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DHS Creating Database of Secret Watchlists
schwit1 writes "Homeland Security plans to operate a massive new database of names, photos, birthdays and biometrics called Watchlist Service, duplicated from the FBI's Terrorist Screening Database, which has proven not to be accurate many times in the past. DHS wants to exempt the Watchlist Service from Privacy Act provisions, meaning you will never know if you are wrongfully listed. Privacy groups worried about inaccurate info and mission creep have filed a protest, arguing the Privacy Act says DHS must notify subject of government surveillance. DHS has admitted that it 'does not control the accuracy of the information in system of records' and that 'individuals do not have an opportunity to decline to provide information.' Additionally, the DHS Watchlist Service attempts to circumvent privacy protections established by the Privacy Act. Who's watching the watchers?"
We'll probably eventually find out who's on it when all our personal info ends up leaked on a torrent somewhere.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I'm creating a watchlist of databases of watchlists!
Take That DHS!
Karma: Excellent. 15 moderator points expire sometime.
DHS has failed to make the country safer; if anything it made it easier for government to abuse the citizens.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
At least the DHS is finally doing something remotely related to terrorism, instead of playing enforcer for the RIAA. The downside to this is that they're doing something related to terrorism again.
Funny may not give karma, but +5 Informative never made anyone snort coffee out their nose.
And hopefully someone blows the whistle on anything unethical or illegal.
Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
While I don't like the Terrorist Screening Database operated by the FBI, this story is off the mark by making it sound like DHS is setting up a new list; which they are not. They are looking to improving how they get the information from the TSD. Read the abstract here:
http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/privacy/privacy_pia_dhs_wls.pdf
Because DHS has so much time and money to spend on other projects. Otherwise, they're a massively over-funded, bloated bureaucracy sticking their nose into places it doesn't belong.
It's one or the other.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
It seems like 1776 had been a wasted effort.
Rum go, old chap.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
And thank God for you guys, really, you're doing a great job! Without you these big government types would run roughshod over our civil rights! Keep submitting stuff like this!
Get these name on the watchlist ASAP.. John Smith, James Smith, Michael Smith, Robert Smith, John Johnson, James Johnson, Michael Johnson, Robert Johnson, John Williams, James Williams, Robert Williams, Michael Williams... surely one of those guys must be a bad guy, given the prevalence of the names... better safe than sorry!
There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
If the goal is to deter terrorists then they ought to publish the lists far and wide - if a some bad guy knows he's on the list then (a) he won't bother trying anything and (b) no other terrorists will go anywhere near the guy, thus reducing their ability to organise.
Unless there is an actual active investigation in process that would be jeopardised, keeping the list a secret is just silly - it's a list of people so dangerous they can't be allowed on an airplane or do other things normal people do but too harmless to arrest.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
...charging that the existence of the list in secret is a form of conviction without due process of law for the person who finds themselves on the list.
EVERY form of ruling or decision against a person should have an appeals process. That doesn't mean the process should be easy, or that someone should even have the right to know about their presence on the list until an activity of theirs comes into conflict with the enforcers of the list, but once one has found themselves k-lined they should have the right to appeal that ruling, and the regulating body or the courts should have the capability to ensure that a decision to deem someone on the list as not a risk should have a way of decisively enforcing that ruling. Obviously people who are real threats are not likely to go through the procedural channels to appeal such a listing, as that could result in their actual arrest, so it should be safe to allow people to appeal.
There was an example awhile ago of a man who worked for DHS or TSA or something listing his foreign-born wife on the terrorist watchlist so he could get rid of her. This one example of an official using such a list for his own petty abuse should be enough to require an appeals process, and on top of that, any official found, through malice or negligence, to put the wrong people on a list of this importance should face criminal charges and jail time for their actions. This is NOT something to be screwing around with.
It's funny- on the episode of the first season of the modern Doctor Who series, "Bad Wolf", the Doctor, Jack, and Lynda are arrested and judged guilty by a fairly low-level station security person who tells them that there is no appeal. That felt like science fiction but is looking more like a reflection of society now.
Of course, I don't really understand why there needs to be two lists anyway. Direct those officials in the various agencies that they are going to use the same list on the same actual database system and they ARE going to get the data right, and then fire anyone who attempts to stymie the system or drags their feet.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Bradley Manning leaps to mind. I feel pretty certain that if this database is immune from the Privacy Act, that any disclosures about it would be met with a trip to Guantanamo or equivalent.
Not only does DHS want to "copy and paste" a database that has been proven to be inaccurate from another organization and call it "good", but I'm certain that We the Taxpayers will be shown a $100-million dollar budget estimate, for that "little" project that will likely take 5 years to complete, with a final cost of $300 million.
In the meantime, damn near every other law-enforcement organization in the world simply uses Facebook...for free...and it's a hundred times more accurate.
And we wonder why we throw around words like "trillion" as if we're talking about the spare change found in the cupholder...
Hopefully they heard of this guy and have him already in their database.
http://xkcd.com/327/
If you want to know if you are on the watch list: You are.
It makes it easier for government to abuse citizens. It makes it slightly harder for terrorists and drug-runners to do their stuff.
Or innocent people from living their lives normally because they've been mistakenly put on a double secret list.
When innocent people start being treated like criminals, then you have a corrupt system that doesn't protect - it harms.
Ron Paul and Gary Johnson are the only candidates who have indicated any desire to roll back the unconstitutional powers of the DHS.
I honestly have no opinion either way right now because I consider myself uninformed, especially in this instance, but can someone explain this logic? > arguing the Privacy Act says DHS must notify subject of government surveillance. Surely this is silly... If you notify everyone you are conducting surveillance against, you would never stop any crime at all, right?
I was re-watching Silence of the Lambs today. We are shown a scene of Buffalo Bill's house, filled with home-raised moths and butterflies, unusual costumes and other assorted oddities, followed by a panned shot of Buffalo Bill sitting, typing naked, while his latest victim is languishing in a well. The above writer somehow reminds me of such a person. Not quite sure why.
It seems like 1776 had been a wasted effort.
Rum go, old chap.
Your freedom and privacy are secure. All you need to do is register for the DoNotWatchList and they are not allowed to watch you. I hear it's a $10,000 fine if you sign up for the do-not-watch-list and you catch them watching you anyway.
There is no "I disagree" mod for a reason. Flamebait, Troll, and Overrated are not substitutes.
"It's all BUSH's fault!!"
"Yeah! Bush is spying on us! IMPEACH BUSH!!"
"oh wait..."
just merge the social security data base with this watch list, and they'll never have to worry if they're missing anyone.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
I just want to know which government supercontractor stands to gain most from it. That is who is behind it.
Don't know if the new DHS listing really matters though. Wasn't there an article posted here on /. a month or two or three ago, detailing how the US gov't has some sort of internet listening ability at key points on the information superhighway's servers or routers or something? That'll catch anything about all of us anyway. Man I wish I could remember where that article was. I should've bookmarked it. Some guy who used to work for the FBI was coding the thing back around 9/11 and the gov't put it into action a year or two after that.
It seems like 1776 had been a wasted effort.
Don't go hyperbolic on us. We got to elect our own government. It was presumed that we would maintain our freedoms ourselves through representatives better than the Brits were doing. Probably true. Could be doing better, we should worry less about terrorism and more about our rights, but please, keep some perspective. This is the INTERNET after all. We have standards.
by merely discussing this program?
i mean, arent you really allowing the terrorists to win? shouldnt we strip you naked and stick you in solitary confinement for several months and tell everyone its for your own good?
What:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/61650044/WTF-Happened-to-the-Constitution-The-Right-to-Privacy-in-the-Digital-Age
http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/digital-age-what-heck-happened-constitution
Who:
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/investment_manager.html
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Secret Watch Lists!!!
Sounds -TREASONOUS....
I love it!!! Lets do it!
-Hackus
Got Geometrodynamics? Awe, too hard to figure out? Too bad.
And then they invented television and mass-media. 1/3 of the world gets their news from Mr. Rupert Murdoch. We, collectively, don't have a choice. Oprah fucking Winfrey got Obama elected and Rush fucking Limbaugh did the job for Bush. HELLO!?!?!?
The players from both parties profit from everything that happens. It's like WWF. It's a circus show. The only losers are the 99.99% of us who are spectators.
We got to elect our own government.
Nothing more to say.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
How's that hopey changey stuff working out for ya? You got enough hope yet? Enough change? No? Bet you can't wait to vote Obama in for another four years of more hope and change.
It must be difficult to balance the gigantic task of protecting the country from terrorist attacks while still maintaining respect for privacy rights of citizens. It doesn't appear that the DHS is doing a great job of that, thank you for illuminating us with the article on how advocates view this situation.
