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Fedora 15 Released
halfline writes "Fedora 15 was released today. It features GNOME 3 (with its substantially redone UI) and the systemd init system by default."
The release also brings the latest KDE and XFCE versions, improved Btrfs support, amd a switch from OpenOffice.org to LibreOffice. Installation images are available from the usual sources.
CentOS 6 was still not released today (big surprise)
The last time I heard "Btrfs" was from right behind me, after eating too many beans.
There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
I haven't used it since FC4, but back then it sucked big time (they even bundled a buggy gcc version; it was impossible to compile any version of the kernel with it; oh, and the gcc project didn't publish binary version; just imagine installing gcc from source :) ).
The fact that KDE crashed 5 times as often that XP was just the tip of the iceberg. I it made me avoid Linux for a few years, and then tried Ubuntu, where my only gripe is ATI support, but it sucks for all distros.
The direct download was quite slow for me. Torrent was faster for me. http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/
I have Fedora in my pants.
but I haven't yet finished fine tuning my new and shiny Kubuntu installation.
is there a option to update over the Internet yet? switch away from fedora because it was a pain to download a new dvd every 6 months to update versions.
I really really love the UI of the Fedora 14 GUI and of Windows 2000(much of XP), I really really hate Windows Vista/7, and I'm mostly ambivalent when it comes to the OSX philosophy. The question is, am I going to hate the new Gnome 3 look and feel, or what?
Bye!
Might be interesting to see how systemd will work out in something other than Arch and Debian (unstable).
Network updates have been possible for about 10 years.
Don't blame Linux for KDE's stability issues.
After half an hour with the Gnome 3 Shell I *really* want my old desktop back :(
My initial impression is that all fundamental tasks, like launching apps, switching apps, switching desktops, etc, all take far more motions and/or clicks to accomplish than before. It appears as though all my app launchers have been pulled from their organized menus and dumped in a big messy pile I have to search through. And it doesn't look like I can customize the layout like I could before.
Maybe it will grow on me, maybe I will learn and adapt (I'm trying to give the Gnome dev's the benefit of the doubt here), but as it stands after my initial half an hour, I *hate* it, and I don't think I'm going to be nearly alone?
Personally, I like Gnome3, but I have a feeling this release is going to irritate a lot of people. There's no way to go back to gnome2 (afaik) and the fall-back mode falls far short of including all of the features gnome2 had. OTOH, systemd rocks and is what SMF on solaris _should_have_been_. Using XML AND shell boilerplate to replace just shell boilerplate in SysV init was monumentally retarded. The new service script syntax is concise, short, and is what a good init should have been for many years now. Built-in dbus integration and process handling eliminates the need for folks to include syslog output (print to stderr, dbus will pick it up and forward it), or any of the BS process parent/pty/forking/daemonizing that everything does now. I've been on F15 since alpha and I'm loving it.
...I like it. The faster .drpm alone is worth it.
Hey assholes! Modding me down does NOT fix your problem! Get your shit together, would ya? Or find somebody who knows what the fuck they're doing, cuz you sure as hell don't! Incompetent fucking clowns. You're devolving back into amoebas. No offense intended to the real amoebas out there.
So as one who is fairly chaotic about app install, I never liked/used menus anyway, so pressing Meta, then starting to type what I want is natural. It's a fancier run dialog for me in essence.
My problem is I'm similarly chaotic about opening many windows, many tabs, many applications. Compiz and KDE4 has it just right, I can search and it will remove from the scaled window display any windows that do not match the search string. KDE and Windows 7 offers a weaker, but distinctly useful alternative of previewing all windows associated with an app icon. With only those two capabilities (the window preview on mouseover in the activities view acting like Unity on mouse click), I could get behind Gnome 3. Well, that and the ability to customize keyboard shortcuts, I have way too many nested remote desktop scenarios to conveniently take defaults (and I just prefer some things).
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
The desktop design is awesome. Since my first step into the linux world around '02, I loved the concept of virtual desktops and the "pager". I first started to use it with enlightenment at that time.
Either way the concept is pretty simple. You use 1 virtual desktop for one task sort of speak. My own personal example would be;
Desktop 1: 4x terminals
Desktop 2; IRC & IM
Desktop 3: File Manager
Desktop 4: Browser
Desktop X: Whatever application you want to use.
If you also save the session, everything will start up where you left it. Perfect! To me the design decision that the Gnome team has made towards this is awesome to say the least. There's a few oddities in regards to the UI but it's either themeable or modifiable.
I will also use this opportunity to say that the spatial file manager design they came up with a few years back was retarded. With a metaphor of putting stuff in drawers. Christ. Talk about thousand mouse-clicks of death.
Either way, this is a smooth try at using the desktop like I have for years. Congrats!
Has some Fedora user tried LLVMpipe with some desktop apps that require OpenGL (like Gnome Shell)?
