Bin Laden's Sneakernet Email System

The Onion Router by DriedClexler · 2011-05-13 02:42 · Score: 1

Why couldn't he just use Tor? Heckuva lot simpler and less vulnerable to betrayal by associates.

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Re:The Onion Router by badran · 2011-05-13 02:45 · Score: 2

A tor node in Pakistan would not be suspicious at all.
Re:The Onion Router by x6060 · 2011-05-13 02:56 · Score: 5, Insightful

Tor does have a few potential vulnerabilities and it would not surprise me in the least if the NSA did have a way of tracking it. The way Osama decided to do it shifted the vulnerability from an electronic one to a personal loyalty one. With his age, experience and knowledge im sure he was able to better control and protect the later rather than the former. Its also very similar to his previous methods. Low tech - High concept.
Re:The Onion Router by darjen · 2011-05-13 02:58 · Score: 5, Insightful

Because everyone knows the FBI/CIA/NSA operate "anonymous" Tor nodes.
Re:The Onion Router by x6060 · 2011-05-13 02:59 · Score: 5, Insightful

I also feel the need to point out that this was probably not so much an attempt to thwart eavesdropping, but to mask his location.
Re:The Onion Router by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-13 03:10 · Score: 1

Huge vulnerability in that someone with enough resources could run a large number of nodes that could help track down people.
Almost makes me wonder if anyone has done any tests to see if it was possible.
Open wi-fi + a target that they couldn't resist = crackdown if they are capable of finding people.
Of course, this is very gray area stuff so just take note of that. Government agencies wouldn't hesitate to mess you up for wasting their time.
Re:The Onion Router by ashidosan · 2011-05-13 03:18 · Score: 1

Tor may hide the endpoints to a midpoint party, but you can bet it would only be a matter of time before the closest exit node to Pakistan would be honeypotted.
http://cryptome.org/0003/tor-spy.htm
Re:The Onion Router by conspirator57 · 2011-05-13 03:19 · Score: 5, Interesting

10,000 tor nodes with hundreds going up and down every day in different locations would be as difficult to track through as physically going door-to-door searching the entire populace. that's part of why tor was built: to enable communication of persecuted minorities. when we built tor we were thinking post-tienanmen democracy advocates in china. our noble intentions in building tor don't keep the technology from being useful to other persecuted minorities that we don't like.

--
"If still these truths be held to be
Self evident."
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Re:The Onion Router by ObsessiveMathsFreak · 2011-05-13 03:24 · Score: 1

Because a Tor user would have been a lot easier to track down.

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Re:The Onion Router by LWATCDR · 2011-05-13 03:31 · Score: 2

Well Tor has been shown to be vulnerable from time to time http://www.google.com/search?aq=1&oq=Tor+vu&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=tor+vulnerabilities and the US has a lot of resources to throw at the problem I wouldn't bet on that being as good of a solution.
Frankly The lack of wifi, cell, internet, and phone in a big expensive home in a well to do town in Pakistan was probably a bit red flag. I mean really it is like going to a Rave in a three piece suit, sunglasses and sporting a buzz cut.
If they where smart they would have had a few cell phones that they used to call women on and chat about going out, and an internet connection where they went and played Farmville.

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Re:The Onion Router by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-13 04:20 · Score: 1

Or, while he was a lot of things, he wasn't a geek, and simply didn't know about TOR.
Re:The Onion Router by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-13 04:37 · Score: 1

Yes, because VPN doesn't exist at all and it would be impossible to get a VPS account in some random US hosting company, run a tor node there and do a VPN connection from Pakistan to the US hosting company.
Protip: learn2internet
Re:The Onion Router by Scooter's_dad · 2011-05-13 04:41 · Score: 1

Though that "red flag" isn't what tripped him up in the end. They tracked him through information acquired about one of his couriers; the lack of phone/internet at the house didn't seem to play any role in locating him.

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Re:The Onion Router by chispito · 2011-05-13 04:47 · Score: 1

Why couldn't he just use Tor?
He didn't encrypt anything either, from the accounts I've read.

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Re:The Onion Router by icebraining · 2011-05-13 05:00 · Score: 1

Does it need you to "leave" Tor (as in communicate with a normal server)? Because they could run an email server as a hidden service and have all communications happen "inside" Tor.

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Re:The Onion Router by LWATCDR · 2011-05-13 05:02 · Score: 1

A. you need to develop a sense of whimsy.
and
2. That is what they want you to think. I am telling you Farmville would have saved him.

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Re:The Onion Router by icebraining · 2011-05-13 05:03 · Score: 1

Why would he need an exit node? Email server running on a hidden node, never leaving the Tor network.

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Re:The Onion Router by Scooter's_dad · 2011-05-13 05:13 · Score: 2

I've got loads of whimsy. It's moxie I lack.

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The road to hell is paved with Cat 5 cable.
Re:The Onion Router by Shotgun · 2011-05-13 05:14 · Score: 2

What makes you think he, or anyone in his organization, had/have any idea, whatsoever, what Tor is? Why do you assume that your area of expertise is common knowledge throughout the world?

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Re:The Onion Router by bjoeg · 2011-05-13 06:13 · Score: 1

If you were Bin Laden on a "holy war" against US, would you trust an anonymity network originally sponsored by the US Military?
Re:The Onion Router by BitZtream · 2011-05-13 06:33 · Score: 1, Informative

that's part of why tor was built: to enable communication of persecuted minorities. when we built tor we were thinking post-tienanmen democracy advocates in china. our noble intentions in building tor don't keep the technology from being useful to other persecuted minorities that we don't like.
...
Or it was designed for military communications between ships by hopping on other ships signals not under the control of the US Navy without needing direct secure links between US Navy ships.

to enable communication of persecuted minorities
Quit making shit up. You just totally made up a reason for creating Tor that has nothing to do with the actual reason it was created.

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Re:The Onion Router by dpilot · 2011-05-13 06:43 · Score: 1

I wouldn't call the first part of your characterization accurate at all.
And if it was, and if bin Laden was a hired hand, who hired him?

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The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Re:The Onion Router by Betaemacs · 2011-05-13 06:55 · Score: 1

What makes you assume that a man with millions of dollars at his disposal cannot hire whatever IT services he desires? Even if you limit the possible pool to Arabic IT professionals you are dealing with a large group of people. Is it so hard to believe that at least one of them either shares his ideology or doesn't care and just wants the money? As you see everyday in the news, there are always people willing to do anything for money. There are probably more than a handful of Americans who would have taken the job, with 300 million people it would be darn near a certainty.
Re:The Onion Router by countertrolling · 2011-05-13 06:57 · Score: 1

Don't know yet.. They 'burned the tapes'... The lessons of Watergate did not go unheeded.. All the remaining publicly available evidence is purely 'circumstantial".. Everything else was destroyed or classified..

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Re:The Onion Router by couchslug · 2011-05-13 07:12 · Score: 1

It's as basic as can be, and dates back before flash drives. If OBL read Slashdot he'd have known about this years ago:
http://tinfoilhat.shmoo.com/readme.txt

