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Microsoft Counts Down To XP Death
mikejuk writes "Microsoft have just released an end-of-support countdown gadget that ticks off the days until XP is no longer supported — but it only runs under Vista or Windows 7! It focuses the mind on the fact that XP is being forcibly retired. It is a wake-up call to think hard about the unpleasant situation and consider the alternatives.So as you watch the count down to XP's death tick by think about the problems created by using software that actually belongs to someone else..."
does it work under wine?
Doesn't *ALL* software "belong to someone else"? Even with FOSS software you depend on others to maintain it. If they stop, then you don't get updates. Now sure, you could theoretically go down to the local college and get a programming degree and learn to do it yourself--but how often does that REALLY happen? At least with MS, I know the software is going to be supported for several years, and not become adandonware because Jeremy got a new job and doesn't have time to update it anymore.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
Damn glad I stuck with Forth.
OS? I don't need no stinking OS...
Place nail here >+
So as you watch the count down to XP's death tick by think about the problems created by using software that actually belongs to someone else..."
Yes, you're better off with opensource. It's much nicer knowing software you depend on may be abandoned without notice.
Similes are like metaphors
Windows XP is almost 10 years old. Find me a Linux distro that supports 10 year old versions, on the desktop.
No one cried foul when Windows 98 was EOLed, after only 8 years. That was because they liked XP. Microsoft has pushed back the EOL on Windows XP multiple times due to complaints, but it's time to move on.
If you dislike Vista and 7, use something a different operating system. Don't pretend Microsoft should support 10 year old software.
Microsoft is trying to ensure the life of their company. XP is not bringing in the revenue for them any longer, so from their perspective it's time to move on. This is really bad for the consumers. People are happy with the product. Companies are saving $$$ by not replacing software and licenses.
This is potentially good for the economy, because corporations across America will soon be forced to update the operating systems and IT departments may need to hire new techs for installations. Conversely, companies may increase their IT budget but folks will not get raises or additional staff to help with ever demanding workloads.
Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
Even with FOSS software you depend on others to maintain it.
True, but with free software, you choose on whom to depend.
If they stop, then you don't get updates.
With free software, companies compete for you to depend on them. If they stop, you can switch to another company offering support for the product. True, an unpopular free software product is in the same boat as proprietary software with respect to end of life concerns, but the more popular ones have a wider choice of support options.
If free software on which your company and other companies depend ceases to be maintained, your companies can jointly start a consortium or foundation to maintain the software.
"True, but with free software, you choose on whom to depend."
Just like you can choose to depend on MS. BTW, which linux distro releases patches for 10 year old releases, I'm curious..
"...I think the Microsoft hatred is a disease." - Linus Torvalds
Maybe XP will save us from the end of the Mayan calendar!?!
What abuse of power? You can continue using XP for as long as you want; they don't magically make it stop working.
They are just saying they are not going to spend further time and money updating it. After almost 10 years this should have been expected seeing that most software isn't maintained nearly as long.
It's in three years. So plenty of time to find alternatives.
Talk about yet another way Microsoft has its head up its arse. They come out with this dumbass little program for you to remind you to wake up and move on but they require you have already moved on to one of their newer operating systems. Even one panned so completely they had to rush out yet another operating system release. Do they lock up those employees in the brain washing division for so long they no longer think straight? Sure seems like it and wouldn't doubt someone high up prays to some deity daily thanking her they still have a monopoly on the desktop. IMO
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Not even Red Hat most likely. And even if they did you'd be paying way more than the cost of what your Windows license was and you only get a single year of support! Whereas for the 100 dollars I paid for XP I got 5 years of free mainstream support and an additional 6 years of security fixes.
Apparently I only have 1082 days left to figure out the modelines on my MAME box's original arcade monitor. Given that I have already prevaricated for around 700 days, this is not good news to me...
Cheers,
Ian
So in order to encourage you to upgrade Windows XP to a newer version, they create a countdown clock that only runs on systems you have already upgraded??? Is it called the "Schadenfreude Clock"?
XP is not bringing in the revenue for them any longer...
Dude, XP is over 10 years old. Please inform me which popular Linux desktop distro has backwards support for 10 year old packages? There are LOTS of reasons to have issues with MS, but not supporting outdated 10 year old software forever is not one of them.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
For the 0 dollars I paid for Ubuntu I am now running the latest and greatest version, and will upgrade again in two weeks. With no reinstalls. Did MS mail you a free Win 7 disk?
It really is not an unpleasant situation.
First as someone who develops web applications used by for the financial sector, I'll be extremely grateful when the operating system with which Internet Explorer 6 is bundled becomes officially obsolete. Perhaps at last these firms will face up to the inevitable and upgrade, and we can stop spending a significant proportion of every development cycle dealing with this terrible browser.
Secondly, supporting XP requires resources. I would much rather MS used those resources (presumably these days derived from selling Windows 7) to innovate and support their modern products, rather than support a legacy operating system loved by very few, and loathed by many who have to work with it and its corollaries.
Even though I still much prefer my linux boxes, there's no denying that in Windows 7, Microsoft have finally built a decent operating system. Let's close the door on a bad memory.
"Has the rule of law degenerated into the rule of lawyers?" (Niall Ferguson)
"which linux distro releases patches for 10 year old releases, I'm curious.."
