iPhone and Location: Don't Panic

stonemirror writes "There's a lot of blind panic out there over the discovery of a database file on the iPhone which contains dated location information. Without actually looking at the data, a lot of folks have proclaimed that the 'iPhone is tracking your every move.' I actually did take a look at the data, and it's not doing anything like that."

Comments

Anecdotal

[RocketRabbit]

This story is entirely anecdotal. Sure, it may not be tracking your "every move" but we have no way of knowing if this guy's phone was even on for his whole train ride (for example).

His conclusion is "We don't know why Apple is collecting this information but it's not a big deal." What the hell? How do we know it's not a big deal?

Sorry, Apple, you guys fucked up. A random blog-pologist isn't going to save this one for you.

Re:Anecdotal

[Anonymous Coward]

and saying that its OK because 'it isn't accurate' is just fucking stupid. This type of personal intrusion cannot be accepted.

if we don't take action now, we'll settle for nothing later.

Re:Anecdotal

[Pieroxy]

The most interesting thing in the article is the last sentence:

[UPDATE: Exactly the same kind of information seems to be getting stored on Android phones. Here's an application you can use to dump it out...]

So Apple users know they're not alone ;-)

Re:Anecdotal

[h4rr4r]

This "but my friends are all doing it too" argument did not work when I was a kid and I don't see how it holds water now.

Re:Anecdotal

[stonemirror]

I had the phone on the entire time, and that's far from the only anomaly I pointed out there. All of the information presented on this—so far, anyway—has been anecdotal: nobody has access to anybody else's location database from their iPhone. And, since Android phones do just the same thing, if the guys at Apple "fucked up", the guys at Google did, every bit as badly. My point here was not to be an "apologist", simply to present some aspects of the data that were getting missed in all the hysterics.

Re:Anecdotal

[Americano]

Sure, it may not be tracking your "every move"

If it's not tracking your every move, then it would be inaccurate hysteria to claim that it is, in fact "tracking your every move."

More anecdotal data, which suggests that TFA's anecdote has some validity:
I looked at my iPhone data, and I saw very similar information. I took a trip with some friends back at the beginning of December; During that time, we spent our time at a ski area, or within about 5 miles of the hotel we stayed at for dinner/drinks in the evenings. My iPhone tracking data is so wildly inaccurate that about the only conclusion you can draw from it is that "sometime during the weekend of December 3, 2010, I spent some time in central New Hampshire and/or coastal Maine." The points it collected for that weekend are spread all over a ~100 mile radius from the point I actually stayed. And yes, my phone *was* on the entire time, because I was in fairly regular contact with my girlfriend throughout the weekend via SMS & the Facebook app.

Also, since my backups are all encrypted, I had to specifically turn off encryption to even view this data, and there is zero evidence to suggest that this data is being phoned-home to Apple for any reason.

Is it worth understanding why this data is being collected, and what - if anything - it's being used for? Absolutely. Is it worth fixing if the long-term collection of this data is a bug, or an oversight? You bet. Is it the end of the world, or worth getting hysterical over? Nope, not without significantly more evidence of some sort of nefarious intent.

Re:Anecdotal

[tripleevenfall]

Agreed.

It's not enough to say "Well, you agreed to the TOS" when you know full well nobody reads it. If you are tracking my physical movements, I should have to opt-in to that in an obvious way.

It doesn't even clearly state that this stops if you turn off Location Services, or what happens to the backed up files if you do.

Re:Anecdotal

[Americano]

No, but it is interesting that another platform is doing similar things. Understanding why it happens on Android may provide insight into why it's happening on iOS, as well.

Re:Anecdotal

[recoiledsnake]

> All of the information presented on this—so far, anyway—has been anecdotal: nobody has access to anybody else's location database from their iPhone

Huh, what do you mean by anecdotal? The tool is available to be used on anyone's iPhone and if there's no location data, that's easy to prove, you don't have to believe people's anecdotes about finding location data logged on their phone.