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Re:The Onion Router by conspirator57 · 2011-05-13 07:48 · Score: 3, Insightful

https://www.torproject.org/about/torusers.html.en#activists

* Human rights activists use Tor to anonymously report abuses from danger zones. Internationally, labor rights workers use Tor and other forms of online and offline anonymity to organize workers in accordance with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Even though they are within the law, it does not mean they are safe. Tor provides the ability to avoid persecution while still raising a voice.
* When groups such as the Friends Service Committee and environmental groups are increasingly falling under surveillance in the United States under laws meant to protect against terrorism, many peaceful agents of change rely on Tor for basic privacy during legitimate activities.
* Human Rights Watch recommends Tor in their report, “ Race to the Bottom: Corporate Complicity in Chinese Internet Censorship.” The study co-author interviewed Roger Dingledine, Tor project leader, on Tor use. They cover Tor in the section on how to breach the “Great Firewall of China,” and recommend that human rights workers throughout the globe use Tor for “secure browsing and communications.”
* Tor has consulted with and volunteered help to Amnesty International's recent corporate responsibility campaign. See also their full report on China Internet issues.
* Global Voices recommends Tor, especially for anonymous blogging, throughout their web site.
* In the US, the Supreme Court recently stripped legal protections from government whistleblowers. But whistleblowers working for governmental transparency or corporate accountability can use Tor to seek justice without personal repercussions.
* A contact of ours who works with a public health nonprofit in Africa reports that his nonprofit must budget 10% to cover various sorts of corruption, mostly bribes and such. When that percentage rises steeply, not only can they not afford the money, but they can not afford to complain — this is the point at which open objection can become dangerous. So his nonprofit has been working to use Tor to safely whistleblow on government corruption in order to continue their work.
* At a recent conference, a Tor staffer ran into a woman who came from a “company town” in the eastern United States. She was attempting to blog anonymously to rally local residents to urge reform in the company that dominated the town's economic and government affairs. She is fully cognizant that the kind of organizing she was doing could lead to harm or “fatal accidents.”
* In east Asia, some labor organizers use anonymity to reveal information regarding sweatshops that produce goods for western countries and to organize local labor.
* Tor can help activists avoid government or corporate censorship that hinders organization. In one such case, a Canadian ISP blocked access to a union website used by their own employees to help organize a strike.
it was funded by both NRL and EFF concurrently. i am not making things up, you are denying reality.

--
"If still these truths be held to be
Self evident."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay
Re:The Onion Router by pluther · 2011-05-13 10:18 · Score: 1

Because somebody willing to do anything for money would be a person you want to trust with the keys to your entire organization? Or do you expect that there are going to be many people who are both highly trained IT personell and rabid religious extremists who reject all modern ideas?

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If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
Re:The Onion Router by Betaemacs · 2011-05-13 11:45 · Score: 1

You realize IT is not terribly difficult to learn don't you? Why many of us here have been rather accomplished at it since we were children and for most of us that was back when a computer didn't do much until you learned how to tell it to do something (programming). It is a bit complex, but all that means is it takes time to learn, fanatics if nothing else have lots of dedication. This shouldn't be news for you, many of our largest companies have IT personnel, CFOs, CEOs and so on that will do anything for money. It's not that uncommon in business, there have been many books and articles on the subject. Lastly the idea that Bin Laden and his entire organization are "rabid religious extremists who reject all modern ideas" is blatant propaganda. He himself was an educated man as were / are many others in the group. Just because someone is an enemy doesn't mean they cannot be skilled and accomplished. Underestimating an enemy historically has not worked out so well for those foolhardy enough to make that mistake.

Why didn't he just use by Shanrak · 2011-05-13 02:43 · Score: 5, Funny

RFC 1149?

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Re:Why didn't he just use by gv250 · 2011-05-13 03:32 · Score: 1

Why didn't he just use RFC 3514?
Re:Why didn't he just use by conspirator57 · 2011-05-13 03:47 · Score: 1

Pigeons are not halal.
pure win.

--
"If still these truths be held to be
Self evident."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay
Re:Why didn't he just use by Vlad_the_Inhaler · 2011-05-13 04:18 · Score: 1

RFC 3514 dates from 2003, and would not really be of much help in hiding things.
RFC 2549 dates from 1999 and was successfully used for a demonstration in late April 2001 ("ping" was implemented).

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Re:Why didn't he just use by treeves · 2011-05-13 05:20 · Score: 1

But they are tasty.

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Re:Why didn't he just use by Grandim · 2011-05-13 10:56 · Score: 1

RFC 1149 is vulnerable to man-with-gun-in-the-middle attacks of which there is plenty of in Pakistan.

Painstaking? by j00r0m4nc3r · 2011-05-13 02:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

How is that painstaking? That's like calling writing a telegram painstaking.

Re:Painstaking? by gstoddart · 2011-05-13 02:48 · Score: 3, Interesting

How is that painstaking? That's like calling writing a telegram painstaking.
Or, no more complicated than the tradecraft of cold-war era spies.
This sounds like nothing more than well-established stuff that likely goes back to WWII if not before, and that you can read about in any Tom Clancy novel.
Who knew ... the easiest way to avoid getting detected by a massive, international signals intelligence network, is to not use methods that give them anything to listen to.
I'm completely shocked ... next thing they'll tell us about one-time-pads.

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Re:Painstaking? by vinn · 2011-05-13 03:04 · Score: 1

I totally agree - that was the first thought that crossed my mind when I read this. This system is dumb and simple.
What would be more interesting to find out is why the US couldn't eavesdrop on the email and figure out where it came from. I was under the impression with things like ECHELON we could just read every email ever sent anywhere in the world. Or, did bin Laden write in such a way that it didn't trigger it to get picked up? Or, did he actually use some kind of encryption?

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Re:Painstaking? by 228e2 · 2011-05-13 03:10 · Score: 1

I agree. I was expecting to hear some complicated eluding system where the courier didnt use the same cafe twice in a year and often went as far as 50 miles and created a new email address each time composed of some longitude/constellation combination. For a paranoid mastermind, this is full of weaksauce.

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Re:Painstaking? by kelemvor4 · 2011-05-13 03:21 · Score: 1
Seems like an accurate description to me
1. 1. Type Message
2. 2. Save as file
3. 3. Copy to thumbdrive
4. 4. Have servant drive it across country
5. 5. Have servant copy it off the thumb drive into an email
6. 6. Have servant click send
VS.
1. 1. Type Message
2. 2. Click send
In fact, short of carrier pigeons it's probably one of the most painstaking methods I've heard of to send a message.
Re:Painstaking? by gstoddart · 2011-05-13 03:29 · Score: 1

In fact, short of carrier pigeons it's probably one of the most painstaking methods I've heard of to send a message.
You've never received email through UUCP bang-path addressing then or set it up then.
This is how people used to communicate when they had need of security ... hell, it's probably straight out of a CIA handbook from the 50s or 60s (or a KGB manual from the same era).
It's not even a new technique ... substitute a thumb drive for a piece of paper with a cipher, and the technique is probably centuries old.
Maybe for someone who grew up in a world where everyone has text messages and email this sounds convoluted ... the to rest of it, it's pretty much old hat. Hell, read a spy novel -- this is a very well known technique for maintaining security and secrecy.

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Painstaking? by conspirator57 · 2011-05-13 03:50 · Score: 1

or at least wherein there are multiple courrier legs and/or dead drops. i mean this sounds simpler than a plot on a prime time crime show.

--
"If still these truths be held to be
Self evident."
-Edna St. Vincent Millay
Re:Painstaking? by timeOday · 2011-05-13 04:00 · Score: 1

I was under the impression with things like ECHELON we could just read every email ever sent anywhere in the world.
Maybe OBL was hard to track because he wasn't saying anything that only he could have said - but then, how could he have remained in power? If the medium for your communications is obfuscated enough that it can't be tracked back to you, how do your followers know your messages are authentic? If you signed your messages with a private key, for example, then the first people to have your new signed messages would be immediately suspect and traced back to you.
This leads me back to how OBL was portrayed before he was found: if not dead, he was said to be incapacitated by the constant threat against him. Only after his final defeat was his image as a acting leader revived. I have to wonder if there isn't an element of propaganda here.
Re:Painstaking? by Darinbob · 2011-05-13 07:43 · Score: 1

It's painstaking since he couldn't just tweet a message while sitting on the toilet. He probably has to wait a whole day or two to get a response to "lunch 2day?" He probably only sees a picture of a cute kitten with a funny caption once a week at most. That's enough to turn anyone violent and deranged.
Re:Painstaking? by goose-incarnated · 2011-05-13 21:22 · Score: 1

"Pains taking", not "pain staking"

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Didn't prevent anything by mr1911 · 2011-05-13 02:46 · Score: 2

Merely delayed it. A bullet in the head is a bullet in the head.

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Re:Didn't prevent anything by owlstead · 2011-05-13 02:54 · Score: 1

Hmm, semantics. He did prevent himself being killed because of the email system. If a doctor cures you from an illness, hasn't he saved you because you die of other causes later?
Re:Didn't prevent anything by Skuto · 2011-05-13 03:00 · Score: 5, Insightful

They found him through a courier. So actually, email did get him killed, sortof.
Re:Didn't prevent anything by Captain+Spam · 2011-05-13 03:01 · Score: 1

Hmm, semantics. He did prevent himself being killed because of the email system. If a doctor cures you from an illness, hasn't he saved you because you die of other causes later?
SLASHDOT: Keeping those happy thoughts and cheerful reminders coming every Friday at work!

