Best Buy Flexes Legal Muscles Over "Geek"

siliconbits writes "US Electronics retailer Best Buy has been slow but steady in the fight to protect its Geek Squad trademark, but some are wondering whether the 800-lb gorilla of the tech retailing sector is going too far in its war to right some wrongs. The word 'Geek' is a century-old word that used to mean 'fool' or 'crazy,' but has, since the beginning of the 1980s, been associated with fans of technology in general and computers in particular. That hasn't prevented a number of geek-themed companies from being hit by Best Buy's legal team over the last decade, including Geek Housecalls, Rent a Geek, Geek Rescue, Speak with A Geek and, not surprisingly, arch-rival Newegg."

Comments

Typical

[MikeB0Lton]

If you can't compete with them, sue them. It worked for SCO!

Re:Typical

[geoffrobinson]

I'm not sure if their case is correct, but all the groups listed in the summary aren't just using "geek". They are using it in conjunction with tech support.

"Geek Housecalls, Rent a Geek, Geek Rescue, Speak with A Geek"

Re:Typical

[Quiet_Desperation]

It was ruled false advertising.

Re:Typical

[mikael_j]

So? "Geek" is a common term to describe, well, geeks. So to use the term "geek" as part of the name of a company or service that gives tech support to end users makes a lot of sense and I just don't see how it can be a protected term.

Re:Typical

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

What the hell are you talking about? Geeks lack some social skills but compensate for knowing interesting/fun ways to use gadgets. Nerds have no social skills even when pressing their noses against computers.

In the social ladder Geeks > Nerds. You're thinking of spazzes.

Re:Typical

[Mathinker]

> Or like Microsoft trademarking the word "Windows" in reference to their windowed
> application operating system/environment! That would never fly, Right?

Actually, IIRC, they were originally granted a trademark on "Windows" and "Word", but they chose to sue the wrong people (who had mega-$$) and they lost those trademarks --- IMO, they only have a (US) trademark now on "Microsoft Windows" and "Microsoft Word", not on the bare words, no matter what the context.

< checks WP >

No, they only practically lost the bare word Windows --- they bailed out of the litigation before the judge could rule it was invalid.

Re:Typical

[gpinkham]

for the record.. spazzsquad.com is available according to godaddy..

Re:Typical

[localman57]

What? Who is that Addy god that you worship?

Re:Typical

[postbigbang]

No. He sells computers and *thinks* he's a geek. He wears a polo shirt with the company logo, but his headset is too tight.

Re:Typical

[lgw]

Authoritative nerd-geek-dork Venn Diagram.

Even more authoritative nerd-geek-dork Venn Diagram.

Re:Typical

[russotto]

Hey, I had a mod point left, where'd it go? You need a "funny" mod. I don't have any trouble attracting the opposite sex (but the meme is funny).

Going to the red-light district with cash in your pocket doesn't count.

Re:Typical

[reboot246]

"They sell to people who laugh at the ineptitude of Best Buy's Geek Squad."

Truer words were never spoken . . . I mean uhh . . . written.

The only time you'll catch me in a Best Buy is if I have to have something right now, and I mean this very day. Newegg can get items to me in a couple of days, so usually Best Buy (if they even carry the item!) is left out in the cold.

Oh, and I'd never let anybody from the Geek Squad touch a computer of mine.

Frankly...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

I'd say that the world's questionably-socially-adept technology enthusiasts have a much better defamation case against Best Buy's appropriation of the term for their "Geek Squad"...

Re:Frankly...

[nospam007]

The Nerd-Herd?

Re:Frankly...

[Whalou]

questionably-socially-adept technology enthusiasts

I've never been to Best Buy but from what I understand the "Geek Squad" appears to be filled with questionably-technology-adept social enthusiasts. And even then, the social part is possibly a stretch.

Re:Frankly...

[nomadic]

At least they don't call it "the Genius Bar." Biggest. Misnomer. Ever.

Re:Frankly...

[hedwards]

Geek Squad was from what I understand actually fairly helpful prior to being taken over by BestBuy. These days though, they're more known for stealing porn from consumers and general ineptitude. 9 Confessions Of A Former Geek Squad Geek

Re:Frankly...

