Windows XP In a Browser

An anonymous reader writes "JPC — the pure java PC emulator — has now been upgraded to JPC2, and can run WindowsXP inside the Java Applet sandbox."

Comments

Wow, that sounds painful

[jandrese]

I assume this is for those times where you want your Core i7 machine to run like a 486?

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[JoeDuncan]

It'll come in handy to run those old DOS games that aren't properly clocked and run *way* too fast on modern machines....

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[jawtheshark]

That's /really/ old DOS games (Think Alley Cat), and DoxBox handles those situation just fine. The later Win9x games (not runninig under DOS or the DOS4GW extender) were already correctly time. Well, I haven't ever encountered one that wasn't.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[ByOhTek]

Since when did 486s use NEARLY that much energy?

That's nothing 486-like at all!

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Monkey-Man2000]

It'll come in handy to run those old DOS games that aren't properly clocked and run *way* too fast on modern machines....

Or you could just use DOSBox for that situation.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[zget]

However, the point is somewhat valid. Vista/Win7 driver and security model changed so much that there are now lots of games that just don't work on them. Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 is a great example of that. It's even kind of painful to get to run under virtual machine, but at least possible. Kind of sad, because it's an awesome game.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Hatta]

Even games as recent as Wing Commander II (1991) relied on clock cycles for timing.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

You do realize that 1991 was 20 years ago, right? I don't know what your definition of recent is, but it clearly differs from mine.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[sharkey]

It's STILL faster than Vista, though.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Swimming_Code]

Unreal Tournament (the original, circa 1997(?)) has an issue with speed stepping processors. It relies on the clock speed at startup of the game for timing.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[interkin3tic]

I assume this is for those times where you want your Core i7 machine to run like a 486?

No, it's for when you want to run your core i3 like your roomate's PC in college. You know that roomate. The one who never met a popup he didn't like. The one who thought "internet browser" was the street word for "internet explorer." The one who somehow found a way to stop those pesky updates. The one who thought antivirus software was a condom. The one who from 1 pm to 3am browsed porn in a 3 inch tall window, the only real estate on his screen not taken up by various search helper bars.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[AngryDeuce]

Oh, that guy? Fuck that guy. He still owes me $50 bucks in cab fair...

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

My college roommate had never heard of a "browser". Neither had I.
Get off my lawn.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[slimjim8094]

GTA Vice City on PC uses the frame rate for timing and that came out in 2003. If you turn off frame limiting, some really strange things break, like cars that won't reverse, or unwinnable races. Really frustrating because it otherwise works fine, and I wasn't sure it wasn't my fault.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

OMG! gettimeofday is so expensive. Every cycle count, let use a lame asm clock speed routine instead!

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

Wing Commander (1 and 2) had a key combination (I believe alt + NUM+) which would increase the frame duration making it possible to play on newer hardware.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[reeno49]

I thought we settled that with me promising to switch to Netscape.

I knew you'd hold it over my head...

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

Believe it or not, but Alley Cat has proper timing routines and don't rely on clock cycles for timing. It runs fine on whatever CPU you have. Only badly programmed code relies on software loops and clock cycles for timing.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

now lots of games that just don't work on them

Out of the 300+ games I own I have had 2 that did not work in win7. (small aside, why she wants 300 games installed all the same time? I have no FREEKING idea why. I usually keep 1 or 2. Its best not to ask.) Most even run decently in a protected user account. I have 2 normal games and 1 java game that insists running as admin user.

Now under virtualization is a WHOLE different ball of wax. If it uses any sort of hw 3d acceleration. It runs the gamut from works good to crashing the whole vm.

BTW installing that many CD's takes about 3 days.

Now the games I have are probably not a good sample size but it shows your 'lots of games' comment does not hold much water. Have to give RCT2 a try been a few years since I played it. But if I remember correctly it did install properly in vista. So I may have a slightly different version than you?

Also I have had a lot of luck installing it in a VM then moving it to win7. Snapshoting things really makes it easy to undo what a game installer does and lets you compare quickly what to change in the filesystem and in the registry.

Also when installing with win7 make sure you 'run as administrator' or it is a 50/50 shot if it will work at all. Some games are 32 bit yet have 16 bit installers. Those have been a real pain with 64bit win7. You pretty much have to do the VM thing or have an old box laying around.

Now if I could just get after dark to work I would be happy. But sadly it used the win98 model of vxd's.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

Unreal tourment is from 1999 and use ms-dos age timing code. In 1996, Quake was using gettimeofday. This is why i always prefered Quake over all the quake-clone.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Garridan]

Who are you calling really old? Death Track is still the best racing game ever made.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[jawtheshark]

Really? Damnit, that means it was meant to be played in that insane pace...

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[jawtheshark]

Probably myself, as I have played Alley Cat (and have fond memories of it)... I don't know Death Track though...

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Conspiracy_Of_Doves]

What do you mean? Alley Cat was one of the few DOS games I remember that didn't increase in speed as the processor speed went up.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[ChaoticCoyote]

Yeah, that's pretty much my thinking -- why would anyone want to do this, outside of very specialized circumstances?

I used virtual machines, of course -- for example, I keep a Fedora 15 install on my Window machines via Virtal Box, and I do run the Win XP that comes with Win 7 Pro. But those are simply conveniences, with only one layer of abstraction, and even with only that, both run highly inefficiently and fail to fully use the hardware I paid for.

I don't understand why people would buy high-powered equipment and then run something that cripples it. What's the advantage or purpose of running Win XP in a browser? I can't think or a single one.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

There are way more recent examples of clock-cycle dependent games. The original Quake2 engine version of SIN is one, and so is Daikatana. They act really weird on fast computers.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[cervesaebraciator]

Did that guy just call me old?

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

Quake was using gettimeofday. This is why i always prefered Quake over all the quake-clone.

Man, you must be really fun at parties.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[shoehornjob]

LMAO I remember the screen freezes along with the tortured sounds coming from the speakers. That was a great game when I finally got it to work properly. What ever happened to Unreal Tournament? When they got a few titles under the belt they produced some amazing work (anyone remember UT 2004). And the mods/maps were just awesome. I remember this one "hall of giants" in low gravity with some nuke tipped weapon and the bounce pads. Damn I played the shit out of that game. Gonna have to find the disk and install it again.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[shoehornjob]

It's STILL faster than Vista, though.

LMAO he's got a point. Vista 64 ran like a slow fat pig. Windows explorer would give you the circle of death every time you attempted to browse the file system. When 7 came out I Office Spaced the crap outa that disk.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Mr. Vage]

I can think of one. Grim Fandango has one area that you can't get out of if your processor is too fast. I had to run a program to chew up my processor cycles to get through it.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[foamrat]

I still play the game, and Hall of Giants is still one of my favorite maps.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

> I assume this is for those times where you want your Core i7 machine to run like a 486?

