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Solar Powered Laptops
smitty777 writes "Greentech is running a story on a solar powered laptop concept. The device was created by industrial designer Andrea Ponti, and includes a solar panel on the outside of the case as well as one below the keyboard. The idea seems to be taking shape; Samsung has a design they've been developing as well."
Seriously, solar cells get hot, and laptops themselves have enough trouble from getting hot, I'm curious as to how bad the hit is going to be in terms of device durability.
I don't take my laptop outside and I live in a dark room, like any nerd.
not to metion solar laptops have been done. all you need is like 150watt panel and a inverter. plenty to power a netbook add a battery and enough for the entire night as well.
So does this mean that my porn habit has to be fed during the day, and out doors? Kinky...
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Why not put solar panels on E-ink based e-readers? You have Amazon et al. bragging about their battery life, but if you put a solar panel on the things you'd never need to charge them.
but not solar power laptop has been made commercially available. I would luv one.
I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have used my laptop in a sunny location.
I would do it all the time if my screen weren't glossy, and used to when my screen was matte....
So now I have to add "spend time outside in sun" to my calendar.
sysadmins and parents of newborns get the same amount of sleep.
Because Laptop screens are SO awesome in direct sunlight and everyone uses computers outside!
Never say never. Ah!! I did it again!
Sun -> heat -> Dead batteries.
why charge it in the sun if you'll end up having 10 minutes autonomy after 1 month?
Whats the deal with that, the matte finish used to be a selling point of LCD over CRT, but now theyre making LCDs glossy...
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
people LIKE matte finishes better, people are ATTRACTED to shiny screens in the store, so they sell better.
put it down to humans are really not much better than our monkey ancestors
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
It looks rather nice. I want one. A bit off topic, but it sort of reminds me of the PowerBook 1400 solar cell snap on book cover. The top portion of the case could be removed and replaced with a cover of your liking (I think Dell currently does this as well) - someone rather clever came up with a solar cell that you could snap on and it wouldn't be "extra hardware".
voilà
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
this is a case where we need to keep certain manufacturing jobs overseas and far away from the U.S.
doesn't it seem like this is way overdue ? brilliant idea.
This is a concept? This has been around since 1996. Apple's PowerBook 1400 had a removable cover on the lid and a company called Keep It Simple Systems made a solar panel for it.
You can see how successful it was because they're ubiquitous now.
When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
Since this solar laptop is for use in sunlight, there's no need for a powered backlight for the LCD display. Use the sun, that's what it's there for.
Providing some shade for the viewing side of the display would help contrast.
Heck, use a reflective LCD screen. No need for silly backlighting arrangements.
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All these comments comparing calculators to laptops...
- Have you ever felt a calculator or MP3 player get hot? Ever come across one that gets so hot that it needs a fan?
- Have you ever felt a laptop get hot? Ever come across a laptop that doesn't need a fan?
- Calculators use so little energy that a small strip indoors is enough to power it. Laptops are still not solar powered because the amount of energy required has so far been too much for solar cells to produce.
My point is that, in terms of heat, laptops and calculators are very different.
Have you ever used a laptop in the sun? I have, when sitting next to a window where the sun shines in. I soon move because the laptop gets uncomfortably hot. I don't know how bad that heat is for my laptop, but it's considerable, and I think it might be too much for the little fan, so I'm not about to test it.
Summary: In terms of energy use and heat... Laptop != Calculator
Now all the morons on slashdot will collectively go after their weird logic on sunlight, heat and other tangents. Granted sunlight is the most efficient way to charge, however indoor lighting however inefficient can still change. So it's a good thing to have. I guess all the morons who posted about solar porn watching sit around in the dark watching porn all day.
Yes, laptops should standardize on some sort of power connector, and they should sell detachable solar panels, that you can move to your new laptop when you upgrade after some years.
But, a solar-powered laptop will have a big advantage: you'll be able to charge it in places where you don't have access to electricity. This of course does not negate the points in the previous paragraph.
I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
Considering how well most laptops work in the sunlight, does this mean that you can either power it or see what's on the screen?
Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
I have a friend from Carnegie Mellion University working for a Chinese upstart solar company
Whatever you have to say against China, their low wages mean they might be able to crack the cost/efficiency ratio if they make it cost really cheap.
And all sorts of good things happen when you do this... Anyone with any visionary blood in them knows what this means. Solar panels everywhere, energy on the cheap. Transportation doesn't cost gas money... Water and food is cheaper... etc etc...
You don't got to agree with me here, but an environmentalist says to conserve energy, but maybe if you cause more demand we can move into an era where we have energy surplus sooner.
God spoke to me.
Solar panels take 8-10 years, in direct sunlight in most ideal locations available to simply produce the energy required to manufacture them in the first place (maybe a year less in a desert).
