Terror Attack On Norwegian Government

techtech sends this quote from the BBC: "A large bomb blast has hit near government headquarters in the Norwegian capital Oslo, killing at least one person. The offices of Norwegian Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg were damaged extensively — a government spokeswoman said he was safe. Police said a number of people were injured in the city center explosion. No-one has said they were behind the attack, which witnesses said could be heard across the capital."

Comments

The result of an old threat

[madhatter256]

According to ABC news:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/oslo-explosion-blast-result-massive-vehicle-bomb-sources/story?id=14134197

Earlier this month, a Norwegian prosecutor filed terrorism charges against an Iraqi-born cleric who had allegedly threatened the lives of Norwegian politicians. Mullah Krekar, the founder of the Kurdish Islamist group Ansar al-Islam, said in a news conference in 2010 that if he was deported from Norway he would be killed and, therefore, Norwegian politicians deserved the same fate, according to an AP report. The Norwegian government had considered deporting Krekar because he was seen as a national security threat.

Re:The result of an old threat

[Anonymous Coward]

This is not the result. This is part 1. Part 2 depends on the action of the government and people. You see, in all cases of what terrorism has done itself was to kill a few people. This only affected a reasonable tiny segment of the population. More are affected by drunks on the road every year.

The important part of terrorism is the part 2 - the so called reaction by the people and the government. They could either,

  1. treat this as a criminal act and hold the responsible parties to account, or

  2. undermine their own freedoms in their own fear of the "enemy", stop trusting one another and view anyone that appears different as the "enemy". This is the aim of the terrorist, not the initial damage.

So far, the terrorist are quite a ways ahead, if you ask me. A simple bomb here, a bomb there. A handful of people die. People demand action. And soon enough they look suspicious at any minority, become radicals themselves and destroy their own societies simply out of fear. The victims becomes the terrorists themselves. And the cycle continues until we end up with Afghanistan style society.

Re:The result of an old threat

[toriver]

Unrelated, he has been saying the same things for years. His terrorist group is in the Kurd areas (Turkey/Iraq/Iran), far away from Norway. The only reason he is still here is that we do not extradite people to countries where they risk the death penalty, and we haven't received binding enough guarantees from either the Iraqi nor the Kurd governments (Northern Iraq still being a somewhat self-regulated Kurdish province).

Re:The result of an old threat

[ArcherB]

Its past the time for the US and others to remove all of their troops from the middle east and other trouble spots and let them sort their own problems out and kill each other in peace.

Hey! That's is exactly what we did in Afghanistan. How did that work out?

Re:The result of an old threat

[Hognoxious]

The only reason he is still here is that we do not extradite people to countries where they risk the death penalty

Perhaps if you did then the criminals who flee to your country would have an incentive to be on their best behaviour while they're there.

Re:The result of an old threat

[elrous0]

Its past the time for the US and others to remove all of their troops from the middle east and other trouble spots and let them sort their own problems

That would work fine if the radical elements of Islam were content to stay where they're at. But the various radical Islamist movements in the last few decades have shown a great deal of ambition at taking over and radicalizing more and more countries (not just in the middle east, but asia and africa as well). Those ambitions were bound to clash with the west eventually.

The problem with the west is that we really don't know how to fight global wars anymore and aren't really comfortable facing certain kinds of problems. WWII was a long time ago, and we just don't seem to have the stones anymore to take on a large scale threat. We're also too politically-correct to acknowledge some hard realities about the nature of this conflict. No one wants to be the guy to admit that radical Islamists aren't just some tiny minority movement. In large swaths of the Muslim world, they are a dominant force (and a real threat). The modern west really likes to respect religion, and we have made that our dominant model (for the most part) for a some time now. The thought of anything resembling a holy war makes the western world VERY uncomfortable. Unfortunately, a large portion of the Muslim world doesn't share that tolerant attitude.

Not saying that had anything to do with this particular attack. For all we know, this attack could have come from some local Norwegian political terrorists. And I'm hesitant to jump to any conclusions until more information is known.