>. And, since Android phones do just the same thing, if the guys at Apple "fucked up", the guys at Google did, every bit as badly.

"They did it too" is not a defense.

Re:Anecdotal

[Lumpy]

Personal intrusion? your cellphone provider has a nice database of your every move that is accurate. They've had this for years. THAT is what you need to be outraged about, not a file that is safely on your phone that is not sent to anyone.

Re:Anecdotal

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. Not only is Apple trying to track your every move, but they also suck at it.

Re:Anecdotal

[Qwavel]

It's not the same kind of information at all. The android file (only available if you have root) is a temporary cache. That is totally difference then the Apple file which holds the data about your location since you bought the phone.

The fact that he considers them the same, and the rest of his article, make it clear that he is merely some obscure, inaccurate, apologist.

With this story being reported all over the Internet, by media and blogs both respectable and ridiculous, why did /. choose to use this ridiculous one. /. seems to have turned into a sort-of FOX news of tech discussion - without even a pretense of objectivity.

Speaking of which, here's one of my favorites pieces so far. A Forces columnist asks whether this discovery (of the Apple location history file) is cool or creepy and concludes that it is cool. She decides that it is actually a great feature and pushes Google to get to it and see if they can come up with a similar feature:
http://blogs.forbes.com/kashmirhill/2011/04/20/cool-or-creepy-your-iphone-and-ipad-are-keeping-track-of-everywhere-you-go-and-you-can-see-it/

So maybe the blog post that /. choose for this whole saga is not actually the worst piece written on the topic.

Re:Anecdotal

[tripleevenfall]

It's synced to your PC, which is a vulnerability in itself.

Re:Anecdotal

[geekoid]

You seriously don't know what hysteria means, do you?

"If it's not tracking your every move, then it would be inaccurate to literally claim that it is, in fact "tracking your every move.""

True, but we really are doing is arguing semantics. At what point does it become accurate? write location once a day? twice a day? every hour? every minute? every second?
Fact of the matter is, if I track you for enough data points, I can know your every move in every practical way.

For example, based on the data from the web site I can accurate infer that the train was taken, and when. If somone had access to the train info, they could pick the train you were on.

Re:Anecdotal

[poetmatt]

No, it's called "apple is innocent focus on android I'm an apple fanboy", to some degree (and not always). The "oh but android!" argument is seriously getting old.

Meanwhile, all cellphones have been doing this for years, and people rightfully can and should be concerned if they are not aware that their location is potentially trackable at almost any time you have a cellphone on. However, to act like "we can just patch so that it's not stored on your phone" doesn't answer the "guess what: it's still available" aspect.

Whether that information is being allowed to be obtained without a subpoena or search warrant however, is also a question to be asked.

Re:Anecdotal

[newcastlejon]

Personal intrusion? your cellphone provider has a nice database of your every move that is accurate.

Evidence please. I know that my network provider has data on where I am right now and that they would be capable of doing what you say (given a court order, for example), but that doesn't automatically mean they actually are.

I don't trust Apple any more or less implicitly than my network so I make no comment on whether or not they are in possession of the data my iPhone allegedly collects.

Re:Anecdotal

[mspohr]

If you follow the links and read the articles about the Android (I know, I'm a geek for actually reading the article and following the links), you will find that the Android is a cache of the most recent 50 or 200 locations which are overwritten with new information as you move around. The Apple phone, on the other hand, seems to keep all of the location information since the update to iOS 4.

Since this is a cache for the Android, it looks like it could be used to retrieve recent locations for current location based services.

Re:Anecdotal

[MagicM]

/. seems to have turned into a sort-of FOX news of tech discussion - without even a pretense of objectivity

There was a time when Slashdot had a pretense of objectivity?

Re:Anecdotal

[Americano]

No, it's called "apple is innocent focus on android I'm an apple fanboy", to some degree (and not always). The "oh but android!" argument is seriously getting old.