"Energy payback estimates for rooftop PV systems are 4, 3, 2, and 1 years: 4 years for systems using current multicrystalline-silicon PV modules, 3 years for current thin-film modules, 2 years for anticipated multicrystalline modules, and 1 year for anticipated thin-film modules (see Figure 1)." -- says the US Department of Energy. They cite references, too.
About 1992, a coworker and I seriously looked into doing a solar-powered laptop charger. The idea was going to be something that would either attach to the back of the lid, and/or detach and sit someplace convenient. Yes, I know there are solar trickle-chargers for things like boat batteries; but that's not the point.
When you start looking into this, you will soon find out that PV cells suck so incredibly hard that, unless you live someplace like Arizona, that the rated output of a typical PV cell, which is almost always rated at "1 standard sun" (I kid you not! It's a real unit-of-measure), is so far below that number, that you end up having to have something that folds-out like the solar-cell arrays on Skylab.
Yes, PV cells have gotten a little better since 1990, and there are some mobile CPUs that are better on current consumption than what was available at that time, too; but not enough to matter in either case; because so many people live in areas where their average sun exposure is closer to 0.5 Standard Sun, and they will never even get close to 1 Standard Sun's worth of solar energy.
It's a great idea; but it needs a real breakthrough to make it practical.
The capital energy cost of manufacturing can always be produced by clean, abundant nuclear power.
A laptop with a crank makes more sense. Cheaper. More reliable. Maybe add a bit of solar just to top things off on a sunny day.
This reminds me of the famous Chinese initiative (in Mao's times) when they made iron in every backyard, in small kilns. The process was very inefficient and produced metal of poor quality, nearly useless.
We don't run our own electric generators in our homes (except in emergencies.) We instead buy electric energy that is produced elsewhere. We don't want to order coal or gas, we don't want to subject our homes to endless inspections, and we don't want to invest into boilers and turbines and generators.
But this initiative does exactly that - it tries to deploy millions of tiny and inefficient solar panels into places where they are at most risk of damage, and at least value in terms of the sunlight. Whatever you say, laptops spend most of their life either on desks or in backpacks. Unless you are a student who works outdoors (because it's impossible to work in your room due to some scheduled orgy) you virtually never take the laptop outside. It's insecure; it's inconvenient; it may be raining; a bird may decide to land on it, with the obvious end result; there are millions of reasons why laptops typically stay indoors.
If you want to build a solar power plant then do so, using the most appropriate components and placing the solar panels where they do the most good. It involves careful selection of the site and the proper orientation of panels.
But perhaps a few starry-eyed Gaia worshippers with too much money will buy a couple of laptops with solar panels built in. The rest of Gaia worshippers should instead invest in proper solar plants that use the energy grid of the whole country as their "battery." These fixed plants will be more efficient, and they can deliver power to everyone, not just to people who bought these laptops. I have a 6 kW setup that feeds unused power back into the grid.
Extra heavy.
Only useful in the situations where you least need a laptop.
More fragile.
Why not just create a bloody bike-laptop which you have to cycle on to use.
Would be about as practical.
And look at how out of date that document you linked is. It's notably less now. Some of the thin-film manufacturers are now talking 3-6 months.
I just invaded Grammar Czechoslovakia and duped Grammar Neville Chamberlain; now it's on to Grammar Poland.
I may of course be completely wrong and maybe it is in fact possible in countries that have a lot of sun I've a feeling I'd be wasting my money in the UK. I still like the idea of having a self sufficient power source I just don't think the technology is there yet.
Those are costs, and likely subsidized ones.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Blimey, 2004 -- I didn't even see that. I must have a trawl for some more recent studies when I get the time...
Detachable with a decent length of cable, or a dock you can put your battery in to charge it...
I could leave a solar panel on the dashboard of my car all day, but i wouldn't leave a laptop there or its likely to be stolen. Anywhere you could leave a solar panel to charge is by definition out in the open, and would be an attractive target for thieves.
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Only nuclear isn't very popular right now, so countries are actually shutting down nuclear plants rather than building more...
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There's no need to have a fast, high powered solar laptop if the goal is just to have a solar laptop.
And there's no need for a laptop that actually works when you can make one out of cardboard.
As for solar-powered laptops, there are elegant solutions out there already but they are pricey.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
I bought a Samsung NB30 to try out Pixel Qi's daylight-readable screen, and have been very impressed with Samsung's engineering. Since the display enables me to carry the NB30 everywhere, it's taking quite a beating. Fortunately, it has a waterproof membrane undr the keyboard, a feature I've accidentally tested with many spills. The drive automatically parks, so the several times I've dropped it has not done more than break small pieces off of the case. This is one tough little PC.
Right now, my biggest limitation is being tethered to a power outlet. If Samsung can deliver truly mobile, continously replenished power, that would be a breakthrough technology everywhere, not just in Africa.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
My laptop screen is matte, and it's still pretty hard to see in direct sunlight. I'm looking forward to getting a machine with a Pixel Qi display in a few months - give me something that can run vim and be visible in direct sunlight, and I can work in the park...