Re:The result of an old threat

[MightyMartian]

I'm confused. Why was the guy ever allowed into Norway to begin with?

Re:The result of an old threat

[SwedishPenguin]

It looks like the "policeman" who gunned down dozens of youths at the Social Democratic youth camp was also seen in central Oslo moments before the explosions, and witness reports state that he spoke a dialect of Norwegian coming from the eastern part of the country. It sounds to more more like the work of a right-wing extremist than islamist extremists. This could be Norway's "Timothy McVeigh"..

Re:The result of an old threat

[beowulfcluster]

According to Europol, only 3 of the 249 confirmed terrorist acts in Europe last year had islamic connections, so maybe we shouldn't be so quick to jump to conclusions, eh?

Re:The result of an old threat

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

This is a right-wing/Mossad operation against Norway. The shooter at the AUF camp was a blonde European. Norway is supporting full recognition as a state by the UN.

On 10.07.2002, Mrs. Eva Kristin Hansen, the leader of the Norwegian Labor Party Youth Movement (AUF), called upon the Attorney General of Norway to investigate whether "Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and other Israeli leaders can be put on trial for crimes they committed" (http://norskisraelsenter.no/engl/auf-sharon-vg-engl.htm). Kristin explained that this AUF demand for an indictment comes in light of "...killing of ambulance personnel, occasional destruction of civil targets and the illegal execution of civilians".

Less than a day after this AUF petition was sent to the court, Norwegian former Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg (Labor) spoke before the AUF and attacked Israel. NIS notes that it was not so long ago - 20.4.2002 -, that Stoltenberg gave a speech attacking Israel, while Nazi Swastikas and other horrible anti-Jewish banners were held up in front of the Norwegian parliament (http://norskisraelsenter.no/engl/ap-stoltenberg-eng.htm). Such symbols are otherwise forbidden for use in demonstrations organized by Neo-Nazis.

NIS is aware of the important position that the AUF has in the political life of Norway, particularly concerning the Norwegian Labor Party. AUF has produced many important leaders of the Labor Party. Naturally, their opinions influence their environment and Norway.

As young AUF members, future central Norwegian Labor Party leaders, called in 1971 for the destruction of Israel: "The qualification for lasting peace must be that Israel cease to exist as a Jewish state". (As quoted by Haakon Lie, former Secretary General of the Norwegian Labor Party, in his book: Slik Jeg Ser Det - As I See It - part II, p. 132.)

Re:The result of an old threat

[IrquiM]

This is the guy:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002651290254

Religious views: Christian
'nuf said! - It's the Norwegian counter part of Timothy McWeigh. Nothing to do with Al Queda or any other Arab connection - more similarities with the Norwegian "Tea-Party"-look-a-likes.

Re:The result of an old threat

[cusco]

Organizational support network? Give me a break. That's called Hotmail/Gmail/Yahoo, CitiBank/BOA/CreditSuisse, VISA/Mastercard and Skype. If the terriers need $5000 to buy ingredients for ANFO they'll hit their cash machine for ten days straight and they're set. If they want to coordinate a date for an attack they'll send a .jpg of a calendar with a day circled. This stuff ain't rocket surgery any more. The days of cashiers checks and dead drops are long gone.

And yes, a "few dozen random, organized people" is a bit of an exaggeration. A dozen people scattered around the country armed with second hand deer rifles could take down the entire US power grid. Half a dozen with rented/stolen backhoes could shut down natural gas delivery to New England some February. A force no larger than 20 could take control of pretty much any US nuclear power plant.

No, a non-governmental force, terrorist or mercenary, should not be sufficient to cause a military reaction against another country. Or do you think that the actions of a non-representative force, such as Blackwater or Ansar al-Islam, is reason enough for air strikes?

Re:The result of an old threat

[cusco]

"It's not like the U.S. could go to the Taliban government after 9-11 and say "We have a warrant for these members of Al-Quaida, please extradite them to us" and get anything but laughter in response."

