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Roundabout Revolution Sweeping US
chrb writes "BBC News reports that U.S. cities are installing more roundabouts than ever before. The first British-style roundabout appeared in the U.S. in 1990, and now some cities — such as Carmel in Indiana, are rapidly replacing intersections with roundabouts. Supporters claim that roundabouts result in increased traffic flow, reductions in both the severity and incidence of accidents, and fuel savings. Critics say that roundabouts are more difficult to navigate for unfamiliar American drivers, lead to higher taxes and accidents, and require everyday acts of spontaneous co-operation and yielding to others — acts that are 'un-American.'" As a driver who's hit all of the continental U.S. states except North Dakota, I dread roundabouts and rotaries for all the near accidents (and at least one actual accident) I've seen them inspire, and have been unhappy to see them spread. Spontaneous driver cooperation doesn't necessarily need the round shape, either.
Roundabouts (or rotaries, or traffic circles, as they're known in parts of the U.S.) induce confusion and fear in many drivers, although they can be useful at times. This article from an insurance periodical suggests that it's aggressive drivers who are making rotaries more dangerous.
:)
I like rotaries for two reasons: when there's no traffic, it's nicer than having to stop at an arbitrary red light and wait for a mandatory 2 minutes while the lights cycle. Secondly, if I am not sure whether to turn or not, I can just take another spin around the circle until I see the street sign I'm looking for (assuming there is one, not a given on some of the sign-challenged Northeast roads).
But I loathe rotaries when there's a lot of traffic. You can sit there for a lot longer than you would at a red light. Plus, some places make a rotary out of a 5-way intersection which can be incredibly confusing. It's a tradeoff, I guess, but overall I'd rather drive in a straight line
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Wow... Just Wow... That's an argument against roundabouts?!? I personally find that one of the most sad statements I've read in a long time.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Washington DC has had roundabouts since 1791, when the city was built modeled on European cities.
They've been around in the US far longer than 21 years. The one in my small town preceded me (born in '79). The flow is the same as what is shown on the wiki (other than the right/left side of the road difference).
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
They are only a problem for people who are unused to them. As with all change, it will take time for people to get used to them.
If it is aggressive drivers (as previously commented) who are causing accidents, this will push their insurance up and perhaps they will become more cautious. Isn't that the nature of free market economics that the Americans seem so fond of?
I'm British, so maybe I'm biased, but I'm pretty sure that roundabouts do not increase taxes. Seems like an odd claim to make.
FWIW, roundabouts aren't really that difficult to use. You just drive round them.
How do pedestrians get across roads with rotaries? With traffic lights there is a clear system for pedestrian traffic. As I approach a rotary as a driver I am looking for space between traffic to merge into the circle. I am not looking for pedestrians.
Exactly. Unfortunately, most Americans don't know or ignore this. The other problem with not knowing the rules are the drivers who stop before entering when they don't need to. New rotaries should be posted with basic signs until they're more common. They recently installed several in my area and they greatly relieved congestion and peak gridlock. The Atlanta area is a prime candidate for rotaries but installation would probably become a Tea Party issue.
I personally love roundabouts. As long as people signal and drive carefully (read: Properly) they are quite safe. Also they can help avoid clusterf*cks like http://wikimapia.org/1698209/Simms-Corner which is one of the most dangerous intersections I've ever had the pleasure of driving through.
.sig
It's interesting that cooperation and yielding to others is considered "un-American" by at least some Americans. That simple statements speaks volumes about the dire straights that the United States is in.
Maybe these traffic circles are a good idea after all. Maybe it will teach more Americans that cooperation is not a synonym for communism. Maybe it will teach them that they can profit from cooperation. Or maybe the ones who refuse to co-operate will slowly be killed off in a never-ending stream of roundabout traffic accidents. Either way, that might be best for the country in the long run...
Fanatically anti-fanatical
I've heard the argument that while roundabouts may increase the number of accidents, those accidents are less severe than the same intersection with lights.
Just think of them as token rings.
I'd like to start by saying that I'm British, from an area with lots of roundabouts.