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Re:Didn't prevent anything by Anne_Nonymous · 2011-05-13 03:18 · Score: 2

Network lag killed him?
Re:Didn't prevent anything by SomePgmr · 2011-05-13 03:48 · Score: 1

Very much so, I'd say. The lesson here is they can find you no matter what. Even if you're paranoid enough to hide in a hole, buried in someones backyard under a pile of trash, like Hussein.

There's no such thing as the perfect hiding spot in the real world. There's always someone or something that will eventually betray your location. Except maybe for wherever 2-Pac and Elvis have been hiding.
Re:Didn't prevent anything by treeves · 2011-05-13 05:24 · Score: 1

More like a phone call got him killed. That the courier also used email in the past is circumstantial. He probably also delivered food to OBL at some point, but you wouldn't say that he got killed by a falafel.

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Re:Didn't prevent anything by mobby_6kl · 2011-05-13 06:08 · Score: 1

Saddam was found in his cook's house near his own home town because most likely somebody ratted him out for a good chunk of money. It still took almost 9 month to get him.
OBL, well, it took you guys 10 years to find the guy living in a huge compound in an upper-class neighborhood in a major government/military hub city of your regional parter/foe. And you couldn't (or maybe didn't want to) even capture him alive.
What I'm saying is that I'm not too worried. Sure, now it would be trivial to find me based on my browsing, online banking transactions and stuff like that, but if I wanted to disappear, I'm fairly confident I could do that at the expense of some convenience and quality of life.
Re:Didn't prevent anything by BitZtream · 2011-05-13 06:42 · Score: 1

OBL took 10 years to find because he was very well finianced and had the support of a small country helping him hide ... a small country that also claimed it was doing everything it could to help us find him.
In short, had we taken a far less politically correct path, and killed a whole bunch more people years ago by just running over Pakistan and everything in it, we would have likely resolved the OBL issue 8 years ago.
But we didn't.
And we're probably better off for it as I doubt steamrolling over Pakistan would have made us any friends, except for maybe a few politicians from India. It certainly would have cost us ( and them ) a lot more lives, which I for one would like to avoid. I'll fight the fight, but not when we can find a viable alternative solution.

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Re:Didn't prevent anything by mr1911 · 2011-05-13 07:24 · Score: 1

OBL was found by following the courier. The courier that handled the email.

If you jump out of the car's path but get hit by a truck, you are still run over.

OBL didn't avoid capture for so long because he was good at hide-and-seek and had a superior email/sneakernet system. He avoided capture for so long because Pakistan was helping him. The intelligence on his location needed to be very solid for the operation required to get him. Various articles stated the SEALs had orders to fight their way out, even if they had to fight Pakistani forces. Those orders are not handed out lightly, and those missions are not put together over breakfast. He had been under surveillance for awhile.

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UUCP by Dynamoo · 2011-05-13 02:46 · Score: 2

Kind of like mail over UUCP then. (Yes, I am showing my age)

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Re:UUCP by bzImage8 · 2011-05-13 04:03 · Score: 1

UUCP over X.25 or over 300 bauds modems ? that were good times !!

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Re:UUCP by Darinbob · 2011-05-13 07:52 · Score: 1

I remember getting an email reply once from the other side of the world in less than a day and being amazed at how fast things had gotten.

RTFA by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-13 02:48 · Score: 3, Funny

They called it painstaking because the courier was forced to use hotmail to forward the emails.

More info from New Scientist by wjousts · 2011-05-13 02:49 · Score: 5, Interesting

I was about to submit this from New Scientist:

If this newly discovered messaging method is a surprise to western intelligence, however, it means they may not have been monitoring the recipients of his USB-facilitated missives - possibly because Al-Qaida is thought to be using short-lived email addresses after an earlier trick of theirs was rumbled.

That trick? Before 9/11 some of the attackers evaded email surveillance by not sending email. Instead they used webmail services but saved messages as drafts - and then shared their logins with their co-conspirators.

Re:More info from New Scientist by Chrisq · 2011-05-13 02:51 · Score: 1

I was about to submit this from New Scientist:

If this newly discovered messaging method is a surprise to western intelligence, however, it means they may not have been monitoring the recipients of his USB-facilitated missives - possibly because Al-Qaida is thought to be using short-lived email addresses after an earlier trick of theirs was rumbled.

That trick? Before 9/11 some of the attackers evaded email surveillance by not sending email. Instead they used webmail services but saved messages as drafts - and then shared their logins with their co-conspirators.
Mow they just store it on their private facebook profiles.
Re:More info from New Scientist by mcmonkey · 2011-05-13 03:12 · Score: 5, Interesting

That trick? Before 9/11 some of the attackers evaded email surveillance by not sending email. Instead they used webmail services but saved messages as drafts - and then shared their logins with their co-conspirators.
That's pretty clever.
I've often wondered if some gibberish spam contains convert messages of nefarious intent. If you're a known bad guy and want to send email without identifying your cohorts to anyone watching, why not send the same message to thousands (or millions) of addresses? (Assuming your message is adequately coded/encrypted. You don't want to broadcast your plans in plain text.)
Even if the good guys know one of the recipients is a bad guy, they don't know which recipient, and burn a lot of resources eliminating the red herring.
Yes, I know supposedly those gibberish emails are for poisoning spam filters. At least, that's what they want you to believe.
I've thought the same about those spams that were sections of text from famous literature. Again, supposedly targeted to spam filters. Could be a signal for a terrorist in a sleeper cell to go to the local library, go to a certain book, open to a certain page, where the secret plans have been hidden.
Yes, I am convinced all spammers are terrorists.
Re:More info from New Scientist by 140Mandak262Jamuna · 2011-05-13 03:50 · Score: 1

People that clever usually have enough smarts to get a decent job, make enough money for maher (bride price) for at least one wife. One bird in the hand is worth a lot more than 72 in the sky after death. So they usually don't turn suicide bombers.
In fact the stark raving lunacy and incompetence of the terrorists, people who could not set their pants on fire, is the reason why we are safe. Our safety is definetly not because of the mass gate rape by the TSA.
BTW we always append the suffix -gate to for any scandal. The TSA scandal at the airport gates would then be gategate?

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Re:More info from New Scientist by SomePgmr · 2011-05-13 03:53 · Score: 1

I've often wondered if some gibberish spam contains convert messages of nefarious intent.

I don't think that's the case. Money is a sufficient motivator.

Yes, I am convinced all spammers are terrorists.

Nevermind, I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. :)
Re:More info from New Scientist by Dr.+Spork · 2011-05-13 04:04 · Score: 1

A clever idea. Now when I communicate with all my terrorist buddies, the subject will always be something about V1agra and in the body there will be a GIF of something about "Online pharmacy". Then any gibberish text is bound to fly under every radar.
Or, if not - if the CIA really does have to hire some dweebs to sort through all gibberish spam - that's sure to hasten the inevitable death to America. [BTW, if this is being monitored, I should make clear that my "cell" confines its terrorist activities to our AD&D campaign. This is slashdot, after all.]
Re:More info from New Scientist by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-13 04:09 · Score: 1

They actually already have this: http://www.spammimic.com/
It converts from plaintext to spam, and vice versa.
Re:More info from New Scientist by phantomlord · 2011-05-13 04:21 · Score: 2

I'm not sure how "surprising" or novel that is... when I was on Prodigy back around 1991, a bunch of us belonging to a AD&D "group" did something quite similar to avoid the per-message fees for sending to other people. We'd all share a sub-account and deliberately bounce messages so others could log on and read them. If Prodigy closed a sub-account after noticing irregularities (high number of bounces, multiple people trying to log onto the account at the same time, etc), we'd all move to a different sub-account.

