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Google/Facebook: Do-Not-Track Threatens CA Economy

theodp writes "Google and Facebook are warning legislators of dire consequences if California passes a 'do-not-track' bill. The proposed law would require companies doing online business in the Golden State to offer an 'opt-out' privacy mechanism for consumers. Senate Bill 761 'would create an unnecessary, unenforceable and unconstitutional regulatory burden on Internet commerce,' reads the sky-is-falling protest letter bearing the stamp-of-disapproval from Google, Facebook, Yahoo, Amex, Acxiom, Experian, Allstate, Time-Warner, MPAA, ESA and others. 'The measure would negatively affect consumers who have come to expect rich content and free services through the Internet, and would make them more vulnerable to security threats.'"

23 of 363 comments (clear)

  1. MPAA and Google by x*yy*x · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Would you really want MPAA to get limitless power to track your every movement? What next, install tracking equipment and video cameras in your home so can MPAA can make sure you aren't making backups own your movies? After all, that would be really good for MPAA and barring such would "unnecessarily burden MPAA and movie studios business".

    It's actually an interesting thing among slashthink. This is one thing Microsoft is doing right. You don't see Microsoft among the privacy invasive companies like MPAA, Time-Warner, Google, Facebook, ESA etc.. That's because they don't want to track your every movement. Microsoft sells you software. You buy it, they're happy, and you don't lose your privacy. Still most here think MS is evil and Google is some kind of white knight. Well, a few quotes.. Eric Schmidt: "We try very hard to look like we're out of control. But in fact the company is very measured. And that's part of our secret.". And Schmidt: "If I look at enough of your messaging and your location, and use artificial intelligence, we can predict where you are going to go ... show us 14 photos of yourself and we can identify who you are.", and again, "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place."

    1. Re:MPAA and Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place."

      Then, perhaps they should stop using NDA's for every bloody thing they do. Oh, that's right. They aren't one of us "little people" (formerly known as peasants).

      Anyway, even slashthink gave up on the idea that Google is some kind of white knight a long time ago. And only the gullible were convinced by Google's "Do No Evil" motto. Actually, a good rule of thumb is, take whatever positive messages a corporation is giving out (or politician, for that matter) and realize that they are going to do the opposite.

      Google: "Do No Evil" - they do evil all the time and are turning into a corporate version of the STASI

      Bush: "Ownership society" - only the rich really own anything now, the rest of us at best have the illusion of ownership

      Obama: "Change" - we are getting the same shit we got under Bush
      CAPTCHA: "scraping" - how appropriate

    2. Re:MPAA and Google by starfishsystems · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft sells you software. You buy it, they're happy, and you don't lose your privacy.

      Well, not really. First of all, you buy it and you do lose your privacy. Microsoft has been caught playing all kinds of tricks over the network. And it was among the first to try it. Others followed its example. A more accurate characterization is that if it can get away with it, it will.

      But that's only one, rather generic, thing to worry about. What makes Microsoft special is its efforts to monetize DRM. This is something it has been building towards for over a decade now. It's naïve to think that software buyers are Microsoft's only customer. In fact you do see Microsoft hanging out with the likes of MPAA and Time-Warner. You're just not invited to the table.

      --
      Parity: What to do when the weekend comes.
    3. Re:MPAA and Google by Doctor_Jest · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're half right. Microsoft is notorious for the very thing you claim they don't do. They are in bed with the MPAA/RIAA, and a copy of Windows phones home more times than a kid at his first day of summer camp. Google isn't a white knight because they're a corporation in it for the profit. All corporations are evil. They do not care about us, nor do they care who they exploit to get more money.

        The quote "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place" reminds me of the position people take regarding privacy and over-reaching government snooping that violates the 4th Amendment. "If you're not doing anything illegal, you should have nothing to hide." And like that statement... It's not about what you do, it's about the power I have over my own life. I shouldn't be at the mercy of tracking software and invasive snooping simply because I'm online. It'd be like every time you went to Wal Mart someone who worked for them or one of the products in the store would follow you around, recording everything you did. What the "do not track" option does is as simple as saying "let me shop in peace." You will know what I buy when I check out or when I make a transaction. Seeing what I pick up and put back on the shelf is really of no concern. Stop selling it to marketeers and attempting to put me in a box that says "likes pie and Febreeze. Let's market Febreeze tasting pie to him!"

      --
      It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man.
  2. MPAA with them? by conark · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's not a good name to have associated with the rest. So much for Google not being evil. Maybe they should change their slogan to "Don't be unprofitable."

    1. Re:MPAA with them? by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The end user is not Google's customer.

      We are the product they sell to their customers, who are the advertisers.

      The WWW as it is presently composed consists of a lot of end users, a scattering of small operators, and a handful of very wealthy owners of the Central Servers. It's so 'classic 19th century capitalist' that it screams at us, but so few people seem to understand that the entities that own the big servers are not our friends.

    2. Re:MPAA with them? by ThunderBird89 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This:
      Shareholder: Do !
      Board: Sir, that would be evil, we can't do that for the sake of our customers!
      Shareholder: Do it, or I withdraw my capital, and this company dies!/Do it, and I'll double your salaries personally!
      Board: All in favor!

      --
      Hyperbole: I use it liberally!
  3. Lesson one: there is no free lunch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Lesson two: If it looks like there is a free lunch, think again. You're losing something worth more than cash up front.

  4. Translation by ljw1004 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Translation: "Our business model is founded on doing stuff to consumers that they don't want. Please let us continue doing it."

