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Your Location 'Extremely Valuable' To Google
An anonymous reader writes "Google recently wrote off concerns about its mobile devices sending precise user location data back to its servers, but recently uncovered emails illustrate that user location is instrumental in its strategy. Andy Rubin, Senior Vice President of Mobile at Google, wrote to Larry Page, founder and now CEO, explaining that location data from mobile phones was 'extremely valuable to Google,' especially given the privacy blow-up concerning its Street View cars at the time."
Considering I'm in China right now...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
. . . had been more of an early adopter. . .
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells by the seashore.
I'm at home on my computer.
slashdot you owe me like 20 billion dollars now btw, i know how much this stuff is worth cause i read about it on slashdot.
sigs... don't talk to me about sigs....
It should be illegal to collect and retain location data of any kind on anyone for any reason short of a duly issued warrant. Maps,etc, can query Google and info returned, just no logs kept at all. Why not? The only people that would be against this are people that want to maintain control of some kind. Smartphones are just the thin edge of a wedge of the death of personal privacy.
Let's see, your smartphone is:
1. a location-tracking device showing where you are, have been, and may be going
2. a veritable microphone listening device
3. a record of who you know and communicate with
What more could they want? People say the data these devices generate and store won't be misused. Bah! They are misused everyday and everyone knows it. The fact this stuff has come to light will in no way alter, stop, or slow down the tracking of people. We need some serious privacy laws, even more strict that say, Germany, has. People have a right to not be tracked and databased at every turn. This is the reason I have basically stopped using Google products.
TFA only quotes 4 words that are in the email, and completely fails to mention any other details.
Every piece of information about your customers/users is extremely valuable. But it depends on what you do with it; how you get it; and how you protect it.
Its no surprise that if you know where someone is you can deliver more targeted results. Is this really news? Besides, Google has a good track record of protecting consumer privacy and making it clear what they collect. Apple collected all their data without telling users and Facebook has a track record of both violating privacy as default policy and refusing to share it with others.
Of *course* your location is important to them. Google is an advertising company; geographically targeted adverising is in high demand.
The issue people have is when Google (or anyone else) collects this data without any consent, and without adequate warning that it is being collected.
Google is also keeping all of the money for itself, and is not passing any of it on to the users who supplied the data. If your smartphone paid you cash for every day you allow them to track your data, people would not be objecting so loudly.
much easier than lemmings, one can barely begin to get any sense that we're alive to begin with, except that we keep buying stuff (even total bullshit), & getting sicker, scareder, wetter etc... fortunately, there's lots more room in southern hillary, once our devolution is deemed complete, by our rulers..
Guess we misunderstood. It's "don't get caught doing evil..."
I didn't realize my location was so valuable. So where's MY share of the money?!
Sanity.html - Error 404 not found
They are not named cell phones because they can be smuggeld easy into a prison cell, they are called that way because the phone can determine easily what cell it it in. Telephone carriers always had access to this information. You might not have been aware that that data was available and stored. (e.g. in poland you can see the streetname you are walking in because the cell are note named ONLY after the provider).
The whole problem is that companies should announce that they collect this information and what they are doing with this information. Announcing that this information is anonymously shared with partners in a 40 pages eula is too vague. maybe an opt-out should be available I am not sure about that.
Not using products fromx.com is not the solution. (x in apple, google, RIM )
Well...duh!
Is there an android app where I can make my phone report a location of my choosing, rather than where I really am?
... it must be o.k. After all, if you can't trust a company with a motto like "Don't be evil", who could you trust. It did occur to me though, that if you wanted to be evil, "Don't be evil" would probably be a pretty good motto.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Apple is in the business of selling hardware and software. Theirs is a Business-to-Consumer model.
Google is in the business of selling you. Theirs is a Business-to-Business model, like the fisherman who puts a free worm on his hook, catches the fish, and sells it to market. Unfortunately for the fish, it never questioned why a free worm was just sort of dangling there in the water.
Google provides free software, e-books, search engines, etc., as its bait. And based upon your slavish fanboi gushing, you've fallen for it hook, line, and sinker...
Wasn't Android going to be open? Why are you keeping HoneyComb's source code locked behind the Google doors? Fucking hypocrite!
Your location 'extremely valuable' to Google
That's right, asset tracking is important.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
From the paper that obtained the emails: http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_17960065
FBI? Police? Divorce lawyer? Boss? Neighbor? Retailers? Stranger who finds your phone?
You personally may be reason to worry. And any escalation of private data collection needs to be considered carefully - it is just a step, and there will be future steps based on acceptance of this one. Being concerned is probably appropriate, but panicking is probably an overreaction.
But for most of your "enemies" this is not something to worry about. Your wife, boss, and neighbor don't have access to this data unless you end up in court and you probably did something else to tip them off first and in the past they could have hired someone to follow you.
FBI & police have been tracking people pretty well for a long time with credit card purchases, phone taps, security cameras, cell phone location, door-to-door interviews, APBs, etc. If you're running from them, you probably avoid these. But if they want to find out where you were all day last Tuesday when you weren't trying to avoid them, they can probably get as close as google's data.
Stores have been tracking you with credit cards, loyalty cards, etc. They probably don't care what you did all day.
A hacker breaking into google's data may be able to find patterns to know when someone is not at home or is on a deserted street. But it's probably a lot more effort and more dangerous to use that than search for credit cards in the data. They'd want to do a stakeout anyhow to verify so why not pick a target first rather than using location data to pick a random target.
If it's so valuable to them, how much will they pay me for it?
There's an android app that lets you report no location at all. It's called 'Your Phone's Settings Menu'.
What does Google have to do with the Apple fiasco?
If it's so valuable, how about they start a service where they pay for it directly. You sign up, and you get x dollars every day you let them track your location data.
... because you are a milche cow who is happy eating the free grass, chewing the cud and being milked twice a day. You don't stop to wonder what is beyond the barbed wire of your life and cannot imagine that things could be anything other than what they are. You accept completely the farmer's roll bringing you in to the milking shed and his warm hands on your udder as you are distracted by what's in the trough in front of you. After all, all the other milche cows accept it don't they.
You go on chewing the cud. You're happy enough.
But for most of your "enemies" this is not something to worry about. Your wife, boss, and neighbor don't have access to this data unless you end up in court and you probably did something else to tip them off first and in the past they could have hired someone to follow you.
Think so? Its very easy to get information out of the police or FBI with the right connections and a little social engineering. While that information isn't of any use as evidence, I can think of a few cases where I don't want third parties knowing where I'm going or who I'm talking to.
Have gnu, will travel.
Really.
There are 3 locations services available on my Android Fascinate.
Each one must be *explicitly* enabled. Each one gives you it's own separate, readable, intelligible, and concise warning regarding the usage of the location data.
One is Google, one is Verizon, and one is Stand-alone.
If you disable both Google's *and* VZW's...you can still use your location-based apps.
There is nothing to see here.. Move along...
The problem, however, is not if, but when the data fall into the wrong hands, or not if, but when the data is compromised. The data is precise enough that Kamkar says Google not can, but will correlate timing and frequency of phone usage to pinpoint an Android owner's home address. "When your phone is at the same location during night hours, they know where you live," says Kamkar. "When your phone location is on the move, they will guess that you're in a car and even calculate how fast your car is moving."
"I cannot stress enough how important Google's wifi location database is to our Android and mobile product strategy," Google location manager Steve Lee told founder Page in the memo. "We absolutely do care about this because we need wifi data collection in order to maintain and improve our wifi location service."
It's not a database of your location, it's a crowd-sourced database of positioning information used to help users determine their location. When you encounter a previously unrecorded wifi network or somesuch and you're using this feature (it has a disclaimer about this), you anonymously add it to Google's database so other users using the feature can triangulate their position that much faster. There's a concern in the article that someone could hijack this process on Google's end and record personal information, but as far as we know from these emails and what they've said publicly, this information isn't being kept, in fact there's an encryption scheme to protect it. It's different from the Apple issue where the information was a) unencrypted b) identifiable (because it's on your phone) c) timestamped (and therefore more useful than "here's everywhere I've been in my life!") There's certainly the issue of privacy for the wifi network owners, but my point is the summary's misrepresenting the story here.
Sendou Wave Kick!!
There is a dialog when you first boot your new Android phone asking if you consent to your new phone collecting anonymous location based data, for the purpose of sending it back Google to enhance services. I selected "No" and went on to the next screen. Now there's more of an issue if they collect and send the data anyway, after the user has opted out. TFA even states that users are able to opt out at any time, by selecting a setting on their phones. The point is that users are given warning, and an easy opt out dialog. It's easier than opting out of junk mail from your cell phone provider or refi options from your mortgage lender.
Most ignorance is vincible ignorance. We don't know because we don't want to know. --Aldous Huxley
The infrastructure needed to keep tabs on everyone takes years to design and build. But once it's there all it takes is a decision by some jerk in power in order to changes its use.
It's the fact that it exists at all that bothers me. If it didn't exist no government would have an easy ride imposing on the population. While it's there we have every reason to be worried.
I like knowing where I am. I'm ok with google knowing it to provide services and highly localized advertising too.
I'm ok with google knowing where I spend 20+ hours a week too. That's home and work, so they can advertise relevant-to-me offers.
I'm not ok with google keeping track of where I've been longer than a week ago. That data needs to be removed, automatically.
It would be nice if I could tell google that I'm planning a trip to city-X in a month so I could get offers. I'd like to TELL them this, not have them assume it or know it.
It would be nice if I could tell travel companies that I'd like to go on a 12-14 day trip to South America or Europe in 3 months with some specific budget. I'd love to get offers around that too, provided the price limit wasn't exceeded. A travel-watcher bot would be really nice.
Ok - but say I actually wanted location-based services, but not necessarily for the location I'm in.
Like I work in the south-east bay but live in, and expect to have dinner in, and do most of my shopping in San Francisco.
It'd just about always be more useful for me if my phone thought I'm near where I live than where I work.
Me no worry, I have a concealed handgun license so come at me bro!
Here in the UK you cannot file company accounts through the post any more. It all has to be done on line. I don't get a choice in the matter. The same is true of many other obligatory services. That means I have to gain access to the internet and for practical purposes that means I am obliged to have a computer and an internet connection. It is near to inconceivable that anyone could use the internet without using a search engine and email. I don't have much of a choice in the matter - and where there is some choice most people are technically ignorant of the consequences.
The politicians don't care because generally they are in with big business in that they both want more spending. Business wants it because it is more money for them. Government want it because it means more tax revenue for the government to spend on grand projects to establish their legacy and establish infrastructure for their kith and kin to benefit.
1-Get a cell registered to someone who doesn't know you (bonus points if it is registered to someone who knows the victims, extra bonus points if it is registered to the person being framed). If you're a cop, that should be cake.
2-Drive to the house of the person you want to frame, and call victim number two a few times with a voice synthesizer. Use the anonymous function, which is really only anonymous to the person receiving the call.
3-Do something nasty to victim number two, carrying the phone to the crime scene. (killing would be ideal)
4-Put a password to block the cell phone. Go to the framed guy's house and drop the cell in his mail box, so he gets his fingerprints on it.
5-Drop the synthesizer in his trash can during the night.
6-Tip the police before his trash is collected.
The framed guy and victim number two would have to have some previous grievance between them, but that would be all.
It's HTML5. It supports geolocation, but it asks if you want to share that information. If you answer yes on a PC, the server is sent the location of your ISP and that is nothing new or dramatic. HTML5 also mentions the accuracy of this information, which could be something like a 20km radius.
If however you share it on a smartphone with built-in GPS, the information can be just as accurate as normal GPS. This can be used for the old Big Brother is Watching You schemes, or it can be used for annotated reality.
Unless your web browser or user isn't trustworthy, there's no problem in the short term. However, most users default to saying "yes" to anything to make the bloody thing work, so there will be a big enough market for corruption here too.
All rites reversed 2010
Enemies? Enemies? Who the h@ll needs enemies these days? All El Goog needs to do is sell my info to marketers and insurance salesmen and they'll make my life just that much worse. Enemies are people who pester and bother you because they hate you and want you to suffer. The rest of the world does it because they don't know any better.
Enemies! Bah!
We are all being tracked, everyday, in one way or another.
We have video cameras everywhere. We carry cellphones, we use the internet from those cellphones, home network, & on the run with a laptop/netbook/tablet. Yes, those tell your location also, based on where you connected at.
Your credit cards? Wow, they keep track of your purchases, been doing that for decades.
Get used to it. It's never going back to how it was, the genie is out of the bottle.
And as tech gets more advanced, they'll find it easier to track us.
If you don't want to be found, don't stay connected.
Don't have a cellphone, don't use the internet, don't use credit cards.
Can't live like that? Then quit your bitching, get used to it. Or god forbid, you actually do something other then cry.
Be seeing you...
Yes, this information could have been dug up on you before, but consider your example of your wife used to have to hire someone to follow you. To get to that point she had to have enough suspicions to lay down a few hundred in order to have them confirmed. Now she'll just plug your iphone into her computer while your in the shower and find out where you've been.
Although that was another article, the situation and fears are the same. The easier it gets to know information about people, the less your enemies, friends, potential employers, advertisers, government, etc have to work to dig up the information, the less they'll weigh whether they are invading your privacy or if it is really worth the effort.
Search for "My Fake Location". As far as anyone knows, I'm about four feet from the window of the Oval Office in Washington, DC (38.89754, -770365).
Dear Google: How much do you bid for this "extremely valuable" information? And how much will you bid when my location changes? And continues to change? Are we talking annual lease or month-to-month? Will you sign the EULA for it?
As soon as i get my andriod phone i will start sending a bill to google for my data tariff and my location infomation if it that valuable i am sure they will pay for it.
Google et al provide their services for free, to bait the customer into giving up data, and then sell that data to other businesses; they are, in that sense, an advertising and marketing analysis company.
But to some of us, our data is dear. I, for one, would be willing to fork out a reasonable sum, say, US$40-80 a year, to have access to Google's products, while having a contractual guarantee that they won't keep logs about me at all, or even better, that they won't even record such logs, except as explicitly authorized by me. (I may, for example, want the security log of where my gmail account was accessed from, to remain). There should be a menu offering the paying user the choice regarding what may or may not be logged, and the ability to delete those logs, if any, even from backups. This will require a different kind of backup architecture, but should be feasible. For a small premium, all stoired information should be encrypted, with decryption happening in the client, so that the information is entirely unreadable to Google.
Alternatively, it's time for someone to put together a competitive OSS package that has a full fledged alternative to GMail, GCal, GDocs, and GMaps - there are already better alternatives to GSites and Picasa - so that we can host them on our own remote servers.