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Senior Citizens Lining Up to Tackle Fukushima
Some have compared them to kamikazes, but the more than 200 elderly volunteers who want clean up the Fukushima power station say they are just being practical. 72-year-old retired engineer Yasuteru Yamada says: "I am 72 and on average I probably have 13 to 15 years left to live. Even if I were exposed to radiation, cancer could take 20 or 30 years or longer to develop. Therefore us older ones have less chance of getting cancer." So far the government is hesitant to let the volunteers into the power station but Yamada and the others have been lobbying for the right to aid in the clean up. He says: "At this moment I can say that I am talking with many key government and Tepco people. But I am sorry I can't say any more at this moment. It is on the way but it is a very, very sensitive issue politically."
I wonder if there is a population here in the States that would be willing to take a compelling risk like this.
Kamikazes? More like heroes (but then again, that all definition depends on whether you're in the air or on the ground).
Prime Minister re-elected in landslide victory getting all robot votes.
This is a tremendous show of character and pragmatism. I don't think that I'd have the courage to offer myself. I'm very impressed.
samzenpus said fuku
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
"I am 72 and on average I probably have 13 to 15 years left to live. Even if I were exposed to radiation, cancer could take 20 or 30 years or longer to develop. Therefore us older ones have less chance of getting cancer."
Isn't the "time to cancer" a function of both exposure AND age? It would seem sensible that the senior citizens' cells are already damaged by old age, so exposure to radiation would have a head start as opposed to a 20 year old.
IANARH (I am not anything relevant here) so I'm really curious about this question.
Most people will probably just see a huge Corporation taking advantage if these people are allowed to do what they plan on doing, but I have to say that I'm impressed.
Practically sacrificing for the greater good is an admirable attribute. I have to thank these Japanese Seniors for restoring my faith in humanity.
[citation needed][weasel words]
If you're going to add some bullshit controversy to get your story posted on Slashdot, at least compare them to Apple zealots.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Older people have lower rates of celldivision, and thus probably have a lower chance on cancer (for the same dose).
This opens up a lot of issues that become a can of worms. When is one life worth less than another? IF some task is to hard for someone of 72 years old, do we recruit cancer patients in relatively good health (read: strong physique)? For what other jobs are these people then suited for? To assume someone will perish in a given lifetime, opens doors we may not want to venture through. Im not saying its a BAD IDEA, I'm saying its one that should not be discussed behind closed doors.
I, for one, will never look down at anyone (politician or anyone), for considering an idea. The best way to decide on issues like these is to have an open, sincere debate. Its sad that so many politicians don't want to be seen CONSIDERING a tenuous idea, let alone actually go through with it; that they spend so much resources hiding the fact. We should encourage free thought and radical ideas, because if even one in a thousand is a good one, then the whole exercise is worth it. There are no bad ideas, only bad actions.
Given the death of one worker at the planet, it suggests that working in restrictive radiation suits in stressful conditions all day it probably more dangerous then the radiation, especially for people who are older and no longer in ideal health.
Back in the day, President Carter was part of a clean up crew for a nuclear accident. At that time it was because he had the security clearance needed because he was in the Navy, in addition to knowing about reactors.
The point that these retired worker make about lower cancer risk is a good one. If there are Japanese speaking retired nuclear workers around the world, getting them to step in would make a lot of sense. There may even be room for non-Japanese speakers as a part of a crew with a translator.
Jesus Tap Dancing Christ, straight to the America bashing in two posts! Read any story about any disaster here in the US to find inspiring tales.
Sometimes old people are surprisingly hardcore. Japanese doubly so, when it's about _work_.
How many ways are there for people in their 70's to make a such large and meaningful contribution to their society? It would really be a great legacy to leave behind.
In Japan, the old say "What can I do to help"
In the US the old say "Don't touch my entitlements"
Is the practice of recruiting silly young people into the military any better?
When they die, they lose their life expectation of maybe 70 years, while older people would lose a bit less.
Hey don't blame me, IANAB
Since nuclear accidents are inevitable, it would be good to get a hotshot team of retired engineers prepared for any emergency at any reactor. This should be a professional requirement in the field.
They screwed the world up now it's time to fix it :)
We are not using robots to do this . I seen so many from cops to military using them, I would say we could do this almost over night with robots and without the loss of life. Is this a money thing again. Stupid Planet.
