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Embed a Video, Go To Jail?

An anonymous reader writes "A few weeks ago, Slashdot had a post about the new bill in Congress to make streaming infringing videos a felony, punishable by up to 5 years in jail if just 10 people watch the video. As more details come out, the bill keeps looking worse and worse, as it appears that the definitions used in the bill would mean that merely embedding or linking to an infringing YouTube video could put you on the hook for jail time. Obviously, supporters of the bill insist that's not who will be targeted with this bill, but just the fact that they could be should be worrisome enough. We've seen other laws 'misused' in the past."

45 of 314 comments (clear)

  1. Good - arrest me by commodore6502 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd be happy to appear on every radio and TV show discussing the out-of-control government which arrested me because I linked infringing "Sanctuary" episodes from youtube to my facebook page. It's time to Inform the public about what kind of tyranny they are living.

    So go ahead and arrest me.
    I'll be happy to fight back.

    --
    Information wants to be expensive AND wants to be free. So you have Value vs. Cheap distribution fighting each other.
    1. Re:Good - arrest me by SilentStaid · · Score: 2

      Dude, you're 11. Let the adults handle this, okay?

      They're doing a bang up job so far... maybe we should let the younger generation take a crack at it.

    2. Re:Good - arrest me by JockTroll · · Score: 2

      maybe we should let the younger generation take a crack at it.

      The younger generation is taking too much crack already.

      --
      Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
    3. Re:Good - arrest me by Script+Cat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Selective enforcement needs to be a crime in its self. It happen all the time. This is incompatable with rule of law.

    4. Re:Good - arrest me by Gripp · · Score: 2

      sounds great in theory. problem becomes that no matter how big of a problem it is, nobody cares enough to listen. so have fun yelling at the wall!

      however, where is the petition to have this shut down? posting it up on /. would be a great idea....

      and i don't care what the proponents "think the intent is" it will be used to-the-letter of how it is stated. and i'm sure they know this (who doesn't!?). so to me it sounds they are even admitting it is incorrect.

    5. Re:Good - arrest me by delinear · · Score: 3, Informative

      The problem is the people who own the media are the same ones buying these ridiculous laws. How much airtime are they going to give you to argue against something they've spent a lot of time and money lobbying for? At best some liberal media might pick this up and then get shouted down as commies. Even if you could get your point across, the second it became clear you knew what you were talking about, they'd drop the charges and claim that as proof the system works - there are plenty of people who don't understand the issues that they can go after instead.

    6. Re:Good - arrest me by Sique · · Score: 3, Informative

      Mercy can only be given after the guilt was established. You can't pre-pardon people who aren't even considered guilty yet. Selectively accusing and prosecuting people is incompatible with the rule of law.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    7. Re:Good - arrest me by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Lately 'Law' is the only goal. Justice used to be the goal. This is what happens when lawyers are placed too high on the pedestal. What we need is a good old fashioned pogrom against lawyers. Starting with IP lawyers. Take your pick where you want to start next.

      --
      -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
    8. Re:Good - arrest me by houstonbofh · · Score: 2

      however, where is the petition to have this shut down? posting it up on /. would be a great idea....

      How about http://klobuchar.senate.gov/emailamy.cfm http://cornyn.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?p=ContactForm and http://coons.senate.gov/contact/ to start. I am in Texas, so I called Cornyn. Slashdot em!

    9. Re:Good - arrest me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's interesting to watch a nation self implode by doing it to itself through bankruptcy and putting everyone in gaol. This is even more entertaining than the fading of the British Empire and the Soviet Union!

      Pass the popcorn!

  2. five years for 10 viewings? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whatever happened to our Constitutional protection from cruel and unjust punishments?

    Is this the new War on Drugs or something?

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    1. Re:five years for 10 viewings? by WrongSizeGlass · · Score: 2

      Whatever happened to our Constitutional protection from cruel and unjust punishments?

      I think the BoR & 8th Amendment says cruel and unusual punishments.