[Runaway1956]

Based on anecdotal evidence found on the web - that is no longer true. It seems that the "geeks" have been put out to pasture, and Best Buy has hired "sales" people to replace them. Today, calling the "Geek Squad" means some sales oriented person comes to your house, runs some automated software to clean up viral infestations, and to find obvious hardware and software problems. Based on what he finds, that sales person then offers all sorts of (possibly un-) necessary hardware, software, and/or services. Geek Squad members are graded on the sales they make, rather than the computers they fix.

Re:Frankly...

[Scragglykat]

That's because the true purpose of a Geek Squad employee is not to fix your technology, but to sell you NEW technology in its place. They are more a squad of technology salesmen (and women I assume) than tech support staff. I've had to tell someone who unwisely chose the Geek Squad to be their technology benefactor, that although GS told them their computer was consumed with malware and thus, the entire system would not start (see also, would not even post), and that the fix would be $50 less than the new system they could sell them which would then be ready to go right now, vs. a week or more later, that the new system they purchased from Best Buy on the "Geek's" recommendation was a waste of money. A quick flick of the power switch on the old machine alerted me to the fact that it did not even attempt to post and that the power light was flickering in a pattern. Quick Google search for power light error codes and what do I find? PSU is bad. $20 later, the machine is booted, I'm scanning away on the drive and finding absolutely nothing. Morale of the story is, they are salesmen and nothing more. They MAY be able to help you with something, but most of the time that help is going to lead to some additional sale.

Use in Commerce

[Theaetetus]

Before this thread goes off the rails about Best Buy trying to censor free speech, under US law (the Lanham Act), trademark rights apply only to uses in commerce. So you can be a geek, call people geeks, this article can discuss geeks, that's all fine. However, when you start a "Squad o'Geeks" computer repair service, only then are you going to run into a potential problem.

Note: this doesn't mean it's a slam dunk for Best Buy... Newegg's defense is that "geek" is a generic term, and it could well be. The point is just that trademarks only apply to commercial speech.

Re:Use in Commerce

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

And only to deceptive use. Walk into a pharmacy or grocery store or something, pick up the nearest store-brand OTC medication or toothpaste or whatever and it will say "Compare to $COMPANY(r) $PRODUCT(r) active ingredients*"

"*This product is not manufactured or distributed by $COMPANY owner of the registered trademark $PRODUCT(r)."

If they can establish that the competing service is using a name(or name/branding/color scheme/etc. of which the Geek Squad has a fairly well-developed, if hideous, flavor) calculated to deceive the customer, the competing service is in for a world of hurt. If, on the other hand, "geeks" are a generic category of technical service providers, "Rent A Geek" and "Geek Squad" sound pretty much nothing alike. If an orange and black car containing a "Squad o'Geeks" wearing goofy uniforms pulls up, though, game over...

Re:Use in Commerce

[Theaetetus]

but only the fully qualified name - ie Geek Squad is trademarked. Geek in and of itself, even in use by other technical specialists is not infringement.

Not necessarily, if Best Buy can show they have rights in the family mark - see the McDonalds v. McSleep and McDental cases.

Chances are if anyone confuses Speak with a Geek with Geek Squad, it's only going to improve their already shaky, shady reputation.

Possibly, but that doesn't matter... Trademarks are about consistent reputations, not stellar ones. McDonald's has craptastic food, but it's consistently craptastic. That's why it's got one of the strongest trademarks in the world.

Re:Use in Commerce

[Theaetetus]

If they can establish that the competing service is using a name(or name/branding/color scheme/etc. of which the Geek Squad has a fairly well-developed, if hideous, flavor) calculated to deceive the customer, the competing service is in for a world of hurt. If, on the other hand, "geeks" are a generic category of technical service providers, "Rent A Geek" and "Geek Squad" sound pretty much nothing alike. If an orange and black car containing a "Squad o'Geeks" wearing goofy uniforms pulls up, though, game over...

Well, there's part of the problem... Newegg put up a television add with a big electronics store and a guy in a blue polo shirt fixing computers, and they use black and orange colors in the logo.

