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Microsoft Counts Down To XP Death
mikejuk writes "Microsoft have just released an end-of-support countdown gadget that ticks off the days until XP is no longer supported — but it only runs under Vista or Windows 7! It focuses the mind on the fact that XP is being forcibly retired. It is a wake-up call to think hard about the unpleasant situation and consider the alternatives.So as you watch the count down to XP's death tick by think about the problems created by using software that actually belongs to someone else..."
does it work under wine?
So then buy from Redhat, or Ubuntu or whoever. Lots of folks will provide support for FOSS software. This is an old piece of FUD you are spewing here.
Windows XP is almost 10 years old. Find me a Linux distro that supports 10 year old versions, on the desktop.
No one cried foul when Windows 98 was EOLed, after only 8 years. That was because they liked XP. Microsoft has pushed back the EOL on Windows XP multiple times due to complaints, but it's time to move on.
If you dislike Vista and 7, use something a different operating system. Don't pretend Microsoft should support 10 year old software.
But if you can't do it yourself, being dependent on RedHat or Ubuntu really isn't any better than being dependent on Microsoft other than philosophical differences which really don't enter into a business decision.
We've seen people taking advantage of that option (for somewhat different reasons) just recently with OpenOffice, and for KDE3 there is the Trinity "fork".
Regarding "Ownership" though - I completely agree, just because MS stops support doesn't mean you can not use the software anymore. Similarly Ubuntu or Redhat will also eliminate support for older versions at some point.
Yeah, good thing RedHat is still supporting all their releases... Oh ... wait ... no they're not. RedHat 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 - all gone. RedHat Enterprise Linux 1, 2, 3 & 4 - all gone. Gee, maybe retiring old versions of software is just ... universal?
What abuse of power? You can continue using XP for as long as you want; they don't magically make it stop working.
They are just saying they are not going to spend further time and money updating it. After almost 10 years this should have been expected seeing that most software isn't maintained nearly as long.
Total cost of ownerships figures are debatable, what is not is that with closed source sofware you do not decide your own IT strategy.
You just "do as told"..
If you like that, be their guest...
So in order to encourage you to upgrade Windows XP to a newer version, they create a countdown clock that only runs on systems you have already upgraded??? Is it called the "Schadenfreude Clock"?
With FOSS software when the programmers stop updating, new programmers fork the code and continue to update it.
This happened with X11, Open Office, etc etc. As a user of FOSS you can pretty much rest assured that the software you use will be supported so long as it fills a need or isn't replaced by something superior. It won't be abandoned even if you don't code, simply because other programmers can pick up the ball and keep going with the product.
Corporate software is much much more likely to become abandonware. Companies go out of business, their corporate goals change, a product may not be generating enough income, or they simply want to sell something new and shiny. Compare that to a product like Emacs. It was first released in the mid 70's and just had a new release last month. Odds are it'll still be around 30 years from now.
his is potentially good for the economy, because corporations across America will soon be forced to update the operating systems and IT departments may need to hire new techs for installations.
This is just another version of breaking windows (*sigh* just re-read this, the glass kind) being "good" for the economy because it caused people to buy windows and pay window repairmen. The "good" for the economy would be found instead in people switching to more efficient software, having less system downtime, and more security resulting in less spam/viruses wasting resources. But the simple forced switching causing companies to hire IT workers is not good for the economy.
Don't get me wrong, IT workers are important for a company, but you need to understand that all they do is lose a company money. Like HR, they usually don't produce product, they are on overhead. A good IT person can "save" a company huge sums of money by being efficient and lowering overhead and downtime company wide, but increasing IT budget is always a loss unless that increase is recouped by their ability to increase efficiencies elsewhere.
Good for the economy? Would you please look up "broken window fallacy"?
But in a nutshell, it's not of economic benefit to replace something that serves its purpose INSTEAD OF getting something new which serves a new purpose. The resources used "fixing the broken window" cannot then be used to, say, glaze a new window in a new store.
--PM
How the hell is a company choosing, after _13 years_, to no longer support a piece of software "abuse of power"?
Nobody's forcing you to uninstall XP. You'll just have to come to terms with the reality that at some point it will no longer be supported.
Dude, XP is over 10 years old. Please inform me which popular Linux desktop distro has backwards support for 10 year old packages?
XP was still on sale last year when I bought my netbook (now wiped and running Ubuntu). The date it was first released is meaningless.
It's very different, because there are multiple organisations that provide linux support and nothing to prevent new organisations springing up, while only one organisation provides windows support.
You wouldn't want to grow dependent on anything without there being a second source supplier who can step in if the first one fails. And similarly, multiple competing suppliers will result in better and cheaper service.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Ubuntu. You can just keep upgrading in place for 0. Debian is another, you could go get a 10 year old disk and if it would install dist-upgrade your way all the way up.
When did MS start giving XP users free win 7 disks?
