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A TV That Knows and Shares What You're Watching
holy_calamity writes "A technology will be appearing soon in TVs that fingerprints what is onscreen and sends that information to an internet server able to identify the content, whether it's live TV or another source, like a DVD. Web pages and mobile apps using the same connection as the TV can access that information using an API, allowing online content to dynamically provide relevant information and ads to be more targeted. Startup Flingo, which developed the technology, says one of the top 5 TV brands in the US will launch a set with the Sync Apps system in coming months."
I do not want this technology.
probably a first step responsible for IP TV to go mainstream....
Orwell called, he wants his dystopia back.
Find out who is watching what: Only $10/month for unlimited access!
Selling firewalls that block the Big Brother connection.
Easy Online Role Playing Campaign Management
What could possibly go wrong?
If my viewership can help the obscure shows I like get some advertiser love, I'm fine with my TV "reporting" on me. Back in the day, they apparently only gave Nielsen boxes to hillbillies in trailer parks (who apparently weren't big Firefly fans). I even volunteered to be a "Nielsen family," but I guess they didn't give them to single geeks. In fact, the only Nielsen family I ever even met was a family of local rednecks in my hometown when I was a kid. They were barely literate and I'm not even sure how they filled out their weekly paperwork (this was before the set-top boxes). I think they probably just randomly checked boxes, which may explain how "The Love Boat" ran for eight seasons.
Now, having said that, there *are* limits. DON'T YOU BE REPORTING ON MY PORN! THAT'S WILLIE'S TIME!!!
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
...end up being the result of porn.
At least I'll know what kind of TV not to buy.
Where's the donotwant tag when you need it?
"Hi. I see you are watching "HalfBreeds Gone Wild. Would you like to subscribe to "Obama's Adult Fan Club?"
(Not making this up! Hulu already does this!)
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I get why vendors want this feature, I just don't see what is in it for the people who actually buy the TVs. I remember having the same feeling when Microsoft was touting how VIsta would have this stuff in it that would make it harder for people to copy copyrighted material.
The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
See that ethernet port on the back of your tv? don't plug anything in to it.
Your tv have wireless (snazzy!) don't give it your wireless password.
Your tv secretly connecting to the 3g cellular network to report back information? A. who cares it doesn't know who you are anyway and B. start up a class action lawsuit... or C. search the web until you find www.sonytv-hacks.com and follow their instructions to load custom firmware on your tv that lets you use the secret 3g connection as a tether'd internet connection and subsequently torrent anonymously to your heart's connent.
TL;DR: you have nothing to worry about.
Guess this is the end for "Big Brother" since it will be in every home soon enough....
Seems kind of redundant really. Unless it is spying on you while you are watching your personal media collection, there is a playback mechanism that already has sufficient information on what you are watching to precisely identify what you are watching.
I tweaked my MythTV setup to enable this very sort of thing. I would expect an outbreak of spastic paranoia if such features were in the official version though.
Makes it easy to see that I am watching entirely too much TV though... and what it might cost to replicate same with iTunes.
Isn't Tivo already spying on people like this?
Likewise Netflix and Apple could do the same.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
If used as a replacement for Neilsen Ratings then I would actually be all for this, as long as the data was properly anonymized (or only searchable/exported with an obscure TV ID or Viewer ID, and not easily identifiable information). I don't mind advertisers knowing which shows are more popular, but I'd rather that neither they or any other entity tracks all my TV viewership for the sake of either custom-tailoring ads/junk/spam at me or monitoring me specifically.
Judging by what is on TV right now, I think we need to try an alternative to Neilsen Ratings to see if that fixes anything ... or at least confirms that humanity isn't worth saving.
If enough people refuse to buy it- they'll stop selling it.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Or will they be obsoleting the non-net-aware ones via HDCP so we all have to upgrade?
.. anyone remember NTSC-M?)
(bend over backwards to not obsolete first-gen tech
Unless it is spying on you while you are watching your personal media collection
FROM TFA:
The system can identify any content onscreen, whatever the source, whether live TV, DVDs or movie files playing from a computer.
They want to sell me a TV that tracks what I do and gives that information to others who's only interest is selling me things based on my TV viewing habits?
Why on earth would anyone want a TV that targets spam at them? I suppose if someone were to get the TV for free, they would put up with the spam. But I can't see that as being a huge customer base. Then again, we're talking about the TV viewing public. I wouldn't have though there was much of a market for inane reality shows. I guess I'm just overestimating the intelligence of the TV viewing public.
is exactly why i gave up television 10 years ago. Its not designed for entertainment, its designed for marketing.