I'm not sure what your point is. I agreed with h4rr4r that it doesn't "excuse" the retention of the data - but it certainly suggests that there may be a technical reason (most likely related to Location Services) for collecting & storing some location data. So the logical question, until we receive a response from Apple, is to ask, "If Android does it, what do they use that data for?" Because maybe iOS does it for the same reason.

Re:Anecdotal

[causality]

It's synced to your PC, which is a vulnerability in itself.

Is there a way to delete this "consolidated.db" file and replace it with a symlink to /dev/null? Not sure if iPhones have a /dev/null (or equiv.) but Android should.

It'd be interesting to do that and see if it breaks anything. If nothing breaks, even slightly, we can be fairly sure this "feature" provides nothing that benefits the owner of the phone, the paying customer. The question of who does benefit would then become more interesting.

For Apple and Google, this is how you avoid "panic", "hysteria", and various other words used to mischaracterize legitimate questions of trust: document features and files like this in a thorough, open, and easily searched manner instead of waiting for third parties to discover them and speculate about their function. If you refuse to do that, you are setting up this very situation.

Why anyone who is not an employee of Apple and Google would characterize legitimate inquiry as "hysteria" is another interesting question. It's obviously an attempt to dismiss and belittle ("you disagree with me about whether this should be questioned, so obviously you are panicking"). It would seem that in their minds, it's far more reasonable to blame people for wondering if this has privacy implications than it would be to blame the companies for leaving everyone in the dark.

Re:Anecdotal

[absurdhero]

this could be one of two things: wifi hotspots being found via a network of other iphones or ...

He filtered out wifi from the data before doing the analysis.

Re:Anecdotal

[sangreal66]

I'm not an expert, but I do watch The First 48 and the police routinely receive cell tower records of everywhere a suspect has been.

Re:Anecdotal

[Xaedalus]

Why do you care? Are you really THAT important to the world that some shadowy group of villains are going to expend the time and effort to track your every move? Your greatest defense against intrusion is anonymity within the crowd, and that there's no reason for anyone to pay attention to you.

Re:Anecdotal

[cultiv8]

Apple responded to this issue back in July of 2010. The major fuck up is that the file is not encrypted.

Re:Anecdotal

[causality]

Personal intrusion? your cellphone provider has a nice database of your every move that is accurate. They've had this for years. THAT is what you need to be outraged about, not a file that is safely on your phone that is not sent to anyone.

The people who run the cell networks have this data. The cell towers know where you are. Apple does not run a cell network. They just make the phone and leave it to AT&T or Verizon to provide network service. Therefore, it's possible this file provides Apple a way to track location data without owning the cell network. The same could also apply to Google's Android, of course.

If the data is inaccurate, that could be because this system is buggy -- maybe it doesn't get the attention and polish that advertised shiny features receive. It could be because it doesn't need to be accurate to serve its purpose. It could be for any number of reasons. The important part is that none of this answers the question of what the actual intention is. None of this answers the question: if it is a benevolent, innocuous feature, why isn't it listed as a selling point? That above all other things is what creates the suspicion, IMO.

Re:Anecdotal

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a lot of stuff thats being reported about this that is somewhere between sensationalist and wrong. The "researchers" who published this have been pretty sloppy in what they are claiming. I've helped out police forces with using extracting and trying to use this data, over a number of years so I've a reasonably good idea what is there and what isn't.

The data is not new to iOS 4, it has been there at least back to iOS 2, its just the name of place that it is stored is different.

This existence of this data isn't secret, the use of this data is the subject of a session for Apple Developers at the World Wide Developers Conference each year - usually something like "Using Location Services in iOS" or similar in title.

The location data is not the GPS location of the user, it is the location of cell towers the phone can see. All the location data is time stamped, and stamped with the carrier network ID, and the ID of the individual and there's no way you can be in 3, or 6, or 9 different locations at the same time. Depending on how many cell towers were visible, all this tells you is that the phone was within maybe a few km, but up to 25-50km of the tower. If you then take that data and use it to triangulate the users location, you'd typically get a location that was at best accurate to a bit under 1km, and more likely a few km.

