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How Linux Mastered Wall Street

itwbennett writes "Linux has become a dominant player in finance thanks to its ability to pass messages very quickly, said Linux kernel contributor Christoph Lameter. 'The trading shops saw that the lowest-latency solutions would only be possible with Linux,' Lameter said. 'The older Unixes couldn't move as fast as Linux did.' One key attribute was the TCP/IP stack, the configuration of which determines how fast a message can be passed between two systems. Linux also offers financial firms the ability to modify the source code to further speed performance. 'It depends on how daring the exchange is,' he said, noting that NASDAQ uses a modified version of the Gentoo Linux distribution. Lameter will discuss how Linux became widely adopted by financial exchanges at the LinuxCon conference in Vancouver this week."

46 of 339 comments (clear)

  1. NASDAQ uses Gentoo? by suso · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Oh dear god our economy is a whole lot more fragile than I ever imagined. Brings a new meaning to "emerge world".

    1. Re:NASDAQ uses Gentoo? by basketcase · · Score: 4, Funny

      So, what do I add to USE or CFLAGS to be able to call myself rich using imaginary money? CFLAGS="-fmake-money"? USE="federal_reserve"?

    2. Re:NASDAQ uses Gentoo? by Oxford_Comma_Lover · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nah, they should switch to Macs. There's nothing like running a TCP/IP stack that reuses a modified copy of old FreeBSD code without changing the comments. =)

      --
      -- IANAL, this isn't legal advice, and definitely isn't legal advice for you. Also, Squee!
    3. Re:NASDAQ uses Gentoo? by BitZtream · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thats kind of the point of BSD licensed code ...

      They'd be much better off switching to FreeBSD since its known to have the fastest IP stack in existence, hence why its used for high end networking gear. Let me know when you see your BigIP running something other than FreeBSD.

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    4. Re:NASDAQ uses Gentoo? by abigor · · Score: 2

      Nah, they should switch to Macs. There's nothing like running a TCP/IP stack that reuses a modified copy of old FreeBSD code without changing the comments. =)

      Why would they change the comments if they are reusing code that works? Just for the heck of it?

    5. Re:NASDAQ uses Gentoo? by ultranova · · Score: 2

      Oh dear god our economy is a whole lot more fragile than I ever imagined.

      What, you've not heard of microsecond trading before?

      You didn't actually think that stock exchange was somehow different from a rigged casino, right?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    6. Re:NASDAQ uses Gentoo? by Oceanplexian · · Score: 2

      BigIPs have since switched to a spun off version of el5 (we have 4 of them) :-) . I know this because I did a bit of reverse engineering and even got CentOS x86_64 binaries to run on one. The networking functions are offloaded to an asic, because of the massive speed improvements over software.

      Most high-end networking gear uses FreeBSD because of stability for the user interface. The actual network functionality is usually done in hardware. That said, who doesn't love fBSD for being rock solid. Linux is just better suited to bleeding edge performance applications though.

    7. Re:NASDAQ uses Gentoo? by marcovje · · Score: 2

      FreeBSD is known for its throughput and stability under load. I never saw figures for latency.

      Linux did have a lot of realtime stuff done over time (starting with 2.4.x)

      Still, it is indeed a bold claim, and I'd like to see the data. Unfortunately it is not that kind of article.

  2. I dont care of WallStreet likes linux by FudRucker · · Score: 3, Informative

    I still wont trust WallStreet with my money, which would be about like trusting an alcoholic with the beer at a party...

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:I dont care of WallStreet likes linux by migla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I still wont trust WallStreet with my money, which would be about like trusting an alcoholic with the beer at a party...

      I don't know how it is over there, but over here in Sweden everyone has money in the stock market as all pensions were moved there some years ago. We're all supposed to choose where to invest them and to care about the wellbeing of Wall Street.

      Kind of unfair advantage given to the propagandists of one economic system over another, in my opinion.

      --
      Some of my favourite people are from th US; Vonnegut, Chomsky, Bill Hicks.
    2. Re:I dont care of WallStreet likes linux by throbber · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So you don't have a pension / 401k.

      Or a bank savings account.

      Poor you.

    3. Re:I dont care of WallStreet likes linux by Yvanhoe · · Score: 2

      Or I live in a "socialist" European country.

      --
      The Wise adapts himself to the world. The Fool adapts the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the Fool.
    4. Re:I dont care of WallStreet likes linux by hedwards · · Score: 2

      For 0.1% interest, I don't see any incentive not to. At least this way you don't have bankers getting rich off your money.