No, for that you use M$ Win... hey, this guy's a genius!

(*) Personal opinion, I bet shared by many Windows users.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[dunkelfalke]

I've started using Vista for x64 with the SP1 and it actually ran quite well. I could not notice much speed difference between XP and Vista and then later Vista and 7.

I do not use Windows explorer, though, that must be the reason why I actually was content with Vista.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Medevilae]

Your birth wasn't 'recent' if it was 20 years ago, so no.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[steveg]

Guess so.

1991 counts as recent in my book.

I ran into problems in 1987 trying to run games that I bought in 1982. I'd agree that *those* aren't recent.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[shoehornjob]

I'm glad to hear someone else likes that map. Imagine how cool it would look if they put out a newer version of Unreal Tournament. The graphics were never that great but the game play goes on and on.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[John Bresnahan]

Just tell him to get off your grass, and move on.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[jawtheshark]

Yes, yes, I've been corrected already. I just remember it as insanely fast. Seems, the fast pace was intended.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

Just being sophomoric : Alley cat didn't rely on clock cycles. Most games those years did however.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[turgid]

There was sufficient diversity in PeeCee hardware by 1991 (and I dare say that compilers were good enough to write games in portable high-level languages like C or Pascal) that clock cycle counting for timing was a bad idea.

By then there were a plethora of different processors on the market and in use. Just in the PeeCee compatible world there were all of the intel processors (8086, 80286, 80386SX, 80386DX, 80486) and clones from NEC and AMD with different clock cycle counts per instruction, cache memory, different instructions being available, etc....

Heck, if your game was written in C you might even have been able to (recompile and) run it on a 68000-based machine with hardware-accelerated graphics.

1991 wasn't all that primitive.

Now, 1981 is a different story... A hex loader was a luxury in those days and colour and sound was for posh people...

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[shutdown -p now]

Imagine how cool it would look if they put out a newer version of Unreal Tournament.

They did. It didn't fair anywhere as well as UT2004, much less the original UT.

Still, why would you care? The original game still works great with all the recent patches (esp. if you take the unofficial ones). All the awesome maps are still there. All the awesome mods (Strangelove!) are still there. Install it and have fun!

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[TexNA55]

.............. I keep a Fedora 15 install on my Window machines via Virtal Box, and I do run the Win XP that comes with Win 7 Pro. But those are simply conveniences....

You got that backwards.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

More recently than that, Fallout 2 uses them to time movement on the world map while timing events on the world map to the system clock. So you go at warp speed and have very few random encounters.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[LaneLester]

This summer I taught a biology course where I dug out an old DOS predator-prey simulation (Sharks!) which ran entirely too fast in a current PC. If I had this, it would have worked better, I think.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[JoeDuncan]

lol! Obviously DosBox is perfect for that! I was making a facetious comment with regards to running Windows XP in a JVM.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[JoeDuncan]

Apparently you didn't get the joke.

Of course if running DOS games at their appropriate speed is your goal, then DOSBox is obviously the solution...

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[JoeDuncan]

Sorry, if you were born within the last 20 years, that definitely counts as recent.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[ChaoticCoyote]

No, I don't have it backwards, Of the four computers in my office, three run Linux distros as their boot OS; one runs Windows 7. Don't be such an automatic smartass.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[PwnzerDragoon]

Beyond Good and Evil (2003) had a similar problem. It didn't affect gameplay, but it did cause A/V sync issues on cutscenes.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[unitron]

When you say you don't use Windows Explorer, are you referring to the internet browser or the thing that replaced File Manager when Windows went from 3.1 to 95?

And if the latter, what did you use instead to see what file was where on your hard drive(s)?

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[dudpixel]

I assume this is for those times where you want your Core i7 machine to run like a 486?

nope, its for those times when you want to run windows...oh wait...nevermind.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Lunzo]

There was one mission that we couldn't do in GTA San Andreas for the same reason. It was the one where you ride a motorbike into the back of a plane as it takes off. I think the smoke and other effects were slowing down our frame rate too much.

It worked on a new machine I got not too long after that. So games being linked to clock speed or FPS is still a problem.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[UncleTogie]

1991 counts as recent in my book.

Yeah, try installing a game that requires WinG... I had a client come in recently trying to get an old game running on Windows 7. Only worked up as far as XP with tweaks, unfortunately.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[akayani]

Yes but don't expect it to run in any version of IE.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be new here.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

You have fun clients.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[dunkelfalke]

I am perfectly aware to the distinction between Internet Explorer and Windows Explorer (although I use neither).

For all file management I use Total Commander, which is a matter of habit, since I've used Norton Commander since 1991 or so.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[jawtheshark]

Oh, you know slashdot... I did realize you were trying to be funny, I just went on with standard nerd reaction. That said, I failed miserably, as I picked the one game that didn't have the flaw we were talking about.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

Recent? I know it feels like yesterday, but it's been 20 years, man!

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[tehcyder]

Even games as recent as Wing Commander II (1991) relied on clock cycles for timing.

Er, Windows 3 had only just come out in 1991. That was a human generation ago, and in computer terms practically Medieval history.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[jones_supa]

Beyond Good and Evil also seems to be incompatible with 64-bit Windows 7. It installs some copy protection software, which then uninstalls itself immediately.

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[mcgrew]

It wasn't just games, either. We got new "Pee Seas" (as someone called them) at work ten or so years ago, and FoxPro 6 wouldn't run, even though they used the same OS (Win 98).

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[mcgrew]

Wow, you got grass? Groovy! Can I have a toke?

Um, where am I again? Where's my walker?

Re:Wow, that sounds painful

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not sure I would consider a 20 year old game that recent.

Licensing issue?

[Xocet_00]

This has to violate the license terms of XP.

Re:Licensing issue?

[Anonymous Coward]

And this is why IP is useless. If i purchase software, I should be able to use it on any device I can get it to run on.

Re:Licensing issue?

[rbrausse]

no, according to the EULA you are allowed to:

You may install, use, access, display and run one copy of the Product on a single computer, such as a workstation, terminal or other device (“Workstation Computer”).

I don't see any rationale why a virtualized environment isn't accepted as a computer - but you need for every instance a own XP license.

If I remember correctly the EULA of Windows Vista (excluding Ultimate) forbade virtualization.

Re:Licensing issue?

[SteveFoerster]

And if so, well, that's tragic. Really, terribly, depressingly tragic. Or something.

Re:Licensing issue?

[blair1q]

You don't purchase software. You purchase a software license. And a copy of the licensed software. You can sell the copy, but with it goes the license. This is an argument that was resolved in the licensor's favor half a century ago.

Re:Licensing issue?

[gfxguy]

I don't get it... I have a handful of XP discs that I legally bought... my computer is dual boot, if instead I used one of those discs to install XP as some virtual instance, what's the problem?