The collecting of the data isn't continuous, it appears to be event based. Anecdotally - the phone waking from sleep and reconnecting to the carrier network appears to be one of the events, as is rebooting the phone, and re-connecting to the carrier's network when you come out of a dead spot. It seems plausible, that it may also be snapshotted every time Location Services is fired up, eg by launching the Maps App and consenting to use of location services. That pattern of even driven acquisition would explain the differences that various people out there on the net report.

Similar data is also being tracked and logged by the carrier, but in their case, its harder to get to as it is sitting on carrier systems on their internal network. That is true for all phones. In this case, the data is pretty easy to get to if you have physical possession of the phone.

Thats good enough to tell that you actually went off to Hawaii with your mistress when you told your wife you were going on a work trip to California, but for most people , most of the time, it will only be pretty vague as to where they where - knowing that you are in Baltimore when thats where you live and work isn't that big a revelation.

If the user of the phone opts out of Location Services, the file isn't updated. This is done from Settings.

Like all files that need to be read/written in the background by the system, its always readable to root - it isn't readable (directly) to Apps , although they benefit from it indirectly by Location Services calls responding faster. If you jailbreak your phone, then Apps can read this data and transmit it for their own purposes.

Files in that data protection class can be recovered off the filesystem over USB tether. Technically it is encrypted, but the encryption is really only of use for a fast remote wipe of the device, and it isn't being encrypted in a class that increases the security of the data.

It does reside in the backup, so thats certainly a good reason to always encrypt your iPhone backups and use a strong passphrase for them.

Apple has also been clear in its earlier deposition response as to how user location data is anonomised when it is collected.

Its entirely possible that the persistence of the file is actually a bug - I can see why it would be useful to cache it for a few days to maybe a month at the high end, but back to the start of the epoch seems excessive. In my view its the persistence of the file thats the biggest issue. That not hard for them to fix.

So its bad, but its not where near as extreme a situation as what some people are saying.

Re:Anecdotal

[stonemirror]

My point was that if you view the file being backed up to your PC as a "vulnerability", then encrypting it should ease you worries. While we haven't heard from Apple what the reason for the file is, it seems pretty reasonable to me that it's a database of known cell tower and WiFi locations, to be used to rapidly "triangulate" your location, when possible, if you have an application that wants to use iOS' Location Services. This idea would seem to be supported by the existence of a similar location cache on Android.

Re:Anecdotal

[skelterjohn]

They are - I worked as an intern at AT&T research one summer, and one of the other interns there was doing something with exactly this data. Of course, it was behind a few layers of security and could not leave the building, and even after all that the intern got only anonymized data, but it was definitely collected.

Re:Anecdotal

[causality]

I saw the blog and I wondered what conclusion the blogger would have had if it was microsoft instead of apple. Personally, I was on the creepy side of the scale and was stunned when she thought it was cool. I am so glad I am not cool.

It's not known for sure that Vladimir Lenin came up with the phrase, but it is attributed to him. The phrase is "useful idiots".

The very fact that someone would feel differently about Microsoft doing it than they would about Apple doing it qualifies them as a moron. To allow the legitimacy of a business practice to be defined by your personal feelings about the corporation is pure emotion that has no place in a discussion about the facts of the matter. I especially expect anyone who wants to be a reporter, blogger, pundit, or commentator to understand this.

Re:Anecdotal

[causality]

My point was that if you view the file being backed up to your PC as a "vulnerability", then encrypting it should ease you worries.

While we haven't heard from Apple what the reason for the file is, it seems pretty reasonable to me that it's a database of known cell tower and WiFi locations, to be used to rapidly "triangulate" your location, when possible, if you have an application that wants to use iOS' Location Services. This idea would seem to be supported by the existence of a similar location cache on Android.

It sounds then like we can agree that backups are not the issue here.

While I think your hypothesis is quite reasonable, it is unfortunate that we are all just speculating. I believe my point stands that if companies don't want people raising questions of trust, they should implement such things openly in a well-documented fashion. All it would take is something you can easily find with a Web search and this whole issue would have been put to rest before it ever got started.