If you installed a 10 year old release of Debian you could likely update it to the current release version with no problems.
How the hell is a company choosing, after _13 years_, to no longer support a piece of software "abuse of power"?
Nobody's forcing you to uninstall XP. You'll just have to come to terms with the reality that at some point it will no longer be supported.
On the other hand, if they had made the timer web-based, they'd probably have designed it to only work in IE anyway.
"We can categorically state we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - UK military spokesman, July 2007
Both your statements are equally true of commercial software.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
If there are enough users, yes, and at least it is possible, whereas closed source is dead when the owner says so ...
and absolutely nothing you can do about it...
And then they can laugh at you as Apple logs your location all day.
lol. what a fool. linux is 20 years old and has been updated from the start. all for free too. and who the hell cares anyways, go buy your windows machines, have them work like shit, get virus's and then deal with it. have fun!
It only supports 4GB of ram, lots of things want more than that.
Only 64-bit Windows apps can access more than 4GB of RAM, and I've only seen two 64-bit Windows apps in the wild so far, one of wihch is Internet Explorer (Windows 7 may come with some other native 64-bit apps, but IE is the only one that I know is 64-bit... I'm guessing that no-one has really been waiting for 64-bit notepad or minesweeper).
Just like you can choose to depend on MS.
Depending on Microsoft is a Hobson's choice: take it or leave it. Depending on a Linux distributor means there will probably be more than one distributor with an acceptable offer.
BTW, which linux distro releases patches for 10 year old releases
Whether or not that question is worth answering depends on the following questions: First, do Linux distributors charge as much to upgrade from one release to the next as Microsoft charges to upgrade from one release of Windows to the next? Second, do Linux distributors increase the hardware requirements as much from one release to the next as Microsoft changed them between Windows XP and Windows Vista? The CPU, video, memory, and disk requirements increased, and the driver model for peripherals changed fundamentally.
by linux, i mean the kernel. (which is all that really matters anyways) lol
I work in manufacturing. We have HUNDREDS of very expensive machines ($100K - $2M cost each) that are controlled by PCs running everything from Windows 98 to NT to XP. In fact, I think there may even be some tools that still have Win3.11 interfaces. I think the majority are still using NT 4.0.
They still chug along. It's getting more expensive to get some replacement parts that work, but it's still cheaper and easier than having the tool control software and drivers completely re-written for a new OS.
I doubt my experience with this is even remotely unique in the manufacturing world. Tools are expensive and tend to stay around for a LONG time.
I sorta feel bad for MS. XP was a great OS and it's of course now getting long in the tooth but many companies still use it and will continue to do so. I work for a large multinational telecom and we have no plan to upgrade past XP anytime soon. What does this say about Windows 7 or 8? Once most companies switch over to that, it will likely be even longer before they switch away from that. The life cycle in business is going to get longer and longer on the OS and likely Office suite. Unless there is some major shift in computing for businesses, it could be a whole career of workers or more before Win7 is replaced.
which is building an OS, and a built a browser, just to further entrench their real business, search. think about that: for google, the OS and browser is an afterthought for the real party. and investment in these areas for googe are just permanent expenses, no deriving of revenue directly. google went into these products fully knowing that, because the point is just to undermine the competition
therefore, it is entirely in microsoft's interest to let XP live as long as possible, even as a revenue loser, just to keep those boxen out of the clutches of non-microsoft OS products. and microsoft will continue to support XP as long as it is a significant part of the living machines out there, simply because they may wish XP to die in their hearts, but the alternative is even worse, and anyone with the most rudimentary business sense at microsoft will realize this as the deadline nears
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I guess my problem is this: I realize it's capitalism, and we all have to spend money, regularly, to buy operating systems and applications. However, what happens when you (or, for example, Corporate America) gets into a situation where you like the stability and work-flow of a particular environment? I don't want to buy another computer yet, and upgrading can be almost just as expensive. Add to that the fact that if I upgrade from XP to 7, I then have to reinstall all of my applications and potentially lose all of my previous settings, plus not all applications run on 7, and there are many pieces of (rather expensive) hardware that don't have drivers for 7 yet - it's sickening. I have enough experience with computers that upgrades and reinstalls don't stress me out, but still...it's a capital investment of time and money, and there's no really compelling reason to move forward except corporate greed.
Yes, XP is 10 years old. We should celebrate the fact that Microsoft actually gets it right sometimes, and perhaps Microsoft could charge folks a fee for supporting and operating system that "just works." It's mature enough that it shouldn't need many bug fixes, just closing off security holes.
Having said that, if Linux did all the things I wanted it to do, I would gladly choose a winning distribution and sail it for the next 30 years. As it is, I use Linux all over the place, and love how easy it is to patch/update/upgrade. Speaking of 30 years...I have never heard of anyone successfully, happily upgrading Windows from an older version to a newer version without having niggling, persistent, long-term problems. Why can't Microsoft get it right?
Set the default theme in {insert Linux distro}...
.. and watch how your beloved {recent version} reveals itself as {older version} with fancy layouts, themes, and effects
Postgresql can run on windows, no idea why anyone would do that though. It can take far more ram than that. I am sure pretty much all popular FOSS software on windows has 64 bit versions. It does on linux.
...what happens to the XP activation servers after Microsoft "decides" that i have to upgrade...? Do they turn 'em off and admit that they lied for a decade...? Do they release a final hotfix to disable the activation?
