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In Indonesia, a Winner For Now In the Browser Wars
angry tapir writes "Mozilla is building an army of volunteers in Indonesia to help customize Firefox and recommend add-ons. Mozilla wants that input so it can retain the high market share that Firefox already has in the country. Web statistics company StatCounter puts the share at 75 to 80 percent, the browser's highest in Asia. The worldwide share of Firefox, which competes with Internet Explorer and Google Chrome, is just over 30 percent."
I live in Indonesia and has been using their browsers for several years now. I first used their Netscape 7 several years ago, because at that time Internet Explorer 6 (running under Windows 98 SE) was a real resource hog, eating up SYSTEM and USER resources. I also liked its pop-up blocker. Now I am happily using Firefox 4.0, primarily because it has AdBlock Plus (note that bandwidth is expensive in Indonesia), it still supports Windows XP SP3, and it is, in my opinion, faster than Internet Explorer 8 (with my computer full of ActiveX components installed by legitimate programs).
It's a constant battle for supremacy. Firefox hasn't won anything. It's simply the leader at the moment.
Microsoft realise this. Mozilla's advocates would be well advised to keep this in mind and not get complacent.
Fud doesn't play, he's hunting wabbits!
Actually you would probably find a higher incidence of Windows in Indonesia compared to America/Europe. People in developing countries use products that are good, not on the basis of open-source vs. monopoly arguments.
Actually you would probably find a higher incidence of Windows in Indonesia compared to America/Europe. People in developing countries use products that are good, not on the basis of open-source vs. monopoly arguments.
Then why would they use Windows?
"There's someone in my head but it's not me." - Pink Floyd, Dark Side of the Moon
The Indonesian translation of various software is just too funny to use and sometimes confuses even experienced user in the field who are used to English.
Not really. The last virus infections I found have been on business servers in Indonesia and the Blackberry phones they use, when I was in Indonesia last year. I don't call this "tech savvy", when you don't have an idea how to keep your servers up-to-date with latest security patches and everything runs on deprecated Windows XP installations with old service packs. Running Firefox there does not give them bonus points.
From TFA "Mozilla does not fully understand why Firefox has caught on in Indonesia, Kanai said."
I'll explain why: most of internet access in here is done through public spaces such as school/university 'libraries' and internet cafes. Internet cafes hold the biggest share and they usually use firefox because it's easier to lock down than IE (and those environments are set up by techies) and firefox provides indonesian translation. Common people use it because at most times, they have no choice. Many are also not profficient in english, so public terminals owners are more inclined to install a browser with localized language. Socially, people refer firefox to their friends mainly because of adblock. Bandwidth is still somewhat a luxury in here, so people try to filter out unneeded things to speed up site loads.
And btw,
considering it's an emerging market where Microsoft didn't get a chance to establish its monopoly because of already established competitors..
Our established Microsoft competitors is pirated Ms products, and it sure is a very established 'business'. Only cheap-ass businesses would force the usage of linux in their environment (the local police do scheduled raids to businesses to check conformity with microsoft licenses).
I live in Indonesia, I wouldn't call the general population here tech savvy either, most computers I see around run pirated and unpatched windows XP including large companies and government. Virus infections are so common that many users not even bother anymore to clean up their machines because they would probably get infected again in a week. The fact they can't get patches from Microsoft is probably the main reason why Firefox is so widespread.
Not surprising this emphasis is being put on Indonesia since, if I remember right, it is the world's seventh most populous country.
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
What's the Internet penetration rate in Indonesia?
comparing internet users population might yield more sense that rough population though...
Under the authority of myself, I declare the browser war to be over and the victor is No one!
The Great Netscape vs. IE of the Late 90's was was a completely different dynamic then it is today.
It was the case the both browsers were trying to push their version of the standards. CSS vs. Layers JavaScript vs. VBScript. Java Applets vs. Flash vs. ActiveX. To the victor the rights to use their technology to the looser having to pay license fees and 2 to 3 months of extra development which could have been put towards improving the product. For the most part IE won the first browser war but not without concessions. JavaScript and Flash and a bunch of open standards survived. ActiveX technology was a failure, as it predictably was a huge security problem, and shortly relegated to corporate intranets as just an easier way to deploy you VB applications.