    2. Re:five years for 10 viewings? by MBGMorden · · Score: 2

      The 8th amendment protects against cruel and unusual, not unjust, punishments.

      Have to remember that they weren't too far off of a time when if a ruler didn't like you you very well could be locked in a brazen bull and roasted to death. Simple incarceration isn't considered cruel or unusual and the constitution doesn't really deal with sentence lengths.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    3. Re:five years for 10 viewings? by plunderscratch · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Whatever happened to our Constitutional protection from cruel and unjust punishments?

      Is this the new War on Drugs or something?

      er, I think you allowed successive elected representatives to gradually erode any form of constitutionality in the name of capitalism, which is now being protected by the big corporations who fear that their monopoly may be at risk.

      Drugs and piracy are just bad ok, so please just accept what you are told, do what 'the man' says, be a good citizen and don't forget to inform on your neighbour if you think they are up to no good. They might be terrorists you know!

      --
      Guns don't kill people! Admins do!
    4. Re:five years for 10 viewings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There was a Supreme Court case where they determined that a life sentence without parole for the crime of passing a bad check for $50 was, in fact, cruel and unusual. Don't recall the name of the case off the top of my head. But in general, yeah, sentence length doesn't usually fall under there.

    5. Re:five years for 10 viewings? by stewbee · · Score: 3

      It's not just the time that is ridiculous, but also the fact that it is a felony. A felony is a huge thing to be charged of. It means that you essentially lose your civil rights. You can't vote. Your chances of finding future work will certainly be more difficult, since after all you are a convicted felon.

      Anyone else just getting tired of this crap?

    6. Re:five years for 10 viewings? by Nadaka · · Score: 2

      That is correct, when it becomes cruel and routine, it is no longer unconstitutional. Just see Guantanamo for reference.

    7. Re:five years for 10 viewings? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2

      Whatever happened to our Constitutional protection from cruel and unjust punishments?

      I think the BoR & 8th Amendment says cruel and unusual punishments.

      My bad... I should have RTFC before posting.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    8. Re:five years for 10 viewings? by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      They could wield the threatening power just fine without the government's help. You don't have to have a legitimate case to sue.

      That said, the real problem is that lobbyists are basically writing the laws these days. Our congresscritters can say all they want to about the law not being used in that way. Odds are good that MPAA lobbyists wrote this bill, and that they knew exactly how it could be used and wrote it this way very deliberately.

      Nothing short of an outright ban on paid lobbying can restore democracy to America.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    9. Re:five years for 10 viewings? by Dayze!Confused · · Score: 2

      It is those uncommon uses which gives power to one who wishes to abuse. What may happen is that people get used to nobody doing anything about breaking it, then suddenly they "crack down" on it.
      How about a car analogy. Let's say there is a law outlawing making left turns on Thursday.
              Some people object saying it is ridiculous, that there are justifiable reasons to make left turns on Thursday.
              The lawmakers say they only want this law for a particular case where there are certain intersections where there are a lot of accidents that occurred on Thursday involving people making left turns. The law gets passed.
              In the interim it is hardly enforced, nobody gets arrested for making left turns on Thursday. After a few years there is a political activists wanting to hold a protest on Thursday at a particular destination in which have to make a left turn to get to ( I'm not a civil engineer but let's say for some reason there was no way to make a right turn into it ). In order to stifle this movement the mayor orders the police officers to wait at that intersection and to arrest everyone for making a left turn there, thus getting rid of any protest there may have been.
              There is a large danger in having many laws that are obscure or not largely enforced, they can be forgotten by the masses and then used as a legal weapon by those who know the laws and have an agenda.

      --
      "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." [Thomas Jefferson]
  3. stuff that is not clearly defined. by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    May make it hard for a jury to convict and up to 5 year how many rapist and others will have to go free to make room? And who will pay to keep all that many people locked up? When we can't even find room for the drug offenders.

    1. Re:stuff that is not clearly defined. by mldi · · Score: 2

      May make it hard for a jury to convict and up to 5 year how many rapist and others will have to go free to make room? And who will pay to keep all that many people locked up? When we can't even find room for the drug offenders.

