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Car Makers Explore EEG Headrests

Posted by Soulskill on from the combine-with-electroshock-and-we've-got-a-winner dept.

mrtr writes "A number of car makers are looking at whether EEG devices built into headrests could prevent accidents by sensing when a driver is in danger of drifting off. The technology comes from Neurosky, which already makes commercial EEG units for use in gaming and market research. Other approaches, such as using cameras to spot drooping eyelids, have proven too unreliable so far. From the story: 'Fatigue causes more than 100,000 crashes and 40,000 injuries, and around 1,550 deaths, per year in the United States, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Some studies suggest drowsiness is involved in 20 to 25 percent of all crashes on monotonous stretches of road.'"

56 of 77 comments (clear)

  1. So make the road less monotonous by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Nice winding roads and an unlimited speed limit would get rid of much of that monotony.

    1. Re:So make the road less monotonous by Baloroth · · Score: 1

      Nice winding roads and an unlimited speed limit would get rid of much of that monotony.

      That is a very good idea. Not, of course, for reducing car crashes, but for accelerating the process of natural selection.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    2. Re:So make the road less monotonous by godrik · · Score: 1

      And set up tanks on the side of the road shooting at the cars. That would definitively make trips less monotonous!!

    3. Re:So make the road less monotonous by geekoid · · Score: 1

      If you are that tired, then driving faster on winding roads just means you will kill someone.
      Automated cars will fix this problem.

      --
      The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    4. Re:So make the road less monotonous by citizenr · · Score: 2

      Nice winding roads and an unlimited speed limit would get rid of much of that monotony.

      That is a very good idea. Not, of course, for reducing car crashes, but for accelerating the process of natural selection.

      German autobahns disagree with you.

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    5. Re:So make the road less monotonous by cdrguru · · Score: 2

      I believe a good portion of the Autobahn now has a speed limit. I was rather surprised in the area around Stuttgart in January this year.

      Previously, I had been practically run off the road at 210 kph (left lane) while the right was moving at 100. Obviously, any sort of car problem (tire, suspension, etc.) would have been fatal with no place to go.

      I found some unmarked areas around Stuttgart but the "default" seemed to be 100kph rather than unlimited. Very few places left without speed limits, at least in that area.

    6. Re:So make the road less monotonous by Kielistic · · Score: 1

      Until, of course, you get behind someone driving very slow (because it's a dangerous winding road) and you cannot pass them because it is a winding road with no visibility. Give me straight and flat over winding any day.

    7. Re:So make the road less monotonous by PopeScott · · Score: 2

      The Autobahn is actually maintained, unlike 99% of the roads in America.

    8. Re:So make the road less monotonous by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      Or... remove all markings, signs and traffic controls!

      "The goal of shared space is an improvement in road safety, encouraging negotiation of shared areas at appropriate speeds and with due consideration for the other users, using simple rules like giving way to the right.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shared_space

    9. Re:So make the road less monotonous by GNious · · Score: 2

      Nice winding roads and an unlimited speed limit would get rid of much of that monotony.

      That is a very good idea. Not, of course, for reducing car crashes, but for accelerating the process of natural selection.

      German autobahns disagree with you.

      ALL of the Autobahn is limited to 130 kph - on SOME of it, you are allowed to exceed this, with the observation that you are absolutely guilty of any incident, if going faster than 130 (80.7 antiquated units per hour).

      The rules relating to the layout and quality of the Autobahn are also more strict that anywhere, so before you apply observations about the Autobahn to any other stretch of road, first apply the rules.

    10. Re:So make the road less monotonous by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      I'd love it if we could get our speed limits up to 80MPH on the freeways here in California, and a minimum speed limit law for the fast lane.

      I spent 3 hours on the road today, about half of it stuck behind a truck and an old guy, both doing 60MPH.

      Honestly, experienced drivers know what the safe speed for a road is, and generally drive it - speed limits be damned.

    11. Re:So make the road less monotonous by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      I spent 3 hours on the road today, about half of it stuck behind a truck and an old guy, both doing 60MPH

      Wait... the old guy was next to the truck for an hour and a half? That's illegal in most states. And most states do have minimum speeds on the interstates.