    5. Re:I dont care of WallStreet likes linux by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you liked the old government pensions, there should be an option to invest your private pension in national bonds.

    6. Re:I dont care of WallStreet likes linux by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      This story isn't about investing. It's about flash trading, skimming off the top of the market taking a share of trades as they are just about to happen.

      Essentially, if you do any stock investment, these are the people that take a share of every purchase and sell you make by intercepting it as it's about to happen, testing for maximum buy/minimum sell value and trading both with you and the party you would have been trading with if they didn't have low latency supercomputers intercepting trades, pocketing the difference in the process.

      It's a very profitable and low risk endeavour that feeds on the market like a parasite.

    7. Re:I dont care of WallStreet likes linux by jawahar · · Score: 2

      Here in India, banks are allowed to invest 5 per cent of total assets in capital markets.
      But they invest a mere 0.2 per cent in stock markets.
      http://in.rediff.com/money/2005/sep/29banks.htm

    8. Re:I dont care of WallStreet likes linux by Arlet · · Score: 2

      Of course, bills under the mattress are losing value every day.

    9. Re:I dont care of WallStreet likes linux by iplayfast · · Score: 2

      Of course, bills under the mattress are losing value every day.

      By I. P. Knightly

  3. thanks for whoring quants by decora · · Score: 5, Insightful

    lets just ignore the fact that the Great Recession was directly enabled by the PHDs who turned their eyes askance at what the Gaussian Copula Function code was being used for. Not your problem right? You just make a tool, not your responsibility how others use it.

    you had five kids to feed.

    1. Re:thanks for whoring quants by tunapez · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem is that measures of uncertainty using the bell curve simply disregard the possibility of sharp jumps or discontinuities and, therefore, have no meaning or consequence. Using them is like focusing on the grass and missing out on the (gigantic) trees. In fact, while the occasional and unpredictable large deviations are rare, they cannot be dismissed as âoeoutliersâ because, cumulatively, their impact in the long term is so dramatic.

      The Godfather tried to warn them. Don't know if I'm pleased or saddened that he lived long enough to see his incredible tools turned into "weapons of financial destruction". [Emphasis mine]

      Luckily, he will be spared the repeat performance. Nothing's changed, they're still "printing money" every day. [emphasis theirs]

      --
      Imagination drew in bold strokes, instantly serving hopes and fears, while knowledge advanced by slow increments...
    2. Re:thanks for whoring quants by Raenex · · Score: 2

      What I dont get is why Obama largely continued the program

      Because Obama is an establishment politician. He's going to listen to the lobbyists and the people he put in charge, which came straight from the industry. He did what any other mainstream politician would have done, regardless of party.

    3. Re:thanks for whoring quants by nog_lorp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      equally the fault of

      Not how blame works. Google "blame is not a zero sum game". The influences (in part or wholly) responsible for any event are infinite, and so are the factors leading to those influences (i.e. it's not Goldman Sach's fault their parents didn't raise 'em right ;)

      And if you really think people with no financial know-how who were misled by predatory lenders (with the responsibility of providing those people sound advice) are as responsible as those who carefully architected massive fraud, you must be a troll (intentionally or not).

    4. Re:thanks for whoring quants by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      I don't know any predatory lenders, personally or even know where to look. I do know of more than a few people who were getting "rich" by flipping homes every six weeks, who are now completely busted with more debt than they can handle.

      What pisses me off is that I avoided both sides of the mess, but I'm supposed to pay for it all with more taxes.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    5. Re:thanks for whoring quants by AvitarX · · Score: 2

      As someone who was on the borrowing side I will say this (and no I wasn't greedy, divorce cut household income in half, the purchase was made with the understanding that either of us could lose a job, and still cover the bills, as long as there was unemployment, followed by basic retail at least):

      I did get helped by the bail out. BoA agreed to not pursue any deficit on a short-sale, this was not the way they acted before the bail-out.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
  4. Customizable Kernel by Warlord88 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As mentioned in the summary, linux allows the firms to modify the OS kernel to serve their purpose. For example, the performance of trading algorithms would considerably degrade if context switching is allowed. So you can modify the kernel so as to dedicate certain cores for the main algorithms to which the OS can pass a very limited number of signals.

    I know for a fact that at least one bank employs this in their high frequency trading group and probably all of them do.