Come on. The headline is misleading. XP won't suddenly stop working - rather it will simply not be supported by Microsoft.
Look at Canonical's official support policy for Ubuntu. "Long-Term" support versions mean 3-years on the desktop, 5 on the server.
PostgreSQL has dropped support for a number of old releases - you can read volumes of discussion on the subject in mailing archives.
Even cars are only officially supported for something like 10 years (I think that's the required time for manufacturers to provide replacement parts). I've had a number of instances where I had to go to aftermarket for replacements but I can't really complain that my 26-year old car is not supported.
In other words, nothing to see here, move along.
~~~~~~~
"You are not remembered for doing what is expected of you." - Atul Chitnis
No reinstalls? I cringe at the thought of updating Ubuntu without doing a clean wipe. Last two times burned me hard, and I think I've finally learned my lesson.
If you've only seen two then you must have been trying very hard to avoid them...
As constrast to your statement, my work laptop has more than a dozen programs that installed themselves as 64-bit by default.
Greylisting is to SMTP as NAT is to IPv4
Hardware failure can sometimes be avoided by replacing parts - but in the case of XP, you may have to reactivate the box if you replace too many.
instead of making app that is useless for most of the people that can actually run it they should have just made a website. It would have been cheaper too. No wonder people are starting to run from microsoft products.
"which linux distro releases patches for 10 year old releases, I'm curious.."
If you installed a 10 year old release of Debian you could likely update it to the current release version with no problems.
Been there, failed at that... Support for jumping revs of glibc is NOT as good as it could be.
Having had the displeasure of working with this abomination at work, I can tell you that whoever thought these "enhancements" to the "user experience" would be an improvement should be taken out back and beaten to bloody a pulp with baseball bat.
What used to be a simple process to change, such as changing the default path for a network drive, is now a convoluted mess that requires three times as much effort. For example, in XP, to change the default location for a user's documents, you would right-click My Documents, go to Properties, change the path, click OK.
In 7 you have to go through the Start button, something about users, select the correct user, make the modification, save the change then delete a second users setting then save all changes.
You cannot find anything quickly or easily in 7. Everything is a search. I don't want to fucking search for something when I know where it is.
It is impossible to see every program installed on your PC in one location. Who the fuck thought hiding things was a great idea?
I could go on but my complaints have been echoed by throngs of others. 7 just plain sucks. It's shit and should be treated as such.
I will do everything in my power to keep my parents XP systems running for as long as I can, MSFT be damned.
As for me, it looks like I'll have to take the plunge and go to Linux (and thrash about with that during the learning process).
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Right. Now try to keep up with the kind of update schedule that something like Ubuntu has in a corporate environment. You'll have loads of fun.
So what's going to happen to the online activation?
Long ago when XP came out there was an issue of what happens when XP gets killed and there's no more activation. I believe Microsoft claimed that they were going to release a patch to take away the activation before killing XP, but I don't know if that's even true. And if it's not, people may be in serious trouble when their XP thinks their new harddrive requires phoning home and Microsoft refuses to answer. Forced upgrades for everyone.
Did Canonical mail you a free Ubuntu 10 disk?
Canonical used to run a program called ShipIt that would, indeed, mail free discs. But it still sells 5-packs for 5 GBP. And for people already fortunate enough to have broadband with a cap in the double-digit GB per month or higher, downloading and burning Ubuntu costs far, far less than a copy of Windows 7.
That's why I write my own OS, drivers and software. I also dug my own well in my backyard, bought a windmill-powered generator, built my own car, bake my own bread and only read stories that I wrote myself. Of course, with the latter, I usually have to wait about five years to forget the plot, but at least I know I'll like it.
Actually, I do bake my own bread, weather permitting.
This unbiased moderation brought to you by the Porcine Aviation Group!
It may very well be that some folks within the company really are trying to be helpful and let you know that, hey, there's something newer and better available.
But in reality, it's just marketing. Advertising. Vista was bad enough when it was released that I think folks wouldn't have wanted to switch regardless of whether they were on Windows 98, much less XP. The situation was exacerbated when the uptake of Windows 7 was still slowed by folks hesitating from moving away from Windows XP.
In fact, it seems similar to how they've had to try to push people away from older version of Internet Explorer. It seems Microsoft is fighting to keep their new offerings relevant. For the most part, I think they're improving. IE is looking much improved over just the last five years. Windows 7 is close to erasing the tragedy of Vista but could perhaps still use some help.
As for Office... well, I think the best thing they could do for Office would actually be to start trimming it down rather than trying to add new features. It's better than it used to be but it seems like they're starting to run into a wall where they've reached the limit of real useful new features they can add and are now trying to just spin straw into gold with smaller features and tweaks and UI changes.
Both your statements are equally true of commercial software.
First - we're talking commercial Linux here. So yes - of course it's true for commercial software. Secondly - let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. You want Windows support? It's coming from Microsoft. One way or another. Want to find someone else to support Windows? If Microsoft isn't going to do it, you're going to be pretty limited. But you can move to a different platform, right? The transition is going to be painful. You want RHEL support? It's coming from RedHat. Want to ditch RedHat? You could theoretically find someone else. After all, the code is available and anyone can build RPMs. If you really, really want to do it that way. Probably not. So now you need to move off RHEL. Pick another Linux distro. The transition won't be without issues. But moving from one Linux distro to another is a heck of a lot easier than moving between, say, Windows and Unix.
