Ask Slashdot: How Should Sony Compensate PSN Users?

ogar572 writes "So Sony is going to give 20 million+ PlayStation Network users (numbers vary based on what article you read) two free games and free credit protection (US only) for what happened a few weeks ago. I for one do miss playing Black Ops online, but I have made it through this outage by doing other, more productive things. What I am most frustrated about is the lack of consistent details and information via email about what is going on. Now Sony says that they are going to compensate us with two free downloadable games (more than likely I have never heard of these games before). I would have been satisfied with the free credit protection. Now that they want to offer me 2 games, why can't I pick any 2 games that I want? I mean, my personal info is now probably being sold on the black market because of Sony. What do you think Sony should do, if anything, to compensate for what has happened?"

Comments

Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[FineGuy]

Well what do you want exactly? Shit happens. I will see slashdotters complaining about this whole thing again on this story. Some even complained that Sony isn't bringing PSN up while it was insecure. Yeah yeah, Sony is evil, they tried to boot off hackers from the games, why isn't sony giving us ponies after this and could we please have someone mention the 10 year old audio cd DRM thing just one more time?

What I want from Sony:
- Two free games
- A free dinner at a fine restaurant with a female Sony representative (hey, can't get a date, so might just go for it!)
- A nice big mansion
- My own yatch
- A Thai ladyboy for some fun

I think it's only fair. I mean, my personal info is now probably being sold on the black market because of Sony.

Now, we get you're disappointed at Sony. Then stop buying their products and get on with your life. The time you're spending on ranting about this (and then completely forgetting the thing until next /. story comes) you could actually be productive and do some work. Then maybe instead of trying to figure out what to demand from Sony you could just buy those things. And no, recession isn't an excuse. There is always some work available for a young fine fella who isn't afraid to work hard and enjoy the results.

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[Lord Byron II]

It's not that anyone wants a pony, it's that Sony has seriously put a lot of people's information at risk. A stolen credit card can lead to your credit card being shut off at very inopportune times (I once had mine stolen and shutoff at the beginning of a month long trip in Europe. I had trouble even checking into my hotel because the credit card I gave them to hold the reservation no longer worked.). Even worse, if the thieves manage to damage your credit, that is exceptionally hard to repair and will stay with you for at least seven years. In the extreme, you could find yourself unable to buy a car or a house, or even turned down for a job (since some employers check credit history).

The question is that given Sony has put some many people at so much risk, are two games of their choosing and some credit monitoring enough to compensate?

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[redemtionboy]

So their F*(K up means they shouldn't try to remedy the situation at all? Personally I expect Sony to do nothing, but they should do something. I was very pleased when Microsoft gave everyone a free a game for their system outage a few years ago. We buy these systems and games with the expected notion that we're going to get to use the futures. Things happen and shit breaks, I understand that, but the company SHOULD do something.

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[x*yy*x]

It seems like you're mostly worrying about your credit. That was the first thing Sony fixed by offering free credit protection. I think it should be something related anyway.

What is funny about the submitter is that he would had been just fine with only credit protection. Now that he got some extra compensation too he suddenly starts thinking what more he could demand. People...

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[Mongoose Disciple]

I think you're missing the point.

It's not about what Sony "owes" anyone or what they deserve.

It's what it will take for consumers to be willing to take another chance on PSN.

Since so many popular games are crippled without online play, for the PS3 to be relevant, people have to want to use PSN. If they aren't, Sony essentially loses in the videogame arena forever and becomes a cautionary tale.

Personally? I can't even imagine what Sony could do at this point to make me want, for example, to give them my credit card number, so I am going to stop buying their products and get on with my life -- but not everyone thinks as I do, and there's some segment of the market they can win back over through naked bribery. As much as they can even semi-reasonably do so, they have to to remain relevant.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Sony fucked up so bad with the security of their online play offering they've made Microsoft look good by comparison. Rehabilitating their image from that will not be easy -- it isn't the biggest mistake a gaming company's ever made by a longshot, but it's going to hurt their reputation badly for a long time, and there's a big market cost for that.

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[Reverand Dave]

This was more than just a run of the mill "Our servers accidentally imploded" downtime also, this was blatant negligence on the part of Sony. It's one thing when a WoW baby cries because the servers are down for extended maintenance, this was criminal negligence on Sony's part in failing to provide adequate protection for their users data thus violating their own EULA, so some recompense should be more than just a bit obligatory.

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[uniquename72]

If "credit protection" worked like you seem to think it does, none of us would need it because we'd already be protected. In fact, "credit protection" is a big, time consuming pain in the ass that only works (if it works at all) for a limited time and in limited circumstances.

But in this case the point is moot, since Sony isn't actually offering you anything at all.