      You haven't been paying attention. Jails are corporate run nowadays, we need more people to put in prison so that the prison corporations can make more money, from billing the government (you and I) and free (slave) labour. No rapists will go free. This is how Stalin built a railroad, it works.

      This kind of reminds me of an episode of Stargate Atlantis. An off-world government would send people to "jail" for any little crime at all, and at the end, just because they felt like it (and made something up). As it turns out, they needed more bodies for the Wraith to feed on.

      Substitude "Wraith" for "Corporations" and this totally fits with your scenario.

      --
      If you aren't suspicious of your government's actions, you aren't doing your job as a responsible citizen.
    2. Re:stuff that is not clearly defined. by Culture20 · · Score: 3, Informative
      http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20034694-504083.html

      (CBS/AP) SCRANTON, Pa. - Former juvenile court judge Mark Ciavarella was convicted in an alleged "kids for cash" scheme that accused him and another judge of sending youth offenders to for-profit detention centers in exchange for millions of dollars in illicit payments from the builder and owner of the lockups. ...

      I see your Stargate: Atlantis and raise you real life.

  4. { . . . } & go to jail. by Tsingi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What it boils down to, is they can send you to jail if they want to. This is just another hook to let the man fuck you over if you not play the game like a good little plebe.

  5. Looking from Europe ... by foobsr · · Score: 5, Funny

    The best solution for the interest groups involved would perhaps be to declare all of the US a jail (with some islands for the privileged).

    This would be a rather elegant way to get rid of the 'constitution' 'legally'.

    CC.

    --
    TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
    1. Re:Looking from Europe ... by Issarlk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      maybe the US could get pointers from North Korea on how to put 200 milions american to work in camps.

    2. Re:Looking from Europe ... by DigiShaman · · Score: 2

      It's been in the works for quite some time now. There's the serf class, and then there's the political class. What's old has become new again. Make no mistake about it. American Exceptionalim is just that; an exception, a brief moment in time against the natural state of mankind. That natural state is oppression against those outside our immediate sphere of associations (read the Monkey Sphere).

      I'm privileged to be born in this era of humanity. Not many get to taste freedom while it lasts.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    3. Re:Looking from Europe ... by sourcerror · · Score: 2

      ... and solve the unemployment problem all at once ... genious ...

    4. Re:Looking from Europe ... by X86Daddy · · Score: 2

      They kinda already did... there's a 100 mile radius of all "border crossings" that's considered outside of Constitutional protections, so the north border, the south border, the coasts, and everywhere close enough to an airport, and the government has declared it can violate its founding document there. The courts upheld challenges to this. Here, found it: http://www.aclu.org/national-security_technology-and-liberty/are-you-living-constitution-free-zone

      La-and of the Freeee, and the Ho-ome of the Brrrraaaaave.

  6. 9viewsonly.com by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    is the name of the video site I'm going to launch!

  7. The supporters are Lying by Lumpy · · Score: 2

    IF they are not Lying, then change the bill to close that loophole.

    If they refuse to then they are bold faced liars. It really is as simple as that.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  8. Why stop there? by Yaddoshi · · Score: 2

    Soon they'll be pressing charges against us for infringing on their intellectual property by thinking about the movie we just watched after we leave the theater without paying some sort of license to do so.

    I mean really - they're gonna ruin some kid's life because the kid misused an embed tag? Really? Doesn't the "Justice" system have a better way to use their time and spend our tax dollars? Clownshoes.

  9. How did I allow it? by tepples · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think you allowed successive elected representatives to gradually erode any form of constitutionality

    How did I allow it? A lot of these bills became law before I became old enough to vote, and most of the time since then, the candidate for whom I voted lost the election.

  10. Express your view by bhengh · · Score: 3

    Let your representatives know what your view is here: https://www.popvox.com/bills/us/112/s978

  11. Re: & go to jail. by kent_eh · · Score: 2

    So if everything is already illegal, and everyone is already guilty of something, then it doesn't really matter what I do. They'll arrest me when they decide it's my time.