Roundabouts do work, but only in certain circumstances. They work well for junctions where there isn't a 'dominant flow' of traffic in a particular direction and traffic isn't too heavy; right turns (left turns in the US) are easier to accomodate than at a traffic light junction, most of the time there is a short wait for traffic entering (if at all) and no particular movement clogs up the other arms of the roundabout.
Where there is a dominant flow, traffic from the other directions can be made to wait a very long time for a gap if one of the roads is constantly spewing traffic onto the roundabout. If the traffic exceeds the capacity of the roundabout, or there is a bottleneck on one of the roads off the roundabout, then all hell breaks loose as traffic is unable to leave and blocks off all the other exits.
In some situations roundabouts can increase accidents; especially when placed to connect a very minor road with little traffic to a major one, as drivers can get so used to 'nothing coming' from the minor road that they plough onto the roundabout without looking properly. Roundabouts near petrol stations can suffer from lots of spinouts, as drivers skid on diesel spilt from overfilled trucks.
(Perhaps) interestingly, in the UK the current fad is to put traffic signals onto roundabouts to increase their capacity, as they're often used here for major junctions with a shitload of traffic, and they jam up. For light to moderate traffic loads, connecting roads of relatively equal importance, they work well.
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I've driven over a thousand miles in the last three years in the british isles, and I really like roundabouts. I also drive in Carmel IN several times a year, and roundabouts here are a whole different ballgame. The British isles have roads that are small and terrain that makes them not arrow straight (like in Carmel). Many british roads are only one lane with "passing places". These passing place roads would kill american drivers. So it seems that the British citizenry seem to understand that the road is not "theirs" and everybody is in this together. So there is a sense of cooperation.
The Carmel roundabouts are driven by people who are used to lanes that are 30 feet wide, and who have a sense of entitlement that their Yukon Denali is here now, and everybody better get out of the way. Then you throw in a mix of confused drivers and aggressive drivers, and the Carmel roundabouts aren't as enjoyable as the british ones.
But honestly, Must things suck in America compared to the british isles.
Don't get me started about the lack of proper transmissions here in the states; we apparently think our cars should be golf carts.
Sheldon
here
The US is conveniently located close to the UK.
Notice twice as many fatalities per 100000 vehicles in the US (15) than the UK (7).
It's a similary picture in most of Western Europe and there are plenty of roundabouts all over Europe.
Doesn't really prove anything, but it seems unlikelly that roundabouts significantly increase the number of traffic accidents. Even if they do, they certainly do not increase the number of deaths.
Would you rather be t-boned by an idiot driver who runs a stop sign or hit in a glancing blow by an idiot driver who can't navigate a roundabout? A good roundabout where the curbing forces tangential entry is safer.
The problem here is that there's no real alternative to driving for most of the US, to the point that it can literally be drive or die of starvation.
So, they hand out driver's licenses like candy, and even when they take them away, people just drive illegally.
The fact is, it's harder to get a driver's license in a lot of other countries. The standards and expectations are higher. In the U.S., I exaggerate only very slightly to suggest that a driver's license (and even automobile ownership) are seen as a fundamental human right, rather than a privilege. Most places, public transit is something that poor people use until they work hard enough to live the American dream (with accompanying house in the 'burbs and two-car garage).
Many other driving nations impose stricter conditions on new drivers, graduated licensing schemes (which require the passages of time and/or tests before new drivers are allowed greater driving privileges--the use of high-speed highways, driving late at night, driving without another experienced driver, etc. may all be prohibited to new drivers), older minimum driving ages, and more complex driving tests than the United States.
Despite its abundant roundabouts, the UK enjoys a non-motorway death rate about 15% below that of the U.S. (Their motorway death rate is more than 60% less, but that's pretty much irrelevant to the roundabout issue.) Better public transit also means that people who can't or shouldn't be driving are less tempted to do so.
~Idarubicin
My first experience with roundabouts was during a vacation to Australia (Brisbane). They are absolutely everywhere and once I'd gotten used to the etiquette in play, I fell in love with them. I drove from Brisbane all the way north to a little resort where we were catching a chart to snorkle the Reef. Traffic never really stops, folks on the roundabout have the right-of-way, but the pace is deliberately slow so that merges on and off and controlled and traffic continues to flow.