      If you were on a two lane road, sixty is fast enough. There are people getting on and off, passing, etc. 80 on a 2 lane road is suicidal insanity, or stupid ignorance.

      --
      Free Martian Whores!
    12. Re:So make the road less monotonous by GNious · · Score: 1

      Honestly, experienced drivers know what the safe speed for a road is, and generally drive it - speed limits be damned.

      I do not agree with that assessment, simply based on pure experience, but assuming it holds true: Issue is not the experienced drivers - it is usually the in-experienced drivers, especially those who consider themselves competent drivers. They will not know when it is safe to go fast, and are too likely to go too fast.
      Now, if auto-accidents were 100% solo-accidents, I'd be OK with this (see strange post above about natural selection), but since they will inflict damage on others, as society, we have to set limits that everybody can handle.

      Thats not to say that the old geezer in your example shouldn't have pulled in and cleared the road for you to pass the truck, if there was nothing in front of him...

    13. Re:So make the road less monotonous by Urkki · · Score: 1

      Honestly, experienced drivers know what the safe speed for a road is, and generally drive it - speed limits be damned.

      Of course, the problem with that is, a driver themself isn't able to judge if they're experienced enough... Total kilometers driven is only a guideline, some drivers will never be experienced enough no matter how many kilometers they've driven. Applies also to those who use miles.

    14. Re:So make the road less monotonous by Urkki · · Score: 1

      Nice winding roads and an unlimited speed limit would get rid of much of that monotony.

      That is a very good idea. Not, of course, for reducing car crashes, but for accelerating the process of natural selection.

      German autobahns disagree with you.

      Autobahns aren't exactly "winding roads", and "nice" is very debatable also.

    15. Re:So make the road less monotonous by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

      True when you aren't tired.
      But if you are tired, or if the driver of the speeding car coming the other way is tired, this will also get rid of you.
      Speed limits please.

    16. Re:So make the road less monotonous by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

      On a four or five line interstate, every single lane will be going 75MPH in Southern California. The DoT uses the guideline that 10% of drivers are crazy idiots, and set the speed limits on surface streets to the 90th percentile.

      Except on Freeways, where they arbitrarily set much lower speed limits.

    17. Re:So make the road less monotonous by luxifr · · Score: 1

      I believe a good portion of the Autobahn now has a speed limit. I was rather surprised in the area around Stuttgart in January this year.

      Doesn't apply in general. There are plenty of Autobahns that do not impose speed limits. Also I found that most of the time when there is a speed limit on an Autobahn it actually makes sense for some reason! Contrary to that have a look at the A9 between, say, Bayreuth and the intersection to the A72. There's no speed limit most of the times. But there are 3 lanes for each direction (plus emergency lane) and the road is in good shape.

      but the "default" seemed to be 100kph rather than unlimited

      The "default" (i.e. recommended speed) on an Autobahn and a Bundesstraße, which is made like an Autobahn, is 130kp/h. Also if there's anything wrong at 100kp/h and you don't react right the result is almost the same as with 200kp/h.

  2. c is the limit by rossdee · · Score: 1

    Sorry, an unlimited speed limit is not possible. You can't exceed the speed of light.

    1. Re:c is the limit by h4rr4r · · Score: 1, Funny

      At least let me try!

    2. Re:c is the limit by Intropy · · Score: 1

      And it takes almost a year to get up to that speed.

    3. Re:c is the limit by Urkki · · Score: 1

      Sorry, an unlimited speed limit is not possible. You can't exceed the speed of light.

      But you could always go faster than you're going, there's no limit to that. You can always have arbitrarily high acceleration, assuming your car isn't so wimpy as to be limited by running out of fuel, or loss of structural integrity due to air resistance and friction, or having insufficient power to accelerate arbitrarily fast.

  3. Magical electrodes by EdZ · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wait, they expect a set of dry electrodes positioned vaguely near the back of a persons head trying to record and distinguish brainwaves to be MORE reliable than the camera system? It's hard enough to get a reliable and accurate read with wet-contact electrodes through hair!