The last "support" I saw for XP was SP3 so the lack of any more improvements, bug fixes or security patches really won't make any difference to me. In fact, not having patches forced onto my XP VM could even be one less distraction and annoyance. I fully expect to get at least another 10 years service out of it and will only stop using it when the copies of Office, Photoshop and the development tools I need stop working.
politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
They used to have a service that did just that. It's closed now, but it was operational for a long time.
http://www.ubuntu.com/shipit
PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
And if something you are running has a dependency on something shipped with that older version, and deprecated in the new version? Have you factored in the cost of that upgrade as well?
Right. Because Ubuntu is the only Linux. I suppose you never heard the joke about Debian releases and solar eclipses?
PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
Just because Microsoft won't support XP, doesn't mean my company won't still be using 14+ year old software.
Both your statements are equally true of commercial software.
True, because commercial free software exists. But just in case by "commercial" you meant "proprietary", I'll answer those:
With proprietary software, you choose on whom to depend.
With free software, I can choose from depending on one supplier of a program to depending on another supplier of the same program, with switching costs far less than the cost to switch from one program to another.
With proprietary software, companies compete for you to depend on them. If they stop, you can switch to another company offering support for the product. The more popular proprietary applications have a wide choice of support options.
False. If a company stops supporting its proprietary program, I won't be able to get support from anyone unless I switch to a different application. Companies announcing a program's end of life rarely if ever announce a new official supplier of support for that program, and any unofficial supplier commits copyright infringement.
The large majority of PC owners (not the corporate accounts,) take whatever OS comes with the box.
The corporate accounts have staff who absolutely HATE change.
They buy based on functionality and make NO changes. (I know of some FAX servers in an office's closets in the midwest that are still running on IBM hardware and on OS/2 and will until they stop running.)
The people who hate change even more than IT staff are accountants. They LIKE hardware that behaves like it.
That is the nature of their customer base.
The people who buy microsoft's new OSs are OEMs, who don't use 'em either.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
But you didn't get any productivity software or support for the same (you paid extra for that, and that's MS's cash cow).
Of course Windows is cheap. It's equivalent to a loss leader for Microsoft. Because you use Windows, you are far more likely to pay for things like MS Office. And you fit into their plan of maintaining dominance on desktops and workstations, which is a losing proposition for us all in the long run.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Sounds like a problem with you. I did this with debian for years before.
It's time for all coders to go over and give the guys at REACTOS a hand getting it out of Alpha.
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
"True, but with free software, you choose on whom to depend."
Just like you can choose to depend on MS. BTW, which linux distro releases patches for 10 year old releases, I'm curious..
Answer: Red Hat Enterprise Linux
https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/
Erik Dalén
As a competent admin I can build packages from source if need be. If the application that it depends on is no longer supported at all, then alternatives will have to be found. Just like moving from XP to 7, or when MS started forcing IE7 on everyone.
You'd be a fool to choose to depend on MS, just like you'd be a fool to rely on any single supplier... It's only good business sense to have backup options for anything thats remotely important.
RedHat release patches for 10 years (at least for paying customers): https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/errata/
There are many differences however...
A linux distro contains far more software than windows does.
There are less reasons not to upgrade a linux system, new versions are free and your existing hardware is usually capable of running them with adequate performance.
On the other hand, there are plenty of linux based embedded devices running positively ancient versions of code, which are still being actively supported by the device vendors.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Want to switch to another distro? Yeah, good luck with that.
Linux distributions are often based on other distributions. Canonical has its own version of Debian, called Ubuntu, and other companies offer their own version of Debian. If Canonical goes breasts up, I can migrate Ubuntu servers and workstations to another Debian-based distro at probably less cost than that of switching from Windows XP and Windows Server 2003 to Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2.
You could be looking at an IT nightmare unless you spend a lot of time and money ensuring that your system will run fine on another distro.
How is that any more of a nightmare than spending a lot of time and money ensuring that a Windows XP-based workflow will run fine on Windows 7?
it would be no less trivial to switch from Red hat to Debian
If you use an RPM based distro, then switch to another RPM based distro. RHEL and CentOS aren't the only ones. Likewise, if you use Ubuntu, but Canonical stops satisfying you, then switch to another Debian based distro.
Not for your typical office user...
And XP technically supports much more than 4GB, it's an artificial limitation to make you buy more expensive versions if you want to use more ram.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
>fortunate enough to have broadband with a cap in the double-digit GB
For as much as you brits rag on us americans, I am damn glad I don't have to deal with this bullshit.
How can you call that fortunate?
Because some areas of the United States still have caps in the single digit GB per month.
Now try to keep up with the kind of update schedule that something like Ubuntu has in a corporate environment.
Ubuntu LTS has major upgrades every other year, with a 1-year overlap between one LTS's support period and that of the next. For servers, the overlap is three years. In a corporate environment, is this too short to test and deploy the new operating system? Perhaps I've just been spoiled by working for a small business my whole career.
Dude, XP is over 10 years old. Please inform me which popular Linux desktop distro has backwards support for 10 year old packages?
None that I can think of, but many distros offer free (as in beer) upgrades to a new version. Compare this to Microsoft, which requires the purchase of a new license and usually new hardware to match.
