China Removes Cyberwar Video, Denies Everything

jjp9999 writes "Anyone looking for the video clip showing the Chinese regime launching cyberattacks using script kiddie tactics was greeted with a message stating 'Error Page — This page does not exist anymore,' on the state-run TV website. The propaganda video, still available on YouTube, included a clip showing an unseen user launching a cyberattack against an Alabama-based website of the Falun Gong meditation practice. China's Defense Minister told the Washington Post via e-mail that the video was 'pure action of the producer,' adding that the 'Chinese military has never implemented any form of cyber attacks.' The statement is the common line given by the regime after they're tacked with launching a global cyberattack — including after GhostNet, Operation Aurora, Operation Night Dragon, and Operation Shady Rat were revealed."

Comments

Yeah right

[JonySuede]

Chinese military has never implemented any form of cyber attacks

But the Chinese equivalent of the NSA sure did....

Re:Yeah right

[Forty Two Tenfold]

"Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied." — Otto von Bismarck

Re:Yeah right

[GooberToo]

You're confusing an empowered minority who are frequently sociopaths with American culture. America has no such cultural norm. In fact, in American, the norm is exactly opposite of this. That doesn't mean in any way, it doesn't happen here.

Re:Yeah right

[garyebickford]

It used to be that the major part of the American system was based on a moral code. However ever since Dewey and some others, 'pragmatism' (which, as a philosophy, has been distorted and pruned to now merely mean "the end justifies the means") has become the accepted value system for public decisions. Unfortunately the direct outcome of that value system is that there are no moral absolutes. If you can get away with something and not get caught, then it's all good.

(Note - I am not saying that pragmatism as the philosophy of William James says that - only that the common usage of the term has come to mean that. However pragmatism as a philosophy appears to me to deny the possibility of any moral absolute. But that's a different discussion.)

Ugh, God, seriously China?

[dyingtolive]

Just man up and own it. For fuck's sake, it's just getting painful.

Re:Ugh, God, seriously China?

[geoffrobinson]

I didn't see the video of a federal employee with "push button to attack Iranian nuclear facilities" on the screen in the background.

Re:Ugh, God, seriously China?

[thelexx]

Nearly every word that comes out of Chinese officials' mouths is painful to listen to. If it served their purposes they would claim the sky is red, forbid anyone from discussing it, jail/torture/disappear those who dared to still say it was blue, and denounce other countries for meddling in their internal affairs by stating the obvious. And do it with a straight face and a clear conscience. If that government not fucking evil, I don't know what is and I'm sick of hearing their blatant bullshit and absolutist statements. They are simply a slightly more moderate and much larger version of North Korea, and without the cult of personality.

To be clear, I think the Chinese culture is rich and ancient, and that the common, thinking people there feel much the same when they witness their own government's bullshit. It's their political structure and those who populate it that need to die in a fucking fire.

Re:Ugh, God, seriously China?

[The Grim Reefer2]

To be clear, I think the Chinese culture is rich and ancient, and that the common, thinking people there feel much the same when they witness their own government's bullshit. It's their political structure and those who populate it that need to die in a fucking fire.

I believe that most of that statement is probably true for the majority of people in the world. I live in the US and know that I certainly feel that way about our gov't. Except for the ancient culture part anyhow.

I know many people from Iran, Cuba, Russia, China, etc. This seems to be a common feeling among most of the people that we are told are evil.

Re:Ugh, God, seriously China?

[Kreigaffe]

Honestly there really isn't any comparing the US and Chinese government.
I make no excuses for the US gov't, but the US gov't is the obnoxious, occasionally destructive frat boy to the Chinese gov't's sociopathic homicidal con-man.

Worst part is that kind of government is a part of chinese culture, too. that's sort of how they've run the show for most of their history. it's fucking weird.

Re:Ugh, God, seriously China?

[The Grim Reefer2]

True, but when I talk to the normal non-government person from China they don't feel the people of the US are out to get them or vice-verse. It truly amazes me how much of a divide there is between the people and the people who are supposed represent them.

Re:Ugh, God, seriously China?

[joggle]

There's no comparison between the US and Chinese governments. Heck, I know a girl whose family is well connected politically in China and even she doesn't want to deal with the Chinese government. It's just far too corrupt and everyone only cares about themselves. The government is completely opaque and it's ridiculously easy to embezzle public money due to the lack of accountability and openness. And that's at the national level, at the local level it's even worse, especially in the countryside.

Just for one specific example, a drunk guy ran over and killed a couple of women late at night. When the police showed up, he said he was the mayor's son so what were they going to do about it. Fortunately, someone got it on video and it caused the people to protest and force him to go to jail (and for his father to apologize). But that guy's attitude is pervasive in the Chinese government's upper levels, with political power tending to pass from one generation to the next and having the ability to do almost anything and get away with it.

Re:Ugh, God, seriously China?