You *cannot* run a red light or miss a traffic signal as the intersection usually has a garden or statue *right in the middle of traffic*. If you are somehow so inattentive or drunk entering the intersection that you miss the big wall in front of you, folks on the roundabout have plenty of time to recognize that you aren't going to stop as you *are* in their field of vision as they travel on the circle. They can either stop or take evasive action as you smash into the concrete barricade. Drivers are empowered and required to remain attentive, even when they have the right-of-way. As you need to make a tight circle while on the traffic circle, you *must* drop speed or you'll never make the turn. Accidents on a traffic circle tend to be low-speed with minor or no injuries.
A standard traffic light abdicates all responsibility to a device. Vehicles traveling in a straight line through an intersection tend to do so at or above the speed limit - so pedestrian and driver error is frequently catastrophic or fatal. I don't know about others, but I'll take an increase in fender-benders to avoid head-on or t-bone accidents.
http://www.iihs.org/research/qanda/roundabouts.html has some excellent information about roundabouts. Note in point 5:
"5 What are the common types of crashes at roundabouts? What can be done to prevent them?
Despite the demonstrated safety benefits of roundabouts, some crashes still occur. Fewer crashes are typically seen at single-lane roundabouts compared with multilane roundabouts.5
An Institute study of crashes at 38 roundabouts in Maryland found that four crash types (run-off-road, rear-end, sideswipe, and entering-circulating) accounted for almost all crashes. A common crash type at both single-lane and double-lane roundabouts involved vehicles colliding with the central island. These crashes, which often involved unsafe speeds, accounted for almost half of all single-vehicle run-off-road crashes. Collisions occurred more frequently at entrances to roundabouts rather than within the circulatory roadway or at exits. About three-quarters of the crashes involved property damage. There were no right-angle or head-on collisions, potentially severe crash types that commonly occur at traditional intersections.6
In the Maryland study, Institute researchers concluded that unsafe speeds were an important crash factor. Some drivers may not have seen the roundabout in time. Measures to alert drivers of the need to reduce speeds (e.g., speed limit signs well in advance of roundabouts) and increase the conspicuity of roundabouts (e.g., larger roundabout ahead signs and YIELD signs, enhanced landscaping of center islands, pavement with reflector markings) may help to reduce crashes at roundabouts. Certain design features such as adequate curvature of approach roads also may aid in reducing speeds."
Crudely put. But accurate.
Traffic circles are not roundabouts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout#Difference_from_traffic_circles
Exactly. We call them traffic circles and we've had tons of them in NJ for a very long time - way, way before 1990. Being able to navigate traffic circles in NJ is a trademark skill required for any resident and is often a problem for new comers. Many of the circles have been eliminated, or are in the process of being eliminated, simply because they don't scale well to the ever increasing traffic volume.
While I actually enjoy navigating circles, a well designed intersection with an adaptive traffic light system yields a much better result.
The new breed are fundamentally different in construction from classic NJ/DC rotaries - they are smaller, they don't have lights, speeds are lower, and traffic entering always yields to traffic already in the circle.
If they were called "traffic circles" they probably were rotaries, not roundabouts, the difference being that on a roundabout the traffic already entered has right of way rather then the traffic about to enter.
LOL What you're saying is, people from the US, are incapable of learning very very very basic traffic rules, that people in MANY other countries, can learn without hassle.
Hilarious. I love the US, where "driving in circles" is considered a hard maneuver which causes a lot of accidents.
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One of the big pitfalls for roundabouts that I saw in Montana when they tried to implement them was not taking into account snow removal (at big deal in Bozeman, MT) and emergency vehicles. They placed large concrete islands in the middle of the intersection, and there was not enough room for the larger vehicles to navigate around it. The snow plows couldn't even see the island after a big storm and would run right over it.
They are not the end-all solution, but in certain circumstances, I can see where they would be beneficial.
