Slashdot Mirror


Apple Eases Rules For Subscription Apps

pjfontillas writes "Apple has quietly reversed their decision that required publishers who sell content and subscriptions in their iPhone and iPad apps to go through iTunes, with Apple taking a 30% cut. It's not so quiet in the workplace, however, as this news has a pretty big influence on developer workloads. Here at The New York Times our developers breathed a sigh of relief once we realized we don't have try and work around that requirement like The Financial Times did. Apple seems to have been doing much better with their community (consumers and developers alike) recently." Reader imamac notes that Apple has also filed a motion to intervene in the Lodsys patent suit against several iOS app developers that we've been following.

109 comments

  1. Surprising by Wamoc · · Score: 0

    I am pretty shocked at this. Apple seems to be big on money grabbing from everybody for everything lately.

    1. Re:Surprising by alen · · Score: 2

      Financial Times announced a web application and killed their app store subscription app.

    2. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other new Financial Times reader ship plummets.

      Web apps suck!

    3. Re:Surprising by gumbi+west · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, look at the exorbitant fees they are charging for iCloud ($0) and for Lion ($29). It's just ridiculous.

    4. Re:Surprising by SerpentMage · · Score: 0

      Let's see if I charge a gazillion dollars for the hardware I can charge nothing for iCloud and little for Lion. But hey who did that before? Microsoft! You know the evil corporation, yet Apple is all goodness!

      --

      "You can't make a race horse of a pig"
      "No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
    5. Re:Surprising by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 1

      Here is hoping that Apple doesn't screw with its browsers to make HTML5 web apps suck.

    6. Re:Surprising by tgibbs · · Score: 1

      Apple had explicitly suggested that developers who don't like Apple's terms for apps, so I doubt if this was a major factor. But it was always clear that the rules would have to be modified, because as previously formatted, they would have required firms like Amazon, which already had an efficient system for selling content to pay a hefty price for a service that they didn't really need, and a Web Kindle app would not be and adequate substitute for the Kindle app. Forcing the Kindle app off of iOS would have caused a major backlash from consumers who bought Apple products in the expectation that they would be able tom access their substantial Kindle libraries.

    7. Re:Surprising by toriver · · Score: 1

      No, as the HTML 5 proponents say, HTML 5 can do everything native apps can do. Now watch me remake Crysis 2 using the untapped powers of Canvas, SVG and Javascript...

    8. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shhhh, you'll wake them up!

      To be fair, there's much less of these HTML[n] clowns in evidence nowadays - even around here they seem to have given up the ghost, probably just found another lost cause to latch onto.

    9. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's easy. Render the Crysis 2 live stream to canvas ;).

    10. Re:Surprising by AngryDeuce · · Score: 1

      They're only charging $0 if your media is through iTunes. Any other media you may want to store on the cloud will require a $24.99 a year subscription.

    11. Re:Surprising by brainzach · · Score: 1

      Apple changed its policies back because of money too. They realized that this move would damage their reputation and drive developers away from iOS.

    12. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and wait a few seconds for the image on your screen to update. Hang on a mo' here comes frame 2, still looking good!

    13. Re:Surprising by fast+turtle · · Score: 1

      I read the actual Financial Times article about this and they stated the cost savings by going the web app route was 5x what they figured originally. The explanation is that the web app is platform independant, meaning they have only one code base to maintain instead of apps for each and every app store

      --
      Mod me up/Mod me down: I wont frown as I've no crown
    14. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No.

      Web apps suck on that platform because they don't get the same acceleration as the browser itself does. Not my problem.

    15. Re:Surprising by jo_ham · · Score: 2

      Yes, because Win95>98 and 2000 > XP > Vista > 7 were all "updates" right? Not even "service patches".

      What reality do you live in?

    16. Re:Surprising by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's great.... if you charge a gazillion dollars for the hardware. Apart from the Mac Pro, which is overpriced, the hardware is pretty comparable with similar hardware on the "pc" side.

      If you want bottom-of-the-barrel razor-thin-profit-margin junk though, like the lowest end Dell or other cheap machine, then such is life. If you want a decent machine (on either side of the OS spectrum), the prices are comparable - especially recently with increases in the GPU offerings.

    17. Re:Surprising by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      They used to charge for mobile me, it didn't work well, but people paid for it anyways. icloud does the same stuff and more.

      They obviously could have charged for icloud if they wanted to, but they didn't. Keep in mind, I'm arguing against, "Apple seems to be big on money grabbing from everybody for everything lately." I'd say that lately, they are not into that.