    1. Re:Magical electrodes by Deep+Esophagus · · Score: 2

      Add to that the fact that not all drivers even USE the headrests... I sit up straight, so my head is a bit forward of the headrests at all times. Somebody really did not think this through all the way.

    2. Re:Magical electrodes by Hylandr · · Score: 1

      Same here. I wager it's those that drive practically laying down that are falling asleep. I say connect the electrodes to a Tesla coil and see how fast those asses sit up!

      - Dan.

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    3. Re:Magical electrodes by Woogiemonger · · Score: 1

      Welcome to the advancement of technology.. FTA "NeuroSky say its latest sensors can operate through fabric, such as the outer layer of a vehicle's headrest" .. they also say they know they can distinguish between brainwaves of someone awake and at rest, but it doesn't specify if that's through fabric or not.

    4. Re:Magical electrodes by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      So do I, but I recently test drove a volvo and the headrests are different, you feel them against the back of the head.
      I wonder if EEG can detect drunkenness ?

      --
      Nullius in verba
    5. Re:Magical electrodes by milkmage · · Score: 1

      but they're only looking for alert vs drowsy, which I would imagine are significantly different patterns..

      "We know we can distinguish between the brain waves of someone who is wide awake and alert and someone who is drowsy and at risk of falling asleep at the wheel," says Tansy Brook, a spokeswoman for NeuroSky. "Further testing is required. However, we are far enough along to say this is absolutely viable."

  4. Using Headrests by netdigger · · Score: 1

    How many people rest their heads against headrests. I know I never use it no matter what car I am driving.

    So how effective will be to put an EEG in the headrest if you head never touches it.

  5. And what will it do... by hipp5 · · Score: 1

    when it detects you are drowsy? Shut the car off? Shock you? Pour you a cup of coffee?

    1. Re:And what will it do... by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      Notify your insurance company.

      Something tells me these won't be optional equipment. Brought to you by the automotive/insurance/government/financial/real estate/military/oil/industrial complex.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    2. Re:And what will it do... by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      when it detects you are drowsy? Shut the car off? Shock you? Pour you a cup of coffee?

      Zap your butt with an electric shock.

    3. Re:And what will it do... by jo_ham · · Score: 1

      Probably the same sorts of warnings the Lane Departure system gives, if you start to drift over the line.

      That's not really the hard part - the effectiveness of the detection is the tricky part.

    4. Re:And what will it do... by budgenator · · Score: 1

      Want to bet that the car that wouldn't start because it senses your too tired to drive, wouldn't call your wife to cancel your date-night after working a 70 hr week either.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  6. Finally! by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    Now all I need is one for my wife's pillow!!!!

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    1. Re:Finally! by hondo77 · · Score: 1

      You can use my pillow. It seems to keep her awake just fine. 8-P

      Sorry but I couldn't resist. I'll go away now.

      --
      I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
  7. lol by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

    Corrupted by the federal government for purposes the clearly defy the constitution in 3... 2... 1...

  8. just let google drive by russ1337 · · Score: 2

    how about putting the effort into autonomous vehicles....

    1. Re:just let google drive by petteyg359 · · Score: 1

      Google's already been there and done that. Just get the bastards who think they have a right to kill anyone else on the road and can't stand not being "in control" (with what little self-control they exhibit, the idea that they can effectively be in control of anything is laughable, and putting them at the controls of the kinetic weapons that are motorized vehicles is ludicrous) to kill themselves off...

  9. The technology comes from Neurosky, by Zerth · · Score: 2

    who is desperately trying to find a market for mediocre, overpriced EEG units, since the gamers didn't bite.

    1. Re: The technology comes from Neurosky, by subreality · · Score: 1

      To be honest, this is a good move on their part. Gaming requires fast, precise response, and their tech just can't hack it there; so the headsets were only useful for secondary functions. Other than being shiny, the tech wasn't enough better than a keyboard to justify the price.

      Detecting drowsy drivers is a *great* use of the tech. Here, you don't need fast response, so you can afford some time for noise filtering. And the signal you're looking for is much easier to spot: it's not little consciousness tweeks you've learned. Brainwaves when you're falling asleep are screaming obvious. You can probably pick them out with nothing more than an FFT. It's much easier than trying to image-process eye movements.