    1. Re:Customizable Kernel by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That would be an interesting and a not too hard a project, I am assuming. So this in turn would imply that there would already be an option in the kernel to do it right? So why not improve the performance of gaming or computation systems by recompiling the kernel to do this?

      I suspect they are using some form of real-time extensions to the linux kernel. One thing they all share in common is little to no OS functionality is available to applications that are running real-time because, it is almost always the case that as soon as you ask the kernel to do something for you, all bets are off as to when it will get done or even when you will get scheduled back on to your cpu.

      So, in order for a game to take advantage it would need to isolate out whatever parts of the code are performance and dead-line critical so they wouldn't need to interact with the OS. And then the user would have to install and boot a linux kernel with the real-time stuff turned out.

      Also, FWIW, real-time is not about speeding up computation, it is about hitting your deadlines exactly when they need to be hit - not too soon, not too late. In many cases you trade off computational performance in exchange for the ability to meet those deadlines.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  5. Re:Really? by Superken7 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, they must have chosen it because it was free, even though they cite the fact that it was the best solution to their needs because of the lower latencies compared to alternatives and because of its flexibility.

    Since when do people like you bring a relevant argument to the table? Oh, that's right. You're an AC.

  6. Oh, Linux, how you've forsaken us by RobinEggs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is the very last place I like seeing Linux.

    The article is saying (obviously) that Linux is the chosen platform for high-frequency trading, i.e. algorithm-dominated trading that has everything to do with manipulating and responding to the market in nanosecond time frames for a quick buck and nothing to do with making stable, long-term investment decisions.

    I'd rather see evidence of a Linux machine in Hitler's bunker than hear about Linux helping Wall Street punks get even further from real, useful activities than they used to be.

    1. Re:Oh, Linux, how you've forsaken us by vux984 · · Score: 2

      I can't tell if your being sarcastic. I hope so, because otherwise what you wrote was idiotic. Not only does it not make sense, but the argument itself isn't even logical.

      Bottom line is that any profit extracted by HFT is at the expense of the real buyers and sellers of the underlying stocks.

    2. Re:Oh, Linux, how you've forsaken us by vux984 · · Score: 2

      would you rather have volatile markets with wide spreads, or more stable prices, with a highly liquid, small bid-ask spread

      The stock market wasn't more volatile 20 years ago.
      Liquidity wasn't a "problem" that needed to be solved either.

      The markets of 75 years ago benefitted significantly with the march of technology, but HFT hasn't made a good thing better.

      Arguing against new technology just because horse and buggy companies are going to go out of business is no sound argument at all.

      And how is that relevant? Who are the metaphorical horse and buggy companies here? Computerized trading systems make perfects sense. Internet connecting the buyers and sellers the world over so they can instantly and effortlessly trade is what reduced the spread, and added a significant and APPROPRIATE level of liquidity.

      Letting the HFT group leech MY profits to the tune of a factional cent so that trades could uccur at a fraction of a micro second faster with a fraction of cent less volatility is of no value whatsoever to the actual investors like me.

    3. Re:Oh, Linux, how you've forsaken us by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      All HFT does is take advantage of arbitrage opportunities that a human is too slow for.

      Exactly right but think about that for just half a second.

      Who was benefitting from the fact that the arbitrage opportunity was not exploited? In each case it was the buyer or seller.

      So the "profit" the HFT takes, is taken directly from the buyer or seller in each transaction.

      Everytime I place a buy order, without HFT, i might have got the shares for a few cents less. Everytime I place a sell order, without HFT, I might have gotten a few cents more for the shares.

      "HFT takes advantage of arbitrate opportunities that a human is too slow for" ... meaning my transactions would have closed without the "liquidity" HFT provided within seconds.

      So how do you reach any conclusion other than "HFT" is leeching profits from the actual buyer and seller, while providing nothing of value?

    4. Re:Oh, Linux, how you've forsaken us by I(rispee_I(reme · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When you buy low and sell high, that stabilizes prices. Since High Frequencies Traders are profitable, they therefore contribute to the stability of the market.

      This is exactly the fairytale middlemen tell themselves so they can sleep at night after making ludicrous amounts of money for producing nothing of value.
      Their only goal in life is not to the the last person holding the bag or the bottom tier of the pyramid. That's why latency is so important, and that's why the "free market" is a myth- as long as your latency is higher than someone closer to the exchange, there can be no level playing field.

