Ask Slashdot: Good Homeschool Curriculum For CS??

dingo_kinznerhook writes "I grew up in a homeschooling family, and was homeschooled through high school. ( I went on to get a B.S. and M.S. in computer science; my mom has programming experience and holds bachelor's degrees in physics and math — she's pretty qualified to teach.) Mom is still homeschooling my younger brother and sister and is looking for a good computer science curriculum that covers word processing, spreadsheets, databases, intro to programming, intro to operating systems, etc. Does the Slashdot readership know of a high school computer science curriculum suitable for homeschooling that covers these topics?"

Comments

You don't understand what CS is

[Megor1]

"looking for a good computer science curriculum that covers word processing, spreadsheets, databases, intro to programming, intro to operating systems, etc. " This is not computer science (Intro to programming maybe), you are asking for a computer usage course, something that was not even allowed to count to my CS major.

Re:You don't understand what CS is

[obarthelemy]

give him a break: he's being home schooled. Which probably explains word processing being CS...

Re:You don't understand what CS is

[notKevinJohn]

Come on Slashdot, be reasonable. Maybe these topics don't represent what would be found in a traditional CS curriculum for college, but they sound like the very subjects that a pre-CS course at the high school level would be wise to teach.

Re:You don't understand what CS is

[SETIGuy]

No, he's calling someone who thinks using a word processor is computer science stupid. Home schooled kid aren't necessarily stupid. They're not necessarily smart either.

Re:You don't understand what CS is

[Samantha Wright]

I agree with the tone of your post, but your analogy is off-base and troubles me. Arithmetic is a direct underpinning of mathematics. The equivalent computer science task would probably be learning how to break instructions down into discrete and logical steps. Computer science as a discipline is fundamentally about procedures and algorithms, just as mathematics is about numbers and equations, and set theory is about relationships and groups.

Consequentially, using Office is less of a computer science curriculum element and more like a general life skill that involves computers. It's true that working with computers as a user is an important preface to learning how to program and think in the exact terms of a computer, but by no means does it fit the same position as arithmetic does for mathematics.

A better post might be "c'mon, guys, he's got a Masters degree. Stop being dicks about semantics and realise that he knows what he means better than most of you do."

Re:You don't understand what CS is

[SETIGuy]

If you've got a computer at home, and your kid can't use a word processor by high school, then something is wrong. Even more so, I think something is very wrong when we need courses to teach people to word process or use a spreadsheet. If you need a course to teach something, you must not want to do it very much.

Re:You don't understand what CS is

[camperdave]

Nonsense. The person may not know the software well enough themselves to teach it properly. Having a curriculum means they'll cover areas that would otherwise not even be on the radar.

Re:You don't understand what CS is

[AngryNick]

Come on Slashdot, be reasonable. Maybe these topics don't represent what would be found in a traditional CS curriculum for college, but they sound like the very subjects that a pre-CS course at the high school level would be wise to teach.

Exactly. Many computer classes in middle and high school are mostly fluff...at best review for kids who have been using a computer since birth.

I've taught my partially homeschooled kids (10 and 13) how to use the common OSs and basic tools (OSX, Ubuntu, Google Apps, Open Office), how to create and manage content (docs, spreadsheets, graphs, simple web pages, blogs, wiki), navigating and managing their drives (so I don't have to help them find their crap after they've created it), and how to be pretty much self-sufficient on their machines (installing apps, patching, upgrading distros, connecting to printers, etc.). When they get to be 14 or 15, I'll start them on databases, writing queries, and maybe writing a few scripts. At that point they'll be on their own to decide what they want to do with computers. My goal is not to make them CS majors, but to give them enough information to decide if they want to be a CS major...and the skills necessary to use a computer as a tool.

Re:You don't understand what CS is

[RobDude]

As someone with a BS in Computer Science and an in-progress Masters; I think it's safe to say anyone who is offended by this question is a d-bag.

Unless you are certain it's being used as a backhanded insult, all this means is someone doesn't fully understand what 'Computer Science' is. That's really not a reason to be offended. I don't really understand Physics, or Chemical Engineering, I'd hate to be afraid of asking a harmless question because I'm likely to offend some overly sensitive guy waiting to jump over a n0ob who only wants to learn.

