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Linux Desktop Summit Program Announced
jrepin writes with this excerpt from an announcement by KDE:
"The Desktop Summit is a joint conference organized by the GNOME and KDE communities, the two dominant forces behind modern graphical software on free platforms. Over a thousand international participants are expected to attend. The main conference takes place from 6-8 August. The annual membership meetings of GNOME and KDE are scheduled for 9 August, followed by workshops and coding sessions on 10-12 August."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HAL_%28software%29
It took forever to deprecate it. I wonder what "cool thing" will be next.
My problem is Gnome / KDE / UNITY all seem to be obsessed with being progressive and messing up common sense schemes that have worked well for years. IMO they should be jailed in the Museum of Contemporary Art and clubbed to death with hardcover copies of Ulysses.
Gnome 2.0 seems to be the epitome of quality design... the menus are all simple and straight forward, good for getting work done.
In the future, nobody will use computers. We will all use facebook on our mobile smartphones. Nobody will write "documents" and "files": we will tweet our inspirations and dreams to the great cloud of interconnected humynity. So these people are trying to hold us back in the past! They are just like bookburners, or NAZIS, maybe. The future is today!!!!! Hahaha ha ha a I laugh at gnoem.
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This is the year of Linux on the desktop!
This is the Desktop Summit (Akademy/GUADEC) I'm looking forward the most since years.
GNOME has entered a new era with GNOME 3.0 and KDE has a lot going on with Active (KDE's mobile initiative). The news about Qt 5 and a possible KDE Platform 5 is also very interesting.
These higher level software are paired with the arrival and switch to Wayland.
Lot's of stuff happening in the FOSS world to shed legacy technologies that hold the entire stack back.
While not officially announced, I'm hoping the newly announced TermKit http://acko.net/blog/on-termkit will be discussed during the open days. TermKit is new concept to replace the decades old Unix pipes with a modern implementation based on JSON. The Desktop Summit sounds like a perfect place to bring it to Linux and possibly FreeBSD,... as well (the current implementation is written for Mac OS X but it is not bound to it).
After years of maintaining the status quo in the FOSS stack some much needed renovating happens now.
Exciting times!
PS: I'm also glad to see that this Desktop Summit is not a "KDE + GNOME and a bit of support architecture" show. Someone from Enlightenment will also be there and talk about E17 and EFL.
That it'll end up in a literal deathmatch?
KDE4: sucks Gnome3 shell: sucks Unity: sucks KDE3.5: good, but dead Gnome2:good, but dead I guess I'll use XFCE just like in old times, and maybe LXDE or fluxbox
I found something better: http://wiki.pwnoogle.com/Perfect_fvwm_Window-Manager_configuration
what happened to enlightenment, xfce, fvwm, python-plwm and all the others? i hate to mention EvilWM (1000 lines of c), or XMonad (1200 lines of haskell i believe) as it's hard to have any kind of meaningful discussion around 1200 lines of haskell, but, seriously, why weren't all the other window managers more seriously represented? oh wait - there's _one_ talk (an overview) on the EFL classes: https://www.desktopsummit.org/program/sessions/quick-overview-enlightenment-foundation-libraries-and-e17
Oh, for trolling sake. Then write your own desktop environment. I hate XFCE and KDE4, but love gnome-shell, for instance. If you are not happy with the Desktop Summit contents, don't go there, or post here. Why wasting bytes here when you have all the choice you need (including cranking up some code?). These people put a lot of effort into a release, and the summit is a great occasion to sit down and try to understand what was rushed, what worked well, etc.
This is free software. Don't like it? Fork it.
42.
(NOTE: another AC here: just can't bother with the cookies crap needed to login)
Look -- formally you are right. Still I think the "innovators" have some responsibility to tread with some care and try to be inclusive. As just an example, I watch in disgust and fear the firestorm systemd is causing. Granted, nobody loves SystemV, all that rat's nest of scripts with 90 per cent boilerplate and that. Still, replacing that by an intransparent piece of compiled code mechanism and policy all in one big mess: what is that doing to the hackability of the system?
Other examples: NetworkManager, PulseAudio, *Kit (many of those examples are CamelCased -- is this a CoInciDence?). I'd hope innovators in the realm of Free Software would take care of interested users, leaving for them a path into hacking the system, starting by little config options, through some shell scripting into hacking C. This means cherishing simplicity at all levels. The opposite tendency seems to be in fashion nowadays. The "user experience" of the absolute novice is paramount -- sacrificing the simplicity and hackability of the system by the slightly more advanced user (all novice users will reach that stage eventually, remember!).
This reminds me of a pattern often seen in proprietary software, especially that kind of software where the ones to make the business decision of buying the package won't be those who will have to use it: it tends to be shiny and easy to use for fitst-timers, but far from the optimum long-term.
WTF happened to this idea of the 1970ies that giving the user a chance to improve her understanding of the system should be part of what's called ergonomy?
So: "It's open source. Do it yourself if you don't like it. And now go away" is almost always the wrong answer.
They should be clubbed with hardcover copies of The Art of Unix Programming by Eric Raymond -- http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/index.html -- particularly the chapter "Basics of the Unix Philosophy"...