      I've thought about this at some length, and barring "spooky action at a distance" to negate the effects of latency, two ideas commend themselves to me:

      1) A fixed interval of latency imposed on all trades that is much larger than the maximum latency differential. This seems like it might help things, but it also seems like sweeping the problem under the rug- there would still be some advantage to lower latency in trades, after all. The "high frequency trades" would just occur as close to that fixed interval as possible.

      2) An alternate currency used to pay those whose "profitable" actions can be repeated arbitrarily in a given interval. It takes no more effort to sell a million shares short than a billion, but (for example) an ear of corn cannot be multiplied effortlessly in a given interval. It seems to me that by paying the middlemen (who do not produce anything of real value) in the same coin as the farmer (who does), the farmer's money is devalued. Let me anticipate the "the middlemen would simply exchange their currency for the farmer's currency" reply by saying that in doing so, they would empower the farmer. After all, his currency is scarce, and the middlemens' currency is not.

      I'm sure I'm an imbecile who doesn't understand the subtleties of Wall Street, but then again, evidence seems to suggest that so is everyone else.

    5. Re:Oh, Linux, how you've forsaken us by couchslug · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Freedom doesn't mean "just freedoms you approve of".

      The best quote on the subject is from the OpenBSD camp:

      "But software which OpenBSD uses and redistributes must be free to all (be they people or companies), for any purpose they wish to use it, including modification, use, peeing on, or even integration into baby mulching machines or atomic bombs to be dropped on Australia."
      Theo de Raadt
            cvs@openbsd.org mailing list, May 29, 2001

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  7. Accuracy ? by Alain+Williams · · Score: 3, Informative

    As late as 2007, Wall Street exchanges were still largely run on Unix, such as HP's AIX and Sun Microsystems' Solaris

    I don't think that IBM will be pleased to be told that HP produced AIX!

    1. Re:Accuracy ? by Osgeld · · Score: 2

      I always thought hp unix's name was a vomit sound ...

  8. Pure Greed! by AlphaZeta · · Score: 2

    It's sad to see how much money Wall Street firms were able to generate using this open source platform. We have yet to see what the open source communities get from these welches!

  9. Wall Street by br00tus · · Score: 2

    Development and administration at Fortune 100 companies in Manhattan is different than any other place I encountered, including other large companies. There is a lot of message-oriented middleware to patch together different systems.

    You'd see a lot of strange stuff - a batch job printing from an IBM mainframe would be routed to the Unix print server, and be sent off to a junky old printer in some foreign country. Not always easy to debug when there is a problem.

    Where I was, there were a ton of these old programs written in FORTRAN, COBOL and whatnot which had had business logic put in them for decades sitting on these modern IBM mainframes. Some of the business logic within it was probably lost long ago, it all just "worked", with a lot of the output routed to more modern equipment and technology. I guess they figure if anything ever goes wrong, they have almost unlimited money to throw at the problem so they don't worry about it.

    You also have things happen. A business group has their developers write some program, it goes production on a machine or two, and then for whatever reason it generates a lot of money. Suddenly you have millions, sometimes even billions of dollars going over one production machine in a day. Everything happens so fast that it was never planned out to be scalable, and the main developer is too busy tweaking the program to make it make more money than to be scalable etc. If you're lucky, its market is closed during the week and you get to work on adding in additional levels of redundancy to the machine which suddenly has billions flowing through it every day. Despite the lack of planning, you better bet people will be flipping out if the machine goes down during the day, and the traders hear that their trades aren't going through due to "computer problems".

    At the Fortune 100 financial I was at, Windows was considered a joke. Even the local head of the Windows team admitted that the Unix side was where things were really happening. It was just more flexible, focused on high availability and so on. With Linux coming in so much on the Unix side, that flexibility has only increased. I'm sure whatever RHEL or SUSE edition being run on most servers is so heavily modified internally by the various companies internal engineering teams, that it doesn't look like a RHEL or SUSE anyone here has ever seen. And RHEL and SUSE bend over backwards to get the business - which can be on tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of machines around the world.

  10. Set the exchanges to a clock. by inhuman_4 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This high frequency trading is stupid. Everyone knows that it is a scam that is just making the markets more unstable. Yet no one does anything about it. IMHO the markets should have a clock speed like a CPU. All of the trades enter a queue and the queue gets executed once a second. This would limit each trading day to X number of ticks per day. This would go a long way to removing high frequency crap from the system. Of course people will then try to improve short term predictions rather than long term like they should. But it would be a step in the right direction.