As Microsoft was the declared winner by the release of IE 5. They pushed out IE 6 to keep IE and windows in sync. Then it lingered without much competition to too long. Becoming a sap for Mal-Ware partially due to the fact that there were some poor design decisions and partially just because it has been out for so long that crackers have found many many holes to use, and its wide usage makes it an easy target.
So after a bunch of failed attempts on the Netscape/Mozilla side. (Netscape 6, Mozilla...) a group decided to make a lightweight browser, except for the heavy all purpose one, Firefox. Being small light and fast, made it easy to put on those new fangled USB drives and installed in no time on a lot of computers. Combined the timing matched when Windows XP with IE 6 are being heavily crippled with malware, Firefox was a savior. Thus its rebirth (of the "Netscape" Browser)
As Firefox grew it reached a point where Web Developers needed to make sure their code was compatible and they found out that Firefox suppored the standards much better then IE did. So Firefox shortly became much more of a joy to code for, and IE became their bane. But that allowed more Standard Complacent pages to come up, with opened the door for other browsers, Like Safari where Apple took and modified Konquers code. then Google Chrome, and Opera even made their product as a free (as in cost) download. Now Firefox, Safari, Opera and Chrome really stopped competing with IE 6 (as it was so out of date that it wasn't worth it) and competing amongst them selfs to see who is faster then the other and who supports the standards the best.
IE 7 came out but it was tied to the stench of Vista, IE 8 as well, Although still the largest in market share it has been loosing a lot of ground to the others. Now Microsoft released IE 9 which supports open standards and runs rather quickly.
So the war has been over we are now in an area of increasing competition and improvements. Browsers are no longer fighting for the rights to push their standards they are all going trying to push the best use of the open standards and better performance, and this is a good thing
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
You make some good points.. i agree that pirated windows is probably one reason for not using IE.. As for Windows XP.. with the SP's its still the best windows distro from a programming point of view atleast.. But, i still find it surprising that so many people even know firefox. I'm from India and I can say for sure.. the general population would have almost never even heard of firefox.. they just get their Windows (pirated or otherwise) bundled with IE and thats it.. maybe 10-20% of users know/use firefox/safari/chrome (just an estimate.. could be inaccurate)..
The last person to mod me down is a rotten egg..... there.. that should do it..
Chrome has already displaced Firefox as the largest non-IE brwoser in Argentina, Uruguay, Brazil, and Chile; and other regions are following the same path.
That's what I love about fair competition: now Firefox is bound to implement multithreads if it wants to catch up.
In soviet russia the government regulates the companies.
I'm another anonymous coward from Indonesia, where the only connection is mobile connection for the most part of the country. Blackberry rules. As for not-so-smart phone, Opera Mini often comes bundled with the data plan and sometimes it won't do any good for websites other than Facebook or Twitter. Firefox--the desktop browser--won nothing therein.
IE6 usage is still too high in those countries, In the rest of the world Firefox helped get rid of IE6 which is now reduced to corporate users only. In fact IE6 usage is actually increasing in China and is over 35%. Firefox needs to go all out and advertise in these IE strong holds.
IE has one and only ultimate mission for freshly-bought Win 7: to download Firefox.
Windows still shows almost 80% market share in Indonesia...
I wonder where on Earth is Linux more used? Germany?
Because the awesome bar is.. awesome!
I do a lot of business in Indonesia and Malaysia, as well as Egypt and Peru. The browsers people use, and versions they use, have to do with bandwidth, which in turn has to do with availability of affordable computers. In countries where the hyper-rich are the only ones with internet, they tend to have whatever speed of PC and bandwidth they want. As the nation gets more and more penetration, and "emerging middle class" starts to get online more (the case in Indonesia and Malaysia and Egypt), bandwidth tends to be a moving target, getting more strained as more people use it. Anyway, my experience is that liberal internet access tends to reward browsers and programs that run with less bandwidth, less strain on CPU, etc.