Rule of Modularity: Write simple parts connected by clean interfaces.
Rule of Clarity: Clarity is better than cleverness.
Rule of Composition: Design programs to be connected with other programs.
Rule of Separation: Separate policy from mechanism; separate interfaces from engines.
Rule of Simplicity: Design for simplicity; add complexity only where you must.
Rule of Parsimony: Write a big program only when it is clear by demonstration that nothing else will do.
Rule of Transparency: Design for visibility to make inspection and debugging easier.
Rule of Robustness: Robustness is the child of transparency and simplicity.
Rule of Representation: Fold knowledge into data, so program logic can be stupid and robust.
Rule of Least Surprise: In interface design, always do the least surprising thing.
Rule of Silence: When a program has nothing surprising to say, it should say nothing.
Rule of Repair: Repair what you can — but when you must fail, fail noisily and as soon as possible.
Rule of Economy: Programmer time is expensive; conserve it in preference to machine time.
Rule of Generation: Avoid hand-hacking; write programs to write programs when you can.
Rule of Optimization: Prototype before polishing. Get it working before you optimize it.
Rule of Diversity: Distrust all claims for one true way.
Rule of Extensibility: Design for the future, because it will be here sooner than you think.
GNOME: Stop your "War On Users" by hiding user configurations or ripping them out! /Rant off
KDE: Let up with the eye candy for once! Simple is beautiful.
CANONICAL: Admit Unity is a total failure, ask for our forgiveness and never, ever do it again!
Gnome and KDE keep on REGRESSING, not PROGRESSING. The current teams couldn't be worse
for Linux than if they were paid Micro$oft agents.
Fork one of KDE 3.5 or Gnome2. Or build a plasma profile that emulates KDE 3.5. Or port the Gnome2 shell to GTK3 & friends.
I personally prefer LXDE, but XFCE seems to be very close to GNOME2.
Geology - it's not rocket science; it's rock science
Yeah, do it now.
...(s)he's not insulting you, but rather your drugs ;-D
On a more serious note "replacing the decades old Unix pipes with a modern implementation based on JSON" (I quote you) does indeed sound like some bad-ass marketing talk, sorry to say that.
KDE is already forked, and attempts are being made to make it compile against both Qt3 and Qt4.
http://www.trinitydesktop.org/
Though now with the Rapture, I guess it's time to rename it to Carl Sagan Desktop.
"Don't like it? Fork it."
Can people PLEASE stop with this bullshit "don't like it? Then fix it yourself!" argument? Like it or not, linux is about communities, ideals, and shared tools now, just like your nation is. You might as well be saying "Don't like the new laws? Then start your own country!". In either case, it's disenfranchising, and wrong-headed.
But still sucks.
between what the devs want to do, and what the users want. In a commercial company, this conflict is handled by management weighing in on the side of users/customers. In OSS projects, the devs have free reins to play with new concepts, technologies, paradigms... whether anyone else is interested at all, or not. My take is that Gnome, KDE and Unity have evolved into cool geek research labs. 5-10 years from now, we might be using some ideas that originated there. Right now, most users want and need a simple interface that Just Works and emulates the Windows they know, not some buggy half-finished avant-garde stuff.
The main quality of an OS is to let me use my hardware and apps with minimum fuss.
The Cloud - because you don't care if your apps and data are up in the air.
The biggest problem I see isn't the radical design change of Gnome 3 or Unit, but the lack of customization. We once criticized Windows for being fairly rigid in that matter, but Windows now looks in comparison to these new desktop a tweaker's dream. Someting I thought I would never say.
So, in a way I would have to agree they suck at the moment, but I hope the project leaders will come to their senses and realize people like to be able to customize their desktops to some degree.
"Thbbft!" - Bill the Cat
If it is a nation, start paying taxes and do military service. Then you can have your say.
42.
Is that the "XXX sucks but YYY is great" thread?
KDE3: good, KDE4: great, Gnome3: sucks, Gnome2: sucks, Unity: I don't care
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
Well, at one point the development of a piece of software might change. Should it keep going in a straight line just because you liked it that way?
...just what exactly do they need KDE and UNITY for?
Oh, the beautiful gloss of greality!
Well let's all demand our money back!
Reading through the comments you'd think that people were being forced to use KDE or Gnome, because there isn't anything else, that they had to pay for, it and weren't given the source codes.
have to agree they suck at the moment
KDE4 and Gnome3 have set the Linux desktop back nearly a decade. All of our plans to convert desktops from Windows have been put on hold, indefinitely.
Question is why. Why have these two key window managers not only gotten worse but become worse than any window manager since CDE?
Part of it has t be a lack of design guidelines. It also has to be due to a lack of leadership, designed by committee, lord of the flies and all that. But that can't be all there is. I know this isn't all because a friend of mine is one of the contributors and I know he works for Microsoft on the side. Open source desktops won't be viable, if you ask me, until they've solved these 3 fundamental issues.