How is it that marketers and PR people are so good at manipulating behavior and perception, yet so terrible at foreseeing preventable controversies like this one? The cost to produce one simple document or a couple of entries in a FAQ is absolutely negligible compared to all the other costs involved in designing a phone and implementing a location service.

Re:Anecdotal

[VolciMaster]

Suspects? I can accept that network operators would provide location data for such people, which is why included the court order part in my comment.

Guess what - if they can provide it for specific dates of interest related to suspects in a case, then they're keeping it. And since they don't know who might be called as a suspect / witness, then they're keeping it on everyone. I was on a jury for a murder trial last year: the suspect, her erstwhile boyfriend, the decedent, and a host of others had their cell phone records pulled and presented as evidence.

Re:Anecdotal

[Jerslan]

No, it's called "apple is innocent focus on android I'm an apple fanboy", to some degree (and not always). The "oh but android!" argument is seriously getting old.

As opposed to the "Apple is doing BAD BAD THINGS!!!! But lets ignore that Android is too because we're Android fanboys" argument?

Re:Anecdotal

[Trelane]

There are some very important differences: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/137143/20110421/android-phones-track-users-movements.htm

The data is unencrypted. Unlike the situation with iPhones, however, the data remains on the phone, and to access it one needs access to the operating system itself, known as "root access." On the iPhone, the location data was copied from the phone to a PC every time it was synced with iTunes. It was copying the data to the PC that creates a potential security problem.

Another difference is how big the location data files, called caches, are. On the Android phones they are limited in size to 50 unique cell sites and 200 WiFi access points. Apple's version was much larger

Also, according to a 13-page letter sent to Congress by Apple, they also upload your location history to Apple every 12 hours: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/apple-iphone-tracking/

According to Appleâ(TM)s letter, geodata is being tracked and transmitted to Apple only if a customer toggles the Location Services option in the settings menu to âoeOn.â If itâ(TM)s off, no location-based information will be collected.

If the Location Services setting is flipped on, the iPhone, 3G iPad and, to a more limited extent, the iPod Touch and the Wi-Fi iPad, are transmitting geodata to Apple under different circumstances.

Apple is collecting information about nearby cell towers and Wi-Fi access points whenever you request current location information. Sometimes it will also do this automatically when youâ(TM)re using a location-based service, such as a GPS app.

As for GPS information, Apple is collecting GPS location data only when a customer uses an application requiring GPS capabilities.

Apple claims the collected geodata is stored on the iOS device, then anonymized with a random identification number generated every 24 hours by the iOS device, and finally transmitted over an encrypted Wi-Fi network every 12 hours (or later if thereâ(TM)s no Wi-Fi available) to Apple. That means Apple and its partners canâ(TM)t use this collected geodata to personally identify a user.

At Apple, the data gets stored in a database âoeaccessible only by Apple,â the letter says.

âoeWhen a customer requests current location information, the device encrypts and transmits Cell Tower and Wi-Fi Access Point Information and the deviceâ(TM)s GPS coordinates (if available) over a secure Wi-Fi Internet connection to Apple,â Apple wrote in the letter.

Re:Anecdotal

[Lord An]

Evidence please. I know that my network provider has data on where I am right now and that they would be capable of doing what you say (given a court order, for example), but that doesn't automatically mean they actually are.

I don't trust Apple any more or less implicitly than my network so I make no comment on whether or not they are in possession of the data my iPhone allegedly collects.

Lookee here: A German newspaper made an interactive map of the location of a politician of the Green party who subpoena'd his cell retained phone location data and made it available. It's a very enlightening demo, IMHO (web-page in German, but self-explanatory: hit the 'Play' button and adjust speed with the slider to the right of it). Not only does it show his location over a very long period of time, but also when and where he made phone calls.

And I'd be really surprised if the US had less data retention than Germany.

