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Did Some Black Holes Survive the Big Bang?

astroengine writes "Could anything survive from one universe to the next, through a Big Crunch and resulting Big Bang? According to two researchers, a special class of pre-Big Bang black hole may have the ability to traverse the Big Bang singularity. The upshot is that there may be black holes that existed before the Big Bang knocking around in our modern universe. What's more, we might be able to detect them through the theorized gamma-ray burst produced when these pre-Big Bang black holes evaporate out of existence. But how would we distinguish between these black holes and the primordial black holes thought to be produced after the Big Bang? Well, that's just too confusing right now."

188 comments

  1. Easy to distinguish... by Tim+the+Gecko · · Score: 5, Funny

    Pre-existing black holes aren't covered by the Universe's health insurance.

    1. Re:Easy to distinguish... by Attack+DAWWG · · Score: 1

      YOU LIE!

    2. Re:Easy to distinguish... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is not true. Not true.

    3. Re:Easy to distinguish... by sjames · · Score: 1

      So you're saying that for contractual purposes, all black holes pre-existed the universe?

    4. Re:Easy to distinguish... by uncanny · · Score: 1

      So they go to a public galaxy and everyone else takes care of it!

    5. Re:Easy to distinguish... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry. There is hope for them. They have convinced the government to declare their pre-existence a non-problem, but as a consequence all stars, planets, and even asteroids must pay for excessive gravity insurance to cover the costs.

    6. Re:Easy to distinguish... by calderra · · Score: 1

      You know what's interesting? The next generation of Americans won't know the term "pre-existing", as it applies to insurance. That usage has become an artifact of our time.

    7. Re:Easy to distinguish... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure. It's just ink.

    8. Re:Easy to distinguish... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't worry. There is hope for them. They have convinced the government to declare their pre-existence a non-problem, but as a consequence all stars, planets, and even asteroids must pay for excessive gravity insurance to cover the costs.

      That, in fact, is what happened to the missing mass.

  2. Who knew? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I assumed the only black hole left was the one sucking all the brains from Donald Trump.

    1. Re:Who knew? by c0lo · · Score: 2

      I assumed the only black hole left was the one sucking all the brains from Donald Trump.

      Blackhole sucking void? That is a new concept.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    2. Re:Who knew? by Sulphur · · Score: 1

      I assumed the only black hole left was the one sucking all the brains from Donald Trump.

      Blackhole sucking void? That is a new concept.

      Black holes can collide.

    3. Re:Who knew? by OeLeWaPpErKe · · Score: 1

      Blackhole sucking void? That is a new concept.

      No actually, that is not a new concept at all. Besides if there truly are pre-existing black holes, the fact that they "suck void" is the only hope we have of detecting their presence. Given that all matter surrounding these black holes would have been removed during the singularity normal ways of detecting them, by their accretion discs, will fail.

  3. Current theory says the universe expands forever by syousef · · Score: 2, Informative

    So there may not be multiple big bangs. In which case their ability to survive is moot.

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  4. In the name of Political Correctness... by tetrahedrassface · · Score: 1, Funny

    We can't release a photo of this as it may incite other, more restive black holes into action.

    1. Re:In the name of Political Correctness... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck Islam. How's that for incitement? Show me Osama's new cranial sunroof!

    2. Re:In the name of Political Correctness... by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Fuck Islam. How's that for incitement? Show me Osama's new cranial sunroof!

      I bet Al Qaeda are shitting their pants knowing you're on their case.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  5. huh by Choin · · Score: 0

    ...What?

  6. What primordial black holes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Primordial black holes produced after the Big Bang? How is that possible? I thought the biggest clump of matter that the big bang produced was lithium nuclei.

    1. Re:What primordial black holes? by dido · · Score: 2

      The theory goes that in the very early universe, temperatures and pressures were so high that even small fluctuations in the density of matter would have resulted in local regions becoming dense enough to collapse into black holes. The time period considered here is long before any nucleosynthesis occurred: in fact temperatures and pressures were so high in this period that the strong nuclear force is not yet able to confine quarks into hadrons.

      These tiny primordial black holes would not, contrary to popular conception, simply suck in everything around them. A typical black hole of this type would have a mass of about a billion tons (about the mass of a mid-sized asteroid), and have an event horizon smaller than the diameter of a proton. With mass that low its gravity would be correspondingly low and its interaction with normal matter very feeble. They should, however, be emitting large amounts of gamma rays if the theory of Hawking radiation is correct, and that might be one way that they'd be detected.

      --
      Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
  7. They all survive Big Bang!!!! by syousef · · Score: 0

    ...season to season. They're signed for something like 7 seasons. Even though the show has gone down hill it still has it's moments.

    I think Johnny Galecki and Jim Parsons are going to be just fine post Big Bang, but if you've heard Kaley Cuoco's rendition of "Somewhere over the rainbow", you'll realise that her career is headed for a big a black hole once the show ends

    --
    These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
  8. Re:Some did. by _merlin · · Score: 1

    That was a gangbang they survived - not quite as dramatic as the big bang.

  9. I get it! by MrQuacker · · Score: 1
    The universe is actually a multidimensional doughnut, and black holes act as drains. Matter goes in, and exits on the other side of the doughnut, to repeat the cycle.

    We just cant comprehend it because of the complexity of the multidimensionality of it all.

    1. Re:I get it! by Fractal+Dice · · Score: 1

      It's a nice image, but do you have any proof? What does such a multiverse actually predict that we can measure?

    2. Re:I get it! by lasinge · · Score: 1

      It sort of satisfies my curiousity of why there'd only be 3 apparent space dimensions if you will, and why only one time dimension which apparently only goes one way? Maybe we are in a special case of a much larger more multidimensional universe. Pure speculation of course, I admit that I have no more proof than the last guy, but it can't hurt to imagine.

      --
      you are in a twisty maze of different passages.
    3. Re:I get it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can we prove that time only goes one way? If we can prove that the speed of light isn't a universal constant then who are we to say that the rest of what we know of the universe isn't as flexible? Time goes which way it will for us because that is how our four-dimensional minds perceive it. The universe is just beginning to unfold its secrets to us and we have no real clue how anything works outside of our own perception of it.

    4. Re:I get it! by mywhitewolf · · Score: 1

      wouldn't it suggest sudden ejections of matter or energy? almost like the Hawkins radiation emitted by black holes?

    5. Re:I get it! by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Or, all the black holes tie back to one dimension. A dimension that's the start of another big bang. Once all the matter has been sucked in, and then the black holes themselves consolidate...the dimensional walls collapse and...BOOM! The cycle of cosmic rebirth begins anew.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    6. Re:I get it! by lasinge · · Score: 1

      I used weasel words there, I didn't claim that time went one way using the word apparently. And proving that light isn't a universal constant would be a big if, but sure that would be a game changer for relativity now wouldn't it.

