Or the fact that we are still coming off of an Ice Age that lasted for more than 100,000 years, and ended less than 10,000 years ago (Or the little Ice Age that ended in 1850). Several models predict that the average temperature at the END of the last Ice Age was 15-20C lower than today.
Is global warming happening? Yes. Is the human race a contributing factor? Probably to some degree. Is the human race the only cause? No.
Oh I totally understand. My point was more that those that support Gun Control for the purpose of saving lives tend to ignore the fact that the homicide rate has been falling for 20+ years.
People would also consider the statistics you cite as Racist. Though they are true. I would take a step back and just point out that some 90-95% of gun violence are gang related or drug related.
Here is an interesting statistic, the murder rate has been falling since the late 80's/early 90's and is roughly half of what it was (10.2 to 4.7). It seems like if the goal is to save lives, that this would be the number people would use instead of specifying HOW they were murdered.
That only accounts for Legally obtained fully automatic weapons. What about Illegally obtained fully automatic weapons. Besides the fact that you completely ignore the nuances of the NFA and FOPA act of 1986 is staggering. It is COMPLETELY legal to own fully automatic weapons, however those willing to pay the price and go through the hassle tend to not be criminals. Instead they pay their brother vinny 20$ to illegally convert it for them.
Damn these people for wanting to keep their company competitive and for wanting to provide jobs for people who would otherwise not have them!!! *Shakes Fist*
Based on my experiences on how most people that cant explain something simply are usually not as well versed on subjects as they think. And my 4 years in local city government. The best laws I have seen are concise, if you make them too big you risk scope creep and governmental waste. Complexity does NOT mean good or correct.
There is so much ambiguity in current law that the average person commits 3 felonies a day. (Just good "felonies per day")
As for your ad hominem attacks, no real response is needed. Hope you have a wonderful day.
Honestly, If you cant write a law in 2 pages, you probably cant effectively legislate the issue with laws anyway. Also, even with legalese there are huge loopholes and prosecutors and judges already interpret laws however they want.
Have fun! And since you cry [Citation Needed] Please verify all of your bullshit statistics about Venezuelan Gun control. The fact is the country and cartels are the biggest threats in that country. Also make sure your statistics are coming from an unbiased and reputable source.
Well, the majority of Firearm related fatalities are suicides. More than 60% in fact, but that isnt what is being debunked.
First of all your assumption that the outcome of those suicides would be different if there were not firearms is spurious at best. But the the report that is typically referenced is the Kellermann report. In the report kellermann only accepted cases of self defense where there was more than 1 aggressor. That means only a few percent of reports were considered matters of self defense. He also included those where the situation was an aggressor knew the firearms owner and attacked him as a "family member, friend or acquaintance" being shot unjustly. And if all of those were note bad enough, it was included that when a Police officer is forced to shoot a criminal in the criminals own house, that they were counted as a "family member, friend or acquaintance" being shot unjustly. It is all around bad statistics that are highly misleading. The biggest take away from his data set is that criminals get shot but sometimes those criminals are "family member, friend or acquaintance".
The issue though with saying that is that you make the assumption that not having access to a firearm would change the ultimate outcome. In Japan nearly all suicides occur by hanging and they have double the normal suicide rate of the US. Does that mean they should implement rope control? The fact is, it wouldn't make a difference whether they use a knife, jump off of a tall building, or use a firearm, the result is that they wanted to end their life, as tragic as that is.
Well the UKs violent crime statistics do show that there are more than 4 times as much violent crime and 3 times as many violent offenders in the UK than in the US. (That's over 2,000 violent crimes per 100,000 citizens as compared to the USs 466 per 100,000) the UKs issues with violent crime are worse than any other EU country. The murder rate is also the highest in the entire EU, with many other countries having far more lax firearms laws. your correlation to "No Firearms" is really invalid, and I'm not even bringing up the Swiss case example.
Japan's social issues resulting in loss of life is more tied to suicide. Japan has a suicide rate of nearly double the US, infact it is so bad that there were over a thousand more suicides in Japan than ALL firearms related deaths in the US despite only have a population 40% the size. (32,845 suicides in japan vs 31,347 firearms related deaths [Total US suicides: 32,559]) so saying japan is devoid of social issues resulting in death is disingenuous. It is different than the issues in the US, but just as bad, if not worse.
Also I would also like ot point out that it is still legal to own firearms in both of these countries though it is much more restricted.
Well actually home invasions have been on the rise in upper class suburban areas for the last decade. Apparently robbing the poor isn't very profitable, so the criminals go where the money is. The fact is that a pretty upper class town in my local area has had 5 home invasions since September and several victims have been killed.