Also, the fact that "Rent a Geek" and "Geek Squad" sound nothing alike isn't that relevant... You don't have to directly confuse the two marks - rather, the test for infringement is whether a reasonable person would think that "Rent a Geek" refers to or associated with Best Buy's service.

And finally, remember that the "reasonable person" is one in the market. No Slashdot person would confuse Best Buy and Newegg, or Geek Squad and Rent a Geek... but we also wouldn't be caught dead using those services. Your 80 year old grandmother who wants the emails and the 3Gs to send an internets to her grandkid is the relevant market, and you can bet she's going to be confused between Geek On and Geek Squad, particularly if they're both in blue polos with orange and black logos.

Re:Use in Commerce

[Dog-Cow]

The only thing horribly wrong is your understanding.

Trademarks do not need to contain or be made up of made-up words.

Re:Use in Commerce

[Theaetetus]

Apple is also a generic term, being the name of a fruit. How about I try to set up a computer company using it? I could use some new innovative core design and call my company Apple-core.

Apple is a generic term for apples. It's not a generic term for anything else. Specifically with regard to Apple Computers, it's an arbitrary term, which is one of the strongest protected categories of trademarks. More info here or here, essentially layman's guides to the Federal Circuit decision in Abercrombie & Fitch Co. vs. Hunting World, Inc.

Re:Use in Commerce

[bluefoxlucid]

Yes but that particular test is faulty because you can find "a" person who "doesn't give a shit and just wants this shit fixed" in 90% of the market. 90% of the market is not reasonable. 90% of the market that shows up at Best Buy's Geek Squad will think the Genius Bar at Apple is the same thing... Geek Squad, Geek Bar, whatever.

By the way, Best Buy says (internally--this is company proprietary information) that Geek Squad's revenue is supposed to be about 80%; however, each Geek Squad "Agent" gets paid $10.50-ish an hour, maybe $15/hour in the upper tiers, more for out-of-store service. In-store is 80%, which means a revenue of 5 times the $84/day you make, or $420/day in services sold. In truth, however, they push for around $200/hour or about $1600/day.

Think about it. If it's slow up front, one machine an hour is a $60 "diagnostic" service, already breaking (at $10.50/hr) the $52.50 you need to make. While there's no customers, you do all the bench work; it's minimal. Now, diagnostic is mandatory (if you come in saying "I have a virus" it's "We must do a diagnostic, $60"), but I *think* the actual repair is discounted ... so if it's a $30 repair, you pay $60 total.

But that'll get you in a load of trouble (I know, I was fired for minimizing profits), so what normally happens is they run the anti-virus installed and it can't remove a virus (funny) or otherwise doesn't fix the problem. Then they tell you, $70 to back up any files, $60 to re-install the OS, $30 to run Windows Update and apply all patches, $30 per software package (Anti-virus, Anti-Spyware, Office) being installed... totals out to a good $250, plus the original repair, over $300 for one customer.

I used to peer at the output and notice what was being found "protected" and irreparable; when you reboot, that file is encrypted and can't be scanned by the offline virus scanner, so it misses the virus. But since the online scanner told you it's in C:\Program Files\Common Files\wx3pd12.exe ... you go rename it to .ex_ and reboot. System works? Remove the file. Problem solved, and you just saved the customer $250 with 5 minutes of extra work. Now your supervisor is pissed and you get fired.

Re:Use in Commerce

[DarKnyht]

Apparently you did not watch the video in the article (which isn't a surprise since odds are you didn't read the story). The commercial shows a box store salesperson in a blue polo taking the camera (the customer) to the laptop sales section. The customer asks the simple question, "What's the difference between the two" and the rest of the commercial is watching the salesperson struggle to answer the question. There is absolutely zero mention of Geek Squad, and the word Geek would not be in the commercial except for the tag at the end "Take it from a geek".

Best Buy deserves to get slapped hard for this as it is an abuse of their Trademark. Their Trademark for "Geek Squad" does not give them complete control of the word "Geek" in the commercial world much like a fast food joint can't claim control of "Chicken" just because they sell a "McChicken". It is a common ploy of marketers to make an ad that has people dressed similarly as their competitors to paint them in a poor light, and it is sad that Best Buy feels the need to run to their Legal Team and cry foul. Perhaps if it wasn't so close to the truth they wouldn't be as bothered.

CompGeeks - now geeks.com

[FatAlb3rt]

Maybe CompGeeks should take issue with Best Buy - they've been doing the geek thing for 15 years.

let's get back to basics

[rubycodez]

Geeks are supposed to be crazed circus side show freaks that bite the heads off of chickens.

http://youtu.be/JNM4atakanI

Re:let's get back to basics

[Tr3vin]

We prefer the term "Hungry American". We do not like being associated with those introverted computer nerds.

Meanwhile, at Best Buy HQ

[The O Rly Factor]

We're losing customers to Newegg! We need to stop price gouging our repair services! We need to hire actually knowledgeable and well trained sales representatives! We need to carry a better selection of components that aren't grossly overpriced! We need to .... ah screw it too much overhead let's just sue them over use of the word geek.

They Tarnish the name "Geek"

[MoldySpore]

If the "Geek Squad's" track record indicates anything, it is that they are not worthy of the title "geek" anything.

Anyone who brings their computer to Best Buy for service either 1) Has never brought their computer to best buy for service before, 2) Is too stupid to know any better, or 3) Have no friends who have even a remedial knowledge of IT.

How rentally metarded is that?

[CODiNE]

They only used "Geek Squad" because everybody already knew what it meant. Therefore, it's not theirs.

Re:How far should common terms go?

[Theaetetus]

This really makes me wonder how far one should be allowed to use common terms. In this particular case, the argument is against the decades-old term "geek". How far should companies wanting to engage in commerce be allowed to take a trademark? To me, even the example of the word "geek" is ridiculous, but if you want the most extreme form of insanity when it comes to current copyright/trademark laws, iAnyone doesn't have to iLook any further than Apple, and their iMonopoly over a single letter. At what point should we draw the line?

But Apple doesn't have a monopoly over the single letter (and, in fact, they haven't successfully asserted family rights in the i- prefix either yet). And "iPod" or "iMac" or "iCloud" certainly aren't common words.

Where should the line be drawn? It depends on the case. We can go as narrow as need be. If "geek" is a generic term and "squad" is generic, then what about "geek squad" together? No one but Best Buy is using that, so maybe we only give them protection over the combination, and "Geek On" or "Squad o'Nerds" would be just fine. Or maybe it's not enough and we require more - "Best Buy's Geek Squad". Now at that point, we're certainly not "being insane" by giving them protection.

The line that's drawn is whether the entire mark - not just its individual parts - is generic. But we can vary the mark or the protection we give until it passes that line.

Picture of infringement

[brainzach]

The title is misleading. Best Buy is defending uses of the word Geek in a context that can be confused with the brand Geek Squad.

Here is a photo of the alleged infringement.

After looking at the logos, it doesn't look like Best Buy has much of a case. I don't see how a reasonable person can confuse the two usages.

Re:In High School, we beat the shit out of them.

[RobDude]

I don't know where you went to high school or where you work; but I've found this to, largely, be incorrect. Most of the 'geeks' I knew in high school are software developers or system admins or something similar. Even some of the really, really smart geeks I knew, the one who worked at Google and then Plantir (while I'm sure he's rich by normal standards) isn't 'running' things.

I'd bet money there are more CEOs in the US who were former jocks/popular kids than former geeks. I might be wrong, I don't have any real data on this, but my gut and personal experience support it. There are a few notable exceptions, specifically tech companies that were started by one geek that grew.

Re:How far should common terms go?

[UnknowingFool]

The trademarking of two common words has been around forever. ie Sun Computers, International Business Machines, Internet Explorer, etc.

correction - from 19th century

[rubycodez]

It comes from the Low German word "geck" meaning fool or crazy. Sideshow or freak show circus wild (as in crazy) men were called "geeks", and to demonstrate craziness did such stunts as biting chicken's heads off and swallowed and regurgitated live goldfish. In the 1930s, goldfish swallowing was a fad in colleges and was sometimes called being a geek.

Big Box "Repair" Services

[JobyOne]

I hate big box repair services so much.

I once had what seemed to be a dud power supply, and I went to the Circuit City near my house because I knew they would have something that would work to replace it. I also figured they would have one of those gadgets for testing power supplies. So I took the power supply out and headed over.

Their support desk said they really preferred to troubleshoot the whole computer, then suggested I go home, put the power supply back in the case, then bring the whole thing back in and pay them $100 just to look at it. I said "no, it's almost certainly just the power supply, just plug it into that thing" and pointed at the tester sitting on the table next to them. After some convincing the guy finally did, and that was when it got *super* scam-tastic.

Luckily I could look over the counter and see that not all the green lights were on when he said "nope, looks like it works fine." I asked him why the +12V rail light hadn't come on, and he tried to tell me that it should work fine, even without +12V, and that that's normal. Of course that gave him an opening to try - again - to tell me to go home, put the (obviously defective) power supply back in the case and bring the whole thing in so they could get $100 just to put it on a shelf for a few days before calling me and saying "you don't have an operating system." To which I would say "no shit, I just built it and it's never even been powered on. Is the power supply broken? Of course it is, you dumb fucks."

If they had the balls to try and pull that shit on somebody like me, who comes in sporting a geek beard, holding a very fancy power supply and knowing at a glance which of their tools I need to borrow for 15 seconds...I shudder at the thought of what they must have pulled on people like - say - my mother.

I doubt any large chain repair service is any better. I hope the Geek Squad chokes and dies.

Re:Big Box "Repair" Services

[Registered Coward v2]

If they had the balls to try and pull that shit on somebody like me, who comes in sporting a geek beard, holding a very fancy power supply and knowing at a glance which of their tools I need to borrow for 15 seconds...I shudder at the thought of what they must have pulled on people like - say - my mother.

I doubt any large chain repair service is any better. I hope the Geek Squad chokes and dies.

Sometimes I wonder if they truly know. I had a "consultation" for home theater install (it was free and I was looking for some advice). I told the GS guy what I was looking for - he proceeded to take a few measures and promise a quote and recommendations. When I got it it was a long list of (expensive) items that would cost as much as a small car, (they seem to simply check every expensive item they sell); when I started asking questions all I got was blank stares. Needless to say, I'm not to impressed with their "consultants." Oh well...

Re:Big Box "Repair" Services

[Twanfox]

You know what happens when a technician helps out another technician by a 5 second test using that tool? They generally gain the business of that technician, and the recommendations to their peers and layfolk. Good will is, by itself, good advertising and quite often free. While the person stepping into the store might be able to fix up the computers of everyone, they may not have the time, and when deferring someone to another repair source, who would you recommend? This store that just tried to screw you out of $100 for what amounts to doing absolutely no work, or some other shop that treats customers with respect?

The 'I'm a big box store and we don't need your business' is so damn stupid for a business out to make money. Be flexible. If someone knows what they need, help them out and don't try to scam them on services. If someone doesn't know what they need, help them out with enhanced services and diagnostics they may not be aware may improve the performance of their PC. You can have a win-win situation simply by not being a dick to a potential customer.

Re:Big Box "Repair" Services

[the_raptor]

"My mechanic" is different from "random mechanic". If you walked in off the street and asked a random mechanic to let you borrow some equipment for a quick test most of them would tell you to piss off, so I don't see why you expect computer technicians to be any different.

The point I was making was that guy had no reason to think you were a customer. Ask anyone in retail these days and they will tell you most of the people in the store aren't customers. They come in to look at products, try them etc, and then go home and buy it on the Internet.

Personally I would have tested the PSU for you, but that is because I am a nice guy with no "business sense". It is also why I got let go from tech support when the GFC hit.

P.S. And no my use of "bleeding edge" didn't imply self-assembled machines are inherently worse. It implied that "bleeding edge" machines are inherently unstable via the fact they are at the bleeding edge. Gamers often build rigs that deliberately push components past what they are spec'd for (eg I am running over clocked and over voltage RAM).

P.P.S I enjoyed my time in tech support mostly when the boss was away and I could help people with quick jobs without having to check a machine in.

Corporate citizenship should be ended.

[efinAVguy]

Best Buy and the Corporate World in general should not be allowed to steal common words. Dumb just like patents that last forever. I would think 25 years should be plenty. Holds back invention and competition as it is.

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