Actually the laughter went the other way. After the attacks the Taliban offered to hand over Binladdin **THREE TIMES** to a neutral country if the US would provide any evidence of his connection. Instead Shrub's administration essentially said, "We don't need no stinkin' evidence, give him to us because we say so." Whether the Taliban would have been able to deliver or not is something else entirely.

The Italian government has been asking the US for the extradition of several individuals known to have carried out the kidnapping of people in Italy, which IIRC resulted in deaths. Unfortunately for the Italians and for justice in general the kidnappers worked for the CIA so it's not going to happen. Should the Italians carry out an air strike on Langley?

Update from local news (NRK)

[o_source]

So far there is confirmed 2 dead and 15 injured by NRK news. It is confirmed that it was a car bomb.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[zacs]

While there tends to be a nerd slant, I think the general lean is towards stories that matter to people. There are numerous examples of historical stories that didn't have a tech lean where there were still extremely interesting and informative discussions that followed.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[CRCulver]

It's funny how nowadays topical information (news for nerds) comes to Slashdot days after other internet news channels, while off-topic posts like this hit the front page only a couple of hours after the event.

Re:Not clear, yet, that it's terrorism.

[The Wannabe King]

No. Gas usage is very uncommon in Norway. We just sell it and use electricity ourselves. The police has confirmed it is a bomb. At least two people are killed.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Palpatine_li]

Because this is in Norway? I thought only Finnish news get a blank pass for nerd news.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ninjas, pirates, cowboys, cyborgs, and vikings are /.'s top demographic categories.

Also shootings.

[FinchWorld]

Several people shot at UtÃya according to Dagbladet.no

Re:Also shootings.

[jandrese]

He was finally captured a few minutes ago. Apparently he looked Nordic, so this adds some credence to the "home grown right wing extremists" theory. So far there appear to be 5 dead in the shootings, but everybody is still in hiding (except for the ones that swam over to the mainland) so the bodycount has not been confirmed.

I'm impressed they were able to capture him alive. Frequently with gunmen like this they go out the Suicide by Cop way.

Maybe not clear enough

[techtech]

But an attack like this is big deal in Norway, I live nearby, and the blast has blasted the window in almost 1 km radius, check these images. This is the main government building in Norway: http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/norge/1.7722919

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Heed00]

The bomb was a phaser set to overload -- happy now?

More pictures

[techtech]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-14254095

This is why it's on /.

[plsenjy]

Because it is much more reliable to get up-to-date news sources of the event from Norwegian nerds keeping up with international nerd zeitgeist than it is from America's idiot news media.

Re:Looks like

[mikael_j]

Not necessarily, if the shooting at the social democrat youth camp just now (by a fake police officer) is related then I'm betting on local nazi crackpots...

Should be under politics

[Shivetya]

if anywhere.

Then again, terrorism does affect nerds. I know many love to ignore it, but it is crap like this which ends up getting the laws passed that we do discuss and do not like.

So, I can see a connection. If we don't closely examine one of the source causes how are we ever to stop the erosion of our rights? What is it going to take to bring these people in a modern society where they coexist with others on equal terms, or at least on terms which don't make people look over their shoulder every time they pass or have fear of cars parked where the should not be?

Re:This Is Not News For Nerds

[quantaman]

This is news for everyone.

Nerds are just a subset.

I work there

[Anonymous Coward]

I work stright across the street just from the prime ministers office and was on my way there when the bomb went off and came there not many minutes later. Because of vacation, I think most of the buildings were empty. Almost every shop in down town Oslo has or is shutting down. The public transportation is working more or less as normal, but there are a lot of people down there filming with their phones and calling relatives.

A lot of windows are broken and I saw one probably 400+ meters away blown out. People are very calm and just interested in more information.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14254705

Re:Looks like

[MobileTatsu-NJG]

Extremists have done it again.

FTFY.

Re:Looks like

[mikael_j]

The BBC article? Yes, but I've also been following Norwegian and Swedish news and who did this has yet to be confirmed, what has been confirmed though is that there has also been a shooting at a social democrat youth camp, and for some reason the nordic neo-nazis hate social democrats which is why I pointed out that if these events were related then this makes it a lot more likely that this is a domestic terrorism incident and not islamic terrorists.