Re:Anecdotal

[itsthebin]

and I'm sure Apple will patch it

this has been known about for a while and has not been patched yet

Re:Anecdotal

[FrkyD]

Evidence? Ok. A german green politician wanted to find out the same thing so he got access to the information. Turns out that it provides a pretty accurate guide to your moevements. There is an article and an interactive map available here: http://www.zeit.de/digital/datenschutz/2011-03/data-protection-malte-spitz

Re:Anecdotal

[CharlyFoxtrot]

Exellent post. There's more on this blog where a forensics expert points out this is old news, with a picture of a book from 2010 that contains all the information on this "secret" and "scary" database file. Guess these "researchers" don't keep up with the literature, heh.

Re:Anecdotal

[BlueStrat]

It's not an invasion of privacy if your privacy hasn't been invaded. No-one has access to this file unless you fail to lock your phone, or fail to protect your PC.

Unless you get stopped by the Michigan State Police with your phone in your possession. This was covered here a short time ago.

http://slashdot.org/story/11/04/19/2231240/Michigan-Police-Could-Search-Cell-Phones-During-Traffic-Stops

The more data your phone collects, the more you risk giving to the State. All I carry is a disposable phone with the battery removed in the glove box for emergencies.

Of course, one *could* open the phone and disconnect pin 2 and pin 3 (the 'Data +' and 'Data -' pins) of the micro-USB connector. They can't slurp what they can't connect to. The phone would charge normally, but unless you install a secret/internal switch to re-enable the pins you won't get any data in or out of that connector.

When their toy fails to steal your data and they question you, just say "You broke my PHONE with that stupid toy!?!? What, are you gonna wreck my car or torch my house with some other new toys there, "Inspector Gadget"? I hope your department's budget can take the hit for a new phone!".

It's still a new device and patrol officers are likely unfamiliar enough with the finer points of the new concepts, equipment, & techniques involved here that they may just suddenly be in a hurry to be done with you and send you on your way in such a scenario.

I wonder when someone will publish a "Surviving The Police State For Dummies" how-to book.

"Interesting times", indeed.

Strat

The Point

[tripleevenfall]

The point is not what it's currently doing, the point is (a) what COULD be done (by Apple, a malevolent third party, whomever) simply because this information exists when it should not and (b) whether this level of personal tracking information should be stored in the first place without it being clear to the user.

Re:The Point

[ubernostrum]

because this information exists when it should not

So far as I can tell, this data is basically just a cache of the stuff the Assisted GPS would otherwise have to go fetch via slower means. That's a tradeoff I'd happily make as a developer (since, really, how often is the location of a cell tower going to change, that you'd need to manually figure it out every time?), and that I have no problem with as an end user.

Re:The Point

[mjwx]

because this information exists when it should not

So far as I can tell, this data is basically just a cache of the stuff the Assisted GPS would otherwise have to go fetch via slower means.

It's a cache that doesn't overwrite itself or roll every x days.

Wait, didn't we used to call that a database.

Bullshit

[vadim_t]

All the post shows is that the tracking still happens, it just isn't very accurate.

The data seems good enough to tell where you've been, just maybe not good enough to track your exact whereabouts by the minute. So maybe it takes note of the position at the times the GPS chip already happens to be active, and not constantly at regular intervals like a proper tracker would.

Still that seems to do nothing to disprove that the phone's location is being logged often enough to figure out where you've been, and to me it still amounts to a huge violation of privacy.

He mentions Android doing the same. That's no excuse, if Android does that it also should stop doing it.

Re:Bullshit

[mini me]

GPS chip

I don't think it records anything form the GPS. The points recorded on my device line up exactly with cell tower locations; none of which I have stepped foot under –and some located in places I have never been.

Why it is recording tower locations is another matter. The most logical reason is background location services. Firing up the radio or GPS to get your location is taxing on the battery. Looking at a file with your current location is not.

It's based on tower+wifi coordinates, not GPS

[tlhIngan]

Still waiting for an Apple statement on why (is it a bug in the opt-in? why?), but there are some things that just a bit of rational thinking would do about this...

