Steve Jobs: 'We Don't Track Anyone'

fysdt writes "There has obviously been a lot of discussion about last week's disclosure that iOS devices are maintaining an easily-accessible database tracking the movements of users dating back to the introduction of iOS 4 a year ago. The issue has garnered the attention of US elected officials and has played fairly heavily in the mainstream press. One MacRumors reader emailed Apple CEO Steve Jobs asking for clarification on the issue while hinting about a switch to Android if adequate explanations are not forthcoming. Jobs reportedly responded, turning the tables by claiming both that Apple does not track users and that Android does, while referring to the information about iOS shared in the media as 'false.'" Apple has now been hit with a class-action lawsuit over the location-tracking issue.

Comments

Not anyone, really

[nastro]

Not one specific person, anyway. More like "everyone". See the difference?

Re:Not anyone, really

[tripleevenfall]

I know you're joking, but this is probably the simple answer.

Apple, Facebook, Google, etc., all see the massive market that is the sale of data mined from consumer behavior. The next step after being caught collecting this data will probably be to claim that it's non-specific, it can't be used to identify you *personally*, and that you've agreed to all of this when you agreed to the TOS/EULA/whatever.

I'm out of the smartphone biz as soon as my replacement phone arrives by UPS, personally... they're too expensive per month for someone who's usually near a PC to be used simply as ad-serving platforms

What's that about two wrongs?

[guspasho]

Is it even important whether Google does it or not? It's still wrong.

Re:What's that about two wrongs?

[guspasho]

Disabling Location Services does not disable the data collection that everyone is objecting to. It's been tested. Sorry. If only it was actually that easy, then the only problem would be the lack of encryption.

Re:Apple says...

[Ynot_82]

...and we can see you're holding it wrong
And you're wearing the same T-shirt 2 days running

Care for facts?

[joh]

It has meanwhile been debunked that this file tracks the location of the iPhone. It draws a map of locations of cell towers. The positions in this file are not the position of the iPhone when the user used a location app, the positions are the locations of the cell towers the iPhone saw in this moment. This is pretty clear now. The cell tower ID is the UNIQUE ID of the database, there are only clusters of tower locations saved at the same time with locations miles apart and NONE of these are the actual position of your phone.

Some real world testing: http://www.willclarke.net/?p=247

And yes, this also paints a rough picture of where you used location services, because only the stations around the places where you used location services are in this database. But: The stations are miles around your real position and since there is no signal strength info saved triangulation is not possible. I have found stations recorded that were up to ten miles away from my true position and hardly any stations nearer than half a mile (you'd need to stand right under a cell tower and use Google Maps there to have the position of the iPhone and the tower match by accident, so this happens almost never and the data shows exactly that).

So: The iPhone builds a local database with a network topography map and never throws it away. If it would throw that info away it would need to ask external databases (of Google or SkyHook) instead to learn the coordinates of the towers that it sees. By doing so it would neccessarily TELL these providers where it is.

Basically you have the choice of your phone tracking you (very roughly) in an internal database or have someone else providing an external database and by this tracking your phone. The iPhone does the first, Android does the latter (and Android even sends the Unique Device ID along). Believe it or not, but technically Jobs is right. The iPhone tracks you in an internal database, but with Android Google tracks your phone in external databases.

I don't expect many people to understand that though. Even with much explaining to basically neutral people hardly more than 5 of ten understand how positioning works and what it implies. Or what a "Unique Device ID" is.

Re:How does it differ? No difference to discern.

[Superken7]

"And then you proceed to not back up your claim with any actual data."

"The difference is I'll bet from an Android app I could read that cache and from iOS you cannot."

Well, I wish you had backed up your claim with actual data, as you say.

Author of the tool that reads android's location file says: "You will need root access to the device to read this directory." Which means you can't do that with an app.
To make things even funnier, its *almost* the other way around. From your desktop, any app could read your iphone's location data from any of your iTunes backups. ;)

Re:Steve Jobs should let Apple know that

[_xeno_]

They mean anonymous as in it isn't directly tied to your name.

It turns out they even explicitly explain this. Not quite as clearly, of course, but, from the Apple Privacy Policy again:

We also collect non-personal information -- data in a form that does not permit direct association with any specific individual. We may collect, use, transfer, and disclose non-personal information for any purpose. The following are some examples of non-personal information that we collect and how we may use it:

* We may collect information such as occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, location, and the time zone where an Apple product is used...

So, yeah - the unique device ID is gathered along with your location, and this is considered "non personal information" - a.k.a. anonymous information.

So I suppose what Jobs is saying is, technically, true: Apple isn't tracking you. They're just tracking your phone.