You can upgrade that Ubuntu to the latest version for 0 GBP. People love to claim MS prices are in line, but they forget that they did not get a free win 7 disk in the mail.
You missed 95, 98, ME, 2000 and Vista off. Wouldn't make such a convincing argument then, would it?
XP has been supported for so long because they couldn't offer anything better so their customers (read corporates) insisted on them doing so. Being unable to get Vista/7 to run on Netbooks didn't help them either.
XP is dog-eared shit. It's so long in the tooth, that it regards SATA as an exotic technology.
Try installing from a CD onto a piece of post '04 hardware. It will often refuse to recognise disks, displays, and any network devices. Unless you have slipstreamed your own installer with several of the service releases, you must resort to sneaker-net from a working machine to supply the endless list of drivers. Thank God there is working USB 2.
Without a later SP, you cannot even connect to most wireless APs. WPA2 is a blocker, and it's pull a cable, or back to shipping hundreds of megabytes on your flash drive.
Then? Prepare, once you have connectivity, for the 100-odd updates and patches. I suggest you assume 3 hours and three reboots - with a fast network.
That people and organisations continue to prefer this situation to Vista or Win7 is a complete indictment of Microsoft and their utter failure to produce real value for users since 2001.
Apple is shooting through the roof. Corporations where I would see only HP or Lenovo are 20-30 % Mac! Mind you: this means buying from a company with no significant enterprise sales division and no spec customisation for large customers.
When people leave XP? They really want to leave Microsoft. Apple would still be selling single-digit percentages, had MS not so totally and arrogantly fucked their core business.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
This isn't entirely about updates. Once Microsoft disables the activation servers, you won't be able to install it anymore. From the article:
Now, obviously the guy writing the article doesn't know when MS will turn off the activation servers.
It's one thing to say you won't get updates ... it's another thing to say that you don't get to keep running the software in a lab for testing or extended support. I can only imagine that point of sale or other things with XP might linger for quite some time. If XP actually phones home to see if it's still allowed to run, it's theoretically possible those could just stop working (though I have nothing to support this suggestion).
At least with FOSS, you're still allowed to install something old and busted -- if MS turns off the activation servers, you might not be able to do that. In this case, "owned by someone else" refers to the ability to disable new installs, and possible basically lock out existing installs.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
RHEL desktop self-support subscription is $49 a year. Windows 7 Home Premium is $200. Cost is roughly equivalent on a 4-year upgrade cycle, though RHEL support gives you more than a Windows license does.
RHEL Workstation self-support subscription is $179/yr. Windows 7 Pro is $300. Ditto on the qualification re: getting more.
If you're looking at a standard subscription for RHEL Workstation, it's $299 a year. Compare to the same level of support from Microsoft: probably Technet Pro, which is $349 for the first year and $249 for renewals.
How is the parent spreading FUD when you're the one comparing apples to oranges? You're either misinformed, or being disingenuous. If it's the first, then I hope I've opened your eyes. If it's the latter, then GTFO.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Debian, with in place upgrades there is no need for a standing version. Gentoo as well. This whole one version thing is a hold over from proprietary licensing.
If you want to go that route XP has not been supported that long, XP SP1 is for instance no longer supported, I do not believe SP2 is either.
So what's going to happen to the online activation?
Long ago when XP came out there was an issue of what happens when XP gets killed and there's no more activation. I believe Microsoft claimed that they were going to release a patch to take away the activation before killing XP, but I don't know if that's even true. And if it's not, people may be in serious trouble when their XP thinks their new harddrive requires phoning home and Microsoft refuses to answer. Forced upgrades for everyone.
That's why I write my own OS, drivers and software. I also dug my own well in my backyard, bought a windmill-powered generator, built my own car, bake my own bread and only read stories that I wrote myself. Of course, with the latter, I usually have to wait about five years to forget the plot, but at least I know I'll like it.
Actually, I do bake my own bread, weather permitting.
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The windows license does not include support only updates. Phone support costs money, call MS and ask.
XP was forced onto netbooks because Vista, and 7 are to much for netbooks, and MSFT forced manufacturers to install bigger processors and actual hard drives to get XP onto those machines.
Remember the first netbooks were a lot like the ipad in terms of hardware. small flash memories(4-8 gb) low power processors etc all running Linux. MSFT realized the threat and extended XP's life because that was easier than cutting down windows 7 to fit on the first few Netbooks.
The only thing that really surprises me much any more is just how easy people forget reality and their own history.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
Just because Microsoft won't support XP, doesn't mean my company won't still be using 14+ year old software.
It's time for all coders to go over and give the guys at REACTOS a hand getting it out of Alpha.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
And if you read the license carefully you are entitled to 2 free support calls, after that you're billed € 250 excl. VAT per case just like the rest. That was the quote about 8 years ago, I don't think it has been lowered in the meantime. Of course this is only valid if you bought a full license.
The best weapon of a dictatorship is secrecy, but the best weapon of a democracy should be the weapon of openness.