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[TemperedAlchemist]

I agree. Too few people are on Sony's side here. Most have jumped onto the Sony hate bandwagon infested with arrogance and ignorance. All I've heard is people bitching about how Sony is slow to inform people, but then when they keep people in the loop, people bitch about how Sony told them what they knew, and revised it when they learned more about the incident.

Quit being hypocrites.

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[Homr Zodyssey]

The message from Sony is. In recompense for recent events, a sum of $100 to you will be given. Please to provide name, birthday, social security number, telefone and bank account number for deposit.

Quamey Boeteng,
Sony Networks, Nigeria

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[nschubach]

You know your credit really isn't at risk unless you do it, right? If someone steals your card and charges up $15k in charges that are not yours, you call the credit card company, tell them you did not buy those (they are likely to call you first actually.... I've had it happen) and you get the charges reversed and a new card issued.

It's dead simple and not a real concern, IMHO.

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[Lord Byron II]

Worst case scenarios:

-They use your existing credit card. You report it to the credit card company who disables your card and sends out a new one. For the week that you don't have the card, you can't use it. The law allows the credit card company to hold you responsible for the first $50 of fraudulent activity. Some credit card companies charge for a new card if your old one is stolen or misused (mine charges $10). In the end, you can't use your card for a week, and you could be out $60.

-They use your existing debit card. You report it to the bank who disables your card. The bank, however, is not responsible for refunding the fraudulent charges. Your entire bank account could be wiped out and you could be left with numerous overdraft fees. In the end, you're broke.

-They open a new line of credit in your name. You don't find out until you go to buy a car or a house or change jobs and only then you find out that you're considered an extreme credit risk. Some credit lines adjust your interest rate based on your credit score, so you could find that your existing credit card interest rate goes through the roof, even though that particular card isn't involved. It can take years to correct bad credit information, so in the end, you can't make any major purchases and you might not even be able to get a job.

Yes, these are the extreme examples, but they aren't that far-fetched.

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[shadowfaxcrx]

To be intellectually honest, this question should be re-asked about 6 months from now after the Sony hackers have had time to steal more identities ;)

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[Jim_Maryland]

I've seen several examples of this, two affecting my me and my wife, one affecting a neighbor. - Me: My Visa debit card had a few mysterious charges that were caught by the bank before I even had my next statement. I was inconvenienced by it since I was out and my card was declined at a restaurant. The bank cleared up all the charges, but I was fortunate to have some cash on hand to cover the bill when the card was denied because of the bank deactivating it.

- Wife: Similar situation, her card had a few small charges on it and one big charge from an auto repair shop over in Pakistan. We caught that one when the balance ended up way off. I recall it being about 4 smaller charges that could be accounted by both of us having access and the total for those being less than $25 total but the $1500 charge for the auto repair shop jumped out at us.

- Neighbor has the last name Smith and someone apparently with the same name (living about 10 miles away from us) opened several accounts/cards in their common name with the rest of her information but another address. My neighbor spent about 2 years trying to resolve the problem.

I don't think the parents examples are too extreme.

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[AK Marc]

Credit protection works only in the US because in most other places, people are immune to such problems. Rather than taking the point that credit protection is US only to mean that Sony is attacking the rest of the world, you should be noting that no one else needing credit protection indicates that the banks in the US have waged a war against their customers and won. In the US, you have to protect yourself against the banks libeling you and blaming you for letting them do it. But the rest of the world doesn't have that problem...

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[AK Marc]

They use your existing debit card. You report it to the bank who disables your card. The bank, however, is not responsible for refunding the fraudulent charges. Your entire bank account could be wiped out and you could be left with numerous overdraft fees. In the end, you're broke.

Unless they use it as a debit card (your PIN, which would not be in Sony's records), the rules are the same as credit cards with the difference being that they aren't required to refund your money while determining whether it was actually fraud. So yes, you could be broke for a bit, but you should get it all back. If they used your PIN (say, a robber that stole it and your PIN was written on the card) then the bank will assert that you broke the rules that protected you and you are responsible for 100% of the losses. If they use it as a credit card, signing your name fraudulently, the bank is responsible for the fraud, not you. They are even responsible for skimmers that give them the card and PIN, but it takes longer to get your money back when they think you did something wrong, like share your PIN.

Perhaps that's not the requirement by law, but on the 5 debit cards I've had from different banks, all have followed that. I've never had a card in my life (and I collected then in college for fun, having $2000 per year income and 50+ cards with $100,000+ available credit) that would have charged me a cent had I been the victim of fraud. So perhaps there are some cards that target "subrprime" card holders with abusive terms, but everything mainstream does actually do a good job of protecting you.

