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Chinese Military Admits Existence of Cyberwarfare Unit
InfiniteZero writes "China has admitted for the first time that it had poured massive investment into the formation of a 30-strong commando unit of cyberwarriors — a team supposedly trained to protect the People's Liberation Army from outside assault on its networks."
and I'm positive their cyber-commandos have been very, very offensive for a long time. It wouldn't surprise me if they haven't been working hand-in-glove with the North Korean counterparts as well.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
30 units of units..
If you're interested in facts I'll tell you what they are and I'll give you sources - Chomsky on The Big Idea
"The internet has no boundaries, so we can't say which country or organisation will be our enemy and who will attack us. The Blue Army's main target is self-defence. We won't initiate an attack on anyone[.]"
Well, I'm glad to hear that! Nothing to worry about.
[side note: Haha, spelling mistakes]
2002 called, they want their news back.
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
Gain funding by selling virtual game currencies to the online public through farming/hacking game accounts and the like.
______ Eagles may fly but monkeys don't get sucked into jet engines.
An adversary's Command & Control has always been a prime military target. Why should it be any different in an information age? The only thing that surprises me is the relatively small number of 30 (admitted) members in the unit. I'd bet even money that every single major government in the world has such a cyber unit and probably much larger (*cough* US *cough*) in scale.
...David Lightman, so nuuh!!!
Anybody else find it hilarious when governments try to make their "cyberwarfare" divisions sound badass with phrases like "30-strong commando unit of cyberwarriors"?
It's to distract attention from the CONNECTION RESET BY PEER
Does this include drone pilots, like the ones the US has, dropping bombs from the basement of a Las Vegas casino? I mean, what could be more 'cyber' than that?
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
An army needs supplies;
Organizing supplies (logistics) gets very complicated, and needs IT infrastructure;
Disabling an opposing army's supply lines is a proved war strategy;
Enemies could damage the IT infrastructure, thereby endangering the supply lines;
In a conflict, enemies will try to damage the army's IT infrastructure;
An army needs people who can protect its IT infrastructure and damage the enemy's.
I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
So if they're revealing 30, that means there's at least 3x somewhere else...
Cyberwarriors run on Clearasil, Red Bull and porn.
I've always wondered: what, exactly, are the things that a "cyberwarfare unit" would actually *do*? I can see the need for, say, communications blocking / tampering in offensive and defensive situations (US in Afganistan blocking local communications). If there was a group of militery pen-testers, which I'm sure there are in almost any countries military, I could sort of see why they'd be called "cyberwarfare warriors". But, I'd have thought that there were already network engineers / security auditors, and the like, for individual national organizations and military sectors. Is that all that these units do? Besides DDoS'ing / hacking other countries military / civil infrastructure?
what could be more 'cyber' than that?
I put on my robe and wizard hat.
I cast Lvl. 3 Eroticism. You turn into a real beautiful woman.
I meditate to regain my mana, before casting Lvl. 8 chicken of the Infinite.
It's like "The 's military admits that water can be wet." thingy. Right?
Report of "Chinese" employee downloading entire servers worth of data oversee were already old and proven 15 years ago.
Now corporation think of IT security as an over valued expanse that can be compensated with DRM.
The rest is news at 11h. Barely.
They should hire a cyber ninja instead.
They only need to hire 1 and he will pwn the rest of the world.
They have had for at least a decade a brigade-sized training element for this, and yet only 30 people *total* serving the role..... yeah right.
... their regular commandos. Except they have tape wrapped around the bridge of their night vision goggles.
Have gnu, will travel.
America would like to start their own but Disney trademarked the name "Blue Unit" and Facebook patented the method of communicating with other computers via Internet. Guess that's the end of that.
It sounds like they just connected their test network to the internet.
``Warriors, come out and play yay!'' Beer bottle clinking in alternating patterns.
30 enlisted personnel and 300,000 contractors.
... the sky is blue and my ex-wife is a cunt.
Grammar nazis are to this community what excrements are to gold.
China's population - 1.3 Billion, 30 strong commando unit = 0.000002253% of population using real pop. #'s. In America, as a CISSP working security for govt. where there are FAR more of us than that....I must say in the numbers game...we got this one in the bag, for once...just sayin.
is that the US army is used to not having IT infrastructure even on a good day. our IT people are so inept and incompetent that we train as if they are not there, cause most of the time they are not. the mission goes on. we can still march and supply without IT infrastructure.
we have our own cyber warfare unit and they probably suck as much as the people in charge of the army networks. now, the contractors the government hires are probably pretty good. but the army... not so much.