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Re:More info from New Scientist by Vlad_the_Inhaler · 2011-05-13 04:25 · Score: 1

Mow they just store it on their private facebook profiles.
Is that why Facebook is so 'all your data belongs to us' insecure?
disclaimer: That comment was not paid for or otherwise sponsored by Google. ;-)

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Re:More info from New Scientist by wjousts · 2011-05-13 05:06 · Score: 1

So what you are saying is that AD&D nerds are actually terrorists? I always suspected as much....
Re:More info from New Scientist by nusuth · 2011-05-13 05:30 · Score: 1

A great idea, having a numbers station for peanuts.

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Re:More info from New Scientist by icebraining · 2011-05-13 05:30 · Score: 1

That generalization is wrong, not every member of Al-Quaeda is poor or stupid (as in, unable to get a decent job). In the 9/11 hijackers and associates there was a son of a wealthy business owner, a brother of a chief of police, law students, an architect, a doctor, etc.

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Re:More info from New Scientist by Frederic54 · 2011-05-13 05:32 · Score: 1

> I've often wondered if some gibberish spam contains convert messages of nefarious intent

IIRC there was a group on usenet for this in the 80s or 90s, you could post a message, encoded with a key à la PGP, then everyone could access/read the encoded message, but only one person was able to decode it properly.

--
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
Re:More info from New Scientist by churchtech · 2011-05-13 06:21 · Score: 1

There's exceptions to every rule, but the vast majority of terrorists aren't people with great promise. Same as the vast majority of criminals. Sure, some are evil geniuses, but most can't find their way out of a paper bag. Osama was smart enough to not get caught for 10 years, which is damn impressive, even if the Pakistanis were helping him out. On the other hand, we've had the shoe bomber, and the underwear bomber.... Not exactly savants.
Re:More info from New Scientist by BitZtream · 2011-05-13 06:48 · Score: 1

I'm pretty confident that every suicide bomber/hijacker/whatever can be considered stupid regardless of their previous accomplishments.
Personally, knowing several business owners, lawyers and doctors, being any of those things doesn't say anything about your intelligence or wisdom, just that you made some good deals, which could be luck, or managed to memorize the right things to satisfy some government requirements.
You are right, these aren't the 'trash' people think of when they think of suicide bomber, but they most certainly qualify as stupid.

--
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
Re:More info from New Scientist by geoffball · 2011-05-13 07:13 · Score: 1

The chair is against the wall. The chair is against the wall. John has a long mustache. John has a long mustache.
Re:More info from New Scientist by cdrguru · 2011-05-13 08:24 · Score: 1

The danger is not of poor, downtrodden people that have nothing to live for. It is people that we would think have everything to live for but yet choose to focus on the benefits in the afterlife. This is not exclusively a Muslim problem as it can happen with Christians as well. No, I do not believe there are any Jews focused on the afterlife as the whole religion doesn't work that way.
Once you have someone that is focused on a better afterlife you can't really do anything to them except kill them. Anything you do - including torture - is a mild annoyance on the way to the afterlife where everything will be perfect. We in our Western philosophies are almost incapable of understanding how a functioning human being can be turned in such a way that life is unimportant and the afterlife is all-consuming. Well, we better wake up or the folks yelling Allah Akbar as they storm the cockpit, plant the bomb or derail the train will succeed - their success means death and lots of it. Isn't that the whole point of being focused on the afterlife, anyway?
Re:More info from New Scientist by Tetsujin · 2011-05-13 09:24 · Score: 1

You need to watch "Four Lions," it pretty much proves what you're saying.
Oh, I like that one... Picard, all grizzled and worn out, standing defiantly, screaming "THERE ARE ... FOUR LIONS!" - never suspecting that a fifth lion actually was being occasionally brought in just to mess with his head.

--
Bow-ties are cool.
Re:More info from New Scientist by Tetsujin · 2011-05-13 09:26 · Score: 1

Yes, I am convinced all spammers are terrorists.
Nevermind, I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. :)
Gasp! You're one of _them_.
what's the number for the FBI?
You don't have to dial. Just pick up a phone and say "I know you're listening, I have to tell you something!" Then say what you have to say.

--
Bow-ties are cool.
Re:More info from New Scientist by hitmark · 2011-05-13 13:09 · Score: 1

Hell, one of the tops (some say the real ideological brains) of the organization have a US engineering degree.

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comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm

All this... by steevven1 · 2011-05-13 02:50 · Score: 2

Yet he never discovered that flash drives are rewritable...

Re:All this... by datapharmer · 2011-05-13 02:56 · Score: 2

More likely he didn't trust using them again after they were plugged into an internet cafe computer. Virus anyone?

--
Get a web developer
Re:All this... by UnknowingFool · 2011-05-13 03:29 · Score: 2

I thought it was interesting that he didn't destroy those drives after using them.

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Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Re:All this... by khr · 2011-05-13 03:54 · Score: 1

I thought it was interesting that he didn't destroy those drives after using them.
Maybe he expected that after he was successful and took over the world he'd have an archive of his communications to put in the equivalent of the presidential archives. Or planned on writing his memoirs when he got old, rich and famous...
Re:All this... by TubeSteak · 2011-05-13 04:43 · Score: 1

More likely he didn't trust using them again after they were plugged into an internet cafe computer. Virus anyone?
What's a virus or trojan going to do with a computer that isn't plugged in to the internet?
It's rare these days that you come across a malicious piece of code that deletes or encrypts your files.

--
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Re:All this... by Kagura · 2011-05-13 09:52 · Score: 1

Stuxnet phoned home despite the Siemens control systems being disconnected from the internet, by using USB thumbdrives.

This explains it then.. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-05-13 02:51 · Score: 4, Funny

Totally explains why he took forever to accept FB friend requests.

Re:All this OBL bullshit by MikeDirnt69 · 2011-05-13 02:57 · Score: 1, Offtopic

Yeah, I can see OBL typing on his White MacBook Pro.

--
Am I eval()? - http://www.monst3r.com.br

Not the first, won't be the last by amw · 2011-05-13 03:00 · Score: 4, Interesting

Although people seem amazed about this, it's not the first time that this has happened.

Back in '98, I worked on a network where it was against Government regulations to connect it in any way to the Internet, and an 'air gap' was required between the two. I was one of a very small team that wrote a system (using Zip disks for storage) that pulled data from a mail server on our secure network and pushed it to a mail server on the Internet, and vice versa. It had very high latency - people were assigned to do the mail drop only twice a day - but it worked well.

Re:Not the first, won't be the last by JonySuede · 2011-05-13 04:14 · Score: 1

and you had no air gap anymore... since your user were now reachable from the net. It was now easy for them to slowly leak information....

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Jehovah be praised, Oracle was not selected
Re:Not the first, won't be the last by leehwtsohg · 2011-05-13 04:25 · Score: 1

Iran also had a system like this for their uranium enrichment, I think.
Re:Not the first, won't be the last by EastCoastSurfer · 2011-05-13 05:57 · Score: 1

I was one of a very small team that wrote a system (using Zip disks for storage) that pulled data from a mail server on our secure network and pushed it to a mail server on the Internet, and vice versa.
Are you sure this is how it worked? Who sanitized the data? Generally speaking any writable media that enters a secure network then also becomes secure and must be verifiably erased (commonly just destroyed) before plugging back into an nonsecure network.
So nonsecure -> secure is fine. Secure -> nonsecure big time no no requiring many signatures and approvals.
Re:Not the first, won't be the last by pz · 2011-05-13 05:59 · Score: 5, Interesting

Although people seem amazed about this, it's not the first time that this has happened.
Back in '98, I worked on a network where it was against Government regulations to connect it in any way to the Internet, and an 'air gap' was required between the two. I was one of a very small team that wrote a system (using Zip disks for storage) that pulled data from a mail server on our secure network and pushed it to a mail server on the Internet, and vice versa. It had very high latency - people were assigned to do the mail drop only twice a day - but it worked well.
My understanding is that in Victorian England, the Royal Mail made hourly deliveries daily to The City (the central-most part of London), and it was entirely possible to carry on a conversation through the day via post, rather like we do today via email. The point here is that nominally the latency in a conversation is not always dominated by the delivery method, but rather the delays associated with being away from one's desk for meetings, coffee, lunch, events, seminars, errands, flirting with the cute receptionist downstairs, etc., performing work unrelated to reading email, in addition to the time it takes to compose replies to received messages. How often do you manage to get 3 or more back-and-forth cycles on an email thread with someone in one day? Yes, it happens, but probably not that often for most correspondence. It was readily possible in London over 100 years ago!