Micro$oft is killing Windows XP only because not enough users have switched to something newer.
Per W3Schools, Windows XP is used on 42.9% of computers while Windows 7 is used on only 34.1%.
Per StatCounter, Windows XP is used on 47.32% of computers while Windows 7 is used on only 30.6%.
(Both sets of stats from March 2011.)
The major problem is that I use software with Windows XP that will not run on Windows 7. Those applications do exactly what I want, but there are no new versions for Windows 7. Not only will I have the expense of upgrading Windows, I will also have the expense of replacing otherwise good applications.
One of the huge advantages of adopting an open source operating system is to avoid such nonsense as the forcing of obsolescence on technology. For example, upgrade to the latest Ubuntu, say, isn't an issue because it is free and if the hardware won't go there you can just stick with the old version, safe in the knowledge that developers aren't actively trying to find reasons to make their latest offerings not run on it.
This is ridiculous. Open source software loses support in the same manner as closed source software. Much open source software loses its support quicker, for various reasons such as developers losing interest, not having time, or inability to work on it due to not being paid. Open source OSes develop new technology which new programs won't run without just as easily as closed source software. There is no reason or evidence that developers are or aren't actively trying to find reasons to make their latest offerings not run on either Linux or Windows.
Yes, I understand that Internet Explorer 10 does not run on Windows XP. What I am saying is that there is no evidence that the reason behind it is that the developers actively tried to find reasons to make that happen, and there is no evidence that this phenomenon is worse with closed source software. (I don't really know why it doesn't run on WinXP; I figure it uses APIs that are only available in later versions of Windows) I also bet you can find *nix software that does not run on old versions of *nix. (I don't have any examples, though)
Just because the U.S. is a republic does not mean it is not a democracy. Democracy/republic are not mutually exclusive.
October 22, 2010 is the last date you can sell a PC with XP on it, from Microsoft. If someone is continuing to sell them, that's between the purchaser and the seller, and Microsoft would not be too happy about it.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/products/lifecycle
Microsoft is not selling XP, resellers are. And Microsoft would prefer you chose Windows 7, not XP.
...thanks to the people that wrote the activation and WGA cracks.
Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
A typical developer gets 10% of NET profits from the publisher. A $60 game is sold to retail at wholesale for $28. 10% of $28 is $2.80 per unit at best. Of course the publisher usually subtracts several other things.
The $1 app is not killing the game industry. The game industry is killing itself by not moving on. There are several top games on iOS that sell for $5 to $10. Sword and Sworcery was $4.99 and in the top 10. The Sims 3 was $9.99 and in the top 10.
In other words based on the iOS business model you can still make AAA games. The developer gets the same or MORE money.
You could run a 32-bit Windows in a VM and run it there, but that's not a solution you can implement without buying additional parts.
Windows 7 Pro includes a copy of XP and a VM. What additional parts would be needed?
As a competent admin, so can I. However, a support package means I don't have to spend two days working out which version of glibc this package needs to build, plus its 150 other dependencies that I also need to find and build because they have also been deprecated in newer releases.
A decade ago is when XP was introduced. It was still sold as recently as 2 years ago.
XP came with my netbook, which is still in perfect condition, but doesn't have the horsepower to run Windows 7.
Seriously, the OS is just a way to start applications by clicking on them. XP performs this simple task pretty well.
Moreover, I bet you a nickel my company, which is still entirely on XP on the desktop, won't be in any hurry at all to upgrade all those boxes to Win7. At best, they may allow Win7 on new hardware. (...Which is currently forbidden. New PCs with Win7 are reimaged with XP.)
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Not sure about Linux, but there are still people running FreeBSD 4.x (4.0 was released in 2000) on production machines. It's not officially supported by the FreeBSD team (although there are still occasional bug fixes committed to that branch of the tree), but you can get third party support if you're willing to pay for it.
That's rather the point. Support ends for a Free Software system when there are not enough customers willing to supports an ecosystem. Support ends for a proprietary system when the original manufacturer decides to kill it. FreeBSD 2.x was supported by third parties long after the original developers moved on (some machines running it had uptimes over 10 years according to Netcraft). When a FreeBSD release's official support ends, it's pretty cheap to get a third party to continue the support. The code in trunk hasn't diverged much, so back porting bug fixes is not a huge amount of effort. As time passes, and the new code diverges more, it becomes harder and so becomes more expensive. Eventually, the cost of paying for the back ports becomes greater than the cost of upgrading your installs, so you stop paying. This then increases the cost slightly for other people. If you have enough money, then you can get support for any given version for as long as you want.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Um...last time I checked there are around 73,357,145,315* companies in the world which will provide support for Micorosoft products.
Dude, when MS pull the plug on XP, the game is over. No company can spring up to plug the gap. That is the different.
Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
Run F/OSS on it, or old versions of windows software.
For the browser, for sure, you will need some kind of F/OSS.
Some printers, or wireless NICs, might give you trouble. For that matter, if you need new, high-end, hardware, you might find it difficult to get drivers.
If I have old laptops with XP, do they just stop working or just stop getting updates? Suppose I don't care about Explorer 10 or Media Player? If my old machine would boot up the Ubuntu Live CD (which it doesn't) I would be happier.