Our thoughts and prayers go out to Norway

[Anonymous Coward]

This should never have happened in a saner world.

Re:Looks like

[h4rr4r]

LUKE 19:27
"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them - bring them here and kill them in front of me."

Re:And this is on /. why?

[greap]

I thought this was stuff for nerds.

Breaking news: Steve Jobs bombs Oslo after finding out Apple slipped 31% YoY in the tablet market.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Ihmhi]

Although I feel you're generally right on this, I think it is very important. There's been more than a few rather important news stories on here that just don't show up on the American telly. A British friend of mine had wagered that there wouldn't be anything about the recent News of the World scandal in America on television, and I agreed that he was probably right. Imagine my surprise when ABC leads with that story at their 6 o'clock news.

I often have to resort to the BBC for seeing what's going on in the world because American news tends to be largely self-centered. Even though it may not technically be "News for Nerds", I think it's rather important. I'd much prefer hearing about something like this rather than a slashvertisement for Apple or Bitcoin.

Very early speculation

[Anonymous Coward]

The attack was on a government office, so it's still too early to say whether it was an act of terrorism or war.

Al Qaeda and the organizations allied to it in "the Resistance" are the most obvious suspects, being that they are at war with everyone else in the world and they have the talent and desire to do it.

The attack could be in response to the recent filing of charges against Mullah Krekar, leader of Ansar al-Islam which was one of the first groups to rename itself to "al-Qaeda in Iraq" after the US invaded.

The motivation could also be the Jyllands-Posten cartoons that were published in a Denmark newspaper. The Muslim Brotherhood and Hizbut Tahrir encouraged attacks on Norwegian embassies after the Norwegian tabloid Dagbladet republished the cartoons.

Norway has been active in the bombing of Libya. The attack may have come in retaliation from the Libyan government, which has pledged to strike back at its attackers any way it could, or it may have come from unaffiliated right-wing Muslims who see the attack on Libya as kaffir invading the ummah.

It could be someone else. Remember that the Oklahoma City bombing was a couple of white ultra-Christians. Everyone thought it was Hezbollah at first. The attack could have come from Jews who are pissed off about European spy agencies funding the the NIF, B'tselem, Peace Now, Human Rights Watch, and all the lies they tell about Israel. It could have been a nut from an opposing political party or a farmer with a grievance about a change in subsidies and the knowledge to make a fertilizer bomb. The only thing we truly know is that we don't know yet, so wait a day or two for the investigators to do their jobs.

Here's Reuters's speculation.

Captcha: compute. If anyone was complaining that this was not news for nerds, it is now.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Kjella]

Large (some estimate 100kg of explosives) bombs against the headquarters of western governments far removed from any local conflict are rather rare. This is the equivalent of someone blowing up the White House or Downing Street in the UK. It might not reach quite up to the UK subway bombing or the Madrid train bombing but this was way more than one man with a suicide vest.

Troll Attack

[S77IM]

The terrorist story is a cover-up.

What really happened, is a young Jutnar (a species of large mountain troll) wandered into Oslo through the sewer system. It was eventually destroyed near the capital building when courageous members of the TSS removed a manhole cover above the troll. Sadly, the dying troll exploded in a massive burst destroying several city blocks.

No one knows jack right now

[DesScorp]

...why I pointed out that if these events were related then this makes it a lot more likely that this is a domestic terrorism incident and not islamic terrorists.

It looks like the "oil and gas" ministry was bombed. The Prime Minister was apparently targeted too. This could be anyone from Al Qaeda to some Earth First type of group. All the speculation is useless until someone actually comes up with some evidence and some suspects, or until there's a credible claim of credit for the attacks.

Re:Looks like

[Attila Dimedici]

You do know that you are taking that completely out of context, right? It is words that were put into the mouth of a character in a parable Jesus told. In the context of the parable, the most likely interpretation is that it represents God speaking on the Day of Judgement, which is at some indefinite time in the future.