Re:Licensing issue?

[Jeng]

Didn't MS for a while claim that if you replaced your motherboard you needed a new license?

Or was that just a myth?

Re:Licensing issue?

[blair1q]

Doesn't say "instance." Says "copy." It'd be hard to have 500 tasks running if you could only have one instance of the task object, e.g.

My computer is one box full of computer parts, regardless of how it gets configured by software.

So if I create 500 VMs on one computer and run 500 instances of the Windows kernel, I'm not violating my license, as long as the instances were started from the same copy of the software on the HD.

Unless the license explicitly says I can't.

Re:Licensing issue?

[Anonymous Coward]

And if I remember correctly, the collective response of the world was "Why the fuck would you want to run Vista anyways?"

Re:Licensing issue?

[blair1q]

If the license says you can't, then it's a legal issue. Physically it's clearly no problem at all.

Re:Licensing issue?

[Mister Whirly]

MS never made such a "claim". The issue was with Windows validation - if you changed enough minor components, or a major component in your system, Windows would interpret that as being installed to another system. It happened to me once, and a simple 5 minute call to MS tech support cleared it right up. If anyone bought another license in this situation, they really should have called MS first.

Re:Licensing issue?

[wootest]

If you change enough of your hardware, including motherboard, you need to reactivate Windows.

There have also been weird licensing terms for a number of products (Oracle and certainly Windows Server versions) that don't make much sense or skyrocket when you combine the concepts of actual socketed CPUs vs CPU cores vs virtualized CPUs.

Re:Licensing issue?

[Anonymous Coward]

OEM versions (as opposed to retail box versions) were tied to a specific computer. Bought an HP desktop with XP in 2001, then built a new machine yourself in 2008? You can't move the license. Microsoft needed something to tie the license to, as they didn't want installing a new hard drive or mouse to kill the license. They settled on the motherboard as being "the computer" for purposes of licensing. IIRC, there was still an exception for failed motherboards.

Re:Licensing issue?

[pavon]

To add to the above posters, the only instance in which Microsoft might choose to not authenticate your computer when this occurred would be if you had OEM Windows XP license, because you are not allowed to install that on any other computer than the one you bought it on. In practice they were pretty lenient, but the strict terms of the XP license did cause me to avoid it in favor of Win2k.

Re:Licensing issue?

[h4rr4r]

But you can install on a VM on that computer, so long as it is not also installed as the OS. Since it is only installed once and installed on the same hardware.

Or has this changed?

Re:Licensing issue?

[PopeRatzo]

If the license says you can't, then it's a legal issue.

It's only a legal issue to the extent that it's enforced.

Since it won't be enforced, it's no issue at all. It's certainly not a moral issue.

Re:Licensing issue?

[LordLimecat]

Thats only for OEM licenses.

Re:Licensing issue?

[just_another_sean]

Yes, exactly. An OEM license is for the machine it was installed on and that machine only. So the only way to transfer the license is if you are giving/selling the whole PC to someone else.

What I'm not sure of is the rules on upgrading components. I know switching out the MB or even just the network card* can cause Windows to want to re-activate. Nor sure if enough changes to the original machine invalidate the OEM license.

* I once had Windows force me to re-activate because I rebooted with the network card disabled. Total PITA as it wanted me to activate before I logged in but couldn't do so over the internet because the network card was disabled. A call to MS solved the issue but it still sucked.

Re:Licensing issue?

[blair1q]

It's only a legal issue to the extent that it's enforced.

That's an ethical issue. It's always a legal issue.

Re:Licensing issue?

[interkin3tic]

Is it safe to assume that MS's lawyers would try to clamp down on this? On the one hand, it doesn't seem like this will be causing MS to lose revenue. Maybe there's a use I'm not thinking of here, but this seems more like a novelty thing than a way to get a valuable product for cheap, I can't see many people buying a computer free of windows, installing linux, and installing this just to run an obsolete OS for free.

On the other hand, all companies these days seem to think that someone using one of their products without giving them a cut = war crime and billions of dollars in losses.

Re:Licensing issue?

[AngryDeuce]

There was a limited number of hardware changes you could make before the online activation would not work and necessitate a call to Customer Service to get an activation code manually. All this really entailed was a 10 minute phone call to a toll free number where you spoke to an Indian guy named either George or Bob and you were good to go. I had to do it many times over the years as I had a 2001-era XP disc that I used across about a dozen builds until I finally got Windows 7 about 2 years ago.

Updates sure were a bitch, though. Downloading SP1, 2 and 3 took ages even on my 10 meg connection...

Re:Licensing issue?

[jthill]

As you say, there's a difference between license and ownership. They've licensed one copy of the software. For software sold at stores, where you hand over your money and they give you the box or the download, they don't own the purchaser. Specific terms beyond the universally-understood ~this is licensed for use on one system at a time~ (or say 5 or whatever for stuff sold as a "family pack") are in contract territory, attempting to impose terms after they have your money is pure self-entitled grabbery.

Re:Licensing issue?

[SkyDude]

This has to violate the license terms of XP.

XP violates me. Thanks MS.

Re:Licensing issue?

[Coren22]

All this really entailed was a 10 minute phone call to a toll free number where you spoke to an Indian guy named either George or Bob(...)

It wasn't Sue?

Re:Licensing issue?

[Anonymous Coward]

citation needed

Re:Licensing issue?

[AngryDeuce]

You know, I've never spoken to this oft-mentioned "Sue". I must get the male-only call centers...

Re:Licensing issue?

[Jeng]

Updates sure were a bitch, though. Downloading SP1, 2 and 3 took ages even on my 10 meg connection

Too bad no one introduced you to Nlite. You could have created a custom install disc with the service packs already in, as well as drivers and other goodies.

http://www.nliteos.com/

Re:Licensing issue?

[hedwards]

Indeed, one issue there is that MS charges for support and it was never clear to me whether they'd charge for this particular call or not. Unfortunately, they demand payment whether or not it's their fault.

In this case their validation program is pretty much completely incompetent to the point that they ought to be paying people to run it. Good luck changing between single and multicore kernels, you'll find yourself in the position where it can't be validated without reinstalling IE, which isn't really documented in any official place that I've seen.

Re:Licensing issue?

[hedwards]

If you've got an OEM copy then it should be pre-activated. If you're not comfortable with that, you can use the key that comes with the computer, and I haven't had any trouble with that beyond what one would have with a regular key.

Re:Licensing issue?

[hedwards]

AFAIK that was never true. I think that may have applied to using the OEM key, but any computer purchased with a legitimate license should have come with a machine specific key that you were supposed to use for that purpose.

Re:Licensing issue?

[Anonymous Coward]

XP is old so I bet a copy can bought very cheaply, without the user ever having any serious incentive to bother getting a license.