[Nick_13ro]

Replace "script kiddie application" with "helicopter gunship" and "hack a Chinese university" with "annihilate an Iraqi vegetable market", and you have the ethical equivalency the OP was getting at.

So the chinese doing some computer hacking is the moral equivalent to the US murdering a bunch lot of Iraqis. Then I guess that would make the chinese massacring a bunch of tibetans the moral equivalent of the US nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Re:Ugh, God, seriously China?

[Anonymous Coward]

You hit upon something I'm still pondering, which is the close connection of this absurd 'deny everything' policy of the Chinese government and the culture. I know plenty of Chinese nationals(I work with them remotely every day) and on an individual and personal level, their actions mirror mine: no tolerance for bullshit, responsibility, integrity and genuine goodwill for other people. I love and respect each one of them. But somehow their minds almost categorically do mental back flips when things become abstracted out to the government, to the family, or to the nation. They become these xenophobic robots and their brains short circuit when they can't resolve the contradictions that condemn the hierarchy above them. It generates the kind of behavior that we are seeing now.

Personally, I find there is at least one good thing about it. It offers us a chance at reflection, to see how we behave similarly. Witnessing this sort of tribalism from the outside is a good lesson for us. Not just our government(which most everyone knows is fucked) but the US society itself.

Re:Ugh, God, seriously China?

[garyebickford]

Here's another: (really bad HTML layout, but hey). Here's The gist of the story.

In summary: It was around 9PM, and dark on Clear Lake in California. Bismarck Dinius and some friends were sitting on a sailboat, drifting with its running lights on. An off-duty deputy sheriff, Russell Perdock, admits to driving his 24 foot Baja 24 at 40 MPH in the dark (others say it was faster), and ran over the sailboat killing one of the people on board the sailboat.

The local DA charged Dinius with manslaughter, as he happened to be holding the tiller of the non-moving sailboat. The DA pushed this through to a trial, at which Dinius was finally acquitted. Defending himself cost Dinius all his savings, his job and (IIRC) his marriage - four years of no income and legal nightmares will do that.

Finally, last year (after four years!), Perdock was thrown off the force and the DA was voted out. Perdock, the deputy sheriff was never charged. But his insurance company did man up and contribute to the settlement to the estate of the person who was killed.

Re:Ugh, God, seriously China?

[Kreigaffe]

Same experience here. I've worked with / trained Chinese workers, I've had Chinese professors, I've known Chinese students. Good people. I can't say the same for most of the South Americans I've met, even -- that is, the Colombians and Brasilians I've met were, unfortunately, pretty good examples of how those countries wound up with the sorts of governments they have had and have currently.. but the Chinese folks just really.. I don't know. You're right. I can't reconcile the Chinese people I've met with the Chinese government.

Hell, I've worked with old Soviets who spoke well of Stalin, and even that after a time I could understand (even the comparison between Stalin and George Washington O_o). And then I train these Chinese workers, who are in the States, they're talking openly to all us Americans.. I don't understand how they could leave and go back home to make less per day than we were making per hour, to live in fenced corporate dormitories when we all jump in our cars and head home after our shift. But they did. I don't think any of them even thought about jumping ship and trying to stay here. I know I'd never agree but I at least think it's something I should be able to understand, but I can't.

I guess it really is just Chinatown, Jake.

We are at war with Eastasia

[elsurexiste]

We've always been at war with Eastasia.

Tiananmen Square

[malraid]

Reminds me of the Simpsons episode where they go to China, and in Tiananmen Square they have a plaque that says "On This Site in 1989, Nothing Happened"

Re:Great Firewall of china

[InsaneProcessor]

I suggested a total blockade of traffic from China years ago. We do not have any needs of them accessing our internet.

Re:who cares.

[Anonymous Coward]

The video ran on Chinese STATE-RUN television. That means that some hack in the massive Chinese censorship bureaucracy vetted this video and decided to show it to the Proletariat anyway. This entire summary is about how the Chinese pulled it from their STATE-RUN website and put up a message saying, "What? Who? Us? What video?" If this were just some random thing uploaded by Falun Gong supporters then your argument would hold water. Instead it's something that China ran on their-- let me say it again-- STATE-RUN television news, and Falun Gong supporters saw it and reuploaded it to the wider web to say, Ha ha, look how stupid China is.

Imagine the Tea Party creates a relatively boring propaganda video about government spending, but in the background for 3 seconds of one shot you can see Michelle Bachmann snorting cocaine. Someone at Huffington Post catches this, copies the video, and uploads it to their website saying, "Wow, busted!" The Tea Party turn around and delete the video from their website and claim it was never there, and then you come along on Slashdot and claim the whole thing was a HuffPo propaganda hit piece and that they orchestrated the whole thing.

In short, the Chinese Politburo would like to send you their sincerest thanks for backing up the party line.

"I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

[NicknamesAreStupid]

"There was no cover-up."
"There is definitive proof that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction."
"We do not torture."
"They started it."
Bald-faced lies, the lingua franca of government.

Re:who cares.

[Anonymous Coward]

and once again, lets make this perfectly clear: the video footage in question was provided by a pro-falun gong website, showing depictions of attacks against falun gong sites.

No, you are wrong. Either you didn't read the article, didn't understand the article, or are deliberately spreading misinformation.

1.) The full video was provided by cntv.cn, which is the video archive of the state-controlled China Central Television network (originally at http://military.cntv.cn/program/jskj/20110717/100139.shtml )
2.) The gleeful commentary about the slip-up in the content of the video was provided a pro Falun Gong website.
3.) Even the Chinese government did not blame Falun Gong for the video, but is blaming its own producer.

tl;dr: the video footage in question was provided by a Chinese state-controlled website

Not surprising...

[MaWeiTao]

There was an sometimes amusing, usually frustrating, that seems to be somewhat unique to Chinese politicians. They'll publicly make baldfaced lies. There will be overwhelming evidence and they'll still blatantly deny it. Our politicians lie like hell, but they're more tactful about it. Once the secret is out they'll do a little tap dance to avoid actually addressing the issue. But not there, they'll just keep lying about it until everyone forgets about it, they're forced to resign or they end up in jail.

So it's not surprising in the least that they're denying this video. And the best part is that they'll deny these attacks and then gloat about it all behind our backs.

Re:Not surprising...

[TheSpoom]

The difference is that in China, if you dare to actually say that they're lying, you're liable to get reeducated, house-arrested, arrested, or just plain old shot.

Re:Just man up and own it.

[dyingtolive]

I like to think it's more like the refusal would be equivalent to the US insisting that they DIDN'T invade the Middle East, and that it was all just "Anti-US" propaganda and lies. I don't care what China's reasons are. The fact that they got getting caught doing it but are schizophrenically denying it is the part that bothers me.

nothing to own up to

[Lead Butthead]

This is a country that has a history of pointing at a deer and call it a horse, or more recently calling Minnie Mouse a "cat with large ears." So why is this a surprise?

Chinese speaker here

[poity]

The gist of the 10 minutes:

1. Cyber warfare is an emerging worldwide threat
2. Viruses pose the largest current threat, Morris worm shown as example
2. Many countries in the world are developing their cyber warfare capabilities
3. Chinese cyber defenses are weak and ill-prepared compared to most of these countries
4. The US integrated a cyber warfare department into its air force in 2006, made up of computer experts and hackers
5. The US has been using its world-leading cyber security abilities to its advantage in its middle east wars
6. The US often conducts cyber warfare exercises to improve its readiness
7. British MoD has been developing cyber weapons in preparation for possible future engagements
8. Iran, India, Israel, South Korea have already established internet army (cyber warfare departments)
9. Japan this year just established it's own "cyber self-defense group"
10. Chinese internet has experienced significant development, but is still weak in cyber defense compared to other countries
11. Because a cyber war has no front lines or depth of terrain, a proper cyber defense must integrate both military and civilian assets
12. Cyber defense and offense are two sides of the same coin, and while one may be prioritized above the other at different times, their mutual support is always fluid and dynamic
13. Large scale cyber warfare may be the future of modern warfare

Re:Chinese speaker here

[poity]

Also, during the specific part where it shows the "hacking GUI"

[previous segment explains what trojans and backdoors are and how they function]
Narrator: There are many ways to carry out a cyber attack -- there are "hard" methods and "soft" methods.
General explains: Soft methods include logic bombs and email obstruction, and other common methods of internet damage. (clip shows the "hacking GUI" with the ip address we're all worked up about) Hard methods are those that damage or destroy an enemy's internet hardware, such as EMP bombs (clip shows US bombs and fighters firing missiles)

Re:who cares.

[ThatsNotPudding]

The video ran on Chinese STATE-RUN television. That means that some hack in the massive Chinese censorship bureaucracy vetted this video and decided to show it to the Proletariat anyway.

And that hacks' kidneys, liver, and lungs are now available for transplant.

Re:Just man up and own it.

[Solandri]

The fact that they got getting caught doing it but are schizophrenically denying it is the part that bothers me.

We're not the intended target of the lie. To China, the West is hostile to them. We already have a crappy opinion of their government, and they couldn't care less if our opinion got any worse.

The lie is for the Chinese people. If they can fool the Chinese people into believing this never happened, that helps them stay in power that much longer. In fact, if they can convince the Chinese people that this was all a lie made up by the West (and Falun Gong), it's a net positive for them. This is the kind of BS you can successfully pull off if there isn't a free press.

Re:who cares.

[joggle]

I watched the original on cntv.cn yesterday before they took it down. I'm not exactly sure how Falun Gong was able to hack cntv.cn.