LLVMpipe is supposed to bring CPU-based rendering to apps that otherwise would require a working graphics card with OpenGL support. Seems backwards at first, but it would be a more coherent experience: if you don't have working graphics drivers, you have the same experience (slower), instead of a fallback mode, or a different implementation (like Unity 2D instead of the "normal" Unity).
It could also pave the way for Qt 5 apps, because Qt 5 is going to require OpenGL too. If LLVMpipe works decently it would be an improvement for developers. They could use OpenGL features to make their lives easier, without worrying too much about if the user has proper drivers.
Lamo's like OSGUI will be mad because he doesn't know command line lol.
But delta rpms are nice and I don't know (haven't seen) equivalent stuff crop up in apt. apt/deb was light-years ahead in the beginning, but yum/rpm has more or less caught up and even has some nice stuff missing from apt/deb (though yum incessantly refreshing the metadata by default annoys me personally, increasing time to install a package unnecessarily).
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
First of all, I installed Fedora 15 alpha/beta because I wanted to try GNOME Shell in production. If you have tried Ubuntu GNOME 3 team PPA, you'll know what I mean. It is also a problem because Ubuntu 11.04 lacks lot of depencies necessary for smooth sail (like NM 0.89/0.9 beta).
Nevertheless, I'm quite familiar with all kind of distros (10 years on Linux Desktop...ohh...it is that long already?), so Fedora isn't something new for me. It was also interesting to see what have changed over the years.
First of all, Fedora has solid repository system, using yum. Adding repositories are very easy (using special rpms with distribution configuration files for yum), and software is more or less up to date. It is huge change from antique rpm command only system. RPM Fusion repository fills your "evil side" needs like commercial codecs and software :) Also delta rpms are very interesting concept and while building delta change list requires some time for descent system, download size is cut seriosly, so this technology definitely has a future.
Fedora 15 ships GNOME 3 almost unchaged, in it's full glory. It makes sanse if we remember which paid for GNOME 3 development in first place. This is also reason why it makes sense to try in on Fedora.
I will skip detailed analysis about why I like GNOME 3 (or GNOME overall). Mostly because why I'm all for freedom to change your desktop at your will, I don't like to do it myself (too much real life I suppose). Anyway, while concept (for GNOME Shell that is) seems to be strange and you need to relearn some motor skills, it pays back after several weeks. Mostly GS works because it is very simple - top panel (you can't change it), Activities view with dock and that's mostly it. I'm surprised that I really like switching between apps using Activities view. with few windows it feels like too much, but with ten it definitely helps Also Alt+Tab with Alt+` is very nice touch (especially when you talk on phone and try to find app with another hand using Alt+Tab).
In overall I really love it. When I heard that Canonical will make Unity default as I was saddened because I thought it is the end for GNOME 3. Well, it doesn't - and if Canonical won't start deliver soon with Unity and someone will make serious effort to make good distro with GNOME 3 as default, Mike will have to run for his money.
user@ubuntubox:~$ stfu This server is going down for shutdown NOW!
Why are all main stream distribution still only release their live/install media in CD/DVD image file? Why not USB? The only distro that I know of offers that is Arch. I have at least two laptop that doesn't have an optical drive. Yes, I can use UNetbootin to make one, but in this day and age, why not just offer an image? Why are we still burning onto write-once media (few, if any, use cd-rw for this purpose?) like cdr/dvdr that become obsolete when a new version comes out and are really toxic to the dumpster.
Side question: what is the proper way to throw away cdr/dvdr's?
The only possible interpretation of any research whatever in the 'social sciences' is: some do, some don't
As another reader pointed out, you can put a Linux ISO on to a USB stick. I know Fedora and Ubuntu both come with tools to do just this. Another option that has been supported for as long as I've been using Linux distros has been net booting - you download a tiny image and then install over the network. If you can do bootp you don't even need to put the small image on the machine using removable media.
Finally something I learned is that you can quite bootstrap an install CD if you have the technical chops and a machine which has a bootloader that lets you boot arbitrary kernels. You typically unpack the ISO to a spare partition, grab the vmlinuz and initrd/initramfs and then boot that and pass the options that let it know which partition contains the rest of the install. It was initially very painful to learn how to do this but it does mean you don't need any new media on machines which have something like grub already working (or you can put grub on a USB device and then boot off that).
I hate to say it because I'm a big fan of gnome and fedora, but from a technical standpoint this release is really sub par. I've had more problems with installation with 15 than any I can remember in recent history.
- For the first time the installer requires more than the 512gigs of ram on my laptop, had to do a network update
- new kernel won't detect network card on PC, had to force latest fedora 14 kernel to get online
- Oh look, evolution changed it's mail folder structure and decided to delete all my existing email
- Random freezes when doing large file transfers??