I can just as easily sit down with a copy dune that i own and read it cover to cover to my hearts content, without anyone interrupting me every five to seven minutes trying to get me to buy a sugary energy drink or cell phone or car.
and unlike E-Readers, revoking a copy of a real book after ive purchased it is much more likely to get your face broken.
Good people go to bed earlier.
A TV that knows when I am tugging on my junk just so it can nark to my computers and suggest I do it more.
"That's right...I said it."
So .. does opting out turn off the data feed from the TV, or does it just flag itself as opted out?
..
Can opting out only be done at the first turn-on, or is it available later on through the setup menu? And if you opt in later, can you opt out again or are you locked in?
How long will it be before scripts get out into the wild that let your 1337 h4x0r neighbor kid eavesdrop on your TV watching habits because you're still running WEP on your wireless network?
Inquiring minds want to know
..... the fact is, it is providing information to someone about what you are doing. Cell phone companies are facing law suits that are all about privacy concerns. If Cell phone companies are not supposed to track your location, how does the Broadcast Media industry think they have rights to relay information back to 3rd parties about what you watch in the privacy of your own home? Will they add little camera to your TV so as to video you in your home, to monitor what product you might be using so as to further focus their advertisements to you?
I may learn to soon love life without TV.
Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
Just don't buy the damn thing.
Is buying a Harley Davidson as your first motorcycle since you were 16 at age 49 a midlife crisis issue?
Every major cable provider tracks what you watch already. Your cable box asks the provider for a particular show, and that request is logged. The logs are collected and reports are generated. This has been going on for many years, and no, you don't need to consent.
I'm not saying this is a good thing, but I do wonder how many of the folks saying they'll never buy these TVs because of privacy concerns already use cable.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
Or is this just one of those things that are going to happen in a cartel kind of way, like HDMI and plugging the analog hole?
I'm not a lawyer, but I play one on the Internet. Blog
This system has the same problem as photo-radar speed traps: you can identify the vehicle, but not necessarily the driver.
Seems to me that if the data gathered from the TV is correlated to users on-line utilizing the same internet connection, it should be possible for someone to get some idea of what other people in the same household have been watching (or possibly are watching at the time, which if you are clever can be done remotely). This could also become annoying for others in the household. For example: I could be watching football while my girlfriend surfs the internet. Even though she might be on the internet to avoid watching football, will she be bombarded with football related advertisement?
As long as a TV is identifying content, does it also identify pirated content? (A show that looks like a known show, but in poorer quality, for instance?) If so, does it report me to the MAFIAA?
This looks like a slippery slope.
(T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
recent news reports are describing a sinister technology being developed by a company named "flingo" next up, an impressive implementation for automated human euthanization has been patented by boobytoo, a new startup out of silicon valley
One of the few shows I watch is Have I Got News For you. I also admit to having liked Miranda... so you are going to give me ads for loud shirts, big girls clothes and boring suits?
Well, they sure got my number.
Except I don't wear suits, my shirts are black and I am not a big girl.
Most people just don't ads, targetted or otherwise. Stop listening to focus groups, only inbred mutants ever volunteer for them. Ask around, who do you know that has ever been in one?
Now there is a group who likes ads but they tend to be the sort that are a bit... stupid. The kind who want a hat just like XXX who is having their 15 minutes of fame. That is not a large enough group for advertisers.
Stuff like this is very old, there are countless attempts to get people to consume advertising. QR codes? OLD hate, barcodes were earlier. CueCat anyone? Total failure. People just ain't that into ads. Most ads realize this and therefor different from the advertising in a supermarket where an ad is a sign telling you this item can be bought for this right now. Rather a car ad wants to create a feeling with you so that in future, that feeling might come back when you are considering buying a car. People aren't going to jump up from their TV show to google that car the criminal was driving. Or stop their movie evening to google what her names dress.
Oh a small percentage might but are they going to buy a new TV just for that?
So you have a subset of a subset and then they have to agree to buy THAT tv and not one of the countless other models.
Not enough of a market. These things NEED mass adoption in a small time frame to survive. Nothing has worked in the past. Just name one of the countless once introcuced over time that have made it. A free cuecat for the winner.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
"HDTV will be picked up by those spying on you. "
You're joking aren't you? They will never absorb the extra cost. They will pass on the cost to you, they just will not tell you about it!
we're already half way there; all the people with TV equipped with network port, do you know what it has been transmitting when it's not streaming video for you?
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
If I had one of these tvs I'd spoof my neighbor's IP and then leave a XXX porn dvd playing on auto-repeat.
Tho I dont like where this is technology is going...I'm not worried. I've already covered rouge TV communications nearly a year ago.
