Environmental Enforcement Agents Targeting Guitars

tetrahedrassface writes "According to the Wall Street Journal, Federal agents again raided guitar maker Gibson this past week, seizing several pallets of wood and computer documents. At the heart of the issue is the wood that is being used in guitars and whether or not it comes from sustainable sources. The company insists it is being harassed and made to 'cry uncle' to the government's enforcement laws. The article notes that exotic fret and tone woods are protected in order to prevent the equivalent of 'blood diamond like trade,' but the ramifications now extend to guitar owners. If you play a vintage guitar, or a hand-built guitar made of old stock woods that were legally obtained years ago, you better not fly with it. John Thomas, a law professor at Quinnipiac University and a blues and ragtime guitarist, says, 'there's a lot of anxiety, and it's well justified.' Once upon a time, he would have taken one of his vintage guitars on his travels. Now, 'I don't go out of the country with a wooden guitar.'"

Comments

It's about time

[Nerdfest]

You know, now that the government has dealt with all of the environmental problems that are of greater scale and importance.

Re:It's about time

[MightyMartian]

They sure are in Sweden!

Re:It's about time

[MozeeToby]

I'd miss it. For every dollar that the EPA spends on stuff like this, or even on less frivolous but still apparently controversial things like protected rivers from over use, they spend dozens on things like keeping factories and power plants in check. Lets not forget what things were like before the EPA. CO2 and global warming would be the least of our problems without someone with the authority to prevent outright abuse of the ecosystem.

Re:It's about time

[Rob the Bold]

It's about time the EPA had its funding cut. There's nine billion that few would miss.

Why not cut the Department of Defense or the the FAA instead? I suggest this because they have just as much to do with the Fish and Wildlife Service as the EPA.

In case I am being too subtle, the FWS is not part of the EPA. In fact the service predates the EPA by about 100 years.

Re:It's about time

[INT_QRK]

As the number of laws and regulations continue to grow exponentially, at some point we will all become violators of something. When we reach that critical mass it will become impossible to enforce everything without bringing society to a standstill. At that point, government authorities will be compelled to focus on deciding what to enforce and when, based primarily on perceived need to reign in those "loose cannons" who either make too much of a fuss, fail to tow the line, or beg to be made an example. If this seems just a tad paranoid, maybe it just because I'm feeling a little stabby today. No worries.

Re:It's about time

[Clock Nova]

". . . but since they donate to the Democratic party they remain unraided."

There. Fixed that for you.

LAND OF THE FREE?

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Innocent until proven guilty?
Burden of evidence on the accuser?

Hope you enjoyed the "War on Drugs". Seizure logic is now your new normal.

Re:LAND OF THE FREE?

[RKThoadan]

I believe the point is that it should be the states responsibility to prove that the guitar is made with illegally harvested wood, not my responsibility to prove that it isn't. For the most part, customs/immigration has never really operated on any kind of presumption of innocence and the current climate isn't likely to make that any better.

Re:LAND OF THE FREE?

[tonywong]

It is even more screwed up than what the summary implies.

This isn't even a compliance issue. The U.S. government objects to the importation of unfinished wood (raw imports), while Gibson has imported finished wood from India. However, the U.S. contends that the wood is not finished ENOUGH, although the Indian government is quite satisfied with the paperwork on their end (no objection and considers the wood properly finished).

So although all the paperwork is technically in order, the US government is on a massive fishing expedition to force Gibson into 'compliance' even though they haven't broken any laws.
Indian article here:
http://m.timesofindia.com/PDATOI/articleshow/9756435.cms

This reminds me of the way the government has sent those mortgage liars to jail:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/26/business/26nocera.html

Pop the little guys because all the big fish are too hard to catch. Government at work for you.

Gibson Forums

[cultiv8]

Here's the conversation on the Gibson forums if anyone is interested...

Re:Gibson Forums

[EvilAlphonso]

Not mentioned on the forums:

• The wood was 10mm boards declared as 6mm veneer to clear customs in the US. Veneer is peeled with minimal waste, boards are sawed with large waste (kerf + parts of the trunks with not enough material for full boards). 6mm veneer of the species in question is legal to import, 10mm boards aren't due to Lacey act.
• The export declaration for Indian customs stated that the shipment was finished parts of musical instruments instead of raw material. The finished parts are perfectly legal to ship, the raw material in the form of 10mm boards isn't (anything above 6mm veneer is illegal to export).
• Gibson tried to conceal both the destination and the source of the shipment by going through several several middlemen (one AG in Germany, one company in California, one person in Tennessee).
• The shipment was caught by customs when entering the US, then released to find out who was the final consignee of the wood.