      Lion is "just an update"? airdrop, autosave, versions, resume, customizable gestures are all new.

      But isn't airdrop really stupid? Yes, you could do this on any unix box, but it would probably take you about 5 minutes to setup and get working correctly. Even then, other users would have to disconnect from the wifi they were using to connect to your wifi and dl the file and then reconnect. What a pain. Why do that? But here it just works, you stay connected to your wifi and you can use my wifi ftp like service at the same time. Don't hate it because it is beautiful.

    18. Re:Surprising by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      5 GB free, plus all purchased items. It also includes all the capabilities of mobile me which was $99/year.

    19. Re:Surprising by Captain.Abrecan · · Score: 1

      What does windows have to do with what I said? Stay focused. "Cheetah", "Puma", "Jaguar", "Panther", "Tiger", "Leopard", "Snow Leopard" & "Lion" are all the same operating system, and you have to pay for every friggin update. I am trying to say that even $30 is too expensive, when it is just an tiny update. It even looks the same as it used to. Service patches and updates are free from Microsoft, if you want to drag them into it. I never even mentioned them, and I'm pretty sure the jumps in Microsoft's OS's evolve in a wide berth, since the jump from 95 & 98 to 2000 involved going back to the NT architecture, which was changed dramatically for XP and Vista.

    20. Re:Surprising by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      The claim was that apple was charging "everybody for everything." In point of fact, icloud is a thing, and when I use it, I will not be charged. The claim is wrong. QED.

    21. Re:Surprising by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      So windows before 2000 was not just bug fixes, and afterwords is not just new clothes on the same OS? You could have fooled me.

    22. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So basically, Microsoft's Service Packs are $29 on the other side of the fence.

      Got it.

    23. Re:Surprising by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 2

      Yeah between those versions Apple added : iChat, Safari, FileVault, Exposé, Fast User Switching, Spotlight, Dashboard, Quicktime 7, Quicktime X, Automator, VoiceOver, Core Image, Core Video, Rosetta, Time Machine, Spaces, BootCamp, Grand Central, LauchPad, Mission Control, Quartz Composer, etc., etc. But you know, other than that you're right it's the same system.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    24. Re:Surprising by node+3 · · Score: 1

      I am pretty shocked at this. Apple seems to be big on money grabbing from everybody for everything lately.

      Apple doesn't primarily run their Music and App stores as a profit center. They exist to add value to their main products, which are hardware.

      Apple makes more profit overall about every four months than they have made in total revenue from their 30% cuts in all iTunes stores combined since they first opened. And that's before taking into considerations the costs of running, maintaining, improving, etc., their stores, as well as covering the credit card fees, and licensing patents like Amazon's One-Click patent, and Lodsys's patent (which they are now defending their developers against, for no charge).

      This rule change isn't about Apple giving up money, or reversing some sort of "money grabbing" trend, it's about finding a way to keep their product appealing to their customers (the end user) while still encouraging developers to stay aboard. The old rules didn't do the job as well.

    25. Re:Surprising by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Why would they do that? They want people to use web apps. Apple is at the forefront of HTML5.

    26. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, we're just too intelligent to get caught up in your bullshit. We're busy remaking the web while you sit around wondering why everything has passed you by.

    27. Re:Surprising by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Yes, they saved money by only making one app instead of two. They also are leaving money on the table by not giving their consumers what they want.

    28. Re:Surprising by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Because they have to pay the labels and studios.

    29. Re:Surprising by jo_ham · · Score: 2

      I'll just link to the post that already replied to you: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=2228992&cid=36405510

      "What Windows has to do with it" is something called a "direct comparison".

      You are saying "I am trying to say that even $30 is too expensive, when it is just an tiny update. It even looks the same as it used to." - when the "look" of Win 95 to Win 98 didn't change, for example. Not that changing the look entirely needs to happen for an OS to be considered a new version (you're seriously going with that as a legitimate reason? The 2008 and 2009 Ford Fiesta use the same body shell. This means the 2009 one should be free, right?)

      While the look of OS X has remained broadly similar across the versions (ie, they have found a UI that works and don;t see the need to mess with it too much) does not mean that subsequent releases of the OS are merely "software updates". The amount of work and features that have gone into it between 10.1 and 10.6 (and now 7) just don;t bear that out.

      Simply the fact that it looks the same is not a reason to say "lolz it's just a point release and should be free!"

