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Japan Doubles Fukushima Radiation Leak Estimate

DrBoumBoum writes "The severity of the Fukishima disaster continues to go up, from incident level 4 to level 5 to level 7, and now to 20% of total Chernobyl radioactive spill. The story is not over yet as the plant keeps on leaking radioactive material and may still do so for a long time."

20 of 251 comments (clear)

  1. Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Me irradiate you long time.

  2. Nuclear Hologram. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Fools. The lot of them. Trying to hide the real nature of this accident has undermined nuclear power technology greatly.

    1. Re:Nuclear Hologram. by Jawnn · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fools. The lot of them. Trying to hide the real nature of this accident has undermined nuclear power technology greatly.

      Yeah, 'cause nuclear power has always been such a good idea. Right? I mean the fucking inevitableirresponsible behavior from profit-driven plant operators has never been a significant problem. Right?

    2. Re:Nuclear Hologram. by hedwards · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's only inevitable when you cut down on regulatory authority to satisfy the whack job libertarian lobby. All forms of energy have possible downsides to them, and some of them can be catastrophic in nature, hardly seems fair to single out the nuclear energy industry when the oil industry has more or less led us to the brink of disaster and wants to keep leading into the abyss.

    3. Re:Nuclear Hologram. by discord5 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Japan has no whack job libertarian lobby.

      They have Toyama Koichi who tries to overthrow the government by running in the elections, smile doctor Mack Akasa, oh and Yuya Uchida with his love ando peacu movemento. I think it's safe to say they have enough whack job politicians to be sure that some get elected, just like any other country.

      There's more videos on youtube if you do a little searching on the political broadcasts for the elections, but most of 'm aren't translated.

      Have fun

    4. Re:Nuclear Hologram. by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All forms of energy have possible downsides to them, and some of them can be catastrophic in nature, hardly seems fair to single out the nuclear energy

      Well few other energy sources make an area completely unlivable for decades or centuries when they fail.

      Oil/coal have operational pollution issues, but they don't have catastrophic failure issues. Yes the Gulf Oil spill was a sort of catastrophic event, but even oil is eaten by microbes. The downsides are limited to a decade or so...and life continues there even during this time. Not great but not nearly on the scale of a nuclear accident.

      If humans are involved in design, construction or operation, failures will happen. With nuclear, failure is not an option. 100,000+ people in Japan are permanently homeless. At least it's a foreshadowing for when the oceans rise and 10s of millions of people need to be relocated.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    5. Re:Nuclear Hologram. by DarkOx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually no, as a Libertarian I don't think you get neuclear power at all. These things only get built with subsides and loan grantees, that we don't support. The free market does not build these.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    6. Re:Nuclear Hologram. by BlueParrot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well few other energy sources make an area completely unlivable for decades or centuries when they fail.

      Sea level rise from global warming is expected to flood some densely populated areas. Increased temperatures will make some currently hospitable areas inhospitable, and turn land presently viable for agriculture worthless. These changes are likely to be irreversible for thousands of years at the very least, possibly indefinitely, and the problems occur globally, not just within the closest few kilometers of the power plants.

      There is very little doubt that the cost of adapting to the consequences of our greenhouse gas emissions will vastly exceed even the worst outcome of nuclear accidents. Yes, that includes Chernobyl. You can't declare the entire world an exclusion zone when it's the global climate you're messing up.

    7. Re:Nuclear Hologram. by DDLKermit007 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      WTH? Do you actually know anything about Japan? This is THE most real estate scarce country. Geothermal eats tons of realestate for the numbers it generates among other problems. Japan's solution IS the fission option. They need electricity, and boatloads of it. Most of the way people even get around that country comes from the gobs of elecricity the reactors produce. Plus really, if you knew a damn thing about spent material, the issue is finding another plant to reprocess it & use it because the current gens have been around 50+ years and wern't made with that in mind. Problem is, wackjobs stop the new reactors from going online so they can munch on the fuel you moan about sitting around. Truly spent fuel has very little radioativity left and thus, less of the need for difficult storage.

      Hell, if you really wanna split hairs, the US? F-tons of weapons grade material laying around that HAS to be stored, or used, not to mention is aging. Which means the enclosures around them are going to crack eventually. Those material need to be used till the levels go down, and becomes a simpler task to store. But hey, I already know theres no changing your mind. Too much kool-aid has been drank on your part.

    8. Re:Nuclear Hologram. by AlienIntelligence · · Score: 3, Insightful

      As for TFA...well...what did anyone expect?

      The truth... immediately.

      If you look that evening as a press conference was being
      made, the prime minister is talking about the quake, about
      the tsunami... everything is fine.