Sadly my neighbor a few years ago was nearly killed in a similar incident. He was stabbed numerous times even after he was tied up, blindfolded, gagged, and beaten numerous times for "not telling them where the valuables were." You are free to keep living in your fairy tale land where bad things don't happen, but please don't remove my means of defense simply because nothing bad has ever happened to you.
I know, I wasn't going to bring that up as the standards and qualifications for the police are abysmal and usually not NEARLY as stringent as civilian standards. (depends on state and locality a lot) But most people don't want to know that or will refuse to believe it. Still, it isn't exactly an uncommon occurrence, and I'd prefer more rather than less.
Yeah, surprisingly to most people, people that are shot and it isnt a direct CNS shot, means they are usually still an effective threat. Now add in stress from the situation, moving targets, moving while shooting, and the possibility of multiple threats, a standard capacity magazine (depending on firearm, that could mean anywhere between 6-40 rounds) doesn't last as long as you may think or may need. Many times the police have shot criminals 10+ times and still not incapacitated them.
Well, not exactly. It protects against many more threats than just criminals with firearms. It protects against anyone that seeks to do substantial physical harm to you or your family regardless of their means (aka baseball bats, lead pipe, brass knuckles, etc.)
As for the last assumption, you are most likely referring to the Kellermann report which stated that a firearm in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member, friend or acquaintance. That report has been debunked many times as it specifically excluded most accounts of self defense and included suicides and even police actions against criminals in the statistics. And of course these are all statistics 30 years out of date, where the murder rate of US citizens has steadily declined to less than half of what it was in 1986. (despite what the media portrays)
Slashdot Mirror
Or the fact that we are still coming off of an Ice Age that lasted for more than 100,000 years, and ended less than 10,000 years ago (Or the little Ice Age that ended in 1850). Several models predict that the average temperature at the END of the last Ice Age was 15-20C lower than today.
Is global warming happening? Yes. Is the human race a contributing factor? Probably to some degree. Is the human race the only cause? No.
Oh I totally understand. My point was more that those that support Gun Control for the purpose of saving lives tend to ignore the fact that the homicide rate has been falling for 20+ years.
People would also consider the statistics you cite as Racist. Though they are true. I would take a step back and just point out that some 90-95% of gun violence are gang related or drug related.
Here is an interesting statistic, the murder rate has been falling since the late 80's/early 90's and is roughly half of what it was (10.2 to 4.7). It seems like if the goal is to save lives, that this would be the number people would use instead of specifying HOW they were murdered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate_by_decade
But yet Illegal fully automatic weapons are still used in crime, though it is very rare, but then again just a rifle being used in crime is very rare.
It was more for illustrative purposes, but you are correct. a dremel and a jig saw blade can be made into a Lightening link.
I was going to come here to post exactly those survey findings.
That only accounts for Legally obtained fully automatic weapons. What about Illegally obtained fully automatic weapons. Besides the fact that you completely ignore the nuances of the NFA and FOPA act of 1986 is staggering. It is COMPLETELY legal to own fully automatic weapons, however those willing to pay the price and go through the hassle tend to not be criminals. Instead they pay their brother vinny 20$ to illegally convert it for them.
No one needs a gun to kill you.
Damn these people for wanting to keep their company competitive and for wanting to provide jobs for people who would otherwise not have them!!! *Shakes Fist*
Based on my experiences on how most people that cant explain something simply are usually not as well versed on subjects as they think. And my 4 years in local city government. The best laws I have seen are concise, if you make them too big you risk scope creep and governmental waste. Complexity does NOT mean good or correct.
There is so much ambiguity in current law that the average person commits 3 felonies a day. (Just good "felonies per day")
As for your ad hominem attacks, no real response is needed. Hope you have a wonderful day.
Honestly, If you cant write a law in 2 pages, you probably cant effectively legislate the issue with laws anyway. Also, even with legalese there are huge loopholes and prosecutors and judges already interpret laws however they want.
Ah yes Detroit. The 3rd world city in the 1st world country.
Ring ring ring ring ring ring ring. (Hint both are violent crime)
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/crime-in-england-and-wales-2010-to-2011
http://www.justice.govt.nz/pubs/reports/2002/intl-comparisons-crime/section-12.html#Table%20A3
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/violent-crime/violent-crime
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Japan
Have fun! And since you cry [Citation Needed] Please verify all of your bullshit statistics about Venezuelan Gun control. The fact is the country and cartels are the biggest threats in that country. Also make sure your statistics are coming from an unbiased and reputable source.
Well, the majority of Firearm related fatalities are suicides. More than 60% in fact, but that isnt what is being debunked.
