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Japan Raises Nuclear Plant Crisis Severity To 7

darkonc writes "Early Tuesday in Japan, the government decided to raise the severity level of the accident to the maximum 7 on an international scale, up from the current 5 and matching that of the 1986 Chernobyl catastrophe. The government declared the level 7 emergency because it is now estimated that the crippled plant was emitting over 10,000 terabecquerels of radioactivity for a number of hours at the height of the nuclear incident. Previously, on Monday, the government had expanded the evacuation zone around the plant to include at least 6 cities up to 60 km away from the plant. These cities, outside of the current 20-30 km evacuation area, are now expected to exceed the 20 millisieverts/year limit on residual radiation established by International Commission on Radiological Protection and the International Atomic Energy Agency in the case of an emergency."

46 of 673 comments (clear)

  1. And some people still wonder why... by sincewhen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And some people still wonder why the public are opposed to nuclear power.

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    -- Braden's law of data: All data spends some of its lifetime in an excel spreadsheet.
    1. Re:And some people still wonder why... by DamienRBlack · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This crisis, bad as it is, is still just a drop in the bucket compared to what we may be doing to our atmosphere with coal. I'd take a world powered by nuclear any day. At least the problems with nuclear are local-ish.

    2. Re:And some people still wonder why... by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And some people still wonder why the public are opposed to nuclear power.

      Because it took a large earthquake, a very large tsunami, and corporate neglect to cause something that, while expensive, has resulted a casualty figure that is lower than what is seen in a day in Libya. On the other hand, it also shows that nuclear technology that is decades old can withstand all but the strongest of natural disasters. If anything, the public should be realizing that modern nuclear technology coupled with real, effective corporate compliance and government monitoring would make nuclear energy extremely safe and productive. This is what the media should be talking about, instead they are fear mongering and spreading any rumor they can find that bumps up ratings, regardless of the veracity of those rumors. A wonder indeed.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    3. Re:And some people still wonder why... by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Local-ish, like me, in my hometown 1000 miles from Chernobyl, not being able to collect mushrooms due to Strontium contamination, today? I completely agree that coal has to go, but hopefully, nuclear will be only a temporary solution, to be phased out for renewables in the next decades.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    4. Re:And some people still wonder why... by Anrego · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nuclear accidents are a lot like train derailments and airplane crashes.

      Statistically, air and train (and nuclear) are very safe but when something goes wrong, it’s very dramatic. Even looking at very conservative statistics for death vs power generated, coal is much, much worse it just kills people at a slow, steady rate such that it seems normal and doesn't get headlines.

    5. Re:And some people still wonder why... by shic · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I am broadly in favour of nuclear energy - in principle. In practice, I have faith in neither corporate compliance nor government monitoring. Neither entity is equipped, or motivated, to appropriately manage long term risk... and that means you can good as guarantee failures. Hysteria about nuclear contamination, IMHO, has made matters worse - encouraging officials to focus exclusively upon reassuring the public that there is "no risk" at the expense of a focus on restricting and mitigating the consequences of the (ultimately inevitable) eventual accident.

    6. Re:And some people still wonder why... by Kokuyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Talking about 'nuclear' as if there was exactly one fuel and one reactor design involved is like thinking a Prius, a Tesla and a '69 Corvette all work the same way.

      Maybe, just maybe, the answer doesn't lie behind the question of whether we want nuclear power or not. Perhaps we should think about nuclear alternatives. I still say "Yay for LFTR!"

    7. Re:And some people still wonder why... by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Are we allowed be against 1950s bomb-maker-reactors and for newer no-accident-possible-and-practically-no-residue reactors?

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      No sig today...
    8. Re:And some people still wonder why... by fridaynightsmoke · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Are you a shill for the nuclear industry? An astroturfer? Because that's the only reason I can think for such a stupid comment. I'm tired of all the pro-nuclear wankers on slashdot. Fine, coal is bad and we should try to replace it ASAP. But your relativism doesn't make nuclear desirable. It is another bad (and probably worse) energy source because it is INHERENTLY DANGEROUS!