Frippen in the jim jam, Frappen in the krotz!
- The wizard of id -
30 strong? Forget cyberwarfare, this is more like cyberwelfare!
It makes me wonder if they finally admitted this in timing with the whole Lockheed Martin story. My first initial thought was "Damn, that commando unit of cyberwarriors got Lockheed!"
-Shrug-
on the DoD firewall machines... mmmm.... wouldn't you like some of this?
I was telling everyone who didn't run away fast enough back in the seventies that the only logical explanation for Nuclear Weapons (I lived in Livermore) was to scam the taxpayer, and when we got into the next war we'd have to start from scratch supplying our boys with tools that they could actually use. Also I said that the Russians were desperately behind, and truly fearful of our imperialist intentions, and the people to watch out for were those inscrutable Chinese. I'm pretty sure we should shut down our offshore military and let the Chinese secure the "stability" of the Mideast. Let them go broke for a change, while we invest the savings into modern energy technology. YMMV (Heck, I hear the Europeans get all that oil, let them subsidise it.)
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
I'm from Germany but I can Read it. You can visit my Side: www.miniriff.cms4people.de
I actually toasted a couple slices of spelt bread this morning, but yeah, for some reason I always have to back up a lot to "correct" my spelling. Stuff like "realise", &c., that we Americans have to spell incorrectly to keep the red underlines away.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
Oh shit, they are going to upgrade all of humanity. Where is the Doctor when you need him?
Very nice term...Cyberwarriors
Only it looks like suicide, accidents or random.
Just because it's a cold war or not a typical shooting war it doesn't mean it's not a war and that people don't get killed.
I don't think it's that simple. China isn't going to go broke. They have more than enough people willing to work for peanuts.
Everytime I boot my linux box I get a fortune cookie under my desk... Was wondering.
"Computers are a lot like Air Conditioners" "They both work great until you start opening Windows"
I'm pretty sure we should shut down our offshore military and let the Chinese secure the "stability" of the Mideast.
I don't claim to be an expert on global military strategy, but in the past, every time we've done this and pursued an isolationist policy, the world has come right back knocking on our door with a war that can't be refused. Starting from the war of 1812 (we tried to be neutral, but the British kept capturing our ships), up until WW2.
Add to that, in the lead up to WW2, if someone had put a little expense into stopping Germany right when they were starting out, it would have been nothing. Instead everyone pursued their isolationist policies until it grew into an expensive, deadly, unignorable problem.
Maybe times are different now, but it is clearly a good idea sometimes to pay a small expense now to avoid a bigger pain later (and saying that, I was opposed to the Iraq war from the beginning).
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
The attack on RSA, then Lockheed Martin was too long term and risky for any of the Organized Crime hacking groups. It was definitely a government. The only ones that can capitalize on the return are the Chinese. Well, I suppose the French might be an extremely unlikely 2nd place.
So, they hacked Lockheed, so they could make better attack aircraft, so they could protect the PLA from outside assault on its networks. Like hell. About the same time the attack on Lockheed went down, I noticed they were scanning for BGP. First time I've seen BGP scanning in years. It all looks offensive to me.
Biggest, richest, and scariest country in the world has cyber-war division - 90 comments
Game simulators removed from app store - 130 comments
Glad to see people have their fucking priorities straight.
The US has not been perusing "an isolationist policy", but an imperialist/for profit one. It certainly has never been keeping to itself militarily, if that is what you were implying. Don't take my word for it, one of the most highly decorated Marines (Major General) of his day spelled it out pretty clearly:
"I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents."
On WW2:
The book is also interesting historically as Butler points out in 1935 that the US is engaging in military war games in the Pacific that are bound to provoke the Japanese.
"The Japanese, a proud people, of course will be pleased beyond expression to see the United States fleet so close to Nippon's shores. Even as pleased as would be the residents of California were they to dimly discern through the morning mist, the Japanese fleet playing at war games off Los Angeles."
"Butler's particular contribution was his recantation, denouncing war on moral grounds after having been a warrior hero and spending most of his life as a military insider. The theme remained vigorously patriotic and nationalistic, decrying imperialism as a disgrace rooted in the greed of a privileged few."