      --
      you are in a twisty maze of different passages.
    7. Re:I get it! by aaronfaby · · Score: 1

      Mmmm.. donut.....

    8. Re:I get it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The speed of light isn't a universal constant. It depends on what it is traveling through. It travels slower in glass, water, etc. than air, and slower in air than in a vacuum. Some people have also theorized that it travels slower in strong magnetic fields than through weak ones, which would explain a lot of the relativistic effects currently attributed to time dilation.

    9. Re:I get it! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Black holes aren't actually holes, you know? They are just super dense spheres of collected matter.

  10. Old old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Read A Brief History of Time. Dated 1988
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Brief_History_of_Time

    Or this guy:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_M._Carroll#From_Eternity_To_Here

    Either way, this is OLD news

    1. Re:Old old news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The thing about science reporting is that the reporter gets an information dump along the lines of:
      1. Introduction to basic concepts
      2. Overview of research to date
      3. Novel result
      4. Possible implications of result

      The journalist then has to simplify it for "a general audience". #3 is very difficult to simplify, #2 is fairly difficult. #1 and #4 are easier to simplify. So after removing the "confusing bits" we have:
      1. Simple overview of field
      2. Brief mention of one previous result/theory
      4. Wild speculation about possible meaning or technology

      If the journalist needs to further condense, we get:
      1. A few facts from the field
      4. Wild speculation

      So everytime you read a piece of science/tech journalism, you're basically only reading about what has previously happened in the field, and about what the implications of the result might be. You then have to infer what the actual research might be, since it's not mentioned in the actual article. If you're lucky, they will mention a name and you can go find a real publication to inform you.

      All I'm saying is, don't assume there's nothing new/interesting there just because the writeup doesn't mention anything new/interesting. The mass-media level writeup will never discuss the actual result, only the stuff surrounding the result.

  11. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by TemperedAlchemist · · Score: 2, Informative

    Current theory relies on very limited information. http://xkcd.com/605/

  12. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, but Wang's second postulate is like a cat with nine lives...

  13. question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wasn't the "Big Crunch" itself a black hole?
    So, can black holes explode?
    Anyone ever see one explode?

    1. Re:question by mywhitewolf · · Score: 2

      IMO for the big bang theory and the singularity concept to work this should be observable.

      its also possible that a black hole is the threshold where space inverts, so inside a black hole is the opposite of outside, so what we perceive as the big bang is actually the creation of a black hole in the inverse space. and we are possibly inside a giant black hole, which would explain the background gamma radiation. this also allows for an oscillating universe which gives more support to the very nature of existence being independent of observation and frame-reference.

      but what would i know? i dropped out of high school in year 10.

    2. Re:question by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Wasn't the "Big Crunch" itself a black hole?

      No. A black hole is a singularity surrounded by an horizon, with space outside. The Big Crunch is a singularity, but where's the horizon and the outside space?

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    3. Re:question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From inside a black hole, you can't see the horizon or the space outside. In effect, they do not exist.

    4. Re:question by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Of course you can see the space outside. Light can fall in quite fine, it only can't come out.
      And if you don't believe me, please look at the spacetime diagram in coordinates appropriate for a falling observer.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  14. Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by wisebabo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So, if one model of the universe (currently out if favor) is correct that has it oscillating between big bangs and big crunches, would this be a way for sone super civilization to survive the end (big crunch) of the universe? The "Heechee" in Frederick Pohl's Gateway novels had them hiding out in black holes (though not for this reason). They were hiding out from another even more advanced race that had created the universe (which explained why the cosmological constant amongst other things was so finely tuned) and didn't want to be around when they came back to reclaim their "property".

    The Heechee had some way as well of getting OUT of these black holes (FTL travel?). Of course since the the latest models show the universe to be expending itself to smithereens even if you could hide out in a black hole, it is likely there would be literally nothing to come back to.

    By the way, does time stop completely below the event horizon? Might be another reason why hiding out in a black hole wouldn't be such a good idea.

    1. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      By the way, does time stop completely below the event horizon? Might be another reason why hiding out in a black hole wouldn't be such a good idea.

      Some say you eventually experience falling into it for eternity. If there really is a quantum unit of time and that's not merely a perceptual thing then you might be able to get stuck "forever". On the other hand, if there isn't, then you can decide any time to pop back out if you have the technology.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by caywen · · Score: 1

      Maybe, but they'd never survive the Coming of the Great White Handkerchief

    3. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a 'shell' of event horizon around the center of a black hole.
      You might pass the event horizon- without even knowing it!
      Unfortunately spaghettification would happen before getting to the singularity.
      It would only appear to an outside observer that time stopped for you, and you would appear to fall into it forever, when you might be sharing shots of Jameson with the Hechee.

    4. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is a lot of secret math in Pohl's Gateway.

      Time is subjective. To you it flows its normal course. The relativistic features you're thinking about involve people in different frames of reference. If you are in a widely different frame of reference from someone who matters to you, then it might matter - but that would be lack of foresight.

    5. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By the way, does time stop completely below the event horizon?

      In real (as opposed to sci-fi) physics, there's no way to get any information from below the event horizon. So there's no way to ever answer this question - and so the question is meaningless.

    6. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      go suck a dick, aspie

    7. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by vegiVamp · · Score: 2

      Just like Clarke writes science fiction? The whole idea of sf is to postulate about what might be possible.

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    8. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      Survive the Big Crunch? Impossible. There is absolutely no way to survive a Big Crunch.

      Great. Now I'm hungry.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    9. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By the way, does time stop completely below the event horizon? Might be another reason why hiding out in a black hole wouldn't be such a good idea.

      As I understand it, time doesn't stop anywhere, But time for one person, as observed by another, can appear to stop. As seen from the outside, time for the infalling person appears to slow and stop as they hit the event horizon. But for the person falling in, time continues to pass as always. If they can avoid the other unpleasant effects of black holes (spaghettification etc), they continue to fall "normally". It is just that they are in a different spacetime from which they can never (under current physics) send any form of message back to the spacetime they had come from. In the rubber sheet model, the depression formed by the black hole has "nipped off" and they are in an isolated bubble of universe with its own independent clocks. Current physics can make no coherent statement about the relationship of time in the two spaces

    10. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by mathimus1863 · · Score: 1

      By the way, does time stop completely below the event horizon? Might be another reason why hiding out in a black hole wouldn't be such a good idea.

      Amusingly, I just attended the last class before my final exam in general relativity, and all we talked about was the math behind black holes. Pretty interesting stuff, if only I could've understood all of it...