      I'd take a world powered by nuclear any day.

      And if you replaced all of the coal-fired power plants around the world with nuclear, how many accidents do you think we would be having annually? How many major disasters would it take for you to admit it is a bad idea, because while it *can* be safe, it never *would* be safe.

      At least the problems with nuclear are local-ish.

      Fucking moron.

      Ahem;

      Are you a shill for the wind power industry? An astroturfer? Because that's the only reason I can think for such a stupid comment.
      I'm tired of all the anti-nuclear wankers on Slashdot.
      Your "INHERENTLY DANGEROUS!" nonsense doesen't mean a damn, because a 40 year old power station was hit by an enourmous earthquake, then an enourmous tsunami; no-one died, and the surrounding area is roughly as polluted as would be caused by the average oil refinery fire.

      Hell, there WAS a big refinery fire nearby too; but that got ignored because the scary nuc-ular power plant is spitting out some radioisotopes that will at most present a tiny cancer risk for people locally, and has made the surrounding area roughly as radioactive as being on a goddamn aeroplane.

      As someone else on here has already pointed out, there was an oil rig disaster last year which has actually killed people and has polluted a wider area more severely than Fukushima has. No-one said "oil is INHERENTLY DANGEROUS!" and called for all oil production worldwide to end. They said "Christ, they should be more careful with that stuff" which indeed they should. The same applies with this.

      Everything in the world is inherently dangerous in some way or another. RIGHT NOW you're sitting mere inches from mains electricity that could kill you, and indeed kills hundreds of people every year in a country near you. You don't raise merry hell about that. Statistically, major incidents included, nuclear remains the safest form of electricity production known, including safe and cuddly solar, hydro, wind etc.

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    9. Re:And some people still wonder why... by squizzar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You mean the politicking stops and someone either shuts them down or replaces them? At the moment no-one wants to deal with losing the fairly significant contribution that nukes make to our energy supplies, presumably the lights going out is a vote-loser, but no-one wants to build newer safer ones, presumably because it's a vote loser. The most stupid thing about the situation is that the middle ground is the most dangerous - blocking progress and the development and construction of better safer plants and meaning the older plants get lifetime extensions.

    10. Re:And some people still wonder why... by Chrisq · · Score: 4, Funny

      It sort of does when you make the comment using a computer that uses electricity, at least over short-medium terms.

      I'm peddling like hell to run this laptop you insensitive clod.

    11. Re:And some people still wonder why... by shilly · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, I don't think shutting them down or replacing them makes sense.

      Industrial gear is regularly in operation for many decades, especially when it's expensive. Trains and planes are often kept going for 30+ years, for example. Buildings often have lifespans in the centuries. No-one is going to invest in a nuclear powerplant that has to be ripped down after 20 years because it's outdated, not least because decommissioning costs a bloody fortune due to the large amounts of waste that have to be dealt with. Nuclear plants are routinely expected to operate for 30+ years. It's just unrealistic to expect that we're going to see widescale decommissioning of large numbers of 1970s and 1980s reactors, due to the economics alone.

    12. Re:And some people still wonder why... by fridaynightsmoke · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Show me one incident of a refinery fire that required a decades-long evacuation of thousands of square kilometers, then we talk.

      If refinery fires had the same evacuation criteria in terms of actual risk to people, they would all require extensive evacuation. Sooty oil smoke is plenty carcinogenic, and I would bet good money that the "statistically noticeable cancer risk area" would be at least as large for a refinery fire as it is for Fukushima right now.

      The whole thing is a caution-outrage spiral; public concern creates the need for immensely cautious evacuation, which creates more public concern. People are always concerned about any risk from radiation, whereas some 20% of the population subject themselves to a quite large risk from intentionally inhaling smoke for a buzz. That's why a cloud of radioiodine that might give 20 extra people cancer creates global panic, while a cloud of oil smoke that might give 20 extra people cancer doesn't.

