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DHS Creating Database of Secret Watchlists
schwit1 writes "Homeland Security plans to operate a massive new database of names, photos, birthdays and biometrics called Watchlist Service, duplicated from the FBI's Terrorist Screening Database, which has proven not to be accurate many times in the past. DHS wants to exempt the Watchlist Service from Privacy Act provisions, meaning you will never know if you are wrongfully listed. Privacy groups worried about inaccurate info and mission creep have filed a protest, arguing the Privacy Act says DHS must notify subject of government surveillance. DHS has admitted that it 'does not control the accuracy of the information in system of records' and that 'individuals do not have an opportunity to decline to provide information.' Additionally, the DHS Watchlist Service attempts to circumvent privacy protections established by the Privacy Act. Who's watching the watchers?"
I'll need to tell them I'm not the one on their watchlist, considering I'm not an American.
... wait, what?
Because there sure aren't any of these kinds of databases around that nobody knows about or anything. I honestly think I'd be disappointed in the government for not already having something that can do this that the general public doesn't know about.
There's a reason there is no "Disagree" mod...
We'll probably eventually find out who's on it when all our personal info ends up leaked on a torrent somewhere.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I'm creating a watchlist of databases of watchlists!
Take That DHS!
Karma: Excellent. 15 moderator points expire sometime.
DHS has failed to make the country safer; if anything it made it easier for government to abuse the citizens.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
At least the DHS is finally doing something remotely related to terrorism, instead of playing enforcer for the RIAA. The downside to this is that they're doing something related to terrorism again.
Funny may not give karma, but +5 Informative never made anyone snort coffee out their nose.
While I don't like the Terrorist Screening Database operated by the FBI, this story is off the mark by making it sound like DHS is setting up a new list; which they are not. They are looking to improving how they get the information from the TSD. Read the abstract here:
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/privacy/privacy_pia_dhs_wls.pdf
Because DHS has so much time and money to spend on other projects. Otherwise, they're a massively over-funded, bloated bureaucracy sticking their nose into places it doesn't belong.
It's one or the other.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
What is this ?? What in the world will we ever do now ?? How can we go on ??
Which will the Republicans support, and which will they oppose? What about Democrats?
Results don't matter, only attitudes.
But they won't get rid of either, it's a good scapegoat for not fixing problems.
See, they don't want that.
And thank God for you guys, really, you're doing a great job! Without you these big government types would run roughshod over our civil rights! Keep submitting stuff like this!
Get these name on the watchlist ASAP.. John Smith, James Smith, Michael Smith, Robert Smith, John Johnson, James Johnson, Michael Johnson, Robert Johnson, John Williams, James Williams, Robert Williams, Michael Williams... surely one of those guys must be a bad guy, given the prevalence of the names... better safe than sorry!
There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
If the goal is to deter terrorists then they ought to publish the lists far and wide - if a some bad guy knows he's on the list then (a) he won't bother trying anything and (b) no other terrorists will go anywhere near the guy, thus reducing their ability to organise.
Unless there is an actual active investigation in process that would be jeopardised, keeping the list a secret is just silly - it's a list of people so dangerous they can't be allowed on an airplane or do other things normal people do but too harmless to arrest.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
...charging that the existence of the list in secret is a form of conviction without due process of law for the person who finds themselves on the list.
EVERY form of ruling or decision against a person should have an appeals process. That doesn't mean the process should be easy, or that someone should even have the right to know about their presence on the list until an activity of theirs comes into conflict with the enforcers of the list, but once one has found themselves k-lined they should have the right to appeal that ruling, and the regulating body or the courts should have the capability to ensure that a decision to deem someone on the list as not a risk should have a way of decisively enforcing that ruling. Obviously people who are real threats are not likely to go through the procedural channels to appeal such a listing, as that could result in their actual arrest, so it should be safe to allow people to appeal.
There was an example awhile ago of a man who worked for DHS or TSA or something listing his foreign-born wife on the terrorist watchlist so he could get rid of her. This one example of an official using such a list for his own petty abuse should be enough to require an appeals process, and on top of that, any official found, through malice or negligence, to put the wrong people on a list of this importance should face criminal charges and jail time for their actions. This is NOT something to be screwing around with.
It's funny- on the episode of the first season of the modern Doctor Who series, "Bad Wolf", the Doctor, Jack, and Lynda are arrested and judged guilty by a fairly low-level station security person who tells them that there is no appeal. That felt like science fiction but is looking more like a reflection of society now.