No surprises there. The Chinese Hackers were an effective unit in C&C Generals.
*ttp://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100226184557/cnc/images/5/5b/Generals_Hacker.jpg
*ttp://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Hacker
well 1812 was fought for a number of reasons the impression of the sailors was the excuse used for an expansionist policy - trying to invade Canada whilst the Brits where busy with Napoleon.
"Does that include all 2nd grade, third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade, and sixth grade kiddie crackers who are as this is being written busy hacking into the Pentagon? I would believe 30,000 more than their 30 figure. The number is probably more like 30M. Trusting them gives me a headache.."
Either it's really low or really high. If their entire cyber warfare (I hate this word) command is 30 operators, then it becomes pretty simple to make these combatants ineffective during a conflict. In time of peace, you keep them covered with intelligence assets and take them out if the opportunity presents.
This strategy would be much more difficult to execute at 300 or 3000 such specialists. And it's China. You're telling me there are only 30 people in China that meet the PLA's rigorous standards for super hacker?
It's funny you say we tried to be neutral until WW2. Were we neutral when we invaded and annexed half of Mexico over a border dispute in Texas? How about when we conquered several Spanish colonies? How about the bazillion interventions in Latin America? The "America was isolationist" myth is just that, a myth. American soldiers have been all over the place. IIRC our troops had been present on every continent but Europe prior to WWI.
SSC
This is news? Isn't this the same as the US admitting the existence of Delta Force, Seal Team 6, or Area 51? I mean really?
/., it's too early to be wasting my time on this...
Rah, rah, the Chinese have a "computer commando" unit... big freaking deal. A "blue" team the same as a US "red" team? Great, so it's a pen-test team, maybe with other duties. Like the US doesn't have anything like that in the government or private sectors...
"Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet." General James Mattis
> How about when we conquered several Spanish colonies?
Hey now, the US didn't actually invade those (Guam, Puerto Rico, Philippines); they were unexpected concessions at the end of the Spanish-American war.
> Were we neutral when we invaded and annexed half of Mexico over a border dispute in Texas?
The "border dispute in Texas" was nearly ten years after Texas declared independence - and won it 'for real' when Mexico invaded. The US didn't invade Mexico in the Mexico-US war until after Mexico had invaded Texas again.
IMO, phantomfive probably shouldn't have used the term 'isolationist'... it's a bit loaded, and the US meaning of the term in those years (military non-involvement in conflict in Europe and colonies outside the Western hemisphere) was different from the present day meaning (military non-involvement absolutely anywhere outside one's own national borders).
Nor should FriendlyLurker have claimed Imperialism; given the context (all the major powers were making huge colony grabs throughout the world, which the US, itself a successful ex-colony, refused to do). Even after WW2, it's difficult to call the US Imperialist even by pointing out the wars - because in doing so one must accept that the post-Spanish-American US doesn't go to war to gain territory. It takes a lot of arm-bending and broad redefining to claim the US is practicing economic Imperialism - and a lot of looking the other way to then not point out that the broadened definition covers nearly every nation.
The stronger point would have been this: the US didn't keep a large standing army in peacetime until after the Korean War. It had a small force that did small things, and then when a "real" war happened the US was usually caught with a bunch of recruits and rusty decades-old equipment. Then it had a huge one at all times through the rest of the cold war - you have no time to train and re-arm if a large scale modern war hits, especially if it goes nuclear - until policy changes in the late 1990s. (IIRC, cold war policy was to be ready to fight two major wars on different fronts at the same time. I think the suspicion was that if the Soviets invaded Europe, the Chinese would invade elsewhere - or China might move first but USSR second. Even if they weren't coordinating it, it'd go that way because both would expect the US to be bogged down dealing with the other). Though the US did end up fighting two at once in the 2000s, note that both were much smaller scale wars; the total troops simultaneously deployed peaked at, what, 200,000? The US had half a million at once back in the Vietnam war. The coalition vs Iraq in the early 1990s sent just under a million troops.
The WARRIORS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alXSShO1hrU&feature=related
* Ah... nothing like a trip to my own neighborhood!
APK
P.S.=> That's the FULL MOVIE too, I was genuinely surprised!