First of all your assumption that the outcome of those suicides would be different if there were not firearms is spurious at best. But the the report that is typically referenced is the Kellermann report. In the report kellermann only accepted cases of self defense where there was more than 1 aggressor. That means only a few percent of reports were considered matters of self defense. He also included those where the situation was an aggressor knew the firearms owner and attacked him as a "family member, friend or acquaintance" being shot unjustly. And if all of those were note bad enough, it was included that when a Police officer is forced to shoot a criminal in the criminals own house, that they were counted as a "family member, friend or acquaintance" being shot unjustly. It is all around bad statistics that are highly misleading. The biggest take away from his data set is that criminals get shot but sometimes those criminals are "family member, friend or acquaintance".
The issue though with saying that is that you make the assumption that not having access to a firearm would change the ultimate outcome. In Japan nearly all suicides occur by hanging and they have double the normal suicide rate of the US. Does that mean they should implement rope control? The fact is, it wouldn't make a difference whether they use a knife, jump off of a tall building, or use a firearm, the result is that they wanted to end their life, as tragic as that is.
Well the UKs violent crime statistics do show that there are more than 4 times as much violent crime and 3 times as many violent offenders in the UK than in the US. (That's over 2,000 violent crimes per 100,000 citizens as compared to the USs 466 per 100,000) the UKs issues with violent crime are worse than any other EU country. The murder rate is also the highest in the entire EU, with many other countries having far more lax firearms laws. your correlation to "No Firearms" is really invalid, and I'm not even bringing up the Swiss case example.
Japan's social issues resulting in loss of life is more tied to suicide. Japan has a suicide rate of nearly double the US, infact it is so bad that there were over a thousand more suicides in Japan than ALL firearms related deaths in the US despite only have a population 40% the size. (32,845 suicides in japan vs 31,347 firearms related deaths [Total US suicides: 32,559]) so saying japan is devoid of social issues resulting in death is disingenuous. It is different than the issues in the US, but just as bad, if not worse.
Also I would also like ot point out that it is still legal to own firearms in both of these countries though it is much more restricted.
Well actually home invasions have been on the rise in upper class suburban areas for the last decade. Apparently robbing the poor isn't very profitable, so the criminals go where the money is. The fact is that a pretty upper class town in my local area has had 5 home invasions since September and several victims have been killed.
Sadly my neighbor a few years ago was nearly killed in a similar incident. He was stabbed numerous times even after he was tied up, blindfolded, gagged, and beaten numerous times for "not telling them where the valuables were." You are free to keep living in your fairy tale land where bad things don't happen, but please don't remove my means of defense simply because nothing bad has ever happened to you.
http://www.dailyjournal.net/view/story/8d55e96aa3124d178ecefc2f33637580/IN--Home-Invasion-Fears/#.Un0aUPnkvsg
http://www.indianasnewscenter.com/news/local/Double-Shooting-One-Person-Dead-Another-Injured-230483191.html
http://www.wthr.com/story/21649826/police-investigate-homicide-on-indys-northwest-side
http://www.wthr.com/story/18309693/fishers-police-seek-suspect-in-home-invasion-burglary
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB119508694182293480
I know, I wasn't going to bring that up as the standards and qualifications for the police are abysmal and usually not NEARLY as stringent as civilian standards. (depends on state and locality a lot) But most people don't want to know that or will refuse to believe it. Still, it isn't exactly an uncommon occurrence, and I'd prefer more rather than less.
Yeah, surprisingly to most people, people that are shot and it isnt a direct CNS shot, means they are usually still an effective threat. Now add in stress from the situation, moving targets, moving while shooting, and the possibility of multiple threats, a standard capacity magazine (depending on firearm, that could mean anywhere between 6-40 rounds) doesn't last as long as you may think or may need. Many times the police have shot criminals 10+ times and still not incapacitated them.
When seconds matter, the police are minutes away.
Well, not exactly. It protects against many more threats than just criminals with firearms. It protects against anyone that seeks to do substantial physical harm to you or your family regardless of their means (aka baseball bats, lead pipe, brass knuckles, etc.)
As for the last assumption, you are most likely referring to the Kellermann report which stated that a firearm in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a family member, friend or acquaintance. That report has been debunked many times as it specifically excluded most accounts of self defense and included suicides and even police actions against criminals in the statistics. And of course these are all statistics 30 years out of date, where the murder rate of US citizens has steadily declined to less than half of what it was in 1986. (despite what the media portrays)
Whoopsie. Got a little post happy and didn't proofread.
Doesnt matter, I own both Copyrights
I can now copywrite my grocery list? Sweet!