--

Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
Re:Not the first, won't be the last by SeaFox · 2011-05-13 09:40 · Score: 1

Wouldn't nonsecure -> secure give viruses an avenue of entry?
Re:Not the first, won't be the last by steelfood · 2011-05-13 10:10 · Score: 1

The real advantage of e-mail (and any other form of electronic document) is the ease of duplication, the ease of storage, and the ease of searching and referencing later on. Most people have come to realize this only very recently.
The fastest form of communication is by physically speaking directly to the other person. It's also the most inconvenient, as it requires both parties to be available at the same time. Written communication trades speed for convenience.

--
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Re:Not the first, won't be the last by EastCoastSurfer · 2011-05-16 07:18 · Score: 1

They would and users were expected to virus scan before moving files. Since the networks are separate though a virus would not lead to information leaving the network.

Sneakernet? by celticryan · 2011-05-13 03:01 · Score: 1

Now, I may not be all in on the IT/Security lingo, but this seems to be over selling it a bit. Or at least giving it a much cooler name than it really is.

All he was doing was saving a text file and then having someone else email it from an internet cafe? I think a 10 year old could come up with this simple scheme. But I guess it was simple and effective.

Re:Sneakernet? by x6060 · 2011-05-13 03:04 · Score: 5, Informative

The term sneakernet harkens back to the early days of computing where the only way to get information was to put it on a disk and walk it over to another computer and load it there. Thus a network using your sneakers (your shoes) as the transportation method. So this would be partially true for this instance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakernet
Re:Sneakernet? by celticryan · 2011-05-13 03:07 · Score: 1

I figured it was a made up name, so I didn't bother to wiki it. Thanks for the info. It still sounds more cool than it really is.
Re:Sneakernet? by x6060 · 2011-05-13 03:11 · Score: 1

No worries, It does sound much cooler than just saying "I copied some crap to a thumb drive and went somewhere else with it."
Re:Sneakernet? by gstoddart · 2011-05-13 03:21 · Score: 1

I figured it was a made up name, so I didn't bother to wiki it. Thanks for the info. It still sounds more cool than it really is.
Oh, you so get geek demerit points ... the term sneakernet is old ... like maybe the 70s.
Essentially, it is the same as any other packet switching network ... like carreir pigeons. :-P

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Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Re:Sneakernet? by LordStormes · 2011-05-13 03:40 · Score: 1

Camelnet? Bombed-out Yugo-net? Predator-net?
Re:Sneakernet? by mcmonkey · 2011-05-13 03:53 · Score: 1

I figured it was a made up name, so I didn't bother to wiki it. Thanks for the info. It still sounds more cool than it really is.

As it is with most things geek-related.
Re:Sneakernet? by oobayly · 2011-05-13 04:00 · Score: 1

AC because you wear socks too?
Re:Sneakernet? by MozeeToby · 2011-05-13 04:06 · Score: 1

Sneakernets are actually pretty cool, never under estimate the bandwidth of a truck full of hard drives. I mean sure, the latency is horrible, but 1000 2 Tbyte hard drives at 60 mph will achieve ludicrous transfer rates even driving halfway across the continent.
Re:Sneakernet? by Darinbob · 2011-05-13 07:57 · Score: 1

That's how I did home internet for ages. I always had fast access at work, so why pay money at home for something dreadfully slow? I'd use a free dialup once a year to download turbotax updates but that was about it. So I'd download some big game updates at work, stick them on a floppy or zip disk, and take them home.
Actually, that's still how I downloaded Windows 7 release candidate. Why spend a several evenings downloading at home when a couple hours in the evening at work does the trick?
Re:Sneakernet? by Tetsujin · 2011-05-13 09:30 · Score: 1

Sneakernets are actually pretty cool, never under estimate the bandwidth of a truck full of hard drives.
Do trucks wear sneakers?

--
Bow-ties are cool.
Re:Sneakernet? by Samantha+Wright · 2011-05-13 09:37 · Score: 1

No, but according to ESR, station wagons and 747s do. Don't worry, young pedant; we all go through this phase.

--
Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!

PGP by tm2b · 2011-05-13 03:04 · Score: 1

All I can say is that I am glad he wasn't sophisticated enough to use PGP with a strong passphrase.

--
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny

Re:PGP by tm2b · 2011-05-13 03:13 · Score: 1

I should add - or if he did, his passphrase must have been on a post-it next to his computer.

--
"It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
Re:PGP by Fnkmaster · 2011-05-13 03:48 · Score: 1

Something tells me when they heard that RSA encryption was named after Rivest, Shamir and Adleman they would think it was part of a Jewish conspiracy.
Re:PGP by timeOday · 2011-05-13 04:14 · Score: 1

I hope actionable information will come out of this, but so far the only reports have been more "death to American" evangelism. Why encrypt that? The New Scientist article says they got email addresses, but that operatives change them constantly. And you can bet they'll be changing them now.

Such an intricate plan... by pushing-robot · 2011-05-13 03:05 · Score: 5, Funny

"Hey, are you headed to the Internet cafe? Could you send this for me? I'd love to go myself, but you know, the $25000000 bounty..."

"You ALWAYS use that excuse! 'I'd love to go to the grocery store, but my bounty...I'd love to go to the laundromat, but my bounty...'"

"Oh, and could you print out the latest Digg articles?"

"...fuck it, I'm calling the Americans."

--
How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?

He wasn't by meglon · 2011-05-13 03:07 · Score: 1

.... trying to be covert on his emails, he was just THAT tired of spam.

--
Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's

Re:once one byte of fauxking unfacts is assimilate by Jaysyn · 2011-05-13 03:13 · Score: 1

Gotta love schizophrenics.

--
There is a war going on for your mind.

yet he did not encrypt? by BigGerman · 2011-05-13 03:18 · Score: 1

courier could have been pasting just PGP armoured blobs. Or maybe he did encrypt buy his password was "infidel".

I'm a privacy advocate, but... by gosand · 2011-05-13 03:24 · Score: 1

I can certainly see why there would be the need to disclose personal information about some of the recipients/senders of these email exchanges.
Of course, knowing that Bin Laden is no dummy, you have to wonder if any of them are faked. You know he had plenty of time to plan all kinds of things out.. so why not fake a few of them to stick it to his enemies after he's gone? He had to know that he'd eventually be caught and misinformation can be just as powerful as information.

--

My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

Fantastic. by straponego · 2011-05-13 03:28 · Score: 1

Now the TSA will demand to inspect, copy, or seize removable media crossing such vulnerable public infrastructure as airports, train and bus stations, and sidewalks. Schumer and Lieberman will introduce legislation to require 3G transmitters in all thumb drives.

This isn't *that* great by brit74 · 2011-05-13 03:34 · Score: 2

> "thwarted the US government's best eavesdroppers despite having no Internet access in his hideout."

So, here's my question: by having an intermediary go to the internet cafe, Bin Laden could avoid being seen. However, how does this avoid eavesdropping? It seems to me that if they ever find one of Bin Laden's emails (by sniffing packets or by capturing one of his email targets and tracing back his email to the original IP address), then you could get back to the original internet cafe. Depending on the number of internet cafes in the area, you could start monitoring traffic and figure out which guy was sending them. Then, you could follow the guy to see where he went, which would lead you to Bin Laden. Also, if you infect the computers in the local internet cafes with a keylogger, you could get into Bin Laden's email accounts. By using the intermediary, Bin Laden only added a step or two to the whole procedure and avoided being seen in an internet cafe himself. It wasn't some sort of foolproof method for sending emails.