Of course, I don't really understand why there needs to be two lists anyway. Direct those officials in the various agencies that they are going to use the same list on the same actual database system and they ARE going to get the data right, and then fire anyone who attempts to stymie the system or drags their feet.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Guaranteed this list will be used for political purposes and also against those opposing the interests of big business.
Not only does DHS want to "copy and paste" a database that has been proven to be inaccurate from another organization and call it "good", but I'm certain that We the Taxpayers will be shown a $100-million dollar budget estimate, for that "little" project that will likely take 5 years to complete, with a final cost of $300 million.
In the meantime, damn near every other law-enforcement organization in the world simply uses Facebook...for free...and it's a hundred times more accurate.
And we wonder why we throw around words like "trillion" as if we're talking about the spare change found in the cupholder...
Hopefully they heard of this guy and have him already in their database.
http://xkcd.com/327/
If you want to know if you are on the watch list: You are.
It makes it easier for government to abuse citizens. It makes it slightly harder for terrorists and drug-runners to do their stuff.
Or innocent people from living their lives normally because they've been mistakenly put on a double secret list.
When innocent people start being treated like criminals, then you have a corrupt system that doesn't protect - it harms.
Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are the only candidates who have indicated any desire to roll back the unconstitutional powers of the DHS.
I honestly have no opinion either way right now because I consider myself uninformed, especially in this instance, but can someone explain this logic? > arguing the Privacy Act says DHS must notify subject of government surveillance. Surely this is silly... If you notify everyone you are conducting surveillance against, you would never stop any crime at all, right?
Seriously, if they were doing this in an ethical and above board manner, it would withstand any investigation, by anyone, and prove its value to ensuring safety through vigilance.
The mere fact that they want to avoid scrutiny means it's not ethical, not trustworthy, not reliable.
It just sounds like another way to screw over taxpayers. I want my share.
I was re-watching Silence of the Lambs today. We are shown a scene of Buffalo Bill's house, filled with home-raised moths and butterflies, unusual costumes and other assorted oddities, followed by a panned shot of Buffalo Bill sitting, typing naked, while his latest victim is languishing in a well. The above writer somehow reminds me of such a person. Not quite sure why.
"It's all BUSH's fault!!"
"Yeah! Bush is spying on us! IMPEACH BUSH!!"
"oh wait..."
just merge the social security data base with this watch list, and they'll never have to worry if they're missing anyone.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
How long before the DHS declares all persons in the world to be "potentially harmful to the state"?
In a way this is exactly what the DHS is for, because it's there to "combat (abstract) badness" and lists-of-lists-of-possible-baddies excels in meeting the requirements: It's abstract, it's got (declared yet unproven) badness in it, and it's highly ineffective so therefore, obviously, they'll need more of it. And that last bit is good because it self-perpetuates their (stolen) lease on life.
In some ways it's inevitable that such a thing would come to pass as it's rooted deeply in American[tm] culture. To see how, just consider all the government rhetoric about "good guys" vs "bad guys". Ten to one that if you're an American[tm] reading about anything with good-vs-bad in it would stir something patriottic. For of course being American[tm] implies being a Good Guy[tm][r], no?
Well, I'm from yurp (that place close to france; I'm not french though, we used to fight those guys) so while we've got a lot to thank America[tm] for, I'm not blind to its failings and I have to say, it's got its fair share of goof-ups and bad calls and a lot of direct and indirect blood on its hands. Just like everyone else, though some more than others.
To me, nobody is automatically a Good Guy[tm], and in fact that concept doesn't really exist. Good Deeds and Bad Deeds, however, do exist, and currently the tally of American Deeds[tm] is in the red. A tad, a bit, somewhat, you know. Bottom line, this is just more of the same contemporary popular pattern and it's up to American Citizens[tm] to force their American Government[tm] back in the black. And good luck with that.
It's like they are making the argument for a diaspora of their own citizens.
Come to the US, now with failed USSR policies*! Proof that Americans CAN'T learn from history.
Land of the free(ly watched, by its government, for their own safety), home of the (Atlanta) Brave(s)!