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    13. Re:And some people still wonder why... by Talderas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let us build new ones to replace the old ones we all want to decommission and then we can talk. You don't just decommission any power plant without the ability to support the loss of that plant generation capability until the new plant can be brought online.

      If you're going to replace two 400Mw coal plants with a 1Gw nuclear plant you do not shut down and decommission the two coal plants before building the nuclear plant. You run those coal plants, on extensions if necessary, until the nuclear plant up, running, done all of it's shake down, and is officially online. Then you take down the coal plants.

      Power plants are not short term infrastructure and I'm not aware of any cost-efficiency energy generation techniques that can fill a gap provided by a base load plant.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    14. Re:And some people still wonder why... by Mindcontrolled · · Score: 4, Informative

      As the saying goes, you are entitled to your opinion, but not to your own facts. Concentrated solar thermal can drive steam turbines, molten salt storage can buffer the nighttime. Here's one tiny, insignificant manufacturer.

      --
      Ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    15. Re:And some people still wonder why... by russotto · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What most nuclear huggers seems to disregard is that most nuclear plants are old and way past their date for decomission. Dismantle those and then we talk.

      Let the "nuclear huggers" build some replacements and THEN start dismantling the old ones. Otherwise the "huggers" are going to think, not without reason, that once the old plants are dismantled, the only talk will consist of "NO!".

    16. Re:And some people still wonder why... by vlm · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'd be curious about whether a pebble bed reactor would have fared better.

      Probably "about" as risky but completely different failure modes. The pebbles are brittle and are going to have issues with a severe earthquake, unlike literally "depth charge proof" light water reactors. If the pebbles don't crack and no coolant leaks, they are harmless. One or the other fails, still harmless. Both simultaneously fail, instant Chernobyl because its yet another graphite moderated design. Once you set one (or a couple) pebbles on fire, it gets hot enough to catch all the pebbles despite the coating, so you gotta spray it down, which means thermal stress will crack em all, making a bigger fire or at least a heck of a mess.

      Most exciting failure mode for a pebble bed would probably be chilling the graphite moderator (tsunami? Pump in sea water?), which eliminates doppler broadening, which turns the power WAY up, at least momentarily. Pop those little tennis balls like popcorn. Then all that red hot graphite can boil off the water and/or make old fashioned town-gas (mostly carbon monoxide gas) which explodes the containment, then the burning graphite roasts all the fission products into the air. Yeah it would be pretty bad.

      So the lesson learned from Chernobyl is don't use a flammable moderator. (except, apparently, for the pebble bed fans)

      The lesson from Japan is going to be don't use flammable cladding, and who cares what the alternatives do to the neutron balance.

      The good news, is once we utterly ban flammable cladding, there's not much in a core that's still flammable, so our problems are pretty much over.

      I suppose we need one more good fire / meltdown of a uranium carbide fueled reactor so we can ban carbide fuel. Then we're all good...

      Without the fire / explosion, the Japan thing would still be a complete economic loss, but there would be no contamination outside the containment structure.

      --
      "Science flies us to the moon. Religion flies us into buildings." - Victor Stenger
    17. Re:And some people still wonder why... by Kokuyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have yet to talk to any pro-nuclear person that is against shutting off old reactors in favour of new ones.

      We've just been polarized... if an anti-nuclear person hears me saying I am pro, they believe, just like you do, I am in love with the way it is. That's bullshit. The way it is is freaking dangerous. But as long as we nuclear-huggers aren't allowed to replace our aged 386 reactors with shiny new Core i7 reactors and no alternative means of generating energy (that DON'T have MASSIVE disadvantages when built for this amount of power generation)appear on the horizon, how on earth do you propose we go on?

      Is it really, truly a good idea to jump the shark just to get rid of these reactors? Couldn't we just, for once, stick our heads together and come to a good decision? You know, as in though through?

    18. Re:And some people still wonder why... by MightyYar · · Score: 3, Informative

      And some people still wonder why the public are opposed to nuclear power.