Even if XP were expensive, something like this could possibly be so useful that someone just might pay it, in order to be able to do the things that becoming bound by a license would prohibit. I guess that all depends on how expensive, but this is Windows XP we're talking about.

One use that comes to mind for this, is MSIE testing. Being able to run Internet Explorer inside a web browser might be worthwhile, even if it is slow.

Re:Licensing issue?

[Mister Whirly]

No, calling MS for Windows validation support was absolutely free, even a toll-free number to call. I suppose it depends on the issue, but validation issues are free support. I have called twice about this issue and neither time did they try to charge me anything.

Re:Licensing issue?

[CastrTroy]

Not only that, but last time this happened to me, I simply did the online re-registration and it went through just fine. No phone call required.

Re:Licensing issue?

[bberens]

That's not true. I purchased my OEM version of XP and it came with a serial cable which the vendor dubbed the "computer." In order to transfer the license legally I'd have to provide the future buyer with the cable.

Re:Licensing issue?

[Coren22]

Sorry, wrong name, meant to reference the Discover commercials where Peggy answers the phone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md43_fjlY-M

Re:Licensing issue?

[Anonymous Coward]

But I pirated it so I can't call tech support. MS sucks!!!

Re:Licensing issue?

[Drgnkght]

If you've got an OEM copy then it should be pre-activated.

Only for certain types of OEM copies. OEM copies from large manufacturers such as Dell, Gateway, etc. would usually come pre-activated. However you could also buy OEM copies of Windows which were not activated. (They were supposed to only be sold to end-users with hardware, but a mouse is technically hardware...)

Re:Licensing issue?

[just_another_sean]

OK, for varying definitions of true I'll accept that but I'm pretty sure that "vendor" broke whatever contract they were supposed to have with Microsoft by doing so.

Re:Licensing issue?

[PopeRatzo]

It's only a legal issue to the extent that it's enforced.

So, if I spit on the sidewalk in a ghost town, is it a legal issue?

Is a law that is never enforced a law? Does "The Law" exist on some Olympian plane where a ledger is kept on all the laws that were broken but nobody noticed?

I have either just watched an R5 copy of X-Men: First Class or I didn't. What's the difference? That's a movie that I would never, ever pay to see. I probably wouldn't even spend 1.5 hours to see it. I might not spend the energy to lift my eyelids to see it.

So, I am either a criminal or I am not, based upon whether or not I watched a certain stream of pixels play across my monitor. What is the difference?

Is that what you mean by "a legal issue"?

Re:Licensing issue?

[jonbryce]

It's no more a licensing issue than me running XP on Parallels on this computer. In other words, I do need to have a licensed copy of Windows for it.

Re:Licensing issue?

[PwnzerDragoon]

OT, but First Class is much better than X3 and Wolverine. Still not up to the first two movies, but not the stinkers the last two were either.

Re:Licensing issue?

[PopeRatzo]

First Class is much better than X3 and Wolverine.

I agree.

But I wouldn't really know because I haven't watched an R5 rip of the movie.

Because that would be illegal. ; )

Re:Licensing issue?

[unitron]

It would seem that there is a dearth of Shel Silverstein/Johnny Cash fans on /.

Re:Licensing issue?

[itsme1234]

An OEM license is for the machine it was installed on and that machine only. So the only way to transfer the license is if you are giving/selling the whole PC to someone else.

That's what they would like you to believe. This was successfully challenged in Germany and as a result you can buy naked OEM licenses both from known shops and from Ebay. Even if you aren't in Germany I'm sure they won't legally go after you if you just treat the OEM as a normal copy, they are satisfied enough with people being scared and can't take the risk of "upgrading" all OEM copies in a country to full copies overnight if they lose a lawsuit. Please note that Microsoft are well known for wild claims related to OEM copies, to the point where they were claiming you can't even trash the OEM copy you got: http://slashdot.org/story/02/04/18/1623240/Microsofts-Guide-to-Accepting-Donated-PCs

Re:Licensing issue?

[tehcyder]

So, if I spit on the sidewalk in a ghost town, is it a legal issue?

If it's illegal to spit on the sidewalk in that ghost town, yes it is a legal issue (I'm not American, so I don't know how weird your example seems to you).

If laws are stupid or simply unenforceable, they should be removed from the statute books. Until they are, breaking a law is still breaking a law.

But as someone said above, this is not the same as it being a moral issue.

So in terms of illegally accessing copyrighted works, if that's the law and you break it you should be prepared to take the theoretical consequences, or more usefully try to get the law changed.

Re:Licensing issue?

[tehcyder]

Not only that, but last time this happened to me, I simply did the online re-registration and it went through just fine. No phone call required.

Same here. I've never spoken on the phone to anyone from Microsoft in all the time I've been using their products. I'm not particularly pro-Microsoft (having access to Windows is largely for games, at least at home) but I do have to say that all the fuss over registering/authorising Windows was pretty overblown.

Blah blah, mod me down for not calling MS entirely evil.

Re:Licensing issue?

[tehcyder]

Ok, you break the law by getting round the MS licence, I'll break the law by roasting you over a pit of red hot coals.

Oh, wait, you don't get to decide which laws suit you, do you?

Re:Licensing issue?

[SteveFoerster]

To say there's no moral difference between my resisting state-granted entitlements of monopoly on information and your physically assaulting an actual person is ridiculous. We all have to decide which laws suit us. To do otherwise is to be a slave.

Re:Licensing issue?

[Tim C]

I don't know about all suppliers, but when I bought my OEM copy of XP Pro the hardware had to be non-peripheral, so no, a mouse would not suffice. That said a floppy drive would, and they're cheaper if anything.

Re:Licensing issue?

[Just Some Guy]

Well done, Consumer. You've collected five Obedience Points and here is your (non-transferable) Good Boy Treat.

Re:Licensing issue?

[blair1q]

So, if I spit on the sidewalk in a ghost town, is it a legal issue?

Yes. You broke the law, even if there was nobody to enforce it.

Why? Support soon to cease.

[Anonymous Coward]

Support will cease from Microsoft in April of 2014. What's the point of running a 10+ year old OS?

how long befor they get a copyright notice and

[Joe_Dragon]

Need to pull the windows OS image files?

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[nschubach]

I run a 20 year old OS... well, a 20 year old kernel. ;)

I imagine it's like mountain climbing: "Because it's there."

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[Medevilae]

Showing their emulator can handle it...

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[Jeng]

Exactly what kind of support do you expect to get when you are running Windows XP in a browser window. Do you really expect MS to provide you support for such a non-standard instillation?

NSFW?

[pz]

When I try to visit the linked page, I get ---

This Page Cannot Be Displayed

Based on your corporate access policies, this web site ( http://jpc2.com/ ) has been blocked because it has been determined by Web Reputation Filters to be a security threat to your computer or the corporate network. This web site has been associated with malware/spyware.