You don't have anything to worry about... unless, of course, your name is the same as someone else who *has* done something wrong... or maybe look a little like someone who has done something wrong... or look like someone who might be doing something wrong.. or....
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
We got to elect our own government
Eh, partially true. We have no say in who runs in primaries and even then, the party can overrule the decision for who runs for office, then we have a whopping two choices (which are usually 98% the same) for who to vote for. It's pretty much a big con job to provide the masses with a sense of control so that they don't rebel.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
names? check
birthdays? check
photos? check
all facebook needs now is biometrics.
We should call them 'Stasi' and have done, as that's obviously what they're trying to be.
Yep. And the other 2/3 of the world get their news from the in-the-bag willing accomplices in the press of the corruptocracies, plutocracies, and power-mad overlords.
Who will watchlist the watchlists?
...and I live abroad for a large portion of the year. Whenever I come home, I make it a point, to enter the country illegally because of this absolute rubbish. The government, can kiss my American ass, I often hope to be arrested or apprehended by immigration so I can whip out my American passport and be like 'Fuck Off'. To be honest folks, at this point...only protesting and more protesting and more protesting is going to make this nonsense stop.
Sitting here and talking about it, and writing blogs isn't going to do anything; throw your bodies onto the machine so the gears can't move.
Your freedom and privacy are secure. All you need to do is register for the DoNotWatchList and they are not allowed to watch you. I hear it's a $10,000 fine if you sign up for the do-not-watch-list and you catch them watching you anyway.
So... you mean they fine you $10,000 if you catch them watching you?
At least they'd have negotiated down from the "$400 billion" drag and drop that ends up costing $2 trillion.
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
Say, dude, know where I can get sum jeans?
This sig is not paradoxical or ironic.
Just think of the office parties...they all get drunk and add names like "Ben Dover", "Dick Rasch" and "Hugh Jass".
So... you mean they fine you $10,000 if you catch them watching you?
Yes, because they're already on the list.
Forget thrust, drag, lift and weight. Airplanes fly because of money.
You know you do have a say as to who runs in the primaries, but you probably don't want to do that as it requires some effort to register with one of the parties, become involved at your local precinct caucus, and then get to decide who the candidates are who are on the primary ballot. Also most people don't show up at the primaries so you can make a difference there as well but in closed primary states you need to registered with one of the parties. Also there is the option of going out on your own registering as a candidate, and getting enough signatures to get on the general election ballot but again that requires time and effort.
Time to offend someone
Really maybe it's time to make 2011 memorable for the same reasons.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
Remember the uproar over the Patriot Act during the Bush administration? Now that the Democrats are in charge there aren't even any antiwar protests to speak of anymore...oh, the hypocrisy. Democrat and hypocrite are synonymous, heck, just look at the leaders in the environmental movement as they jet about to their various mansions and environmental 'summits' (vacations) or drive around in their SUV motorcades, just another case of left wing hypocrisy.
Registering as a non-partisan requires exactly the same effort as registering as a partisan. Your implication that independents are too lazy to register is either ignorant or dishonest.
I personally share the feelings of many of the founding fathers, that political parties accomplish much more evil than good. Both parties should go to hell, and abandon their members to either think for themselves or stay out of issues they know nothing about.
Congratulations! You made the list!
If you think of Manning when you think of whistleblowers, then you don't know much about whistle blowing, or about Manning.
A whistle blower steps outside the chain of command, and informs various superiors of bad things - like writing a congress critter or twelve, or going to the courts, or the justice department, or in rare cases, going to the media.
Manning, however, did none of that. He stole data, and sent it outside the country, making it accessible to friend and foe alike. Manning is a low life, who ranks somewhere below most traitors. Manning did what he did out of spitefulness. All you fools who think of Manning as "whistle blower" and a "patriot" make me nauseous.
A whistle blower hopes to make improvements to society, and in many cases, actually does. A Manning hopes to hurt people. The mere fact that Manning hoped to hurt people that you apparently despise does not mean that Manning had any hopes of improving anything.
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
I am sorry, but to know you could be on a no fly list somewhere, and have no way of knowing why or how or even can't apply to be removed, should in itself be illegal.
I hope US parliament sets up a law against such things....there should atleast be channels to remove yourself from this list if you have been added accidentally or through error.