      I don't wonder why. I see a media that gets readership/viewership with sensationalist headlines. I see a nuclear industry that feels backed into a corner and so releases pro-nuclear statements that are laughable in any context, let alone in the midst of one of the worst nuclear accidents of all time.

      But at the end of the day, the facts are these:
      1. The direct cause of this nuclear accident was a catastrophic earthquake and tsunami.
      2. The earthquake/tsunami has killed thousands - maybe 20,000 when all is said and done. The nuclear accident has killed 0. In the long term, it probably has shortened the lives of some plant workers. I'm sure it will get blamed for a couple of hundred cancers.
      4. The earthquake/tsunami has caused hundreds of BILLIONS of dollars in damage. It will take decades to rebuild. The nuclear accident will probably take 10 years or so and hundreds of MILLIONS of dollars to clean up.

      In other words, in the context of the greater disaster, Fukushima is a mess and complicates reconstruction and rescue - but it is not really comparable in numeric terms. We should certainly learn lessons from it and retrofit plants using these lessons - and close those that can't be fixed. But abandon nuclear power? In favor of what? Coal?

      --
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    19. Re:And some people still wonder why... by fridaynightsmoke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      In Norway nearly 100% of the electrical power used and produced is from renewable energy. The government of Sweden has started working on getting the country completely independent of oil (without building more nuclear power plants). Norway, England, Italy, the US and others have started to look into floating (deep water) offshore wind power as a future energy source.

      Wake up and smell the coffee. Comparing nuclear to coal is fucking bullshit.

      Perhaps after a few billion years the whole world might have plentiful fijords and geography suitable for large scale hydro, then we might all benefit from it in the same way that Norway and Sweden do. Until then they're a complete red herring.

      As for offshire wind, great; we just need to crack the whole energy demand - windy period mismatch, or the epic civil engineering challenge and power losses from having an intercontinental supergrid to even things out, then we're all set.

      --
      This is a substitute for a clever sig that fits within the maximum number of characters.
    20. Re:And some people still wonder why... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      400 sq/km of standard PV cells will match the current global generating capacity (~13TW).

      No, actually it can't.

      13 terawatts divided over 400,000,000 square meters requires that each square meter produce 32.5 KW of electricity.

      Alas, the Sun only puts a bit more than ONE KW of solar energy on each square meter.

      And solar panels aren't 100% efficient at turning light into electricity.

      So, ignoring night, clouds, and downtime, you're still off by a factor of around 100. When you include night, clouds, and downtime, you're off by a factor of 1000 or so.

      Good try, though.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    21. Re:And some people still wonder why... by DamienRBlack · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the original poster meant 400 km square. As in 400 km x 400 km. Or 400,000 x 400,000 meters. That is 160,000,000,000 square meters, I'm sure you can see where that factor of 1000 is hiding now. 400 km x 400 km is a lot of space, but once again, not exactly the the entire world. For example, not one would miss 400 x 400 kilometers of Kansas.

    22. Re:And some people still wonder why... by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You think we've reached the height of human folly with coal? Well, just wait and see what a crash effort to build our way out of our entirely foreseeable future energy problems can do with nuclear power. And that crash course is coming, because if there's one thing you can count on people faced with a difficult and intractable problem to do, it is absent-mindedly kicking the can down the road until they have to desperately grasp for a quick fix.

      That's why I'm *for* building a modest number of nuclear power plants based on new designs *now*. What goes down, comes up. Today the public is down on nuclear power. When oil hits $200/bbl or more with no return in sight, then all will be forgiven and forgotten. Better to continue to gain knowledge in the technology *before* it's needed. Better to spend a few decades of bickering over the problems of nuclear power than to wait until we're in such desperate straits that even bringing those problems up makes you an enemy of the people.

      I have watched every single president since Richard Nixon declare that dependency of foreign oil is a serious threat to the United States, and I've watched every president since Richard Nixon fail to do anything about that threat, because it's easier to hand that hot potato to the next President. Nuclear is coming, one way or the other, because as a species we don't have the discipline to tackle problems we can avoid.