Threat Type: Othermalware
Threat Reason: Hosted on IP controlled by a group or individual known to be malicious.

If you have questions, please contact your corporate network administrator and provide the codes shown below.
Notification codes: (1, MALWARE, Othermalware, Hosted on IP controlled by a group or individual known to be malicious., BLOCK-MALWARE, http://jpc2.com/)

That does not inspire confidence.

Re:NSFW?

[Anonymous Coward]

The IP address is owned by FDC Servers, a relatively reputable hosting company. The knocks against them are generally for their shitty customer service, I've never heard of any malware or spam complaints about them. However, like with any hosting company, it's possible someone hosted some sort of malware there at some point. Or it's possible your company web filtering is kind of shitty, since all of them are, and false positives are a fact of life. In any event, I wouldn't read too much into it.

Re:NSFW?

[Jeng]

What program is blocking it?

After googling a bit it may just be outdated information, looks like the website has changed hands a few times. Currently owned by eMediaTrack, you can also find information about the jpc on their website.

http://www.emediatrack.net/

Oddly their website is a lot more informative than the jpc2.com website.

Re:NSFW?

[Anonymous Coward]

Threat Type: Othermalware

Without trying to MS bash (but doing so anyway)... isn't that the normal /. opinion of MS software?

Except the link is to the emulator, not to Windows XP. An emulator that, I suspect, could run Linux with equal ease.

Re:NSFW?

[Terrasque]

After seeing one of those companies define a .css file as "hardcore porn" I kinda lost the faith in them a bit.

Re:NSFW?

[PenquinCoder]

When I try and visit it (Linux x64, Chrome) I get Error 324 (net::ERR_EMPTY_RESPONSE): The server closed the connection without sending any data.

Re:NSFW?

[Jeng]

Which if you checked their website you would have seen that they have ubuntu 6 and ubuntu 8 available.

Re:NSFW?

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't you know? CSS stands for c0ck suck1ng slu7s.

Re:NSFW?

[Curate]

What?!? So I've been hoarding .css files for nothing?

Re:NSFW?

[Anonymous Coward]

I still have a screenshot somewhere of a filtering program refusing to show me google.com, because files with the extension ".jpg" were banned.

Re:NSFW?

[idontgno]

That's a Cisco IronPort web filter warning. (Speaking of warning, WARNING: Marketing PDF)

I dunno where that particular device got that "web reputation" record for that particular website. It might be outdated, or GP's company may have some weird fetish about executing code in remote VMs.

Re:NSFW?

[davidbrit2]

Well, it is a Java applet...

Re:NSFW?

[Anonymous Coward]

dont read too much into it, our filter at work blocks oracle as a "freeware" website on a bi-weekly basis (they keep having to re-make exceptions for it), and kernel.org as a known security threat. whoever makes the master lists that we subscribe to I really have to say WTF.

Though they did manage to get a permanant exception for youtube and facebook here.....

Re:NSFW?

[Anonymous Coward]

When I try to visit the linked page, I get ---

This Page Cannot Be Displayed

...

Notification codes: (1, MALWARE, Othermalware, Hosted on IP controlled by a group or individual known to be malicious., BLOCK-MALWARE, http://jpc2.com/)

That does not inspire confidence.

Yeah, I work for the govt and see that all the time. It never affected my opinion of the page I was trying to access. It DID affect my opinion of our network admins and their 'security'. Google cache ftw.

Re:NSFW?

[Anonymous Coward]

Threat Type: Othermalware

O Thermal Ware - what's this - thermal underwear porn?

Re:NSFW?

[Anonymous Coward]

Which if you checked their website you would have seen that they have ubuntu 6 and ubuntu 8 available.

Except their website seems to be running on their emulator and I haven't been able to reach it yet.

Re:NSFW?

[unitron]

"O Thermal Ware"

Sung to the tune of "Oh Canada".

Re:NSFW?

[DaVince21]

The web page is hosting some Java applets. Your company might have dediced that *all* Java applets are some sort of risk to security.

Besides, none of the browsers I use give me a bright red warning page, which means it's very likely just safe.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[jawtheshark]

I have a (few) licenses, it works and I don't want to spend money for nothing? I still have to see what Windows 7 brings to the table that interests me. Apart from having moved every possible setting under the sun, confusing users of a stable well known interface.... Yes, 64-bit... That would be the only point. However, for my day to day Internet antics a Atom D525 suffices with 2GB RAM. (It runs Ubuntu, but if I wanted Windows, I really should opt for XP). Again. 64-bit? Who cares. Computer performance is "there" for most users, regardless of what they do. Games, scientific computing and CAD are excluded of that.

infos please

[rbrausse]

the site is very scarce with facts, only a couple of lines in "About". cool project, but a nice example of slashvertisement - we learn _nothing_ about the technology, only that it's SECURE and coded in java...

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[kakyoin01]

"Dropping XP support" is just a clever term for Microsoft's "final XP feature".

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[kevinmenzel]

And the NT kernel is old too. But XP is built around a particularly old release of that kernel, and there have been two releases since then.

Speed!

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, running a virtual CPU, inside an interpreter which runs a virtual CPU.

The only way to get more speed, since everyone KNOWS java is FASTER than C/C++ is to run the java interpreter, on a java interpreter written in java.

That way we can have a virtual machine, running a virtual machine compiler, running a virtual machine.

Think of the SPEED!

Re:Speed!

[neminem]

By which I think you mean: yo dog, I heard you liked java, so I built an interpreter for your interpreter so you can run bytecode while you run bytecode?

Re:Speed!

[DaVince21]

To be 100% fair, though. Java is at least close to native compiled languages at this point. Much more so than a language like, say, JS, which also has to camp with the rather CPU-heavy DOM.

Plus het, DOSBox was written in C++, and this is faster than DOSBox if it can run Windows XP.

Nothing new:

[Anonymous Coward]

That's pretty much how I feel about Microsoft products in general.

Does it support protected mode?

[Lieutenant_Dan]

I had a couple of apps that I wrote in Borland Pascal 7 that I tried to play with it, somehow the DOS (DPMI) extender just didn't work properly since I compiled them in protected mode to use paging . Now, this was with the previous edition of JPC.

Anyone had any luck and can share their insights?

Re:Does it support protected mode?

[Anonymous Coward]

being able to run stuff like windows xp implies that the virtual cpu of the software supports protected mode.

Else it could run only pure dos... you might need an alternative dos extender, though if you install a pure dos image inside any vm you should get it to work (I can't remember anymore if the bp7 dpmi was supported to be run under win 3.0+, but i think so)

you might have to tune the autoexec.bat/config.sys to load the appropriate .sys driver though

Turtles!

[infodragon]

It's garbage collection all they way down!

Yo dawg

[logjon]

We heard you like bloat, so we put bloat in your bloat so you can wait while you wait.

