Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Roundabout Revolution Sweeping US

Posted by timothy on from the how-to-spend-your-stimulus-bribe dept.

chrb writes "BBC News reports that U.S. cities are installing more roundabouts than ever before. The first British-style roundabout appeared in the U.S. in 1990, and now some cities — such as Carmel in Indiana, are rapidly replacing intersections with roundabouts. Supporters claim that roundabouts result in increased traffic flow, reductions in both the severity and incidence of accidents, and fuel savings. Critics say that roundabouts are more difficult to navigate for unfamiliar American drivers, lead to higher taxes and accidents, and require everyday acts of spontaneous co-operation and yielding to others — acts that are 'un-American.'" As a driver who's hit all of the continental U.S. states except North Dakota, I dread roundabouts and rotaries for all the near accidents (and at least one actual accident) I've seen them inspire, and have been unhappy to see them spread. Spontaneous driver cooperation doesn't necessarily need the round shape, either.

31 of 1,173 comments (clear)

  1. Really bad idea. by yog · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Roundabouts (or rotaries, or traffic circles, as they're known in parts of the U.S.) induce confusion and fear in many drivers, although they can be useful at times. This article from an insurance periodical suggests that it's aggressive drivers who are making rotaries more dangerous.

    I like rotaries for two reasons: when there's no traffic, it's nicer than having to stop at an arbitrary red light and wait for a mandatory 2 minutes while the lights cycle. Secondly, if I am not sure whether to turn or not, I can just take another spin around the circle until I see the street sign I'm looking for (assuming there is one, not a given on some of the sign-challenged Northeast roads).

    But I loathe rotaries when there's a lot of traffic. You can sit there for a lot longer than you would at a red light. Plus, some places make a rotary out of a 5-way intersection which can be incredibly confusing. It's a tradeoff, I guess, but overall I'd rather drive in a straight line :)

    --
    it's = "it is"; its = possessive. E.g., it's flapping its wings.
    1. Re:Really bad idea. by Kokuyo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Both opinions in TFA are right. The traffic flow, overall, is better but they also lead to many people not really knowing how to behave in them.

      We have a lot of them in Switzerland and their number is growing. I feel we have more roundabouts than normal intersections now. Subjectively, of course. And still many people don't know how to behave.

      Two factors are important: Build them large enough, so traffic flowing in has a chance to anticipate an open spot. And make people aware of how they work. Tell it on the radio, in TV spots and so on.

      In Switzerland, cars in the roundabout have the right of way (interestingly enough, though, if that thing has more than one lane, inner lanes DON'T have right of way, which makes no sense...) and you only signal right when you LEAVE it. OR you signal right if you know you'll be leaving at the next exit.

      It works very well, in most cases and I have yet to hear of accidents in them.

    2. Re:Really bad idea. by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Both opinions in TFA are right. The traffic flow, overall, is better but they also lead to many people not really knowing how to behave in them.

      Um, people can learn....right?

      If we never tried anything new because people don't know how to do it yet then we'd still be banging rocks together to make dinner.

      --
      No sig today...
    3. Re:Really bad idea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Most places have exemptions for bicycles and motorbikes at intersections for these reasons. Basically, the law says that you treat the red light as a stop sign and proceed when it's safe. You should check your local laws.

    4. Re:Really bad idea. by strength_of_10_men · · Score: 4, Funny

      Here in Michigan, we're starting to replace stop sign/lights intersections with roundabouts, and on the whole, I really like them... when done right.

      But as always, leave it to the US govt to take a good idea and f*** it up beyond hope. I couldn't find a picture of the traffic sign approaching these roundabouts but it's even more confusing than the picture.

      The first time I went through this roundabout, I couldn't read the sign fast enough to really tell where to go and basically dove into the first roundabout in almost blind panic. Luckily it was late at night and there were no other cars, but I can only imagine the mass confusion at high traffic.