    1. Re:Set the exchanges to a clock. by Zenin · · Score: 2

      So you make speed a disadvantage:

      0.5% transaction fee on any and all trades, payable by the seller. No "short term" vs "long term" math to game, just a flat fee on the gross amount of any transaction of any kind.

      It wouldn't affect real, long-term investment negatively at all; In fact it'd encourage stability by discouraging caching out (you take a 0.5% hit the moment you sell, even if you are taking a net loss, so it's in your best interest to hold for the long term).

      It would however, completely destroy the "business model" scam of high-frequency trading that only exists to leech money off of real investors by making every real seller get a bit less and every real buyer pay a bit more. The only way the scam works is if transactions are effectively free.

      ---

      At the same time the entire elitist concept of separate "capital gains" tax rates being distinct from "earned income" must be abolished completely. What the income tax system used is (progressive, flat tax, whatever), there is no legitimate reason on the face of God's green earth that makes one man's $10 bill any more special then another man's $10 bill.... If anything the person that actually worked for their $10 is far more deserving of a break then the person who sat on their fat ass doing nothing while $10 magically appeared in their account as "capital gains".

      --
      My /. uid is better then your /. uid
  11. contradicts basically every book written by decora · · Score: 2

    about the crisis. including

    On the Brink by Henry Paulson, who was CEO of Goldman until 2006, and sec. of treasury during the crash

    Too Big to Fail, Andrew Ross Sorkin

    etc etc etc.

    if Merrill hadn't been bought by BoA, and Morgan Stanley hadn't been bailed out by the Japanese banks, then Goldman would have fallen soon after.

    Goldman got its credit default swap deals with AIG payed off, 100 cents on the dollars, when they werent even worth a fraction of that... payed off when taxpayers bailed out AIG. if AIG had gone down, goldman would have gone down, crash, explosion. none of its 'big shorts' (or 'hedges' as lloyd blankfein likes to describe it, but alot of other people dont) would have worked.

  12. Yes, we are heavily linux by proud+american · · Score: 4, Informative

    I work at a major wall street bank. We used to be heavily Sparc/Solaris/C++. Over time the Intel platforms became much faster and much cheaper than the Sparc ones. There was some early concerns about reliability but it was not warranted. The boxes are so fast now we are almost exclusively using virtual linux boxes too.

    We are doing a lot of Java these days. The JVM's are much improved. It is very easy to write large heavily multithreaded Java apps to replace the our large C++ distributed systems. The Java development, build, debug, and deployment tools are great.

    One can spend time arguing the merits of C++ vs Java. The reality is in most cases the C++ development time is slower, and the coding patterns used do not produce code that is faster than Java. C++ development and deployment across different platforms is a pain.

  13. Re:and Java on the software side? by phantomfive · · Score: 2

    It makes sense if you are using Java for the GUI. Presumably they aren't using Java in their custom-kernel-hacking.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  14. Re:Show me the code. by Arlet · · Score: 2

    The GPL only requires you that you distribute the source code to those that have received the binary. So, if you modify GPL code for personal use, and do not distribute the binary, you're not required to distribute the source code.

  15. sad by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 2

    i have a few Gs in a savings account but i could pull it out any time i wanted it, and there would more than likely be a few bucks in interest added to it...

    I used to be like that when I was younger. A few Gs in a savings accounts. It is fucking sad, and reckless as a few Gs can evaporate quickly in an emergency. I say this in retrospect because I've been there. Luckily I grew up. Even in these times, working in software is one of the most profitable and safe careers there is. Anyone who works in software and only has a few Gs in savings is doing something very stupid with his finances.

  16. people who disagree with you by decora · · Score: 2

    Structured Finance and Collateralized Debt Obligations - Janet Tavakoli
    Lost Trust - Lang Gibson (CDO expert who worked for Merrill Lynch)
    The Trillion Dollar Meltdown - Charles R Morris
    A Colossal Failure of Common Sense - Lawrence McDonald (former Lehman bond trader) and Pat Robinson
    Confidence Game - Christine S Richard
    EConned - Yves Smith
    Diary of a Very Bad Year - Anonymous Hedge Fund Manager + Keith Gessen
    The Big Short - Michael Lewis
    All the Devils are Here - Bethany McLean and Joe Nocera
    The Zeroes - Randall Lane
    On the Brink - Henry Paulson
    Crash of the Titans - Greg Farrell
    How I Caused the Credit Crunch (novel) - Tetsuya Ishikawa (ex-Goldman worker)
    Mark Williams - Uncontrolled Risk
    Vicky Ward - Devil's Casino
    Chasing Goldman Sachs - Suzanne McGee
    And Then The Roof Caved In - David Faber
    Inside Job - Charles Ferguson (film)
    Panic - Andrew Redleaf
    Too Big to Fail - Andrew Ross Sorkin
    The Sellout - Charles Gasparino
    Street Fighters - Kate Kelley

    "1. Synthetic products were not significant, and certainly not a significant cause of the crisis. Cash products are the ones that created excess demand for real mortgages."