Re:Looks like

[operagost]

"Ninety percent of the Bible quotations you read on the internet are either incorrect or totally taken out of context." - Martin Luther

Re:Looks like

[ThurstonMoore]

Nordic neo-nazis now that sounds like a surly bunch.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[neoform]

"News for nerds", does a terrorist in a European capital count as being of interest to nerds? I think it does.

so a million people dying in east africa

[decora]

of starvation is not on?

Re:so a million people dying in east africa

[uvajed_ekil]

Submit that story, and get over yourself, please. Why does coverage of any event have to be taken as a slight to the seriousness of some other negative event? I read most every story /. covers, and this one belonged here. I don't think the original poster claimed the Oslo bombing was the worst, most serious event in the history of the world, nor should it need to be to get attention. Nothing is stopping you from contributing something else.

I think people make too much of this kind of thing

[Thud457]

Except for some minor inconvenience the rare occasions I can afford to fly somewhere, destroying our economy, and having to tolerate listening to whiny bed-wetters on Fox, terrorism has had little impact on my life.

Re:Looks like

[Duradin]

That statement is why the Lutheran Vatican keeps his prophecies locked away.

Foreign terrorism?

[Miktor]

I think not. According to NRK, the man shooting at Utøya, was a tall Norwegian looking blonde. http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=no&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fnyheter%2Fnorge%2F1.7723132

Terrible idea, would be used against you

[SuperKendall]

But also issue a warning saying any support of an extraterritorial terrorist attack originating from within these areas, whether it be financial, moral, or man-power will guarantee the immediate destruction of a randomly selected city or geographical location without the slightest regard for damage or casualties

This killing of random civilians ON PURPOSE is far more evil to my mind than the situation we have now, where we are primarily fighting real enemy fighters, and trying to help the population of various areas com into a modern era.

I can tell you what would happen right now if your proposal were implemented - there would be a terrorist attack every week, announcing the country of origin. Then the city would be bombed, and the cameras would move in to document the suffering of all the women and children who had been placed in the city the week before by the Taliban just so they could die for the camera. It is not a good idea to do anything which so easily gives them a media tool they can (rightfully) hit you over the head with.

Re:Looks like

[Attila Dimedici]

1. Are you saying that the Koran does not command the killing of "infidels"? That it is merely passages taken out of context?
2. There are more theologians who have interpreted Jesus' teachings as calling for nonviolence then there are theologians who have interpreted Jesus' teachings as calling for the slaughter of nonbelievers. I am quite confident that the same cannot be said of the teachings of Mohammed (although I would be pleasantly surprised to discover that I am mistaken).

Re:It's not "terror"

[blair1q]

A car bomb in the street out front of an office is a terribly inefficient way to murder someone, if at least one of your goals isn't to terrorize anyone else.

A car bomb is also a classic terrorist tool.

By the principle of parsimony, it's reasonable to assume that this was a terrorist act unless extraordinary evidence to the contrary is presented.

It's time to quit calling everything "terror".

It's time to quit calling everything that isn't terrifying "terror." Car bombs parked out front of government offices will probably never be not terrifying. So your complaint is poorly aimed.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[socz]

While I was abroad, I found it very interesting that back in the U.S., I didn't hear about U.S. Solders being killed in "The Wars." But abroad I heard about it all the time on the news. Although I knew that the media in the U.S. is fairly "censored" (not comparable to other countries such as N. Korea or China), it was amazing how much they were really keeping from us (regarding the war).

More recently, the story about the ATF sending weapons to Latin America - though it is still a "developing story," trying to find images of the heavy weapons confiscated has seemed difficult to obtain! But on the Spanish speaking news mediums, they have plenty of footage of just this! Why don't we get to see the same thing? We get shown the "new rifles sold in mass quantities by legit stores" but not the heavy anti armor and vehicle mounted weapons that you just can not buy from stores.

So while this at a glance might not seem as a story for nerds, it is appreciated by nerds... soon enough we'll learn about the specific bomb type and mechanism that was used and we'll discuss many things about that. But don't disregard it just because on the front page news it's "only a human tragedy/act of terrorism."