For more info: The Affidavit (PDF warning).

Re:Big Deal over nothing.

[imric]

Yup - because all transactions are reversible.

Everything is a luxury.

All markets are infinite.

Regulations are never ever ever corrections to the market. People are not part of the market.

This is why environmentalism has a bad name

[Baloroth]

Seriously, this is absolutely ridiculous. Arresting someone, fining them, and taking their guitar because they can't trace every last component it's made of? Or fining someone $17,000 with clearly grandfather ivory keys (which everyone acknowledges are legitimate to own) simply because his paperwork was a little out of order? FFS, we wonder why our world is so fucked up when artists (some actually talented people) are forced to put up with shit like that. Hell, I bet taking a Stradivarius out of the country would probably get it "seized" and a major fine levied on you, simply because it would be absolutely impossible to trace all its components.

All this in the name of "environmentalism." Why the hell is a guitar or antique musical instrument even considered a piece of "flora or fauna" anyways? Are we gonna have to register cotton shirts next, to make sure slavery wasn't involved in the manufacture? As a bit of a musician myself (I play violin as a hobby), these sorts of things really piss me off. Laws shouldn't be created to force people to prove the legality of what they are carrying. Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"? In this case, it looks like you need paperwork proving you're innocence or you are automatically guilty. Also, I don't think the wood used in guitars is a major contributor to deforestation. In fact, I think that ranks right down there as the least possible thing they could worry about. What's next, making sure pipes are made of sustainable sources of wood?

Sure, I know poaching of elephants is a major problem. This sort of BS isn't helping the cause any though.

Re:This is why environmentalism has a bad name

[0123456]

FFS, we wonder why our world is so fucked up when artists (some actually talented people) are forced to put up with shit like that.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't many of the most famous musical 'artists' been demanding that we must 'do something' for the environment for decades now?

Well, now we're doing something, and they should be happy.

Re:This is why environmentalism has a bad name

[Anonymous Coward]

Or fining someone $17,000 with clearly grandfather ivory keys (which everyone acknowledges are legitimate to own) simply because his paperwork was a little out of order?

Saying that the guy had his paperwork "a little out of order" is disingenuous. The person in question was trying to import 11 pianos, and had declared that there was no Ivory on them. However, that was only true because he had removed the Ivory keys and hidden them in his luggage, where they were uncovered by customs inspectors. And not only that, his company had asked officials about the importation requirements prior to this, so he clearly knew what he was doing, and was caught red-handed.

http://www.justice.gov/usao/gan/press/2011/03-09-11.html

Dear Music Industry

[anlprb]

It seems as if for years, you have been using the BanHammer of the Government to force others to comply with your agenda of increased control and profits. Now, that you have gotten what you asked for, why are you unhappy? The environmentalists are getting their agenda pushed by the government, just like yours. Why on Earth would you be surprised. Ohh that's right, you artsy types haven't heard of the law of unintended consequences. Congratulations, welcome to the club of people who realize Government interference in everything isn't a good thing. I hope you enjoy getting what you asked for.

Sincerely,
Everyone else.

Wait a minute....

[Nidi62]

So, are you telling me it's now easier to fly with a firearm than it is with an acoustic guitar?

The Economic Stupidity of (Some) Environmentalists

[geoffrobinson]

Let's ignore for a second that the government cares about how an Indian government interprets and Indian law for an American domestic manufacturer. Here's the utter stupidity...

If you have something like ivory or some rare wood, if you make the value of it next to nothing, legitimate businesses will have no incentive to have that resource conserved.

Let's say you are in some rainforest and you have this really rare tree that is valuable for its wood. If legitimate businesses can use it and it has value, you can find a way to harvest it and make sure more grows. If it has no value, you plow the thing over and grow some crops.

The same goes for different animal species as well.

Do you think elephants will stop being hunted because of ivory bans? If you allow a certain percentage of elephants to be culled, I'm pretty sure a group of people will make sure there are plenty of elephants.

Re:I love hearing right-wingers complain about EPA

[0123456]

Nixon certainly was a right-winger. He may not have been a fascist like most of the current right-wingers, but he was definitely right-wing.

Fascists were left-wing. And in what universe are price and wage controls now 'right wing' policies? If Obama was proposing them people would be calling him a commy.

Not exactly...