Good desktop workspace design has been an issue for quite some time. The Gimp finally got things straightened out. Some still complain about the UI in Blender, but its a million times better than it was (ok, I was being modest: a billion times better), but Gnome was (is) better than Unity, and yet I have Unity. Now to be fair, I have become somewhat accustomed to Unity, and have figured out all the tips and tricks, but I still don't have access to as much at a glance as I did with Gnome. Sure, I can 'get there', and the search tool will bring up apps, but if I have menus with great gobs of stuff, then I can see things that I don't have to remember or type in to find. Work still needs to be done. We don't follow Apple in the back end (indeed, they take from us), but when it comes to the GUI, we all take from them.
Your parent is merely pointing out that KDE and Gnome have both headed down the toilet, and Unity is STARTING OUT in the toilet. This is obvious to anyone. The bloody desktop developers have turned into wankers chasing stupid directions that are NOT user driven, ruining perfectly good products. They could use an injection of reality. They are screwing up big time. Not in terms of technical quality, but in terms of basic direction. A lot of users care about that. The process is broken. If developers don't care what users want, then to hell with them.
It's not up to users to fork software and develop it themselves in a more sane direction. It's up to developers to get a grip on the real world.
"Don't like it? Fork it" when directed at users in a sneering manner is snobbery of the highest order.
You would do well to listen to users, because they are like, well, the users. If developers who see themselves as designers keep screwing up the design, nobody will use it, and if nobody will use it, nobody will want to support development, and the platform will wither. My guess is that, due to the disgusting crap coming from Gnome, KDE, and Unity, one of the basically far superior desktops such as Xfce or LXDE will gain momentum, fill in the few missing pieces they have, and save the day for the platform, but I hate to have to bet the future on it.
Fork one of KDE 3.5 [...]
Already done : http://www.trinitydesktop.org/
Drat, here I was, all set for the program to hold a summit on my Linux desktop. Participants could tweet in. Maybe IBM's Watson gets his own window...
It seems the the desktop developers have forgotten what computers are for. They're used to get things done; email, web-browsing, documents, spreadsheets, scientific calculations, video games, etc, etc. *THAT* is why I bother getting a computer in the first place. I use ICEWM because it stays out of the way, and lets me run apps.
I don't go for this garbage about...
* it's relational
* it's 4th generational
* it's got abject ornamentation
* yes folks, thanks to multiple inheritance, it's both a toothpaste and a floor wax
When a desktop environment requires MySQL as a dependancy, you know they've gone off into la-la-land.
I'm not repeating myself
I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
I've tried hard to like GNOME Shell but I have several problems with it, such as
- the statement about reducing distraction. Its current form actually is very distracting, much more so that its GNOME 2 (seriously, with multiple windows open I have to Alt-Tab, arrow... arrow and that's NOT distracting?)
- they seem to be solving problems that I really have not seen anyone bring up. Where was the overwhelming requirement for "less distraction"?
- the base font change still leaves me scratching my head. It's harder to read, dimmed text is almost unreadable without highlighting the selection, and the font just seems more "plain" than the one it replaced
- wasted space in EVERY window toolbar. I keep hearing it was not "designed for smartphones/tablets", but it sure seems oriented to those appliances...
- less choice, more "why would you do that" and (my personal favourite) "it spoils the GNOME experience". In other words, the priority is to please its developers more than its users.
I really do appreciate the effort that goes into software development. I'm saddened, however, by what appears reversion to the old data center approach: we know what's good for you...
I hope the GNOME developers step back and really listen to the cries of their users. If those users didn't care they would just move on... they are (at least I am) lamenting what looks like steps in the wrong direction. Please prove me/us otherwise.
- the statement about reducing distraction. Its current form actually is very distracting, much more so that its GNOME 2 (seriously, with multiple windows open I have to Alt-Tab, arrow... arrow and that's NOT distracting?)
Alt-tab distracts you from what exactly? Your previous work? The less distraction thing is more about hiding stuff that has little nothing to do with what you are working with. And all the extra stuff (task switcher, quick menu, system tray, workspaces) are just one key press away.
- they seem to be solving problems that I really have not seen anyone bring up. Where was the overwhelming requirement for "less distraction"?
It seems you didn't read discussion about how annoying should the "application is ready" (when in task switcher icons blink). That stuff is very distracting. There were numerous solutions, like make it blink very slowly. Now it is hidden far enough. Only once it states loudly, that it is ready, then sits in the corner and quietly waits.
- the base font change still leaves me scratching my head. It's harder to read, dimmed text is almost unreadable without highlighting the selection, and the font just seems more "plain" than the one it replaced
I sure hope you filed bug report. For me it is more readable.
- less choice, more "why would you do that" and (my personal favourite) "it spoils the GNOME experience". In other words, the priority is to please its developers more than its users.
Fist, features are expensive. Somebody has to actually code AND maintain them. If the features are not used and tested properly, they tend to have nasty bugs, which in turn ruin the experience. Second, I have seen users ruin their desktops beyond repair.
Is that the "XXX sucks but YYY is great" thread?
KDE3: good, KDE4: great, Gnome3: sucks, Gnome2: sucks, Unity: I don't care
Couldn't agree more :)