... apk
"America was an isolationist" was very real, you are showing your ignorance by only focusing on events you are aware of. There was serious opposition to the Philippine annexation, and also the Hawaiian annexation for that matter.
Much as we have today, throughout history there has been an isolationist segment of society and a colonialist, interventionist segment. Sometimes the isolationists won, sometimes the interventionists won. There have always been people like William Walker, but they were not always backed by the rest of the country.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
See my previous comment, although I do not apply the first sentence to you.
If you look at the list of wars that the US has engaged in since its inception, that vast majority have been minor operations where some crappy little dictatorship got overthrown by a new dictator, and american people and interests needed protection. That was certainly a violation of sovereignty, but it's hard to respect the authority of a two-bit dictatorship that will just be overthrown in another five years.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Hey! History belongs to the winner. If I don't want to remember that, I don't have to!
There has always been a strong current of Isolationism in the US. Many people have held a strong dislike to seeing the US involved in conflicts overseas since the WWI.
However, the US has throughout its history pretty much, been involved in invading other countries to protect the interests of its major corporations. The US has been the most belligerent nation in the world for most of its history. There have been a variety of reasons given to justify the military activities the US has engaged in, but in the end I think it all boils down to the US Government doing the bidding of its major corporate sponsors. You were late to both world wars, primarily due to that isolationist segment of your population in fact.
"The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
Of course, what this quote doesn't actually show is that the wargames in question were held east of Midway Island (A US possession), which is rather more than 2500 miles from Japan.
A better comparison might be the Japanese Navy doing wargames on the other side of Midway (about 2500 miles from the USA). Even then, the comparison would be stretching things a bit, since the Japanese didn't actually own anything in the Pacific that was terribly close to Midway.
Note also that a similar comparison might be the British Navy holding wargames in the Atlantic 2500 miles from the USA. Near Ireland, basically....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
you got to give it to them though, they got the 'bogeyman' thing down cold..
First thing that came to mind.
Go ahead, let's see how you can blame shit like the Opium Wars, the World Wars, the several empires fighting for territory all the time, colonialism, and all that other shit on the US. Oh right, you just blatantly ignore your own history, but the US
has been the most belligerent nation in the world for most of its history
because it knocked over a couple dictatorships. Stupid revisionist Eurofags are last in a land that reality forgot.
Every day I get people from China trying dictionary attacks on my public key protected SSH servers. It must be these guys!
I think the Major General would know where the ships were actually were playing their war games - I hardly think he was the type of guy to make shit up.
I hope we're "doing" it to them as they are trying to do it to us. It would make my heart feel good to know we are giving them back a taste of their own medicine - and I hope is 10X over...
We .gov, .mil, .com... offense is that smart for many C*Os is one platform, one OS, one application (email, web-browser, office...) ... one-way-to-do-all makes IT politically safe, career secure, and flaw-generating to the agile and flexible CrackerCyberCorps moto of "AttackAttackAttack...".
Curious question: Do all web-browsers provide a default global list of PKI Certificate Authorities (CN, RU...)? Is there a global certificate authority or CA role hierarchy to be trusted for China, Iran, North Korea...? If I am in a business/enterprise environment are there be reasons for limiting the browser default CA global list to maybe just the US, EU, CA...?
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
For humanity (C*Os, Bishops, Politicians, Professors ... Generals and Enlisted) there is the same bell shaped curve (some geniuses and some idiots).
In a war saving money may not be smart. 30K will always clobber 30. 30 can be killed quicker than 30K (if no nukes, chem...).
The bell shaped curve says if you can select a perfect sample 30 from a population of 300M, then you are about 1K times (30K) less capable of effective cyber-warfare. IOW: URPhucked!
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
Who said anything about saving money? I did say something about distribution of funds, though.
Every harsh word you utter has the right address. It only sounds harsh because the one on the envelope is the wrong one.
Wow, is it September already?
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
That wasn't a deliberate troll, but rather a heinous oversimplification. Too many hours past my bedtime.... I don't expect we'll break them, ha-ha, but it's getting pretty old, subsidizing enemies. Again an oversimplification, but when I look at the gestalt, it sure resembles a conspiracy.
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
A few of us Americans are getting rather tired of backing filibusters around the globe; And when I hear about "promoting stability and prosperity" I figure we're about to invest a few more billion in yet another "two-bit dictator".
They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.