      It turns out that space and time actually switch inside a black hole. Your time vector becomes space-like and your spatial vectors become timelike. What does that mean? I'm not entirely sure, but I do know that there is no escape from hitting the singularity at the very middle of the black hole. Since time is always moving forward, and your radial distance from the center is now your time vector, you have no choice but to eventually hit the middle. So far, what is at the middle of a black hole is still a bit of a mystery.

      On a related note, the higher the gravity field you are in, the slower your time moves relative to observers outside that gravity field. Therefore, as you fall into a black hole, you will actually reach the event horizon in a finite amount of time (by your own watch), but a stationary observer from Earth watching you, will see everything slow down exponentially as you get closer to the event horizon. It slows down so much that they never actually see you hit the event horizon--it takes an infinite amount of Earth time for something to hit the event horizon. However, the infalling object experiences only a finite amount of time before getting to the event horizon, and then another finite amount of "time" before hitting the singularity at r=0. What happens there is still a matter of speculation.

    11. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      Therefore, as you fall into a black hole, you will actually reach the event horizon in a finite amount of time (by your own watch), but a stationary observer from Earth watching you, will see everything slow down exponentially as you get closer to the event horizon. It slows down so much that they never actually see you hit the event horizon--it takes an infinite amount of Earth time for something to hit the event horizon.

      Which leads to the question "How can a black hole ever be observed to come into existence?"

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    12. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2

      Actually, Frederick Pohl is one of the science fiction authors who did a very good job of placing his plots within the realm of possibility according to scientific theory of the time that he wrote the story. At one time there was a fairly large subsegment of science fiction authors who did this. I do not know if scientific theory has changed in such a way as to make the ideas in the Gateway series obsolete, but at the time it was written it was withing the realm of possibility (although no technology could at that time be conceived that would allow it).

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    13. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Galactus survived the Big Crunch, but then again, he had help from Death and Eternity.

    14. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      That's simple, we never actually observer the black hole or it's event horizon. We can only observer the matter and energy that surround it.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    15. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by bjorniac · · Score: 1

      The problem with big bang/big crunch is that really what we're saying is the physical equivalent of "Here there be dragons". We simply don't know what physics looks like at the Planck scale yet. Big bang/crunch are what happens if we trust GR way into the regime where we expect quantum gravity effects to be strong.

      Now there are various ideas about how a collapsing universe can transition into an expanding one - conformal cyclic cosmology, loop quantum cosmology, etc etc, and certainly within at least one of them (LQC) the connection - a bounce - would be survivable to a well built probe - see http://arxiv.org/abs/0901.2750 for example.

      However, I must stress that we have no data anywhere near the Planck scale, so we cannot yet test any of these models. The best we can do is look at things like the cosmic microwave background and try to see if there are any artifacts of quantum gravity there, but so far nothing is proven.

    16. Re:Way to survive the "Big Crunch"? by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > That's simple, we never actually observer the black hole or it's event horizon.

      That's not what I said. Let me try again. In order for a black hole to grow matter must cross the event horizon. However, it takes forever for matter to cross the horizon so all black holes must infinitesmally small (though some might be surrounded by millions of suns worth of matter that has almost crossed the horizon).

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  15. Intriguing .. by w0mprat · · Score: 1

    Could the supermassive black holes that likely exist in the centre of galaxies be these mutli-universe spanning black holes? If they survivied one big crunch, perhaps not allowing enough time for hawking evaporation, have they survived many universes?

    --
    After logging in slashdot still does not take you back to the page you were on. It's been that way for 20 years.
  16. Way to survive the "Big Blender"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Information could survive from one universe transition to another in the form of laws.

    1. Re:Way to survive the "Big Blender"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Information could survive from one universe transition to another in the form of laws.

      In fact, that might be where some of the RIAA related ones came from.

    2. Re:Way to survive the "Big Blender"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In conclusion, the copyright must be extended to space before the great singularity. The infinities involved are circumvented by quantum gravity and the residual, superposed information on the background radiation is encoded to everything that is and ever will be. Therefore the everything will be copyrighted to the eternity.
      --
      Your friend and representative of your owner, RIAA

  17. Civilization survival? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder if some type 4 civilizations could survive in the event horizon of such a black hole from the end of one universe to the next.

  18. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your statement about the future is unrelated to the past. (Quickest QED ever! ;)

    Anyway, the whole article is pseudo-scientific nonsense.
    Talking about what was "before" the big bang, is like talking about what is north of the north pole. And I paraphrase Hawking here.
    Time, according to our current theories, only started to exist with the big bang.
    And I can say with a lot of certainty, that I can prove that not only was there no cause for it, but there couldn't even have been a cause, since causality/time was infinitely uncertain. No causality, no cause.

  19. THE most important question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where, in these comments, is that new account troll who posts shortened URLs to his page with the gaytube embed?

    1. Re:THE most important question... by sonyispants · · Score: 0

      Sorry, busy with homework. Will be at your service shortly.

  20. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by kvvbassboy · · Score: 1

    Right. But, the article implies that at "0 + delta_t" seconds, where delta_t -> 0, there existed black holes. This will have a significant impact on how the universe expands.

  21. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by Rockoon · · Score: 1

    Indeed, and note that Hawking is talking not only of time, but of space too. Space-time could not exist before inflation.

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  22. Well it figures... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess Durandal really did figure out a way to escape the collapse onboard the Manus Celer Dei.

  23. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Space-time could not exist before inflation." Not *this* space-time, definitely. It doesn't make sense to speak of "before" the big bang in the sense of "before" being a construction meaning "closer in time to the big bang than the present."

    One theory posits that a sort-of mirror universe, where time and space are the 'negative' of time and space here, extend in the other direction from the big bang, going on forever (as t goes to -Inf). This isn't incompatible with the view that time starts with the big bang---there are simply two times, a positive and a negative one, that both start with the big bang.

  24. why is it by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Funny

    that i can never tell the difference between cosmology and the ramblings of a stoner?

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:why is it by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Because first you must get high to become one with the universe. Only then will it all start to make sense.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    2. Re:why is it by circletimessquare · · Score: 0

      look at my hands... our hands, human hands... did you ever actually look at your hands before? no i mean, really LOOK at them?

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    3. Re:why is it by hedwards · · Score: 2

      I really wish people would stop glorifying drug use like that. If you really want to get in touch with the universe there's better ways than that, ones which don't leave you brain damaged afterwards. Sure drugs can hit those spots of the brain that make you think you've met God, but seriously, is it really worth it when you consider the harm that a lot of those drugs do?

    4. Re:why is it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      double dream hands?

    5. Re:why is it by Esion+Modnar · · Score: 1

      Where do you think Carl Sagan got most of his ideas?

      --

      They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
    6. Re:why is it by TrekkieGod · · Score: 2

      [why is it] that i can never tell the difference between cosmology and the ramblings of a stoner?