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    23. Re:And some people still wonder why... by mdsolar · · Score: 3, Informative

      About 46% of US generation can be replaced by rooftop solar given available residential roof space. But, net metering policy which confiscates excess power generation without compensation probably limits this source to 22%. http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/08/roof-pitch.html Feed in tariffs would remove the artificial barrier. The price for panels now is about $2/Watt and will fall below $0.5/Watt before half of that capacity is installed. Installation may get down to $1/Watt as panels get lighter and more efficient. Inverters are about $0.5/Watt now and will go lower. So, a typical price for the bulk of installations will be below $2/Watt. Nuclear power plant construction costs $12/Watt and the cost is increasing. Not considering fuel costs and operating expenses for nuclear, and factoring in availability assuming similar life times, rooftop solar costs about 60% of the cost of nuclear. Desert solar likely costs less than half of nuclear.

    24. Re:And some people still wonder why... by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Darling, just a few hundred kilometers to the east, here in Finland we have hydro power plants on about every available river.

      They generated a total of 14.6% of country's electricity in year 2010. Even with 4 nukes, lots of coal, gas, biomass, etc power plants, we still have to buy electricity from Tsernobyl-type reactors at Sosnovy Bor for almost as much (12.0%).

      So please, don't talk about things you know nothing about. Thank you.

  2. Right Now It's a 7 by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think using a scale based on 'the worst nuclear disaster so far' isn't a great idea. Do we add #8 'Fukushima' to the scale if it gets any worse?

    1. Re:Right Now It's a 7 by ratnerstar · · Score: 4, Funny

      My nuclear meltdown scale goes to 11.

      It's one worse.

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      Just because you sold your soul to the devil that needn't make you a teetotaler. --The Devil and Daniel Webster
    2. Re:Right Now It's a 7 by Talderas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Congratulations. You hit on why the INES scale is deeply flawed.

      I'm going to point to this news article which explains far more in depth as to why the Level 7 was chosen. After reading it, you should realize that Fukushima is not as bad as Chernobyl. Here's some summary facts.

      The Level 7 was chosen solely based on the total cumulative release of radioactive isotopes over the course of a month. Chernobyl's release was mostly due to the radioactive plume that was ejected during a one time event.

      The Level 7 covers seven locations. Units 1-4 at Daiichi and three Units at Daiini. Each of these doesn't class over a Level 5 on the INES scale.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
  3. Re:Japanese whispers by WaywardGeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And people on slashdot.org read that Japan has already released 10% as much radioactive material as Chernobyl, and somehow it's all a liberal scare. BP has the worst oil spill in US history, yet somehow this is a non-issue for the environment. And somehow, this is all related to tax breaks for the rich, and building up our military. Group think in full swing.

    --
    Celebrate failure, and then learn from it - Nolan Bushnell
  4. why are it the bulk of slashdot comments by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Insightful

    about fukushima always minimizing, belittling, or otherwise dismissing what is happening here as hysteria or science illiteracy?

    it seems like a form of denial to me

    we're talking about the end of nuclear power in japan, and perhaps elsewhere

    if you don't understand why, you really are in denial, and you don't understand risk analysis

    it's not hysteria going on here. really

    --
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    1. Re:why are it the bulk of slashdot comments by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Insightful

      i'm not talking about this thread alone. in every story that comes up about fukushima on slashdot, you see comments modded up that:

      1. how fukushima is no big deal, its media hype and confusion
      2. how fukushima was easily avoidable, so therefore, its ok
      3. how events like this are really rare. so nuclear power is ok
      4. how nuclear is really really safe compared to other sources, and science illiterates are just hysterical

      repeat after me: denial, denial, denial, denial

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    2. Re:why are it the bulk of slashdot comments by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Interesting

      ... you don't understand risk analysis

      Are the anti-nuclear crowd going to drive their cars to the protest? After letting the TSA spend billions of dollars to trample their rights on the flight over there? And receiving a decent dose of radiation on that flight.