- Now my PC hangs indefinitely on reboot unless I hit the power switch
- Gnome shell is a little clunky but its growing on me. To bad they removed every menu option to turn off the computer except the oh-so-useful Suspend... the option every computer needs except the vast majority that aren't laptops
On the other hand, it does not work for me. I use a desktop setup much like the parent poster does. The problem lies in the fact that all of these apps MUST be started up. If for any reason whatsoever you close out the final app on a desktop or the final app on a desktop crashes, that desktop goes away and the other desktops "shift" up by one. Now the Browser is no longer on desktop 4, it is on desktop 3.
In addition to that I use ctrl+alt+left and ctrl+alt+right to move between desktops, and having the ability to wrap around from 4 back to 1 or from 1 back to 4 is nice. The way Gnome shell uses ctrl+atl+up and ctrl+alt+down and the lack of desktop wrapping is an issue for me.
With Fluxbox I am able to do the following right out of the box:
Ctrl+Fx = goto desktop
Winkey+Fx = send app to desktop
Ctrl+Winkey+Fx = goto deskop WHILE sending app to desktop
Ctrl+Alt+left/right = goto next/prev desktop
Winkey+left/right = send app to next/prev desktop
Ctrl+Winkey+left/right = goto next/prev desktop WHILE sending app to desktop
Without even taking my fingers off of the keyboard I have more control over my virtual desktops in a program written a decade ago than I do with Gnome Shell. Along with the ability to set shortcut keys for launching apps like:
ctrl+alt+c = calc
Or chaining keys such as ctrl+alt+k (for KDE) thus:
ctrl+alt+k+b (for browsing, bring up konqueror)
ctrl+alt+k+c (for kcalc)
ctrl+alt-e (for editor, kate)
ctrl+alt+s (for shell, konsole).
Along with the ability to have rules for where windows end up or being able to set up a keyboard shortcut to start a program if it is not running, and if it is running, either to bring the program to my current desktop, or to switch to the desktop where the program is currently running at. I can also run Dock Apps for launchers, pagers, utilities, status indicators, and clocks instead of being forced into app indicators. I have seen nothing better than wmmsg http://www.dockapps.org/file.php/id/169 at letting me know I received an IM while I was gone. As long as I am at a desktop and not a hand held tablet, Fluxbox beats Gnome Shell 3 hands down. I have a 6 year investment in my keyboard shortcuts that Gnome Shell can not match.
The funny thing is all of the stuff they are doing to bring virtual desktops so front and center that users can't help but use them, kills off a lot of the usefulness of virtual desktops.
vi +
Has Fedora done anything about problems concerning NVidia cards? I tried 12,13, and 14 but X kept freezing on me with either the proprietary driver or nouveau. I haven't had such problems on other distros, but no such luck on Fedora. I have used the tricks I found in the forums but none worked well.
Just upgraded my laptop from F14 - F15 with preupgrade. It all went very well.
Congrats everyone!
I've been playing around with gnome-3 for about an hour and I'm getting the hang of it. It's definitely different and is certainly cool. I miss is my cute little applets especially power, network and system load. Are they gone from gnome-3?
Also I'd like to change the pure white text on black theme of the bar thingy at the top of the screen.
"The release also brings the latest KDE and XFCE versions, improved Btrfs support, amd a switch from OpenOffice.org to LibreOffice."
I'm pretty sure it should read "and a switch."
Same here. After almost 10 years with GNOME, I have migrated to XFCE for F15.
For former GNOME-2 user, XFCE provides almost the same experience: it is based on GTK, and their Terminal even is based on the same widget as gnome-terminal. I have kept my window-manager (sawfish), so the user interface is almost the same.
Unfortunately, in F15 the Galeon browser is no longer provided, so I had to migrate to Firefox, which is my biggest change in F15 from the UI standpoint. I will miss Galeon's smart bookmarks.
XFCE even supports the "desktop icons are minimized applications" mode (the default option is "desktop icons are application launchers") as the old window managers like twm or fvwm had.
-Yenya
--
While Linux is larger than Emacs, at least Linux has the excuse that it has to be. --Linus
You said "First of all" twice. Doesn't count the second time.
I would mirror most of the rest of what you said though. GNOME 3 is actually pretty good - unless you WANT your desktop to be based on Win95.
Cheers
D
does it work? or does it crash?
http://agender.sourceforge.net/ get a free schedule tool
Does anyone know how long Redhat/Fedora will keep supporting Fedora 14 with updates and security fixes?
I tried Fedora 15 with the Gnome_shell and KDE and both are not for me. I intend to stay with Fedora 14 as long as there is support before I quit Linux. I may switch to Fedora 15 and use it as a server only. I played with Scientific Linux based on RHES 6.0 but it is Fedora 11 and it does not come with the same kind of software like Joomla, books on Java and Python development, and other things that Fedora has.
http://saveie6.com/