      Because you haven't studied the field, so all you get are explanations meant for the layman?

      Seriously, if someone were to have shown you a page with differential equations back when the math you knew was limited to arithmetic would you be able to distinguish it from a page containing random symbols that looked math-like? Would you be able to tell which one represented something real and which one was BS? Well, the stoner ramblings is like the random page, and someone trained in physics and astronomy can tell the difference easily (although maybe not by the media summary, they often mangle things pretty badly).

      --

      Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

    7. Re:why is it by md65536 · · Score: 2

      Slashdot?

    8. Re:why is it by Sulphur · · Score: 2

      Where do you think Carl Sagan got most of his ideas?

      Billions and billions of Slashdots.

    9. Re:why is it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is all BS. Everything we humans have even known has been wrong. Why would we be correct this time? The stoner ramblings are just as likely to be true.

    10. Re:why is it by vegiVamp · · Score: 2

      Like alcolhol, nicotine and caffeine, you mean?

      --
      What a depressingly stupid machine.
    11. Re:why is it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "The illegality of cannabis is outrageous, an impediment to full utilization of a drug which helps produce the serenity and insight, sensitivity and fellowship so desperately needed in this increasingly mad and dangerous world." - Carl Sagan

      I really wish people would stop degrading the reputation of all drugs like you just did. Is it really worth being such a square, when you consider all the things you miss out on?

    12. Re:why is it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      go show me the evidence that cannabis use damages the brain please. Because all the reports in recent years have been showing the exact opposite.

    13. Re:why is it by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Don't forget sugar. When abused, that's a real killer right up to chain-smoking. Have you not seen the obesity epidemic (and everything along with it) growing among developing nations? Forget developed, I'm talking DEVELOPING. Seriously, the Chinese are turning into little fatties in all the major cities with fast food (HFCS) and re-processed foods.

      I hate to say it. But if it wasn't for the Chinese, I wouldn't have curtailed my sugar intake. Those poor SOBs are like a slow moving train wreck happing before my very eyes. Like a mirror to look into.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    14. Re:why is it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imagine the thunderous sound of billions and billions of Slashdots!

    15. Re:why is it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish people would over dramatizing drug use. Alcohol is far worse then DMT, Ecstacy, Cannabis etc

      Sure Heroin and Crystal Meth are bad but not all drugs aren't those, in fact most aren't.

    16. Re:why is it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is all BS.

      That's the hypothesis you wish to defend...

      Everything we humans have even known has been wrong.

      Supposition, with no supporting evidence. However, I'll take it is an axiom for the sake of argument.

      Why would we be correct this time?

      Not a valid inference unless you claim that all the reasons why we have been incorrect in the past still exist. However, if we modify your original axiom to "humans are always wrong" instead of "humans have in the past always been wrong" then you can make a Modus Ponens logical argument...

      The stoner ramblings are just as likely to be true.

      ...which would most certainly still not lead to this. That's a formal logical fallacy, the fallacy of four terms. You never introduced probabilities in the premises of your syllogism.

      Even if you think scientists are guessing, do you really believe an educated guess is no better than an uneducated one?

  25. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
  26. Is that code for a new position not in kamasutra? by youn · · Score: 1

    but maybe I got this wrong :)

    --
    Never antropomorphize computers, they do not like that :p
  27. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Expanding and accelerating. Perhaps the Big Bang didn't just start, but continues to this day. It just so happens that as each moment in time passes, the more warped and distorted the pace of time becomes the further you look back. That is to say, the pace of time is constantly moving forward as events take place. But from our perspective, it's constant. Can be a bit confusing, I know. Sorry.

  28. Looong inhale.... by Oligonicella · · Score: 4, Funny

    and hold.

    <tight>"Like, man. Maybe our universe is only a little speck in so other universe?"</tight>

    Exhale.

    "Dude. Wouldn't it be funny if we like wrote that up as a paper or something?"

    Thus stands most cosmological theory.

    1. Re:Looong inhale.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah it's some good shit, isn't it?

  29. Subject line here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This gives me hope, life could actually continue bang to bang if technology were sufficiently advanced before the collapse..

  30. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by slick7 · · Score: 1

    Current theory relies on very limited information. http://xkcd.com/605/

    Limited how?

    By what theories? The indigenous peoples have many theories of the universe. The Mayans, Incas, Egyptians, Babylonians, Sumerians, and their intelligent progenitors have many more. The history of the future is defined by the theories that are ignored.

    How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions? -RAH

    --
    The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
  31. Meaning is important here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A singularity is just a place where the math breaks. In other words, god only knows what the hell happened at the singularity -- all we can do is look where it's not. Since we're on this side of the Big Bang singularity, all we can look at is events inside a light cone constrained by our position, the current time, and the age of the universe since the Big Bang.

    Short version, their question is more philosophy than cosmology.

    1. Re:Meaning is important here by calderra · · Score: 1

      No. A singularity is the point at which *known* science breaks down. The math comes out with a bunch of infinities. But if gravity inside a singularity was infinite, we would have been pulled in a long time ago. So we know there's some kind of science to what happens inside a singularity, and we can even make very accurate predictions about what will happen to singularities based on initial mass and spin and so forth. We're just not sure yet how we're going to stick an instrument in there to get good measurements.

    2. Re:Meaning is important here by Gripp · · Score: 1

      actually its my understanding that the OP here is correct. as i understand, the term "singularity" was used for the big bang because of the math - it is a single point along the domain of the equation that is not valid (which, in math, is called a singularity). and we have no equations for what happened at that point. sure things, may "approach" infinity, but the fact that the math is not valid at that specific point is still true.

  32. Tolkien anyone? by Lord+of+the+Fries · · Score: 1

    ...
    One Hole to rule them all, One Hole to find them,
    One Hole to bring them all and in the blackness bind them
    Before the Big Bang where the Shadows lie.

    --
    One man's pink plane is another man's blue plane.
    1. Re:Tolkien anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "heat death" of the universe came to mind when I read the chant of the Barrow Wight. The Barrow-downs was by far the scariest part of the Lord of the Rings series. The cold stone, the race to get out before sunset, the fog, the cries of friends in the dark, being silenced one by one. And then this....

      ""Cold be hand and heart and bone
      and cold be sleep under stone
      never more to wake on stony bed
      never, till the Sun fails and the Moon is dead
      In the black wind the stars shall die
      and still be gold here let them lie
      till the Dark Lord lifts his hand over dead sea and withered land."

  33. lol. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what hole COULD survive a banging of that magnitude? :)

  34. go easy on the bong. by mevets · · Score: 2

    If you don't you'll have Bruce Lee worked into this scenario...

    1. Re:go easy on the bong. by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Of course we would, he was the original cause of the singularity expanding...