Besides, what qualifies as 'Computer Science' is pretty subjective anyway. I took a 300-level 'Computer Science' class that was called 'Unix'. It covered basics of the operating system....things as simple as creating directories were covered. And it was very much apart of the Computer Science curriculum at a moderately respected 4-year University.

Dietel & Dietel

[Sonny Yatsen]

As far as intro to programming goes, when I took High School Computer Science, our textbook was the Dietel & Dietel C++ How to Program. It was definitely aimed at the beginner to intermediate level programmers and did a pretty good job at explaining fundamentals of programming to a bunch of high school sophomores and making it understandable. As I recall, you can probably go through several chapters per class because it's not so dense and impenetrable that you need bash your way through.

Here's a link to the 7th edition: http://www.amazon.com/How-Program-7th-Paul-Deitel/dp/0136117260
However, there are plenty of copies of 6th editions floating around for pretty cheap. If I recall correctly, copies of the 5th edition are even available for download for free, which makes the curriculum that much more cost-effective.

Anyway, best of luck, hope that helps.

Re:Dietel & Dietel

[jd]

Good advice.

My thought: It doesn't matter where you learn or how you learn, the fundamentals are universal.

AQA offers a suggested schooling curriculum and past papers for the exams they set. Sure it's UK not US, but C is C, HTML is HTML, MS Office is MS Office and small furry creatures from alpha centauri make great soup if you put them in the blender for long enough.

Re:Dietel & Dietel

[bosef1]

The only thing to watch out for is that, given the rapid pace of computer technology development, many older edition training course may have been rendered obsolete by the passage of time. I would be cautious about material older than 10 years (circa 2000), and material older than 15 years (circa 1995) is probably too old to use. Observe the changes to Java, C++, Ruby, and streaming media in those time frames

Of course, many of the fundamentals of computer science (algorithms and algorithm analysis) and software development (structured programming, abstraction) haven't changed, but then it comes down to whether you are doing a more "technical" introduction to computer programming, or a more "abstract" introduction to computer science.

Re:Dietel & Dietel

[jdpars]

Abreu was being overly cruel, yes, but you should look at the survey statistics for the number of parents who pull their kids out of school for "religious reasons" or (self-described) "radical unschooling." The benefit homeschoolers get compared to the rest of children in some sort of education system is that their parents are involved in their schooling.

Re:Dietel & Dietel

[camperdave]

C is C, HTML is HTML, MS Office is MS Office and small furry creatures from alpha centauri make great soup if you put them in the blender for long enough.

Blender: Now THAT needs a good tutorial!

programming practice

[icknay]

For little live code practice problems in python and java there's http://codingbat.com/

There's Google's complete free python class at http://code.google.com/edu/languages/google-python-class/

For a huge library of cs assignments, try the nifty assignments archive at http://nifty.stanford.edu/

Re:programming practice

[Sonny Yatsen]

Don't Forget MIT's OpenCourseWare Intro to Computer Science lectures. It might move at a faster pace than for a high school student, but it should give your mother some idea as to how to structure the lessons and concepts.
http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/electrical-engineering-and-computer-science/6-00-introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming-fall-2008/video-lectures/

Give them a system they can hack

[betterunixthanunix]

Give your kids a system they can hack -- give them the ability to touch any part of the system they want, and your ability to teach them about programming and CS will be greatly enhanced. The last thing you should want is to teach your children that there are some parts of their computer or computer science that are off limits to them, or that they can only touch if they work for some large corporation.

Troll?

[Spazmania]

Kids home-schooled into the high school level that don't already have competence with word processors and spreadsheets? A guy with a MS in CS who talks about word processing in the same sentence as computer science? If he wanted to push more buttons he'd have explained that his mom thought Linux was for commies. Seriously, don't feed the troll.

Don't do it

[Kittenman]

Tell your mum to teach the kids how to write a paper (as in, essay) and how to think things through (maths - logic, thinking skills). CS, such as it is, is not as important as those subjects. Certainly not at high school level.

I can't tell you the number of times I've seen badly written, unclear, badly formatted reports, papers, recommendations, audits from graduates who may have excellent CS skills but can't string sentences together to put over an idea.

So I'm a grammar Nazi. We're in an exact business. Be exact in putting out ideas. And please don't reply to this with "your welcome"...

Re:Homeschool?