    30. Re:Surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moblie Me was 20 GB of storage space.

    31. Re:Surprising by intheshelter · · Score: 1

      To say those were service patches shows your ignorance and bias. Sell your crazy someplace else!

    32. Re:Surprising by macs4all · · Score: 1

      What does windows have to do with what I said? Stay focused. "Cheetah", "Puma", "Jaguar", "Panther", "Tiger", "Leopard", "Snow Leopard" & "Lion" are all the same operating system, and you have to pay for every friggin update. I am trying to say that even $30 is too expensive, when it is just an tiny update. It even looks the same as it used to. Service patches and updates are free from Microsoft, if you want to drag them into it. I never even mentioned them, and I'm pretty sure the jumps in Microsoft's OS's evolve in a wide berth, since the jump from 95 & 98 to 2000 involved going back to the NT architecture, which was changed dramatically for XP and Vista.

      There are many, many, many changes under the hood in your progression of OS X versions.

      Each year at WWDC, Jobs gets up and talks about al the new features, APIs, and other changes. And yet, because they have kept a relatively consistent look-and-feel, you discount it all as "Service Patches".

      I have something to tell you: This has nothing to do with "Service Patches". Apple pushes those out at a fairly consistent rate, and for free. Always has, always will. Instead, each of these OS updates actually introduce NEW functionality, and lots of it.

      In fact, the one time that wasn't the case, Leopard to Snow Leopard, Apple only charged $29 for a boxed retail copy of the OS. In that case, Jobs got up on stage and said, "This is a maintenance release. There aren't a lot of new features. We're just tightening up some stuff, and getting rid of some legacy cruft (like PPC code). Therefore, we're only gonna charge $29 instead of $129."

      The only reason why they are doing that with Lion is that they are not suffering the costs of actually providing a physical media, and want people to move forward to a 64-bit-clean OS (which is why CoreDuo is not supported).

      But for you to sit there and type that a decade's worth of thousands upon thousands of new APIs are nothing more than "Service Patches", is patently ridiculous.

    33. Re:Surprising by macs4all · · Score: 1

      They're only charging $0 if your media is through iTunes. Any other media you may want to store on the cloud will require a $24.99 a year subscription.

      Ooooo! $25 a fucking YEAR! How moneygrubbing!

      Gimme a break.

  2. Could it be?? by AngryDeuce · · Score: 1

    They're finally realizing that their restrictive practices are a little too restrictive?

    Crazy talk, I know...

    1. Re:Could it be?? by MozeeToby · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Nah, just too fast. They'll back off, wait a few months, then ease in with the same restrictions, maybe with a couple of intermediate steps in between so that people can rationalize it to themselves better. It's the exact same way you avoid outrage while increasing gas prices, removing citizens rights, etc...

    2. Re:Could it be?? by The+Dawn+Of+Time · · Score: 1

      No, what it is is what it has always been. They respond to what they perceive their target market wants. Internet bitching from nerds who hate them isn't really a factor in their strategy.

    3. Re:Could it be?? by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Right, they are "too restrictive". So restrictive, in fact, that iOS is the most popular "app-style" mobile OS. I mean, iOS is just *hurting* for users and developers!

      This isn't a sign that Apple is going to change their overall policy. Their overall policy is working out fantastic for them. This just shows that Apple will do what Apple has always done when something doesn't work out, they'll change it.

      The original purpose of the clause was to make In App purchasing something end users could trust in and use. The purpose of that clause has not changed, but the implementation has changed slightly due to the impact it had on developers.

  3. It's simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In Apples see it as those apps that use Apples in app purchase will be protected from litigation by the License they have with Lodsys. Those apps that roll their own will be open for patent infringement law suit. The choice is simple. Use Apples API or get sued out of business. The choice is theirs.

    1. Re:It's simple by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      Or you can get a license from Lodsys for 0.0575% of revenue and skip the lawsuit.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    2. Re:It's simple by iluvcapra · · Score: 1

      ....And then you can get a letter from Patent Ventures for 0.05% of your revenue to use UI buttons to actuate numerical addition in your app. And then a letter from Intellectual Troll Partners for $30 flat in order to use shake gestures to delete app objects. And then Fraunhofer can ask for 1% because you're encoding an MP3 with Apple's implementation of their codec (sure Apple licensed it, but now that they see you'll roll over, maybe they think that license doesn't apply to phones all of the sudden, and maybe they'd lose but you'd have to go to court over that)...