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  35. -1 buzzkill. by mevets · · Score: 2

    Its hardly glorifying it to associated with this fairy tale. But maybe you should try a bud or two sometime.

    Just say Perhaps.

  36. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    anyone who uses xkcd as a "citation needed" is dumber then someone that believes that the universe is closed or open.
    It's a comic strip, not a scientific journal.

  37. "pseudo-scientific nonsense" is excessive by billstewart · · Score: 1

    In the beginning, there was nothing, which then exploded.

    The article is a newspaper report about some physics papers. Half of it's just fine (slight-post-Big-Bang black holes still being around is a perfectly reasonable concept.)

    The other half apparently has at least some math to it and is trying to see what it implies, and while it's more likely to be wrong than right, unless you've gone and read the physics papers it's a bit excessive to call even that half of the article pseudo-scientific nonsense. I'm skeptical about it (after the previous universe's Big Crunch (speculative but not unpopular) there was nothing left (still ok), occupying no space because space itself no longer existed (still okayish), and that nothing had HOLES IN IT (or next to it or something), which sounds like a major stretch, but all of the scientific theories of the very early origins of the universe are pretty much of a stretch. It's something that's at least as falsifiable as any theory of the early Big Bang period.

    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    1. Re:"pseudo-scientific nonsense" is excessive by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      nothing had HOLES IN IT (or next to it or something), which sounds like a major stretch, but all of the scientific theories of the very early origins of the universe are pretty much of a stretch. It's something that's at least as falsifiable as any theory of the early Big Bang period.

      It's a common misconception that the BBT says the universe came from nothing. It doesn't, it claims it came from a singularity. A singularity is not nothing, particularly when it has the entire universe compressed into it. Where the singularity came from is currently not part of the BBT, also the early part of the BBT relates to a time ~10e-37 seconds AFTER the singularity started to expand and is well established science compared to this idea.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  38. I did by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What you consider the known universe is very small. Consider all the matter that was in the big bang, and for scale imagine it as a basketball. 100 miles away in space there is another "universe" that had it's own big bang. These are everywhere. Those of us who lived to the end of the "universe" moved to this one to survive the collapse of ours.

    Slowly these "universes" are being pulled inches closer to eachother, but there's still several hundred trillion years before the actual universe collapses into itself. Your universe is just one of many that are scattered everywhere.

    And yes, you humans are alone in your "universe". But you aren't alone in the universe.

  39. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by rainmouse · · Score: 2

    By what theories? The indigenous peoples have many theories of the universe. The Mayans, Incas, Egyptians, Babylonians, Sumerians, and their intelligent progenitors have many more.

    Hate to be fussy, but careful with the use of theory. It's misinterpretation in this context is what people who believe in the supernatural cling to when discussing such things as the theory of evolution.

    Theory: a well-established principle that has been developed to explain some aspect of the natural world. Theories have been typically tested repeatedly in many ways and have become widely accepted truth.

    Hypothesis: Testable and informed predictions with supporting facts. What is expected to happen during a specific study.

    The Mayans, Incas etc were more at the early conjecture stage, which is more of an opinion and without supporting evidence.

  40. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by lgw · · Score: 0

    And below conjecture, below wild-ass guess, and below totally-made-up-shit, there's a speciel tier reseved for anything to do with the Cosmological Constant (or do they call that dark energy now?) inflationary theories,and stock market predictions.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  41. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

    Yes the BB continues to this day, that's how we know there was a big bang! Also time is relative, there is no universal timer tick.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  42. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by sFurbo · · Score: 1

    And electrons! Have you ever seen one? They're completetly made up, just a theoretical kludge.

  43. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Just because this universe expands forever, doesn't mean its parent did. Could just be this particular universe is the end of the line of its lineage. So I think the question is still quite relevant.

  44. Rabelais by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Gargantua and Pantagruel Rabelais suggests replacing the walls of Paris with the personal part of the Parisian women, because they are strong enough to withstand anything. (He was a doctor as well as a Franciscan).

  45. I thought there was no "before" the big bang by SmilingBoy · · Score: 1

    I always thought that time was only created with the Big Bang - so how can there be a "before"?

    1. Re:I thought there was no "before" the big bang by ledow · · Score: 1

      Not a physicist but it wouldn't be too hard to guess:

      Time FOR YOU only exists in this universe. It doesn't mean that's the only "time" that's even existed. Or will ever exist. Yes, technically, you could have one "time" over there and one over here, or even one "before" another, etc. But you're tinkering in multi-dimensional physics of which almost all our knowledge and predictions are based on mathematics, not perception.

      Time is merely a dimension, like up/down, left/right. There are generally reckoned to be nearly a dozen dimensions (in order to make lots of maths that we know about, and which seems to work, be able to work properly), just that we can't perceive them. It's not inconceivable that some of those are time-like dimensions (and thus, time itself could have a history of being created, destroyed, etc. that's consistent with it only existing "once" to beings within it).

      When you talk about "time" as a concept, asking what came before is a ridiculous statement, like asking what would a fifth dimension look like to a four-dimensional being - you can't perceive it at all, and are unlikely to understand it ever.

      As far as you consider yourself a single being, in a single universe, with 4 dimensions, which has had a single "creation" event, there wasn't a before for you. But the bigger picture, believed to have many billions of universes, some or all of which would conceivably be in a never-ending loop of bang-crunch-bang (and thus, making "time being created with the Big Bang", again, nonsense), with 11-dimensions, branes and all sorts of strange fields and interactions and ways to exist and yet be seperate, etc. your question is inane and unanswerable.

    2. Re:I thought there was no "before" the big bang by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not that there is or is not a "before", it's that we don't know, since our current theories break down at that point because of the singularity. Therefore the predictive capability of the theories betond that point is zero.

      There are some variations of string theories that avoid the singularity and they can do predictions, but since string theory suffers from the "not even wrong" syndrome, we're back to square one.

    3. Re:I thought there was no "before" the big bang by calderra · · Score: 1

      Or, when we say time didn't exist before the Big Bang, what we literally meant was that we thought no data could possibly have survived from any previous universe. Given that we couldn't ever know a previous universe, we then have to assume for all practical purposes that time started at the moment of the Big Bang. Now that we think something can survive the Big Bang, it is once again meaningful to imagine that time also existed before the Big Bang.

    4. Re:I thought there was no "before" the big bang by geekoid · · Score: 1

      Complicated.

      But the big Bang was not the start of everything. It's was an event.

      While counter intuitive, if time was removed, there would still be a 'before' and 'after'. hey may not happen in sequence.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  46. Black holes? by miffo.swe · · Score: 1

    I think its a pretty bold theory considering black holes arent even proven to exist yet. I think many of these questions wont be answered until someone can come up with a better understanding of gravity.