Re:Yo dawg

[dilvish_the_damned]

Its a three engine power bloat

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[Pentium100]

New does not mean better. New especially does not mean that the old device/version ceases to work.
My car is 29 years old, I record TV shows on a 15 year old VCR, I also have 40+ year old audio devices (a tape recorder and a radio). They all work quite well despite the fact that there are newer versions of these devices out.

Same thing with an OS. why should I spend money on new hardware and software when my current PC is good enough? Just because the new software is "new"? No.

And why

[Anonymous Coward]

would I want my browser to crash and get infected with malware and related pests?

Thanks, but no thanks!

Pfff....

[Anonymous Coward]

I virtualized Windows XP using redstone in Minecraft ages ago...

Really?

[fafaforza]

Not one joke about a basic HTML page with a blue background? Slashdot, you're slipping!

Re:Really?

[Infiniti2000]

If I could see the page, I might comment on it!

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not one joke about a basic HTML page with a blue background? Slashdot, you're slipping!

I made a virtual XP machine in a web browser with only 1 line of code!

body bgcolor="Blue"

Does that work for you? It made me chuckle.

Re:Really?

[tehcyder]

Not one joke about a basic HTML page with a blue background? Slashdot, you're slipping!

I made a virtual XP machine in a web browser with only 1 line of code!

body bgcolor="Blue"

Does that work for you? It made me chuckle.

The now legendary Blue Screen of Death had an error message written on it though, didn't it?

Re:Really?

[fafaforza]

The code that prints that error message itself crashed.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[Jeremi]

My car is 29 years old, I record TV shows on a 15 year old VCR, I also have 40+ year old audio devices (a tape recorder and a radio). They all work quite well despite the fact that there are newer versions of these devices out.

Of course, none of the examples you mention are involved in an arms race against hackers and script kiddies who are constantly looking for new ways to remotely reprogram them to steal your credit card info, etc. Therefore, any flaws in those devices that don't bother you personally can be safely overlooked.

If your computer is in any way connected to the outside world, on the other hand, it's a good idea to be running recent software so that known security holes will (hopefully) be patched.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[blair1q]

"Support" for Microsoft products currently comprises making tedious searches in their "knowledge" base and reading their circular answers to questions only peripherally related to the problem you're actually having.

Shlashdotted

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, Slashdot. How I love your server-crushing efficiency...

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[grub]

My car is 29 years old, I record TV shows on a 15 year old VCR, I also have 40+ year old audio devices (a tape recorder and a radio).

And your lawnmower is how many years old?
/rimshot

I don't think it's nostalgia either

[improfane]

I've been brought up in the middle of this technology era and I honestly think that old stuff is better.

It's usually designed to last, it's not designed to break after warranty. We honestly don't have that any more. Short term profit has taken hold of every industry so that quality barely exists anymore. Of course it wouldn't surprise me if the companies that make things that last are not doing so well, as they wouldn't have a steady stream of customers.

I don't need or want High Definition and huge televisions. The reason you need HD is because you have a large TV) I've seen some large televisions and HD and thought it looked worse than it did on a small television.

This is why I'm going to be the only geek with a small television. I don't want it to be the focal point of my living room or my life. That's what whiskey on the bookshelf is for. With my rocking chair and bubble pipe.

I don't think it's nostalgia that old is better. I think it's genuinely is. Maybe not with Windows XP though.

Re:I don't think it's nostalgia either

[Mister Whirly]

Please tell me you take a horse and buggy to work as well. These new fangled "automobiles" are a passing fad that will fade away soon. And television? what do you need that for? My old Philco FM radio does just fine. And if I don't like what is on the radio, I have a library of wax cylinders to play on my phonograph.

Re:I don't think it's nostalgia either

[improfane]

I cycle to work on a penny farthing with a top hat adorning my head.

Re:I don't think it's nostalgia either

[Pentium100]

Old devices are generally simpler and easier to fix if something goes bad. Electrolytic capacitors are one example, but they are quite easy to replace and are cheap. The mechanical parts are designed with long therm in mind, even on a tape deck where output amplifier tube is used as bias oscillator when recording (thus saving a tube) the tape transport is quite well made and thick metal was used. Tubes go bad too, but they are easy to replace.

As for HDTV. I'll try to get a CRT HDTV, they were expensive in their time, so should be better built than modern stuff. If I can't get one - I'll get a SD CRT TV.

Re:I don't think it's nostalgia either

[Mister Whirly]

Excellent. Be sure to keep your handlebar mustache properly waxed.

Re:I don't think it's nostalgia either

[mlts]

A better analogy is to compare a Craftsman tool made 15-20 years ago to one made now. Even if the recently made one has the lifetime warranty, it just is not as well made as the older one. Pretty much most new hand tools are made to be "just good enough", unless you spend the cash for MAC or Snap-On.

Another example is an old FM radio for instance that was made in the 60s. The back has the complete circuit schematic on it, even though transistors were the mainstay back then. The materials, fit, finish, and craftsmanship was just outstanding.

Even recently, a friend of mine picked up an old AT tower case. It was on wheels (pretty much a two man lift), had space for plenty of fans, and it actually had serious locks on it. Not the little padlock loops, or the mini Ace locks either -- the case actually had multiple Medeco keyswitches and cam locks. One keyswitch allowed/disabled the reset button. Another would lock the case. Still another would lock the keyboard/mouse if the motherboard supported it. Finally key #4 would lock the panel that protects the floppy/CD-ROM drives. The case had not just a flimsy loop, but a fairly thick steel piece to attach a padlock and security chain.

You find that even though something made in the 60s and 70s is likely obsolete, it usually has a better fit and finish than something made these days.

Re:I don't think it's nostalgia either

[triffid_98]

I've been brought up in the middle of this technology era and I honestly think that old stuff is better.

It's usually designed to last, it's not designed to break after warranty. We honestly don't have that any more. Short term profit has taken hold of every industry so that quality barely exists anymore. Of course it wouldn't surprise me if the companies that make things that last are not doing so well, as they wouldn't have a steady stream of customers.

/AGREEx5

...but there's a slight confirmation bias involved. If it was crap it was scrapped a long time ago. Anything that still works after 30-50 years was built like a brick shit house.

Cars, Tools, Appliances, I have a lot of stuff dating back to the before-time, the long long ago.

Plastic wasn't considered a structural component and they're generally simple enough technologically that even if you do break them somehow you can usually mend what you have.

And no, my PC does not use punch cards and switches, thank you very much.