  10. Re:That's not fair by Hylandr · · Score: 1

    Add vampires and politicians to that list.

    - Dan.

    --
    ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
  11. Journey time by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    Sorry, an unlimited speed limit is not possible. You can't exceed the speed of light.

    However you can make the journey time as arbitrarily as short as you want which, in the end, is really what you care about.

  12. Bonus: free shrunken heads! by macraig · · Score: 2

    Perhaps it could also diagnose ADD, autism, BPD, schizophrenia, and approaching episodes of road rage? Think of the savings!

    1. Re:Bonus: free shrunken heads! by fluffy99 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it could also diagnose ADD, autism, BPD, schizophrenia, and approaching episodes of road rage? Think of the savings!

      And respond by triggering a hard right turn into the ditch? I'm not sure I want my car practicing eugenics.

    2. Re:Bonus: free shrunken heads! by macraig · · Score: 1

      Cars don't practice eugenics, people do!

  13. Personal responsibility? by king_grumpy · · Score: 1

    Whatever happened to taking responsibility for your own actions? We have reversing cameras in cars because people can't take responsibility for their kids and might run them over. We have playgrounds without any risky equipment like monkey bars because kids might get hurt and their parents would sue. Time to take a teaspoon of cement and harden up.

  14. Re:Actually a good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Tell that to the guy working double shifts. Of course that's whether or not it's really worth it. Should he be risking his life and those of others because working normal hours just doesn't pay?

    Then again, the medical industry occasionally expects doctors to pull those type of hours and is more than happy to put lives at risk in this regard. And then people are left wondering why malpractice insurance is so damn high... Clue much? Probably not.

    Strangely enough, the trucking industry says otherwise. Yet there are still truck drivers that manage to not get adequate rest.

  15. continuing the trend by nimbius · · Score: 1

    pioneered by Mercedes Benz in their most luxurious line of vehicles.

    Your average long-haul truck driver is unlikely to see this technology extended to the working class in his lifetime.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:continuing the trend by fridaynightsmoke · · Score: 1

      pioneered by Mercedes Benz in their most luxurious line of vehicles. Your average long-haul truck driver is unlikely to see this technology extended to the working class in his lifetime.

      Just like disc brakes, power windows, electronic stability control, airbags and a/c never made it from Mercedes to trucks? Oh wait, they did.

      --
      This is a substitute for a clever sig that fits within the maximum number of characters.
    2. Re:continuing the trend by RivenAleem · · Score: 1

      "Ahh I really love driving my Mercedes Benz. It has to be the most relaxing driving experience --" *FOGHORN BLARES*

  16. Wow, THAT's high-tech! by jabberw0k · · Score: 1

    Oh wait, for a moment I thought those were EG&G headsets.

  17. Re:Nope by X0563511 · · Score: 1

    Yea just what we need. Encouragement to not look around more.

    --
    For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
  18. Re:Actually a good idea by flaming+error · · Score: 1

    > you don't drive when you are so tired.
    That's obviously the best answer. But reality says sometimes you need to get somewhere by a certain time.

    I have a birth defect that results in sleep apnea, with the sad result that even in my "waking" hours I've nearly always been sleepy to some degree.

    I combat this with special medical equipment, drugs, and occasional shots of coffee. And it works pretty well.

    But I really really wish that I had a viable public transit system. Or that I could afford a taxi/chauffeur. Without those, I don't know any other way to get around than driving myself..

  19. Car by avikmajumder · · Score: 1

    It is a heavy duty car.

  20. Prior Art :-) by sparkyradar · · Score: 1

    Heck, I remember taking an Engineering Design class about 30yrs ago. where we explored several ideas to detect dozy drivers. Sensing brain activity (and I think we found ourselves zeroing in on alpha-wave activity) was one idea, and arguably the best idea we came up with. Even so, it wasn't ground-breaking 30yrs ago (although a good *implementation* may have been groundbreaking).

    (among other ideas: frequency and magnitude of driver-corrections; embedded steering-wheel sensors for pulse & blood-oxygen).

    Kudos to them if they can make it work.