First - it can't use GPS - otherwise your battery will be dead in a few hours. So its location mechanism must be non-GPS based. Common reports are that it's based on the towers your phone attaches to.

Second - it's probably not recording all the time. Again, your battery will be dead way too quickly because powering up the main CPU to record the data down into the filesystem database takes a lot of power. It's probably recording the times you actually are using the phone - playing music, watching movies, surfing, using an app, etc. Locked and quiescent, it's probably not recording anything.

This would explain the widly different results people are seeing. Some people get tons of missing tracks because their phone's in standby state, and any towers you pass by are lost.

Others see their every move because their phones are playing MP3s and other things, where the main CPU is alive and can do these things.

Still doesn't make it right, though. But some food for thought on why people seem to have wildly different results.

Perspective

[bennomatic]

It's interesting that on /. when the Fukushima reactor issue began, there appeared to be two camps forming: one that said, "maybe we should be concerned about this,' and another that said, "fucking libtards are going to use this as an excuse to push for tougher limitations on the expansion of nuclear power in other countries!"

With this issue, the two camps appear to be coming down to, "this may not be a huge issue; hopefully Apple will begin truncating this file with an upcoming update" and "fucking Apple fanbois will take anything that His Steveness rams up their rear! This is an outrage!"

It'd be interesting to track the outrage quotient on various issues and see where various /. users land on that chart. I wonder how many people who are vigorously defending nuclear power are busting a blood vessel over this iPhone thing.

Re:Anyone tried the Android version?

[subspacemsg]

Yes i just dumped out the data from my Android Phone, it's got 3 days worth of location information. It does not have GPS based location, seems like a temp cache for Apps to get location based on Cell tower/Wifi data. The Iphone data described seems far more extensive.....

I'm not panicing

[northernfrights]

I'm pissed off. I don't care if it only records 1 coordinate per day. I should have every right not to have my location recorded in an unencrypted file without my knowledge, period.

Not remotely the same thing

[jdev]

The info on Android phones is totally different from iPhones. The infamous iPhone log file records your complete geo-location history since you started using your phone. The Android log file just records your recent coordinates and it overwrites itself regularly.

So even if you get root access on an Android phone, you only end up getting your current location. Most people allow apps to have that permission anyways.

The info on the iPhone is a huge privacy concern. The Android file is a non-issue.

Re:Blinders

[Raffaello]

No blinders, a form that *recently* came out of a computer and was stamped proves nothing.

What proves birth is determined by the laws of that state. By Hawaii law, the state checks the original which is kept on file, and then issues the certified copy, which is what Obama published. I have a birth certificates for my children. They are not the original, but are certified records with the seal of the state attorney general. Guess what - the US State Department had no problem accepting them for purposes of obtaining a passport.

 

Is he a Kenyan usurper of the U.S. presidency?

No, he was born in Hawaii. Even Michele Bachmann says so. This makes you officially more wacky than Michele Bachmann, and that's saying a lot.

The guy is a former Apple employee

[Llamakiller-4]

His defense of the data tracking should be taken with a grain of salt, he plainly states that he was an employee of Apple at one time.
His Faq
http://caffeine.shugendo.org/about//.

  If you arent made aware of it, and able to turn it off - then it's intrusive.

Re:Anyone tried the Android version?

[bennomatic]

No, it's actually more. I just ran the analyzer and it shows my trip to the SF Bay Area in January. I'm sure, like many other are saying, that it's just a cell-tower-location-caching system. But it'd be nice if stuff like this were auto-purged after a few days.

So it's not Literal but Figurative

[Duncan J Murray]

TFA seems only to prove that Apple is not 'tracking your every move' in the literal sense, they are just 'tracking your every move within the accuracy a phone on standby is able to, aggregated to a weekly basis'. Oh, well that's ok, if it's that inaccurate, surely my privacy isn't threatened! The writer is an apologist for Apple - after all, why end it with 'well if that argument didn't convince, someone else is doing it too! If everyone's doing it, it must be right!' (majorly paraphased).