Re:This isn't *that* great by JSBiff · 2011-05-13 04:16 · Score: 1
2. We're talking about Pakistan here. There is CIA presence in Pakistan, of course, as recent international diplomatic crises have demonstrated, but I think the CIA might be somewhat limited in their ability to operate in Pakistan
4. Instaling keyloggers on EVERY machine? That would have to imply you're logging EVERYONE's passwords *before* emails are sent, because you can't know that an Osama email has just been sent until it's been sent. I definitely don't think the CIA has that kind of power/reach in Pakistan, and that would be a major breech of basic human rights.
5. How long does it take to hit a send button, pop the thumb drive out of the PC and hit the road? I seriously doubt these guys ever really visited the same Internet cafe twice (assuming Osama had several trusted couriers, you could send different people to the same cafe on different occasions, just don't send the same guy to the same place twice.
6. How many Internet Cafes are there in Pakistan? I'd guess many - thousands, perhaps? You can't easily keep all of them under human surveillance all the time. You might be able to have cameras in all of them, except I don't think most Pakistani cafe owners are going to say, "Oh - the U.S. CIA wants to put in cameras in my Pakistani cafe to spy on my customers? No problem, I'm sure they won't mind. . ."
7. I'm not a foreign affairs expert, but I do get the idea, watching the news, that while Pakistan is nominally an ally of the U.S., that there is a significant but powerful minority in the government who may have been working, over the last few years, against the interests of Pakistani democracy and the U.S. - we're talking about a nation where pro-democracy leaders pretty routinely get assassinated, who's Intelligence Service, the ISI, has historically (and quite probably, currently) has actual links to terrorist organizations - basically sponsors them.
Re:This isn't *that* great by mjwalshe · 2011-05-13 06:16 · Score: 1

tap the outgoing cables
Re:This isn't *that* great by brit74 · 2011-05-13 06:49 · Score: 1

> "How long does it take to hit a send button, pop the thumb drive out of the PC and hit the road?"
Quite a while considering that Bin Laden was likely responding to multiple emails at the same time.

> "I seriously doubt these guys ever really visited the same Internet cafe twice"
I'm pretty sure there were only a limited number of internet cafes within five miles. Considering that Bin Laden was doing this for years, I doubt his courier was making long trips to distant internet cafes to avoid revisiting the same one.

> "assuming Osama had several trusted couriers, you could send different people to the same cafe on different occasions, just don't send the same guy to the same place twice."
And that requires giving out Bin Laden's password information to more people and trusting more people, which makes the option less attractive.

> "How many Internet Cafes are there in Pakistan? I'd guess many - thousands, perhaps?"
That's the wrong question. Obviously, his courier wasn't traveling 1000+ miles to reach every internet cafe in Pakistan. (Bin Laden was a thousand miles from Karachi so why are we including every internet cafe in Pakistan as potential dropoff points?) I'd bet money that the internet cafe used by his courier was rarely more than 20 miles from Bin Laden for 90% of the emails sent. Yeah, if you want to maintain secrecy for a few emails, you might travel a long distance, but it gets to be a pain of you're doing this for years. I'd bet laziness would eventually take over and you'd stay within a fairly confined area for sending emails.
Re:This isn't *that* great by brit74 · 2011-05-13 06:55 · Score: 1

> "Instaling keyloggers on EVERY machine?"
Oh, please. That wouldn't be hard, especially if you could write a virus that would propagate the keylogger to every machine in the local network.

> "That would have to imply you're logging EVERYONE's passwords *before* emails are sent, because you can't know that an Osama email has just been sent until it's been sent. I definitely don't think the CIA has that kind of power/reach in Pakistan, and that would be a major breech of basic human rights."
Yeah, like the CIA is going to be concerned about putting keyloggers on machines to catch Bin Laden because they'd be afraid of breaching basic human rights. Are you familiar with Carnivore http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(software) ?

Glad to see they are not technologically savvy... by Lumpy · 2011-05-13 03:37 · Score: 1

The same could be done if you got a massive botnet out there. send your encrypted payload, it bounces around the world for a while before getting sent. also have random hacked email servers used as incoming points...

"bin.laden@sales.cisco.com" would be used this week, "deathtoamerica@whitehouse.com" for next week, etc......

there are a lot of ways to stay ahead of the feds while being online. The courier setup is a nice old skool setup.. have level 1 couriers hand off to level2, who hands off to level 3 who does the email send and retrieve, and then hands off to courier level 4 who hands to a different level 3 who get's it to level 2., etc.... but people can be followed and tracked because they are not random. you CAN randomize internet traffic if you set up a good botnet and a set of lightly hacked servers.

You can easily hack a server and put something in there that is NOT causing problems but acts as a relay for a S2S comms channel to hand off communication in a round robin or even random way. and if it's small messages like email it could go un-noticed on a server for years.

Kind of like old school hacker tricks we used to use in the 80's and 90's. back to back modems on a timer in office buildings as a data relay point to hide your location. Call into ABC insurance fax line 1 after 2am and the modem answers, send the ATDT command to connect out Zimmer Imports voice line to the next hop... I had some that went undetected for a very long time. In fact I'll bet there are a couple that I personally placed that are still there but inactive because of the phone lines being disconnected..

--
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.

It's strange to use an internet cafe by Dr.+Spork · 2011-05-13 03:49 · Score: 1

It would be a lot easier to wardrive around and log into open wireless access points, or hack into weakly secured ones. Internet cafes in Pakistan could easily have CIA cameras, or at minimum witnesses who could identify you in a photo lineup. I'm pretty sure that the CIA is working with Microsoft to take a closer look at low-usage or short-lived Hotmail accounts opened from Pakistani, Afghani and Yemeni internet cafe IP addresses. That wouldn't even be such a hard thing to do.

Re:It's strange to use an internet cafe by hibiki_r · 2011-05-13 03:55 · Score: 1

The CIA has a nice budget, but not THAT good a budget: Something that big and that overt is not only expensive, but it'd easily leak.
Re:It's strange to use an internet cafe by HazMathew · 2011-05-13 04:03 · Score: 1

It's easier to get a car and a laptop and then proceed to drive around Pakistan looking for open wireless networks than to walk into an internet cafe in disguise, pay in cash and plug in a thumb drive???
Re:It's strange to use an internet cafe by LunaticTippy · 2011-05-13 04:12 · Score: 2

The population of Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Yemen total about the same as the USA. There are literally hundreds of thousands of internet cafes. I'm sure the CIA is trying, and they did find Osama, but it is a huge difficult task.

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Man, you really need that seminar!
Re:It's strange to use an internet cafe by cdrguru · 2011-05-13 09:08 · Score: 1

Pakistan has about 170 million people.
Afganistan has about 30 million people
Yemen has less than 25 million people.
I see around 215 million people total with over 300 million in the US. OK, so those three countries together have 2/3rds the population of the US. Pakistan isn't that big, so it must be really, really crowded there.
Assuming a human needs a 2.5 foot square to stand on, I was in an airport yesterday where we were approaching running out of 2.5 foot squares. Amazing what a little thunderstorm does to Southwest Airlines.
Re:It's strange to use an internet cafe by LunaticTippy · 2011-05-16 02:43 · Score: 1

You made me curious and I found a list

It is amazing to me that Pakistan has a lower population density than a lot of countries like Germany. It is much higher density than the US as you surmised.

It is amazing how close any busy place is to utter dysfunction, even without mass panic making things even worse. I can only imagine what a real disaster would be like.

--
Man, you really need that seminar!

Re:All this OBL bullshit by jhoegl · 2011-05-13 04:03 · Score: 1

Fox news, is that you?

ajax.googleapis.com/ajax/services/search by operator_error · 2011-05-13 04:05 · Score: 1

{"responseData": null, "responseDetails": "Don't be evil.", "responseStatus": 406}

Re:Microsoft Word by partyguerrilla · 2011-05-13 04:06 · Score: 1

How does this matter at all? You GNUkids seriously need to shut the fuck up from time to time.

Re:Glad to see they are not technologically savvy. by SomePgmr · 2011-05-13 04:07 · Score: 1

You can easily hack a server and put something in there that is NOT causing problems but acts as a relay for a S2S comms channel to hand off communication in a round robin or even random way. and if it's small messages like email it could go un-noticed on a server for years.