      The precedent would basically make any kind of 3rd party development on any application platform impossible.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
  4. I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by superwiz · · Score: 3, Funny

    How exactly does a sentence which starts with "here at The New York Times" ends up having two grammatical mistakes in it?

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    1. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Funny

      I can't decide if a grammar Nazi making a spelling mistake on the word "grammar" (as "gramer") is ironic or requires the arrival of spelling Nazis.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      How exactly does a sentence which starts with "here at The New York Times" ends up having two grammatical mistakes in it?

      Sadly, I read the news often (both online and in dead tree format) ... I see an astonishing amount of evidence that even people who work for major news media are slipping in their ability to write properly.

      I see typos, misuse of their/there, and plenty of other things ... I think grammar and spelling seem to be in decline everywhere. Time was, these guys were the ones who really knew the rules of English ... now they've got Microsoft Word to tell them that they've done a good job.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by AngryDeuce · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the shocking amount of using the wrong spelling of a word that slips through anymore, like they're/their/there, then/than, accept/except.

      My English Comp professor used to outright reject papers with more than 2 or 3 errors like this...people complained, but really, how hard is it to proofread something before you submit it? Apparently damn hard...

    4. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      My English Comp professor used to outright reject papers with more than 2 or 3 errors like this...people complained, but really, how hard is it to proofread something before you submit it? Apparently damn hard...

      Well, if the little red squiggle shows up, you typed it wrong, what else it there to know? :-P

      Wee went their too sea if they're was anything two bee scene ... that would pass a spell checker. It's almost gibberish unless you say it outloud and ignore the words as written.

      If you simply don't know that you're using the completely wrong word, proof-reading doesn't get you anything. My English teachers from elementary school would be appalled at things you see nowadays.

      Spelling cunts. ;-)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    5. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by superwiz · · Score: 1

      I don't hold myself to as high a standard on grammar as the standard to which I hold The New York Times.

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    6. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I hope it requires the arrival of more misspelling grammar Nazis, so they all can get stuck in an infinite recursion.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    7. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      And a grammar mistake to boot: "How exactly does a sentence [...] ends up having..."

    8. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are a grammar Nazi, then perhaps you ought to double check your verb conjugation. Try this instead:
      How exactly does a sentence which starts with "here at The New York Times" END up having two grammatical mistakes in it?

    9. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by superwiz · · Score: 1

      The subject of the sentence was the word "sentence." I stand by the conjugation.

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    10. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      You are a disappointment to grammar nazis everywhere. Please turn in your membership card.

    11. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The subject was “sentence”, but the conjugation should be “a sentence does end up” not “a sentence does ends up”, which is what you had.

      The original AC is correct.

    12. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by Ant+P. · · Score: 1

      Sorry, you need to log in to the NYTimes site to access the grammatically correct version

    13. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by dogmatixpsych · · Score: 1

      Because, as you said, grammar Nazis worry about the syntactic structures of sentences but do not necessarily worry about semantics. Spelling Nazis worry about semantics but not syntax. They are overlapping but not completely overlapping categories.

    14. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by superwiz · · Score: 1

      Hmm... Took me another reading, but yes, you and the original AC were right. Although I continue to insist that I hold NYT to a higher grammar standard than myself. I don't make a habit of correcting grammar or spelling, but NYT is a standard-setting institution (or at least they claim to be). Anyone representing them ought to know better.

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    15. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      My favourite one is how journalists, particularly TV reporters, love to talk about people being evacuated. I know it can be hard to control one's bowels when faced with extreme danger but I'm pretty sure that's not what they meant.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    16. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slipping?

      They are in free fall, and have been for some time.

    17. Re:I am not usually a gramer Nazi, but... by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      My favourite one is how journalists, particularly TV reporters, love to talk about people being evacuated. I know it can be hard to control one's bowels when faced with extreme danger but I'm pretty sure that's not what they meant.

      I like The Wire, too, but this little joke was just something they trumped up for TV. Merriam-Webster gives one definition of evacuate as: "to withdraw from a place in an organized way especially for protection." David Simon says he put it into the show as an homage to one of his copy editors who used to give him a hard time about it; nonetheless, the usage is perfectly fine.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
  5. Bravo to Apple on Lodsys by hsmith · · Score: 1

    Google and Microsoft, where are you?

    1. Re:Bravo to Apple on Lodsys by iluvcapra · · Score: 2

      I was aware that Lodsys was also suing Android developers, but what does Microsoft have to do about this right now?