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
For example, upgrade to the latest Ubuntu, say, isn't an issue because it is free and if the hardware won't go there you can just stick with the old version, safe in the knowledge that developers aren't actively trying to find reasons to make their latest offerings not run on it.
Sticking with old versions of Linux can be problematic as well. Unless you're willing to continue using old versions of all of your applications, you'll want to build packages from upstream source. When you try to do this, you'll find that many of them have dependencies on newer versions of libraries which aren't available in the older distro's repository. You can end up in a situation where you're needing to track down and port a whole bunch of libraries yourself... and at the end of the day, you may still find that one of them relies on a kernel feature that simply isn't there. Unless you've got a lot of time to spend mucking around, or are willing to accept the fact that many newer applications simply won't work, running outdated Linux distros isn't going to be a cakewalk.
You also won't be getting automatic security patches (though I suppose older distros are going to be relatively secure via "security through obscurity").
In a VM. Hell, airlines and the banking industry run IBM 360 programs from the 1960's in a 380 emulator runnning a 370 emulator which in turn runs a 360 emulator.
Legacy projects wont die because the accountants want to extend life of an investment and upgrading gives no return on investment. Today it is still political to keep XP as many IT managers want to keep their jobs for paying $400,000 for activeX intranet crap that only work for IE. TO suggest to upgrade is a direct threat to these employees who will fight tooth and nail agaisnt Windows 7 migration so they can look good for their bosses.
I wish Oracle would stop requiring activeX and java frameworks that only work in IE 6. Yes you heard me, Java applets that wont work with any VM other than java 1.3.1 not 1.3.2 or 1.3.0. Sigh
So XP is here to stay forever.
http://saveie6.com/
What I find interesting is that this whole XP thing is probably gonna repeat itself with Windows 8 IMO. Windows 7 users won't upgrade for the same reason: it's just good enough. In fact, Windows 8 better be really crappy so Windows 9 will have more chances of being a success. My $0.02.
Everything from adobe (except Linux flash player) has a 64bit version. Autodesk stuff. Like sibling says: FOSS often does. Symantec AV. Anything that needs its own drivers or likes to use a lot of RAM.
I'm installing a new computer.
I know, I'll use Linux!
I'll use kernel series 2.2 because I remember that one from when I was a kid. Simple and proven. Great choice I just made!
from Windows 2000. Seriously.
The heck with private computers--I know a LOT of companies that still use IE6 which was supposedly dead. Why? Legacy systems. There are some programs that have to have a work around because they don't work with IE 7 or 8. We had a planned upgrade to 7 which has been held up because of this. Not to mention if you're using a computer that came with XP, it's likely going to turn into a slug when you load 7, if it can be loaded at all without having to replace it.
If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
As a final act, will Microsoft release an update to XP systems that just disables it, or turns off key functionality?
Remember when Tivo did that? Remember when Sony did that? Do you have a contractual guarantee that Microsoft won't do that?
Time for everyone to finally move to Linux!
Who cares if they stop supporting it, I've never gotten any support from them in the first place. I'm certainly not going to run any of the newer stuff unless absolutely forced to. And haven't been yet...
I'm still using it on my main pc at work and at home. On the odd occasion i think about upgrading but i just don't want to spend the cash. I run Chrome, use google docs, winamp. No real reason to upgrade to Windows 7. The only thing that ties me to Windows is FlashDevelop :( I can't run Windows legally in a VM without buying a new copy and again i don't want to spend the cash.
I don't think that Microsoft will turn off Windows Activation for XP. If they do it will grow the Windows XP market share because XP runs really well on older hardware and there is no good copy protection. People would just stick it on any box they see fit.
For one thing --
But for another, winXP, as parent pointed out, might as well have been yesterday -- last time I hooked one (in Virtual box, of course) to the internet, it downloaded a gawd awful amount of brand new, not 10 year old, code. So much it took an hour to get, and most of another to install during "shutdown".
The only reason they want it dead is to force sales of their even higher priced, but not really better, new stuff. Actually, I gave vista an honest shot, but lost all possible future interest in MS right after that, and I'd actually given them a lot of slack before that when win 2k broke dos and invalidated quite a lot of my old, but very very expensive to replace CAD stuff. Fortunately, linux has a decent dos emulator, but that seems beyond what MS can achieve (!!??!!).
Why guess when you can know? Measure!
Bah, it doesn't expire until 2014. By then I'll be rid of these XP machines I've been holding on to.
Why are you letting these clowns ruin our country?
I've been running Debian Testing on my desktop for over 10 years. It is continuously upgraded, and that includes all the apps, not just the OS. Never reinstalled it. And it's totally free/libre.
I expect to keep running it for the next ten years.
I have a cron that downloads the updates, which I like to apply by hand ("apt-get upgrade") every few days, so I can watch what's going on. But most of that could be done by cron, if you wanted to take a bit of risk (similar to what you take when you apply MS updates).
By end of support do they mean you won't be able to call them on the phone when one of their myriad security updates breaks your system, like happened to two of mine in the last weeks?
I haven't determined it is actually possible to get support from them, and I tried.
There was no end to the muzak.
It seems *support* has already ended, if there ever was any. Not much of a loss.
.
Both your statements are equally true of commercial software.
First - we're talking commercial Linux here. So yes - of course it's true for commercial software.