    --
    HTTP/1.1 400
    1. Re:Black holes? by calderra · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole Black holes are about as theoretical as evolution.

    2. Re:Black holes? by miffo.swe · · Score: 1

      Read under the Alternatives section, black holes are still in dispute in the scientific community.

      --
      HTTP/1.1 400
  47. it is a error -www.yipsun.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is a error. .
      to be or not to be .. It makes so manypeople so sad

  48. Big Crunch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you mean the Gnab Gib?

  49. Yo, Dawg by Megane · · Score: 1

    I heard you like singularities, so I put some black holes in your black holes so you can big bang while you big bang.

    --
    #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
  50. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by rufty_tufty · · Score: 1

    "Talking about what was "before" the big bang, is like talking about what is north of the north pole."
    Maybe, maybe not. If we find evidence for these black holes then it shows there was a before the big bang and we have to change our view of the universe accordingly. Until we look for the evidence we don't know, that's kind of the point of science.

    --
    "The weirdest thing about a mind, is that every answer that you find, is the basis of a brand new cliche" -
  51. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by JockTroll · · Score: 1

    Is that cat alive, dead, or a combination or both?

    --
    Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
  52. Any physists here? I think I have some questions.. by RichiH · · Score: 1

    1) Could this explain how the symmetric particle soup go asymmetric, allowing "proper" particles, dust clouds, galaxies etc to form?

    2) If I had a lot of very large black holes, could they account for the missing anti-matter? If we assume a _large_ pre-existing universe, this would/might shift the problem from "where is it" to "it's really far away" due to distribution and "local" fluctuation.

    3) Assuming anti-matter has normal gravity, could we detect black holes made from anti-matter other than seeing them dwindle, over time?

  53. Theory del Gato by nwmann · · Score: 0

    Dear everyone. between the big crunch and the big bang there is what i believe to be nothing, mathematical 0, what happens past this point is simple mathematics, the creation of numbers out of nothing. 0 can be expressed as 1 + (-1) there goes your matter and negative matter (i call it negative matter because in the time between the crunch n bang i believe there to be no need for energy even as the creation of our universe is simply conceptual math. 0 could be expressed as (2+2) + (-4). you can play around with a bit, lets say within universe a we have a positive 2 and a negative 2, well negative 2 can be simply expressed as 0-2 which means we have nothing (0) from which we can seperate out even more universes. perhaps there is not a simple linear bang and crunch but a multidimensional fireworks show of crunches and bangs sometimes overlapping, sometimes completely seperate from each other.

  54. string theory by circletimessquare · · Score: 1, Troll

    not science

    nothing about it is testable

    therefore, string theory is indeed the ramblings of a stoner. a very intelligent, mathematical stoner, but completely useless to the realm of actual science nonetheless

    i don't understand much of the math in string theory, but i do know it is not testable. therefore, string theory is nothing but mental masturbation of the sort mildly stoned college students engage in. of no more value to us who are interested in actual scientific efforts

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:string theory by geekoid · · Score: 1

      "nothing about it is testable" - False. A common misconception it's hard to test, but some tests have been put forth.

      Even if it is 'just math' doesn't mean it has no value.

      Example:
      Special relativity - You might have heard of it.

      Wasn't testable, in fact many qualified people at the time thought it would never be testable. Yet here we are.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    2. Re:string theory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations. You've managed to completely miss the point of things like string theory and other wacky scientific ponderings. If all scientists were like you we'd not have even figured out the periodic table yet.

      Bat shit crazy thinking from very smart people is how many breakthroughs begin. The trick is to know when to throw the line of thinking out and when you might be on to something (even if it's not the original idea). Try it sometime, you might have a some fun.

    3. Re:string theory by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

      "Bat shit crazy thinking from very smart people is how many breakthroughs begin"

      i agree 100%. and i am happy we both agree that string theory is bat shit crazy thinking and not science

      you should also make note of the fact that for ever bat shit crazy theory that went on to become hard science, 100 more went nowhere. so i don't know why you are angry at me, for not giving respect, where none is yet due

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    4. Re:string theory by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

      "it's hard to test, but some tests have been put forth"

      uh... really?

      name one

      and i mean a test for string theory itself, not tangential subject matter

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    5. Re:string theory by Artifakt · · Score: 1

      String Theory is (somewhat) testable.
      People have gotten the idea that String Theory isn't testable because one of the predictions is supersymmetry. Supersymmetry isn't directly testable at the energies our particle accelerators can reach - indeed they fall many magnitudes of power short of producing collisions that would emit supersymmentric versions of familiar particles (no Snutrinos or Selectrons will come out of CERN or anything else we could build today, even if we made it our number one priority for the whole world for decades to build the most powerful accelerator possible).
              But, the reaction rates for various fundamental particle interchanges are theoretically affected by supersymmetry, and those can be measured - this is ongoing, but seems to confirm supersymmetry does exist - at least the probabilities are now strongly suggestive that it does, and when the experiments are finished we should be at better than six sigmas confidence one way or another.
              There's also astronomical testing - what we can't do here on earth may have been done many times in the immediate post big bang era and left behind strings we can observe. Part of testing string theory has had to wait on people deciding what a very large mass string in intergalactic space might do to light passing nearby and how it could be told from other gravitational lensing effects. Similarly, there's been a lot of discussion about what distortions to the form of a normal spiral galaxy might indicate a string interaction and not some other cause (a galactic mass black hole without accompanying normal matter, collision with a normal galaxy that was moving so rapidly it is no longer in the area where we would normally expect a partner in a collision to be detected, or just the galaxy being oddly formed or seen at an angle that makes it difficult to tell anything for sure.). These are issues, to be sure, but they aren't fundamentally untestable, just complex and requiring time to sort out.
              For something better than a Wikipedia entry on the subject, people can start by reading this Nova Interview with Edward Witten:
      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/view-witten.html

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    6. Re:string theory by bjorniac · · Score: 1

      String theory != cosmology. There's string cosmology, sure, examining the cosmological implications of string theory, but standard GR based cosmology has been tested - see WMAP, COBE, predictions of the cosmic microwave background.

      In fact, XCKD based their entire "It works bitches" http://xkcd.com/54/ on the predictions of standard cosmology.

    7. Re:string theory by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

      thank you. for taking the time to explain politely

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  55. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by TemperedAlchemist · · Score: 2

    Redshifting, the primary support behind the expanding universe theory, has only been known/studied for the past hundred years or so. At best, that gives us some hundred years of data. On a cosmological level, this is near insignificant. Based on the calculations of Einstein's field theory, we know that the acceleration outward has a positive second derivative, meaning that the acceleration is increasing (and not decreasing as previously thought). Why is not known (and so the expanding universe is an observation, rather than a theory).