Re:I don't think it's nostalgia either

[kevinmenzel]

I'm all for old stuff, but I really don't think it applies to XP. I think it would be hard to prove that Vista and 7 were built worse than XP, or will last less long, or something of that nature. First of all, it's software, so it's not like any bit of code disintegrates over time or something, your operating system is never going to wear out per se (activation servers aside. But XP has activation, so that's kind of a moot point.) But XP does get less relevant over time. Especially once long term support ends, and there are no more security patches. Plus it's not like Windows 7 is actually just a change of face on XP, because there are differences, differences that maybe not everyone appreciates, but differences nonetheless. So many that it caused driver hell for Vista if you didn't do your research ahead of time, but you do have to question "Why did they do things differently for sound/video/printers/etc." and "Does any of what they did make sense?" Frankly I think a lot of what they did DOES make sense. And I mean, I really appreciate the way Windows works, and that it runs the programs I need it to run, so when I moved from XP I moved to Vista then 7, but it's not like there aren't alternatives - OSX is one I guess... though that generally would involve a new machine, or you could go BSD or Linux or whatever... and pretty much any modern OS will have features that are in fact actually better by some measurable standard when compared to XP. For instance, compare administrator accounts in XP to administrator accounts in OSX/Vista/Linux. The security model is better in all of those more modern examples. It's different between the three, but all three offer something better, a reason to change. Desktop composting - that's a reason to switch. Video drivers that don't crash the system when they bail - not a bad idea right? So I think it is an uninformed person that claims that nothing has improved since Windows XP. Windows XP may be faster on your current setup, but you can spend the money to buy new components that won't fail immediately, if you need to upgrade to switch to something different. And by the time XP support ends, you will have had, what 13-14 years to plan for such upgrades, finance the upgrades, and implement them. That's if you even need to upgrade to switch to something different - my 2003 laptop that shipped with XP is running Windows 7. And I wouldn't say it's particularly slower than XP even though it's running 512MB of RAM, and the processor is a Celeron 1.3GHz, and the hard drive runs at 4200RPM. I mean, sure, the screen is dead, and the power connection is finicky, so I do have a newer laptop, but hooked up to an external display, it runs Windows 7 pretty darned fine. It can't do everything that 7 is capable of, but it can do more than XP is capable of (for instance, UAC - no I don't turn off UAC, never did even during the Vista betas.) So yeah, not entirely convinced that Windows 7 is a product of "short term profit thinking".

Re:I don't think it's nostalgia either

[Pentium100]

I did not say that Windows 7 is no improvement over XP. However, XP is good enough for me. Yes, if I was building a PC today (or built it when 7 became available) I would probably be using 7 already, however, when I was building my current PC, I had basically two options for an OS - XP or Vista. I chose XP. Now, reinstalling Windows is such a PITA that I won't do it unless this system screws up (and my backup tape goes bad at the same time). My computer would most likely be able to run 7 (I would disable Aero just because I do not like it and would try to make the UI appear more like XP/2000 with tools like ClassicShell)
.
An analogy: let's say I record stuff from radio and have a mono tape deck. However, I record AM, so the source is mono. Now, there is a stereo tape deck available, but until I need to record in stereo my tape deck is still good enough (even though the new tape deck would be better). Why should I spend money on the new deck?

Re:I don't think it's nostalgia either

[tehcyder]

Please take a moment to read up on the use of P or BR tags. Thanks.

It's not a licensing issue, BUT...

[Anonymous Coward]

...a DRM (DCMA) issue.

Accoring to EULA, you are allowed to run as many copies on a single computer as you want. The "single computer" may or may not be running VMs in which copies of XP may be installed. Again, this is according to the EULA.

BUT... and here's the kicker, XP requires activation within 30 days. And you can only activate "few" *) copies. And it's a DCMA violation to even try to circumvent the DRM.

So, in practice, you're not allowed to install "many" copies of XP.

*) Number of allowed activation are different for different editions and different SKUs.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[The123king]

I run BeOS. I'm pretty sure most hackers and script kiddies are not going to bother trying to hack my 10 year old OS :)

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[dirtyhippie]

Okay, I'll bite. Which 20 year old unpatched kernel are you running? Or are you just talking about linux?

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[Pentium100]

It can be protected by other means. Firewall will stop unwanted incoming connection (so Windows XP no SP won't get pwned by Blaster), noscript can help with malicious scripts. AV will help with downloaded files. And so on.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[just_another_sean]

And your lawnmower is how many years old?

My guess is - brand spanking new!

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[nschubach]

unpatched

If that's the requirement, then XP wouldn't be considered 10 years old either. We can't just up and change requirements to suit our needs here. It's disingenuous to call XP 10 years old if there was just a patch released for it and not consider Linux 20 years old because it was patched recently.

Windows RG is still better!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.deanliou.com/WinRG/

Re:Windows RG is still better!!!

[hansraj]

Hilarious!

How deep can it go?

[mmmmbeer]

So has anyone tried opening XP in a browser in XP in a browser in XP... etc? How many levels can people get it to go?

Re:How deep can it go?

[davidbrit2]

It's like Matryoshka dolls, but each one has more devastating genetic deformities than its container. The one in the middle looks like the love child of the California Raisins and ET.

Re:How deep can it go?

[AragornSonOfArathorn]

God, I wish I had mod points. +11

Re:How deep can it go?

[AragornSonOfArathorn]

It's like Matryoshka dolls, but each one has more devastating genetic deformities than its container. The one in the middle looks like the love child of the California Raisins and ET.

The one deepest inside looks like Kuato. "Open your browser... Open your BROOOOOWSER"

Re:How deep can it go?

[lulalala]

Or like Inception: It will be really hard to go to the 3rd layer to do something, as one click takes months to respond.

Re:How deep can it go?

[Bing Tsher E]

as one click takes months to respond.

Back when Excel first came out (Excel for Windows 2 which installed it's own runtime version of Windows on your DOS machine) I FORCED it to install on a PC-XT clone. I say 'forced' because the copy I had was on 1.2M 5-1/4" disk and I crammed those onto a bunch of 5-1/4" 360k disks because it was an XT clone I was installing it on. It was really, really slow.

Yo dawg...

[Anonymous Coward]

I heard you like exploits.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[nschubach]

I'm more surprised that someone actually thought about calling Microsoft for support...

Three words

[Ukab the Great]

Geek Tractor Pull.

GPL?

[Anonymous Coward]

If this is a continuation of the JPC project from Oxford University and released under the GPL, surely the source for this should be readily available.

From the page:
JPC2 is the latest version of JPC project which has been substantially updated to be able to run Windows XP and Ubuntu Linux, both in original unmodified from.

Links to http://jpc.sourceforge.net/

Re:GPL?

[c0lo]

Unless the authors of JPC2 are the same as the ones for JPC (or they have acceptance from all contributors to release it under a different license).

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[isama]

I have no lawnmower! now get out of my lawn!

/.ed anyway

[Bryan Bytehead]

All I'm loading right now is the favicon.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[wbo]

"Support" for Microsoft products currently comprises making tedious searches in their "knowledge" base and reading their circular answers to questions only peripherally related to the problem you're actually having.