Secondly - let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. You want Windows support? It's coming from Microsoft. One way or another. Want to find someone else to support Windows? If Microsoft isn't going to do it, you're going to be pretty limited. But you can move to a different platform, right? The transition is going to be painful.
You want RHEL support? It's coming from RedHat. Want to ditch RedHat? You could theoretically find someone else. After all, the code is available and anyone can build RPMs. If you really, really want to do it that way. Probably not. So now you need to move off RHEL. Pick another Linux distro. The transition won't be without issues. But moving from one Linux distro to another is a heck of a lot easier than moving between, say, Windows and Unix.
In this specific case, you can basically painlessly migrate from RHEL to CentOS with minimal differences (except lack of second-party commercial support). CentOS is specifically made to be compatible with RHEL.
Did you mount a military-grade, variable-focus MASER on an unlicensed artificial intelligence?
You can continue using XP for as long as you want; they don't magically make it stop working.
As other have pointed out, I imagine it'd be hard to activate your copy with no activation servers in existence. So, unless you're running a post-activation install, or a cracked version to avoid activation all together, you're going to be SOL at some point.
Okay then October 22, 2015 It should actually be a function of how long it was for sale or minium five years.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Most Windows customers cannot, or at least think they cannot do that. Actually, most don't even realize they can re-install the version they are already on or why they should. They just run with what came from the factory as it gets fragmented, choked with malware and otherwise corrupted. Then, when it is too slow to be bearable they buy a whole new one. Most Windows users actually believe their computers become slower with age! Granted, they do become effectively slower as updated software is designed for faster machines, ie more bloated but they upgrade much sooner than they would need to because they don't understand that their OS is so crappy and corruptible or that it can be restored and even upgraded so easily.
I'd say that this is a bummer as by every metric I can run Windows 7 is still bloated and buggy compared to XP. However as more and more people realize the windows treadmill is throwing them under the bus for corporate profit, then more and more people will be exposed to alternatives like Linux Mint 10.
And let's be honest. Other than running a few games well, there is virtually no reason to choose Windows over Linux Mint 10.
This isn't a troll. Do not respond unless you have installed Linux Mint 10 on more than 2 boxes.
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
M$ should get smart and release an XP v2 (aka another service pack) with a few select fixes (GPT support for one, removal of the licensed memory limit, etc). That way they can make their $200 license fee, and still make people happy.
I have a win7 machine that all built out with the latest and greatest. You know what? I don't use it, instead I sit down at my 4 year old windows XP machine and use it instead. Thats because with about 8x the hardware (high end CPU/SSD/graphics) it simply responds slower than XP on a couple year old dual core and a freeking spinning harddrive. Plus the XP machine works with a bunch of software that doesn't work on 7 (old eeprom burner, etc). Recently I put a couple of the hacks on the xp machine, and have 8G of memory and a 4TB esata disk attached. So its possible to get "updates" just not via the M$ route.
Some of my co-workers are running windows 7, and if they log into their workstations using remote desktop, it can cause the system to become unresponsive, and they have to force a reboot. Has anyone seen this? Does anyone have a workaround? I run windows 7 at home, but have no interest in running it at work if I'll have this same problem.
-monique
... using software that actually belongs to someone else...
The lesson is clear here; everyone should write their own operating system. Or at the very least fork their own personal version of the OS of their choice and take it from there. It's the only way of being sure it'll never cease production or support.
Sure, it'll take up half of your life maintaining, upgrading and patching. But when the only other option is to spend money on someone else's software, I'm sure you'll agree lines must be drawn and sacrifices have to be made.
I can see that the camp that develops Windows Phone OS is going to progressively overtake and meld with the software developers of Windows 7. Apple is following that model with iOS becoming integrated with Lion. Just a matter of time before tablet-like computers replace the traditional setup, especially at the office, where terminal style application access could be implemented. However, XP is going to stick around, whether MS likes it or not. It's paid for, business owners are cheap, and most of their software for day-to-day runs just fine with it. When there are more SaaS options and apps for mobile devices that supersede the need for an XP machine running a bunch of local apps, then XP will be supplanted.
-Yim
You want RHEL support? It's coming from RedHat. Want to ditch RedHat? You could theoretically find someone else. After all, the code is available and anyone can build RPMs. If you really, really want to do it that way. Probably not. So now you need to move off RHEL. Pick another Linux distro. The transition won't be without issues. But moving from one Linux distro to another is a heck of a lot easier than moving between, say, Windows and Unix.
In this specific case, you can basically painlessly migrate from RHEL to CentOS with minimal differences (except lack of second-party commercial support). CentOS is specifically made to be compatible with RHEL.
Sure - but I would expect if you didn't want support, one would likely be using CentOS to begin with. I don't think there's really much of an alternative to support a deployment of RHEL systems that doesn't come from RedHat. Granted - I've never toyed with Oracle's distro and I seem to remember it's RHEL based (though my bias would suggest that going from RedHat to Oracle is getting out of the fire and in to a bigger fire). Maybe there are easier migrations to be had?
None the less, going from RHEL to Ubuntu or SUSE would involve some level of pain. But it would be much less painful than many other platform migrations - mainly because you're not making much of a platform shift.
The market spoke loud and clear: the market likes XP and will not move willingly. Microsoft's winning strategy was clear: XP2, perfectly compatible with XP and better. Instead, Microsoft forces Vista (now renamed Windows 7 with additional lipstick) on its long suffering customers and leaves millions with hardware too old for Vista/W7 in the lurch.