His method worked for 10 years with none of that work. You have to remember that Bin Laden is not an uber l33t haxxor or anything. The botnet method you describe would involve the inclusion of people unlike the sort he'd normally trust anyways, probably a money trail, intermediaries, etc. All weaknesses. And it's not like they never find people who create and manage botnets as it is. Imagine how fast we'd infiltrate each botnet and catch every operator if they were, "Enemy of the World #1".

Don't knock it by PPH · 2011-05-13 04:07 · Score: 1

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sneakernet:

The theoretical capacity of a Boeing 747 filled with Blu-Ray discs is 595,520,000 Gigabits, resulting in a 37,000 Gbit/s flight from New York to Los Angeles.

--
Have gnu, will travel.

I don't believe a single word of this by joh · 2011-05-13 04:11 · Score: 2

Why? Let's check possible scenarios:

1) They have indeed found loads of data, disks, CDs and DVDs, hundreds of thumb drives and so on. They can now do one of two things:
a) Go through that data and come up with press releases every few days to keep the media interested in this. The news will spread everywhere. Every terrorist who even suspects his name, e-mail adress or similar among this data will now immediately try to cover his tracks, abandon accounts, change his location and generally get away. Rather silly to warn them, isn't it?
b) Keep silent, don't tell anyone about what they've found and try to track down whoever they can find with this silently. That would be clever.

2) They haven't found anything to speak of. Now they can again one of two things:
a) Tell the media and anyone interested they haven't found anything. Terrorists may believe this or not, but they won't be in any hurry to get away. Silly.
b) Despite finding nothing, come up with a media campaign telling all the world they have found a "mother lode" of data and make sure to refresh this lie again and again with made-up stories. The terrorists will now change names, delete accounts, change location, cut communication channels, build new ones, etc. This not only disrupts their organizations, it may also create a certain buzz which makes it easier to catch them. Again, clever idea.

So, what do you think: Have they found a "mother lode of data" or not? I don't think so. Because if they did, they wouldn't tell all the world about that. They would silently analyze that data and act on it. What we're seeing here is a carefully orchestrated campaign as a second choice because they didn't find anything useful.

Re:I don't believe a single word of this by leehwtsohg · 2011-05-13 04:21 · Score: 1

Because if they killed Bin Laden and kept quiet, terrorists all over the world would sleep well knowing that Bin Laden's data is safe.
Re:I don't believe a single word of this by Overzeetop · 2011-05-13 04:31 · Score: 1

Hardly. Anyone willing to strap on a vest of C4, or snug the straps on someone else's vest, is already wearing a tinfoil hat. The moment the new broke every AQ member who even thought they might be linked to the data in OBL's possession was abandoning/poisoning accounts and moving their data.

--
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Re:I don't believe a single word of this by joh · 2011-05-13 04:32 · Score: 1

I guess there're lots of terrorists out there who have no better idea what amounts of data Bin Laden stored in his hiding place than you or me. Telling all the world about thousands of messages found before actually trying to hunt down whoever you can find with this would be totally idiotic if true. This makes sense only if it actually isn't true, so you have nothing to lose and can at least disrupt and panic the guys.
Re:I don't believe a single word of this by joh · 2011-05-13 04:42 · Score: 1

Anyone willing to strap on a vest of C4, or snug the straps on someone else's vest, is already wearing a tinfoil hat.

And at the same time the top terrorist himself isn't clever enough to store this sensible data in a cabinet with a pound of thermite in case he gets raided? Or to use a thumb drive only once and then destroy it?
I think it's in no way above the DoD to have a second-choice strategy in case they don't find anything useful. In fact this is the thing I would do in such a case. The only bad thing about this is that WE are being lied to also. The fog of war, indeed. The first victim of any war is the truth, as they say.
Re:I don't believe a single word of this by bckrispi · 2011-05-13 04:57 · Score: 1

And at the same time the top terrorist himself isn't clever enough to store this sensible data in a cabinet with a pound of thermite in case he gets raided? Or to use a thumb drive only once and then destroy it?
It happens... often. Just look at a former "World's Most Wanted". Hitler may have been a political savant, and an expert in personal security - but as a Military Strategist, he was an utter buffoon. It appears that Bin Laden was so secure in the idea that he'd never get caught, that he didn't have any real contingencies planned for the day that someone came knocking.

--
Xenon, where's my money? -Borno
Re:I don't believe a single word of this by joh · 2011-05-13 05:43 · Score: 1

It appears that Bin Laden was so secure in the idea that he'd never get caught, that he didn't have any real contingencies planned for the day that someone came knocking.
But still had an AK47 and a pistol in arm's reach, yeah.
Re:I don't believe a single word of this by cdrguru · 2011-05-13 09:21 · Score: 1

In that part of the world you are better off leaving your dick at home rather than your AK47.
It is a statement about your manhood.
Re:I don't believe a single word of this by steelfood · 2011-05-13 10:16 · Score: 1

Agreed. Changing identities and locations is typically a really risky thing. The process will raise red flags if not done right, and there's no guarantees the new identity and location is secure (trust is acquired over time, and security is all about trust). Forcing terrorists to do so by claiming all their existing identities and locations have been compromised would be brilliant. It would also put a nice dent in their wallets, and make them worry about things other than the next act of terror.
The best part is, the government might actually have some useful information, and they'll be using it to capture the terrorists who hole up thinking this must be what actually happened. A few more high-level incidents would make even more of them panic.
It's win-win.

--
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."

Re:once one byte of fauxking unfacts is assimilate by gtall · 2011-05-13 04:14 · Score: 1

Schizophrenic? I thought it was bot. Maybe the gp was a schizophrenic bot.

Re:All this OBL bullshit by countertrolling · 2011-05-13 04:25 · Score: 1

Why would you say that? They're standing tall right along with the rest of the faithful.. They are the seeders.. They deliver the kielbasa

--
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone

Re:All this OBL bullshit by Jeremiah+Cornelius · 2011-05-13 04:33 · Score: 1, Interesting

What is the purpose of the Satellite Dish?
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/pb-110502-osama-compound-5.photoblog900.jpg

Yeah. No Internet. No Phone. No TV.

No truth in the official story.

--
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."

Re:All this OBL bullshit by countertrolling · 2011-05-13 04:50 · Score: 1

What is the purpose of the Satellite Dish?

Looks like an old c-band to me.. Probably to catch the wild feeds of 'Married with Children'... You get a whole week's worth at once without the commercials.. Thank goodness we got 'im before he could blow up Bundy Fountain.

--
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone

safe under the watchful eye by doperative · 2011-05-13 05:12 · Score: 1

"Osama bin Laden was a prolific writer who put together a painstaking email system that thwarted the US government's best eavesdroppers despite having no Internet access in his hideout" ..

Then why does the Gov need to spy on us all in order to protect us from the terrorists ?

New US bill would require ISPs to retain user info to aid police

Start-up: Flash Drives with Ben Laden's photo by unil_1005 · 2011-05-13 05:18 · Score: 1

For deep security use the drives the professionals use!

Sneaker net in class by Phizital1ty · 2011-05-13 05:37 · Score: 1

Im a young slashdotter, >Government teacher is explaining this story in class >Talks about thumbdrives being walked out of his palace >Instinctively yell out SNEAKER NET!! with a big smile >Whole class looks at me >Dead silence... >Come to slashdot and read the sneaker net headline >*face palm*

Re:not news? by PPH · 2011-05-13 05:44 · Score: 1

news recycled days later from the regular press

Our guy carrying the thumb drive was late. Sorry.

--
Have gnu, will travel.

Re:Slashdot story by chinakow · 2011-05-13 06:11 · Score: 1

Slashdot has always run stories from other sources, I think the book reviews where the first original content that was posted here. Go back and look at old stories, they are third/fourth-hand knowledge almost every time.

Re:All this OBL bullshit by countertrolling · 2011-05-13 06:39 · Score: 1

Keep it coming baby! Prisoner #416 has always been disruptive and deserves everything he gets!

This little experiment has confirmed the big experiment, and you all are living proof. I really do thank you (mods) for your input. Very very enlightening..