      This actually might be an interesting differentiation strategy -- if Apple can show that it will go to bat for its developers, then Google is obliged to do at least as much, or else Android begins to look unsafe. It's sortof sick (or interesting) to think that a legal team and patent indemnification has now become a part of a computing platform as important as the APIs, the brand and the marketing.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
    2. Re:Bravo to Apple on Lodsys by __aagbwg300 · · Score: 2

      I'd go with "interesting" over sick. If you made alternators instead of software, indemnification would be a necessary part of your business plan to begin with. Software patent litigation is actually only a small part of the field of patent litigation, and despite what you see on slashdot, it's comparatively rare. You average run-of-the-mill patent dispute is much more likely to be about components in a pea-combiner or an x-ray source than it is going to be about the use of a specific codec.

      With that said, if Apple gets in the ring on this one, expect a good fight. Apple, like IBM during the SCO litigation, needs to make an example out of Lodsys. That probably means something a little more spirited than a simple "I'll cover your defense costs." Even money on "an undisclosed settlement" before Lodsys starts writing any more briefs.

    3. Re:Bravo to Apple on Lodsys by CharlyFoxtrot · · Score: 1

      Maybe Google doesn't have a license to the patent in question ? Apple's whole case rests on the fact that they had a cross-licensing deal with the company Lodsys bought the patents from and that prevents developers from being sued for using the technology Apple has built that implements said patent.

      --
      If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error.
    4. Re:Bravo to Apple on Lodsys by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      Maybe Google doesn't have a license to the patent in question ?

      It does, as does Microsoft.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
  6. Android by robertl234 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Having a strong competitor will do the most amazing things :) I'm so glad that Google didn't let Apple achieve the >75% marketshare that they did with the iPods. Can you imagine the iPhone being the only credible smartphone in the market?

    1. Re:Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      iPhone already is the only credible smartphone on the market.

    2. Re:Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My WinPhone7 would like a word with you... but it bricked itself during its last update.

    3. Re:Android by GuldKalle · · Score: 1

      iPhone already is the only credible smartphone on the market.

      Does that make their competitors incredible?

      --
      What?
    4. Re:Android by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because they never improved their iPods!

      The reason Google got into the smartphone OS business is because they want a customer base to sell to advertisers. And in fact, the reverse is true, in terms of the impact of competition. The iPhone made Android what it is today. Android went from a BlackBerry clone to an iPhone clone after the iPhone came out.

      Apple is Apple's best competitor. When, since 1997, has Apple ever just sat around and rested on its laurels?

    5. Re:Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That sounds pretty incredible to me!

    6. Re:Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When did the G1 EVER look like a blackberry or act like one? The current line of android phones look nothing like iPhones. You can purchase an android in all three basic smartphone configuration. The fact that apple thought they could become the toll road of all media is disturbing. Google & Apple are aimed in different directions. Apple is a manufacturer who found a way to sell through their sales. Google is an advertiser. All of google's upgrades are about helping their goal both good & bad. Apple's upgrades are about selling more items. In other words google updates to sell more adverts and apple updates to sell new iWhatsits.

      I'm glad Apple backed down on this matter. It was insulting & in a strange way I would argue Apple really needs magazines than the mags need Apple. The kindle & nook sales back up that idea somewhat.

    7. Re:Android by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Google bought Android before the iPhone was introduced. During Google's development, but before the iPhone was publicly shown, it was a BlackBerry like system, with a keyboard and a standard BlackBerry-like screen that took up the top half of the phone. It didn't have a touch UI. Then the iPhone was introduced, and not long afterwards, Android become just another iPhone clone.

      As for Kindle & Nook being any sort of threat to Apple, that's laughable. I wouldn't be remotely surprised to find out Amazon sells more books to people using the Kindle app for iPad than they do to people with Kindles. And although both would clearly prefer to have people locked into their own devices (it's funny fandroids never seem to complain about those locked-in devices), I'm sure they are quite happy to sell books to iPad owners.

      The fact that apple thought they could become the toll road of all media is disturbing.

      What are you talking about? Apple's iTunes stores are all about selling iPods and iOS devices. These aren't significant revenue streams, and they never will be. Apple makes a *LOT* more selling hardware. Just like Android is a vehicle for Google to sell consumers to advertisers, the iTunes stores are there to get people to buy hardware, and Nook and Kindle are there for B&N and Amazon to sell books.

