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Judge Says You Can't Know If Google Spies For NSA
witherstaff writes "A federal judge has ordered that whether Google is spying for the National Security Agency or not, you have no right to know. EPIC, which brought the lawsuit, says the NSA can neither confirm nor deny any relationship with Google. EPIC is worried the 'NSA is developing technical standards that would enable greater surveillance of Internet users.'"
After all, we're the good guys. We're just doing it to keep you safe from the red threat. Erh, the terrorists.
Could someone FINALLY update my teleprompter, please?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
This is Legal Speak for Confirmed.
Thread Over.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
The National Security Agency does not have to disclose its relationship with Google amid press reports that the two partnered up after hackers in China launched a cyber attack on the U.S. government, a federal judge in Washington ruled.
It's not that you don't have a right to know. Its that the NSA is under no obligation to tell you. There's a big difference.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
In times where people get grabbed at airports, wiretaps are done at almost random, why would the NSA NOT use and abuse google?
US citizens: you have made your nest (by voting between two evils) now sleep in it.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Short version = I think I speak for most individuals when I say, Duh.
Long Version =
The illusion of anonymity that is the Internet. Does anyone honestly believe you have any real expectation or right of anonymity online?
When you hit a webserver... Logs are generated/stored
When traffic you generate is either passed through or blocked at a firewall... Logs are generated/stored
When you use a search engine from a company in the advertising industry (ex: google)... logs are generated/stored
Rinse and repeat for just about anything you do online... and add in a dash of other miscellaneous things like tracking cookies, flash cookies, etc...
In some cases logs are obfuscated, but not usually. I mean c'mon - legitimate advertising companies have gotten pretty good at targeting ads for users by datamining and trending data, do you honestly believe the NSA isn't doing this to a creepy scope and scale?
Correlating data mined from multiple sources (logs, cookies, etc...). is an expensive process from a resource standpoint. Anonymity through obfuscation, apathy, and prohibitive costs may be seemingly effective, but it is not absolute.
I've said it before and I will say it again. Google is an advertising/marketing company and because of that, I only trust them to be what they are and act accordingly. They offer great candy to the people, but I am careful about which candy I will eat. No Chrome for me, thanks. I only run customized Android OS loads with a lot of crap removed. I use Google for searching. That's just about it. The social network? Yeah, not gonna play there.
That is an arbitrary definition of spying. There is no requirement for breaking and entering or hacking; merely secretly gathering information for potentially hostile use is spying, regardless of how the information is gathered.
but shareholders absolutely have the right to know what Google is spending money on, and from where it is deriving its income. Shareholders are entitled to details about Google's assets, liabilities, income sources, and other financial details. If The Google is getting involved in shady backroom deals with the federal government, especially those that might later be found to be illegal, unconstitutional, crimes of War, or crimes against humanity, it puts shareholders at a substantial risk they deserve to know about.
I have a bumper sticker for you; "It's a modern world; Surveillance Happens!"
Our government has been eavesdropping on us since the telegraph. Accept it, get over it. I don't worry because I am a "good ole boy". If they watch the likes of me with an iota of interest, the world must indeed be safe and boring. 99.99999999% of us are boring as hell. Hence is why you have to automate this crap and search for key words, then individual vocal and speech patterns. I bet they have some sweet gear for listening in on us these days. If they don't, I am so seriously disappointed it makes me want to cry. If they don't, lets pitch in and get them something for Christmas, ok?
On a slightly more somber note, I can't imagine what kind of monster computer these guys have. Seriously, what would YOU do with their computers if you were contracting for them and had access to them for a few hours. I would find a list of women who like middle aged fat guys. Make some serious raytraced animated porn? Or would you submit your "mind simulator" into it and see if you create a singularity? I think therefor I am? Or just get everyone in the building to get on a terminal and see what game everyone could play at once? Everyone log into WoW, make gnomes and storm Ironforge to be epically annoying?
Eww! I know, one could steal back all the money and give it to the poor. They would just blow it and the rich would get it again, but it would make a grand holiday.
Come on, people. It's the NSA, they are the weird uncle of the intelligence agencies as it is. They aren't worried about your mp3s, torrents, or your pron. 99.9999% of us are incapable of being weird enough to make their radar. Right? Besides, I am a Google fan, they stood up to China, and probably still are standing up to them. If the NSA is working with Google, that is cool. I bet they have some awesome apps for agents. "Google Agent"; I can see it now.
Can't lick 'em, join 'em?
Take the Red Pill.
The NSA doesn't need google to watch all of your internet traffic. They are already on the backbones. Google can certainly add value to the spooks with their search-related technologies but do you really think any US corporation isn't going to role over when the guys-in-black come calling? We allowed the Patriot Act, among other forfeitures of our civil rights, what did you expect?
So, google got big because they did it best. Isn't that what the market is supposed to do? They did it before there were high barriers to entry and when there actually was a little bit of free in that particular marketplace. Even now, when the barriers to entry to search are much higher, they are mostly technical barriers, not ones put up by lobbyists and lawyers. I can live with that. The next search engine should be one that comes up with something fundamentally new, not the one with the best patent portfolio.
What irritates me most is people who are complaining about privacy who won't take any responsibility for protecting it. You can't expect privacy on the internet even if you don't use google. If you want privacy, start using encryption. There are free and open tools for every platform. Worried about traffic analysis? Wow, you must be doing something really interesting with your pron collection but, stil, there are tools for you to use to mask you traffic. Use them.
Use the time spent complaining about your loss of privacy and take it back. Make a personal threat model and respond to it.
Isn't it legal speak for "hmmm... but... if we deny this, won't you just keep asking the same thing about all companies until we say that we can't comment?"
"...Unless you have something to hide you really shouldn't care."
And who decides if that "something" is suspect or not, and who gives them the right to make that decision, or even do the search? The conundrum is exactly why the Founding Fathers wrote the constitutional protection against unreasonable search and seizure.
When I put my private information into a safe, or hide it under the mattress, or paste it behind a picture, it is obvious that, for what ever reasons, I do not want others to view that information without my consent. To obtain that information without my consent authorities have to convince a judge that probable cause exists that a crime has been committed and the proof is in that hidden information. Their search warrant, which must be presented to me, is not a fishing expedition, it must list specific items. That I decide to pass or store that information in or through email systems or Internet servers does not change the condition between me, my information, and the 4th Amendment. That government authorities are using "security concerns" to violate both the 4th and 5th Amendments (it is the government doing the searching at airports) is only a prelude to further violations of our civil rights. We are passed the nose of the camel. It has stuck it's entire head into the tent. The body will soon follow. What else is a 250,000 person "civilian national defense force", armed as well or better than our military, good for? And, why do we need a "CNDF" when we have the National Guard?
Running with Linux for over 20 years!
It most certainly does, which is why it's under investigation by several governments in the world. Oh, sure, they claim they "accidentally" archived the data, but that suggests an absurd level of incompetence. Also, Google would never have told anyone about it if the German government hadn't probed for the information.
Also, I'd like to note that if any other company had done this, such as Microsoft, Slashdot would have torn their head off. Because it's Google, however, they got a lot of fan defense in the comments.