Good news is, the lab boys say the symptoms (...) show a median latency of forty-four point six years, so if you're thirty or older, you're laughing. Worst case scenario, you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator and it makes a happy face.
this only continues to prop up the disproven evil Capitalist "privatize the profits, socialize the risks" mindset.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
No structure is perfect but we should learn from from this disaster, specifically spent fuel pools and working reactors withing the same structure. Bravery is cool and all but I would wish society would stress learning from our failures instead of sacrificing for them.
-DML
How can they clean the place up AND move around with their walkers? And really, how do they plan on moving all that heavy stuff out there? At 70+, their muscle mass is pretty much gone... Are they hoping for radioactive mutations that will make them strong again?
-- http://www.doczayus.com/
Some have it.
read story, cry.
If you pass the test, you are allowed in.
There are some 70 year olds that can kick your 23 year old cheeto eating ass.
Good on you, mate. I'm too young yet and haven't had my kids yet either, but some day I hope to follow your example for positive attitude.
There's a reason they're called the Greatest Generation. You just don't see this attitude in people anymore.
“By the Way of the warrior is meant death. The Way of the warrior is death. This means choosing death whenever there is a choice between life and death. It means nothing more than this. It means to see things through, being resolved.” -Yukio Mishima
It's the country where the Bushido started. The country were Samurais revolted when they were offered a "peaceful living". Times change, and a tradition is doomed to disappear. But this is the country where, since the beginning of it, you weren't encouraged to die for the sake of the country or the sake of Allah, you were encouraged to embrace death because it's "the way of the warrior", and if you could do the Emperor some good with your death, then why not.
Bushido is way better than any "code of honor" because it just tells people what they really are, tools for someone or something, and that they must free themselves through an honorable death. It is where other similar philosophies fail, as they just call the inner greed in men and promise them a heaven or a memorable song.
This is why I admire that fucking country. (And yes, am terribly biased)
These are just kamikazes looking for their next amphetamine fix.
I think that this is a great attitude, but I have to admit that one of my first thoughts was of the Tim Conway "Old Man" character from The Carol Burnett Show -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_AwOIs2buE
2012 GOP Presidential Candidates, take notes, forget about the problems with the Ryan plan. Push more nukes. Organize a league of elderly nuclear emergency workers. You solve an energy problem and at the same time if an accident happens you lighten the load on Medicare without having to boot anyone off.
Stories of the "heroism" of the workers at the plant have confounded Americans, it seems.
While I am sure there is plenty of actual heroism going on, I start to think part of it is just a matter of being level-headed about it.
It reminds me of the idea that to the uneducated, science seems like magic. Similarly, it seems that belief in science to the uneducated seems heroic.
These citizens should be applauded, not for their heroism - for in reality they are risking nothing - but for their willingness to conclude that they are risking nothing, and therefore can save others and improve their world with knowledge and intelligence instead of give in to fear and commercially driven FUD at the detriment of society.
News Flash from Japan: Brave, Brave souls make smart decisions based on facts instead of media FUD! Pictures (You Gotta see these pictures!) at 11!
They voted for a pyramid scheme... They paid into the pyramid scheme... Now, they are surprised that there is no money.
Now what kind of inflammatory talk is that? The unfunded liabilities of Medicare and Social Security are only slightly over the entire 'GDP' of the entire world. How could that money possibly not materialize?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Oh, crap, didn't proofread well enough. Correction:
The unfunded liabilities of Medicare and Social Security are only slightly over twice the 'GDP' of the entire world.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
and you would find many of them from the very same families our soldiers, police officers, and fire fighters, come from. There still are many people who make this country great, far too many write them off because these are also people with very strong values who do not bend to others views of those values. My parent's neighbor is in late sixties and works for FEMA going to about every disaster that pops up. He doesn't stop till they make him take time off. He could live comfortably never lifting a finger but he doesn't know how. I bet for every free loader someone digs up we can find their opposite, something keeps this country going.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I see this guy's statement about cancer and his age as a simple justification when the bigger reason is too hard for many to grasp. As in, there are just some things than cannot be explained, they are just are. Self sacrificing people are special for reasons they cannot usually communicate.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
I wonder if there is a population here in the States that would be willing to take a compelling risk like this.
You have to ask whether these elderly volunteers have the necessary skills. You have to ask whether they have the strength and endurance needed for the job. You have to ask how vulnerable they are to radiation and other hazards. The rate of attrition.
If you do not ask these questions, what you have is a feel-good PR stunt, not a plan to secure the reactors.
Nuclear engineers, most of them, have been supporting a deadly industry which will inevitable harm people.
That's true of almost every industry you could care to mention. A coal burning power plant will release more radiation every year than a normally operating nuclear plant will in its lifetime.