    --- The books that mention Synthetics, especially Tavakoli's, do not agree with this.

    "2. "Gambling" is a subjective term with negative connotations. I claim that any definition of "gambling" you can post will either be far to broad, or not include asset-backed securities or their synthetic counterparts. "Investing" is usually the prefered term for risk-taking in financial products. "Gambling" usually refers to games of chance, and betting on games of skill or sports."

    -- Gambling is not my phrase alone, several of these authors use the word, most notable Tavakoli and McDonald, both of whom have decades of experience in high finance. There is also a definition of gambling and speculation and how they compare to legitimate businesss activity or hedging, given in Edward Chancellors ' Devil Take the Hindmost ' -- a history of financial bubbles

    "3. Synthetic CDOs are based entirely on real cashflows."

    The 'flow of cash' in a CDS does not come from someone who bought a product, it comes from one counterparty who is gambling that a certain debt will never be payed off, to another counterparty, neither of which need to have any relationship, whatseover, with the debt they are betting on. This is described in Janet Tavakoli's book in great detail. Synthetic CDOs are made of CDS, thats why they are gambling.

    "Second, I'm sure it's completely false that ratings agencies didn't look at the underlying loans."

    Michael Lewis ver batim quotes an internal memo from ratings agencies in The Big Short, where a manager tells the workers that they do not have any underlying loan data, and that the products need to be rated anyways.

    "False, but points to a truth. First, ratings are always paid by the issuer (note I didn't say "banker" since banks aren't the only issuer). Remove the words "very highly": the issuer doesn't get to pick their rating. They can haggle "

    They 'haggled' by saying that if the rating agency didnt rate the bond highly enough, then the bank would go to another ratings company. This is well documented in books like The Big Short.

    "I can assure you that the books were written to generate sales, rather than provide an accurate historical record"

    Wow. I dont know what to tell you. If you beleive the entire industry of journalism, including hundreds of articles describing in detail the dozens of CDO frauds like ABACUS, Magnetar Capital, etc, and that its all a conspiracy theory then I guess I have nothing to argue against it.

    "And so did the CDO desks that made tons of money for their companies. And I think you gave credit to the desks where it's due: "

    Every thing ever written about the fall of Merill Lynch points directly to the CDO desk. The same could be said of Lehman and others. In fact, that is Goldman and Detuschebanks' defense of some of their acti

  17. bullshit morality could have stopped the recession by decora · · Score: 2

    before it started. lets take hedge fund manager Bill Ackman for example.

    he was telling anyone who would listen that the Monoline insurance companies were based on fraud. they were insuring stuff they were never supposed to have insured, risky stuff, and then lying to investors about it.

    what happened to him? He got investigated by the SEC. he could have gone to jail for a long time. the monolines didnt investigated, the ratings agencies didnt get investigated, the New York State Insurance regulators didnt get investigated for allowing this.... Bill Ackman got investigated.

    the monolines were like mini-AIGs - they enabled the fraud of the CDO market to continue even after AIG stopped insuring certain CDOs at the end of 2005. the monolines continued, and helped push the bubble up. then they all collapsed and died in 2009 - they were too small to get bailed out. their only mistake was not being bigger.

    its described in Confidence Game by Christine S Richard

    the 'bullshit morality' of Ackman , well, it actually made him a lot of money.

    the same for the 3 main groups in the Big Short .... they tried to warn the government about what was happening, and journalists, and they were largely ignored. their 'bullshit morality' made them a lot of money too.

    of course some people dont think these 'big shorts' behaved morally..... because they profited from the crash (Yves Smith thinks they helped it... because Synth CDOs were made up of their bets (CDS))

    anyways.

    there were others. Janet Tavakoli in particular wrote some textbooks on CDOs , describing a lot of the fraud that was inside the business. Her 'bullshit morality' might not get her the fame and TV spots, but then again, her type of 'bullshit morality' is the foundation of all modern civilization.