  7. Protecting their bottom line by sideslash · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm a cynic. I think they decided it would be more profitable in the long run. Android is growing like a weed on phones, and at least has some nifty tablets, even if those sales stink. Windows Phone is getting all the bells and whistles in the fall (even though their sales numbers stink too), and next year Windows 8 will attempt to take on iPad and OS X at the same time with a unified platform.

    Apple has made tons of money already from their mandated royalties, and I think they are just feeling worried and trying to assuage old grudges of their partners in preparation for the next waves of real competition.

    1. Re:Protecting their bottom line by smoot123 · · Score: 1

      Nothing cynical about protecting their bottom line. Virtually everything Apple (or any other company does) has to consider how this affects sales and profits. That's just what companies do: they produce something I like more than I like the money in my pocket. We make a trade, everyone's happy. If they fail, I keep the money, I'm happy, they're out of business.

      The beauty of competition is it forces companies to do things I like even if they're not thrilled about it.

    2. Re:Protecting their bottom line by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      Android is growing? What have you been reading? Not what everyone else is for sure? NO NO... Android has reached saturation.
      I don't understand how people can compare Android (a software product running on VARIOUS phones) be compared to the iPhone (a single product).

      OK, lets compare the OS.... iOS is running on over 75% of hand held devices.
      OK, lets compare web kits. Apples is used in both iPhone and Android.

      Hmmmmmm. Your an Apple hater. Oh thats right. Your scared because the PC share year over year dropped 1%... Apple, for five years in a row grew. This year by 28%? or was it more. I think more...

      Yeah. Your an Apple hater?

    3. Re:Protecting their bottom line by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Apple has made tons of money already from their mandated royalties, and I think they are just feeling worried and trying to assuage old grudges of their partners in preparation for the next waves of real competition.

      Apple makes almost nothing from their 30% cut. And you vastly overestimate the threat Apple faces. The part about Windows 8 taking on the iPad was especially amusing.

      They make their money by selling hardware to their customers. Everything they do is about making their hardware and software more appealing to these very same customers. It's not "cynical" to alter your product to be more appealing.

    4. Re:Protecting their bottom line by sideslash · · Score: 1

      Those are reasonable observations (although I'd love to have a small fraction of the "almost nothing" they've made in profits from their 30% cut). I don't know how well Win8 will perform on tablets. And even if MS is somehow able to offer the full Win8 on lightweight slates with a smooth experience (e.g. not killing batteries), that doesn't mean consumers will flock to the OS+form factor like they have with the iPad. Regardless, it should be a fascinating fight to watch, especially due to MS and Apple taking such dramatically different approaches.

  8. I'm guessing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It'll be a little cold in Hell today.

  9. The devil is in the details by QuasiSteve · · Score: 4, Informative

    Note that the devil is in the details.

    While Apple will

    • no longer require publishers to also sell through iTunes
    • publishers are now allowed to charge more through iTunes if they so desire

    They're still bound to some rules:

    • If a subscription is offered through the app, it must go through iTunes
    • a subscription through iTunes still nets Apple the 30%
    • customer data is still not made available to the publishers (unless the user so chooses, and the data provided in that case is limited)
    • Publishers may not use an UI element (button) that redirects to their own subscription portal

    In other words.. they can offer the subscription elsewhere, but they're not allowed to make it easy for users to pick up said subscription.

    It's still an improvement (for publishers, for users I'm sure the proposed earlier method was already ideal) as publishers can now at least offset the Apple take through price differentiation - but it still has its idiosyncrasies.

    1. Re:The devil is in the details by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know, they've "quietly reversed their decision that required publishers who sell content and subscriptions... taking a 30% cut" Seems like the summary is saying that they're STOPPING the practise entirely. If you hadn't posted your comments, I would have assumed that they didn't do this.

      I guess fanbois will be fanbois.

    2. Re:The devil is in the details by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Publishers will just tell people to subscribe to their mobile formatted website, and maybe provide an app that does little more than frame the HTML. They don't make anything like 30% on their subscriptions so unless users are willing to pay 30% extra over a web subscription... Well, actually I think a fair few users would pay that just to get a special iPad formatted app or something, just because it makes them feel like it is specially for their prized possession rather than a generic web site that dirty Android users can browse too.

      Even Google's 10% is a bit high for the newspaper industry, but you only have to pay it if you want Google to deliver your content. If you host your own data then the usual market fee is all that applies.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:The devil is in the details by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      So far as I can see, placing a button that would open subscription management website in Mobile Safari would conform to the rules. For practical purposes, it's good enough.