Really? I have also found the knowledge base to contain quite a bit of good information once you learn how things are organized. (I agree that the organization is not very intuitive at first but there is more information there than a casual search may reveal at first.)

I have also contacted Microsoft Support at least 3 times in the past year and I have always found them to be very knowledgeable and quite helpful.

Yes, there is a fee required to contact support but they almost always refund the fee if the problem was not caused by user error and they will continue working with you on the problem until you agree that it has been resolved.

I had one particularly puzzling problem that turned out to be a bug in IIS. The support ticket ended up being escalated to someone on the IIS development team and they built a custom hotfix to fix the issue. The problem was resolved within 2 days and they refunded the support fee automatically.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[realityimpaired]

Extending the logic further, Windows 7 is actually 18 years old. It's based on NT, after all, and the first version of NT (3.1) was released in 1993.

But it isn't 18 years old. Just as the Linux system I'm typing this on isn't 20 years old. I am running a *much* more recent version of the kernel, and there have been some major revisions of key system components since then. The x.org I'm running is less than a year old, the e17 desktop environment is only a couple of weeks old. Where do you draw the line?

I would venture that XP is *three* years old, because SP3 was released in 2008. SP3 introduced enough major changes in the system that it could be considered a different operating system, just like SP2 and SP1 before it. Same UI and (mostly) backwards compatible, but with some very different workings under the hood.

Re:cab fair..

[Anonymous Coward]

as opposed to a plain black car?

Can this really be called running in a browser?

[MikeUW]

If this requires a Java applet to run, then isn't the virtual PC essentially running in the Java runtime environment? Yeah, suppose you can do some stuff to make the browser interact with the VM and vice versa...but I don't think this really demonstrates anything special, other than demonstrating the ability to virtualize a WinXP machine in Java.

Of course, I haven't read the article...

This is different how?

[bullok]

For years, MS has exposed control of the OS through the browser. This just formalizes the arrangement. ;P

Re:NSFW? Who cares what that filter says

[Anonymous Coward]

Shows again how worthless those web filters really are. I didn't have patience for the XP vm to load but I went
visited the page and had a Doom running in my browser (it was like it must be running it on a c64) and a
linux vm that was really really slow as hell.

So what happened is whoever put that web-filter out there just naively fed everything they could
get their hands on in their db probably not even with looking at it much. The ip we're talking here may have
been in use at one time around 2001 hosting a mp3 site who knows, WHO CARES.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[Bing Tsher E]

I have a vintage 1958 Lawnboy, actually. I've used it occasionally to cut grass, but.... the owner's manual alone sells for about $50 on eBay.

Windows RG (Really Good)

[phantomfive]

It's been done before.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[kevinmenzel]

No, because it is, specifically, better. There are improvements in Windows 7 over Windows XP. It's not hard to find out about them. Hell, there are improvements in OSX over XP, and Linux over XP, and BSD over XP...

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[petman]

Age has nothing to do with it. WinXP's going to be 10 next year. Are the "hackers and script kiddies" going to stop hacking it then? I don't think so.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[Pentium100]

And none of them are worth the pain of installing all of the programs I use and configuring all the little settings all over again, basically guaranteeing that the computer won't work properly for a long time (I use some programs very rarely, so I may forget they exist, so when I actually need it, I'll have to hunt down the installer first.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[The123king]

No, but it will have support dropped in 2014, meaning that hackers and script kiddies will target it even more ;)

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[crhylove]

I agree with you. To an extent. However, Linux Mint is FREE and much better than XP or Windows 7, or Vista, or Mac OS, or what have you. The newest one is arguably the best one, too.

I do certainly concur on some of your other points though. I have a 1964 Dodge Dart. Best car ever made. Dead simple to diagnose and fix on the rare occasion that there's a problem, and I've heard stories of people making it another 50 miles WITH NO OIL.

Also, a home media center is a lot better than most VCRs.

Recursivity

[macraig]

So can I run Java in my virtual XP and... WHOA! Infinite mirrors trick!

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[tehcyder]

Support will cease from Microsoft in April of 2014. What's the point of running a 10+ year old OS?

So you can run fifteen year old software?

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[tehcyder]

No, because it is, specifically, better. There are improvements in Windows 7 over Windows XP. It's not hard to find out about them. Hell, there are improvements in OSX over XP, and Linux over XP, and BSD over XP...

Just because A is better than B doesn't mean you should throw away B and buy A.

If there is some killer new feature in Windows 7 that you cannot live without any longer, fine, but for most people as long as their computer can run a web browser and office-type software and can play music/games and watch videos, there is no need to change.
At some point, Direct X won't be upgraded any more for XP, and that alone will finish it off for anyone who wants to run new software.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[tehcyder]

I agree with you. To an extent. However, Linux Mint is FREE and much better than XP or Windows 7, or Vista, or Mac OS, or what have you. The newest one is arguably the best one, too.

But even if Linux Mint ran all his existing software straight out of the box, he'd still have to reinstall and tweak a lot of stuff, and as his current setup works fine for him, that's just a waste of time.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[Pentium100]

Also, a home media center is a lot better than most VCRs.

Depends. When I tried to use a PC for recording TV shows, the reliability sucked (it would record without audio or without video or it was out of sync or the PC crashed during recording etc), also I had to store all the files somewhere, which meant a lot of hard drives or a lot of DVD-Rs. Now when I record to VHS it is reliable most of the time (there are occasional glitches, but they are far less common than on a PC), I can edit out commercials by using another VCR (or, if I can, I edit them out during the first recording) and the resulting tape can be played on any VCR.

Also, even if Linux Mint ran all of my software (including all games) it would still most likely not worth the pain of reinstalling.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[crhylove]

I play tons of games in Mint. I play the Wii emulator, and Mario Kart Wii specifically. You'd have to upgrade your hardware to run that though. :) Urban Terror works better in Linux than it does in Windows.

I'm not saying there's no place for XP. If you have to have Windows, I'd say XP is still the best option. Much faster/lighter than 7 in my experience. Also easier to use, faster to boot..... etc..

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[crhylove]

Waste of time maybe, but this is Slashdot. I kind of assume everybody reformats their machine once a week out of principle. For me, I enjoy huge benefits from using Linux Mint. I have a Wiimote act as a mouse (Wiican), and compiz with desktop rotate enabled controlled by a wiimote is awesome, and blows people away when they see it. Also I run the Wii emulator Dolphin, which runs great in Mint. Urban Terror, Libre Office, Firefox, Ardour...... Ardour alone makes installing Linux Mint worth it.

Re:Why? Support soon to cease.

[kevinmenzel]

DirectX hasn't been officially upgraded for XP for... ages? I mean, DirectX 10 is officially Vista only (as artificial a constraint as that might be), and DirectX 11 is 7 only I think? So that's probably a pretty bad example to pick.