[Wyatt Earp]

I had to be home schooled for a few years because of Cancer. Basically I'd miss so much school because of chemo and sickness I couldn't qualify as a full time student.

Then I went back, same friends as before but much more advanced math, science and reading levels. I was doing math, science and reading at high school graduation levels from 4th grade on.

And now I work in public education, no douchebag parents, no being out of touch with reality, no religion.

Re:Homeschool?

[Tiger4]

Those kids will grow up to be out of touch with reality, thinking they're the center of their tiny universe while being hopeless at everything other than their field of speciality.

... much like un-informed, self-righteous, snarky, cranio-rectal Slashdot writers. Get out of the basement much do ya?

Because of course you know, it is possible for a home-schooled child to become socialized with OTHER home schooled children. Or with other people in the community around them as they go about their daily lives in their neighborhood, or at the market, or gas station, or workplace, or parks, or beaches, or if they are religious, at Church. Because you know, people who go to all of those places actually speak to each other, and thus learn social skills. Unlike public school children who learn their social skills... in much the same way, actually. With the added pleasure of school imposed artificial hierarchical dominance games into the mix.

Re:Forget about it

[syousef]

The most important thing is to get him laid. Take him to european countries for as many months as you can legally stay for, and force him to approach girls and women again and again.

So the plan is if he gets rejected often enough, he'll just spontaneously turn into a computer programmer???

Re:Homeschool?

[Megaport]

Those kids will grow up to be out of touch with reality, thinking they're the center of their tiny universe while being hopeless at everything other than their field of speciality.

You have no idea what you are talking about. I homeschooled my kids and they have a larger and more diverse circle of friends than you can possibly imagine. Unlike school kids, their friends are also from a wider variety of ages because my children didn't experience the age-range apartheid that you would consider 'normal' where the majority of the children you would interact with each day were within 12 months of your own age. My daughter's 16th birthday party had more than 70 kids and 30 adults on the guest list - and these really are close friends who she has spent more quality time with growing up than anything you get out in the school yard between classes.

I'm a software engineer, but for university the kids have gone into fields as widely different as biotech, justice/law, arts/language and design. One of them went and lived in Beijing for a year to immerse herself in the culture/language when she turned 18. Another has travelled to Japan, China and the USA regularly since they were 17 years old. At 13 years old, one of the kids went and stayed with a friend's family in the USA for three months - even saved up the airfare on her own by doing babysitting around the neighborhood.

I guess that I wouldn't agree with the same homeschooling that you don't agree with - but unfortunately for you the reality of what the vast majority of homeschoolers are doing has nothing to do with your narrow prejudiced ideas. For every homeschooling parent who is keeping their kids in the basement, I'll show you 10 school kids who are wasting their lives and potential without any help from their parents at all.

It's your call.

--D

Computer Science Unplugged

[I3OI3]

I am a CS researcher in a corporate lab and a homeschooling father. I'll speak to the subject without snarking about word processing.

For the younger crowd, I can highly recommend Computer Science Unplugged. It is a great introduction to the fundamentals of computer science - algorithmic basics, information coding and entropy, finite state automata, and a bunch of other good stuff. Interestingly, the entire course is done without a computer. It has exposition, exercises, and games that reinforce those fundamentals.

It's about 10 hours of coursework, it's free, and it's geared toward the 8-12 year old crowd. My 7-year old didn't have any troubles with it, and was always hungry for more. The novelty of teaching computer science without touching a computer is also compelling.

Now, if anyone can recommend some good coursework on introduction to programming and basic algorithms for the 8-10 set, I'd appreciate it. I haven't found any good educational materials for Scratch (it's all pretty ad-hoc and amateurish), and I think Alice is a bit much for sit-you-down-and-start-programming. Any personal experiences?

Re:Homeschool?

[RobDude]

Growing up, I played on the same soccer team for years. One of the kids I became friends with was home schooled. His parents were both friendly, sociable, well educated (and from the looks of their house, doing quite well financially).

The kid was as normal as anyone else on the team. He had plenty of friends and did pretty good with the girls too. Honestly, looking back, he seemed to be a few years ahead of the curve; and was one of the most genuinely nice kids I knew. I don't know where the stereotype of home-schooled kids being freaks came from; but in my limited experience, not true.