--
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone

Courier Expiration Policy? by Gefion · 2011-05-13 07:12 · Score: 1

Akin to Password expiration policies, seems like the weakness in Osama's Sneakernet was an overlong cached crednetial (aka courier) that was finally compromised. Would he have had better or worse security if he would have rotated couriers every 90 days with multi-factor authentication (knocks, speech, etc.). Having an old courier (like an old password), seemed a flaw.

Porn without internet? by countertrolling · 2011-05-13 08:09 · Score: 1

Gee fellas, I was wondering when you would get around to 'discovering' that... Waddya find? some TSA guy patting down the kid?

--
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone

Re:All this OBL bullshit by brit74 · 2011-05-13 08:16 · Score: 2

To be fair, it's not clear from the picture that the dish was functional. Who knows what kind of condition the system was in. The house was likely inhabited before Bin Laden was there, and maybe they had used it previously.

Also, the angle of the dish is very low. Satellite dishes point at satellites in geosynchronous orbit, meaning they are organized in a band around the equator. Since Pakistan isn't that far from the equator, it would look at satellites that were more or less overhead. (Yeah, some satellites might appear slightly over the horizon to the east and west.) I just think the fact that the dish is pointed at something like 10 degrees above the horizon might suggest that it's not actually functional.

Re:All this OBL bullshit by Lundse · 2011-05-13 08:57 · Score: 1

What is the purpose of the Satellite Dish?

As part of the worldwide conspiracy that includes Obama, the seal team that faked the mission and numerous government bureaucrats who are luckily unable to send an email to wikileaks, let me obfuscate and lie by suggesting this:

If you are hiding for your life and do not want your mansion to stick out, would you invest in a satellite dish, even if you are not going to use it, for fear of surveillance? Maybe even go through the trouble of installling it?

--
IAIFARSIJDPOOTV - I Am In Fact A Reality Star; I Just Don't Play One On TV

Of course they got data by Animats · 2011-05-13 08:58 · Score: 1

Some of bin Laden's home videos have already been released. So clearly the US has a collection of his recorded data. Exactly what was captured isn't being disclosed yet, reasonably enough.

All the people bin Laden communicated with directly are probably trying to find places to hide. They would have done that regardless of what stories came out after bin Laden was killed.

There have been reprisals from bin Laden's supporters in the Taliban. They just attacked a group of Pakistani army trainees, killing 80. Dumb move. The result will probably be more Pakistani cooperation with the US.

And nobody ever noticed anything suspicious? by DrBoumBoum · 2011-05-13 08:58 · Score: 1

save it using a thumb-sized flash drive that he passed to a trusted courier

And how were those dozens of couriers coming in and out of his hideout during a ten-or-so year span not detected by the local population/police exactly? Doesn't this mean that he was positively harbored, hidden and protected by the whole local population? Didn't the US and the whole West bomb and invade the shit out of Afghanistan exactly because they were providing "safe harbor to terrorists"? So what are we waiting for exactly?

Oh wait a minute... Pakistan just like North Korea does have nuclear weapons. My bad. Nobody's gonna fuck with them. Iran must be horribly jealous.

Re:And nobody ever noticed anything suspicious? by geek2k5 · 2011-05-13 11:03 · Score: 1

If the couriers have a cover reason for going to the compound, they could do so fairly frequently and not raise any flags. Covers could include food delivery, package delivery and even what appears to be friends, family and business associates. Beggars would also be a possible cover. Appearing to be a family member who lives in the compound can also be a cover, one that would allow the person to go in and out of the compound frequently. You could also have couriers that never enter the hideout but, instead, have a drop point. It does sound like the number of couriers was limited though. Though in five or so years, a courier doing daily runs at one message a day could carry eighteen hundred messages. If the courier carried six or more messages a day, you are getting into the ten thousand message range.
Re:And nobody ever noticed anything suspicious? by DrBoumBoum · 2011-05-13 13:45 · Score: 1

Yes but you're thinking western-style, Los Angeles anonymity here. He was living in a cosy small town full of middle-class military personel in a third-world country, so picture something like a small town in the Midwest: everybody knows it five minutes after you drop a fart. Frankly I don't buy it, to me it's clear he has been knowingly protected all this time, up to a point where he was possibly becoming to much of a drag and was given to the US. Although obviously this is pure speculation.

Re:What is up with all this info? by Tetsujin · 2011-05-13 09:36 · Score: 1

Yeah, it's interesting.

But whoever thinks it is great to just leak all this hard won intel ... should be keel hauled.

What valuable intel do you think was leaked? The fact that they raided Bin Laden's compound and killed him is already widely known. Do you think people wouldn't figure out that there may have been some sensitive information there, too?

--
Bow-ties are cool.

wait for wikileaks or openleaks by bussdriver · 2011-05-13 09:41 · Score: 1

Hopefully we will have a leak system working when somebody finally grows a spine and leaks the documents after they age a little bit.... We won't be alive when they finally release this info otherwise.

--
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news

Re:All this OBL bullshit by Jeremiah+Cornelius · 2011-05-13 09:55 · Score: 1

You're right! And let's continue to not draw attention by moving into a community that houses the training facility for Pakistan intelligence and has controlled movement on the streets.

--
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."

Re:All this OBL bullshit by Lundse · 2011-05-13 10:10 · Score: 1

Yeah. That would only make sense if Pakistan was less than 100% behind this whole get-Bin-Laden-thing they totally promised everyone they totally were.

--
IAIFARSIJDPOOTV - I Am In Fact A Reality Star; I Just Don't Play One On TV

Data loss is probably assumed by geek2k5 · 2011-05-13 10:46 · Score: 1

Odds are that many of Bin Laden's contacts would assume that their identities are compromised whether there was a single thumb drive involved or an entire building of thumb drives, external hard drives and computers. Stating that a large amount of data was found might scare away those who are on the fringe of the organization.

Of course a "mother lode of data" could simply be a few spread sheets of names and locations. I recall reading that more information was collected during this raid than ten years of more conventional information collecting. That wouldn't take much given how long it took to find him.

Pentagon releases bin Laden tapes by David+Gerard · 2011-05-13 11:04 · Score: 1

The Pentagon has released the home videos of Osama bin Laden, “a collection to horrify and stultify the hardest heart.”

The tapes include bin Laden at Alton Towers with his children in the late 1990s, dealing with several screaming toddlers, shouting that if they did not behave they would be going home right now and there would be no ice cream for anyone and swearing that “this place and all such manifestations of Western decadence shall be scoured from the face of the earth.”

Others include shaky-cam video of bin Laden and family in front of the Twin Towers in New York, in which video he clips one of the kids around the ear for being a brat and swears a similar oath of destruction, and a tediously-narrated clip of one of the children using the potty for the first time.

Middle-aged fathers the world around viewed the clips in tears and came to a new understanding, deep within their hearts, of the forces driving radical jihadism.

The Pentagon hopes to study the films for security information. “Another video shows him watching the tape of the child on the potty,” says a spokesman. “From his face, we suspect the next Al-Qaeda target would have been the Sony factory in Japan.”

A spokesman for Alton Towers noted that, as Satanically cursed ground upon which no joy could grow and which was invulnerable to the slights and arrows of mere pathetic mortals, the amusement park would remain open and operational for this summer and all summers for the foreseeable future. “Muwaaaahahahaha,” he added.

--
http://rocknerd.co.uk

Re:All this OBL bullshit by Jeremiah+Cornelius · 2011-05-13 11:08 · Score: 1

ISI are stooges of the usual International "intelligence" networks. Calling Porter Goss!

--
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."

I'm not making a complaint by countertrolling · 2011-05-13 11:12 · Score: 1

How could the experiment work if I can't see the results? Did you read the links?

Oh, and thanks for your contribution!

--
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone

Ockham's Razor by ewe2 · 2011-05-13 17:41 · Score: 1

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Much more likely that they're so enthralled by their discovery that they can't help boasting.

--
insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer

like the body or the subject!) by samerhadid · 2011-05-14 09:05 · Score: 1

Recently went closed source, but is still essentially free. Works with a client-server framework. Nessus is the world’s most popular vulnerability scanner used in over 75,000 organizations world-wide. Many of the world’s largest organizations are realizing significant cost savings by using Nessus to audit business-critical enterprise devices and applications.

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Bin Laden's Sneakernet Email System

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