    The most curious part of this is that the expanding universe theory heavily relies on the Friedmann–Lemaître–Robertson–Walker metric (mentioned above). And that all mention of this in academia yields that this positive second derivative merely suggests that the Universe is expanding. However, if we look in all basic knowledge about what the Universe is doing, it says nearly unequivocally or is largely implied with certainty that the Universe is expanding and everything is going to suffer from entropy.

    NASA (http://map.gsfc.nasa.gov/universe/uni_expansion.html) even doesn't claim this, and mentions the possibility of the Universe collapsing in on itself. To say that "current theory" supports the expanding universe theory is wrong-- it's largely tied up in controversy.

  56. Where ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where did the matter that exploded come from?

    1. Re:Where ? by nwmann · · Score: 0

      it came from the knowledge that it had a counterpart which would negate itself in some other part of it's reality.

  57. i hate myself by strack · · Score: 2

    black holes go in, black holes go out, never a miscommunication.

  58. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But it's funny! Lighten up a little. It's no worse than claiming dinosaurs were digging for food and then fell into the hole and couldn't get out again.

  59. Multi-Verse Collisions by Kamiza+Ikioi · · Score: 2

    Actually, one current theory is that the universe does expand forever, but collision points between universes causes "big bangs" which sparks energy/matter into existence. The best explanation is two drum heads colliding at a single point, which would result in a "drum beat" of a bang, with the vibrations and ripples being the equivalent energy/matter.

    So, a pre-big bang black hole could be from a prior collision. It would be a "vibration" that never completely lost gravitational cohesiveness, which is the current theory of how the universe will end... when dark energy (blowing us apart) overcomes the force of dark matter (pulling us together).

    Understanding these black holes would only matter to us billions of years in the future should we attempt to survive our universe dissolving into dust. Or... if you wanna find the most ancient aliens with god-like technology, maybe they're hibernating in one of these things.

    Then again, IANAS, I just watch a lot of Discovery and misc sci programming.

    --
    I8-D
    1. Re:Multi-Verse Collisions by colnago · · Score: 1

      This is a tough one. Theory is a strong word. It's not even a hypothesis as it simply can't be tested. No evidence exists. Multiverse seems to be more a postulation of a possibility, even if the idea sounds scientific enough to be a reality. I believe in realm of the possible, possibilities need to be ordered in terms of likeliness based on the evidence we have. So your disclaimer IANAS is appropriate. I appreciate your candor!

  60. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by calderra · · Score: 1

    Some current research papers even argue the second derivative- the data in inconclusive enough that there may be in the range of 30% probability that the expansion is slowing, depending on how you run the numbers. (The universe is still expanding faster and faster, but instead of expanding runaway exponentially faster it may be falling back to linear, which could then slow down).

  61. Re:Any physists here? I think I have some question by calderra · · Score: 1

    Amateur here, but methinks.... 1) You mean how the universe is made out of matter instead of antimatter? The truth is we don't know, and we're only just starting to come up with some good guesses. 2) Pose that a different way- why haven't antimatter black holes changed everything into antimatter? (Morbo: Black holes do not work that way!) 3) Anti-matter has exactly the same properties of matter (we think, so far). If the universe were made out of antimatter instead of matter, we would have just named the terms the other way around.

  62. Unfortunately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The politically correct idea :
    "indigenous" religions (basically any religion except Christianity) all have something to teach us

    The reality :
    indigenous religions are dangerous, disgusting lunacies, every nook and cranny filled with moral abominations. From raiding villages, taking prisoners, torturing them for months to amuse the upper class and eventually cutting the heart out of their living (the centerpiece of the "beautiful spirituality" that is the Mayan religion, also practiced by Incas and many Inca-like city states in South America), conscious bodies to raping baby boys ("sufi islam"). What we'd consider child-rape is a near constant for our planet's religions. Dictatorial police states, likewise. Slavery, likewise. Religious genocide, likewise. The list goes on.

    Really we wouldn't be that bad of if we simply did what near-every religion and culture does : violently eliminate any trace of anything even slightly different from ourselves, wherever we find it, beginning with the people.

    1. Re:Unfortunately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're paying too much attention to Mexico and South America. The Iroquois had a pretty good thing going up in the Northeast, given their circumstances.

      Either way, even the horrifying cultures have something to teach us, even if it's only a warning sign.

  63. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Current theory says that the universe can divide by zero locally in such a way that the singularity can propagate through a singularity in which all the matter in the entire universe divides by zero. Current theory sounds like a mathematically-impossible method of trying to explain a phenomenon that we don't yet understand the real cause of.

  64. Yeah, older than the universe by bigsexyjoe · · Score: 1

    That's the point. This is the oldest information of all.

  65. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by elrous0 · · Score: 1

    Yeah, but didn't the Big Bang supposedly CREATE space and time in our universe? So how could anything be said to exist BEFORE the Big Bang?

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  66. Re:Any physists here? I think I have some question by RichiH · · Score: 1

    > 1) You mean how the universe is made out of matter instead of antimatter? The truth is we don't know, and we're only just starting to come up with some good guesses

    And I was asking about the viability of my guess.

    > 2) Pose that a different way- why haven't antimatter black holes changed everything into antimatter? (Morbo: Black holes do not work that way!)

    Also, that is not what I asked ;)

    > 3) Anti-matter has exactly the same properties of matter (we think, so far). If the universe were made out of antimatter instead of matter, we would have just named the terms the other way around.

    We don't know if anti-matter has gravity or anti-gravity. We will be able to test this soonish as 32(?) anti-hydrogen atoms existed for several seconds, just a few days ago.

  67. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by lgw · · Score: 1

    You're supposed to say "magnets, how do they work?" or something like that. Do try to keep up with popular culture, or at least try for a sense of humor.

    The "Cosmological Constant" has been an admitted kludge for a century. But somehow recently it seems to have gone from an explicit lable for "here's the place where our theory breaks" to "our theory's great, and here another great theory too", which isn't healthy.

    The uniformity of tempurature of the CMBR, for example, was a bit of a surprise - being too uniform for how large the universe was at recombination - and not really predicted by anyone's theories (or hypotheses) on universe expansion. As a result this silly band-aid of "the universe must have expanded .. faster than light, yeah, that's the ticket" was hastily improvised. And now we have "inflatrons" (presumably emitted by Carter?) and other such attempts to describe in detail somehting that is guesswork in the first place.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  68. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by colnago · · Score: 1

    Yeah, this is a tough one, too. Since no evidence exists for alternative universes, either preceding or parallel, these things cannot be tested. Just because a parent universe could exist doesn't mean it did exist. The only evidence available is that the universe we live in is the only universe that does or has ever existed. So when ordering possibilities, the parent universe and a lineage of universes falls lower in likelihood than the current universe is the only one, ever.