I love it. It is just the next step in Microsoft's decade long, slow motion suicide. At this rate the entertainment will last another five years.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
Sticking with old versions of Linux can be problematic as well...
But you're conflating two different use patterns: 1) keeping an older machine going with minimal maintenance 2) staying on the leading edge and running all the latest stuff. These days it is hardly an either or: you simply have two machines. Your old one is basically free and you were going to get that new one anyway, weren't you?
My aging Shuttle PC, quietized so it's one of the few machines I don't mind running 24/7 in my home, is running Lenny. The only backports on it are from the period I was using it as both a server and workstation at the same time, which is actually pretty stupid but it worked and saved me the cost of a new machine for a few years. Uptime is 120 days, and the only reason it isn't 2/3 years is, the UPS stopped holding a charge and had to be replaced.
My bleeding edge machine runs Ubuntu 10.10. Actually, I regret that a little, if I could replay it would be Sid. Bleeding edge is bleeding edge.
Two different machines, two different use patterns. Both work. Mashing these use patterns together works too, just expect to get handy with backports.org, it's not a big deal.
Have you got your LWN subscription yet?
In fact the only reason they kept selling XP for so long was because of Netbooks needing something lighter than Vista. There was a limit of 1GB RAM max IIRC. Once Windows 7 Starter was available they quickly moved everyone over to that and terminated sales of XP.
I think people liked XP because it was familiar, and Vista was bollocks. Goes from XP to 7 is a bit of a learning curve. My advice is remember that you can get to almost anything by just typing a keyword into the search box on the start menu. Saves hunting through the Control Panel for stuff.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I'm pretty sure any new computer that comes with XP nowadays actually comes with a Windows 7 license that has downgrade rights, and the OEM has conveniently already downgraded the machine for you. The giveaway is the Windows 7 OEM sticker on the side of the computer. This is still allowed by Microsoft, though I'm sure they would prefer you ran Windows 7 over XP. Oh, and you can do this a very, very long time (you could still downgrade back to Windows 3.1 as late as 2008).
"... think about the problems created by using software that actually belongs to someone else..." WTF does that mean?
when you pay money at the store for the CD/DVD with software, you do not own the CD/DVD with the software that is on it; you only bought the right to use the software. See Software License:
The hallmark of proprietary software licenses is that the software publisher grants the use of one or more copies of software under the end-user license agreement (EULA), but ownership of those copies remains with the software publisher
So if MS decides to turn off activation for WinXP in 2014, then you can not use the software anymore. Even though you paid money for it.
So in 2015 we could very well see a rise in the use of pirated / cracked Windows XP installations.
You paid money for something, but you don't own it. And the company you bought it from can turn off the activation and thereby force you to upgrade. That is the problem.
Only works for Windows 7 Professional to Windows XP Professional... but yes, that works. I have done this at work. You need to have the OEM XP disk though, but if you have one machine that came with it you're covered.
That said, what doesn't seem to work is running Linux (Ubuntu) and use the downgraded Windows XP Professional in a VM. The Windows 7 OEM in a VM on Linux works. Why this is, I do not know... I haven't found out and never got it to work.
(Visualization is also only allowed for the "Pro" version... )
Actually, they did went nuts over Win98 going EOL in 2003 too. Here, on Slashdot:
:)
http://developers.slashdot.org/story/03/12/09/1827235/Microsoft-Retires-Windows-98
And I bet you there will be people crying over even for the Vista EOL, as absurd as that may sound.
BTW, the XP EOL is not even close, it will be in 2014. Nothing to panic.
But you're conflating two different use patterns
Well actually the original article already did that, by indicating that you could use an old distro without worrying that new versions of applications would be incompatible. I was responding to the bit I quoted.
I think it will apply to the older distros as well, in the sense that they are so infrequently used that they are unlikely to be targeted. Malware authors aren't going to bother with something that represents only a fraction of a percent of the installed base.
I work for a VAR (sells HP, IBM, Dell, Oracle, EMC, etc.etc.etc.) and we sell machines with Windows 7 plus a Windows XP downgrade. Microsoft has extended the right to buy Windows XP Downgrade till 2020.
We could have just pooled the resources to mod it and keep it upgrading.
Sure - but I would expect if you didn't want support, one would likely be using CentOS to begin with. I don't think there's really much of an alternative to support a deployment of RHEL systems that doesn't come from RedHat. Granted - I've never toyed with Oracle's distro and I seem to remember it's RHEL based (though my bias would suggest that going from RedHat to Oracle is getting out of the fire and in to a bigger fire). Maybe there are easier migrations to be had?
None the less, going from RHEL to Ubuntu or SUSE would involve some level of pain. But it would be much less painful than many other platform migrations - mainly because you're not making much of a platform shift.
I've set up plenty of customers who had initially purchased RHEL with CentOS. One scenario is that the software is initially purchased, but they don't have the budget for ongoing support from Red Hat, Inc. Another scenario is that they got RHEL because it was "Enterprise" but don't really need the extra value-added features. (For instance, a web server that only runs a few static html pages and a php script or two probably doesn't need full-scale enterprise support).
Did you mount a military-grade, variable-focus MASER on an unlicensed artificial intelligence?