    Meanwhile, I can do whatever I want.

    Cue Bart Simpson laugh...

    --

    ---
    "I can't complain, but sometimes still do..." Joe Walsh
  12. Grow a pair and call for a boycott by jkinney3 · · Score: 2
    I am astounded that the /. crowd has not been calling for an absolute boycott of ALL media from ALL labels who sign on to these kinds of bills.

    Put down the mp3 player and streaming video toys and pick up an instrument. If you want entertainment, get creative and make your own. Then you can do all the sharing you want with content you make.

    Like it or not, whining about "they are taking away my perceived rights" on /. will have no effect on the people who are writing this legislation. But if the people who are supposed to be paying for this content all say loudly in one voice "Your content is crap and I don't want it" and then grow a pair and stick to their convictions and DON'T WATCH THE CONTENT FROM THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BACKING THIS LEGISLATION IN ANY FORM, the loss of 10-20 million viewers will have an impact the longer it keeps up. The only language those people understand is cash. They think they are getting less than they deserve so they buy votes. We outnumber them so remind them they exist because we allow them to. It's not like your life will end if you don't hear/view the latest "thing".

    Besides, if /. started looking around and something other than the media content this is about, you might notice there's a lot of stuff that geeks can do to keep crap like this from expanding.

    Walk away. Nothing to see here. Literally

    1. Re:Grow a pair and call for a boycott by uglyMood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem with this line of thinking is that any loss of revenue is immediately attributed to piracy, regardless of the facts. Case in point: the music industry. They've mostly been putting out autotuned garbage for the past 15 years, and when sales slumped because nobody wanted to pay twenty bucks for identical vocals that sound like they come out of a kazoo it was blamed on those darned music pirates. The entertainment industry needs piracy to cover for the fact that it's cheaper to produce utter crap no one wants than to produce quality work. A few arrests here and there merely reinforce the illusion that piracy is having a major impact on their sales.

      --
      "No matter where you go, there you probably are." -- Buckaroo Heisenberg
    2. Re:Grow a pair and call for a boycott by DreadPiratePizz · · Score: 2

      "DON'T WATCH THE CONTENT FROM THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BACKING THIS LEGISLATION IN ANY FORM" It's not that cut and dry. I work in the movie industry, and my union asked me to support the legislation. I wrote back and not only declined to support it, but actively opposed it. So sure. Don't watch my stuff just because SOME of the people working on it don't agree with you. How about you watch what you like, and oppose the laws with your representative?

  13. So I've been thinking by dyingtolive · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've been thinking about these kinds of problems that plague civilization when corporations have a louder voice than humans, and are able to manhandle laws into doing everything they can to keep the plebs in their places. The problem to me appears to be that corporations are completely amoral, and dedicated toward doing absolutely whatever it takes to make as much money as possible. They do this due to their obligations to the shareholders. I'm going to pause along this train of thought to abuse the corollary: Somewhere along the line, "The customer is always right", transformed into, "the shareholder is always right."

    Basically what I'm getting at here is that I now believe that in order to effect change, the only way to proceed is to play their same game against them. I propose creating a holdings company, getting it classified as a NPO, and then using donations generated by those interested in the lofty goals of the organization to purchase stock in the companies that are causing the problems. Any and all dividends made from the stock would go toward operational costs of the organization itself, and any surplus would go toward purchasing additional stock. The purpose of this is to be able to try to lobby within the stockholder's meetings with the stockholders themselves, and at worst case and assuming that the organization has enough stock to do so, threaten to tank the company by liquidating the stock for pennies. I'm no market analyst, but I'm pretty sure that it would play havoc with all the automated trading systems were a couple thousand shares of stock to be put out there for 1% of the current asking price.

    Anyway, I thought I'd leave this here, figuring that if anyone was cynical enough to be able to shred this to pieces, it'd be Slashdot. Obviously, it has flaws. I'm no genius, and it was just something that came to me the other day, so I've hardly spent much time considering it.