      Then he starts about the nuke plant and is just blatantly
      lying his ass off. I posted about it here and on my Facebook.

      If anyone is good at microexpressions and visual accessing
      cues, watch the very first press conference.

      They knew... THAT DAY... that it was worse than they were
      disclosing.

      So, to answer what did anyone expect? MORE OF THE TRUTH!

      -AI

      --
      For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion
    9. Re:Nuclear Hologram. by mcvos · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As for TFA...well...what did anyone expect? Wasn't that like the WORST tsunami and earthquake recorded there in like 100 years? You can only design structures that will last to a reasonable degree. I mean does anyone think if we had a quake the size of the great San Francisco quake close to one of our reactors shit wouldn't get broke? Hell what do you think the damage would be if a tsunami that size hit chemical row in the gulf?

      It's a matter of risk management. In 1953, Netherland had a huge flood. After that, we started upgrading our coastal defenses, with the goal that a flood of that scale could only occur once in 10,000 years. 10,000 years is a pretty long time. On a human scale, it basically translates to "never", but as you know, you can never have 100% security, so we have to accept that the rare freak storm/high tide combination that occurs maybe once every interglacial period, might cause a flood. Everything on our coast is designed with this in mind.

      In Japan, not so. A few years ago the IAEA gave Japan a warning that several of their coastal reactors were not safe enough. Fukishima was one of them. It may have been the worst earthquake/tsunami of the century, but centuries are not rare. If you expect your nuclear plants to operate for several decades, then you need to design them to withstand even the rare once-in-a-century freak earthquake+tsunami. They didn't.

      Know what the dangers are, know what risks you're willing to face, and design for it.

  3. 20% of chernobyl's radiation. by ravenshrike · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To anybody with even a remote understanding of nuclear physics that number means absolutely nothing. What matters, especially for long term effect, is the form of radiation. Which the article of course doesn't mention.

    1. Re:20% of chernobyl's radiation. by Kenja · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well at Chernobyl we only got giant earth worms, nothing on the same level of the moth and lizard mutagens from the Japan incident.

      --

      "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    2. Re:20% of chernobyl's radiation. by publiclurker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      To anybody with even a remote understanding of human behavior, the words of the people in charge of Fukushima mean absolutely nothing.

  4. Re:"But but but" blah blah. by gweihir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What I am most angry about is that all the promises of "cheap" go right out the window with the observed accident rate and costs. None of the numerous promises about reactor safety even remotely resemble the truth. To me the whole nuclear industry is a scheme to transfer huge amounts of money into certain pockets.

    That they cause a lot of deaths and a completely unsolved long-term waste storage problem, which will increase cost even further (but for future generation and who cares about them) is just the icing on the cake.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  5. Nuclear reactions are still occuring at Fukushima by Required+Snark · · Score: 3, Informative
    There is ongoing self sustaining fission at Fukushima according to multiple sources: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/06/guest-post-are-nuclear-reactions-still-occurring-at-fukushima.html

    Today, Tetsuo Matsui at the University of Tokyo, says the limited data from Fukushima indicates that nuclear chain reactions must have reignited at Fuksuhima up to 12 days after the accident.

    As Time Magazine blogger Eben Harrell pointed out on March 30th:

    The IAEA has said that the Fukushima nuclear power plant may have achieved re-criticality. “There is no final assessment,” IAEA nuclear safety director Denis Flory said at a press conference on Wednesday, according to Bloomberg News. “This may happen locally and possibly increase the releases.”

    Arnie Gunderson says as of June 3rd:

    Unit 3 may not have melted through and that means that some of the fuel certainly is lying on the bottom, but it may not have melted through and some of the fuel may still look like fuel, although it is certainly brittle. And it’s possible that when the fuel is in that configuration that you can get a re-criticality. It’s also possible in any of the fuel pools, one, two, three, and four pools, that you could get a criticality, as well. So there’s been frequent enough high iodine indications to lead me to believe that either one of the four fuel pools or the Unit 3 reactor is in fact, every once in a while starting itself up and then it gets to a point where it gets so hot that it shuts itself down and it kind of cycles.

    Another recent post points out:

    Radiation levels in water inside the silt fence near reactor 2 are high and rising, despite large amounts of dilution. Continued very high levels of Iodine 131 with a half life of 8 days are very hard to explain for a reactor that has been “shut down”. Normally Iodine levels would drop several orders of magnitude below cesium activity levels over the sixty day period shown in the graph, but instead they continue to track each other. The level of 10,000 Bq/liter I-131 is very problematic. It is much higher than would be expected for a reactor in cold shut down for 2 1/2 months.