    1. Re:Translation by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have said it elsewhere, but...the Internet has now become an adversarial game. "Consumers" do things that corporations like Google do not want either -- "consumers" make use of websites and run up bandwidth, power, and personnel fees, and try to do so without paying anything for it. The corporations thus try to force consumers to provide them with revenue, and have turned to things like tracking your use of the Internet and selling that data to marketers.

      The solution will not be found in the law; it will be found be returning to a peer-to-peer Internet and leaving this "consumers getting services from corporations" model behind us. Sadly, a peer-to-peer Internet would require users who took the time to actually learn about their computers, which I doubt we will actually see any time soon.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
    2. Re:Translation by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem with tracking and targeted advertising, as far as I am concerned, is that it makes our 4th amendment rights just a little less meaningful. The government has already started turning to some of these companies to request information that they would otherwise require a subpoena or warrant to obtain, and they are now able to get that information without any court order. On its own that might not seem to be such a terrible thing; the problem is that it makes it easier for the government to pass more laws and imprison more people, which is the sort of thing the constitution is supposed to protect us from.

      Another, more philosophical issue is that the Internet was originally envisioned as a peer to peer system, with people around the world communicating with each other and working together. The fact that we are now speaking in terms of "consumers" who seek "services," and that those "services" must be paid for by tracking "consumers" is an indication of the failure of that ancient ideal. Instead of empowering people, the Internet has just reinforced the consumer oriented mindset; rather than solving problems on their own or working with others to find a solution, people just wait for a service that provides the solution to them and never bother to use their own minds.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
  5. Re:Consumers by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Welcome to the 21st century; living under that rock must have really been tough. These days, the Internet is not about netizens politely sharing information and having vigorous discussions, it is an adversarial game designed to extract the maximum amount of money from you.

    --
    Palm trees and 8
  6. Silly by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    'Opt-out' is kind of pointless anyway because it will require a cookie to say you've opted out, which can be used to track you. The only law which would make sense is requiring people to opt-in to being tracked.

  7. Re:On the one hand, they're right by NixieBunny · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Amen. The notion that everyone is chasing each other's clicks to the bank is mystifying to me. Who's producing actual stuff?

    The worst sites for me are the sites that have millions of electronic component part numbers listed on thousands of pages, but that don't sell any of these parts. WTF???!!!??

    Of course, I'm looking for actual parts because I produce actual stuff to sell.

    --
    The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
  8. Wait what? by future+assassin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    'The measure would negatively affect consumers who have come to expect rich content and free services through the Internet

    Lets forget about free services, why do you need to store my info if I pay for your rich content service. I'm more then happy to enter my CC details every time I need to renew your service.

    would make them more vulnerable to security threats.

    Sony? If my personal info is not stored anywhere how am I at risk to security threats?

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    1. Re:Wait what? by betterunixthanunix · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Lets forget about free services, why do you need to store my info if I pay for your rich content service.

      Probably because your information is worth more than what you are willing to pay for the service.

      --
      Palm trees and 8
  9. it is opt out by fermion · · Score: 4, Insightful
    This means that a person cannot be tracked without their knowledge. These types of bills always destroy disreputable or legacy firns, but legitimate firms always finds a way to survive. In the case of Google and Facebook, they will merely have to gind an incentive to encourage people to not opt out. Both firms already do this. This why Google is succesful. While many end users have no problem turning off all the cookies for Yahoo and 2o7, because they provide no services that require cookies, I suspect the majority of people who use google and facebook have active cookies for these sites.

    I have said many bad things about Google, and now I add to that Google is officially a bloated and lazy firm, not capable of meaningful innovation. If it were it would not be pulling the 'lost jobs' argument. Such an argument is only made of irrelevant companies such as US auto makers and book publishers.

    Google, and to a lesser extent, facbook has made huge sums of money through consumer ignorance. What this is going to require that they share a bit more of those proceeds with the end user. Yes it will effect profits, and conceivably it will effect proficts enough that they will get out of the business, or leave california. Perhaps they can move to a desperate state like mississippi, and perhaps enough employee will follow. The reality is that California knows it has something that exists in few other places, and can enforce a code of conduct on the companies there. Othwise everyone would move 400 miles east to Nevada.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
  10. heh by uberjack · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So much for "Don't be evil"?

  11. Re:Yeah well by nolife · · Score: 3, Insightful

    People use the "cool" stuff because it is there and does not cost money. If there was a monetary charge for the same thing and no one used it, is that the fault of the people or the business offering. Do the people really lose in that situation? The business that does offer what someone wants and people are willing pay for it will be the winner for both groups.

    --
    Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
  12. Re:Yeah well by icebraining · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem isn't that stuff isn't free, it's that the costs are purposely hidden.

  13. Re:Consumers by Luckyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The change is from "Netizen" to "Product". You're not the consumer - companies your info is sold to are. You are the product being consumed.

  14. Re:Yeah well by zippyspringboard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Everyone wants cool stuff. But nothing is free. It is just basic economics."

    Fine then charge me for it. I don't want to give up my privacy.

  15. Looking at the endorsers, all the bad guys are on. by Animats · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The usual slimeballs are behind this:

    • 24/7 Real Media
    • ValueClick
    • AOL
    • Amway
    • MPAA
    • Direct Marketing Association
    • Network Advertising Initiative

    If all those organizations went bust, the world would be a better place. Applying some pain to all of them is a good first step.