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Court Approves TSA Body Scans, But Calls For Public Comment
OverTheGeicoE writes "The District of Columbia Circuit Court of Appeals has finally issued a ruling (PDF) on EPIC v. DHS, a lawsuit seeking suspension of the use of body scanners for primary screening pending an independent review that would include a public comment period. According to the summary, the court 'grant[s] the petition for review' but 'due to the obvious need for the TSA to continue its airport security operations without interruption, we remand the rule to the TSA but do not vacate it.' In short, the TSA is required to open up their policy for public comment, but they can continue to use the scanners in the meantime and most likely afterward. This doesn't sound like much of a victory for EPIC or the U.S. public."
I didn't notice, but that's probably because it wasn't on Slashdot. :-)
Seriously, isn't the firehose supposed to be taking care of this? Or do most people blow it off (I'm just as guilty, I spend 99% of my time here either reading the front page articles, commenting on them, or moderating)?
OTOH, now that I think of it, if "last week" was Friday, I think you might be expecting a bit more timeliness than usual for this forum...
These unwelcome intrusions continue because we allow them. If we the people as a group, boycotted air travel, tgis DHS BS would go away. There are two waaaay more effective antiterror methods to use than spying on everyone and fondling people against their wills... first, airlplanes should be constructed to make hijacking physically impossible, (not that hard to do) and we should figure out what it is we as a nation are doing that makes people in other countries want to fscking want to kill us, and stop doing it. It shouldnt be that hard... if we were willing to open our eyes as a nation and see.
Of course they voted this way... why would a federal circuit court do anything that reduces the power of the federal government? These days, representative government is a lie.
"It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
I was in firehose (recent) last night and of the 30 articles I rated, 27 were binspam, 2 were off topic but not spam, and 1 was worthy of a recommend.
I'm beginning to wonder if Slashdot's way of promoting stories doesn't *encourage* spam. While it might not make it to the front page, how many moderator eyeballs does it get before getting removed?
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
We're not gonna stop doing it, but we'll now allow you to bitch about it.
This is the judicial equivalent of saying "cry about it."
Please, just wake me up when somebody actually starts killing Senators. I'm done with this.
Why is it considered an obvious need that the TSA continue using these devices? They've cost the U.S. tens of millions of dollars and so far I haven't heard of them actually having stopped any real terrorist, in fact they've just made it even easier for people and TSA employees to steal stuff from fellow travelers.
Have these things stopped any actual terrorism attempt? And if so, was the attempt sophisticated enough that it wouldn't have been noticed otherwise?
Maybe the firehose should get more limelight. I usually actually forget about it. Despite reminding me that if I avoid it, I let others dictate what stories I will read.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
These unwelcome intrusions continue because we allow them.
That's the thing, most people I talk to in the real World actually think that the scanner make them safe - they'd be pissed if they went away or if there were another successful terrorist attack would say, 'SEE! We needed those scanners!!"
Remember, we're in a society that has many many people who think that chiropractic doctors are real, homeopathy works, Satan exists and that by increasing the Debt Ceiling, Government spending will go up.
If the TSA sets up a website for public comments about this screening policy, it'll be the only safe place in the world to put kiddie porn, messages between terrorists or between organized crime groups, etc.
Because you can pretty much guarantee that the government will NEVER READ IT.
We have "public comment" in the UK as well. It's called public consultation and is equally ignored.
"Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
I don't know where you've been using backscatter scanners, but at Washington Dulles, they slow things down. In fact, they actually get so far behind that they randomly select people to go through the old way to prevent the lines from getting too long. With the old metal detector, people just walk through with a possible pause for a check with a hand wand or go through again because of change in their pocket or something. With backscatter, every person has to stop in the device for a few moments, then wait for the person in the back room to report to the agent at the scanner. It doesn't help that every person who goes through the nudie-scan also gets groped because every one is reported to have an "anomaly." At least, with every one that has gone through at the same time as I have since they made the backscatter mandatory earlier this year.
End of line..
I'm more afraid of the TSA than I am of Terrorists.
I'd rather die a free man than fly as a slave.