People are also concluding that this data isn't 'phoned home'. But I don't believe they have the sourcecode for the software on their iphone, and if they did, that they have looked through it.

And as for the parent - your 'cell'phone provider needs to know where you are in order to supply your 'cell'. Not saying that justifies them keeping a record of it, but on the other hand, your bank has a record of all the transactions you have made involving your bank account. I'm not sure what justification a cellphone maker has to record your whereabouts.

Rotten Apple

[ninejaguar]

According to Apple, Apple sends itself your precise location data and shares that location data with whoever it wants to...

http://markey.house.gov/docs/applemarkeybarton7-12-10.pdf

As far as I know, Apple isn't the phone company and shouldn't be in the business of tracking its users from cell tower to cell tower or Wi-Fi to Wi-Fi.

What if Toyota or GM or Ford started tracking the users of its cars? How freaky would that be? Actually, if they partner with Apple, they can track you in your car. That Orwellian 1984 Ad from Apple, back in 1984, really makes sense now...except the roles are reversed. If Google does this too, then Rotten Google indeed.

Precise Orwellian location tracking, massive sales in authoritarian China...hmm...
http://techland.time.com/2011/04/21/iphone-growth-suddenly-soaring-in-china/

= 9J =

Re:Rotten Apple

[ninejaguar]

if that info is being used for other things (by Apple which has demonstrable need for the info local to the phone, or by Google which has demonstrable need for the info at their map-servers), or by third parties (who don't have legitimate need, in which case this is an Apple security bug, but the "spy on you" piece of evil intent goes to the third party NOT Apple), that's news. The fact that the info is there at all? Not news.

Capability does not prove intent.

Are you serious? We're talking about a for-profit company. Grow up. Apple stated in that PDF link that they will share this info with whoever they damn well please. Based on your argument, that "spy on you" complicity makes Apple intently evil.

the bug may simply be that this buffer isn't being flushed as anticipated

And, no, it isn't a bug...again, if you just read Apple's PDF, they tell you it's intended. Maybe this will help, but I'm beginning to doubt it seeing a pattern in your thoughts:

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/04/apple-iphone-tracking/

Like OnStar?

Are you able to tell the difference between an expensive service that you want to intentionally subscribe to and knowingly pay for, and an unwanted security risk that shows up on the news to surprise everyone because it's first time the public has ever heard of it?

is there a similar location cache on Android? If so, the screech should be just as loud outside of Google's offices and every cell provider's offices. If it's evil for Apple to do, it is equally evil for Google to do, and you either call out both of them or neither of them. Selecting just one reveals the color of one's kneepads.

I thought I did say that Google would be rotten for doing it, but your own screeching must've blinded you. Oh, wait crapple-fanboy-syndrome stuck in a logical loop.

= N9 =

What difference does it make?

[Tangential]

Get over it.

When you decided to turn on a cell phone, you gave up any semblance of privacy that your location has. Worst of all, that data isn't stored in a file you can clear on your phone...It is stored in servers at kind and gentle companies like AT&T and Verizon where it is imminently available to most any agency that needs it.

Google sets cookies in your browser and tracks your location by IP address on every query you make (or map you hit or gmail you read or ...) Your ISP does much the same thing. How are they less dangerous to your privacy?

If you really want to remain anonymous and not be tracked then don't have or use a cell phone or 3G data service. Don't have any internet service. Constantly clear your browser temp files/data and store them only in a ram disk. Also, change your mac address every time you connect in any way to the internet. Better yet. Pick a random library and use their computer.

Staying away from credit/debit cards would be a good idea as well. Just use cash and buy gift cards.

My personal experience

[RogueWarrior65]

Much of the data is bogus. I looked at my iPad and it's got data points where I know the device has never been. Furthermore, it's missing a ton of data for where I know it has been. Finally, the dates are all wrong. IMHO, this would never hold up in court.