  10. Re:Apple == 90s Microsoft? by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

    I think you forgot to read the summary.

  11. Somebody Found the Sanity Token? by sehlat · · Score: 1

    In any company, there's always somebody who has the "Sanity Token" and is
    therefore actually *thinking* about the consequences. Apparently a party or parties
    unknown in corporate finally realized that sodomizing your developer community
    is a massively suboptimal long-term strategy.

  12. Break up Apple by blair1q · · Score: 0

    Apple's gotten too big. It's got a major case of left-hand not knowing what right-hand is doing. It's almost a culture.

    1. Re:Break up Apple by Phleg · · Score: 4, Funny

      Right. Because the one thing we all can agree on about Apple is that it's an unorganized mess without a strong controlling central authority.

      --
      No comment.
    2. Re:Break up Apple by blair1q · · Score: 0

      that is actually how you get right-hand/left-hand problems. lack of distributed connectivity.

    3. Re:Break up Apple by JonJ · · Score: 1

      Whoooosh.

      --
      -- Linux user #369862
    4. Re:Break up Apple by blair1q · · Score: 0

      No, he was being sarcastic. I was disagreeing with him. So suck that back in.

  13. What's the difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's the difference between Apple and their users?

    The latter use lube when they fuck you in the ass.

  14. Microphone and camera in Safari yet? by tepples · · Score: 1

    Let me know when an HTML5 web app running in Safari for iOS can prompt the user to turn on the microphone and camera. Has that feature been added yet?

  15. Break up Apple? On what grounds? by jamrock · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Apple's gotten too big. It's got a major case of left-hand not knowing what right-hand is doing. It's almost a culture.

    Gotten too big? By what arbitrary standard could that be decided? Because you don't like Apple?

    Please give even a single instance of "left-hand not knowing what right-hand is doing" where Apple is concerned. That's about as far from reality as you can get in Apple's case. Not only is their integration working remarkably well for them, but their focus is almost terrifying in it's scope. Everything Apple does informs everything else, from the design of their hardware, software, and retail stores, to the thrust of their advertising and their carefully managed public image. That is their culture, which is diametrically opposed to your assertion. You're really describing Microsoft, with their multiple competing fiefdoms.

    When Apple first announced their guidelines for subscriptions and the publishers protested in outrage, I predicted in a discussion that Apple would change them before they went into effect. I argued at the time that it seemed to me that Apple were merely floating a trial balloon to see how far they could push, and were probably well prepared in advance to exercise some flexibility. This also works for them, because they can then give the public impression that they're prepared to be reasonable, when in fact they had probably planned internally for less stringent terms. As I said, Apple manages their public image with extreme care, and I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised that they pushed their original terms knowing full well that they had no intention of implementing them. In fact I would argue that they would have been surprised if they had been widely accepted.

    1. Re:Break up Apple? On what grounds? by blair1q · · Score: 0

      So because of your fealty to Apple, you refuse to believe that this was a mistake. "Yeah, they meant to do that."

    2. Re:Break up Apple? On what grounds? by jamrock · · Score: 1

      Fealty to Apple? Hahahah! Now you're just being silly. You're presuming to fit my motivations for replying to you into your own skewed little worldview. And you didn't give any plausible grounds on which Apple could or should be broken up, besides your saying so. Wah wah wah! Grow the fuck up.

    3. Re:Break up Apple? On what grounds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting. Someone doesn't agree with you, so he must owe fealty to the organization you criticize. No evidence needed - just attack him, never mind the points he makes.

      He's indulging in a reasoned debate, you prefer ad hominem attacks. How juvenile.

    4. Re:Break up Apple? On what grounds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      get a fucking life yourself. If you had read his comment properly and not become an outraged Apple fanboi, you may have realised he was attempting humour you fucking moron

    5. Re:Break up Apple? On what grounds? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Everything Apple does informs everything else, from the design of their hardware, software,"

      Have you used iOS? The button to COMPOSE is in a different place for mail, messages, notes. The home screen rotates and rearranges icons. On iPad you can't put iPod into shuffle from the main viewlp; must go to NOW PLAYING to view the cover art (which pops up every time you play a song, hiding the song list and MOVING the playback and volume controls.
      Apple's apps are so isolated from each other. Almost no flow to them

  16. Re:Great scam example: Talkatone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Motorola Atrix? Motorola Photon? HTC Sensation? HTC Pyramid?