    --
    Support the EFF and Creative Commons. The war is coming, and they're supporting you...
  14. Absurd by guttentag · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Consider This Scenario

    I want my friend to see a really funny movie from 20 years ago, but they're not convinced it's worth their time. I search YouTube and I find a video of some highlights, so I send my friend the link to the video. I assume the clips fall under fair use because otherwise YouTube would have pulled them, right?

    My friend watches the video, likes it, goes down to the store and buys the DVD and thanks me for introducing him to it.

    The MPAA "piracy squad" spends all its time searching YouTube for copyrighted videos. It sues YouTube for its records, the logs show that I used their "share" feature to share the link with one person, and that person watched the video twice. The piracy squad watches the video 8 more times and then sicks its lawyers on me. Since I did indeed link to the video, and it was watched 10 times, I am guilty and convicted of a felony. I lose the ability to vote, the ability to work at many jobs, the right to possess firearms, ammunition and body armor, eligibility for welfare, eligibility for federally-funded housing, and the right to serve on a jury. I no longer have any influence in society and am reduced to flipping burgers by day and scanning retail inventory by night to scrape together enough money to live, which presumably keeps me sufficiently occupied to stay out of trouble.

    Meanwhile, the MPAA gets a fee from the sale of the DVD that my friend would never have bought otherwise, they tip the balance of power in government further toward themselves by taking one more voter out of commission, and they strike fear in the hearts of anyone who even thinks about doing anything with video. The only previews you will get to see are the ones they force you to watch every time you pop in a DVD you bought from them.

    Perhaps we could counterbalance this bill by adding language that makes it a felony to disable the FFWD or MENU button on a consumer's remote control. It's at least as criminal an act as linking to some YouTube video: millions of people are forced to watch 30 seconds to 5 minutes of previews every time they want to watch the movies they paid to "own" in their own homes. Sure, you could pop the movie in 5 minutes before you're ready to watch it, but the amount of productivity and electricity this needlessly wastes on a global scale is staggering. That's criminal.

  15. now you get to pay to protect their profits, too! by LordofWinterfell · · Score: 3, Insightful

    By making this a criminal instead of civil issue - its not about locking you up - its about getting the government to prosecute copyright infringements instead of the corporation.

    By making linking into a criminal law, now largescale content owners can harness the raw power of the taxpayer dollar - the governement is now the plaintiff, and government laywers are prosecuting on behalf of the corporations. Just like they have done with IP and piracy, by linking their profit protection to criminal matters (the Pirates are stealing our product and selling it on the streets!) they get to defray the costs of protecting their profts, and sic the government on anything they don't want to see happening, like sharing passwords or sharing content, when they could be making profits off of those interactions.

    --
    Winter is Coming.
  16. Re:"We've seen other laws 'misused' in the past"? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 2

    If the "it will only be used against the bad guys" excuse is sufficient, then why make such detailed laws at all? Just make a law stating "you can be thrown into prison for any reason" and assure everyone that it will only be used against the bad guys.

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  17. Friedman vs Freeman by Calsar · · Score: 2

    This is a clasic issue of business ethics and Friedman vs Freeman is typically cited. In "The Social Responsibility of Business Is to Increase Its Profits" Friedman argues that companies should act in their own self interest and the interest of their share holders. Social issue are only a concern if they are in the self interest of the company. Freeman presents an almost diametrically opposing view in his article "A Stakeholder Theory of the Modern Corporation". Freeman's view is that companies have responsibility to benefit all stakeholders which includes employees, shareholders, vendors, and society in general.

  18. Re:Government involvement by bws111 · · Score: 2

    Why does the government get involved in auto theft? Why does the government get involved in fraud? Why does the government get involved in assault? Why does the government get involved in trespassing? Do you want to be responsible for the full cost of tracking down and prosecuting someone who committed any of those crimes against you?

  19. Now I gotta give it up by Blackbrain · · Score: 2

    So a Rick Roll is a federal crime?

    --
    Where would we be if Wheel had hid her round rock in a cave instead of showing everyone how it rolls?