Speaking of coal, all the minerals we depend upon for our way of life are provided to us by miners. They do dangerous work deep underground and, no matter how safe we make it, some of them will die. Our entire way of life is built on their blood; our lives are indebted to theirs.
You might then ask,what the point of industry is then if it's so dangerous and deadly? Well, it builds us a civilisation that is largely free of the constraints of a life built on subsistence agriculture. It's less deadly but still not perfect, just better in some ways.
Nick
"Nuke Cowboys"
with Clint Eastwood in the role of Yasuteru Yamada and Tommy Lee Jones as Michio Ito.
Seriously though - if these lads are on the level I am highly impressed by their sense of honour to the younger engineers.
I mean if we're only talking about the amount of exposure that would cause cancer after a number of years, sure I can see letting some noble older people volunteering for this.
However, what if the amount of radiation exposure required to truly fix the problem would be to the extent that would cause a more immediate and much more unpleasant death? Surely they won't let people voluntarily expose themselves to that?
that an aging population brings. Two birds, one stone.
Good news is, the lab boys say the symptoms of radiation poisoning show a median latency of forty-four point six years, so if you're thirty or older, you're laughing. Worst case scenario, you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator and it makes a happy face.
They may have seemingly have less to lose than a younger person but hang on! Seemingly touching let's think about this. What have we got?
1) One human life considered less important than another
2) Does this raise stereotypes from the 2nd World war? Or would the response be similar in other countries? Back then we thought the Kamikazee did it for the emperor. What does this mean in context? What do gen Y Japanese think of the old folk?
3) Actually an older person has been exposed to more radiation already... are they more or less susceptible than a `young` person? What is young? It's only about chances but the chances are not at all how they are being viewed. A 70 year old may have another longer to live than a 30 year old. I know plenty of people dying in their 20's from cancer, and as said here before a 20 year estimate could be 19 years out.
4) Just general ageism here?
I love to see a positive story in the news but I always like to observe oneself and my own reactions to this are not all good.
My main point to make here is to always examine ones reactions to news - that is more important than deciding whether it is good or bad that people will sacrifice themselves for the greater good.
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What if the elderly volunteers develop superpowers?
My apologies if you are not ;-) The only thing more insufferable than a born again Christian is a dyed in the wool atheist. Yes, these older Japanese citizens know the facts and have weighed the positives and negatives of their offer. Yes their decision is aided by scientific and medical facts. But, that does not diminish any of the heroism. Rather, it actually adds to it. What do you mean that they are risking nothing? They are offering the ultimate sacrifice any human being can make, i.e. to lose their life in service of humanity. That is more than many of us here could ever hope or dare to offer.
Radiation physically damages biological cells - not "just" genes. The damaged cells' pieces intoxicate the organism almost immediately. And have to be leached by it. And the body also has to repair the physical damage suffered.
Seniors are much more fragile and susceptible to this sort of stress. Pre-cancerous cells and clusters probably get all the incentive they require to go full out. They'll go under sooner and yuckier than the younger gentry.
Juniors heal faster and better - but live long enough to develop more cancers later on.
Of course, with hundreds of billions of lethal doses already spewed out into the open, and circling into the coming monsoon winds, it really won't make that much of a difference. They really should be negotiating the rent for part of N.Koreas country-wide deep tunnels. Or for the empty apartments in China, in the more Nausicaa-esque high-valleys.
Most cancer are an old age things. Contrary to to popular myth for example, the lung cancer is not something young people gets. If you look at the gaussian distribution, the lung cancer is peaking around 67-68 , starts to pick up at 40 only.
Lung cancer age distribution, the same happen for many many cancer, which is why prewventive examination happen to start around the age of 40 for many (like prostate, intestine, breast cancer....).
To my knowledge it is the same for most if not all cancer age distribution as lung.
Please note that this is valid only for age related cancer. Virus induced cancer might be probably something else, ditto for radiation induced cancer which can happen very rapidely (think of chernobyl and thyroid induced cancer due to I 131 which did not wait 20 years contrary to what that old japanese gentleman thought).
So lower cell division rate don't matter as much as the rate of proper division versus error division, and this one increase dramatically as you age.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
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The first ones made to go in should be the tepco managers and the officials from the goverments and nuke authourities whom allowed this to happen through their negligence and or greed
No, the only thing that would float is if the Tepco management team themselves "volunteered" to do the clean up, as penance for the disaster they caused.
What a great Idea!
God Bless them! And God bless the hero's who have been working there all this time. And to all you haters, are you all so warped that you just can not just see some plain goodness without going on a tangent? The subject were about the senior citizens nothing else you idiots.
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