I believe in de-evolution. God made the world perfect, man fell, and its been going downhill ever since!
Shoot the Transportation Engineer! that ever came up with the roundabout AND the merging exit and entry lanes on highways (another circle of death)! Yes, on paper, if people ACTUALLY drove by the "Rules of the Road" and "Right of Way"-let alone the actual LAWS that govern vehicular operation in ANY country-they would do all the things they say. BUT, this is yet another classic case of theory v. reality. In theory, given the laws and rules of the road this would work. In reality, people learn stuff about driving to pass a test and then forget it all 15 seconds after they have the driver's license in their hand! People in the U.S. can't handle a four way stop! It's right of way based and they can't even remember those simple rules! SHEESH!
Roundabouts are great when drivers actually use them as intended the problem is there are too many rude asshats to make them practical. Here where I live there are 6 of them, I cant count the times that I watch people just whip around them without even looking to see if other cars are coming or if there are other cars already waiting to turn into them. I had a guy plow into me at one last year, he claimed that since he had a yield sign at the entrance that meant I was supposed to stop in the middle of the loop for him...actually made the point to argue that in court when he was issued a ticket. Drivers around here are idiots though, thats why we now have stop lights at freeway on ramps...people were too stupid to realize that if you leave no room for cars to merge into traffic eventually you just create enough congestion that no one can go anywhere.
I'm from the US, but having driven in England, Scotland, and Ireland many times, I absolutely love roundabouts. I think they should be the default and city planners should have to show cause as to why stop signs or signals would be superior at a particular intersection. That said, it can be tricky when an ordinary 4-way intersection is marked as a roundabout with a small circle painted in the center, as in many places in the UK and Ireland - because you have someone in the intersection turning right in front of you when the intersection looks like you're going "straight". I think there are too many unskilled drivers here to adjust to that and we'll need a true center island in all our roundabouts. Second, I see Americans yielding not just to traffic in the roundabout but to cars coming from the side roads that are nowhere near, as though it is a traditional 4-way with no stop for cross-traffic. We need more education ...
Pull up to a 4-way stop. Just proceed with caution when it's you're turn... or is it?
Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.
Where I grew up in New Jersey, we had "circles" at big intersections. In a state with possibly the least considerate drivers on earth, it worked fine. It confused out of state drivers, but once you grasped the concept of yielding vs. stopping, spontaneous consideration wasn't required. They were replaced by traffic lights in the early 1990s. It's irritating waiting at a long traffic signal when the circle used to let me keep moving.
Roundabouts can only work when the direction of traffic flow puts the driver on the outer side of the circle. Talk about confusing, the only way they could be useful here in the land of right hand drive is to force counter clockwise access. Talk about Bubba in the large wheeled pick being confused.
That might be the dumbest post I have read here in that past six months. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundabout
Just wait until your government figures out they can just paint a big white circle on a junction and call it a 'mini-roundabout' - half the people approaching it treat it as a roundabout, the other half treat it as a junction. Hilarity/death ensues.
If we can put a man on the moon, why can't we shoot people for Apollo-related non-sequiturs?
On a motorcycle trip through Boston I entered a 2 lane traffic circle. A woman in the inside lane had her turn signal on and she was ahead so she had right of way. I gave her plenty of room to change lanes. She slowed down, so I slowed down. She slowed down bringing the whole circle nearly to a stop but she would not change lanes. My exit came up so I got off but I'm sure she went round and round that circle till she ran out of gas.
These is masses of data here in the UK, and it all says roundaboutses have fewer accidents than lights, and they are less serious accidents, and pass more traffic with less waiting. It has also been demonstrated that some junctions are safer and faster without any rules. (Mostly where traffic density is very high, and no one can reach 4MPH).
However, the UK has had roundabouts longer than any of today's drivers have been on the road, and we have a driving test that requires you to negotiate them safely, using your indicators correctly. Its true that some people ignore their training, and some have forgotten.
As I understand it, the test in America is "Have you got $50?" and does not require any knowledge or skill to pass it. It may be 75 years before Americans can use roundabouts safely. After all, many cannot change gear (or even lane) safely.
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