Slashdot Mirror


OpenBSD Marches Toward 5.0 Release

badger.foo writes "OpenBSD-current just turned 5.0-beta, providing us a preview of what the upcoming release (slated for November 1st) will look like. Peter Hansteen takes us through the main new features and explains the development process that has consistently turned out high-quality releases on time, every six months for more than a decade."

16 of 112 comments (clear)

  1. OpenBSD Rock Solid OS without fluf. by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If it wasn't for the fact that most System Administrators are more comfortable with Linux or Windows (And many of the new ones are not too willing to expand that much on the command line). I would have all my servers running OpenBSD. You get it set it up to do the Job you want and let it work.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:OpenBSD Rock Solid OS without fluf. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not necessarily fun to shoehorn onto a laptop; but if the hardware comes with rack rails, generally just fine.

    2. Re:OpenBSD Rock Solid OS without fluf. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I used a PowerPC Mac Mini as a server for a few years, and had no problems with OpenBSD hardware support. Everything worked with the same interfaces as on x86. YellowDog Linux also kind-of supported the hardware, but things were strangely different from x86 (e.g. Linux puts CPU and power management stuff behind different interfaces on different architectures) and the admin interface was just different enough from RedHat to be irritating, while OpenBSD on PowerPC Mac worked just like OpenBSD everywhere else.

      A sysadmin probably wouldn't have noticed that it wasn't x86. A developer would only have noticed if they did anything endian-specific, not if they stuck to public OS interfaces. While I had the machine, I wrote some software for showing the CPU and power status which ran on a variety of systems. It had a simple abstraction layer, where each target platform implemented a few functions for platform-specific stuff. For OpenBSD, each function was one sysctl() call. I wrote them on PowerPC, someone else tested them on SPARC, x86 and x86-64, and they worked everywhere. For Linux, I had to add a dependency on a 300KB library that abstracted the differences between the different versions of Linux on x86... and then was told by the first person that tested it on PowerPC Linux that it didn't work properly there.

      So, I'd say hardware support is pretty good on OpenBSD. More importantly, the OS actually does its job and abstracts the hardware so developers don't have to pretend that they're writing DOS applications and ship a different code path for every possible combination of hardware on OpenBSD.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:OpenBSD Rock Solid OS without fluf. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The other poster already pointed out that it's got documentation. The OpenBSD team will actually back out commits that don't come with updates to the relevant man pages. Try this on OpenBSD: go through /dev, and look up every device that's listed there. Then go through /etc/ and look up every file that's there. Now try it on Linux (or FreeBSD or OS X, for that matter). OpenBSD is the only system I've used where you will actually find documentation on every device and every config file that's part of the standard install.

      More importantly, you only need to read the documentation once. Unlike Linux, OpenBSD does not replace admin tools with functionally equivalent ones with a new interface every six months. If you learn how to use OpenBSD, then you know how to use OpenBSD, on any architecture. If you learn how to use Linux, then you know how to use one version of one distribution of Linux, probably on one architecture.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:OpenBSD Rock Solid OS without fluf. by patrikas · · Score: 2

      OpenBSD is the operating system, Linux is kernel.

    5. Re:OpenBSD Rock Solid OS without fluf. by SirCyn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      OpenBSD: Two remote vulnerabilities in the default install in ~12 years. None in the last 2 years.
      Running a 2 year old copy of OpenBSD still safe (unless you make it otherwise). Your Linux ISO from 2 weeks ago is already vulnerable.

    6. Re:OpenBSD Rock Solid OS without fluf. by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      Hence my somewhat cowardly use of "necessarily". Given the fairly substantial standardization of core hardware in the x86 market(ie. either an Intel chip with an Intel chipset, or an AMD chip with either an AMD chipset or one of the remaining Nvidia ones, along with wired NIC by Intel or Broadcom and wireless by Intel, Broadcom, or a couple of others) it is hard to go too far wrong even with laptops; but laptops are the sorts of places were "realtek did something fucked up with the supposedly standardized 'HD Audio' subsystem, and now my speakers don't mute when I plug in headphones" or "the wlan device Just Doesn't Quite Wake Up Right about 10% of the time coming out of sleep" still tend to crop up with unpleasant regularity.

      At least in my experience, OpenBSD's support for 'core' hardware tends to be about as good as Linux's(sometimes better, they've led the way on a few fully-open reverse engineering efforts, sometimes worse, they've axed support for a few mostly-working-but-not-quite things that linux hasn't, like the case with that one brand of RAID adapter); but definitely good enough on servers, workstations, and prosaic desktops. If, though, there is some dodgy ACPI issue or you want Nvidia binaries to work, or your specific model of laptop has a really weird audio output mapping, or something of that nature, Linux's larger userbase makes your odds of finding a solution somewhat better. Many laptops do work just fine; but if you had to do some serious googling and bodging to get a specific one to work under linux, you are likely to have a slightly worse time doing the same under BSD.

    7. Re:OpenBSD Rock Solid OS without fluf. by david.given · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The OpenBSD technology is amazing; I'd recommend that any Linux user gives it a try to see how a Unix is supposed to work. Simple, flexible, consistent, robust, and superbly documented (there are man pages for everything, including the internal kernel APIs needed to write device drivers!). I just wish it had apt, that's all. (And better non-PC support. My main server's an ARM.)