Its called a ROUTER.
My current TV has ethernet, and yes, its jacked into my local network. It has access to a local DNLA server for local media.
Being one to not allow a TV unfettered access to the net...the TV has a static IP, and any attempts to get to the net are slammed at the router. The rule is lifted only occasionally if I want to check for software updates.
So...considering this crowd, I dont think the media corps will be getting their marketing info from anybody 'round here.
No..my set doesnt have any 'net apps'. And even if it did, rules restricting connections can easily be created to connections only "I" approve of...
I think now, more than ever, it is more important to take control of your gateway router/box and DNS so that you can limit the outgoing data and control what is being sent and when. Anyone know of a web-based service I can run that will easily let me review and tinker with out-bound fw rules?
here's my idea for a solution to this: Make a home movie. Play it on the TV. Sue the TV manufacturer for violating your copyright to your home movie by creating and distributing a derivative work. Profit.
Pound! Bang! Bin! Bash! is this a shell script or a Batman comic?
Soon? Their website says it is in homes already. http://www.flingo.org/developers.html "Flingo connects with any TV that runs a Flingo-enabled application. It's already in millions of living rooms!" Here is the section that talks about how it works."Flingo-enabled devices such as connected TVs and blu-ray players announce to flingo.tv by sending an HTTP request. A Flingo-enabled web site later discovers Flingo-enabled devices by sending an HTTP request to flingo.tv using cross-site scripting. flingo.tv then returns a list of all Flingo-enabled devices sitting behind the same public IP as the browser." The strange on is that the website can control the TV. So I can see TV stations of the future hijacking what I'm watching. Say I'm watching something and my wife is surfing the web. She goes to a website about dogs, my show on how to BBQ automatically switches over to a dog show now. Talk about problems. Quote "So far we have discussed using Flingo to tell a TV to play or queue a video. However, Flingo can be used to communicate arbitrary messages so long as the Flingo-enabled application in the receiving device is written to understand them. As such Flingo can be used to remote control TV applications, manage the user's queue, or do whatever interesting thing someone in the Flingo community can imagine." Things are going to be quite interesting in the future. They will know my age, gender, race, family members, shows I watch and how many times, did I fast forward, rewind, etc, tie that into the neighborhood stats (age area, avg income level, etc) and then tie that into any other print or subscription services, like gym memberships, reward programs that I belong to, etc. Then tie that into products that I purchased around the time an advertisement was played at me and tada! they know me better than I know my self.
Paul: Father... father, the sleeper has awakened! - Dune
You are think of this all wrong. rather than view it as yet another intrusive attempt to gather data and make money off of it; think of it as an opportunity to Slashdot ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H educate content creators
1. Hook up an IR sender to your computer
Scrape TV listings
Create open source show selector, channel changer, and URL generator
Watch favorite show 24/7
Profit? That's the content creators problem, you just don't want your show cancelled.
Seriously, properly done the noise will cancel out the signal. Even better of course, would be a spoofed data stream....
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Flingo? Zoosk?
Why don't these companies name themselves something respectable? How is anyone with half a brain supposed to take these companies seriously?
Reminds me of the SNL skit - www.clownpenis.fart
If I'm paying for the hardware, and paying for the service, I shouldn't get any ads at all. I know this isn't the case in current society, but that's how I decide to use my spending money.
Now, if you want to give me the TV for free, then we can talk about delivering ads to me.
Cable TV set top boxes report back what you're watching, and the cable companies sell that data to market research companies and others. Look at fine print in the privacy agreement that you agreed to when you signed up for cable TV. You gave the cable companies permission to do that.
this is just spooky.. too far
Having Big Brother knowing whatever you watch on TV is a reality today already for those who have a fiber connection and use IPTV. With the Data Retention Directive that EU is pushing (although it is found to be in conflict with the constitution in eg. Germany), what you are watching (live TV or your recordings), and when you are watching it is likely to be stored "forever". This despite the fact that this kind of information is not part of the directive, but since the IPTV providers also provide you with the internet connection, it is likely they store the TV logs just the same way. Welcome to 1984.
I have verizon fios triple play, an I know for a fact they collect data on what channels I watch and when, because my friend works for them and he was involved in developing the software for the set top boxes.
Be honest, when the novelty wore off, how many times did you REALLY use it not to show off but to actually get info you wanted? How often do you see QR codes in the wild? (Not in japan, japan is the exception for everything)
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Teevee? Wasn't that the push video thing from before the 'net? Where you had to sit in front of some glaring, flickering cathode ray tube to see ghost images projected on the phosphorous layer in front of the thing? I heard they showed people walking on the moon on those things, for real!