Gently reply
GTFO loser.
Instead of spouting your off topic gibberish quoted below:
".resol OFTG" - by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 09, @02:48PM (#36074488)
Ahem: Why don't you instead TRY to disprove the 20++ points I listed in favor of HOSTS files over AdBlock &/or DNS Servers alone, instead of your ad hominem attack based off topic gibberish?
APK
P.S.=> I know WHY you don't: It's because you CAN'T...
I.E.-> The points in my original post you replied to, off topic as you did? They are just way, Way, WAY TOO SOLID for the likes of an "off topic troll" like yourself to even BEGIN to have the intelligence, or knowledgebase, to get the better of them: Period (and, you KNOW it)
... apk
Disprove the points I put out in favor of HOSTS files over Adblock &/or DNS Servers alone here, why don't you:
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2136896&cid=36071264
(Oh, that's right: That'd clearly be beyond your abilities/means! Keep running troll... lol!)
APK
P.S.=> So, that "all said & aside": You can try your "hit & run" downmod via your registered account(s) here, which are doubtless more than just 1, & troll me as you have as well... but, in the end?
Well - It's ending up with you looking very silly running away from a simple challenge I have put forth your way, of having you disprove the 20++ points in favor of HOSTS files over AdBlock &/or DNS servers alone (which you clearly will ALWAYS run away from, like the off topic trolling cowardly scum you are)... apk
"ReVeRsE-PsYcHoLoGy":
Tell APK to GTFO and he will never, never leave. APK looks silly. Everyone wins.
So, disprove the 20++ points in favor of HOSTS files I put out in my original post here:
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2136896&cid=36071264
LMAO - I always get HUGE amusement from watching little ad hominem attack using anonymous COWARD (emphasizing it in your case) trolls like yourself, outright RUN from doing that... lol!
APK
P.S.=> So, in the end? All You have your mod down via your registered account, but that's about it, lol.... nothing of substance from you that makes that initial post of mine on the benefits of HOSTS files over AdBlock &/or DNS Servers alone look bad whatsoever... lol, which IS JUST HOW I LIKE IT! apk
Instead of tossing your effete b.s. around here & making me laugh hugely as you do, via your NUMEROUS registered "luser" accounts (what # are they up to now Mike)?
Why don't YOU try & disprove my 20++ points in favor of HOSTS files here instead:
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2136896&cid=36071264
LMAO - See, I always get HUGE amusement from watching little trolls like yourself, outright RUN from doing that, & every damn time too, lol!
APK
P.S.=> So, again - in the end?
All You have your mod down via your registered accounts & ad hominem attacks, but that's about it, lol.... nothing of substance from you that makes that initial post of mine on the benefits of HOSTS files over AdBlock &/or DNS Servers alone look bad whatsoever... lol, which IS JUST HOW I LIKE IT! apk
Disprove the 20++ points in favor of HOSTS files I put out in my original post here:
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2136896&cid=36071264
LMAO - I always get HUGE amusement from watching little ad hominem attack using trolls like yourself, outright RUN from doing that... lol!
APK
P.S.=> So, in the end? All You have your mod down via your registered account, but that's about it, lol.... nothing of substance from you that makes that initial post of mine on the benefits of HOSTS files over AdBlock &/or DNS Servers alone look bad whatsoever... lol, which IS JUST HOW I LIKE IT!
... apk
Disprove the 20++ points in favor of HOSTS files I put out in my original post here:
http://news.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2136896&cid=36071264 [slashdot.org]
LMAO - I always get HUGE amusement from watching little ad hominem attack using trolls like yourself, outright RUN from doing that... lol!
(Oh: &, I would have called you "the Shah of 'U RAN'", but I don't think that's "politically correct" (literally, nowadays))...
APK
P.S.=> So, in the end? All You have your mod down via your registered account, but that's about it, lol.... nothing of substance from you that makes that initial post of mine on the benefits of HOSTS files over AdBlock &/or DNS Servers alone look bad whatsoever... lol, which IS JUST HOW I LIKE IT!
... apk