      Tell me again about "risk analysis" and how good the average person is at it...

      it's not hysteria going on here. really

      Uhuh.

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      No sig today...
    3. Re:why are it the bulk of slashdot comments by multipartmixed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most of these comments are subsets of what I see as the truth:

      1. Fukushima *is* a big deal
      2. But it's not going to actually ruin the planet
      3. So take the lessons we've learned, and improve all plants to make this type of disaster far less likely
      4. Continue to build nuclear until there are better choices
      5. Continue to research better choices

      #5 is the most important in the long run, and the Fukushima accident HELPS us understand that. In fact, this disaster is a disaster for Japan, but a great boon to the world, as it helps us better understand what we are doing.

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
  5. watch this video by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    You can't really put things into perspective until you look at this video:

    http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/04/12/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1

    A few filmmakers went into the evacuation zone. Watch how those geiger counters are going ballistic miles from the plant. Whole cities are going to be ghost towns for our lifetime for sure.

    1. Re:watch this video by Ptur · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is a prime example of journalists creating hysteria based on their ignorance. The scale on their device never went over 100uS/hr - that's MICRO-Sieverts.... To put this in perspective, read http://xkcd.com/radiation/

      They never risked their lives at all

    2. Re:watch this video by GreatBunzinni · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you pay attention to the scale in those geiger counters you will notice that although it makes a lot of noise it measures radiation in micro sieverts. The geiger counter made the most noise at 15 micro Sieverts. In comparison, an airplane flight from LA to NY earns you 40 micro Sieverts.

      If we rig a thermometer with a siren when temperature hits 30C then it will also sound dangerous. That doesn't make it a danger to your health.

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    3. Re:watch this video by ZZane · · Score: 4, Informative

      100uS/hr = 2.4mSv per day = 876mSv/year

      So while the journalists didn't risk their lives with that dose, it's definitely not a livable area at those radiation levels. However, depending on the source of the radiation those levels could go down fairly quickly or it could remain at those levels for quite a long time. Of course that assumes no further contamination from the plant.

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  6. Re:Tsunami: 22,000 dead - nuclear, how many exactl by Synn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actually it's because we can't do all that much against natural disasters. I live in Florida and "Death by Hurricane" is sort of the deal you make to live here.

    But we don't have to mismanage nuclear power, or focus our (distant) future on it.

  7. Luckily (for us) it is happening in Japan by Pascal+Sartoretti · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just imagine one second this type of accident in China...

  8. Thoughts and Prayers to the Japanese by AndyMcL · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Japan is a great country and the Japanese wonderful people. I lived there in the 90's and loved it. They are showing tremendous resolve and strength during a natural disaster that just keeps on going. It seems like almost everyday I see a headline of yet another 7.x aftershock. Yet they are repairing their infrastructure at an incredible rate and keeping as much control over what they can better than anyone.

    If and when the US has another natural disaster, I hope we can come somewhere close to what they are doing. The Japanese people's efforts are not only helping Japan, but much of the world. Many critical components and products for many industries are made or flow through Japan. If Japan were to stop or slow down noticeably, it would seriously affect economies all over the world including the US.

    -Andy

  9. Re:Japanese whispers by Rakshasa+Taisab · · Score: 3, Informative

    Except one blew lots of plutonium and other fun stuff into the atmosphere, while the other has released mostly radioactive iodine and cesium.

    --
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  10. Re:Japanese whispers by GooberToo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Except ignorant scaremongering frequently prevails over truth and reason. Not all radioactive releases are equal. The source of the radiation is as important as where its released and how it was released.

    The reality is, the current rating is based on radiation at the source NOT its comparability in scope to Chernobyl. That's not to say they will never or can never be comparable, only that comparisons to Chernobyl at this point is pure idiocy and scaremongering - classic anti-nuclear propaganda.

