to sell you a fake anti-virus to remove the infection (again stealing your CC info). It's not like the ones we used to write in the Dos days, since back then we didn't have the internet, thus no way to courier stolen data back to the author, so most viruses would simply append themselves to every EXE or COM file and slowly corrupt your entire system out of sheer sociopathic boredom.

    --
    -Billco, Fnarg.com
  13. Re:I absolutely agree with them by heypete · · Score: 3, Informative

    Steam requires that you be online once to validate the license. After that, you can go into "offline mode" for as much as you please. It's pretty transparent, and hasn't been a problem for me.

    Personally, I prefer buying games on Steam: automatic patches, frequent discounts for various games on Steam, in-game voice/text chat, Valve Anti-Cheat on many multiplayer games (while not perfect, it's better than nothing), and not having to deal with license keys and physical media are major perks for me.

    Is there DRM? Sure. Is it far less obnoxious than the stuff on other games (I'm looking at you, Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory)? Definitely.

  14. Re:Pipe Dream by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    l2 play games. dozens of hours is most definately a thing of the past. now they want you to spend $50+ for a game that you can completely conquer in 6-8 hours. back in the day games were created that took so long to complete you just plain never got around to it, now the company spends eleventy billion dollars on 16 minutes of cinematic footage that, if you're honest the vast vast majority of you press every button on your controller or keyboards to skip it. we need less "video cut scene designer guy" and way way way less "poorly trained sales/management types that think theres actually some kind of effective drm available on this planet/ greedmaster guy" and replace those with "guy who makes the character actually walk properly on the ground and not slide like gumby guy", "old timey manager that understands that you make a quality product and people will want to give you their money instead of having to trick them", and a S--t Ton more cowbell

  15. Not just games- any software by Tooke · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In high school I used rosetta stone to learn Russian. incidentally, it was around the same time I started trying out linux. Due to teaching myself drive partitioning and my own inexperience, I really screwed up my hard drive a couple times. So I would have to re-install everything, including rosetta stone. I didn't know it at the time, but it came with exactly two licences, so the internet activation only worked twice. After the third time when I found that out, I ended up calling their technical support. After spending 30 minutes on the phone with a hard-to-understand foreign person, I still wasn't getting anywhere. He said I'd have to provide proof of purchase (which I didn't have, because the school bought the software) and maybe he'd be able to get me another licence.

    I was pretty fed up at that point, so I decided for the first time to give piracy a try. It was perfectly ethical; I was just trying to be able to use the software that had already been paid for. I couldn't believe how simple it was, just download a small crack from the pirate bay, and everything worked perfectly. DRM was the very thing that introduced me to piracy. I personally still wouldn't take anything without paying for it, but I can easily see how someone might start pirating their media solely because of DRM.

    --
    Anybody want a peanut?
  16. Re:I absolutely agree with them by 24-bit+Voxel · · Score: 3, Informative

    So steam was the problem in step 4. Every other step the problem was with the shitty game company you bought from.

  17. true and then some by Tom · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I know I've downloaded No-CD fixed .exe files for games that I actually bought. If that doesn't tell the game publishers something, I don't know what will.

    I've been saying this for years: If you want to lose the "war on piracy", the absolutely best way of doing that is making the legal, bought copy less convenient than the pirate copy.

    If one option you have is to go to a brick-and-mortar store, or order a CD/DVD online and wait for 1-2 days, paying some $50, then paying some more for DLC that really should've been in the main release, then spend 10 minutes entering a 243-character ID number badly printed on the inside of the case, half covered by some advertisement sticker, then have to enter your private details that they have no business of knowing, registering some online account, and having to have an active Internet connection every time you want to play, so the rootkit they installed can check you're legit, after crashing your PC a couple times and requiring you to uninstall a few perfectly legal and useful tools because it has decided they're evil...

    Or, you go to some random torrent site, download three seperate releases because you know at least one is fake, but the other two are fine, have all the DRM crap removed, and you're up and running within a few hours and without all the hassle...

    Seriously, which option would a rational being choose? Ignore the legal and moral, because if you feel compelled to "do the right thing", that's not a rational decision.

    Yes, I am exaggerating, but not really all that much. Fact is that for way too many games these days, the torrent is simply more convenient, less hassle, less invasive(!).

    And, as I keep telling to game publishers, you can't change the pirates' side of the equation. You can change yours.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  18. Re:What a load of crap by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People pirate software because they are cheap, unethical bastards.

    Yes ... No ... Please don't throw around the word people like you speak for all of us when you have no clue about our motivations. Sure there's plenty of people who pirate because they are cheap, there's plenty of others who pirate for other reasons too. Like the last game I pirated, It costs a whole $0.99 for Angry Birds Rio on Amazon, and I'm sure as hell not that cheap. Actually seems they've released an ad supported version too but fuck em. When they released it they released it Amazon exclusive. On the release date Amazon offered the paid version for free to celebrate. After spending 20 minutes downloading the amazon fucking downloader only to be greeted by a "this service is only available to USA customers" notice I snapped. I intend to pirate the next 10 Rovio games that come out just so I gain the 20 minutes of my fucking life they wasted back.

    I would have had no problem with the ad supported version. I would have had no problem with paying even $5 for that game. But no, the endless hoops consumers need to jump through these days just makes it no longer worth while. Why don't they release games world wide at the same time? Why do I need to have the DVD of the game in the drive to play when it has been installed on the harddisk? What do you mean you won't send me another disk when the game I bought got scratched in the drive? What now I need to be connected to the net to play the fucking single player game?

    You may be a cheap arse punk, but quite frankly my time is worth more than the effort it takes to do something legitimately these days. Steam is tolerable. Yes it's DRM, but it is in my view nice. The download system works, the games are stored on my computer, I don't HAVE a DVD drive in my computer for the games to complain about, I can play offline, and if I lose my media due to drive failure, or house burning down I can download the game again.

    Dear video games industry, If your games aren't distributed by an effort free content distribution system, and you do anything I think is not fair, or the game is not available to download from your website, expect that I will find it by some other means, your shit has wasted enough of my life.

    And to you Dave, fuck you for calling me cheap.