[joeyblades]

The feds claim against Gibson is not that they are using wood from non sustainable sources, as stated above. Gibson has clear documentation showing that it is.The feds maintain that the issue is that the wood was not "finished" by Indian workers, as (possibly) required by Indian law.

Incidentally, the Indian government is not involved.

Re:Please go after Gibson, not my Gibson

[FatLittleMonkey]

I think most sensible people would agree that Gibson should have to prove the rare wood used in their factory was legally obtained.

No, people should expect the accuser to prove their accusation, not the defendant.

Re:Musicians

[jdgeorge]

This article is fear-mongering. Gibson is suspected of importing illegal goods (in this case, ebony, if the article is to be believed). The CEO of Gibson says they didn't do anything wrong. There is an investigation.

Note: There was never a musician stopped by US customs for travelling with an "illegal" instrument.

Furthermore, the article doesn't give even a moment's thought to why the wood Gibson is accused of using is illegal to import, and why the government agency is required to investigate.

There is no threat to musicians. End of story.

Asset forfeiture

[bradley13]

Forget it - this is asset forfeiture. The feds already raided Gibson once, back in 2009. They took a lot of ebony, but never filed charges. Gibson is still fighting the asset forfeiture case, and the burden of proof is exactly wrong: Gibson must prove their innocence of any wrong-doing. The feds want to keep the stuff; it would be auctioned off, and they would get to keep the proceeds. One of the theories explaining this second raid is that the feds are pissed that Gibson hasn't just rolled over on the first case.

Asset forfeiture is perverse: you aren't charged with anything at all - your *property* is. The Gibson case is entitled "United States of America v. Ebony Wood in Various Forms". There is no presumption of innocence, because your property isn't a person, and anyway isn't being charged with a crime. The fact that this is naked theft is apparently beside the point - it is a very lucrative racket for law enforcement agencies at all levels.

Some things to consider

[EmagGeek]

CF Martin IV, a well-known contributor to Obama and the DNC, also makes guitars from Indian Rosewood, and is one of Gibson's main competitors in the acoustic guitar space.

The CEO of Gibson is a vocal republican running a non-union shop.

Gibson is being targeted. CF Martin is not.

You do the math.

Re:Guilty until proven innocent

[MinistryOfTruthiness]

Lagging behind? The issue here is a law that's two years old, stating that importers must abide by all of the laws of the country from which they are sourcing the materials. Sounds like a good idea on the face of it, but unfortunately, it's very much open to interpretation.

There are several problems here:

1. The government has confiscated over $1M of materials, *and not given a reason for it*
2. The government did the same thing two years ago re: Madagascar woods, and the trial is still dragging on due to government dragging its feet, missing deadlines, requesting stays, etc.
3. The government has claimed that *any* guitar sold by Gibson can be construed as obstruction of justice, and that this can be applied to the BUYER and the RETAILER. So, in other words, they've threatened criminal charges against anyone who buys a Gibson guitar. Because they have not stated a specific infraction, Gibson does not know which guitars this may apply to, and so must assume *all* of them.
4. Gibson assumes that this has to do with an Indian law stating that if any finishing work is done in India, that ALL finishing work must be done in India. Gibson buys half-finished fingerboard blanks from their Indian suppliers, but has all of the proper sign-offs and paperwork to show that this was approved by the government.
5. The government raided a factory using fully-armed SWAT team. This alone is a disturbing trend that must be stopped. They weren't raiding a pot house or a meth lab, they're raiding a guitar factory. Suits, pens and clipboards were much more appropriate than kevlar and automatic weapons.

Here's a video of the CEO talking about the raid. It's a bit long, but the guy seems genuinely baffled as to what could be the cause of the raid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_-taqM5Sk0

Re:Musicians

[greg1104]

I'd suggest Importing, Exporting or Travelling with Musical Instruments for more more information about the restrictions that impact traveling musicians. While it's a bit UK centric, the CITES rules apply here too. As for the idea that the concerns here are just fear-mongering, try taking an older instrument made with ivory somewhere and watch how that turns out, as the most extreme example. Ebony isn't on the CITES list, but there's plenty of other materials appearing in many vintage guitars that are.

Re:I love hearing right-wingers complain about EPA

[halivar]

Price and wage controls, economic planning, progressive taxation, ceding individual property rights to the central government, no right to bear arms, comprehensive social welfare.

These some of the original cornerstones of fascist ideology. I fail to see how they square with the American right-wing (note that militarism, nationalism and etho-centrism, the other pillars of fascism, plague communist and socialist countries, also). In any event, early fascists called themselves both anti-marxist, anti-capitalist, and anti-clerical. That claim seems accurate; making most modern uses of "fascist" as an epithet ridiculous.