4 More Years! Yes, We Can!...lol.
Don't know if the new DHS listing really matters though. Wasn't there an article posted here on /. a month or two or three ago, detailing how the US gov't has some sort of internet listening ability at key points on the information superhighway's servers or routers or something? That'll catch anything about all of us anyway. Man I wish I could remember where that article was. I should've bookmarked it. Some guy who used to work for the FBI was coding the thing back around 9/11 and the gov't put it into action a year or two after that.
by merely discussing this program?
i mean, arent you really allowing the terrorists to win? shouldnt we strip you naked and stick you in solitary confinement for several months and tell everyone its for your own good?
http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2011/07/11/brushfire-with-julia-freedom-to-withhold-information/ See how they violate the law themselves, interfere with the FOIA, punish whistleblowers, and much more.
Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made. - Otto von Bismarck
There was never a propsed purpose aside from making better use of intelligence. Any 'feel good' derived from talking points, posited benefit, extc. is unofficial byproduct. Read: propaganda.
Secret Watch Lists!!!
Sounds -TREASONOUS....
I love it!!! Lets do it!
-Hackus
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
How's that hopey changey stuff working out for ya? You got enough hope yet? Enough change? No? Bet you can't wait to vote Obama in for another four years of more hope and change.
The Contagion affecting employees of DHS needs eradication.
The "putting down" of all DHS employees especially the DHS Sec is authorized by the Centers of Disease Control.
CDC urges use of caution in handling DHS dead flesh as contamination can result. All DHS dead flesh must be burned to ensure the containment of the contagion.
DoD has authorized a surgical neutron warhead nuclear strike on DHS buildings in the DC area.
Other Federal government employees in particular Congress are urged by DoD to congregate around DHS buildings prior to the surgical military actions.
Have a wonderful life ... before it ends ... DHS.
--//++
This is all being done under the watchful eye of the graceful Lord Obama, perfection incarnate, who can do no wrong. Why would you doubt his heavenly wrought designs could possibly have any nefarious purpose. His Almightynous couldn't ever conceive anything that should concern a lowly peasant like you, being ungraced by heavens blessings like our beloved glorious leader. What an abomination you are for even thinking such a thing!
It must be difficult to balance the gigantic task of protecting the country from terrorist attacks while still maintaining respect for privacy rights of citizens. It doesn't appear that the DHS is doing a great job of that, thank you for illuminating us with the article on how advocates view this situation.
You don't have anything to worry about... unless, of course, your name is the same as someone else who *has* done something wrong... or maybe look a little like someone who has done something wrong... or look like someone who might be doing something wrong.. or....
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
names? check
birthdays? check
photos? check
all facebook needs now is biometrics.
We should call them 'Stasi' and have done, as that's obviously what they're trying to be.
Who will watchlist the watchlists?
...and I live abroad for a large portion of the year. Whenever I come home, I make it a point, to enter the country illegally because of this absolute rubbish. The government, can kiss my American ass, I often hope to be arrested or apprehended by immigration so I can whip out my American passport and be like 'Fuck Off'. To be honest folks, at this point...only protesting and more protesting and more protesting is going to make this nonsense stop.
Sitting here and talking about it, and writing blogs isn't going to do anything; throw your bodies onto the machine so the gears can't move.
At least they'd have negotiated down from the "$400 billion" drag and drop that ends up costing $2 trillion.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
Say, dude, know where I can get sum jeans?
This sig is not paradoxical or ironic.
I wonder if it could be arranged to start up a collection of sorts, for a bounty? Say, offer a few million dollars to anyone who can supply the complete list?
Bradley Manning was an idealist, but rest assured there are a great many profiteers with high security clearances, who with sufficient incentive, would take the offer.
Posting AC for obvious reasons...
Just think of the office parties...they all get drunk and add names like "Ben Dover", "Dick Rasch" and "Hugh Jass".
Remember the uproar over the Patriot Act during the Bush administration? Now that the Democrats are in charge there aren't even any antiwar protests to speak of anymore...oh, the hypocrisy. Democrat and hypocrite are synonymous, heck, just look at the leaders in the environmental movement as they jet about to their various mansions and environmental 'summits' (vacations) or drive around in their SUV motorcades, just another case of left wing hypocrisy.
I am sorry, but to know you could be on a no fly list somewhere, and have no way of knowing why or how or even can't apply to be removed, should in itself be illegal.
I hope US parliament sets up a law against such things....there should atleast be channels to remove yourself from this list if you have been added accidentally or through error.
welcome to the future, bend over please.