    5. Re:Really bad idea. by Joce640k · · Score: 5, Interesting

      When you get the hang of roundabouts we'll teach you how to use these: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon)

      --
      No sig today...
    6. Re:Really bad idea. by Ephemeriis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Roundabouts (or rotaries, or traffic circles, as they're known in parts of the U.S.) induce confusion and fear in many drivers

      Just because they're new and different.

      People absolutely freaked out when my town got its first roundabout. Now, a few years later, nobody cares.

      Give it some time and they'll be as commonplace and unremarkable as anything else on the road.

      This article from an insurance periodical suggests that it's aggressive drivers who are making rotaries more dangerous.

      Aggressive drivers make everything more dangerous.

      I like rotaries for two reasons: when there's no traffic, it's nicer than having to stop at an arbitrary red light and wait for a mandatory 2 minutes while the lights cycle. Secondly, if I am not sure whether to turn or not, I can just take another spin around the circle until I see the street sign I'm looking for (assuming there is one, not a given on some of the sign-challenged Northeast roads).

      But I loathe rotaries when there's a lot of traffic. You can sit there for a lot longer than you would at a red light. Plus, some places make a rotary out of a 5-way intersection which can be incredibly confusing. It's a tradeoff, I guess, but overall I'd rather drive in a straight line :)

      Like anything else, you need the right tool for the job.

      Lots of places are hearing about how awesome roundabouts are and are throwing them in everywhere - even where they aren't helpful.

      If you've got a high volume of traffic, you need a larger roundabout. Something with a couple lanes to it, to handle the higher traffic. But that means it needs to take up a larger area. And, in many cases, it's just easier to do a stop light.

      We've got a couple 5-way intersections here in town, and they'd actually be less-confusing with a properly-implemented roundabout. You just have to ensure that there's enough space between intersections that people can enter/exit safely.

      --
      "Work is the curse of the drinking classes." -Oscar Wilde
    7. Re:Really bad idea. by SvetBeard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Like any tool, roundabouts have to be used in appropriate situations. I used to work in traffic engineering, and adding roundabouts (or signals and stop sings, for that matter) requires careful study and the meeting of certain criteria (called warrants). Warrants include such things as daily vehicle volume, peak hourly volumes, pedistrian volumes, and delay times. In the right place, roundabouts allow traffic to flow better than a signal and with greater safety. Head-on and t-bone collisions (the two most dangerous types of traffic accidents) are virtually eliminated. The accidents that do happen will be at a lower speed and a gentler angle.

      All of that said, there is always the problem of the unwritten "political" warrant. The mayor wants a stop sign (or signal or roundabout) here, so one is going in even if it is worse for the traffic. Of course, there are also fads to put in roundabouts (or what have you). Some of the roundabouts are going to be unwarranted or conditions will change. Roundabouts work best when applied correctly.

    8. Re:Really bad idea. by sifi · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That roundabout is genius - it's so confusing that everyone drives really carefully and there are probably less serious accidents there than 'normal' roundabout.

      --
      Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
    9. Re:Really bad idea. by stonedcat · · Score: 5, Informative

      You're either trolling or ignorant... Many places I need to ride, there either are no sidewalks or they're incomplete and only exist in segments or at intersections. You'll also find that in some areas of the US it is illegal to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk. I have personally been ticketed in the past for this in my home town.

      --
      You can't take the sky from me.
    10. Re:Really bad idea. by Runaway1956 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, it is not LEGAL to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk You're part of the problem that Bing is referring to. A bicycle isn't just a toy, it is a vehicle, subject to vehicle laws in each state.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    11. Re:Really bad idea. by tinkerghost · · Score: 5, Funny

      Um, people can learn....right?

      Awww, how cute. Look everyone, he still has faith in humanity.

    12. Re:Really bad idea. by cduffy · · Score: 4, Informative

      You might try taking the TS101 class offered nationwide by the League of American Bicyclists. Your local class will be tailored to your state and local laws -- but one thing they all teach is accident statistics. Riding on the sidewalk, even when legal, entails far more risk than riding in the street (being one of the top 3 causes of cyclist-at-fault accidents -- the other two being riding at night without lights and riding the wrong way on the street). [Another useful thing to come out of those accident statistics -- all but ~3% of accidents have avoidance or mitigation mechanisms available. Proper lane positioning, signalling, emergency manoeuvring, and simply following traffic laws all do a world of good].