  69. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    And of course current theory is now fixed in stone for ever like the Ten Commandments. Not last year's or last decade's or last century's current theory, just the current current theory as of today.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  70. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1

    Yeah, this is a tough one, too. Since no evidence exists for alternative universes, either preceding or parallel, these things cannot be tested. Just because a parent universe could exist doesn't mean it did exist. The only evidence available is that the universe we live in is the only universe that does or has ever existed.

    Well, that's something this experiment would be designed to answer, actually. If a black hole can - through exceedingly careful experimentation - be proven to predate the universe, that would be evidence there. Besides, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence. It simply means that we don't know, because, absent the possibilities raised in the article, the notion of parallel universes doesn't appear to be testable.

    So when ordering possibilities, the parent universe and a lineage of universes falls lower in likelihood than the current universe is the only one, ever.

    By the same reasoning you provided above, you also have no evidence by which to handicap that race. We simply don't know. If nothing else, you're left with the very sticky question of 'where the hell did the universe come from'?

  71. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by Talderas · · Score: 1

    I don't know, but allow me to help the scientists test this. All I need is to be hooked up to some deadly neurotoxin.

    --
    "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
  72. Whoooossshh by sgtrock · · Score: 1

    "What's that sound?" :D

  73. Re:Any physists here? I think I have some question by geekoid · · Score: 1
    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
  74. Re:Any physists here? I think I have some question by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

    We don't know if anti-matter has gravity or anti-gravity. We will be able to test this soonish as 32(?) anti-hydrogen atoms existed for several seconds, just a few days ago.

    I think the ability to measure the gravity of individual hydrogen (or anti-hydrogen) atoms is a little longer off then anything I wold consider soonish.

    --
    We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
  75. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    You're supposed to say "magnets, how do they work?" or something like that.

    The magnets attract, the magnets repel - you can't explain that.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  76. Re:Any physists here? I think I have some question by RichiH · · Score: 1

    Apparently there is a way. Don't ask me which, though.

  77. Re:Any physists here? I think I have some question by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

    What makes you think that?

    --
    We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
  78. Re:Any physists here? I think I have some question by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

    A version of the atomic fountain technique should work for samples of a few thousand anti-hydrogen atoms. Cool them in the center of your chamber, release them, and watch for the burst of gamma rays as they hit the bottom of the chamber (or the top if matter and antimatter repel).

    If you can't cool them that much send a low-energy beam of them down a long horizontal tube and measure the droop.

    --
    Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
  79. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By what theories? The indigenous peoples have many theories of the universe. The Mayans, Incas, Egyptians, Babylonians, Sumerians, and their intelligent progenitors have many more. The history of the future is defined by the theories that are ignored.

    ? -RAH

    Current theory relies on very limited information.

    http://xkcd.com/605/

    Limited how?

    By what theories? The indigenous peoples have many theories of the universe. The Mayans, Incas, Egyptians, Babylonians, Sumerians, and their intelligent progenitors have many more. The history of the future is defined by the theories that are ignored.

    How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your
    delusions? -RAH

    I'm only familiar with the theories of the indigenous peoples. Are there very many peoples who aren't indigenous to the universe that have theories about the universe? Also how does one get in contact with people from outside the universe?

  80. So if black holes survived the Big Bang by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    are they what provided the material for this particular universe?

  81. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hehe, it was a Star Trek: Voyager joke.

  82. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by sFurbo · · Score: 1

    No, magnets can be explained one step further by saying "photons" (possibly even virtual photons). Electrons started out as a kludge for "it seems that the charge/mass ratio of the negative emissions is identical, regardless of what emits them", just as evasive as inflation is today. Inflation might end up being superseded by a theory better able to explain the observations, or it might over time be more and more solid, but until we can make that distinction, the best we can do is to keep talking about it as inflation, and keep in mind that it is just a model with some evidence, like everything else in physics.

  83. Previous Universe ? by Mr+Europe · · Score: 1

    The article is assuming that an universe existed before Big Bang. If that was the case it would be feasible to guess that the bang happened BEFORE every little mass (or massless) particle dropped into the black hole to explode. There is a reason to cause the big bang to happen (maybe a critical mass ?) and if I were to explode as the big bang I couldn't wait for every little particle, would You ?

    I have understood that big bang theories assume that before that there was no space or time. So no universe before that. We'll never know.

  84. Beginning of time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, wait. Are they saying that black holes existed before the beginning of time??? lolwut?

  85. Bad for cryptography ! by DrYak · · Score: 1

    That will really put a nail on the coffin of people saying that brute-forcing the most advanced forms of cryptography will require more processing time than the life expectancy of the universe.

    Now, all the NSA needs to do is to put their brute-force cluster inside a black hole and wait for it to survive for the next 10^n big-bang cycles !!!

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  86. Re:Any physists here? I think I have some question by _0xd0ad · · Score: 1

    We don't know if anti-matter has gravity or anti-gravity. We will be able to test this soonish as 32(?) anti-hydrogen atoms existed for several seconds, just a few days ago.

    If anti-gravity exists, it obviously has to be an attractive force between anti-matter particles. Whether anti-matter attracts normal matter or repels it may remain to be seen, but it's still safe to say that a universe made out of anti-matter would still behave pretty much the same as our universe, with the same observable laws of physics.

  87. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by lgw · · Score: 1

    From KnowYourMeme

    Fucking Magnets, How Do They Work? is a lyrical reference to the 2009 single Miracles by the Insane Clown Posse, an American hip hop duo from Detroit, Michigan. The song describes the wonders of the universe and an appreciation for nature's beauty, while angrily eschewing science. Among the most quotable lines can be heard at 1:52, "fucking magnets, how do they work," which instantly became a popular catchphrase on the web.

    Most other kludges resolve themselves quickly - even the more elusive like neutrinos and dark matter didn't take that long to gain experimental evidence. But universal expansion has been kludged forever - we're clearly missing somehting very fundamental.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  88. Re:Current theory says the universe expands foreve by sFurbo · · Score: 1

    Oh, I had forgotten that particular piece of stupid by ICP.

    Neutrinos were suggested in 1930 and confirmed experimentally in 1956. I wouldn't call 26 years quickly. Inflation was suggested in 1980, so it's not that far behind neutrinos. But, of course, that isn't the important thing. Come up with a theory that better explains the data, and inflation will fall. Until that day, inflation is the best we have. The cosmological constant doesn't pose as anything but a kludge, but until we get better data or better theories, what are we to do?

  89. Black Holes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look at the UPC code. That should give you a hint.

  90. black holes go in, black holes go out, never a mis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here is some more on Black wholes.

    http://6planets.blogspot.com/2011/04/black-hole-white-hole.html