    The situation at Fukushima is not stable and in fact the danger is increasing. The stopgap cooling by injecting tons of water into the reactors and fuel rod storage is creating a massive burden of highly radioactive water that is a storage and disposal nightmare. There has been some limited success in providing recirculation cooling to the spent rod pool for unit 1, but that has a modest effect on the radioactive water situation.

    The plan to reduce radioactivity in existing water and recirculate it for cooling is still in process. It is not clear if the capacity of this system will be able to keep up with current cooling needs, much less deal with the backlog. If the reactors and fuel storage are generating new radioactive material, the cleanup system is even less likely to be adequate.

    If there is re-criticality the cleanup becomes that much harder. There is also the possibility of more fires/explosions because of radioactive decay heat sources. Continued earthquakes or typhoons could trigger other large release of radioactive material into the general environment.

    The plant is leaking highly radioactive water right now and this problem is being swept under the rug. There will be a permanent exclusion zone at the plant site. Even worse, the ocean region will have long lasting radiation contamination that will cripple the seafood industry for a large area of the Japanese coast. Things are a lot worse then anyone is willing to admit.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
  6. Re:"But but but" blah blah. by jonbryce · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Is people losing their homes, farms and businesses to a nuclear exclusion zone for the next 300 years not bad enough?

  7. Re:Meltdowns are impossible? by nedlohs · · Score: 4, Informative

    That German AVR reactor is also the most heabily beta-contaminated reactor site on the planet. And it contaminated both the soil and groundwater, and better yet in the form or radioactive dust.

    Melting down is not the only possible problem...

  8. Re:Cliche but nuclear is far safer than anything e by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 4, Informative

    You make a good case, and you probaby would like this book by Bernard L. Cohen that says much the same:
        http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~blc/book/BOOK.html

    Also, at some point, even with meltdowns, we can just site new nuclear plants where the old one melted down. So, Fukushima is now a good place to site more plants, as is Chernobyl, given the evacuations and the grounds are already contaminated. We could also produce synthetic fuels in those areas and ship them elsewhere. And we could build lots of robots to do the work.

    Thorium reactors are even safer and we have much more thorium (thousands of years) than uranium and plutonium (hundred years?) for reactors.. But ironically it is said that thorium technology was not developed in the 1940s and 1950s precisely because it was safer and you could not make bombs from it.

    With all that said, I'm still rooting for stuff like solar roadways, maglev wind, or the Rossi/Focardi eCat.
        http://www.solarroadways.com/
        http://www.maglevwindturbine.com/
        http://pesn.com/2011/05/31/9501837_Cold-Fusion_Number-1_Claims_NASA_Chief/

    Even various forms of hot fusion are looking promising.

    Although solar thermal could have done the job from the 1970s and on. Renewables IMHO have been cheaper than fossil fuels when you consider the externalities like pollution, health impacts, risks, defense costs, and so on.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittle_Power

    One can argue about the externalities from different nuclear options (such as who pays for the permanent evacuation around Fukushima or follow on effects like loss of agriculture or other economic problems in the area). If we do see a nuclear resurgance, it is going to look very different than today's plants (or should).

    Conventional nuclear tends to be fairly centralized which has various political implications in a democracy. Yes there ideas like Hyperion, but they still probably require big central plants to make them and reprocess them. Mainstream nuclear in general requires a higher level of transparency then our society seems capable of on a sustained basis so far. Fukushima is just one more example of that lack of transparency or foresight.

    Still, it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem, as if our society ran off of cheap thorium power, our politics might be better and less short-term if it assumed abundance instead of scarcity.

    The good news is, we have lots of energy options, and the human imagination continues to invent more of them:
        http://www.juliansimon.com/writings/Ultimate_Resource/TCHAR40.txt

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  9. Re:Cliche but nuclear is far safer than anything e by captain_sweatpants · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You make some good points here but I think your arguments would be much stronger if you discuss:

    a) why the nuclear industry has consistently downplayed the severity of the incident at every turn (meltdowns more severe than 'expected', more radiation released than 'expected' - why aren't they honest and releasing worst case figures?
    b) why the industry keeps talking about 'design flaws' instead of acknowledging irresponsible cost/risk management practices
    c) discuss the social and economic impact of displacing 100,000 people and how this factors into the cost of nuclear

    The way the vast majority of nuclear engineers and supporters ignore the negatives and focusing solely on the positives gives me the impression that the industry has a far too narrow focus on certain technical issues and are blissfully unaware of the real and perceived impacts of nuclear technology on the economy and society generally. Before and even after this incident I was a supporter of nuclear energy. However, the industries response to this disaster has pretty much convinced me the industry is incapable of running a nuclear enterprise responsibly.