  11. energy density is a red hearing. by Weezul · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We expect the world population will be in decline by mid century, due to the liberation of women, access to birth control, etc. If given the option, women prefer having fewer children and investing more effort in each child. It follows that our overall world consumption could eventually be covered by reasonable usage of wind, wave, solar, and geothermal.

    There are large wind turbines that power 500 homes already, for example. Yes, it'll require several ass wind turbines standing above every suburb to power both that suburb and the city, but hey the burb's always did suck anyways. Also, there is much faster technological progress on wind, wave, and solar than civilian nuclear because they exist at scales that human handle better.

    Btw, aircraft, spacecraft, and ships are our only vehicles that fundamentally require high energy density. All our current car designs require high energy density too, but a ground level power standard for highways could solve that problem for electric cars.

    Are you familiar with what most infrastructure projects look like after a couple decades in operation? Nuclear power simply doesn't give enough room for the inevitable screw ups. You simply cannot trust either governments or private enterprise to handle the task long term. You could mandate that the family of every power plant owner and worker lived inside the plant, but you'd still find people dangerously cutting corners.

    There will for example be another Chernobyl coming down the line in Bulgaria's nuclear industry now that they're completely run by organized crime. ( see http://wlcentral.org/node/1568 http://wlcentral.org/node/1495 http://wlcentral.org/node/1488 ) Italy's mafiaa has also decided it wants some part of the nuclear power pie. Do you remember when the garbage was piling up in Naples?

    --
    The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
  12. Re:Bring on the nuclear applogists by gilleain · · Score: 3, Informative

    Plutonium does not exist naturally on earth, it's extremely toxic, and it lasts for millions of years.

    From wikipedia: "Plutonium is the heaviest primordial element (see also primordial nuclide), by virtue of its most stable isotope, plutonium-244, whose half-life of about 80 million years is just long enough for the element to be found in trace quantities in nature." It exists in nature because it lasts for millions of years.

  13. Re:The Reg posted an article by DrJimbo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Guardian posted an excellent rebutal to this point of view by Helen Caldicott: How Nuclear Apologists Mislead the World Over Radiation . The article you linked dismissed this article disparagingly with a three word ad hominem attack: "mad Auntie Fear" without addressing, let alone countering, any of her arguments. Instead, the Register article repeats the very mistakes Caldicott had identified.

    Helen Caldicott is a medical doctor. She taught pediatrics at the Harvard Medical School for two years before turning her focus to researching and reporting the health hazards of nuclear power.

    OTOH, Lewis Page (assuming it is the same Lewis Page):

    ... served as an officer in the Royal Navy from 1993 to 2004, and is now an author and authority on military matters.

    You can also get an idea of his expertise by looking at his other articles at the Register.

    It is amazing that you think the article by Lewis Page is authoritative since he has absolutely no expertise on the subject; he totally ignores criticism from a person who is an authority; and he dismisses the authority with a rude ad hominem attack. OTOH, his level of discourse would fit right in with the irrational, faith-based pro-nuclear advocacy here on Slashdot.

    --
    We don't see the world as it is, we see it as we are.
    -- Anais Nin
  14. Re:Details by Rei · · Score: 3, Insightful

    For the 8,672nd time, nuclear disasters are disasters in slow motion. Big wave comes up, slams into shore, retreats. A couple followup waves and it's done. Radiation exposure, however, keeps tick, tick, ticking. You can run from a disaster in slow motion. So few people tend to die in nuclear disasters. But what you can't do is pretend that they didn't happen, to ignore them. If you don't leave, *then* you get sick and die. You have to abandon the cities, you have to stop the farming nearby, the ranching, the fishing, etc. You have to put tremendous efforts into containment, or all of that gets even worse. Hence, nuclear disasters tend to be not about deaths, but about hardship, fear, and huge economic losses.

    Oh, and FYI, wind turbines are extremely earthquake-resistant. The towers are way overbuilt in order to withstand the wind loading, and their shapes tend to be excellent for damping.

    --
    ..my sister, who got the Donnie Darko numbers tattooed on her arm so she looks like shes making fun of Holocaust victims