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Beyond any battery life, this is a MASSIVELY ANTI-GREEN laptop. It is more "Green" to run your laptop from the most polluting coal powered station you can find, than to buy this laptop!
Solar panels take 8-10 years, in direct sunlight in most ideal locations available to simply produce the energy required to manufacture them in the first place (maybe a year less in a desert). A laptop solar panel will NEVER recoup the energy required to produce it, never mind the actual laptop components.
This is the most polluting and wasteful concept ever possible.
This is aside any other downside of direct sunlight + computer screen.... :S
Wish I had mod points left. You are EXACTLY correct.
My Powerbook 1400c had one back in 1998. The panel slid off the laptop and could be mounted on the window of a plane with it's nifty suction cups.
Sounds like a great idea!
The only problem is that laptop manufacturers employ an infinite diversity of batteries and infinite variations of power connectors.
I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
doesn't it seem like this is way overdue ? brilliant idea.
It's been tried repeatedly. The problem has always been that, with available solar panels, computers, and displays, the laptop doesn't have enough area by a LARGE factor to collect as much power as it uses. It also doesn't present its surface to the sun very well when in use. About the best you could get is a laptop you could leave in the sun all day to charge enough for a few minutes use. (Want to leave it unattended that long?)
Further, more crunch has been the target for a long time and that requires more power than less crunch at the same silicon fabrication technology level. A lot of people have not wanted their laptops to be several-generations-back stupid. Improvements in run time have been driven more by improved batteries that store more power and hacks to turn parts of the machine off or down to slower running when not in use than by actual improvements in watts per crunch (though the latter has been worked on as well - beyond the desktop "keep it from melting as you make it faster and smaller" target.)
And then there's radio-based networking to eat more power. If you can't be bothered to plug in the charger you certainly don't want to find a network jack. And if you're out in the boonies with no outlets (or even in a city park) you're probably far enough from the wireless networking access point that the transmitter has to be running at the high end of its power range.
With new high-efficiency panels, low-power processors, e-ink displays (which only use power to change, not to sustain or to backlight) or LED backlighting, and a leveling out of the demand for crunch when just browsing non-animated web sites, editing documents, or the like, a low-capability machine that's fully solar powered may be coming into reach.
Or at least for people in perpetually-sunny areas who are willing to expose themselves to the thermonuclear cancer-generator in the sky for hours per day. And it might be useful in disaster scenarios (though I really don't want lives to depend on it not running down in a crunch).
But I think we're still far from on that is practical for most usage scenarios.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
energy payback not, not money back, you can not subsidise the former you paranoid anti government fool
The article says "could become the greenest laptop ever made". I'm pretty sure it's not. While such a laptop might be convenient in certain situations, its lifetime is way too short for the EROI of the solar cells to become even near positive, even if left permanently in the sun.
0x or or snor perron?!
I have nothing against the government subsidizing it, however it is very unlikely that total energy spent on a modern panel (including all steps in production, from mining to transportation) are going to be recovered with few kilowatts running 6 hours a day for a few months or even years.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Thin film panels are a couple milligrams (if that) of solar material on top of a thin sheet of glass, plastic, or aluminum. There's not much energy at all put into making them. The challenges they face are not energy, but throughput.
I just invaded Grammar Czechoslovakia and duped Grammar Neville Chamberlain; now it's on to Grammar Poland.
Do you have any idea how much energy it takes to produce aluminum alone?
Or to make the whole sandwich with given parameters?
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Bulk structural aluminum? A ton.
Aluminum foil? Basically none.
I just invaded Grammar Czechoslovakia and duped Grammar Neville Chamberlain; now it's on to Grammar Poland.
Detachable with a decent length of cable, or a dock you can put your battery in to charge it...
I could leave a solar panel on the dashboard of my car all day, but i wouldn't leave a laptop there or its likely to be stolen. Anywhere you could leave a solar panel to charge is by definition out in the open, and would be an attractive target for thieves.
All day on the dash...
It would be stolen way too quickly.
Laptop bags and back packs are dark places.
However anything that can increase the apparent battery life
and make a demand for low power displays and sane web
site design is a good thing. Combine with some of the new ultra
capacitor technology and improved thermal and power management
and we could see a bit of a resolution.
This is especially so for the tablets and the likes of Kindle and Nooks...
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
Do you have any idea how much energy it takes to produce aluminum alone?
As for aluminum the average Coke and Pepsi consumer generates enough
empty aluminum containers to recycle into a very sturdy frame for
a laptop. In addition aluminum can be used to good effect for thermal
management. Carbon fiber not so much.
A lot of marketing folk are missing the opportunity to design and sell a
sturdy long battery life system as they quest for a "light as
air" thin as a children's book computer.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.