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[similar_name]

I never thought of it before but I recently moved and went online to USPS to forward my mail. All that was required was the old address, the new address and a credit card charge of $1 to confirm identity. Once a crook gets a card in your name they can forward your mail.

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[node 3]

The people that use terms like "nanny states" tend to be the ones that think personal responsibility is only something that the victims should have, not the perpetrators. What about Sony taking responsibility for *their* actions (which they do appear to be doing, which is good). The problem isn't that people trusted Sony in the first place (as the OP claims), it's that they somehow demand perfection. It's completely rational to place trust in others. But it's completely irrational to expect others to be perfect.

If Sony had deliberately screwed their users, then all trust should be lost. But that's not what Sony did. They made a mistake, and are now having to deal with it. If they deal with it responsibly, trust can be maintained. If not, then trust can be lost.

But to act like trust shouldn't even exist? Nonsense.

Re:Yeah, I want a Sony Pony too

[zippthorne]

Many banks are now offering contractual terms that match the credit card's legally limited liability for that very reason. I would not suggest even having a debit card that does not have such a contractual liability limit.

Give OtherOS back

[Anonymous Coward]

And some sushi would be nice

Re:sony eats dink

[x*yy*x]

allow hackers to flash custom firmwares and still play on PSN for starters.

Yeah, what about if we keep hackers out of PSN? Mess up with your own console all you want, but don't come ruin my online game with cheats.

They already did them a favour.

[mevets]

1. They helped them kick the habit.
2. They introduced them to other game devices.
3. They taught them the dangers of undeserved trust.

These are pretty big lessons.

Re:They already did them a favour.

[Pharmboy]

I still say hari cari is the appropriate response. It is Japanese, it has a long tradition, and will reduce the chance that Sony does something similar in the future.

This would include for all the executives involved in the root kit scandal, removing "other OS", and all their other instances of raping the public.

Waht should Sony do?

[Red Flayer]

What do you think Sony should do, if anything, to compensate for what has happened?"

IMO, Sony should do nothing. They should pack it all in and sell off their assets to competitors.

How many times does Sony have to abuse our trust before we stop going back like some beaten spouse who thinks maybe, just maybe, this time he really means it when he says he's done drinking and is going to counseling and will really change?

Sony is no longer, if it ever was, a company with which you should place any trust. They have deliberately infected machines with malware. They have a record of producing shitty stuff (like exploding batteries). They failed to take proper precautions to protect personal information.

It's time for Sony to take the honorable way out and commit seppuku.

Re:Waht should Sony do?

[Red Flayer]

You write like Sony exists in a vacuum. They do not.

They have competitors who could take up their slack.

So I vented my frustration with Sony in a slightly creative way.

The fact that they provide people with the things they want, and they are still in business pretty much proves that they are doing more good than bad...

False. All it proves is that they are good at advertising, marketing, and PR. Nothing else.

I used to think Sony made good products... either I was wrong or they have changed. My experience with them over the past five years or so has made me realize that they are a relatively shitty company.

To top off the horseshit mentioned in my first post, let us not forget that Sony is an enemy of open standards. Blu-Ray. Sony Memory Sticks. It goes back at least as far as Betamax (I doubt you're old enough to remember those).

I accuse Sony of being a shitty company, and here you are defending them just like an abused spouse will defend his or her abuser. Surely THIS time they will really quit drinking and beating you, right?

All I Want.

[Seumas]

All I want is for Sony to get things back online and learn some lessons from this. I don't want gifts or subscriptions or any other stuff. Just learn the importance of pro-active security measures. Always be validating the integrity of your systems. Have people on the payroll who can deal with these things instead of having to hire out for them after the fact. Especially when you're directly involved in litigation and supposedly under threats of "hacker" groups. And learn how to communicate with your customers. Take a lesson from the LastPass guys, for example.

I don't want trinkets. Just get your shit together.

Re:All I Want.

[x*yy*x]

Have people on the payroll who can deal with these things instead of having to hire out for them after the fact.

I think it was extremely good Sony hired outside investigation. It could just as well been a dishonest employee and often in this type of things it is. Several million credit cards info on your hands and always some low paid guy will turn dishonest.

I'm not from the US

[joaommp]

What about me? So, they fsck up for everybody, but only US users get some sort of compensation and protection from THEIR mistakes?

I say...

[torgis]

...we nuke the whole thing from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Nothing?

[Anrego]

my personal info is now probably being sold on the black market because of Sony

This really is the key here. They can compensate people for the down time... but there is very little they can really do about the personal information thing, which to me is a much bigger deal. They can't compensate everyone adequately, they'd go bankrupt. What they _could_ do is offer the token compensation they are proposing, and have a much bigger compensation package for anyone who can prove they got screwed due to their info leaking out. Maybe free hardware and access for life or something. Not really much benifit to them though, and would probably be abused somehow.