      When you're on the sidewalk, folks pulling in and out of driveways aren't generally looking for anything faster than a pedestrian. The advice you give could get people killed.

    13. Re:Really bad idea. by Heed00 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Two factors are important: Build them large enough, so traffic flowing in has a chance to anticipate an open spot. And make people aware of how they work. Tell it on the radio, in TV spots and so on.

      Exactly. These are two important points. Canada is also adopting the roundabout in some areas and the size is a real issue as many are so small that you might as well just put a 4-way stop or traffic lights in because the traffic just backs up in all four directions anyway -- the roundabout is too small to allow the traffic to keep flowing and merging. On the point of education, I received a flyer in the mail at the beginning of the year providing instructions on how to properly use a roundabout. You can see the website it pointed to here: http://www.regionofwaterloo.ca/en/gettingaround/roundabouts.asp?OpenDocument&mode=1

      The interesting thing for me was that I had been in England since 2000 and only returned back to my native Canada in 2010 to suddenly see roundabouts as part of the roadways. My first reaction was, "But almost nobody would have taken a driving test that would include roundabout protocol" -- this was painfully obvious when I saw the "seat of the pants" approach many took to coming upon a roundabout. I'm now back in England and actually kept the flyer I received to show to the locals here -- I have rarely seen such laughter upon reading a pamphlet.

      I'm guessing, but I would wager roundabouts are cheaper to implement than the other traffic flow solutions -- the authorities like to talk about safety, improved traffic flow etc. but when you put in a new element on the roadways with minimal education and build it on an ineffective scale, then that makes me think that cost is the driving factor.

      --
      Thought thinks itself.
    14. Re:Really bad idea. by ymarcus · · Score: 5, Informative
      Although it seems like traffic circles should be more dangerous, I'm not sure the data backs this up. This article, for example, cites several studies that show a significant decrease in accidents and an even more significant decrease in "severe injury" crashes when roundabouts replace traffic lights. The latter, at least, makes sense since roundabouts virtually remove the possibility of head on crashes.

      However, as other posters have pointed out, there are several kinds of intersection, each with their own factors that must be accounted for, (traffic volume, etc.) and it is unclear if the studies have taken into account the differing characteristics of the intersections that were replaced.

      Additionally, the IIHS, for one, considers roundabouts distinct from rotaries. Since many others do not make this distinction, it is difficult to tell what kind of traffic circles were studied, and what kind of traffic circles are being installed in the US's "roundabout revolution."

      Either way, the knee-jerk reaction of "rotaries are dangerous" at the least needs a conditional and at best is quite false.

    15. Re:Really bad idea. by abhi_beckert · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Some roundabouts in australia have traffic lights fitted which only turn on during peak hour.

      Best of both worlds: you never stop under light traffic (most of the day) and the traffic lights keep it flowing as much as possible during peak traffic.

    16. Re:Really bad idea. by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 4, Funny
      people can learn....right?

      Thee aren't people, these are Americans

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    17. Re:Really bad idea. by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually, it is not LEGAL to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk [...]

      Depends on where you live.

      Here in California, riding on the sidewalk may be legal depending on where you live. It is not decided at the state level. So, for example, it may illegal to ride your bike on sidewalk in San Francisco but perfectly legal to ride your bike on the sidewalk in Garden Grove. It might be legal to ride on the sidewalks of Newport Beach, but not the ones on Main Street.

    18. Re:Really bad idea. by hazem · · Score: 4, Informative

      There is a federal guideline for this and most states and cities follow it. It's the federal guideline known as the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (MUTCD) http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/. Where it provides guidance, most follow it exactly, with exceptions being rare. However there are often local situations not covered precisely in the MUTCD.

      Roundabouts, including their markings, are covered in Chapter 3C http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part3/part3c.htm.

  2. Wow.... by jawtheshark · · Score: 4, Insightful

    require everyday acts of spontaneous co-operation and yielding to others — acts that are 'un-American.'"