    You should probably look before asking silly questions. =P

  17. Re:Apple == 90s Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More like Apple == Apple. Throughout their history, they've been hell-bent on proprietary hardware and proprietary software to run on it.

    Now that they have some money and power, watch as they turn into the most egregious iron-fisted jerks you've ever seen.

    At least with Microsoft and the PC, you generally had a little bit of flexibility with the hardware (commodity parts aplenty, at least a few different disk operating systems, Xenix, etc and Linux for the last 20 years), but it's clear that the Apple dream is complete control of an integrated hardware/software stack.

    It's the freaking dark ages of computing all over again.

    Thanks, Apple.

  18. Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  19. Red-hot poker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This brings to my mind something a local comedian said. Forgive me as I paraphrase, translate and tone it down a bit all at once:

    And so they shove a red-hot poker in your arsehole! And you scream and complain until they take it out and replace it with a lighter, the flame licking your arsehole. And you sigh in relief and say "Well, now that's better!"

  20. Apple != 90s Microsoft? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The worst thing about MS was that people ended up buying their products whether or not that's what they actually wanted. Buy a computer and unless you choose carefully, you're another Microsoft sales statistic.

    Apple doesn't have anything like this going on, from what I can tell. (Sure, their software comes preloaded on their hardware, but anyone who buys a Mac knows they're getting MacOS, and in fact very well might be buying it for that reason. Nobody buys a Dell and explains "That was the only way I could get Windows.")

    (The funny thing is that Android, of all things, might end up like that: buy a phone and, by default if you don't think about what you want, you end up with Android. (But there are some differences from the Windows situation, the big one being that Android just plain isn't as unpleasant to use as Windows. And if someone says, "Au contraire, Android sucks pretty bad," I suggest you think back to what Windows was like, especially in the 1990s.))

    The second worst thing about MS was lockin through lack of interoperability. Someone in the office gets MS Word, and it saved everything in a weirdo file kformat by default, so other people needed MS Word. Apple sort of has someanalogous things like that going on, but to a vastly lesser degree.

    Apple is evil, but they're not infiltrating unwitting/unwilling people the way Microsoft did. Nobody's under any pressure to buy Apple products, wondering how they're going to pay their bills unless they give up and become an Apple shop, or begrudgingly starts using Apple stuff because they can't avoid it. With the exception of the patent lawsuits, Apple is mainly only evil to people who like or use their products, and they're not getting in the way of people who have other visions. (Again: except for the patent crap.) To me, that's a world of difference.

    For people who have outside MS influence for the last few years, perhaps it's too easy to forget what a frustrating and destructive scourge Windows was. Apple has the hateful intensity, but barely a percentage of the breadth.

  21. Quietly? Seriously? The Press cracks me up by tyrione · · Score: 1

    The only quiet nature of it is that the Press calls it that due to Apple not broadcasting it's policies as front page news. The Developers all know about it and it didn't sneak up on us.

  22. TFS by fyngyrz · · Score: 1

    "Apple seems to have been doing much better with their community (consumers and developers alike) recently."

    Gee. It's almost like some over-controlling jerk in upper management must be out sick, or something.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  23. Re:Apple == 90s Microsoft? by node+3 · · Score: 1

    More like Apple == Apple. Throughout their history, they've been hell-bent on proprietary hardware and proprietary software to run on it.

    opensource.apple.com

    Apple has even initiated their own open source projects. And their hardware is based on open standards and industry standards, including standards that Apple themselves have made available to third parties.

    You are right, though, that "Apple == Apple", but they are neither completely open, or completely closed. They are user-centric, with a focus on "normal" people. That's the one, main constant at Apple, and also why they are so phenomenally successful. It's also why this "Apple is super-proprietary" or evil or money grubbing, or whatever arguments are so misguided.

    At least with Microsoft and the PC, you generally had a little bit of flexibility with the hardware (commodity parts aplenty, at least a few different disk operating systems, Xenix, etc and Linux for the last 20 years), but it's clear that the Apple dream is complete control of an integrated hardware/software stack.

    The same Microsoft that would hose your bootloader if you installed Windows after installing Linux? And the same Apple that sells Macs with the express capability of running Windows? And which have been able to run Linux for well over a decade?

    It's the freaking dark ages of computing all over again.

    The "dark ages" where more people are able to do more things with their computers (especially Apple computers and devices) than ever before? Oh my, what an awful age we live in!