I've already ranted that our system in general is screwed up, and while there are (some) legal protections, the kind of data Sony had to be stolen should in a perfect world be of no concern. Relying on any piece of information that can't readily be changed as a credential (and in too many cases the only credential) is insane. And before I get flamed, no, I don't have a solution at hand... but surely we can come up with something better than "yup, the address matches, here's a credit card!".

As a close second option, I'd love a system where Sony doesn't need any of that data. All they need is a _public_ credit card number and some kind of auth code that's generated via keyfob/SMS message/whatever and is tied to company/amount/date. If we didn't have to give all our personal info to every company we do business to, this would mitigate these kind of issues.

Without PSN

[mehrotra.akash]

Make it compulsory for ALL new games to be functional without requiring PSN even once

You should be able to buy a PS3 and use it till the end of its Hardware life without any internet access at all

I Want Sony to Scrub My Info

[ThePolkapunk]

Instead of free games, I want a method by which Sony will completely delete all information they have about me. Regardless of how responsible they'll be in the future, they had their chance and they blew it.

Oh please

[Tarlus]

Now that they want to offer me 2 games, why can't I pick any 2 games that I want?

Cry me a fucking river. You get your free credit protection, what more do you want for not being able to play your precious video games through a free online service?

(I presume based on the OP's inane whining that they are not paying for PSN+.)

Actual Compensation for Losses

[Fulminata]

Having never owned a PS3, I was not personally affected by this breach, but I have friends who were. The offer by Sony to provide free credit protection is admirable, but the offer came too late for those I know who were affected. They signed up for their own credit protection plans as soon as they became aware of the problem, while Sony did not offer protection until some time after. They might be able to switch over now to Sony's free plan, but they should be compensated for the money they were already forced to spend on their own credit protection. Given the difficulty in determining who paid how much for what, a blanket $20 payment for everyone affected would not be unreasonable.

Satisfied but...

[rockman_x_2002]

I'm satisfied with the consumer-end bargains that they're offering for PSN users like myself. The one year of identity theft protection is a big help, plus two game, even downloadable ones, are a nice touch as well. Retail vouchers would've been better, of course.

But the only other thing I can ask is that, going forward, Sony should now be required to answer to a higher-up authority in regards to network security. What I mean is that, since Sony dropped the ball on such a massive scale, it could be argued that Sony should have to retain the services of a third-party security firm (not the government, mind you) to provide auditing and oversight at all times over the PSN, ensuring that this kind of breach can never happen again. Or at least, if such a breach occurs, consumer data is protected against the intrusion. This includes making sure that Sony keeps everything up to date, encrypted appropriately, and completely separate credit card information, personal data, and game-related profiles on their web servers into different locations so that hacking a user's gamer profile doesn't grant access to his/her personal data or credit card info.

Agree not to sue?

[stoicfaux]

Question: in order to receive the free games, will you have to accept a click-through agreement and sign away your right to sue Sony over the breach?

Free credit protection + actual damages

[davidwr]

1) Free credit protection for at least a year
2) Reimburse banks for reasonable and actual costs of changing credit card numbers for customers who want to do so.
3) Change their back-end so this information isn't stored longer than it's needed, working with banks if necessary.
4) Any customers who have under-$1000 actual damages beyond this should be reimbursable upon proof of loss and anyone with higher claims reimbursable upon proof of loss and at least a cursory fraud investigation (yes, people will try to scam Sony if they do this)

By the way, the banking industry needs to come up with a way of "limited use" credit card numbers that are good for only a single payee for recurring purchases like online services, utilities, etc. where the account number will be stored for longer than one billing cycle. That way if it gets stolen it's useless.

Re:how about no

[tbannist]

The BSA has a bad reputation of simply going after companies who have disgruntled employees and forcing them to prove that they own every a copy of Windows for every computer they have. I've heard that companies usually just pay the fine rather than go through the cost of auditing every computer they have. It's still a shakedown, but one that only targets companies.

Take a page from Google

[wjousts]

Since PSN user's personal information has been stolen, Sony should take [Google CEO] Eric Schmidt's advice and help all their users change their names. Problem solved!

Re:Not at all

[Labcoat Samurai]

Sony is giving you a free service that you didn't pay anything for.

I paid $600 for it. It came as part of a bundle with some hardware.

The traditional ways are best

[Arrogant-Bastard]

Given that Sony's executives have dishonored their ancestors and shamed themselves, I think apologizing in the traditional manner is completely appropriate. Users should be demanding this -- and moreover, demanding that it be webcast live, so that everyone can bear witness. On a more pragmatic level, executives are of course disposable and easily replaceable, so it really would have no meaningful impact on corporate operations.