    Wow... Just Wow... That's an argument against roundabouts?!? I personally find that one of the most sad statements I've read in a long time.

    --
    Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
  3. About time too by Stormthirst · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They are only a problem for people who are unused to them. As with all change, it will take time for people to get used to them.

    If it is aggressive drivers (as previously commented) who are causing accidents, this will push their insurance up and perhaps they will become more cautious. Isn't that the nature of free market economics that the Americans seem so fond of?

    1. Re:About time too by imadork · · Score: 5, Funny

      We Americans are great drivers! We don't need to "prepare" to drive in Europe at all. But tell me, what's that extra pedal for?

  4. Higher Taxes? by ajo_arctus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm British, so maybe I'm biased, but I'm pretty sure that roundabouts do not increase taxes. Seems like an odd claim to make.

    FWIW, roundabouts aren't really that difficult to use. You just drive round them.

  5. Pedestrian problems? by schwit1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How do pedestrians get across roads with rotaries? With traffic lights there is a clear system for pedestrian traffic. As I approach a rotary as a driver I am looking for space between traffic to merge into the circle. I am not looking for pedestrians.

    1. Re:Pedestrian problems? by dunkelfalke · · Score: 4, Informative

      Zebra crossing.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    2. Re:Pedestrian problems? by Andy_R · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The thing I find puzzling about the American resistance to roundabouts is that they actually contain no new concepts at all, you don't have to 'learn' anything to use them. Topologically, they are just a one way street with T-junctions.

      Ever pulled out of a side street into one-way traffic? That's exactly what you do when you join a roundabout. Even turned off a one way street into a side street? That's exactly what you do when you leave.

      To answer your question, have you ever walked along a main street and crossed a side street that didn't have traffic lights? That's exactly what you do when you cross at a roundabout.

      --
      A pizza of radius z and thickness a has a volume of pi z z a
  6. UnAmerican? by tbannist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's interesting that cooperation and yielding to others is considered "un-American" by at least some Americans. That simple statements speaks volumes about the dire straights that the United States is in.

    Maybe these traffic circles are a good idea after all. Maybe it will teach more Americans that cooperation is not a synonym for communism. Maybe it will teach them that they can profit from cooperation. Or maybe the ones who refuse to co-operate will slowly be killed off in a never-ending stream of roundabout traffic accidents. Either way, that might be best for the country in the long run...

    --
    Fanatically anti-fanatical
  7. Re:Cooperation Crap by ISoldat53 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just think of them as token rings.

  8. Check the road fatalities per 100k vehicles by Aceticon · · Score: 4, Informative

    here

    The US is conveniently located close to the UK.

    Notice twice as many fatalities per 100000 vehicles in the US (15) than the UK (7).

    It's a similary picture in most of Western Europe and there are plenty of roundabouts all over Europe.

    Doesn't really prove anything, but it seems unlikelly that roundabouts significantly increase the number of traffic accidents. Even if they do, they certainly do not increase the number of deaths.

  9. Roundabouts are much safer by vijayiyer · · Score: 4, Informative

    Would you rather be t-boned by an idiot driver who runs a stop sign or hit in a glancing blow by an idiot driver who can't navigate a roundabout? A good roundabout where the curbing forces tangential entry is safer.

  10. Re:rageometer by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 4, Insightful
    There's a lot of objective data out there on accident rates

    These is masses of data here in the UK, and it all says roundaboutses have fewer accidents than lights, and they are less serious accidents, and pass more traffic with less waiting. It has also been demonstrated that some junctions are safer and faster without any rules. (Mostly where traffic density is very high, and no one can reach 4MPH).

    However, the UK has had roundabouts longer than any of today's drivers have been on the road, and we have a driving test that requires you to negotiate them safely, using your indicators correctly. Its true that some people ignore their training, and some have forgotten.

    As I understand it, the test in America is "Have you got $50?" and does not require any knowledge or skill to pass it. It may be 75 years before Americans can use roundabouts safely. After all, many cannot change gear (or even lane) safely.

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII