Microsoft Pulling the Plug On Windows XP In Three Years

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Microsoft Pulling the Plug On Windows XP In Three Years

Posted by Unknown on Tuesday July 12, 2011 @08:41AM from the kill-it-with-fire dept.

An anonymous reader wrote in with an article from myce. Microsoft will be discontinuing all support for Windows XP in Spring 2014. Coinciding with the announcement, Microsoft released a 1,000-day countdown gadget to help XP users pass the time until their IT departments get into gear. Maybe.

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Ummm by The+MAZZTer · 2011-07-12 08:42 · Score: 5, Funny

It can't help XP users pass the time since it requires Vista or 7!
1. Re:Ummm by Arancaytar · 2011-07-12 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah. Nice try, MS.
2. Re:Ummm by 0123456 · 2011-07-12 08:58 · Score: 3, Funny
  
  It can't help XP users pass the time since it requires Vista or 7!
  Does it run in Wine?
3. Re:Ummm by Spad · 2011-07-12 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  The ironing is delicious.
4. Re:Ummm by RiscIt · 2011-07-12 09:40 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  It's just the killer app they need to get everyone to upgrade!
5. Re:Ummm by anomaly256 · 2011-07-12 10:12 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  My favorite part is that it requires windows genuine advantage validation before letting you download such an inane, useless piece of software. Are they afraid of pirates knowing when XP hits EOL?
6. Re:Ummm by VortexCortex · 2011-07-12 10:26 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I wrote a JavaScript bookmarklet that displays days till the XP EOL.
  (Just so I could say things like: "Rob, we need approval for those upgrade licenses; we only have 1001.02432 days left")
7. Re:Ummm by dan_barrett · 2011-07-12 13:08 · Score: 1
  
  That's gold. Thanks for making our day!
8. Re:Ummm by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 13:55 · Score: 0
  
  The ironing is delicious.
  So you eat your laundry??
9. Re:Ummm by Bacon+Bits · 2011-07-12 15:42 · Score: 1
  
  I feel bad for Rob.
  
  --
  The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
10. Re:Ummm by thunderclap · 2011-07-12 16:24 · Score: 1
  
  its even better with spray starch!
11. Re:Ummm by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 21:04 · Score: 0
  
  http://countingsleeps.com/20140404T0000/end-of-Windows-XP-support
12. Re:Ummm by RockDoctor · 2011-07-13 02:01 · Score: 1
  
  I have this slightly horrifying image of you with your tongue stuck (sizzling nicely) to an iron.
  
  --
  Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Not a moment too soon! by Afforess · 2011-07-12 08:43 · Score: 5, Interesting

How many other companies are expected to maintain 10+ year old software, even after TWO new releases (Vista, Win7) are available?

--
If our elected representatives no longer represent us, do we still live in a Democracy?
1. Re:Not a moment too soon! by creat3d · 2011-07-12 08:45 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Companies that make operating systems used the world over in everything from personal desktops to enterprise-wide systems.
  
  --
  Grammar nazis are to this community what excrements are to gold.
2. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Osgeld · 2011-07-12 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  I dunno, how long did dos last ...
3. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Afforess · 2011-07-12 08:48 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Ubuntu does not maintains Long Term releases that long. Apple is notorious for dropping support for previous OS X versions (um, talk to the people trapped on OS X 10.4 due to the intel switch).
  
  Sorry buddy, your facts are wrong.
  
  --
  If our elected representatives no longer represent us, do we still live in a Democracy?
4. Re:Not a moment too soon! by 0123456 · 2011-07-12 08:51 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  How many other companies are expected to maintain 10+ year old software, even after TWO new releases (Vista, Win7) are available?
  Hmm, perhaps companies that were still selling that 'ten year old software' on new systems last year?
5. Re:Not a moment too soon! by jedidiah · 2011-07-12 08:53 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  It's not 10 years old if it was sold last year.
  Yeah. XP has been shipping on new machines until very recently due to the fiasco that was Vista.
  Your "age calculation" should start at when the product stopped shipping with new machines, not when it was first introduced.
  
  --
  A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
6. Re:Not a moment too soon! by mat+catastrophe · 2011-07-12 08:53 · Score: 1
  
  I thought 10.5 could run on PPC. All I know is, I can't buy a new printer for this damn thing without an OS upgrade and, frankly, that's stupid.
  
  --
  sig not found
7. Re:Not a moment too soon! by TheRaven64 · 2011-07-12 08:56 · Score: 2
  
  um, talk to the people trapped on OS X 10.4 due to the intel switch
  My PowerBook is running 10.5 quite happily.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
8. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 08:56 · Score: 0
  
  Ubuntu does not maintains Long Term releases that long. Apple is notorious for dropping support for previous OS X versions (um, talk to the people trapped on OS X 10.4 due to the intel switch).
  MS has an obligation just a little bigger than Ubuntu's or Apple's. Keep in mind:
  (Ubuntu install base * OS X install base) < MS Windows install base
9. Re:Not a moment too soon! by syousef · 2011-07-12 08:57 · Score: 1
  
  How many other companies are expected to maintain 10+ year old software, even after TWO new releases (Vista, Win7) are available?
  That just shows your ignorance. MANY MANY companies maintain software that is 10+ years old. Talk to anyone in IT in the Banking, Finance and Insurance sectors. Unless you throw a LOT of money at it (like NASA, aviation industry etc. - systems that must not fail else people die or millions are lost), software does not get bedded down and achieve stability for at least a couple of years. Even if all the major issues are right on day one (in practice this seldom happens) there are always minor differences between how a system is actually used and what was designed/envisioned. In the case of XP there have been 3 service packs in those 10 years.
  
  --
  These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
10. Re:Not a moment too soon! by powerlord · 2011-07-12 09:01 · Score: 2
  
  Yes, 10.5 can run on a PPC.
  10.6 is Intel only (and RosettaStone is an optional component, to be removed in 10.7)
  
  --
  This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
11. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Spad · 2011-07-12 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  Which version?
12. Re:Not a moment too soon! by confused+one · 2011-07-12 09:02 · Score: 2
  
  We have a lot of production software written to target Windows XP. We're still running some DOS software on Windows 98 boxes. The two of us working on this, part time, can not possibly move all the software to the Windows 7 platform by that time. Don't blame me, blame the short-sighted managment that has chosen to ignore all of my recommendations for the past 8 years.
13. Re:Not a moment too soon! by jcombel · 2011-07-12 09:03 · Score: 1
  
  yes, yes, he got his digit wrong, good thing you pointed that out (and got beaten to the punch by someone who didn't feel the need to be a douche).
  being snarky won't help you get 10.6 or 10.7 installed, nor will it make his point false.
14. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Spad · 2011-07-12 09:03 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Just like how my house is only 3 years old, because that's when I moved into it. I mean sure, it was built in the 60s, but that hardly counts.
15. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 09:06 · Score: 0
  
  Until one of the new releases is faster and more stable than the current product. That was....Vista SP1? SP2?
16. Re:Not a moment too soon! by TheRaven64 · 2011-07-12 09:09 · Score: 2
  
  The machine is 7 years old and shipped with OS X 10.2. For the last couple of years, it's not done anything except play music. I don't really have any problem with it not supporting 10.6 or 10.7. Not supporting 10.5 would have been a problem, because VLC dropped support for 10.4 a couple of years ago.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
17. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Pentium100 · 2011-07-12 09:13 · Score: 1
  
  There is a difference.
  Last year, some guy wet to a store and bought a new (made in last year) PC with an operating system. Now he is being told that his operating system is really old and will not be supported. Then why was it for sale as recently as last year?
  I'll try to make a house analogy.
  You bought a new house right after it was built. A few years later you find out that you need to replace all the wiring because it is too old, since while the house was new, the wire used was made 50 years ago.
18. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Darkness404 · 2011-07-12 09:13 · Score: 1
  
  Except for the fact that Ubuntu makes it pretty easy to upgrade to the next version by just clicking a button, the system requirements aren't increased and it is totally different than upgrading from XP to Vista/7. And yes, Apple is a hardware company primarily and wants people to buy new expensive hardware every couple of years so that makes sense for them to do that.
  
  --
  Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
19. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 09:13 · Score: 0
  
  So Microsoft is selling used software? Would you say your house is twenty years old because the plans were that old even if it was built three years ago.
20. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 09:14 · Score: 1
  
  Who cares, when Vista and 7 require more CPU, RAM, and hard disk space... Windows 2000 was the best thing since sliced bread, and despite blaster/etc, and the fact that it's now EOL, I would still continue to use it. Having said that, the only reason I'm using XP is because W2K is EOL.
  Put it this way. I can boot W2K on a P3 with 256MB of RAM and a 10GB hard drive. Seven DEMANDS 8GB, but after patching requires over 12GB. W2K booting to the desktop consumes under 128MB of RAM. Seven consumes over one gigabyte.
  All they do is bloat the crap out of it, change some UI elements and call it a new version. Don't get sucked into their money vacuum.
21. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 09:16 · Score: 0
  
  How many other companies are expected to maintain 10+ year old software, even after TWO new releases (Vista, Win7) are available?
  Dunno. Don't care. My desktop machine is still running Windows 2000 SP2 just fine and nobody in the IT department can change that. I have skipped repurchasing what were essentially the W2K re-releases known as XP, Vista, Windows 7, and will probably skip paying for Win2K again when Windows 8 comes out.
22. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2011-07-12 09:18 · Score: 1
  
  I think HP is still supporting OpenVMS through 2012.
23. Re:Not a moment too soon! by bberens · 2011-07-12 09:18 · Score: 1
  
  My personal experience is that upgrading Ubuntu via that button is a bit like using a Windows upgrade CD. It technically works, but winds up being more trouble than it's worth and you're better off doing a complete system rebuild.
  
  --
  Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
24. Re:Not a moment too soon! by kcbnac · 2011-07-12 09:19 · Score: 2
  
  Then they'll have to pay the price for not listening to their experts, and:
  A) hire more folk to migrate everything
  B) run 'unsecured' systems
  C) lock them down (more) as they'll be unpatched
  D) head for virtualization for the DOS/XP apps.
  E) Combination of Virtualization for the Win98 stuff, and compatibility mode for XP software.
  Time to start harping about that, if its gonna take that long.
25. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 09:23 · Score: 1
  
  Dunno, Sun (Oracle) does with Solaris. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solaris_%28operating_system%29#Version_history
  But generally, Microsoft and Sun are rare exceptions in this area, most OSs probably don't get 5 years of vendor support.
  Solaris 8 (SunOS 5.8) Released: February 2000 End of Support: March 2012
  Solaris 9 (SunOS 5.9) Released: May 28, 2002 End of Support: October 2014
  Solaris 10 (SunOS 5.10) Released: January 31, 2005 End of Support:
  Solaris 11 Express 2010.11 (SunOS 5.11) Released: November 15, 2010 - the support cycle here is a bit different, but still quite long for paying customers
26. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Nethemas+the+Great · 2011-07-12 09:23 · Score: 1
  
  Those that write software for the medical industry, air traffic control, electric power generation, military hardware, etc. etc.
  
  --
  Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
27. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  With Apple I cannot even upgrade to the Lion OS and I have an older Intel macbook (at the time the macbook was cheap based on its hardware feature set). The problem is it uses Core Duo processor. Lion requires Core 2 Duo. So if you want a machine for longer term, Apple will not cut it.
  On the other hand, Apple fanboys probably upgrade 3-4 times a year to the next revision so my point may be moot.
28. Re:Not a moment too soon! by AvitarX · 2011-07-12 09:28 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Like Dell?
  Even so, the system will be 3-5 years old by the time support is dropped. It will be worth $0 to the accountants.
  
  --
  Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
29. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Urkki · 2011-07-12 09:28 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Ubuntu does not maintains Long Term releases that long.
  Update from one LTS support to the 4 year later LTS version is generally painless. Ie. the support is there, you just have to click a few buttons to install it, and it'll most likely even run, just like that, click click. Upgrading Ubuntu (or other comparable Linux distro) is more like installing new service pack to a Windows OS, there's continuous upgrade path.
  Now try upgrading a basic WinXP computer from just 2008 (to compare to Ubuntu 8.04 LTS) to anything newer.
  But I do think MS does not have any obligation to support XP any longer than they think it's smart business-wise, and I'm rather surprised about how long they've supported XP. Commercial OS costs money, and it's unreasonable to expect indefinitely long support for a one-time payment.
30. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Osgeld · 2011-07-12 09:30 · Score: 1
  
  totally depends on the PPC G5 10.5 no problem G4 10.5 eh maybe, my 9600 apple said fuck you less than 2 years! (though if you fuck with it long enough you can get 10.2 on there, but why bother it runs brand new debian ppc and xfce faster than my work computer deals with XP just on 256 megs and a "upgrade" to a ati 7000
31. Re:Not a moment too soon! by creat3d · 2011-07-12 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  Ubuntu does not maintains Long Term releases that long. Apple is notorious for dropping support for previous OS X versions (um, talk to the people trapped on OS X 10.4 due to the intel switch). Sorry buddy, your facts are wrong.
  What facts? He was asking what should be EXPECTED.
  
  --
  Grammar nazis are to this community what excrements are to gold.
32. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · 2011-07-12 09:32 · Score: 1
  
  You bought a new house right after it was built. A few years later you find out that you need to replace all the wiring because it is too old, since while the house was new, the wire used was made 50 years ago.
  And in that case, of course I blame the wiring manufacturer, not the contractor that couldn't be bothered to use the (same cost) new wiring. Or maybe he used the wiring I demanded because I already knew how to use it and didn't want to figure out a fancy new circuit breaker. Actually, a circuit breaker panel is probably a better example because, while a pain, you can replace it without having to worry about screwing up the rest of the value of the house.
  
  --
  Your ad here. Ask me how!
33. Re:Not a moment too soon! by jimicus · 2011-07-12 09:33 · Score: 1
  
  Ubuntu does not maintains Long Term releases that long. Apple is notorious for dropping support for previous OS X versions (um, talk to the people trapped on OS X 10.4 due to the intel switch).
  Sorry buddy, your facts are wrong.
  Perhaps there's a reason Microsoft remain in their dominant position?
34. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 09:34 · Score: 0
  
  I think 5yrs after the last version that is 'sold' would be good. For open source software, 5yrs after initial release should be good.
35. Re:Not a moment too soon! by bigsexyjoe · 2011-07-12 09:37 · Score: 1
  
  Sure they do. Except instead of a "Service Pack" you just download the new version.
  
  --
  Democracy Now! - your daily, uncensored, corporate-free
36. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Lonewolf666 · 2011-07-12 09:38 · Score: 1
  
  Sounds familiar, the company I'm developing for is almost as backwards (but since this year, we're actually targeting Windows 7 instead of XP).
  Guessing from my experience to the situation of GP, they will probably end up with B), at least for some time. Maybe they can get away with it, because for a computer that is not on a network a lot of security issues go away.
  Virtualization for the DOS stuff may work, but that is not guaranteed. We have one DOS software left ourselves, and have tried DosBox and VirtualPC for it. Works most of the time, but not as reliable as "real" DOS. Finally, I'd be surprised if they cannot make most of the XP software work with some adjustment of the user rights.
  
  --
  C - the footgun of programming languages
37. Re:Not a moment too soon! by paziek · 2011-07-12 09:41 · Score: 1
  
  You bought PowerBook just to play music? Wow...
38. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 09:57 · Score: 0
  
  Last year, some guy wet to a store and bought a new (made in last year) PC with an operating system. Now he is being told that his operating system is really old and will not be supported.
  In three years... And yes, it is indeed very old.
39. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 10:00 · Score: 1
  
  Your comparisons are Mac OSX and Ubuntu? Let's talk *real* operating systems used in real enterprises:
  HPUX 11iv1 and 11iv3 both have/had a lifetime of 13 years. 11iv2 10 years. These include 10 years of v1/v3 overlap, 6 years of v2/v3 overlap.
  AIX 5.3 has an 8-year lifetime. The first two years overlapped with AIX 5.1, the first 5 years with AIX 5.2.
  Solaris 9 has a 12-year lifetime. 9 of those years overlap with Solaris 10, which is 7 years old and still going.
40. Re:Not a moment too soon! by TheRaven64 · 2011-07-12 10:00 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  No, I bought it to do work. It served that purpose well for three years. By the end of that time, the 1.25GHz G4 CPU was starting to feel a bit slow, and it got relegated to being the spare machine, with a new MacBook Pro taking over as my main computer. It was used as a spare when the MBP's hard drive broke a couple of years later and I had to work on it for a few days while the MBP was being repaired, but since then it's been sitting connected to my living room speakers playing music or sleeping, and very occasionally playing YouTube videos or flash animations.
  On eBay, similar models sell for about a hundred quid, so it's not worth selling it and buying some dedicated device. As a laptop, it uses very little power, and can suspend and resume well, so it's a competent device for this.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
41. Re:Not a moment too soon! by inject_hotmail.com · 2011-07-12 10:00 · Score: 1
  
  Software doesn't decay like your house does, jackass.
42. Re:Not a moment too soon! by shutdown+-p+now · 2011-07-12 10:02 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed - hence why XP is maintained longer than OS X and Ubuntu.
  You just can't expect it to be indefinitely long, though.
43. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Darinbob · 2011-07-12 10:07 · Score: 1
  
  When you have a product that customers still use and demand, why not decide to keep customers happy instead of migrating them to an inferior product?
44. Re:Not a moment too soon! by confused+one · 2011-07-12 10:18 · Score: 1
  
  Virtualization won't work. It's a manufacturing production environment with instrumentation hanging off of the computers. Virtualization does not provide the necessary hardware interface / drivers.
45. Re:Not a moment too soon! by LordLimecat · 2011-07-12 10:18 · Score: 1
  
  I very recently was going to make a snarky comment about XPs support vs Linux, and then I realized that kernel 2.4 (that one thats basically considered obsolete in non-embedded deployments) was the latest thing only 7-8 years ago-- kernel 2.6 is younger than XP is (and for that matter, 2.4 might be as well).
46. Re:Not a moment too soon! by LordLimecat · 2011-07-12 10:20 · Score: 1
  
  Ubuntu's releases are also measured on the order of months, not years. They certainly dont support some of their LTSes that are younger than vista-- is Edgy Eft still supported? (thats october 2006)?
47. Re:Not a moment too soon! by LordLimecat · 2011-07-12 10:24 · Score: 1
  
  All true points except the "pretty easy" part. I might be willing to do the upgrade myself, but I cant imagine recommending that a non-techie friend click that upgrade button without my help-- who knows how many things would break, or have the upgrade process halt because its waiting for you to figure out which grub.cfg you want, etc.
48. Re:Not a moment too soon! by confused+one · 2011-07-12 10:27 · Score: 1
  
  Time to start harping about that, if its gonna take that long.
  You're not saying anything I haven't brought up before, in fact you missed a couple of points. Doesn't matter what I say, management thinks they know what they're doing so they make their choices. Stuff breaks and then they act surprised, even though I have email going back to 2003 documenting these discussions.
  As it is, I'm about to bail. I've had enough of being ignored then being held accountable. To top it all off, the pay is bad (so, chances of them hiring more folks are close to zero).
49. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Billly+Gates · 2011-07-12 10:28 · Score: 1
  
  "How many other companies are expected to maintain 10+ year old software, even after TWO new releases (Vista, Win7) are available?"
  The same people who LOVE IE 6.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
50. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 10:29 · Score: 0
  
  The reason people are grumpy about this is because Vista and 7 are terrible products compared to XP. (Yes, under the hood a lot improved, but we use 7 at work and I can tell you that it doesn't matter how much you improve your kernel if your shell sucks.) And from what I've seen 8 is going to be even worse.
  For many people, the moment support for XP is dropped, a very nasty choice is forced upon them:
  * Downgrade to Vista, 7 or 8 and experience a significant usability loss?
  * Migrate to Linux (or BSD or possibly even ReactOS) with all the pain that entails?
  * Or stick with Windows XP and trust your virus scanner and firewall to protect you from any new exploits?
51. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 10:30 · Score: 1
  
  Red Hat offers 7 years standard for Red Hat Enterprise Linux and then you can get an additional 3 years on top of that. So if you are in the business that needs that for some particular reason there you go. GNU/Linux distributions are both free to upgrade and easier to upgrade generally speaking that is. So this really doesn't apply.
52. Re:Not a moment too soon! by toejam13 · 2011-07-12 10:30 · Score: 2
  
  You see this a bit more in the mainframe and server world. Releases see very long support cycles, often exceeding a decade. However, updates are usually limited to break/fix and security patches as opposed to feature enhancements. Much of that comes from the conservative nature of those environments. The premium pricing of product and support contracts reflects that environment.
  For desktop and workstation markets, a decade is a long time. Microsoft is well within its rights to reallocate those resources from the XP team for other projects. Sure, many applications still work under Windows XP. But the same argument could be made about Windows 2K. Heck, the majority of my productivity applications run under NT4SP6 with a few tweaks. Doesn't mean that I should still be running NT4.
  Having said that, I do have a double standard about being able to use old stuff. While I believe that people should be upgrading their software, I do believe that people should be able to keep their older hardware (within reason). Keeping that stuff out of landfills is a good thing, and many people with limited budgets are more than happy to have it.
  I wish that Microsoft would have released a consumer version of its Windows 7 Thin Client Edition. Windows 7 Home Edition will work with something as old as a Pentium-II/266 or K6/266 (you need an ACPI compliant motherboard, a DirectX 9 video card and enough memory), but it chugs a bit (I wouldn't recommend anything less than 500MHz). Having a version where the compiler is tuned for older procs and smaller memory footprints, while having non-essential programs and services disabled would help. I assume they don't do it because people that cheap would refuse to pay for an OS, and I assume Microsoft wouldn't discount their OS enough for them to bite.
53. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 10:44 · Score: 0
  
  How many companies release inferior new versions? Windows 7 sux!
  The advantage of XP is ten years of bug fixes and security fixes. Why would anyone want to go through another 10 years of security holes again? Windows 7 offer nothing new accept a bloated GUI interface.
  How about replace CFS (still using 1988's technology with Netbios) with a real network file system? Freaking 1988 technology! WTF!
  If Microsoft made cars:
  All models would be subcompact cars with the fuel economy of a Abrams M-1 Tank
  Small rain showers would crash the car no matter how good the driver is
  Thieves would all have master keys to steal the car at anytime
  Recall notices would be issued every two weeks
54. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 10:44 · Score: 0
  
  You bought a new house right after it was built. A few years later you find out that you need to replace all the wiring because it is too old, since while the house was new, the wire used was made 50 years ago.
  You'd have a legitimate grievance there, but as with Microsoft, your problem is with the person who put the house together, not the company that made the wire.
55. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Pentium100 · 2011-07-12 10:48 · Score: 1
  
  It depends.
  If the contractor used old wire just because he liked it then yes. If the 50 year old wire was the only wire that was good quality (newer wire tends to catch fire and not always works with some devices) then the company would be to blame, since the contractor used the best wire he could get.
56. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Wingman+5 · 2011-07-12 11:03 · Score: 1
  
  Guessing from my experience to the situation of GP, they will probably end up with B), at least for some time. Maybe they can get away with it, because for a computer that is not on a network a lot of security issues go away.
  That may used to be true, however modem day malware frequently will spread via laptops moved in and out of the network (see Conficker) or via usb drives (see Stuxnet). Computers with no network access can still be easily infected.
57. Re:Not a moment too soon! by LO0G · 2011-07-12 11:13 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  And Microsoft will continue to support Windows XP. It's just not going to be providing FREE support, you'll have to have a custom support agreement.
  Custom support agreements can go on a LONG time
58. Re:Not a moment too soon! by nothings · 2011-07-12 11:15 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  An operating system is not like other software; it hosts other software. I shouldn't be forced to reinstall all my software every ten years, or five years, or two years. I shouldn't be forced to switch to a new version of the software that controls my access to all my other software if that new version has a different UI that forces me to relearn all sorts of new UI shortcuts, to abandon helpful utilities and add-ons that I've acquired or developed, etc. etc.
  Of course it's not just Microsoft; Firefox has fucking up that last one with nearly ever major release.
  I dunno, maybe I'm just an old fuddy-duddy or something, but after eighteen years of regular OS "must have" upgrades every couple years, yeah, I'm comfortable saying it's a huge fucking waste of my time, and it is stupid, and yes they should support the old versions.
  If upgrading to new versions didn't involve changing the user experience and didn't require reinstalling everything, then it would be no different than a patch or service pack, except it would cost money and have a new version number... and that would be fine with me. (It's still lame to have to pay 50-200 dollars every couple years, but I could live with that at least. But that's not what's on the table.)
59. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 11:17 · Score: 0
  
  Why should companies be able to prevent users from maintaining their own software? Copyright law wasn't originally intended to allow them to do this.
60. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 11:17 · Score: 0
  
  Oh, you bought your house straight from the builder last year?
61. Re:Not a moment too soon! by JAlexoi · 2011-07-12 11:25 · Score: 1
  
  I bet your house\s walls and roof are from the 60'ies. But everything else should be no older than 20 years, unless the pipes are really really good...
  But then again, if the seller of your house told you the house was new, then that's another story. And that is exactly what MS resellers were telling. They weren't selling a 10 y/o refurbished computer...
62. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Billly+Gates · 2011-07-12 11:25 · Score: 1
  
  In all seriousness after my other post, I sadly have to say not only is their still 10+ year old software is still maintained, but rather still actively developed that requires IE 6/XP being sold today!
  Customers ask these software companies to make it run for IE 6 and it is misinterpreted as a make sure it only runs runs on IE 6. Never it is HTML 4.01 with CSS 2. The problem is 2 fold:
  1. Companies in 2011 are being run by accountants turned MBA's vs engineers turned MBA's 2 decades ago. There job is only to cut costs and boast the price of the stock on Wall Street. In addition, they only will invest in software that will increase its sales or provide a ROI. Modern software does not being in more revenue so unless it magically makes more money and people work more productively they will avoid it and live in 2001.
  2. Companies like Oracle and many intranet providers love double and tripple dipping their customers. If I were an executive at these firms I would encourage IE 6 only code, then double dip my clients again to support IE 7, then tripple for IE 8 and so on so on ... I think Oracle should not still be developing software that requires activeX and IE 6, but they are either too cheap or plan to double dip its customers.
  I am split on this. It pisses me off as these users are forcing all of us back from using cool HTML 5 features that we see with smartphones and could of had already for years on the desktop if it were not for these PHB's having such a sway in what webmasters develop. Same is true for gamers as Windows XP directX 9 with crappy integrated graphics almost killed the pc compared to the console. You can't tell 1 out of 10 users to go to hell if you owned a resturaunt or store so that means target your site for IE 6 and earlier and too hell with Chrome users.
  On the otherhand, I am now 34 and older and more mature than I was when I was a gamer, with a business degree and see the phb's and accountants point of view. Windows 3.11 was next to useless for multitasking and was a hinderance with productivity. Windows 95 and even Windows XP offered cost savings and productivity gains. What can Windows 7 or 8 do that I can not with XP? The secretaries can type just as fast in Word 2000 as Word 2010 right? Cost center ... waste of money etc. I would rather have a business hire more workers in this economy than waste it buying new pcs that at most can boot 2 minutes quicker with a shinnier AERO interface.
  More than likely, I think we are just maturing. After cars (slashdotters hate this analogy) began maturing around the time of the model T, you did not have to keep upgrading and fixing them. People starting keeping them for years after they were reliable and did standard things like have windshield wipers and could go more than 15 mph. Computers are a century behind them.
  With IPADs and smartphones mixed with IE 9 =>, Chrome, and Firefox 4= >, we are finally going to see upgrades and pressure on the PHB's to upgrade. But to answer your question yes, if a vendor supports a product for a long time then that business will keep using it almost indefinetely. Sometimes if the company is large enough they will run bulky old emulators to run IE 6 or even old 1970's IBM 370 software written 30 years ago! Why not? They are a business after all and not a fun charity for its workers to play with new toys. So hopefully they will cut support soon then.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
63. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Belial6 · 2011-07-12 11:28 · Score: 1
  
  Except that you don't count how long since the first release of software for support. You count how long since the LAST date it was sold. MS was still licensing the sale of XP in 2009. That makes XP 2 years old for anyone that bought a machine with it running at that time. It doesn't matter if a company has been selling a perticular version for 30 years. If they sold you a copy last week, and cut off support today, they are behaving badly and are worse than the company that was first sold 6 years ago, and guts off support after 5 years.
  
  Is 2014 a fair cut off date? That is debatable, but claiming that it is 10+ years old is not valid.
64. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 11:40 · Score: 0
  
  No, more like your frame was built in 2010 but your interior decorator went with the shaggy carpet 60's look.
65. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 11:41 · Score: 0
  
  System requirements aren't increased? I'm pretty sure the Ubuntu install disc won't boot with less than 128 MB RAM these days, when 4.10 required 32 MB RAM. And even then Windows XP is 3 years older than Ubuntu 4.10
66. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Belial6 · 2011-07-12 11:51 · Score: 1
  
  Frequently buying new hardware is cheaper than keeping the old stuff. The energy costs savings can frequently mean that buying a brand new computer is cheaper than running the old one. My last two upgrade cycles took me from 200 watts to 120 watts to 50 watts. Each time the system I replaced them with was dramatically more powerful than the one before it. I just watched a demo of Crysis running an an AtomD520. I haven't seen the power profile on it, but my Atom N270 runs at under 20 watts and would run circles around a P2 or K6.
67. Re:Not a moment too soon! by WorBlux · 2011-07-12 11:51 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe by then 2013 ReactOS will be at a stable release or at least a general beta phase. When finished it should be ABI compatible with windows XP.
68. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 12:17 · Score: 0
  
  Over the winter I replaced some 10 year old in-house software because I had some ideas for new features.
  I fixed a bug in some other in-house software last week which is 15 years old.
  We support several products which are 15 years old.
69. Re:Not a moment too soon! by isama · 2011-07-12 12:27 · Score: 0
  
  It can, look into VT-D, it's awesome.
70. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Bing+Tsher+E · 2011-07-12 12:36 · Score: 1
  
  That kind of gear just needs to be firewalled in good and tight and maintained. Why wouldn't you just archive the full chain-of-software installation media and keep it going? You can still buy about anything you want in hardened industrial-grade hardware, ISA buses and the whole mess, at the kind of high prices that industrial-grade hardware commands.
71. Re:Not a moment too soon! by LynnwoodRooster · 2011-07-12 12:57 · Score: 1
  
  My 10 year old Dell Optiplex is running Windows 7 without a problem... It's not real speedy, but as a Squeezebox and printer server, and backup machine it's doing quite well.
  
  --
  Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
72. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 13:08 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah, just ask Debian.
73. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Billly+Gates · 2011-07-12 13:14 · Score: 1
  
  I was going to say I would leave. The economy is going down the shitter again, and it maybe months before you land another job. I would start rather sooner or later and with people about to be laid off from this next recession starting they should have no problem filling the position sadly.
  Many embedded and specialized systems use FreeDOS and it might be an idea. No you wont have support, but management frankly doesn't care. It seems your job is the support anyway. Management thinks their pcs are fine so Windows must be fine all the time too and if not well I wonder what confused one, did now etc.
  You can't win in that kind of environment. If you have been there for 8 years you have the experience hopefully to land something elsewhere.
  
  --
  http://saveie6.com/
74. Re:Not a moment too soon! by toejam13 · 2011-07-12 13:27 · Score: 1
  
  I generally agree with your statement, but there are a few variables that can make it false. If you don't operate the computer for long periods of time or if your utility rates are low or nil, then the long-term power savings may not be worth it, especially if the legacy hardware was incredibly inexpensive or free.
  Then you have the minority of people who like their computer to be a space heater. Any reduction in radiated heat from their PC will be countered by a ceramic space heater. A story a few years back noted how natural gas use in Canada was up because so many people switched to CFL and the central heating systems had to compensate.
75. Re:Not a moment too soon! by rtb61 · 2011-07-12 13:54 · Score: 1
  
  After all those years they still haven't managed to fix all the bugs in it, hmm, now that is truly bad software. Realistically support should only finish once they have fixed 'ALL' the discovered bugs otherwise they should offer a refund for their failure to fix their buggy software after a decade of slap dash efforts. In the interim supply a replacement that was worse, which they had to replace with a pretend new version which was just a major patch up. Seems sensible to buy as old a version of windows software as you can available on the market to get it as free of bugs as possible.
  
  --
  Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
76. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 13:56 · Score: 0
  
  Your analogy doesn't work because a houses deteriorate. A piece of software written 5, 10, even 40 years ago, will still function exactly as it did the day it was written.
77. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 14:00 · Score: 0
  
  We have a lot of production software written to target Windows XP. We're still running some DOS software on Windows 98 boxes. The two of us working on this, part time, can not possibly move all the software to the Windows 7 platform by that time. Don't blame me, blame the short-sighted managment that has chosen to ignore all of my recommendations for the past 8 years.
  > I love xp so hard, and it will survive !!!
78. Re:Not a moment too soon! by yuhong · 2011-07-12 14:00 · Score: 1
  
  And who stagnated their OS (along with the browser it shipped with) for five years! (the Longhorn delays certainly didn't help here)
  Actually, there was XP SP2 in 2004 which could be considered a point release.
79. Re:Not a moment too soon! by NJRoadfan · 2011-07-12 14:12 · Score: 1
  
  Your 9600 with a G3/G4 upgrade and some RAM can run 10.4 just fine.
80. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Amouth · 2011-07-12 14:17 · Score: 1
  
  i'd love to see your math justifying that.
  looking at a current setup vs an older one.. if i where to cut power from 240 watts to 120 watts for a 1000$ box the pay off is ~10 years to break even.
  now if this is a constant full use scientific computer the boost in performance can be factored in and make the pay off shorter - but for the average box that has winXP on it the usage is minimal - and i just don't see a 10 year pay off being reasonable.
  
  --
  '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
81. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Belial6 · 2011-07-12 15:12 · Score: 1
  
  240 - 120 = 120 watts x 24 hours = 2880 watt hours per day / 1000 = 2.88 kwh per day x $0.32/kwh = $0.9216/day x 550 days = $506.88. if you haven't upgraded in a couple of years, a $500 computer is going to be noticeably faster than anything you would have bought previously.
  
  The numbers get even crazier if you are upgrading from something like a P4. A low end Atom will outpace a P4. I bought an Intel Atom based Acer Revo a couple of years ago for $300. The machine idles at 12 watts. It maxes out under full load at 20 watts. If you are running an old P4 that is pulling 240 watts, the calculation goes like this:
  
  240 - 20 = 220 watts x 24 hours = 5280 watt hours per day / 1000 = 5.28 kwh per day x $0.32/kwh = $1.6896/day x 178 days = $300.75. That is less than 6 months to completely pay for the new computer.
82. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 15:13 · Score: 0
  
  How many other companies are expected to maintain 10+ year old software, even after TWO new releases (Vista, Win7) are available?
  If the software still does exactly what you need it to do, then time in use is irrelevant (barring security concerns)
  Vista and Win7 are not "new releases" in the sense of an upgraded XP OS, like Ubuntu 8 VS 9. They are entirely new implementations. The software applications used in conjunction with XP in a business may or may not be as useful, or even available under Vista or Win7.
83. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 16:12 · Score: 0
  
  I think 10 years is a long time to support a mainstream operating system. I'm a Mac user, but I have to give Microsoft credit for how long they support their operating systems, it is unrivalled for a mainstream desktop operating system.
  You seem to be demanding indefinite support for a product that you paid for once, which costs Microsoft money to provide. If you want Microsoft to continue supporting XP for an, in my opinion, unreasonable amount of time, perhaps you should be willing to pay for it after a certain point?
  XP came out in the first year of the Bush Administration for crying out loud.
84. Re:Not a moment too soon! by mat+catastrophe · 2011-07-12 16:34 · Score: 1
  
  OK, I thought I was going completely stupid.
  Still, I am increasingly annoyed with Apple (and the rest of the computing world, I guess). I never bought 10.5 because I was either broke or lazy (depends on which year it came out).
  Now, when I might actually want to upgrade, I'm not even sure where I could find a legitimate copy of 10.5. And, unless I'm just missing something, I won't even be able to get applications from Apple pretty soon, as they are moving to the MacAppStore thing and so older users will just be shut out. We won't even talk about how the new Firefox is not even for 10.5 and up, but also for Intel machines. What the hell? Will I just be unable to even browse the net with this machine next year?
  It's not even like M$, who at least put out these notices, "Hey, dimwits, we won't support you in three years". They just reinvent the damn wheel every six to nine months and up yours if you can't keep up.
  I think I missed the intel switch by about six months, as it was.
  
  --
  sig not found
85. Re:Not a moment too soon! by BKX · 2011-07-12 16:57 · Score: 1
  
  Where the hell do you live that electricity is so ungodly expensive? I pay $.09/kWh, and that's with a 7% from last year.
86. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Amouth · 2011-07-12 17:25 · Score: 1
  
  exactly i pay ~$.065/kWh with a time of use meeter..
  to Belial6:
  also the argument that an Atom will outpace a P4 is flawed - it depends on what your doing.. and depends on the Atom you choose - dual core yes.. single core not so much.
  
  --
  '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
87. Re:Not a moment too soon! by man_of_mr_e · 2011-07-12 17:42 · Score: 1
  
  No, it decays differently. As security flaws are found in software, they need patches to keep them from being compromised. A 10 year old OS from any vendor is swiss cheese today without patches. The question is, how long must the vendor keep patching?
  
  --
  If you need web hosting, you could do worse than here
88. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Belial6 · 2011-07-12 17:45 · Score: 1
  
  California. The first 300 kwh are $0.12. The next 100 kwh are $0.14 after that 400-600 kwh is $0.29, then you hit $0.32, $0.37, $0.42...
  
  Even at $0.09/kwh the math still works out.
89. Re:Not a moment too soon! by walshy007 · 2011-07-12 17:49 · Score: 1
  
  Ubuntu does not maintains Long Term releases that long.
  Ubuntu has not even existed for that long, I still remember its first release, primarily because even though I did not care for it they sent me a whole box of pressed cds to distribute amongst those likely to want to use it.
  But more to the point, the packages from back in 2000 generally are still supported now, I mean take the linux kernel, if you have a bug with a certain piece of functionality or the like you can report it to the maintainer and it will generally be dealt with. It's the whole rolling release business in general. There is no reason not to run the latest as it is always incremental improvements, kind of like service packs for windows. Running old packages yields no support, but even with microsoft if you are running xp you were out of luck a long time ago if you want xp sp 0 supported.
90. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Belial6 · 2011-07-12 17:52 · Score: 1
  
  OK, I looked it up. The P4 is equivalent to the Atom. Some faster, some slower. But they are in the same league at a good cost savings for a lot of people, and we are talking about people who don't really care about speed. If speed is the issue, my Intel Q8300 tops out at 50 watts and is in a totally different class than the P4. So, whether a speed upgrade at a small savings, or staying the same speed for a larger savings, buying new equipment is what a lot of people should be doing if they want to spend the least amount of money.
91. Re:Not a moment too soon! by rubycodez · 2011-07-12 18:02 · Score: 1
  
  Hohoho. Your 1980s PC software will generally puke with Y2K issues now.
92. Re:Not a moment too soon! by rubycodez · 2011-07-12 18:07 · Score: 1
  
  sounds nice in theory, but new machines won't have the ports and accept the IO cards old ones will. Some wares can't function with a clock rate that is too fast, or they require old type of hard drive.
93. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Compaqt · 2011-07-12 18:10 · Score: 1
  
  Have you tried FreeDOS?
  
  --
  I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
94. Re:Not a moment too soon! by rubycodez · 2011-07-12 18:19 · Score: 1
  
  those are actually short time intervals compared to the big iron, where you can run 30-40 year old OS and its apps under the current descendant system. Like 1974 MVS and its apps can run under Z/OS today. or run a late 60s DOS and apps under your Z/VSE. Or run your Burroughs MCP stuff from 1969 on a ClearPath mainframe today. You don't tell fortune 1000 companies or the banking system they have to throw away a twenty year old mission critical app, they'll bitch slap your face onto the nearest wall.
95. Re:Not a moment too soon! by rubycodez · 2011-07-12 18:26 · Score: 1
  
  2.4 had a nice long run though, I just looked at the change logs starting with 2.4.1 in Jan 31, 2001 until the last one in Dec 18 2010, 2.4.37.11
96. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Compaqt · 2011-07-12 18:26 · Score: 1
  
  Would you care to elaborate what your setups were at 200, 120, and 50 watts? Curious.
  
  --
  I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
97. Re:Not a moment too soon! by rubycodez · 2011-07-12 18:59 · Score: 1
  
  naw, you are thinking of support for the old 6.2 and 7.3-2 on Alpha only, which HP say supported at least through end of 2012 (may go longer)
  
  The current version 8.4 for both alpha and integrity just came out middle of last year, and though no end dates even announced yet, typical is 5 years support plus 5 more extended engineering support available.
  
  http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/pdf/openvms_roadmaps.pdf
  
  (among other things, my employer requires me to be an Hp certified Integrity Application Integration Specialist (AIS), so we can sell the damn things)
98. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 19:39 · Score: 0
  
  Dude relax. No one's going to force you to switch to a new version of Windows. Microsoft is just going to stop support for WinXP.
99. Re:Not a moment too soon! by bloodhawk · 2011-07-12 19:46 · Score: 1
  
  No one is forcing you to do anything, They are simply saying you no longer get support from them for any problems you may face with it, you can still use XP 50 years from now if you want.
100. Re:Not a moment too soon! by luther349 · 2011-07-12 19:51 · Score: 1
  
  7 wasent a new releses it was vista sp1. not calling 7 bad its just vista was sutch a trianwreck relese they had to change the name.
101. Re:Not a moment too soon! by luther349 · 2011-07-12 19:53 · Score: 1
  
  not with windows its not like linux where you cxan swap out the entire core and say im up2date. think like xps kernel can not be upgraded so the core system is 10 years old.
102. Re:Not a moment too soon! by luther349 · 2011-07-12 19:55 · Score: 1
  
  you might like the new rolling relese linux distros. install once and as long as you update them thats it.
103. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 20:08 · Score: 0
  
  You sent your computer to get repaired over a dead drive? WTF? You could have bought a new drive for like $50 and had the computer up and running within an hour.
104. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Belial6 · 2011-07-12 20:21 · Score: 1
  
  I didn't say that it NEVER makes sense to keep an old machine, but is less common than people think. Most of the things that would have been on cards in the past are built on the motherboard now, and programs that wont run on a faster machine are pretty few and far between. Generally, the situation you describe is on machines that have been hooked to some unusual hardware like special scientific equipment. It isn't generally an issue on desktops.
105. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 20:22 · Score: 0
  
  I use Pro/Engineer Wildifre 3.0 daily, and it was released back in 2005 if I recall correct. Because some of my clients are VERY conservative, and for good reasons.
  That is only six years old, but the thing is that it will not work on anything newer than XP. Hopefully though, within 1000 days my clients will have upgraded their ProE version a few notches up, but I am not holding my breath. It took them a decade to move from Catia v4 to v5.
106. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Belial6 · 2011-07-12 20:31 · Score: 1
  
  The 50 watt unit is a cheap $500 Gateway SX2802, It has Intel Core 2 Quad core, and GMA X4500 graphics. The previous one was an Athlon II X3 with an ATI video card. A 4950 if I remember correctly. The 200 watt unit was an Athlon something or other and an nVidia graphics. It's been 5 or 6 years, so I don't remember the specific models.
107. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 20:56 · Score: 0
  
  Because not many other large companies have succeeded in bringing out not one, but two new releases that have got more issues than IT want to deal with.... namely: "Vista", and "more Vista" (aka 'Seven' - i.e 7xVista).
  And MS are sadly moving even further away from what people want with the noises we hear of Windows"8". IT want stability and something simple to control, not a raging multi-media-headed beast that looks like a security seive and is not secure (trustworthy) for in-house computing.
108. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 21:01 · Score: 0
  
  But if your house kept crashing like Windows ...
109. Re:Not a moment too soon! by TheRaven64 · 2011-07-12 21:16 · Score: 1
  
  It was under warranty. They collect it, fix it, and send it back - turn around is 2-3 days. Not sure where you think I could have got a replacement laptop drive for $50 from. Ones of that capacity were about $100 via the Internet (delivery time, up to a week). Locally, I don't know of anywhere that sells laptop drives, certainly not at a reasonable price (there are a few places that might sell them, but they ship so few that they're likely to be selling them at last year's prices).
  So, if I'd repaired it myself, it would have taken about as long, cost more, and taken up a lot more of my time. Great idea!
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
110. Re:Not a moment too soon! by TheRaven64 · 2011-07-12 21:25 · Score: 1
  
  At some point, it just isn't worth it. I have a ThinkPad from the same era that I haven't turned on for over a year. It and the Mac both run most of the things that I need, and most of them are fast enough. Unfortunately, work involves a lot of big compile jobs (both LaTeX and [Objective-]C[++]), which hammer the CPU pretty hard. My main computer needs to be fast, and I don't have a great deal of use for other computers. A couple play music, but that's about it. I went from having half a dozen computers that I used regularly to one laptop and one server - and the server is a hosted VM. There's very little I can do on the PowerBook or the ThinkPad that I can't do in a VM on the MacBook Pro.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
111. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 21:33 · Score: 0
  
  hey thick apple user - we don't care - fuck off from this website!
112. Re:Not a moment too soon! by perryizgr8 · 2011-07-12 22:49 · Score: 1
  
  Ubuntu does not maintains Long Term releases that long. Apple is notorious for dropping support for previous OS X versions (um, talk to the people trapped on OS X 10.4 due to the intel switch).
  MS has an obligation just a little bigger than Ubuntu's or Apple's. Keep in mind:
  (Ubuntu install base * OS X install base) < MS Windows install base
  you probably want to add that, not multiply. otherwise its not comparison, its just random numbers.
  
  --
  Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
113. Re:Not a moment too soon! by perryizgr8 · 2011-07-12 22:50 · Score: 1
  
  you don't want your non-techie friend to RUN ubuntu.
  
  --
  Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
114. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-13 00:52 · Score: 0
  
  Who cares if it'll be worth $0 to accountants? Companies frequently keep assets past full depreciation (and dispose of them later at a profit), and just as frequently dispose of items that still have value on the books at a loss. What accountants estimate a a future value to be is meaningless to the real-world, except as is shown in financial statements.
115. Re:Not a moment too soon! by 0ld_d0g · 2011-07-13 00:53 · Score: 1
  
  Well.. technically Microsoft does not sell PCs. The complaint should be with the vendor that sold him a soon-to-be obsolete OS installed on the PC he bought.
  Unless .. we're going to let microsoft have more control over what OEMs install on their PC's .. That didn't work out too well for them :P
116. Re:Not a moment too soon! by powerlord · 2011-07-13 03:48 · Score: 1
  
  Well for OSX 10.5 (Leopard) you can pick up a "full" copy on Amazon for $185, or an upgrade DVD for $130.
  You could always see if a friend has a full installation/upgrade DVD (not tied to specific hardware) that they no longer need (moved on to Snow Leopard perhaps?) but that may be more legally grey. Apple was kind enough to not include License checks on the OS DVDs, since they are more focussed on Hardware.
  The last PowerPC units were sold (I think) in first quarter 2006, and 10.6 (Snow Leopard) was released in Aug. of 2009. That means (at best) you can run a 5 year old computer, with a 2 year old OS, which, depending on what you want it to do should last you until the hardware stops working (its not like your current version of Word/iTunes/whatever will suddenly stop working).
  To be fair, there is a huge difference between OS upgrades and full hardware switches. The speed difference between PPC vs. Intel alone might make it worth while to upgrade your hardware to something more recent (or wait till they release OS X 10.7).
  Buying a new computer every 5-7 years is not too much of a pain (or outside the mainstream for those who need/require the latest software), but I can understand how missing the transition by 6 months left a bad taste in your mouth.
  
  --
  This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
117. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-13 04:26 · Score: 0
  
  St. David's Round Rock hospital is still running XP Pro system-wide for desktops...
  Trauma, Emergency room, ICU...all using a 10 year old operating system to run their hospital.
  I would imagine the IT guys drink to excess.
118. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-13 04:58 · Score: 0
  
  An OS becomes incompatable with new software over the years. Your house doesn't become incompatable with new furniture. I can throw a brand new sofa into a hundred year old house if I want.
119. Re:Not a moment too soon! by BKX · 2011-07-13 06:03 · Score: 1
  
  Holy fucking shit! That's ridiculous. Of course, it makes my buddy's turning down a promotion make much more sense. He gets $50k here in Grand Rapids, MI, and was offered a promotion in San Francisco for $70k and had to turn in down because it resulted in a net loss of income when you take cost of living into account. Of course, in addition to cheap electricity, we have cheap water (like $3/100cf), cheap natural gas, and cheap housing ($700/mo will get you a 2br/1200sqft apartment in a reasonable neighborhood, $40k will get that as a house; my 700 sqft/ 1.5br house cost me $7500 cash plus $1k/yr in property taxes, utilities average $100/mo over the year and insurance is only $400/yr). I knew this area was cheap but I guess I didn't realize just how nice we have it.
120. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-13 07:04 · Score: 0
  
  "I'm old and I don't like change."
  Very little is removed from xp in 7, there is lots that is new and the whole system is much more stable. I find new things exciting, I change my phone OS every couple of months for a change. Keeping things the same just feels stagnant...
121. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Belial6 · 2011-07-13 07:10 · Score: 1
  
  Yes and no. Living in California is expensive. True. The upside is that for the most part, our pay scales are higher also. This means that if you can save 10% of your income for retirement her, it is dramatically more than saving 10% of your income in cheaper parts of the country. In the short run, there is no benefit, but when it is time to retire, Californians can move to the less expensive places in the country and live like kings because their modest California retirement is twice what the same % of savings would be in the retirement location.
  
  I certainly have considered moving to a less expensive location, but that is a BIG decision. Moving out of CA is easy. Moving in frequently requires a period where you have to live like an illegal immigrant.
122. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Sancho · 2011-07-13 09:03 · Score: 1
  
  Ubuntu appears to have a policy regarding support. The longest they'll support something is an LTS Server release, at 5 years. At least according to their Wiki:
  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LTS
  That said, I think that support should be based upon the last time that a product was sold/distributed/promoted by the company. When it was first sold is completely irrelevant. It's been 3 years for XP. It's harder to compare to an open source OS.
123. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-13 09:28 · Score: 0
  
  How many other companies are expected to maintain 10+ year old software, even after TWO new releases (Vista, Win7) are available?
  Well, the vast majority of the windows XP code ISN'T 10 years old, it has been updated many times.
124. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-13 09:44 · Score: 0
  
  Was your house massively renovated three years ago?
  XP has been heavily renovated over it's lifespan. Patches and updates of all sorts and at all levels.
  Windows Vista/7 are just extensions to those patches with extra glitzy features added on top to increase the weight.
  You're still using a Win32 system with Windows 7/32. And Win64 with 7/64. Just like XP32/64.
  $300 for an overhauled GUI which got rid of GDI hardware acceleration.
125. Re:Not a moment too soon! by toejam13 · 2011-07-13 12:31 · Score: 1
  
  Is that the residential rate or commercial rate? I know in many locations, the commercial rates for power can be as much as twice that of residential.
126. Re:Not a moment too soon! by toddestan · 2011-07-13 14:25 · Score: 1
  
  Have you ever tried to replace the drive on a MBP? This isn't your PC laptop where you can unscrew one screw and the drive pops out.
127. Re:Not a moment too soon! by toddestan · 2011-07-13 14:37 · Score: 1
  
  It's a hell of a lot cheaper to just turn the machine off when it's not used. Pretty much any scenario I can envision where you might want to keep a K6 or a P2 going on some stripped version of Windows 7 is one where the computer is only going to be used sparingly as either a backup computer or some low usage application. If the computer is only one for an hour a day, the payoff is going to be decades even using your inflated electricity costs.
128. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Belial6 · 2011-07-13 15:17 · Score: 1
  
  Residential.
129. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Belial6 · 2011-07-13 15:21 · Score: 1
  
  It will only take decades if you deny usage patterns and the existence of math.
130. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-13 16:09 · Score: 0
  
  Apple doesn't charge an arm and a leg for new versions of their OS either. Lion will set you back $29 how much will an upgrade from XP -> Win 7 cost?
131. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-14 07:58 · Score: 0
  
  It hardly counts because you bought your house second-hand.
132. Re:Not a moment too soon! by Stratus311 · 2011-07-14 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  and RosettaStone is an optional component, to be removed in 10.7
  
  Are you sure about that?
133. Re:Not a moment too soon! by toddestan · 2011-07-14 15:20 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, here in the real world where electricity is under .10/kwh, a run-of-the-mill P4 tower idles at around 100W, and people turn off their computers when they go to sleep or are at work, yes it does take decades.
months old by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 08:44 · Score: 0

That timer was released over a month ago. In fact, I think I remember reading about it on /. back then.
1. Re:months old by Dahamma · 2011-07-12 09:15 · Score: 1
  
  Actually, April 19, so almost 3 months ago. Now it's a 916 day countdown clock. Wonder how many days until the next dup...
This is a dupe by ucflap · 2011-07-12 08:44 · Score: 3, Informative

Old news is stale :( http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/04/21/1450231/Microsoft-Counts-Down-To-XP-Death
1. Re:This is a dupe by lseltzer · 2011-07-12 09:14 · Score: 1
  
  It's even worse than that. The fact that Microsoft will discontinue support for XP in April 2014 was announced in April, 2009
2. Re:This is a dupe by strength_of_10_men · 2011-07-12 09:24 · Score: 1
  
  Seriously, this is news now? Microsoft has this published on their website for some time now.
3. Re:This is a dupe by qzjul · 2011-07-12 10:37 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe slashdot can put an XP EOL Countdown Clock in the top bar? :)
4. Re:This is a dupe by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-13 02:28 · Score: 0
  
  Obvious troll is obvious.
Just enough time by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 08:44 · Score: 0

Just enough time to get my Linux desktops buffed-up.
1. Re:Just enough time by ChunderDownunder · 2011-07-12 11:04 · Score: 1
  
  just enough time for ReactOS to deliver a 100% binary compatible replacement. Why upgrade to windows 8 if reactos becomes mature enough to reuse all your discontinued hardware with xp binary drivers?
Not surprising. by JKConsult · 2011-07-12 08:45 · Score: 2

I'm still on (and perfectly content with) XP, but even I'll admit that by that point, it'll be the equivalent of Terry Schiavo.
1. Re:Not surprising. by 6ULDV8 · 2011-07-12 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  I'm still running XP in Bootcamp because of a requirement of certain network devices. I can't upgrade until those are EOL by a customer.
  
  --
  Pull my finger for my public key.
2. Re:Not surprising. by powerlord · 2011-07-12 09:05 · Score: 1
  
  Agreed. They can have my WinXP VM image when they pry it from my cold, dead, hard drive.
  (deal with too many customers using "legacy" systems and need older image, besides, XP runs wonderfully as a VM under OSX :) ).
  
  --
  This space for rent. All reasonable inquiries will be entertained at proprietors discretion.
3. Re:Not surprising. by kevinmenzel · 2011-07-12 09:11 · Score: 1
  
  Of course Windows XP runs beautifully as a VM. In fact, XP as a VM integrates really really well into the upper versions of Windows 7. In fact, it's an advertised feature, and you don't even need a separate XP license.
4. Re:Not surprising. by cyber-vandal · 2011-07-12 09:25 · Score: 1
  
  But it would probably be cheaper to get an OEM licence from somewhere and run it in a VM on Home Premium than it would be to buy Vista Pro or Vista Ultimate.
5. Re:Not surprising. by kevinmenzel · 2011-07-12 10:09 · Score: 1
  
  Well, for a home user maybe. For a really small business possibly. But given that XP Mode gives you start menu integration with Windows 7... the seamlessness of the integration might be worth the piddly extra $50 per seat or whatever it is for Win 7 Pro over Win 7 Home. Assuming Microsoft even does volume licenses for anything under Pro...
sad state of affairs by v1 · 2011-07-12 08:47 · Score: 2

when the have to keep maintaining a product across the course of two new releases so customers can survive long enough for a release that's worth ponying up for.
Tho I suppose 7 wasn't too bad. Vista, however...

--
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
1. Re:sad state of affairs by YodasEvilTwin · 2011-07-12 08:52 · Score: 2
  
  7 is excellent, a true successor to XP. XP is only still around because of poor people who don't torrent or have ancient hardware, and incompetent IT departments.
2. Re:sad state of affairs by JKConsult · 2011-07-12 09:07 · Score: 1
  
  I have perfectly capable hardware and I torrent. I also have a perfectly legitimate copy of XP and have yet to be presented with a compelling reason to upgrade to 7. When that happens, I'll upgrade, but not before. People who don't spend money on upgrades they have yet to see a need for aren't "poor", they're making rational financial decisions.
3. Re:sad state of affairs by Pentium100 · 2011-07-12 09:15 · Score: 1
  
  I torrent and have semi-recent hardware (would be enough for Win7 I guess). However, reinstalling Windows and then spending days if not weeks configuring and installing all the software is such a PITA that I do not want to do it without a really good reason (for example, all of my software stopping working in XP, XP no longer booting, not even if I restore from backup etc).
4. Re:sad state of affairs by Jeff+DeMaagd · 2011-07-12 09:18 · Score: 1
  
  I keep XP because 7's UI is generally clumsier. Mind you, 7 does have some nice things but they aren't must-have features yet, in my opinion.
5. Re:sad state of affairs by Killall+-9+Bash · 2011-07-12 09:20 · Score: 1
  
  windows 7 is a bugfix of the performance issues in Vista.
  
  What bug did windows 7 fix?
  
  The bug that caused background services that are only supposed to run when the computer is idle (defrag, shadow volume copy, windows search, etc.) to run whenever the fuck they feel like it.
  
  I was google-ing "windows vista HDD light" furiously by one week into vista ownership. So were a lot of other people.
  
  --
  "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
6. Re:sad state of affairs by AvitarX · 2011-07-12 09:46 · Score: 1
  
  The Window management is 7 is fantastic.
  Worth $3/month easily ($100 for the upgrade that should be fine for 3 years if you're still on XP).
  The improved taskbar, and snapping side by side windows make it worth every penny.
  Also, IE9 developer tools make trouble shooting IE rendering a lot easier if you do and CSS/HTML work.
  
  --
  Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
7. Re:sad state of affairs by JKConsult · 2011-07-12 10:03 · Score: 1
  
  Actual Window Manager does this for me already. One of the more perfect pieces of 3rd party OS software I've found. I'd put it and Directory Opus right up at the tippy top.
8. Re:sad state of affairs by Darinbob · 2011-07-12 10:14 · Score: 2
  
  There's also the issue that XP works just fine. Why upgrade? You force yourself to get new faster hardware with more memory, and when you're done putting the new OS on it you discover that it doesn't run any faster than it did on the old system. It's like Office, everyone knows that the older versions are always better than the new ones; I can't recall any release of Office where there was an overall improvement. And yet some people insist on upgrading...
9. Re:sad state of affairs by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 10:24 · Score: 0
  
  Vista, Win7, and Win2008 are all sh!t.
  They 'may' have increased security, but they took out lots of functionality. I.E The whole network stack, and networking in windows. Why did they have to add home groups bloatware into networking? Instead of 3 clicks to get to an adapter, it now tasks like 8 clicks.. WTF MS!
10. Re:sad state of affairs by Fujisawa+Sensei · 2011-07-12 11:12 · Score: 1
  
  My license for DOpus Magellan is still valid on my virtualized Amiga.
  
  --
  If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
11. Re:sad state of affairs by Belial6 · 2011-07-12 12:05 · Score: 1
  
  The reason Windows doesn't run any faster on new hardware is because it is already running at full speed. Just as getting a faster hard drive won't make movies or music play faster on your computer. We are simply at the point that we are not waiting for the OS. Applications on the other hand are a different story. While many of them are already running at full speed, (MP3 and movie playing for example) many others run WAY faster on newer hardware. Ask the gamers. Re-encoding DVDs to be files that play on my media PC take a fraction of the time they used to. That media PC not only works at as a media PC, but also runs a full Domino server acting as a Web/Database/Email server in a Virtual machine. On top of that, I keep my Quicken in a VM on that system also so that I can access it from any system in the house without conflict.
  
  XP could not handle what this system does effortlessly. If for no other reason than because the multiple VMs require more memory than what XP supports.
12. Re:sad state of affairs by Darinbob · 2011-07-12 12:58 · Score: 1
  
  But if you don't need multiple VMs or anything that Windows 7 offers? I think most users of Windows 7 don't do anything different than they were doing in Windows XP.
13. Re:sad state of affairs by Belial6 · 2011-07-12 13:20 · Score: 1
  
  Some users may not get a speed benefit. I'm just pointing out that Windows XP doesn't work just fine for many users and that the faster hardware and more memory do give the system greater capabilities. Claiming otherwise just isn't true. Just because a 600 square foot apartment works fine for some people doesn't mean that a lot of other people are not going to be far more comfortable moving into a 2400 square foot house.
  
  You should also take into consideration that frequently buying a new computer that just happens to come with Windows 7 is cheaper than sticking with their existing system. There have been huge improvements in power requirements for newer systems. Each of my last two upgrades cost me less to buy the new computers than it would have cost to continue to run the older slower systems. Electricity costs money. So, even if there is no speed gain, there is often a financial gain to upgrading.
14. Re:sad state of affairs by Bacon+Bits · 2011-07-12 15:39 · Score: 1
  
  7 is excellent, a true successor to XP. XP is only still around because of poor people who don't torrent or have ancient hardware, and incompetent management.
  Fixed for me. IT people want desperately to move to Windows 7 because of the number of additional management features you get and because basic things like imaging and drivers are handled so much better.
  
  --
  The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
15. Re:sad state of affairs by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 18:19 · Score: 0
  
  It's safe to skip Vista/7 because when XP updates stops, Windows8 is out.
  And Windows9 is perhaps already out as beta.
16. Re:sad state of affairs by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 19:17 · Score: 0
  
  Well, what's wrong with ancient hardware? Besides the marketroids' bleating of "new goooood, old baaaaaaaad", if it works well, why upgrade? (and yes, it *does* work well; a lot of effort has gone into making XP work well, these past 10 years)
17. Re:sad state of affairs by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 21:19 · Score: 0
  
  If I see one of the plurality of desktop computer users with XP, I'll let them know that YodasEvilTwin loves Windows 7 and disapproves of their old hardware which serves them perfectly. Their incompetent IT departments should be forced to upgrade so that they can all play the latest, hot Games For Windows...provided they stay back at the office after hours.
18. Re:sad state of affairs by AvitarX · 2011-07-13 04:46 · Score: 1
  
  In still think windows 7 is worth it for the task bar. The blank all other windows on thumbnail hover makes having a dozen instances of the same application much more manageable for me.
  But I'm about to buy actual window manager for the always on top button, as push pins has some issues for me.
  
  --
  Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
19. Re:sad state of affairs by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-13 11:07 · Score: 0
  
  Tho I suppose 7 wasn't too bad. Vista, however...
  On the contrary, vista is BETTER than windows 7.
  With vista, you can turn off the new crappy interface and go back to the old classic interface. Windows 7 makes the new crappy interface mandatory.
Now is the time. by Pharmboy · 2011-07-12 08:47 · Score: 1

We are migrating to 64 bit Windows 7 this month, and if you have to stay with MS, now is the time to do it. 32 bit XP support in some apps and games is starting to slip to "also will run". SP1 is out, Vista has been passed over, and 7 is much easier to maintain and runs on what is now the cheapest hardware, AND will run some Win32 apps better than Vista, from my experience. Might as well start now, since they still are not going to add any new features or compatibilities to XP (and haven't in a while), only providing some security fixes that tend to make the systems run even slower.

--
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
I'd be willing to pay $100 by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 08:47 · Score: 0

I'd be willing to pay $100 if they would extend it another 3 years. It'd be less hassle than an upgrade. Also, it works on my slower older hardware. I don't want to buy new hardware. If they won't take my money, then I'll consider Linux or a Mac. I'd be leaning towards Linux since I hate Apple's 'tude.
1. Re:I'd be willing to pay $100 by YodasEvilTwin · 2011-07-12 08:55 · Score: 1
  
  You can buy a used desktop that will run Win7 no problems for $100. I've seen NEW computers as low as $200. No excuses.
2. Re:I'd be willing to pay $100 by 0123456 · 2011-07-12 08:56 · Score: 1
  
  You can buy a used desktop that will run Win7 no problems for $100.
  But then you have to pay another $100 for Windows 7.
Bit Question, by Icegryphon · 2011-07-12 08:50 · Score: 1

Does this Mean XP 64Bit Edition. If so I am going to be pissed. There is not SP3 even yet for 64Bit XP. Sure some of you may hate it, But I has it's uses for Certian Software.
1. Re:Bit Question, by Lunix+Nutcase · 2011-07-12 08:52 · Score: 1
  
  But I has it's uses for Certian Software.
  Well then the Certian's probably need to upgrade their software.
2. Re:Bit Question, by Arancaytar · 2011-07-12 08:56 · Score: 1
  
  I thought Certian went out of business years ago...
3. Re:Bit Question, by Spad · 2011-07-12 08:59 · Score: 1
  
  There never will be an SP3 for XP 64-bit; it's based on the Server 2003 64-bit kernel and co-opts its service packs and updates.
  My understanding is that its support ends on 08/04/2014 (UK date format, so April 2014).
4. Re:Bit Question, by confused+one · 2011-07-12 09:00 · Score: 1
  
  April 2014
5. Re:Bit Question, by Dynedain · 2011-07-12 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  I went through this. If your software is 64bit and runs on XP 64, then it probably has a newer (or even the same) version that runs better on Win7 64bit. Skip Vista.
  
  --
  I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
6. Re:Bit Question, by rsmith-mac · 2011-07-12 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  Officially it's the same date as regular XP. However XP64 is really Server 2003, so I'm a bit surprised it won't be supported until 2015 like the rest of the Server 2003 lineup.
  The fact that it's Server 2003 is also why there's no SP3. XP64 SP2 is its "SP3".
7. Re:Bit Question, by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 20:03 · Score: 0
  
  > Does this Mean XP 64Bit Edition.
  There is no such thing. The "Windows XP 64-bit Edition" is actually a re-packaged Windows 2003 Server 64-bit Edition special variant, re-tuned for workstation use.
Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by tepples · 2011-07-12 08:55 · Score: 3, Informative

Ubuntu does not maintains Long Term releases that long.
Nor does Canonical charge for operating system upgrades. Nor does Canonical drop all support for older yet paid for and still working PC hardware as quickly; Ubuntu 11.04 needs less than half the RAM of Windows 7.
1. Re:Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 09:13 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  Nor does Canonical charge for operating system upgrades. Nor does Canonical drop all support for older yet paid for and still working PC hardware as quickly; Ubuntu 11.04 needs less than half the RAM of Windows 7.
  Let's say a bunch of things that miss the point completely, that will sure show him!
2. Re:Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by AvitarX · 2011-07-12 09:26 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I don't know how true that is.
  Windows 7 runs almost as well as Ubuntu with 1GB of RAM, I can't imagine using either with less.
  I just installed Windows 7 on a Pentium D with 1GB RAM, and Integrated graphic, aside from the fact that I'm in the ugly interface mode, it works pretty well.
  Both it, and my Ubuntu box with 1GB of RAM suffer freeze-ups as things swap.
  
  --
  Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
3. Re:Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by Kjella · 2011-07-12 09:41 · Score: 1
  
  Support means you like the system the way it is, but want the necessary patches and such to keep it working. Upgrade means the versions of everything changes, the UI changes, the API changes and a host of other things that may break systems or confuse users. That means retesting, recertification, updating training materials, guides, system documentation and so on. Just because the upgrade is free doesn't mean upgrading is free. It's a valid point but hardly a perfect substitute.
  
  --
  Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
4. Re:Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by LordLimecat · 2011-07-12 10:22 · Score: 1
  
  Its also about 3 times as obnoxious GUI wise. Its probably the only Ubuntu release that I trialed for less time than it took to install in a virtual machine-- it was bad enough that I couldnt even stand testing it.
  I mean, this is completely off topic, but if you want to shift gears to spouting about how great Ubuntu is vs WIndows, some honesty about the trainwreck that is 11.04 would be useful. It is, after all, the Vista of Ubuntus.
5. Re:Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 11:03 · Score: 0
  
  I think you've missed the point. People aren't upgrading because they don't want to pay for the new version, they aren't upgrading because they don't want to (incompetent/understaffed IT departments.)
6. Re:Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by WorBlux · 2011-07-12 11:45 · Score: 1
  
  11.04 isn't bad, it's just unity that's horrible. You can still log in with gnome 2 if you want.
7. Re:Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by rubycodez · 2011-07-12 17:59 · Score: 1
  
  Xubuntu 11.04 is ok, it's Ubuntu without the Unity suck. That should hold you for now while you plan your Ubuntu Great Escape. For me that's the extra hard drive I'm building up with a Debian xfce 6.01
8. Re:Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by prionic6 · 2011-07-12 18:15 · Score: 1
  
  aside from the fact that I'm in the ugly interface mode
  just switch it off ;)
9. Re:Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by hotrodent · 2011-07-12 21:49 · Score: 1
  
  From what I understand 11.10 won't have that option. So what are the gnome 2 fanboiz gonna do then?!
10. Re:Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by perryizgr8 · 2011-07-12 22:45 · Score: 1
  
  Ubuntu does not maintains Long Term releases that long.
  Nor does Canonical charge for operating system upgrades. Nor does Canonical drop all support for older yet paid for and still working PC hardware as quickly; Ubuntu 11.04 needs less than half the RAM of Windows 7.
  yet it DOES less than a quarter of the things that win 7 can.
  
  --
  Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
11. Re:Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by tepples · 2011-07-13 02:06 · Score: 1
  
  yet [Ubuntu 11.04] DOES less than a quarter of the things that win 7 can.
  Would you please elaborate?
12. Re:Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by arglebargle_xiv · 2011-07-13 03:21 · Score: 1
  Nor does Canonical charge for operating system upgrades. Nor does Canonical drop all support for older yet paid for and still working PC hardware as quickly; Ubuntu 11.04 needs less than half the RAM of Windows 7.
  yet it DOES less than a quarter of the things that win 7 can.
  Let's see now...
  
  Runs the Zeus botnet: No.
  Runs banker trojans to siphon money from my bank account: No.
  Has DRM: No.
  Runs spyware/pr0n popups/fake anti-malware: No.
  You're right. Dammit Shuttleworth, I want my money back!
  Oh, right, it doesn't even do that either.
13. Re:Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by perryizgr8 · 2011-07-13 03:22 · Score: 1
  
  i think it is quite self-evident.
  
  --
  Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
14. Re:Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by LordLimecat · 2011-07-13 03:40 · Score: 1
  
  Ill switch to peppermint, since its basically what I wanted out of Ubuntu in the first place-- a minimal, no-config Linux with debian-style package management, chrome as default browser, and a light-weight window manager.
  And it gets the benefit of all those nifty patched Ubuntu kernels too.
15. Re:Nor does Canonical charge for upgrades by WorBlux · 2011-07-13 12:08 · Score: 1
  
  Intstall the package, compile it ourselves, or make or use the spinoff Gubuntu. Personally I like XFCE the best of anything I've tried (unity on gnome3, xfce, gnome2, and kde)
Details please by tepples · 2011-07-12 08:58 · Score: 1

You can buy a used desktop that will run Win7 no problems for $100.
Can one buy such used desktop PCs in quantity, or are you talking about watching Craigslist for a couple weeks waiting for a deal?

I've seen NEW computers as low as $200.
Link please. Windows 7 costs $200 by itself.
1. Re:Details please by jawtheshark · 2011-07-13 05:19 · Score: 1
  
  My primary desktop for home use is based on a foxconn NT535. Alternate.de sells it for 199â with 2GB RAM and a 320GB HDD. It's a Dual-Core Atom D525. That's obviously without OS, keyboard, mouse and monitor, but I had those already. Given, you can count 1USD=1EUR for tech stuff, I must assume a $199 computer with reasonable specifications must exist.
  
  --
  Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
2007 called, they want their MS announcements back by davidwr · 2011-07-12 09:01 · Score: 2

Microsoft announced back in 2007 or 2006 that Windows XP Pro would be supported until 2014. In 2007, they extended XP Home and Media Center support to 2014.

--
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
This is not news by Bacon+Bits · 2011-07-12 09:07 · Score: 4, Informative

This gadget was released months ago. I've had it on my Windows 7 desktop at work since May at least.
And before all the whargarbl about MS dropping support... Windows XP was released in 2001. No consumer OS has been supported that long, and few enterprise OSs are. Since Windows 7 was released (that was 2 years ago) netbooks and low end systems have shipped with Windows 7 Starter. XP has not been sold on systems for years, and a four years of security support is not bad at all.
Earlier the same year XP was released, Red Hat 7.1 came out. That's the first version of Red Hat to use the 2.4 kernel (7 had the 2.2 kernel). Later in 2001 they released 7.2, which as a new feature offered support for the ext3 file system. One of the major selling points of XP, you may remember, was the fact that it offered full native USB support. It's time to move on, people.

--
The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
1. Re:This is not news by Obfuscant · 2011-07-12 09:57 · Score: 1
  
  XP has not been sold on systems for years,
  
  Bzzzzt. Thank you for playing, your parting gifts will be shipped to you next week.
  I bought two XP systems within the last six months. Brand new.
2. Re:This is not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 10:01 · Score: 0
  
  I think the point is that there's been nothing compelling to move on to since.
3. Re:This is not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 10:27 · Score: 0
  
  Windows XP was released in 2001. ... XP has not been sold on systems for years
  Well, no. It was last sold in 2008 as standalone, and as OEM install in 2010. The last version is 5.1 in 2008, which is a lot more relevant than first version with retail software.
  http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/products/lifecycle
4. Re:This is not news by ShakaUVM · 2011-07-12 11:09 · Score: 1
  
  And before all the whargarbl about MS dropping support... Windows XP was released in 2001. No consumer OS has been supported that long, and few enterprise OSs are. Since Windows 7 was released (that was 2 years ago) netbooks and low end systems have shipped with Windows 7 Starter. XP has not been sold on systems for years, and a four years of security support is not bad at all.
  Windows 7 has only been usable since Classic Shell came out about a year ago. (http://www.codeproject.com/KB/shell/classicshell.aspx and http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/)
  It adds back in the missing up arrow (breadcrumbs don't work on desktop folders, or within links) and replaces the grotesque monolith that is the Win7 start menu with a properly customizable one. I took out all the cruft, and made the horrible search only happen if I hit tab first. This lets me tap the windows key and be able to use hotkeys to navigate instantly through the hierarchical menus I have set up to launch moderately-used menus and applications. It also allows you to use a proper hierarchical programs folder, instead of having to scroll through a flat list of "all programs" as if we were living in 1980 again.
5. Re:This is not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 11:58 · Score: 1
  
  Wait, people still use the start menu? I figured most people would've realized that typing two characters in the search box would be faster than navigating the menu, be it hierarchical or not.
6. Re:This is not news by Belial6 · 2011-07-12 12:22 · Score: 1
  
  You don't count the length of support from the time the software was release. You count it from the last time MS was selling it.
7. Re:This is not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 13:39 · Score: 0
  
  This gadget was released months ago. I've had it on my Windows 7 desktop at work since May at least.
  And before all the whargarbl about MS dropping support... Windows XP was released in 2001. No consumer OS has been supported that long, and few enterprise OSs are. Since Windows 7 was released (that was 2 years ago) netbooks and low end systems have shipped with Windows 7 Starter. XP has not been sold on systems for years, and a four years of security support is not bad at all.
  Earlier the same year XP was released, Red Hat 7.1 came out. That's the first version of Red Hat to use the 2.4 kernel (7 had the 2.2 kernel). Later in 2001 they released 7.2, which as a new feature offered support for the ext3 file system. One of the major selling points of XP, you may remember, was the fact that it offered full native USB support. It's time to move on, people.
  It's really hard to tell. Are you defending MS?
8. Re:This is not news by Phat_Tony · 2011-07-12 14:52 · Score: 1
  
  "XP has not been sold on systems for years, and a four years of security support is not bad at all."
  
  I bought a Dell Mini 10v new from Dell on 5/28/2010 that came with Windows XP.
  
  So at most, one year.
  
  And I don't think the gist of the story here is "wow, they're abandoning their users so soon," the point is more "wholly *$@!, Microsoft went so long between successful OS releases that they need to support users for three more years on a system that came out when Apple was still on Mac OS 9 and Ubuntu was still on... oh wait, Ubuntu didn't even come out for three more years. I should say Red Hat Eneterprise Linux was on... holy cow, that wasn't out yet either. Red Hat Linux was on 7.2
  
  When did Apple stop supporting OS 9? I'm guessing the vast majority of Mac users would respond "OS-what?"
  
  --
  Can anyone tell me how to set my sig on Slashdot?
9. Re:This is not news by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 15:14 · Score: 0
  
  never say die XP! the best OS!
10. Re:This is not news by rubycodez · 2011-07-12 18:32 · Score: 1
  
  My employer, a VAR, is still selling win 7 systems with Xp downgrade, to government (city, state, county) accounts. And they will do so for years, by contract.
11. Re:This is not news by ShakaUVM · 2011-07-12 18:52 · Score: 1
  
  >>Wait, people still use the start menu? I figured most people would've realized that typing two characters in the search box would be faster than navigating the menu, be it hierarchical or not.
  The search box is much much slower for power users.
  Besides, the way I have it set up, it's still there - just one tab away.
12. Re:This is not news by luther349 · 2011-07-12 19:59 · Score: 1
  
  xp has had such a long run due to loghorn never seeing thr light of day. then they trainwrecked vista just to get a new os out there. why xp is running for 10+ years it was there only product anyone would buy. when vista shipped people activly looked for xp or switched to linux. in fact my frends had no windows boxes all threw the vista hell. he has a win7 box now.
13. Re:This is not news by Bacon+Bits · 2011-07-13 19:31 · Score: 1
  
  What does the license tag on the system say? Dimes to dollars it's "Windows 7" or nothing at all. The latter is often used for Vista/7 licenses which were OEM downgraded to XP.
  But the license, and therefore the OS you actually bought, is not Windows XP.
  
  --
  The road to tyranny has always been paved with claims of necessity.
I'd settle for 5 years of support... by davidwr · 2011-07-12 09:10 · Score: 1

... with the clock starting the day the last "consumer" or "OEM-to-consumer" license was sold to a consumer.
On the other hand, I do applaud Microsoft for extending security bug fixes for XP Home well beyond the release of Vista, even though they originally were going to cut off support for "home" versions of XP in 2009 or earlier.
*Those buying through "Certified" corporate accounts on special programs, developer programs, and the like should be able to buy or get-as-part-of-the-package licenses to products in the last 5 years or even discontinued products.

--
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
"The ironing is delicious" -- new diet? by zooblethorpe · 2011-07-12 09:11 · Score: 1

You just about cost me a new keyboard today, thanks for that! How's that new diet working out? High in fibers, I'd imagine. :-D
I put on my Pedant Hat...
I think the word you want is irony. Choice Blackadder quote:

Blackadder: Baldrick, do you know what irony is?
Baldrick: Yeah, it's like goldy or bronzey, only it's made of iron.
Cheers,

--
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
1. Re:"The ironing is delicious" -- new diet? by bkpark · 2011-07-12 09:15 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  I think the word you want is irony.
  And the family cartoon you want to watch is The Simpsons.
Plenty! by sjbe · 2011-07-12 09:12 · Score: 5, Informative
How many other companies are expected to maintain 10+ year old software, even after TWO new releases (Vista, Win7) are available?
Off the top of my head:
- Every aerospace company that makes software
- Every military contractor that makes software
- Most banking software
- Lots of software that runs on a mainframe (AS/400, etc)
- Point of sale systems
- Healthcare equipment
- CNC machining equipment
- Accounting systems
Just to name a few. There is software out there which demands support periods measured in decades. LOTS of companies are expected to maintain support for old software.
1. Re:Plenty! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 09:29 · Score: 1
  
  Telecom.
  All of the Baby Bells are still running digital phone switches that are 20+ years old. The carriers are in no hurry to upgrade to newer equipment since the older stuff works so well (though its starting to change, I'll grant). In North America, if you still have a copper landline, chances are that when you pick up your phone, your dialtone is being provided by either an old Western Electric (now Alactel-Lucent) ESS switch or a Nortel (formerly Nortern Telecom and Bell Northern) DMS switch that was put into service in the eighties.
  Granted, these switches have reached a very high level of maturity and robustness. You will see very few field issues after 25-30+ years of service, at least in the embedded software.
2. Re:Plenty! by AvitarX · 2011-07-12 09:40 · Score: 1
  
  I bet they charge annually for it though (I could be wrong of course).
  
  --
  Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
3. Re:Plenty! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 10:05 · Score: 0
  
  problems with the sorts of software you mention (i can vouch personally for cnc - jetcam) is trying to keep them running in constantly changing OS (windows). if microsoft keeps dropping support for things like old cnc dongle drivers, cnc software makers will also have to drop support for their old software versions. ... or release versions for OSX/Linux.
4. Re:Plenty! by Darinbob · 2011-07-12 10:10 · Score: 1
  
  Customers pay for support for older systems if they need them, it's pretty common actually.
5. Re:Plenty! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 14:20 · Score: 0
  
  and they charge for it (and in most cases, they charge a lot)
  as has been mentioned, XP free support stops. you can enter paid extended support.
  but there is a huge difference in replacign an OS and a LOB app. Often its cheaper to just pay support for the LOB.
6. Re:Plenty! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 18:03 · Score: 0
  
  Though true, this list was dumb. All those companies you mentioned should be required to upgrade. It shouldn't harm things for a ten year old point of sale system to have a CPU upgrade. I don't see why any product that relies on microprocessors should have more than a 10 year support period. What if it's a bridge or a house? Seriously, then don't depend on a microprocessor. For one thing electronics can bust, what are you going to do when the CPU or one of the transistors on the motherboard is unavailable?
7. Re:Plenty! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 18:26 · Score: 0
  
  To be fair, most of that stuff comes with lucrative support contracts.
8. Re:Plenty! by mjwx · 2011-07-12 19:59 · Score: 1
  
  Point of sale systems
  If I were drinking coffee at the time, it would now be over both keyboards.
  
  Pronto are damn quick to EOL old versions of their software, far faster then MS are. This doesn't force all of their clients to upgrade though.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
9. Re:Plenty! by cbope · 2011-07-12 20:17 · Score: 1
  
  In healthcare, the expectation is 10+ years. In my company, we are actually having to re-instate Windows 2000 support for one of our customers because they do not upgrade OS's on existing, working hardware. I just wonder where they get new, replacement hardware for computers that fail that still comes with drivers for Win2k. I know at least a few pieces of new hardware (motherboards, mainly) that do not support anything older than Vista. On the other hand, the computer recycling business in that country must be huge, and is probably where they get replacements from.
No more updates... by WLAJ · 2011-07-12 09:12 · Score: 2

Only three years until XP is finally stable? That certainly is good news!
1. Re:No more updates... by initialE · 2011-07-12 11:56 · Score: 1
  
  FYI, the final rollup update for Windows 2000 broke a lot of things that used to work fine. So I wouldn't be pulling out my happy face just yet.
  
  --
  Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
Need for XP by Msdose · 2011-07-12 09:16 · Score: 1

I wouldn't buy a new computer that didn't run XP. Good thing there's plenty on eBay.
Can I still activate? by rsilvergun · 2011-07-12 09:16 · Score: 1

And if so, how? If you can't activate the software is worthless. I know lots of people running Win9X still (old games mostly, but some old software too).

--
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
1. Re:Can I still activate? by cyber-vandal · 2011-07-12 09:31 · Score: 2
  
  Make sure you have a few VM images created before 2014.
2. Re:Can I still activate? by Darinbob · 2011-07-12 10:17 · Score: 1
  
  That's a good point. I may want to re-run XP sometime in the future. I should validate now, but I suspect it won't work anyway since they'll assume this isn't the same OEM system that it used to be since I replaced too many parts. Well, at least I can still run Windows 98 or Wine.
3. Re:Can I still activate? by couchslug · 2011-07-12 13:35 · Score: 1
  
  Who "activates"?
  At this point VLK copies of XP should be as common as DOS boot floppies once were.
  
  --
  "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Where? by rsilvergun · 2011-07-12 09:17 · Score: 1

I haven't even seen netbooks for that price, let alone a desktop with 4 gigs of RAM...

--
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
1. Re:Where? by jawtheshark · 2011-07-13 09:03 · Score: 1
  
  Close enough? Sure, Windows 7 Starter, and only an Atom, but the N455 is roughly on par with a Intel Pentium IV 2.40GHz.
  
  --
  Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Joy... by zooblethorpe · 2011-07-12 09:32 · Score: 1

Cheers, I haven't had a TV in so long that I've missed out on a lot of Simpsons / Futurama / etc. Mark one under "Missed References"... :)

--
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Biting The Hand That Feeds You by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 09:40 · Score: 0, Interesting

Microsoft has discontinued support for operating systems that ordinary people purchased in good faith in the passed. Each time they do this, larger and larger segments of the population discover that they don't really need Microsoft at all! I will be speaking with my son,as well as my friends who are more technologically literate than I currently am. I don't know at what point this will affect me adversely, (I am still using Windows 98 at work since I am not allowed to change the operating system myself and I am not a high enough priority to my technical department to justify the upgrade in hardware that it would take to install and run a more modern operating system) but whenever it does, I will simply transfer all of my systems to a different operating system. Perhaps the Google android system will be available by then, or maybe I will end up with one of those nice Linux shells, but anytime a commercial venture starts dictating what they will and will not do for their customers, it is time to seriously consider my continued support for that company. End of story!
1. Re:Biting The Hand That Feeds You by couchslug · 2011-07-12 13:38 · Score: 1
  
  In what wretched shithole do you work so the rest of us can avoid it?
  Yes, really.
  
  --
  "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Are it Dept.s that needy? by Jane+Q.+Public · 2011-07-12 09:40 · Score: 1

I haven't needed Microsoft's support for my copy of XP for the last 10 years... why should I in the next 3?

Um... except for that time it "forgot" its activation, and I ended up having to call some guy in India. Thanks, Microsoft.
1. Re:Are it Dept.s that needy? by initialE · 2011-07-12 12:02 · Score: 1
  
  Chances are you have needed their support many times in the last 10 years - do you think that updates and service packs are not support? XP came out without a firewall and with IE6.
  
  --
  Starbucks, Harbuckle of Breath.
2. Re:Are it Dept.s that needy? by perryizgr8 · 2011-07-12 23:10 · Score: 1
  
  support==patches
  
  --
  Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
My bank by EmperorOfCanada · 2011-07-12 09:44 · Score: 2

I was at my bank (a big Canadian one) and the manager told me that they finally upgraded to XP. I was to stunned to ask what they upgraded from.
1. Re:My bank by pak9rabid · 2011-07-12 10:32 · Score: 1
  
  Probably Win2000
2. Re:My bank by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 10:37 · Score: 0
  
  ...a midget in a barrel that they hit with sticks? (with apologies to the short of stature and wooden receptacles.)
3. Re:My bank by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 11:18 · Score: 0
  
  Probably 2000. As you might note, it's only a year older than XP. But that didn't stop the apologists from wheeling out the "it's a 7 year old OS, time to upgrade" bs in 2007 as I was experiencing a lot of compatibility issues due to people building their apps (needlessly) using the newest Win32 library calls that weren't present in Win2k. These people were actually baffled as to why I didn't upgrade my 7 year old OS to a 6 year old OS, as if it was supposed to be an obvious thing to do.
4. Re:My bank by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 11:59 · Score: 0
  
  why... OS2 of course (Don't laugh - it really does still exist in banking circles)
5. Re:My bank by El_Oscuro · 2011-07-12 12:00 · Score: 1
  
  We upgraded from Win2k to XP about 2 years ago, and still have a few 2k machines that can't be upgraded.
  If I am in a bank or store where they use computers, I routinely look at the employees computer screens to see what they are running. Every one of them so far has been running XP. Every one. I have yet to see Vista/7 in use by a business.
  
  --
  "Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
6. Re:My bank by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 12:18 · Score: 0
  
  DOS 5.0, of course :)
7. Re:My bank by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 13:16 · Score: 0
  
  Please tell us when this happened, and go back to find out what they were using before!!!
8. Re:My bank by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 14:15 · Score: 0
  
  No need to guess...
  It was NT 4.0 sp6a
9. Re:My bank by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 14:28 · Score: 0
  
  Most likely - OS/2 ...which is still being supported as eComstation.
10. Re:My bank by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 15:17 · Score: 0
  
  I was at my bank (a big Canadian one) and the manager told me that they finally upgraded to XP. I was to stunned to ask what they upgraded from.
  They run Windows at the bank?
11. Re:My bank by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 15:19 · Score: 0
  
  Probably Windows 2000. CIBC used OS/2 Warp for a long time.
12. Re:My bank by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 18:54 · Score: 0
  
  from win 2000, I work at a bank, and we still run 2000 on some old computers, just a few :)
13. Re:My bank by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 20:54 · Score: 0
  
  paper ledgers and quill pens?
14. Re:My bank by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-13 00:39 · Score: 0
  
  Vista, I'd guess.
15. Re:My bank by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-13 07:40 · Score: 0
  
  and now we're on XP with IE6. the IE8 rollout has been delayed :(
Final Rollup? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 09:51 · Score: 0

I wonder if there will be a final "rollup" of all the security/updates up to that point. I run XP on an older laptop (which may or may not support Win7), and on a virtual machine. Should I need to reinstall, it would be nice to know I'd still be able to use SP3+ the "last of the updates" up to the final date...
1. Re:Final Rollup? by Lonewolf666 · 2011-07-12 10:07 · Score: 2
  
  Probably not from Microsoft. But maybe from some third party. Currently, there is the WSUS Offline Update (http://download.wsusoffline.net/) for instance. WSUS Offline Update is a small Open Source application that will download the more important patches for you (see http://forums.wsusoffline.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=172).
  So get a tool like this, let it run shortly before the cutoff date, and it will make a "collected updates" DVD for you.
  
  --
  C - the footgun of programming languages
Driver problems by Lonewolf666 · 2011-07-12 09:51 · Score: 1

When I got my current PC (Athlon 64 X2) in 2007, I tried running it with W2k first. Never got it to run stable, while my older Pentium4 worked fine on W2k until it went EOL.
In hindsight, I suspect the drivers. The NVidia graphics driver in particular was no longer maintained for W2k at the time, and I had to choose between an older driver for W2k and a newer one that was only offered for XP. I tried both, and either way, the system crashed from time to time.
After a switch to XP, the same (Athlon) box is running flawlessly. For W2k, that leaves either the OS or the drivers as the culprit. W2k being bad seems unlikely, as it always worked fine with the P4.

--
C - the footgun of programming languages
System Requirements for Countdown Gadget is Vista+ by StonyUK · 2011-07-12 09:52 · Score: 1

The system requirements state Vista or Windows 7 - You can't even install the countdown gadget if you've got XP - you've got to upgrade to trace the slow (but highly CPU, RAM and Disc space efficient) countdown of your peers!
Old news... by kakyoin01 · 2011-07-12 09:56 · Score: 1

...is old. This came out about if not more than 100 days ago. Unless now it's officially known as a 1,000-day countdown widget instead of a 1,000+ one...

--
The more you know, the more you have to say and the more you should listen.
Microsoft sold Windows 3.x for 18 years by michaelmalak · 2011-07-12 10:09 · Score: 0

Windows XP was released in 2001. No consumer OS has been supported that long
Windows 3.x was release in 1990, and Microsoft only stopped selling it November 1, 2008.
1. Re:Microsoft sold Windows 3.x for 18 years by yuhong · 2011-07-12 10:17 · Score: 1
  
  For embedded systems.
2. Re:Microsoft sold Windows 3.x for 18 years by michaelmalak · 2011-07-12 10:23 · Score: 1
  
  So it'll be 15 years for XP embedded compared to 18 years for 3.x embedded.
Deja Vu by No2Gates · 2011-07-12 10:09 · Score: 0

They said the same thing a few years ago, then capitulated.

--
Every time you call tech support, a little kitten dies.
Activation? by DKirk · 2011-07-12 10:32 · Score: 2

I wonder what will become of the activation process? If someone should want to reload the o/s will Microsoft still activate XP and allow it's use or will there be a published unlock?
1. Re:Activation? by Bing+Tsher+E · 2011-07-12 12:55 · Score: 1
  
  I just activated XP for the first time, ever, last night.
  I bought a used laptop on ebay a few weeks ago, and since it had an XP Home sticker on the bottom with a legit CD Key, I chased down an XP Home OEM CD (actually I just modified the .ini file on an XP Home Retail torrent) because it just felt right to put a 'full legal' copy on the machine. (it shipped from the ebay seller with a Japanese version of XP that was unusable to me)
  I've only been using XP at all for about a year and a half now. I stuck with Windows 2000 because I have several legit OEM licenses for that and it always did everything I needed. If I want to run 'current' software, I'd rather use NetBSD anyway.
Natty hate is beside the point by tepples · 2011-07-12 10:37 · Score: 1

Then please allow me to rephrase: Ubuntu 10.04 LTS needs less than half the RAM of Windows 7.
XP is still the best MS OS ever by skeldoy · 2011-07-12 10:52 · Score: 0

It's sad to say it, but considering the crap they spend the next 10 years on building I'd rather bet on continued support after the supposed 1000 days. If people seriously believe that XP won't be the majority amongst the MS desktops - even in 2014 - then think again. It's a good OS - the only one that's usable. The other crap is as pretentious as it is error-prone. We even have real serious systems running XP instead of 2k3-server - just because it's more stable. 2k3+,vista,win7 are jokes - utter travesties. If I where given 10$ every time I saw a Microsoft Server blue-screen-of-death.. XP right now - never see it anymore. At last it's a proper OS.
XP still here by SuperTechnoNerd · 2011-07-12 10:56 · Score: 1

My father went to the hospital last month to our local medical center. I was rather suprized at something:
It's a rather high tech hospital, computers with large screens plastered everywhere. From the 6 large screen systems in the emergency room with patient data, to the Thinkpads hospital personnel roll around for patient intake, to the front desk and the nurses station computers and thin clients..

Every one of them was running Windows XP Pro. In all those computers, I did not see a single Vista or windows 7 system anywhere.
Does that tell you something?
(BTW my father is ok :) )
1. Re:XP still here by trolman · 2011-07-12 12:35 · Score: 1
  
  No business benefit = no change. The hospitals are using XP because it is tested and certified. Also it is a good bet that the application software would not benefit from Windows 7. I have been doing this (IT) for 29 years with critical and non-critical environments. For my 300 users I cannot find a single reason to 'upgrade' to Windows 7.
2. Re:XP still here by SuperTechnoNerd · 2011-07-12 18:09 · Score: 1
  
  With that said, Imagine the costs, headaches and risks to convert over an institution as large as a medical center that rely on thees mission-critical machines. Is Microsoft going to foot the bill? I think not. It's too bad M.S. does not understand that with its success comes responsibility to cater to, and not to cause headaches for, their customers they had for 20 years. Forcing people to change what works because they want to make money on a new OS has repercussions for others. Making older, but perfectly functioning hardware obsolete because the next new O.S. wont run on gets expensive. If it not broken, don't fix it. Hospitals and other institutions have better things to do than to play with the next cool O.S. like a home user can. Oh yea, btw, windows 7 sucks.
3. Re:XP still here by fyzikapan · 2011-07-13 10:08 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. On the business side, there isn't really a compelling case to upgrade from XP in a lot of circumstances. Upgrading something like a hospital is a massive undertaking, for very little benefit. As of a few years ago, one of the largest EMR companies was still writing its client in Visual Basic 6 (though there were efforts to move it over to C# and modern APIs). And at home, there's little reason for many people to upgrade. The upgrade from 98 to XP was clearly worth doing - we went from buggy, crashy trash to a system that just works. In some ways, Microsoft did too good of a job on XP, which is great for users because the software does what they want and they're very used to it, but it's bad for Microsoft who wants people to upgrade.
Windows Xp - the best Windows by jopsen · 2011-07-12 11:16 · Score: 1

How many other companies have an installed base similar to that of Windows Xp?
- BTW, if I where to run Windows, I'd definitively prefer Windows Xp and Office 2003, things have only gone down hill from there... ugly eye "candy", ribbons, poor performance and "security" features, what's good for...
(I'm not sure if I'm joking, Windows Xp SP1 really was and still is the best competitor to Ubuntu).
XP machines fail at wireless networking now by woodycat · 2011-07-12 12:19 · Score: 1

So story is-- we will keep filling the world with obsolete PC's just sitting there or here capable of working but growing little annoyances. I have found through all my years that old operating systems fail at something at just the right time-- usually something small like not doing wireless as is the case with XP on both my clunkers. Somewhere along the line of service packs the wireless networking functionality on XP became corrupted on many older machines ( Ok on wired connections though). So being that they are unsupported the problem remains. A small annoyance to home users but enough to want an upgrade of course naturally
Comment removed by account_deleted · 2011-07-12 12:27 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion
Thank you! by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 12:28 · Score: 0

Thank you, Microsoft. Now the world has a date when IE will finally move forward.
Supported by MS or no... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 13:11 · Score: 0

I will upgrade when my games require me to.
In three years I will probably need a new rig anyway.
1. Re:Supported by MS or no... by Internetuser1248 · 2011-07-12 13:40 · Score: 1
  
  Same here, currently there is exactly one game out that I want to play that requires DX11, and many many favourites that require endless hacks to get working on seven. Not only that but in three years the XP market share will be so low that no one will bother writing malware or viruses for it anymore and regular security updates will no longer be necessary. It's not like I run to ms support whenever anything goes wrong anyway. Microsoft doesn't support linux or mac os and they seem to be doing fine :-p
2. Re:Supported by MS or no... by Gadget_Guy · 2011-07-12 15:06 · Score: 1
  
  I will upgrade when my games require me to. In three years I will probably need a new rig anyway.
  That is exactly what you should do. In fact, it is exactly what the majority of people do. This explains why there are so many XP users: computers from that era still fast enough to run standard office apps so they do not need to be updated. Even games have stagnated a bit as developers do not push the bounds of computers anymore because they want to ensure they work on the rather long-in-the-tooth next gen consoles too.
3. Re:Supported by MS or no... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 20:00 · Score: 0
  
  Despite what any hardcore XP user says, Vista/7 are much faster, more responsive and less glitchy than XP on modern hardware. The reason being is the superior UI, which offloads almost entirely on to the GPU (without the horrid window tearing and redraw trails present in XP) and the intelligent caching, which allows your most frequently used applications to load up super fast. XP is really only better if you're still using 10 year old hardware.
XP is being sold still by DesScorp · 2011-07-12 13:23 · Score: 1

It's not 10 years old if it was sold last year.
Yeah. XP has been shipping on new machines until very recently due to the fiasco that was Vista.
Your "age calculation" should start at when the product stopped shipping with new machines, not when it was first introduced.
I just put in some new Dell's with XP pro two months ago. There's still a lot of stuff that doesn't play well with Vista and 7 in the business world. I have a lot of machines doing "industrial" stuff... parking lot databases, flight information displays, common use airline terminals, access control stuff, etc. It all runs on either Windows 2000 Pro or XP pro. All of it. I'm pricing some new common use terminal equipment for my airport... stuff to be purchased about 3 months from now. It all runs on XP on brand new equipment. Like I said, the new OS model just doesn't play nice with a lot of stuff. One of our suppliers asked if we had any burning desire to upgrade our new parking lot servers to 7, We told them no, and they said "Good, because we're having a lot of problems trying to port our stuff to it".
I've been thinking that this might be an outstanding opportunity for the big industrial computing companies... SITA, Johnson Controls, Honeywell, etc, to start moving to a 'nix based OS.

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Life is hard, and the world is cruel
Related: ATMs & Autocheckout Close In 2014 by cmholm · 2011-07-12 13:58 · Score: 1

I'll guess that MS will be pushing the various ATM and auto checkout POS vendors into ditching XP as well. Good luck with that.

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1. Re:Related: ATMs & Autocheckout Close In 2014 by NJRoadfan · 2011-07-12 14:19 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, after all they just migrated away from OS/2 1.3.
I'm in this position. by Short+Circuit · 2011-07-12 14:39 · Score: 1

My day job has me writing custom C++ code for Windows. We only just recently were able to drop support for Win2K. As in, within the past year. I'm immensely looking forward to XP going the way of the dodo; our software is ready for Vista and Win7 already, but there are kernel features we can't touch as long as we need to be able to run on WinXP. Things like functioning reader/writer locks which integrate well with the rest of system APIs--we had to roll our own, and they won't integrate with the rest of the system*. In other news, correctly implementing such things is non-trivial.
* No way in hell Microsoft will let third-party code run inside the critical sections for managing resources in things like WaitForSingleObject--and I wouldn't want them to.

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software does not suffer physical decay by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 14:44 · Score: 0

even though your house and computer do.
1. Re:software does not suffer physical decay by rubycodez · 2011-07-12 19:04 · Score: 1
  
  in the pc world it can, y2k issues plague a lot of wares from 1980s and early 90s, some unique to older BIOS. Old wares were often tied to specific devices and specific disk layouts. A couple years ago for my employer I had to scavenge a 80486 with huge card cage together to run apps, proprietary POTS cards and a dongle under OS/2, hit all those issues and more, what fun and what a rush when it was finally running just like it was 1990.
I'll keep using XP as long as I can... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 15:23 · Score: 0

And when I can no longer run XP, I'll make the move to desktop Linux and wine...
Second this by NotSoHeavyD3 · 2011-07-12 16:30 · Score: 1

Since I had ubuntu installed on my system (which had Vista and Reinstall Win 7) and I tried the upgrade option which pretty much just hosed my Ubuntu install. (Oddly enough of those 3 the one that has given me the least amount of trouble is Vista. I think I'm on my 6th reinstall of Reinstall Win 7. Yes, really.)

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Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
SnakeEyes by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 17:03 · Score: 0

Stupid idea Microsoft Vista sucks ass! I rather deal with Windows XP rather then that crappy cheesy Vista anyday! I think that there should be a XP 2 then geez! Cause Vista is a joke!
Still supporting NT... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 17:34 · Score: 0

At least it's VMware NT so I'm not constantly trying to stab myself (thank god for for the older VMware Coverter that still does NT P2V). Hurray for ancient manufacturing planning software built in the dawn of non-mainframe ERP projects. I hear we might upgrade to 2003 if we beg enough over the next two years. Now I only have to worry about locating a japanese NT Terminal Server Edition with SP6 ISO to cover that ancient copy of Metaframe we have to deal with. NOBODY has that, even some of the really skeezy OS sites...
nLite + XP = using forever by luk3Z · 2011-07-12 17:56 · Score: 0

nLite + XP = using forever Best M$ OS ever disappear ? No way.

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Unsupported or deactivated? by fishbowl · 2011-07-12 18:46 · Score: 2

I don't care that the OS isn't supported. The only support I've ever asked Microsoft for was the activation of a MSDN key that I bought directly from Microsoft, a full retail MSDN subscription, that would not activate because someone had guessed the key and registered it before it was even assigned. Mind you, I never did get any support, and I had to literally threaten to sue (Microsoft!) to even get a replacement MSDN license.
Anyway, I don't care at all that XP isn't "supported." The problem is, will it be impossible to *activate* ? Will they go as far as to *deactivate* it? Will they release an activation crack before they end-of-life it?

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-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
and few enterprise OSs are - OS390? by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 19:34 · Score: 0

OS/390 - IBM supported this 'enterprise OS' from 1995 to 2004
Now, z/OS was brought in in October 2000 and is still supported .. so that's just under 10 years now.
Did you want to qualify what you mean by 'enterprise OS'?
Probably not. I've seen way too many XP machines being used as servers...
Upgraded to XP from... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 20:37 · Score: 0

Vista?
Not a day too early. by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 20:45 · Score: 0

First time I came across XP was on a Fujitsu-Siemens laptop. My father had bought, and since I was his company's main IT helpdesk I had to install all the encessary software on it.
Well, first thing I did was make it bsod. When I saw the new desktop, you know when it says it's configuring your desktop, I rightclicked into properties and chenged it to the old win2k desktop. Seems like microsoft had forgotten to test how that worked...
That was the last time that computer had XP on it.
I actually never used XP, not until I got my first 64 bit CPU, then I installed XP x64, witch in fact is rather Windows 2003 professional...
I'm a contended Windows 7 user now, Microsoft finally made an OS that doesn't suck.
thats what happens... by Anonymous Coward · 2011-07-12 21:00 · Score: 0

M$ fscked up and, for once in its miserable existance, released a piece of software that did more or less what it was supposed to, and that people were more or less happy with. Thats what doomed Vista. XP was actually adequate. M$ is to be congrarulated, they only took about a trillion dollars and about 20 years to go from defrauding Seatlesoft out of their Quick and Dirty Operating System to make a piece of software that people could tollerate having little choice but to use for longer than they could hold their collective or individual breaths. Speaking of holding breath, dont try to hold yours until M$ releases another OS like XP again. They know not to make that mistake twice in one century. Especially since they know people will NOT put up with a pay-as-you-go OS. M$ is a softwareasaur and they know it. Thats why they are so desperate to get their shitty winphone crap put on phones, and tablets, so they can pretend theyre still relevent.
Turn it off NOW! by DarthVain · 2011-07-13 01:34 · Score: 1

I know our IT won't bother until they are forced to.