How times change. Now TV is dead, but there is nobody walking on the moon.
--frank[at]unternet.org
able to identify the content, whether it's live TV or another source, like a DVD.
TV: It looks like you are trying to watch a DVD. Please hold the receipt up in front of the camera to verify ownership to proceed.
User holds up the receipt.
TV: Verifying... please wait while I contact the authorization server.
TV: Unable to access the verification server at this time. Playback paused. Please standby.
[Hours pass]
TV: Connected to authorization server... The receipt is valid, but the credit card number does not match your facial record. Playback terminated. *IAA contacted. Please remain where you are with your hands on your head until authorities arrive.
thats fuckin sweet I get to pay the cable company to monitor everything i do on my TV now, including the use of non cable services
whats even better, is that on top of paying them for the honor of collecting this data, they are probably going to be data mining the shit out of it and selling information about my viewing habits to advertising agencies for another hefty profit
I have been wondering when individuals would be given the option to sell their information and make money off it, rather than having one of our service providers (ISPs, telecoms, cable cos) scrape data, build a profile and sell our data, making the profit themselves
The stupidest part of this whole thing is that despite being a paying customer, i have to let them whore my personal information around to the highest bidder. And guess what, if i dont fucking like it, then i can stop using their fucking service, there is no expectation of privacy, despite being a paying customer on a closed-access system.
I see the point of making it mandatory on free services, since that's the way most free services are able to stay in business and make a profit,but when you as the customer make the decision to pay for that same freely available service, there should be some protections in place to prevent us from this exploitation
I remember thinking my grandmother was paranoid because she thought that the people on the other end of the TV could see her. I guess she was just ahead of her time.
God is imaginary
TV Watches YOU!
In Soviet Russia TV watches us :)
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them.
When the guy came to install DirecTV, he plugged the DVR into the phone socket and said something about it being necessary. Uh huh. The second he walked out the door, it was unplugged. For the entire lifetime of my DirecTV use, I never needed that phone connection because I never used "pay for view" or "on demand" TV.
My fear, whether it was real or not, was that the DVR would decide to dial up DirecTV at 3:33am or similar and upload a whole bunch of information about what I had been watching or listening to.
As far as I was concerned, satellite TV was just another broadcast mechanism.
Now so far as this goes with respect to the Internet, solutions are:
- configure the TV to use your HTTP proxy and block the TV from connecting to the big-brother website
- install a transparent proxy
Unfortunately both of those options require running a real firewall on your internet path, not just the firewall in your cable/DSL modem.
No cable, no problem!
Sorry, but gray text on gray background is making my eyes bleed.
Get the @#%&*^#%*& outta my living room. Seriously, if i want to subscribe to the QVC channel I will by my own choosing!
Once all entertainment content comes into your home via the internet - how far is that away, 5 years? - they won't need to "fingerprint" what is on the screen since what you are viewing will be tracked anyway like web habits are tracked. And as another commenter pointed out, cable tv providers already track what you watch.
So what is the agenda for this short lived intermediary technology - surveillance of private content?
So in case most of Slashdot missed that point, they want to eavesdrop on every frame sent to tue monitor. Doesn't matter where it comes from.
I wouldn't really care about this except for the fact that it sounds like they would be able to snoop on your home videos and digital camera photos.
I mind much less about them taking notes on my TV watching habits because they were always in control of what came through the TV signal. That was their territory, and if they wanted to try and make things better, maybe that's somewhat fair. I think we all know that that sales pitch is a lie, and it's always been a game of how to justify charging more for ads.
But now, this is about two ugly things. Eavesdropping and DRM.
It sounds like this machine will calculate a hash value for every frame sent to the monitor, and then allow the "Service Provider" to audit if your content is legally owned and properly licensed.
Eventually you will learn that law enforcement will be able to employ forensic analysts to incriminate people with this data. (and I bet false positives will never stray beyond standard deviation *wink!*)
Somewhere along the lines a service tech will spill the beans and we'll findout that it was collecting much more than just hashes, and that hackers we re able to snoop actual frames of home made porn and build lucrative websites catering to this voyuerism overseas.
Why would I pay to be observed like this? Why do they think I'll buy a device that is built to tattle on me and drip gossip from every wire connected to it? Do their lawyers honestly think that with enough provisos in an end-user agreement, I'll tolerate any abuse?
Those ignorant of history are doomed to repeat it.
It seems every few years another upstart somehow gets VC for another go at the "context-aware" commercial viewer product which surely everyone wants, particularly on a voluntary basis with only a complete privacy tradeoff.
Good luck with that -