Can you clear up the math for me?
150 / 12.75 = 11.76 GBP/year
0/5 = 0GBP/year.
To me the latter looks like a better deal.
The support packages you speak of are for things not included in an XP license, you know phone support.
Micro$oft is killing Windows XP only because not enough users have switched to something newer.
Per W3Schools, Windows XP is used on 42.9% of computers while Windows 7 is used on only 34.1%.
Per StatCounter, Windows XP is used on 47.32% of computers while Windows 7 is used on only 30.6%.
(Both sets of stats from March 2011.)
The major problem is that I use software with Windows XP that will not run on Windows 7. Those applications do exactly what I want, but there are no new versions for Windows 7. Not only will I have the expense of upgrading Windows, I will also have the expense of replacing otherwise good applications.
Case in point - Mint. It's perhaps the best version of Ubuntu that's available from a first-time user's standpoint as it comes with all of the basic codecs and sound drivers installed. I found it to simply put, work. The transition to it is no different than any other operating system, and shouldn't be much harder than going from XP to Windows 7 would be.
It's climbed to the #2 spot at Distrowatch for exactly this reason. There's really no reason other than maybe gaming, to be forced to have to deal with moving to Windows 7 any more. But since the PC games are almost all just console clones these days and offer few actual differences and advantages over a console, you can survive without most games these days as well. (ie - just buy your games on your console and leave the PC to doing computer-related tasks.)
Um...last time I checked there are around 73,357,145,315* companies in the world which will provide support for Micorosoft products
Last time I checked, there was one. And you probably couldn't afford it.
The problem here seems to be a misunderstanding of what 'support' means. Support means being able to get someone on the phone (or your favourite communications technology) and say 'this is broken, fix it,' and have them fix it. If your hardware or software configuration triggers a bug in the Windows 7 kernel causing it to crash, how many companies can offer support? One: Microsoft. A few other organisations have access to the source code, but none have the legal right to ship patches.
Now, if you're running Red Hat Enterprise Linux, and you have a bug like this, then you can get Red Hat to fix it if you have a support contract, but there are also many thousands of other companies willing to do the same work. For Linux and *BSD kernels, there are even individual consultants that a small business can afford to hire who will track down and fix a bug that only affects you. If you're in the same situation with regard to a Microsoft product and you're not a Fortune 500 company or a major government, you're pretty much out of luck.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
OK, let's be realistic:
http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=custom+linux+kernel+development+services&aq=f&aqi=g-v6g-j1g-b2&aql=&oq=#q=custom+linux+development+services&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&bih=632&biw=1012&fp=560fefca0938c389&hl=en
I bet you could find that one of these companies would be willing to help you with your RedHat 2 problems, for the right price. I also bet that it would be several orders of magnitude less than it would cost you to convince Microsoft to fix bugs in Windows 95, especially the pre-service pack 1 version that was contemporary with RedHat 2. You need to face up, it is not possible for the typical business, for any amount of money, to get fixes to old versions of Microsoft software, while it is possible, both in theory and in practice, to get fixes to old versions of most open-source software.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.
If I buy a brand new car, of a model whose current design is based on one initially released ten years ago, I absolutely still get a standard warranty with it. Indeed, this happens all the time, as refinements and superficial changes are added to an existing frame.
There are plenty of applications where there isn't even a network connection or multiple users or even changes to user software.
For them, loss of patches and updates isn't really a problem. What might be a problem is if it becomes impossible to activate the OS. I assume there are activation hacks out there, but if there aren't, then this event will cause them to become more widespread. Some people care more about the legal implications of this than others.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
If SuSe or Red Hat goes belly up tomorrow, or it's announced it will no longer be supported, you seriously expect that someone will *100% for sure* support it to the level required by an enterprise customer?
Well, considering that Oracle will do that very thing for RHEL right now, I'd say the answer is obviously yes.
Hey, I finally got my first freak! Took you long enough!
I laugh at your naive assessment that competing/alternate Linux vendors/contributors will support something that isn't theirs. If SuSe or Red Hat goes belly up tomorrow, or it's announced it will no longer be supported, you seriously expect that someone will *100% for sure* support it to the level required by an enterprise customer?
Yup. Because if RedHat won't, and Novell won't... I will.
That counts as one of the best features of Linux. Company-X might not have any desire to help you keep an old box running and secure. But unlike EOL'd Windows versions, if we hear about a new critical vulnerability today, by tomorrow a patch will exist; and unlike Windows (EOL'd or not), it doesn't matter if that vulnerability affects Solitaire or the deepest recesses of the kernel, a sufficiently knowledgeable user still has the power (and legal right) to repair it.
So yeah, in many cases, it might make more sense to upgrade to a newer version. But if you absolutely, positively need to keep an old Caldera 2.2 box up and running, and have enough money to throw at me, we can keep that sucker up and running until the Sun swallows the Earth.