      It's even more amazing if you've ever interacted with the OpenBSD community, who are basically dickheads. Admittedly, it's been a while since I gave up on the -misc, but the last time I was there there was some poor guy trying to discuss virtualisation and the lead developers (including Theo) were simply hurling childish abuse at him rather than, say, actually trying to communicate. And of course all their groupies were joining in. It was incredibly unpleasant.

      I suppose it's possible that they've grown up since then. I really wish they would; OpenBSD deserves a lot more attention and use. But I was so turned off by the total lack of anything resembling professionalism in the community (which is weird, because the actual docs are brilliant) that I haven't felt like going back.

    8. Re:OpenBSD Rock Solid OS without fluf. by rubycodez · · Score: 2

      What an ignorant set up statements, the application set is huge (over 6000 binary packages for amd/intel) and includes all the common apps for desktop, languages, web.

      The users number in the thousands at least, and moreover, unless your a windoze weenie, you are likely typing your troll into a machine with code on it from the OpenBSD team.

    9. Re:OpenBSD Rock Solid OS without fluf. by jgrahn · · Score: 2

      More importantly, you only need to read the documentation once. Unlike Linux, OpenBSD does not replace admin tools with functionally equivalent ones with a new interface every six months. If you learn how to use OpenBSD, then you know how to use OpenBSD, on any architecture. If you learn how to use Linux, then you know how to use one version of one distribution of Linux, probably on one architecture.

      Version: is it unfair to expect things to actually *change* between versions? I don't think so.

      Distribution: surely you cannot expect RedHat EL, Debian, Slackware etc to all be exactly identical!

      Hardware: you described upthread your problems with Yellowdog Linux on x86 and PPC. I cannot explain that experience. Yellowdog Linux must suck, because I'm using Debian on x86 and PPC, and there are *no* unreasonable differences. The only ones I can think of is the bootloader and the disk partitioning scheme, and both are genuine platform differences.

  2. Re:Not to be outdone... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    OpenBSD 5.0 will be released in November.
    Twice a year releases mean that we knew this back in 1996.
    And 5.0 will be just as much a major release as 4.9 was.

  3. Safer on old systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If your hardware is older, OpenBSD is a safer environment - if your CPU does not implement the NX bit, OpenBSD manages the same functionality with W^X. Many other memory-handling features make the system safer (malloc with mmap, rather than sbrk, for example), although there can be a performance penalty.

    OpenBSD implements privilege separation in many of the daemons of the base system (ftpd, dhcpd, ntpd, sshd), so you can trust them more.

    OpenBSD's alternate daemons for well-known protocols (ntpd, smtpd) give you some "security through obscurity," and you also gain flexibility.

    There are also custom patches for well-known servers to improve security (apache chroot).

    In a number of ways, OpenBSD is the "Reference UNIX Security implementation." Come see why.

  4. Audio by pr0nbot · · Score: 2

    Sweet! Does it ship with Pulse Audio?

  5. what's the objective? by Onymous+Coward · · Score: 2

    However there are many people who try to seem smarter than they're, and they might deserve to be made fun of.

    Leaving aside the moral debate of when a person deserves mistreatment, what is the value of abusively mocking someone in a public forum? It does not raise the level of discourse to something productive. At the least it's a kind of friction and so energy goes out the window as a kind of heat loss. Maybe it's a kind of turbulence that amplifies the original wobble of stupidity rather than smoothing things back into a laminar flow. Maybe it promotes a culture of antagonism, resulting in rampant friction and turbulence throughout, even in areas where there's small and meaningful/useful disagreement.

    From what I can tell, it's an emotionally underdeveloped way of giving in to one's anger urges rather than a well-considered method for advancing discussion and making progress. You could say it retards progress. There are other, more sophisticated, and actually beneficial ways for handling disagreement and coping with people who are patently wrong.

  6. Sorry to hear that..... by mevets · · Score: 2

    but did you ever figure out why virtualization is a bad hack to prop up crappy software?

  7. Re:BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore by Moridineas · · Score: 4, Informative

    Poettering:
    "You're not welcome to complain if it's free"

    On how the speaker got feedback from various mailing lists/communities:
    Poettering: "You didn't ask the right people...next time just ask me, thank you very much."

    Poettering:
    "I'm sorry your mindset from the 1970s unix is not up-to-date anymore...*booos*...I see, lots of UNIX lovers here...*cheers*

    Speaker:
    (after talking about hald)
    Poettering: "Ok, hald has been deprecated for 2 years, not my fault people still use it."
    speaker: Yes, but it's got these limitations, we should get rid of it, do you agree
    Poettering: No, when we designed it it was great, it did all these things that could never be done before
    speaker: but it never worked
    Poettering: you're doing it wrong, it worked great.

    The guy interrupted the speaker for the entire talk and then got up and stage after him and took the mic. What an asshole. Completely regardless of whether or not you disagree with the speaker, it's just plain rude to interrupt a talk like that.