Re:Looks like

[snspdaarf]

Nordic neo-nazis now that sounds like a surly bunch.

Show me what's in your wallet, motherfucker!

Re:And this is on /. why?

[Man Eating Duck]

While granted terror attacks in Norway are probably pretty rare

Actually, nothing like this has happened in Norway since WWII, and AFAIK no known terror attacks whatsoever has been perpetrated on Norwegian soil in modern times. That might be the reason it's made the news worldwide, I'm still not sure why this is on Slashdot.

On a side note I work at the University of Oslo, I heard the blast clearly from my office (believed it was thunder at the time). An hour prior to the explosion I suggested to colleagues leaving early and having a beer at this pub, now I'm happy they declined... While I'm very conscious that this shall not influence my everyday life in any way in the future, it *is* a strong reminder that even our peaceful country is vulnerable.

Re:And this is on /. why?

[oursland]

As the definition of "nerd" is quite nebulous, your argument for limited scope postings based on your restrictive definition of "nerd" could be applied to every article posted on Slashdot.

- As a nerd of the biologist variety, stories about software product/provider X are of no interest to me and shouldn't be considered "News for Nerds."

- As a nerd of the computer variety, stories about breakthrough in medicine are of no interest to me and shouldn't be considered "News for Nerds."

- As a nerd of the factual scientist variety, stories about science fiction are of no interest to me and shouldn't be considered "News for Nerds."

- As a nerd of the political science variety, stories of terrorist attacks are of interest to me and should be considered "News for Nerds."

I could go on, but the point is clear. You're outrage (or whatever you want to call it) is misplaced due to a false assumption of the definition of "nerd."

Re:Looks like

[Estanislao Mart�nez]

1. Are you saying that the Koran does not command the killing of "infidels"? That it is merely passages taken out of context?

Well, duh. I'm not a Muslim, and I know that much. The Koran has a lot of passages about fighting wars with enemies of Islam, who were a combination of pagans, Christians and Jews. However, it also has passages about treating Christians and Jews fairly and allowing them practice their religions, and passages stating that they can achieve salvation (or whatever the Islamic equivalent, not sure here). And more generally, it has passages about not picking fights with people who don't pick fights with you.

So, well, the straightforward conclusion here is that the Koran says a lot of different things about the relationship between Muslims and non-Muslims, and that the context in which each of those things is said needs to be weighed to see which of them best match any given situation. As, well, every single damn book ever written to guide human behavior.

PS: Muslims do not generally consider Christians and Jews to be "infidels." Rather, they consider them to be people who believe in the same god as Muslims, received the same teachings that Mohammed did, but then lost or distorted them. You will of course find plenty of counterexamples to this rule—"Christian = infidel" is an Islamist terrorist theme—but it's by no means a majority opinion. So I'm not interested in responses that document Muslims who have labeled Christians as "infidels"—I know they exist, and I know it's a minority opinion.

PPS: The fact the the Koran periodically has nice things to say about non-Muslims doesn't mean that all Muslims in general will have a good opinion of Christians and Jews; I'm not interested in responses that document cases of Muslims saying bad things about non-Muslims, mistreating them or showing prejudices toward them. In fact, the Koran's nicer statements about non-Muslims often seem like attempts to correct early Muslims' pre-existing prejudices and ill will against them. Take, for example, the Koran's statement that the food of the Peoples of the Book (Christians and Jews) is OK for Muslims to eat. Why would such a rule need to be stated? Well, some early Muslims must have seen some forms of physical contact with Christians as taboo. Similar comments apply where it says that you should not fight or kill non-Muslims who haven't tried to do the same to you: "Don't kill Christians and Jews" must have been a teaching that needed to be taught in Mohammed's time as much as in ours. Religion exists in a harsh, often brutal world of people who adopt it more as a tribal identity than as a moral guide.

Adjustment:

[techtech]

Conservative, right-wing, going to extreme extents. Thoughts documented of the person (in Norwegian): http://www.document.no/anders-behring-breivik/

Re:Bloody Vikings

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Haggis is delightful. Even the passable stuff in a tin.