It violates our rights because there is no practical alternative. Bus and train are much slower. If they had an intrusive and non-intrusive flight choice, then it would be fair.
The non-intrusive flight would carry the known risk, in signature, of being shot down quickly by the Air Force if there were problems. Give us choice!
Table-ized A.I.
I don't mean breaking them, but making them pretty much impossible to run for the DHS due to public outcry.
Here's my thinking: Figure out how to turn the relatively harmless dosage into something really scary looking.
Imagine the reaction if a few people's clothes started to emit smoke or catch fire in the middle of one of the scanners. Granted, the first reaction might be an arrest because the TSA thinks you're carrying explosives, but once that's been cleared out of the way, and half a dozen others have experienced the same thing around the country, I suspect the media will whip up such a shit storm about how these scanners are setting passengers' clothes on fire, that the scanners will be permanently banned.
We will add you to a list of dissidents and you will receive super-enhanced screening.
it makes the tsa's job more miserable and never under estimate getting something changed because the people that do it are made miserable.
I don't understand the court's comments. I mean, I do from the standpoint that they are in DC and aren't reviewing this from a Constitutional standpoint but rather some kind of operational / "I don't want to go on record as being the guy who pulled the plug and then a terrors slips past." Frankly, this has already been decided in Terry v. Ohio. It clearly outlines the requirements for police (e.g. the government) to search a person vs. just "frisk" a person. It even outlines what defines a "frisk" which is why it is often referred to as a "Terry Frisk" within the law enforcement world. Simply put, there needs to be probable cause for the officer to search a person (the same as the groping and looking down your pants search done by the TSA.) Reasonable suspicion, e.g. "I think anyone of you could be a terrorist" doesn't qualify, and thus this is a clear violation of the 4th Amendment. As is the scanner, as forcing anyone to show their nude person also (under several rulings) requires probable cause or the exceptions for entering a prison.
There is one major issue not in the favor of citizens though... the TSA (namely it's "agents") are security guards and not law enforcement. Thus they are not directly forced to behave by Terry v. Ohio, or for that matter anything else. And they do not have to reach for probable cause. But, they are agents of the government and therefore we the people are protected by our enumerated and inalienable rights. We just have to apparently point this out to the courts.
I too dislike the "we are just following orders" comments they give... like others, I apparently payed attention in history class and have seen what that attitude has lead to and frankly I doubt the human psyche has changed enough to prevent a relapse.
But I am all for refusing the back-scatter scanners and making them search my person if that is my only alternative because I have to fly somewhere. It slows them down, it slows down everything, and that is what will cause the pressure on the system. The morons going through the x-ray machine... well I guess in a few years they will learn that much like asbestos and cigarettes the government wasn't actually truthful in the damage caused by something. There is far too much evidence that their machines are harmful (most recently a large number of TSA agents reporting cancer.) It's an x-ray... I don't care how low power you set it... you weren't genetically designed to deal with it all the time. I fly several times a week, so I am not going to play in the the naked picture taking microwave generator thank you very much... both for privacy and health reasons. I love listening to the TSA agents tell people it's just like a sonogram and your cell phone is more dangerous. Really?! Maybe if you guys payed attention in high school and went on to collage you could get real jobs and stop trying to mesmerize the masses with your make believe science.
I'm personally waiting for the "anus bomber" or "laptop battery bomber" to attempt to strike. Either will shut down commercial air travel as probing people (well I know a few that might like it, but I digress) and not allowing laptops on aircraft will be the check-mate that is needed. The security theater reaction instituted by DHS and thus the TSA is their actual goal. terrorists don't even need to be successful... hell failing is actually more damaging in this case. The terrorists are winning by getting us to give up our freedoms. People, their goal is to destroy our way of life... not knock fling tin cans out of the air. They love police states where freedoms are restricted because people believe they are now safer... that's how they run things themselves. They don't need to be the ones in charge, but getting us to fall under their type of rule means they won, even if they no longer suck air in a cave with a love sheep as their only companion. They dislike freedom, they dislike private wealth, they dislike public education and free thought... I have never heard them say "man, I really hate airpla