Re:Musicians

[BlueStrat]

The wood isn't illegal. India is protesting because they insist that the wood be processesed, in India, by Indian workers, before Gibson gets it. The state department is enforcing India's claim.

This isn't a matter of ecology, it's just business as usual.

I'm a semi-pro guitarist/musician. This stuff impacts me directly.

I actually called the Indian Embassy. They say they did not file any complaints to anyone about the rosewood, and do not support the raid on Gibson.

Further, the rosewood in question *is* finished into pre-cut & polished fingerboard slabs, was inspected & OK'd for export by Indian authorities, and for import by US Customs (Gibson ain't sneaking this stuff into the country in jungle-built subs, after all, like cocaine!).

AFAICT, Gibson is also the only major US guitar maker that's in a "right-to-work" state. Gibson has also contributed to Republican campaigns. All major US guitar makers that I know of use Indian rosewood and other CITES regulated materials, yet Gibson is the only maker that's been raided (twice since '09!) and had guitars and wood seized.

Gibson is in trouble because the DOJ, in it's infinite wisdom, thinks that the finished fretboard pieces they got from India, although they were deemed OK for export by India and OK'd for import by US Customs aren't, in the F&W's/DOJ's opinion, "finished enough" according to the *F&W'sDOJ's interpretation* of Indian export laws (NOT India's interpretation of THEIR OWN LAW!!...they filed no complaint and don't support the F&W's/DOJ's actions)...and therefor in violation of the amended-in-2008 Lacey Act despite all statements and evidence to the contrary, even from India.

The first raid on Gibson in '09, as far as I can determine, was based upon statements made by either F&W and/or the DOJ to a judge, asserting that they believed some portion/part of the chain-of-custody paperwork was forged, in order to obtain a warrant to raid & search Gibson facilities. So far, NO CHARGES have been filed regarding the '09 raid & seizure, and the DOJ has had the judge delay indefinitely any further court proceedings, leaving some $500K-$1M in guitars & materials seized from Gibson in limbo.

Not necessarily that *Gibson* forged, had forged, or knew of any forging of any documents (could have been any of the suppliers/warehousers/transporters in the chain), but according to the letter of the amended portion of the Lacey Act, *who* forged them, why, or who had knowledge of any irregularity was immaterial, and the Act as written didn't protect Gibson (or any other US company or individual) for criminal or civil liability for acts outside their knowledge or control...called "strict liability"...which was one of the things those opposed to passage of the amendment to the Lacey Act were against due to it's unfairness.

Here's just one example of Lacey Act injustice that put an innocent man in jail for 8 years!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHvJ6ld_Mic

Here's a piece on the difficulties that individual musicians now face in traveling with guitars and other wood instruments because of CITES: http://www.fretboardjournal.com/features/magazine/guitar-lover%E2%80%99s-guide-cites-conservation-treaty

Here's a couple of links to Gibson regarding the raids:

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/News/ceo-outrage-0826-2011/

http://www.gibson.com/en-us/Lifestyle/News/gibson-0825-2011/

I'm not against conservation at all. However, the jack-booted ham-handedness with which the laws are written, interpreted, and enforced should be an outrage to anyone.

Strat

Happened to surfboard manufacturers 5 years ago

[sdguero]

Clark Foam, which made 85% of the foam blanks for all surfboards closed shop after years of pressure from the EPA and repeated raids/fines by CA and federal authorities. It was big deal at the time (2005):
http://www.surfermag.com/features/clarkfoam/

Back in 2005, the average price for a new surfboard jumped about 50% (~$400 to ~$600 a board) and that price hasn't come down on anything but generic shapes (i.e. Costco surfboards) since. Now our surfboard blanks are lower quality, come from companies in China, who have no qualms about dumping toxic chemicals into the environment, and they cost about the same because there is no competition other than a few colluding companies. A LOT of independent American surfboard shapers (aka small business owners) have been pushed out because they can't get blanks reliably in small numbers like they could directly from Clark in the past.

As I recall, when Clark shutdown he basically said he'd been dealing with these people (government authorities) for 30 years and couldn't continue to carry this industry on his shoulders or his bank account anymore. The US economy will suffer, likely forever, and we will lose art and innovation, but it wasn't his burden to carry alone. And he walked away. Probably surfing on a remote island paradise somewhere...

Re:Musicians

[Lil'wombat]

Cthulhu in 2012. Why settle for the lesser evil?